In a Double Gut Punch, the Angels Lose Ohtani’s Pitching and Trout’s Hitting

Orlando Ramirez-USA TODAY Sports

The news last night out of Anaheim landed like a punch to the gut of every reasonable baseball fan: Shohei Ohtani has a torn ulnar collateral ligament and at the very least is done pitching for the season, thus ending perhaps the greatest campaign we’ve ever seen. And in a double whammy that shouldn’t be dismissed, the team announced that Mike Trout is heading back to the injured list after playing just one game following a seven-week absence due to a fractured left hamate that required surgery.

Set aside the money for a moment; obviously this carries ramifications for Ohtani’s upcoming payday, which I’ll get to below. And forget the playoffs. The Angels went all-in in advance of the August 1 trade deadline but have gone an unfathomable 5-16 this month, plummeting out of the AL Wild Card race like an anvil without a parachute. Their Playoff Odds were already down to 0.3% before they were swept by the Reds in a bleak doubleheader on Wednesday. Even if Ohtani and Trout had both played at their peaks over the season’s final 34 games, the team’s fate was sealed.

No, what really sucks is the prospect that one of the greatest, most transcendent runs in sports history is over, or at the very least suspended. Ohtani is currently hitting .304/.405/.664 with the major league lead in slugging, homers (44), and wRC+ (181) while also pitching to a 3.14 ERA and 4.01 FIP with a 31.5% strikeout rate. From 2021-23, he’s hit .277/.376/.586 for a 157 wRC+ with 124 homers while taking the ball roughly every sixth day and pitching to a 2.84 ERA and 3.24 FIP. Babe Ruth didn’t even try to mix pitching and hitting for that long or to that degree, and with apologies to Bullet Rogan, who did it in the Negro Leagues, nobody at the highest level of integrated baseball has ever done what Ohtani has done. Wins Above Replacement doesn’t capture the value he generates (at least in theory) by saving the Angels a roster spot, but by our version of the metric, he’s been worth 26.2 WAR over the past three seasons (15.2 offense, 11.0 pitching), including a career-high 9.5 last year and 8.6 so far this year. By Baseball Reference’s version, he’s been worth 28.2 WAR (14.0 offense, 14.0 pitching), with 9.6 in each of the past two seasons. By either reckoning, you can find higher WAR totals over a three-year span, but nobody has done it this way. He is a unicorn, one who is likely to be crowned AL MVP for the second year out of three.

That said, storm clouds had circled over Ohtani’s pitching for the past two months, a reminder of both the precariousness and the remarkable nature of his ongoing balancing act between pitching and hitting. Over a stretch of seven starts from the second half of May through all of June, he allowed more than three runs just once, but he left his June 27 start against the White Sox — a dominant one, with 10 strikeouts and one run allowed in 6.1 innings — due to a cracked nail on his right middle finger. Despite continued problems with the finger including a blister, he made each of his next three starts, one with a few extra days of rest due to the All-Star break, but allowed 15 runs (five in each) over 17.1 innings.

Then, a day after the then-surging Angels leaked the news that they were taking him off the trade market, Ohtani put together an absolutely magical pair of performances in a June 27 doubleheader sweep of the Tigers. He threw a one-hit shutout with eight strikeouts and a season-high 111 pitches in the opener, then went 2-for-3 with a pair of homers in the nightcap before leaving the game due to cramping.

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Ohtani then left his August 3 start after four shutout innings against the Mariners due to cramping in his right middle finger and his pitching hand; even so, he homered later in the game. He threw six innings and allowed only one unearned run on August 9 against the Giants, but four days later, the team announced he would skip his next start due to arm fatigue. He didn’t start again until the opener of a doubleheader against the Reds on Wednesday, but after clouting a two-run homer in the bottom of the first inning, he faced just two batters in the second before leaving again due to what the Angels PR account termed arm fatigue.

Ohtani reportedly underwent the MRI that revealed the tear between the games of the doubleheader. Remarkably, he was back in the lineup for the nightcap anyway, and laced a fifth-inning double, after which he enjoyed a light-hearted moment with Elly De La Cruz at second base, with the rookie phenom playfully poking the two-way superstar and asking, “Are you real?”

The Angels being the Angels, they lost both games and then general manager Perry Minasian delivered the bad news, telling reporters, “We did imaging between games and he does have a tear, and he won’t pitch the rest of the year… We’re going to get a second opinion and go from there. It’s basically day to day. Obviously, he hit. But that’s where we’re at.”

It’s tempting to connect the dots between Ohtani’s intermittent availability since the start of July and his subsequent injury. It’s not entirely implausible that there was some effect if he was overexerting himself or otherwise altering his mechanics to compensate for his troubles. But it’s not as though anyone saw the pitcher’s mechanics as compromised, and according to Minasian, Ohtani never spoke of any elbow issues until Wednesday. “He never complained about anything; he just had cramps and was dehydrated,” said the GM. “But today was the day he came out of the game and said he had some pain in the elbow area. Today was the first day we’d heard of it.”

The severity of Ohtani’s tear is unknown at this writing; if it’s small, he may receive injections of platelet-rich plasma and stem cells to promote healing, though that remedy generally only kicks the can down the road as far as surgery goes, particularly for a pitcher whose fastball pushes triple digits. You don’t even need to ask Jacob deGrom about how that went, you can ask Ohtani himself. He first sprained his UCL in June of his 2018 rookie campaign, then after nearly three months of hitting but not pitching returned to the mound and lasted just 2.1 innings before departing. Soon afterwards, doctors recommended that he undergo Tommy John surgery, which he did in October 2018… after posting a 169 wRC+ with seven homers in 97 plate appearances as a DH in September.

