Larry Baer and the Nature of Plenary Power

Late Friday, news broke that San Francisco Giants Chief Executive Officer Larry Baer had engaged in a physical altercation with his wife, Pam, during a public argument, which was caught on video.

Giants CEO Larry Baer pulled his wife out of a chair and caused her to fall to the ground in a San Francisco plaza on Friday morning, an incident captured on video by a witness and under investigation by city police.

The video shows Baer stepping over his wife, Pam, as she sits in a chair in the plaza in Hayes Valley before noon. She screams, “Oh, my God, no, help!” as Baer appears to try to grab a phone out of her right hand.

You can see that video here; we’re not going to embed it due to its disturbing nature. Not long after the incident was initially reported, Baer released a statement purporting to clarify the events shown on video.

Larry Baer told The Chronicle in an interview, “My wife and I had an unfortunate public argument related to a family member and she had an injured foot and she fell off her chair in the course of the argument. The matter is resolved. It was a squabble over a cell phone. Obviously, it’s embarrassing.”

Later Friday, the pair issued a joint statement through the Giants: “Regrettably, today we had a heated argument in public over a family matter. We are deeply embarrassed by the situation and have resolved the issue.”

After a public backlash, however, Baer issued an additional statement apologizing for his conduct.

Pam Baer issued a statement of her own.

It is worth noting that Pam’s description of events does not fully match those depicted in the video; she does not, for instance, mention yelling for help.

Today, the Giants’ Board of Directors released a statement noting that Baer has asked to take away from the team.

Ordinarily, these events, unfortunate though they are, wouldn’t be the province of FanGraphs. However, Baer’s status as Chief Executive Officer of the Giants means that there could be real repercussions for him and the team as a result of his conduct. Baer was appointed by the team’s owners to oversee its operations; he actually helped to constitute the team’s current ownership group, and owns a small stake himself. He is also the Giants’ designated “control person,” and attends league ownership meetings on their behalf. The control person is the face of the franchise to Major League Baseball; they’re “accountable to MLB for the operation of the team and for its compliance with the rules of baseball.” In other words, they’re the member of the ownership group the team designates as the person in charge of its operations.

As a result, Baer is subject to a policy substantially similar to the Joint Domestic Violence, Sexual Assault, and Child Abuse policy found in the Major League Baseball Collective Bargaining Agreement, which requires parallel prohibitions under a separate policy for non-player employees.. Article X of the Joint Policy (you can find it on page 325) says this (emphasis mine):

The Parties agree that Major League Baseball, its affiliated businesses, every Club and the Players Association shall institute Domestic Violence, Sexual Assault and Child Abuse Policies that are comparable both in terms of scope and discipline for their respective employees, managers, executives, and owners. The cost of implementing and administering these comparable policies will be the responsibility of the individual organization.

In other words, we can reasonably expect that Baer is covered by a policy that contains approximately the same prohibitions, and approximately the same discipline, as the Joint Policy. And we can also expect that this policy is administered at least in part by Major League Baseball, which has already begun an investigation. Indeed, Baer appears to have the ignominious distinction of being the first non-player investigated under the league’s domestic violence policy.

So what can we expect in terms of discipline for Baer? Craig Calcaterra took a look at this, but his analysis was performed in the context of discipline for owners. The problem is that while Baer does own a small stake in the team, he also works for the team in an employee capacity as a representative of the owners. So the relevant question is what power Commissioner Rob Manfred has to discipline Baer and the Giants for this sort of conduct, not just as an owner, but as an employee as well.

As far as disciplining team employees goes, things are actually fairly straightforward. The Major League Rules leave little ambiguity that teams, and those they employ, are subject to the Commissioner’s disciplinary power. Rule 22, for instance, states:

All Clubs and players shall submit themselves to the discipline of the Commissioner as provided in the Major League Constitution and accept the Commissioner’s decisions rendered in accordance with the Major League Constitution and these Rules.