In all likelihood, a second Tommy John surgery is on the table for Ohtani, which at the very least would cost him the 2024 season as a pitcher but give him ample time to prepare for a ’25 return to the mound, given the general trend of allowing longer recovery times for pitchers receiving their second TJS. Bryce Harper recently set a new standard for nonpitchers by returning to the field 160 days after undergoing TJS. In a 2018 study I did on infielders who had received the procedure on their throwing arms, 10 months was the average, but eight or nine wasn’t uncommon; if Ohtani had the surgery this week, a best-case scenario would place his hitter-only return in May or June of next season.

The elephant in the room is which team will be overseeing Ohtani’s rehabilitation, as he is about to reach the most anticipated free agency since that of Alex Rodriguez nearly a quarter-century ago. Prior to the injury, Ohtani was poised to set all kinds of records for single-year salary, average annual salary, and total contract value as some of the game’s biggest-spending teams vied for his services.

As for that contract, you’re excused if you want to jump off the ride here. The hit in the unicorn’s stock price isn’t the big news. At best we’re entering into an area where we must fully acknowledge the limitations of our WAR-and-dollars projection models, which generally start to break down at the top end of the pay scale, though this can cut in both directions. Nobody’s been paid more than the $43.3 million per year Max Scherzer and Justin Verlander are currently making, which at the typical $8-million-per-win valuation amounts to a projection of 5.4 WAR, yet our preseason ZiPS projections forecast 14 players to match or exceed that level. On the other hand, the Mets and the teams of Aaron Judge, Manny Machado, and Trout himself — to use just a few examples — are paying premiums on their superstars that go well beyond the typical valuations because of the ancillary benefits of employing them.

With those caveats in mind, as well as the fact that we’re in the realm of speculation when it comes to the interplay between Ohtani’s pitching, hitting and rehabilitation, the hit to his potential contract could be massive. Via Dan Szymborski, here’s his pre-injury ZiPS projection as a hitter:

ZiPS Projection – Shohei Ohtani (DH)
Year BA OBP SLG AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB OPS+ DR WAR
2024 .270 .372 .554 534 94 144 27 7 37 105 85 150 19 151 0 4.8
2025 .266 .371 .537 533 92 142 27 6 35 101 86 146 16 146 0 4.5
2026 .265 .369 .529 533 91 141 27 6 34 97 86 145 15 143 0 4.3
2027 .257 .361 .505 517 85 133 25 5 31 90 82 141 12 135 0 3.5
2028 .247 .352 .475 493 77 122 23 4 27 81 78 135 10 125 0 2.7
2029 .240 .345 .448 462 69 111 21 3 23 71 72 129 8 116 0 2.0
2030 .238 .341 .438 425 62 101 19 3 20 64 65 119 7 113 0 1.6
2031 .240 .343 .441 383 55 92 17 3 18 56 58 109 5 114 0 1.5
2032 .234 .336 .419 384 52 90 17 3 16 54 57 110 5 107 0 1.1
2033 .230 .330 .408 343 45 79 15 2 14 46 50 99 4 102 0 0.8

The ZiPS contract suggestion for that 26.8-WAR projection is $241 million over 10 years — and that’s without him doing anything but DHing. Projecting a three-month absence at the start of next season as he recovers from surgery, which has a ripple effect on his expected availability downstream, yields this:

ZiPS Projection – Shohei Ohtani (2nd TJ Surgery)
Year BA OBP SLG AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB OPS+ DR WAR
2024 .260 .367 .552 264 48 69 13 4 19 49 44 81 10 148 0 2.0
2025 .257 .365 .537 518 92 133 25 6 36 93 86 157 17 144 0 4.2
2026 .252 .360 .517 503 88 127 24 5 33 87 83 151 15 138 0 3.6
2027 .247 .355 .492 482 81 119 23 4 29 79 79 145 13 130 0 3.0
2028 .239 .346 .467 456 73 109 21 4 25 70 73 137 11 121 0 2.3
2029 .232 .339 .441 422 64 98 19 3 21 61 66 129 9 113 0 1.5
2030 .231 .336 .433 381 56 88 17 3 18 53 59 117 7 110 0 1.2
2031 .227 .331 .418 335 48 76 15 2 15 45 51 104 6 105 0 0.8
2032 .222 .326 .406 325 45 72 14 2 14 42 49 102 5 100 0 0.6
2033 .218 .323 .391 261 34 57 11 2 10 33 39 83 3 96 0 0.3

That comes to 19.5 WAR and a projected contract of 10 years and $175 million, a drop of $66 million, or one (1) 2023 Orioles Payroll. On the pitching side, here’s Ohani pre-injury:

ZiPS Projection – Shohei Ohtani
Year W L ERA G GS IP H ER HR BB SO ERA+ WAR
2024 12 7 3.21 28 28 165.7 127 59 20 56 201 135 4.0
2025 11 8 3.27 27 27 159.7 126 58 20 53 189 132 3.7
2026 11 7 3.34 26 26 156.3 127 58 20 51 180 129 3.5
2027 10 8 3.48 26 26 150.0 126 58 20 48 168 124 3.2
2028 10 7 3.63 26 26 146.3 127 59 20 47 157 119 2.9
2029 9 8 3.83 24 24 138.7 126 59 21 45 144 113 2.5
2030 8 7 3.96 22 22 125.0 116 55 19 43 127 109 2.1
2031 7 7 4.15 20 20 112.7 107 52 18 41 112 104 1.7
2032 6 6 4.36 18 18 99.0 98 48 17 38 96 99 1.3
2033 5 7 4.58 17 17 94.3 95 48 17 39 89 94 1.0

That’s a projection for 25.9 WAR, and a valuation of $219 million over 10 years for his pitching. Scrub next year, and add the ripple effects while assuming that yes, he can come back from a second TJ and still pitch well enough to justify the effort, and this is what you get:

ZiPS Projection – Shohei Ohtani (2nd TJ Surgery)
Year W L ERA G GS IP H ER HR BB SO ERA+ WAR
2024 0 0 0.00 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0 0 0.0
2025 6 5 3.70 16 16 90.0 80 37 12 34 90 117 1.7
2026 6 6 3.86 18 18 100.3 91 43 13 38 97 112 1.8
2027 6 6 3.91 18 18 101.3 94 44 14 40 96 111 1.7
2028 6 6 4.10 18 18 101.0 96 46 14 41 93 105 1.5
2029 6 6 4.25 18 18 97.3 96 46 15 41 87 102 1.3
2030 5 7 4.58 18 18 94.3 96 48 15 43 82 94 1.0
2031 4 6 4.77 15 15 77.3 81 41 13 38 66 91 0.7
2032 3 5 4.97 13 13 63.3 68 35 11 33 53 87 0.4
2033 2 5 5.29 11 11 51.0 57 30 10 29 42 82 0.2
2034 2 3 5.63 9 9 40.0 46 25 8 24 32 77 0.0

That’s 10.3 WAR and a valuation of $72 million over 10 years, a difference of $147 million, a bit less than the current Mariners payroll. All told, if we take the model at face value while keeping the speculation to a minimum, that’s a drop in projected contract value from $460 million to $247 million, though again, the error bars here are sizable.

Unless we’re talking about the size of the charitable foundation that he leaves behind, I don’t think Ohtani is ever going to worry about money, and even after walking through this exercise for illustrative purposes, I don’t think we should, either. At the same time, it’s not fair to dismiss the impact of Ohtani’s standard-setting salary on future waves of free agents, particularly as owners continue to do their best to put drags on payroll. Still to these eyes, the thing to bemoan is the sidelining of the most incredible baseball talent we’ve seen in quite some time, perhaps ever. Maybe the human body wasn’t meant to sustain this combination of pitching and hitting, or maybe we just don’t deserve nice things. Either way, this news is heartbreaking.

And we haven’t even gotten to Trout’s injury, which friend Eric Stephen of SB Nation likened to “a twisting of the knife after the initial 47 stab wounds.” Trout was hit by a pitch on the left hand on July 3, and had surgery to remove the hamate bone two days later. He was expected to be sidelined for four to eight weeks, and returned in around seven. Though he went 1-for-4 with an infield single his lone game back on Tuesday, he felt pain in his left hand when hitting, and didn’t play at all in Wednesday’s doubleheader. He’s going back on the injured list, with the hope that with more rest he’ll be able to return this season.

The injuries have interrupted what had already been a comparatively forgettable season for the just-turned-32-year-old Trout, who’s hitting .263/.367/.490, for a career-low 135 wRC+. More unfortunately, this is yet another absence for a player who hasn’t been able to stay on the field for even 140 games since 2018, his age-26 season. He’s played in at least 100 games just twice in the five full seasons since then, and appeared in just 424 out of 674 of the team’s games since the start of 2019, which prorates to 102 games per 162-game season. He’s largely remained an elite performer in that span, hitting for a 167 wRC+ with 7.8 WAR per 650 PA, and produced 40 homers and 6.1 WAR in just 119 games last year. With three MVP awards and the fifth-highest JAWS among center fielders, he’s already a lock for the Hall of Fame, but these absences are costing him milestones, not to mention their impact upon the Angels’ chances of winning.

Between this pair of injuries and the others that have compromised this team even before this skid, the Angels’ bad luck is difficult to comprehend. It’s as though Moreno built this current team atop a cursed cemetery but only moved the headstones, leaving the bad vibes in place. But even if you don’t believe in curses or Poltergeist references, it’s difficult to conclude anything but that Thursday was a very dark day for baseball.





Brooklyn-based Jay Jaffe is a senior writer for FanGraphs, the author of The Cooperstown Casebook (Thomas Dunne Books, 2017) and the creator of the JAWS (Jaffe WAR Score) metric for Hall of Fame analysis. He founded the Futility Infielder website (2001), was a columnist for Baseball Prospectus (2005-2012) and a contributing writer for Sports Illustrated (2012-2018). He has been a recurring guest on MLB Network and a member of the BBWAA since 2011, and a Hall of Fame voter since 2021. Follow him on BlueSky @jayjaffe.bsky.social.

106 Comments
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curt schillings ketchup bottle
2 years ago

Please, ohtani, get as far away from the angels organization as you possibly can.

HappyFunBallMember since 2019
2 years ago

Nothing against the LAAs personally, but there’s some sort of seriously malignant curse hanging over that organization.

Mahoney
2 years ago
Reply to  HappyFunBall

To be fair, while their overall franchise history is among the most cursed ever, and Arte Moreno is one of the biggest curses in baseball history, there was the Scioscia Magic/Rally Monkey era that was the polar opposite, culminating in a WS championship in 2002.

Fans in Seattle and San Diego shouldn’t be blamed if they don’t shed any tears for Angels fans.

Ivan_GrushenkoMember since 2016
2 years ago
Reply to  HappyFunBall

I can think of Lyman Bostock, Donnie Moore, Luis Valbuena, Tyler Skaggs, and Nick Adenhart as fatalities. Minnie Rojas, Kendrys Morales and Bobby Valentine as career wrecking injuries. I see an article mentioning Mike Miley, Dick Wantz, Chico Ruiz and Bruce Heinbechner, of whom I’ve never heard. Seven players who died during their time on the team. I see a bunch of other freak injuries in the article which are similar to what happened in other places. It’s still pretty bad.

Last edited 2 years ago by Ivan_Grushenko
firegrowley
2 years ago

since that of Alex Rodriguez nearly a quarter-century ago

What the heck are you talking about? A-Rod hit free agency in the late 90s…

oh….

oh no…

Mahoney
2 years ago
Reply to  firegrowley

I had been a baseball fan for nearly a quarter-century when A-Rod hit free agency…

#AgeIsButANumberAmirite???