And Rule 24 goes one step farther:

Both the Commissioner and a Club are entitled to discipline any manager, trainer, coach, scout, or other personnel who is not a player, in case of a violation of contract, the Major League Constitution, the Major League Rules, the Commissioner’s regulations, or other rules, policies and guidelines. Such discipline may include fining, dismissing, releasing, suspending or expelling the offender. Any Club dismissing, releasing, suspending or expelling any such person shall at once notify the Commissioner’s Office in writing stating the cause of such action. . . . Unless prior approval of the Commissioner is granted, no person who has been suspended or otherwise declared ineligible shall perform any function for any Club or any other entity related to the Clubs during the duration of the suspension or period of ineligibility.

So what does the Major League Baseball Constitution say about the commissioner’s disciplinary power?

In the case of conduct by Major League Clubs, owners, officers, employees or players that is deemed by the Commissioner not to be in the best interests of Baseball, punitive action by the Commissioner for each offense may include any one or more of the following:

(a) a reprimand; (b) deprivation of a Major League Club of representation in Major League Meetings; (c) suspension or removal of any owner, officer or employee of a Major League Club; (d) temporary or permanent ineligibility of a player; (e) a fine, not to exceed $2,000,000 in the case of a Major League Club, not to exceed $500,000 in the case of an owner, officer or employee, and in an amount consistent with the then-current Basic Agreement with the Major League Baseball Players Association, in the case of a player; (f) loss of the benefit of any or all of the Major League Rules, including but not limited to the denial or transfer of player selection rights provided by Major League Rules 4 and 5; and (g) such other actions as the Commissioner may deem appropriate.

In other words, the Commissioner can exercise a tremendous amount of discretion when it comes to determining punishments in cases like this. This kind of blanket authority is known as plenary power: “Power that is wide-ranging, broadly construed, and often limitless for all practical purposes.” If the Commissioner decides that you’ve behaved in a manner which violates a Rule, he has complete authority to punish you for doing so. We saw this when Major League Baseball suspended Padres General Manager A.J. Preller for 30 days for failing to disclose that southpaw Drew Pomeranz was injured prior to trading him to the Boston Red Sox. Preller agreed to accept that discipline under Rule 22 with no recourse even before it was issued: that’s how plenary authority works. Similarly, then-Commissioner Fay Vincent suspended late Yankees owner George Steinbrenner for life back in 1990; he was later reinstated. So Manfred could strip Baer of his role as CEO, but allow him to keep his ownership stake – or both, or vice versa.

Now, you might ask why the Commissioner’s authority is greater here than it is concerning players. That’s because the players have collectively bargained for greater protections, such as appeal rights. In fact, as you can see above, the MLB Constitution defers to the CBA as to player discipline – but contains very different limits as to non-players. Front office personnel, who aren’t unionized, are essentially subject to the Commissioner’s plenary authority. And the “such other actions” catchall essentially means that the Commissioner can do what he wants. The Commissioner is limited by the expressly included fine restrictions, but a person fined $500,000 would, in theory, have no appeal rights to anyone other than the Commissioner himself.

You might also wonder why the Commissioner has more power to discipline an executive under the Joint Policy than he does a player. That’s because of that “scope” and “discipline” language we mentioned before – the appeal rights (i.e., the players’ safeguards) don’t apply here. In other words, the employees of a team are subject to a policy that is required to cover the same conduct, but doesn’t need to follow the same procedures for meting out discipline.

So what can Manfred do to punish Baer? He can reprimand him. He can fine him up to $500,000 with no appeal. He can suspend him for any period of time, ranging from one day to forever, barring any involvement with the Giants during that period. He can order him replaced as the Giants’ control person. He can bar him from owners’ meetings for any period of time. Baer’s role as an owner makes the situation more complicated — Manfred could strip Baer of his role as CEO, but allow him to keep his ownership stake – or both, or vice versa, though given the circumstances under which owners have been removed historically, Baer being forced out seems unlikely here. And it’s worth noting that the Giants as an organization have the authority to punish Baer, though it’s unclear whether that option is even on the table beyond the personal leave the Giants indicate he voluntarily requested; also unclear is who will assume the position of control person in his absence.