MichaelMember since 2020
2 years ago

it is hard to explain to people who don’t know baseball just how much this hurts. I’m extremely sad about this man

Ivan_GrushenkoMember since 2016
2 years ago

I thought the A’s moving was bad. This is much worse.

Shirtless George Brett
2 years ago

As awesome as it is to watch Ohtani do both full time I have to wonder if it wouldnt be better to just play him as a regular hitter (maybe CF? he seems athletic enough) and have him pitch maybe 80-100ish innings a year in various roles. High leverage reliever, opener, etc.

It would be interesting to see what a more progressive team could do with his flexibility while not having him try and start 25-30 games a year.

Last edited 2 years ago by Shirtless George Brett
HappyFunBallMember since 2019
2 years ago

I would imagine that warming up a reliever who was actively in the game as an OF would be pretty tough. It gets easier if he’s the DH and can get warm during the offensive half of the inning also. It gets downright simple if you just declare that Ohtani will be an opener every 3 days and only let him go an inning or two.

Shirtless George Brett
2 years ago
Reply to  HappyFunBall

Yes obviously he wouldnt be coming in as a reliever on the days he was playing the field. I was more meaning off days/days he was DHing.

Roger McDowell Hot Foot
2 years ago

In the abstract I agree, but I have to figure that when he signs his new contract (after the surgery and recovery timeline, ofc) it’s still going to be on 800-pound gorilla rules. If you pay Ohtani, you’re paying to let him do whatever he wants.

Shirtless George Brett
2 years ago

Yeah, thays my assumption as well. He wont sign anywhere that tries to impose any restrictions. And he seems to want to keep doing both fulltime.

Maybe someone can sell him on a different approach.

v2miccaMember since 2016
2 years ago

But, now that several teams are going to be more interested in him as a hitter and possible offensive player, that will further limit his market. At the end of the day, Ohtani still holds most of the cards, but this will have a major impact on his free agency options.

Ivan_GrushenkoMember since 2016
2 years ago

Yes and he’ll take less money if he has to. I’m guessing he won’t have to.

carterMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  Ivan_Grushenko

I agree. Initially I was like how many hundred million did he lose. But then it really only has to be one team. I still want him to play the field, and be a starting pitcher but we can’t get everything we want

hopbittersMember since 2020
2 years ago

Perhaps it’s time to just pause and be thankful for the time we’ve had with these two.

apbadogsMember since 2026
2 years ago
Reply to  hopbitters

With Trout I think we can all say we wanted more, much more.

speedy
2 years ago

The Angels aren’t cursed. They’re just losers. Like Mush in Bronx Tale.

Ivan_GrushenkoMember since 2016
2 years ago
Reply to  speedy

The two aren’t mutually exclusive

synco
2 years ago

I admire him for wanting to keep playing, but I also hate the idea of him delaying his 2024 return by toiling away in another month or so of games for an Angels team that is going nowhere. If a surgery of some manner is inevitable, I hope he has it asap and looks ahead to the future.

Ivan_GrushenkoMember since 2016
2 years ago
Reply to  synco

That doesn’t seem like his MO

carterMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  synco

I feel like he won’t get the surgery till he has to

rhdx
2 years ago

Ohtani is a phenomenal player and I hope he recovers fully. I do think the value of the extra roster spot is significantly overstated. You get to have an extra replacement level player on your roster. It certainly helps with flexibility – you can add a pitcher or hitter – but if you let the Marlins (closest team to 500) have one extra roster spot, then they would probably have exactly the same record they have now.

Ivan_GrushenkoMember since 2016
2 years ago
Reply to  rhdx

Yes but with Ohtani, that extra replacement level player never has to play

Dmjn53
2 years ago
Reply to  Ivan_Grushenko

And therefore also isn’t valuable

Shirtless George Brett
2 years ago
Reply to  rhdx

IIRC Tom Tango basically said the value of the extra spot was the equivalent of a rounding error. So yeah, not much.

You could also argue that any small value he adds by freeing up a roster spot is negated by the fact that the Angels cant use the DH for anyone else. Most teams will use the DH to give guys a bit of a day off or if they are dinged up. Angels cant do that with Ohtani eating up the DH every game (unless you want to take his bat out of the lineup which, duh, you dont lol).

Like, how much would the Angels probably love to give Trout some more DH time over the past couple years?

carterMember since 2020
2 years ago

This is without even taking into account whoever the angels use as 26th man would likely be sub replacement level

ismailadiemeMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  carter

Ohtani did play some outfield a few years back even with pitching. I wonder if it’s about arm health or if he just doesn’t like it?

Shirtless George Brett
2 years ago
Reply to  ismailadieme

He used to play the OF regularly in Japan. Like 40-50 games a year. Pretty sure its more about giving him rest than him not wanting too.

Sleepy
2 years ago
Reply to  carter

Hell, the 10th thru 26th men on Anaheim are usually sub-replacement level.

carterMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  Sleepy

So what you are saying is that him being 1 player is actually a negative!

Keep Baseball BoringMember since 2016
2 years ago
Reply to  rhdx

The extra roster spot just goes to a sixth starter since Ohtani only pitches once a week, so it isn’t really an extra spot at all. I guess it gives them some extra flexibility at the margins of the roster, but at the cost of giving all the DH PAs to one guy. So is that really a benefit at all?

I don’t say any of this to diminish Ohtani – I just think the “extra roster spot” really only benefits fantasy owners.

Travis LMember since 2016
2 years ago
Reply to  rhdx

Not all replacement level play is equal. Imagine adding a platoon bat – they might only be a 0-1 WAR player full time, but if deployed strategically they could be average-while-playing. Thinking about left handed bats that crush righties or defensive / baserunning specialists who can be inserted at high leverage situations.

One of the few tactical advantages I think has been underutilized in favor of that 8th reliever in the bullpen :/.

ColonelMustard
2 years ago

This development is tough to stomach. It reminds me of that scene in The Sandlot when the fellas realize that they didn’t just lose their ball to The Beast, they lost something priceless and irreplaceable signed by The Babe himself.

I got to see Ohtani in person at Minute Maid park a few years back. I only remember one at-bat from that game: Verlander vs Ohtani resulting in a loud 430 FT+challenge to gravity itself HR to dead center. Would have cleared Tals Hill had it still been there. I don’t remember who won that game (probably the Stros) but I will never forget that moment

firegrowley
2 years ago
Reply to  ColonelMustard

I got to see the McCullers-Ohtani match-up in May 2021. Took my son to see it because, in 20 years, I wanted him to be able to tell his kids he got to see Trout and Ohtani play in person.

ColonelMustard
2 years ago
Reply to  firegrowley

Nice! Definitely know what you mean.

My pops did that for me when the Astros traded for Randy Johnson. Seeing him paired with the Killer B’s was awesome

Left of Centerfield
2 years ago

Making it a doubly sad day for baseball: Stephen Strasburg announced his retirement. Pitching is tough…

Ivan_GrushenkoMember since 2016
2 years ago

But what a wonderful 2019 postseason he had. His flag is flying forever.

Left of Centerfield
2 years ago
Reply to  Ivan_Grushenko

I still remember the hype and anticipation surrounding his debut. And he lived up to that hype and anticipation. He just couldn’t stay healthy.

apbadogsMember since 2026
2 years ago
Reply to  Ivan_Grushenko

Believe he literally destroyed his arm for the WS Title.

synco
2 years ago

Ouch for the Nationals, his contract wasn’t insured and per reports they’ll still have to pay him the full amount ($35m/year through 2026).

I thought contracts were voided if the player voluntarily retires, but I guess not?

PhilMember since 2016
2 years ago
Reply to  synco

I’d imagine starting pitchers are now very hard to insure – the insurance premium would be a sizeable proportion of their salary. So if your star pitcher doesn’t get injured, that’s cost you $15 million.

vslykeMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  synco

It sounds like its a retirement due to his baseball related injuries but generally players who retire forfeit their salary.

Lanidrac
2 years ago
Reply to  vslyke

Yeah, Prince Fielder got the full value of his contract, because his early retirement was forced upon him by his doctors. I don’t know right now if the same is true for Strasburg, but there is precedent for it.

OkraMember since 2016
2 years ago
Reply to  synco

I would assume they worked out a mutual agreement for a reduced payout. He doesn’t have to continue trying to make a comeback that isn’t physically possible and the Nats save a little money. But i’m sure the savings are small. Strasburg has all the leverage here and could simply continue rehabbing for the entirety of the contract for full pay.

offthewall
2 years ago

It will make for fascinating reality TV, watching how teams negotiate with him not knowing what (if any) future he has as a SP.
I assume his future value will decline by at least $200M. No?

Ivan_GrushenkoMember since 2016
2 years ago
Reply to  offthewall

It’s impossible to know but I can’t believe no one will give him $500 million. Instead of 5 teams there may be 2

Shirtless George Brett
2 years ago
Reply to  offthewall

I’m sure someone much smarter than me could do the math and junk to get a clearer answer but I think there is an argument that if he played the field and never threw another pitch he wouldnt lose much, if any value just due to not being soley a DH anymore.

Hypothetically speaking if he played an avg CF and put up similar numbers at the plate he would probably still be a 9+ WAR player.

Last edited 2 years ago by Shirtless George Brett
dl80Member since 2026
2 years ago

The scary part is that he might actually hit better because he won’t have the DH penalty.

firegrowley
2 years ago
Reply to  dl80

Isn’t the DH penalty more a function of how teams use the DH vs someone who is a DH?

fjtorres
2 years ago
Reply to  firegrowley

Not always.
Some players hit significantly better when they play the field and are active all game, not just every 2-3 innings.
Frank Thomas was a notorious example. At 1B he was like a .320 hitter vs a .280 DH.

apbadogsMember since 2026
2 years ago
Reply to  dl80

I was thinking he may hit better because he doesn’t have to take time away the hitting prep to do the pitching prep.

offthewall
2 years ago

I know he has the foot speed for CF. But can he play an average CF? Will his arm still be elite?
If Ohtani is an average LF, what is his projected WAR? Still huge but not 9. What is his $ value as a solid LF and DH?

Shirtless George Brett
2 years ago
Reply to  offthewall

He is a freak athlete. I’m pretty convinced he could play a great CF if he did it full time. If Judge can play a convincing CF I have little doubt Ohtani could also. FWIW Ohtani played RF quite a bit when he was in Japan and was good (at least from what the limited stats tell you).

As for what he would be as an avg corner OF? Well as a comparison Soto put up a 163 wRC+ with below avg defence in 2021 and he was a 7 WAR player. Ohtani currently has a 181 wRC+. So right off the jump he is ~20% better than Soto was at the plate (as insane as that sounds) and would be a better defender too if he was avg. So probably still around a 9 WAR player.

fjtorres
2 years ago

I don’t think any of those contract scenarios apply.
Second TJs are bad news but Ohtani is 28 and *some* pitchers do come back.
My own guess is he’ll either get a RF contract with an opt out at 1&2 years. That way he’s paid fairly as a hitter and if he does recover he renegotiate or goes FA at 30.

I’m thinking Trout money but with opt-outs on top.
(Inflation + winter 2022 happened.)

As to Trout, he shouldn’t have even tried to come back this year. Hamate fractures are murder on power hitters. Particularly on their *power*.

One notable case was Travis Hafner who went from 42 homeruns in 129 games in 2006 to 24 in 159 in 2007.

Not everybody gets wrecked but not all recover fully.