The problem is that, as we mentioned before, no front office employee or executive has ever been investigated or disciplined under the domestic violence policy before, so there’s no real precedent here. Further, Pam Baer’s statement downplaying the incident means that she may be unwilling to cooperate with MLB investigators, making any discipline more complicated. As a result, we really have no idea how Manfred will respond to this. If he uses player suspensions as precedent, we may be looking at a lengthy one. But it’s also worth noting that Manfred may be unwilling or unable to harshly discipline a team’s control person, given that the 30 control agents are, in essence, Manfred’s bosses. On the other hand, the Players’ Association would justifiably be irked if Baer went undisciplined, with the message being sent that front office executives aren’t subject to the same standards of conduct that players are.

Whatever Manfred decides is going to set a pretty significant precedent moving forward. It remains to be seen what message he and Major League Baseball want to send – and who they want the recipients of that message to be.

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Sheryl Ring is a litigation attorney and General Counsel at Open Communities, a non-profit legal aid agency in the Chicago suburbs. You can reach her on twitter at @Ring_Sheryl. The opinions expressed here are solely the author's. This post is intended for informational purposes only and is not intended as legal advice.

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Fredchuckdave
7 years ago

Baer and Robert Kraft are sentenced to live on a private island for 3 months, said island is of course filled with mountains of hookers and blow.

HappyFunBallMember since 2019
7 years ago
Reply to  Fredchuckdave

Better yet, only one hooker and a very limited supply of blow. They can fight it out.

WebsMember since 2020
7 years ago
Reply to  HappyFunBall

<bender>Forget the hookers. Forget the blow. Aw, forget the whole thing.</bender>

TommyLasordid
7 years ago

In light of the zero tolerance stance that MLB has taken on domestic violence on the part of players, they have to act with punishment similar to what they would give a player under similar circumstances. If they blow this off as a “wife of top executive falls out of chair, oops” accident, all credibility is lost. I’d expect a reasonable suspension of Baer with no contact with Giants brass. Six months to a year?

Jon
7 years ago
Reply to  TommyLasordid

In this case, zero punishment seems about right, for either a player or an executive.

AlexTheGreat
7 years ago

If anyone has any inclination to believe Larry Baer’s side of this I would encourage you to watch the video.

carterMember since 2020
7 years ago
Reply to  AlexTheGreat

The thing is, I have watched it. Multiple times. Seems to me like an older lady falling out of a chair because her husband was trying to grab his phone. Doesn’t really seem like it warrants anything, but I understand from the medias perspective that this sells.

“You can see that video here; we’re not going to embed it due to its disturbing nature.”

I don’t feel like it is disturbing at all. I wanted to get another point of view on the video, so I asked my wife (a yoga teacher in the pacific northwest) and she asked why the lady was screaming.

Jetsy Extrano
7 years ago
Reply to  carter

Try coming at this from the direction of: why is she screaming?

TulkasMember since 2024
7 years ago
Reply to  Jetsy Extrano

Because she was agitated in fighting with her husband. Because her chair was falling over and screaming is a natural reaction when confronted with gravity. I don’t see for a minute that she’s afraid of getting physically harmed by him.

carterMember since 2020
7 years ago
Reply to  Jetsy Extrano

I agree. If she is screaming because he is abusive, that is one thing. However if she is screaming because she is a rich melodramatic drama queen that is another thing. Or, maybe she actually had a hurt ankle. That would make sense as well. I’m sure you have all seen the grape lady video, some people react strangely to pain. I don’t know, and if evidence comes out that he physically abuses her then that would change my opinion. He did seem to be brewing at the end. Personally, I would be surprised if he did, but again I don’t know, nor do you. This video is nothing. Writing an article about it is muckraking.

CC AFCMember since 2016
7 years ago
Reply to  carter

What more evidence do you need to see to establish that he physically abuses her beyond video footage of him abusing her in public and admitting to its authenticity? Jesus tap dancing Christ. We really are in a post-fact world.

And if you mean you need more evidence that he abuses her on OTHER occasions, maybe ask yourself what he’s doing in private if he’s doing that in public?

Also, *sees video of woman being abused. Wonders if she’s a “melodramatic drama queen.”*

Cmon man. We’ve moved on from victim blaming for a long time ago.

carterMember since 2020
7 years ago
Reply to  CC AFC

This is not post-fact. This is there is no facts. What video are you watching? There is nothing even remotely resembling abuse there. Why are people so quick to make this political?