LAA is truly cursed.

Last edited 2 years ago by fjtorres
Ivan_GrushenkoMember since 2016
2 years ago
Reply to  fjtorres

So only $400m?

fjtorres
2 years ago
Reply to  Ivan_Grushenko

$350-400M.
Look at that power profile at age 28, as an of, and compare it to the money dished out last year.
Who is a comparo?
Judge is three years older.
Tatis. and Julio bare younger with less of a track record.

If he comes back to pitch, even as a reliever, they talk.

But even as a bat only his history in rf must be honored.
DH Money is too low.

synco
2 years ago
Reply to  fjtorres

It’s a real shame about Trout. Dude just seems to be broken. Crazy that at this point it seems like he’ll have played the last full year of his career at the age of 24.

Would have loved to have seen what he could have done if he’d stayed even sort of healthy.

fjtorres
2 years ago
Reply to  synco

In some ways (lets hope not all) he is like Grady Sizemore, multitalented with only one speed (all out) and a lot of luck.
Hopefully he’ll be back reasonable whole. But injuries accumulate…

fjtorres
2 years ago
Reply to  fjtorres

The site ate the adjective:”a lot of *bad* luck.

A broken hamate isn’t a sign of fragility like a bulging disk or chronic hammie issues. It just…happened. One ball missed the target…

tung_twista
2 years ago
Reply to  synco

Mike Trout has the 11st most PA ever through age 27.
Trout did more than stay sort of healthy before 2021 and it is recency bias-aided revisionist to suggest otherwise.

synco
2 years ago
Reply to  tung_twista

Yes, Trout came up at 19, was a full-time player at 20, and was batting first or second for nearly all of his early years, when he was very healthy.

Nonetheless, he hasn’t played a full season since he was 24. He’s now 31. He’s only topped 140 games once in that span (2018, when he hit 140 exactly). His pace was 143 in 2020, but given his recent history and the number of games he played in 2019 and 2021, the smart money would bet against his having gotten there.

Honestly seems sort of silly to be arguing about whether Trout has been healthy or not. We all know he hasn’t been. Like I said it’s a shame, he’s one of the top talents of all time. I wish we could have seen the numbers he would have wracked up given health.

cf467
2 years ago

Obviously by reading this site I am a baseball fan(atic) and would like there to be as much baseball as possible…but the recent slate of injuries has got me thinking: is it time we thought about perhaps reducing the number of games in a season? I am prepared to be downvoted into oblivion, but hear me out:

1) There are currently 48 MLB pitchers out with UCL injuries or Tommy John surgery. Right now. That doesn’t include the ones who are out for unspecified “elbow soreness” and flexor strains/surgery. That is an outrageous number, and if you figure that a lot of them probably got injured hanging onto that last roster spot and a few won’t come back strong, I’d estimate that an entire roster’s worth of pitchers every season is having their MLB careers effectively ended to elbow injuries.

2) You can’t control pitcher usage in high schools or colleges, so the onus would be on MLB teams to protect their players as they can when they get into the organization; however, throwing baseballs at 105 mph is effective against MLB hitters, so teams telling their players to chill out with the high velo isn’t going to happen. And with a pipeline of single-inning flamethrowing relievers, the ones on the fringes of the MLB roster are very replaceable anyway. So it has to be a top-down change.

We could argue to expand rosters again to include more relief pitchers, but I personally am not a fan of watching dueling no-hitters every night, so I don’t think that’s the way to go. We could expand the timeframe of the season, but I’m not sure the Twins, Tigers, White Sox, Cubs, Brewers, etc. want to be playing at home in early March (early April is hard enough on them) and doing so would cut into offseason resting/strength and conditioning time too, which is definitely needed.

It used to be that teams played 154ish games and then the best two teams (12.5% of MLB) played up to seven more. No team was playing more than 162 games. But since that era, between the expanded regular season and the expanded playoffs, we can have teams playing up to 22 extra games for a total of up to 184. We also now have 40% of MLB playing at least 164 games.

I could make this a humanitarian issue–by stating that players who are making the MLB minimum are far more likely than established stars to have their careers ended by elbow injury–but as a fan I’m much more concerned with the question of if I will ever get to see another Hall of Fame pitcher after the quartet of Kershaw/ Scherzer/ Verlander/ Greinke retires. Sure, Spencer Strider and Zac Gallen are awesome, but with the current day workload how long can it be until they’re out for a season or more?

Now I know that pitchers have always gotten hurt and that reducing the number of games in a season won’t prevent all injury. The only way to do that would be to put an international ban on baseball. Limiting the number of games will probably not even prevent most catastrophic injuries. But couldn’t we think about:

A) Lowering the number of games in a regular season to like 145, but keeping the same April 1 to October 1 date bounds? This would not only lower the number of competitive innings pitched, but would also give teams 20 extra mid-season rest days and ease the transition rookie starters have to make going from MiLB to MLB (it seems like a proper workload ramp-up takes at least one, maybe two seasons).

B) Being okay with tie games instead of this stupid ghost runner crap and emptying out the bullpen on a Tuesday in June? I’m okay with tie games, and it would mean a maximum of 9 IP for each team per game.

C) Not having a Wild Card Round in the playoffs? I do like how competitive it has made the middling teams in the sport, but this would cut 2-3 games off 40% of MLB teams’ schedules, and maybe more for certain teams.

Any one of these proposals on its own would help the workload issue and hopefully the catastrophic injury issue as well. Obviously Manfred and the owners would never do any of these things without serious pressure, and I know that proposing that there be less baseball on a baseball site is probably an insane thing to do, but I’m just really sick of 2-5 really good pitchers every year needing to miss an entire season or more.