How about charging her with Grand Larceny since the phone is likely worth 1k dollars? We can all agree that seems unreasonable, right? Saying this is abuse is equally unreasonable. I have watched this video dozens of times trying to see what anyone sees in it. If you watch it without sound, it is nothing at all. If you watch it with sound you mostly wonder why she is screaming. But that isn’t enough to make it domestic violence.

It is an issue I am coming across frequently now, the idea of group-think. Lets say that I am a Bernie supporter, and am dreaming on AOC in 8 years. Does that mean that I have to just blindly follow stuff I don’t agree with? That is what I find so funny about all these articles. Sheryl and I probably vote nearly identical, yet I can’t be more put off by her viewpoints/wording in a lot of the articles she writes. I get it from Fangraphs point of view, as her articles get a lot of comments, as people get passionate about things that are political, and she certainly has been a net-positive for Fangraphs in terms of views. The issue for me is, basically everything she writes is opinion trying to be passed off as something other than opinion.

OddBall Herrera
7 years ago
Reply to  carter

“It is an issue I am coming across frequently now, the idea of group-think. Lets say that I am a Bernie supporter, and am dreaming on AOC in 8 years. Does that mean that I have to just blindly follow stuff I don’t agree with?”

Should you have doubts of the party line it is a personal failing of your own, not the party’s. Shame on you 😉

OddBall Herrera
7 years ago

This was obviously said in sarcasm

OddBall Herrera
7 years ago
Reply to  CC AFC

I think it’s highly questionable from the video if the had any actual intent to harm her. I see a guy grabbing for a phone followed by what look like unintended consequences.

Now, he is certainly responsible for those unexpected consequences. If you make an aggressive act like that and accidentally hurt someone, that’s on you, but there’s little basis in that video to suggest that you can make broad statements about how he does or does not behave at home. Sure, his posture and his actions make him seem like a guy who can channel his emotions into physicality, and yes, he clearly intended to overpower her to get the phone back. That’s about all I can make of the video without any other evidence, and again, just that should carry some sort of penalty. Treating him like Ray Rice? I would want more information.

You are making the inferences that you want to make – I know it’s not emotionally gratifying (or popular in the online world) to say ‘I don’t know yet’, but it’s the intellectually honest thing to do.

Johnston
7 years ago
Reply to  carter

“This video is nothing. Writing an article about it is muckraking.”

Nailed it. But what did you expect, given the prevalent anti-male, anti-due-process, believe-all-women-without-evidence, who-needs-an-arrest-or-conviction-to-declare-guilt progressive media bias?

AlexTheGreat
7 years ago
Reply to  carter

I wouldn’t say it’s disturbing but he’s clearly getting overly physical with her and it wasn’t her trying to get up and losing her balance.

bjoakMember since 2020
7 years ago
Reply to  AlexTheGreat

The problem is the video is out of context and we have no idea why she had that cellphone. What if she grabbed his cellphone to wire all his money to her account or if she threatened to beat him with it or if she was calling her sniper on a neighboring rooftop to take the shot? In other words, we’re considering the video and he looks bad but it is far from all the evidence in the case.

theojdMember since 2023
7 years ago

Unpopular opinion coming…

But video didn’t seem that bad to me. My parents fought way worse on a daily basis (not that that justifies this, but on a scale from 1-10, this seems like a 1.5 ) And like, he’s clearly going for just the phone there and they got tangled up and she fell. Call me crazy, but this is just nowhere near the level of other videos of domestic disputes surfacing. This looks like two grown-up children fighting over a toy and unfortunately someone got it on video.

As a public figure (sort of?) he should have been more careful to not get involved in something so stupid in public. I’m sure there was a better way to handle whatever was going on between the two of them, but they did not choose that route. It also doesn’t help things that she starts yelling oh my god help and then just screams bloody murder like he’s reigning blows on her. Forgive me, and this is very taboo in today’s day and age, but it just seemed like histrionics to me. Now he’s taking a leave of absence.

Honestly, I just feel bad for the guy.

TulkasMember since 2024
7 years ago
Reply to  theojd

Yeah I agree with you. This is being blown way out of proportion. It’s an unfortunate an embarrassing fight, nothing more.

CC AFCMember since 2016
7 years ago
Reply to  theojd

How, just, how is it your reaction to seeing a wealthy sports owner act violently towards his wife, then take a voluntary leave of absence (who even knows that means in this context) that you feel bad for HIM?

I feel like I’m taking crazy pills reading these comments from a normally super thoughtful group of people.

TulkasMember since 2024
7 years ago
Reply to  CC AFC

To call trying to grab your own phone back “acting violently” is a bit of a stretch. No one was hurt. No one tried to hurt anyone. She was in the wrong for taking his property, he was in the wrong for trying to grab it back forcefully. But this is not violent.

Also, she suffered absolutely nothing from this. She wasn’t hurt. She wasn’t threatened with being hurt. She hasn’t seen any consequences in her employment. He, however, is finding is career in jeopardy because of an embarrassing public fight.

OddBall Herrera
7 years ago
Reply to  CC AFC

” then take a voluntary leave of absence”

You can’t use a voluntary leave of absence or an apology as self evident proof. Public figures and organizations go into damage control. They manage the optics of things, not necessarily the reality of them. This is particularly so in the age of internet outrage – people are constantly self-effacing just to get the Twitter mob off their backs.

I am not saying that’s what happened here, just that you can’t ignore that as a possibility.

Sabometrics
7 years ago
Reply to  CC AFC

His wealth and occupation are completely irrelevant if the question is whether his conduct was inappropriate.

Jon
7 years ago
Reply to  theojd

Agree 100%. I watched it multiple times, clicking as fast as I could to pause/play it (like slow motion).

He’s very clearly only going for the cell phone (though I thought it was more like a brown folder or notebook or something – I guess that’s how big cell phones are these days). Was he too aggressive in trying to grab the phone? Yes. Was there any evidence whatsoever that he tried to hurt her or knock or off the chair? No.

“They got tangled up” is actually a great description of what happened. I’d be willing to bet that nearly every person in the world, at some point, tried to grab something from someone else, and that resulted in one or both of them losing their balance.

And the scream seems completely natural for someone sitting on a chair as it’s tipping over. That is a frightening thing to happen, especially if you’re not expecting it. I know I instinctually scream about much less.

AlexTheGreat
7 years ago
Reply to  Jon

They didn’t get tangled up, he knocked her over even though she was sitting

Jon
7 years ago
Reply to  AlexTheGreat

*If* he knocked her over, he did it accidentally as they were both trying to keep a hold on the phoned, and not intentionally, which is the important thing.

AlexTheGreat
7 years ago
Reply to  Jon

They didn’t both try to pick up the phone from the table at the same time, he wasn’t ‘trying to keep a hold of it’, he literally climbed over her to grab it out of her hand. He grabbed her wrist and pulled her down.

That his goal wasn’t to cause harm is immaterial.

TulkasMember since 2024
7 years ago
Reply to  AlexTheGreat

I mean, if she wasn’t harmed in any way, wouldn’t him intending to cause harm be the only plausible reason anything is wrong in this situation? Not sure how you say that whether she was harmed and also whether he intended to harm her are both immaterial.

AlexTheGreat
7 years ago
Reply to  Tulkas

I never said whether she was harmed was immaterial, obviously if she had suffered harm this would be way worse.

TulkasMember since 2024
7 years ago
Reply to  AlexTheGreat

One time, my girlfriend was standing behind me at a family party, and I backed up into her while she was drinking a beer, knocking it into her mouth and causing her pain. Am I now an abuser?

Or there was the time we were sitting next to each other and she hit me in the face because she was opening a little too forcefully. Is she a domestic abuser now too?

AlexTheGreat
7 years ago
Reply to  Tulkas

I never said he was an abuser.

TulkasMember since 2024
7 years ago
Reply to  AlexTheGreat

So he’s not an abuser, just someone who did abuse this one time? Not quite sure what your point is here.

AlexTheGreat
7 years ago
Reply to  Tulkas

I never said it was abuse

AlexTheGreat
7 years ago
Reply to  Tulkas

In your examples you’re taking his aggressive actions out of the equation so it’s not at all comparable.