Roger McDowell Hot Foot
2 years ago
Reply to  cf467

You can’t control pitcher usage in high schools or colleges, so the onus would be on MLB

This is the problem right here. At least if Jeff Passan’s The Arm is correct, every human arm basically has a fixed finite number of pitches in it before it needs major surgery. The workload problem that’s causing all these injuries is largely not MLB workload but far upstream of the major leagues, and the current system’s incentives — throw more younger, hope to get signed for $$$ — obviously only keep making it worse.

__AL
2 years ago
Reply to  cf467

With all due respect to Jay, I didn’t really understand this line: “Maybe the human body wasn’t meant to sustain this combination of pitching and hitting” when there’s so much evidence that the human body wasn’t meant to sustain pitching, period.

deuce26
2 years ago
Reply to  __AL

Yeah, don’t know what the hitting has to do with a UCL tear. The 48 pitchers currently out with that injury weren’t two way players.

joe_schlabotnik
2 years ago
Reply to  cf467

I think it really just comes down to the idea that these guys are just being made to throw as hard as possible all the time. What pitchers ever have sustained throwing 99-100 mph consistently over 100+ innings? It always turns into a ucl tear. Every time.

I gotta imagine that if you told shohei to work on his command and top out at 95, he’d be more or less the same pitcher. I guess degrom is the exception cause he always had the command, but even then, why not just paint with 95?

I also wonder if these driveline guys aren’t causing injuries. I’d be curious to see what the rate of injury is for guys who went there. I know shohei did

deuce26
2 years ago

I think the weighted balls that Driveline and others use to increase velocity are a factor, as well.

Lanidrac
2 years ago
Reply to  cf467

Keep in mind that there were also a lot of pitchers who blew their arms out before these surgeries became common. They simply never had a chance to return in the first place.

OddBall Herrera
2 years ago

This is an opportunity for teams that might otherwise have been priced out on Ohtani. Get creative with incentives and be willing to eat some 2024 salary and maybe you get a superstar you otherwise couldn’t have afforded.

Spitball McPhee
2 years ago

I was thinking $600 Million but now maybe $500

deuce26
2 years ago

Well, Soto turned down $440M and Ohtani is superior to him in every way except youth. Plus, there is a hope of some pitching value down the road.

EltnegMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  deuce26

“Superior in every way except youth” doesn’t make a lot of sense when Soto’s youth is the main reason he’s going to get the largest FA contract in MLB history.

There’s a huge difference between hittting FA at 25 vs 29, teams haven’t had the chance to buy up that many prime years from an all-time great hitter since A-Rod back in 2000.

deuce26
2 years ago
Reply to  Eltneg

Point taken, especially if you believe Soto’s listed age is legit. Don’t think the A-Rod comp is that good because of the defensive and base running value he brought.

fjtorres
2 years ago

The numbers from the gamblers today have an over/under of $470 +/- $110.
I’d take the deep under–$350-400 as I said above–but in a world with Cohen and Preller…?

$500M seems a reach but if somebody thinks he can still be a starter for a year or two it might be defensible in a big market.

ColonelMustard
2 years ago

This is ridiculous. Fangraphs my ass. CensorStaffs is a more appropriate name for the site.

ColonelMustard
2 years ago
Reply to  Jay Jaffe

I’m sorry for losing my patience. I just signed up a few days ago and had my comments held back on that interesting Altuve piece and my frustration boiled over when it appeared to be happening on this article as well.

I really enjoy the work produced here and find many of the reader comments insightful. Thanks for responding Jay

hopbittersMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  Jay Jaffe

In defense of the moderation system, the comment itself may not have been suspicious, but why exactly is the good Colonel in the conservatory in the first place? And what’s with the lead pipe?

ColonelMustard
2 years ago
Reply to  hopbitters

In a reversal of my stance earlier, where I was upset that my comments were not reaching the public… I now have… no comment to share publicly

Jason BMember since 2017
2 years ago
Reply to  hopbitters

’twas the colonel in the comment section with the sharp words

apbadogsMember since 2026
2 years ago

Trout is cooked and unfortunately I think we won’t see 450 PA’s in a season again. I hope I’m wrong but if there is a line in Vegas on this I would bet it.

diamonddores
2 years ago
Reply to  apbadogs

best predictor of future injury is past injury. And Trout is about as injury prone as they get these days. #1 skill a pro athlete needs is availability

Jason BMember since 2017
2 years ago
Reply to  diamonddores

 #1 skill a pro athlete needs is availability”

This makes for a cute saying but is demonstrably false. I – and I suspect many of you also – have been freely available for our call to the big leagues for days and weeks and months and years now – but no dice!

Lanidrac
2 years ago

I heard someone on the radio say that the Angels going all in at the trade deadline was the worst roster management blunder in MLB since Babe Ruth was sold to fund a play.

I personally wouldn’t go that far, but the Angels are probably going to suck for quite a while longer.

fjtorres
2 years ago
Reply to  Lanidrac

There’s hope in Vegas, now.

Jason BMember since 2017
2 years ago
Reply to  fjtorres

Hope? In Vegas? They will just add another zero to the roulette wheel, pay 6:5 on a blackjack, and snuff that right out!

OTMHeartBBCMember since 2025
2 years ago

mark trout is cashing checks. loser mentality too bad he could have been an all time great

diamonddores
2 years ago
Reply to  OTMHeartBBC

people will downvote this but the loser mentality is accurate as far as I’m concerned. He signed the extension with a garbage franchise. 3 playoff games in his entire career. Dude spends every October/November playing golf and watching the Eagles

if he really wanted to win a World Series, he’d be requesting a trade to a legit organization

downvote away

BeauMember since 2021
2 years ago
Reply to  diamonddores

I will downvote simply because I don’t keep tabs on Mark Trout although his LinkedIn page looks impressive. 30+ years in the transportation industry is certainly an accomplishment.

Alex RemingtonMember since 2020
2 years ago

Serious question: if Shohei retired tomorrow, would he be a Hall of Famer?

If not, when does he get to that plateau?

ColonelMustard
2 years ago
Reply to  Alex Remington

He’s already a HOFer in my book. He’s accomplished things I didn’t even think were possible in the modern game.

I remember hearing about the Japanese Babe Ruth stuff before he came stateside and thinking “hogwash”.

Yet here we are

Spahn_and_Sain
2 years ago
Reply to  Alex Remington

In 4 seasons when he hits the 10-year eligibility threshold.

StuSheaMember since 2025
2 years ago

“Trout, who’s hitting .263/.367/.490, for a career-low 135 wRC+” is an amazing sentence, isn’t it? Tells you how great he’s been.

Geoff Hunt
2 years ago

Shohei’s situation remind me of Bo Jackson: a once in a lifetime talent cut cut down in his prime. Hopefully Ohtani goes on to have a great career, but my heart aches at the parallels.

Trout, on the other hand, has turned into Ken Griffey Jr. A generational superstar, on the path to being one of the best of all time, whose body betrays him once he gets to the second half of his career.

Depressing all around

Shirtless George Brett
2 years ago
Reply to  Geoff Hunt

Bo Jackson was far, far from a once in a life time talent and shouldnt be mentioned anywhere near Ohtani. I swear Jackson is the most overrated player in MLB history.

Player A – 2362 PA, 82 HR, .262/.334/.445, 113wRC+, 12.4 fWAR
Player B – 2010 PA, 109 HR, .250/.308/.480, 114 wRC+, 6.6 fWAR.

B is Bo Jackson from 1986-1990 (before he got hurt). Player A is Paul O’Neil at the same time and same age. I guess O’neil should have broke more bats over his knee and ran up a wall once.

(Rant over. Bo Jackson’s career triggers me haha)

Last edited 2 years ago by Shirtless George Brett
ColonelMustard
2 years ago

I get what you’re saying but I think the comparison is still valid due to Bo also doing absurd things for the Raiders on the gridiron

Shirtless George Brett
2 years ago
Reply to  ColonelMustard

he is equally overrated as a running back. He was a part time player and people fall into the trap of “if this is what he did part time, imagine what he would do if he was full time!” and we all know that’s not how it works. His entire NFL career was 38 games and 515 carries. As a comparison, Barry Sanders had 342 carries in JUST 1991.

Deion Sanders always gets shafted in the 2 sport conversation. Everyone rides for Bo Jackson but reality is Deion was a much MUCH better football player and comparable MLB player.

Last edited 2 years ago by Shirtless George Brett
ColonelMustard
2 years ago

I agree with you about Primetime.

However Bo had 3100+ yards from scrimmage in 38 career games. He played 4 seasons and in 3 of them had the longest runs from scrimmage for the entire league (91yds, 88yds, and 92 yds).

Defenses had to honor his big play presence, which opened up space for his teammates. He might be overrated some as a RB but he was clearly a dominant force with generational athleticism

ColonelMustard
2 years ago

This is a reply to the new comments you edited in.

At the same time that he was excelling in the NFL, Bo was also proving himself in MLB with 3 straight seasons of being in the top 10 for HRs in the AL : 25(10th), 32(4th), 28(6th)

Framing it that way even undersells his power as his games played in those years were: 125, 134, and 111

His OPS in 1990 at .865 was better than Mark McGwire’s(.859) and Ken Griffey Jr’s(.847)

Blurry Sanders was a God but he played and trained for 1 sport. Not even Michael Jordan could pull off the 2 sport trick.

That Bo was so good at both is what makes him a unicorn and comparable to Ohtani

Last edited 2 years ago by ColonelMustard
Lanidrac
2 years ago

Was the part-time players status just because he was playing baseball every September, or was he truly only a part-time player when he played?

synco
2 years ago
Reply to  Lanidrac

He missed a lot of NFL games due to baseball, and when he played he split carries with Marcus Allen. Allen was two years older and had a lot more carries in his past (which matters a lot in football as RBs get very dinged up), but you can’t ignore that Bo’s yards per attempt were vastly higher than Allen’s while playing behind the same offensive line. Allen was actually below average in Y/A for a lot of the years Bo played, while Bo was in the stratosphere.

Bo was a great football player and had the skills to be one of the greatest RBs of all time. But he was too strong for his own good (doctors have said that the reason his injury was so catastrophic was because he was so strong, he generated so much force that he yanked his hip right out of its socket). It’s a bummer, would have been interesting to see what he would have done.

synco
2 years ago

Bo was an all-time all-around athlete, in the pantheon with Jim Thorpe and yes, Deion Sanders as you mention. When it comes to the power/speed combo, he might be the best of all time. The dude ran a 4.13 40 at 230 lbs in the mid-80s. That’s insane. He probably should have quit it all and trained for the Olympics.

As a baseball player, which is more skill-based than athleticism-based, he was indeed more flash than substance, though he had a few good-not-great years and probably would have had a handful more. It would have been an ugly decline though with that K-rate. Still, putting up a 3-WAR season is no joke.

As a football player he was a stud. Yes as a full-timer his averages would have gone down, but at 5.4 Y/A career he had a long way to fall and still be extremely valuable. He was injury-prone though (obviously), so who knows what would have happened.

ashlandateam
2 years ago

This shouldn’t be lost on that day: Joey Votto ALSO got hurt. And it’s entirely possible that was the last game of his career, simply by looking at the calendar. The Reds haven’t released much about the injury, but it’s a shoulder, and last season was destroyed by a shoulder injury.

So the same game saw Ohtani hurt, Votto hurt, and Trout held out. Just not a great day for baseball in general.

WaldoInSCMember since 2017
2 years ago

No, Otahni is not a unicorn. He actually exists, whereas unicorns are mythical animals. Otahni is one of a kind, which makes him unique.