FillmoreMember since 2026
7 years ago
Reply to  theojd

Apparently not an unpopular opinion. And while I agree it’s an entirely plausible interpretation, I also think there is enough here to warrant an investigation. Larry caused, whether inadvertently or not, his wife to fall on the ground and scream out. Even if it were entirely accidental, then the worst thing that will happen here is a grown man who should have known better than to squabble over a phone in public will face some extra embarrassment. And if it were not completely accidental, then hopefully that will come to light, and there will be legal repercussions. I can’t say I feel particularly bad for him regardless of the investigation’s outcome.

Jon
7 years ago
Reply to  Fillmore

I don’t have a problem with an investigation. But if there’s no new information and all they have to go on is that video, and they decide anything other than “he grabbed the phone from her, and in the process she lost her balance and fell” then that would be a blown call of “Armando Galarraga’s perfect game that wasn’t” proportions.

WebsMember since 2020
7 years ago

The video looks to me like it shows the actions of a jealous man. I would bet good money that this is Larry Baer’s cell phone only by the fact that he paid for it and that he thought Pam was texting (or doing more) with a romantic interest – and he grabbed it to find out.

averagejoe15Member since 2024
7 years ago
Reply to  Webs

My initial reaction was the opposite situation. His wife was looking a little too closely at his phone and there were things he may have not wanted her to see. He became increasingly uncomfortable, which made him angry/desperate so he acted out without concern for the consequences of his actions in that moment. I could see the jealously angle but if it is his phone this makes a lot more sense to me.

That said, that’s purely speculation on my part.

cjbrassa
7 years ago

I hate DV as much of the next guy, but I see two adults wrestling over control of a phone and one falling out of her chair. Childish? Yes. Embarrassing? Undoubtedly. Domestic violence worthy of a suspension? I don’t see it.

carterMember since 2020
7 years ago

In all serious this is not domestic violence. Why was she prompted to scream for help? That would be the concern, not this instance. This is much ado about nothing. While it might not have happened had he not reached for the phone, no part of reaching for your own phone seems bad to me. He didn’t throw her on the ground.

carterMember since 2020
7 years ago
Reply to  carter

*seriousness. My original comment was Reaaacccch which was deleted by someone?

carterMember since 2020
7 years ago

You guys delete comments now?

Curacao LL
7 years ago

Well, the #MeTooFar crowd will milk it for all its worth, but to me the video looks like two people trying to grab a cellphone. In post-incident statements, that’s what both parties have said.

This is an embarrassment, but anything more is a stretch.

Original Greaser Bob
7 years ago

Sheryl please somehow add all of your posts to the leaderboard. I demand player pages and advanced metrics. Nevermind please continue the ESPNization of Fangraphs.

TulkasMember since 2024
7 years ago

I think we’re getting a bit overzealous here. Calling this disturbing or domestic violence really isn’t fair. Baer clearly wasn’t trying to hurt his wife, and clearly didn’t hurt his wife. He was reaching for his property that she had taken, and in the course of events she fell over and screamed. If the roles were reversed, and Larry Baer had taken his wife’s phone and wasn’t giving it back, and she reached to take it from him, causing him to fall over, would there be this backlash?

I mean, couples fight. Sometimes publicly. I have seen more disturbing fights from plenty of couples that I would never call domestic violence. Especially with Pam Baer’s statement, this is a massive overreaction.

CC AFCMember since 2016
7 years ago
Reply to  Tulkas

You have seen many more significant fights that you would not describe as dv? This is problematic and I’m glad I apparently don’t know the people you know.

And you are aware that victims of domestic violence often defend their abuser, right?

FillmoreMember since 2026
7 years ago
Reply to  CC AFC

Let’s not do the thing where we make an argument equivalent to “You claim you’re innocent? Well that’s exactly what a guilty person would say!”

Maybe there’s something going on here, maybe not. It’s being investigated, as it should be. But there’s nothing in the video that screams out to me as either clear domestic violence or clear evidence of a relationship that’s abusive at home. If you’re seeing more than that then I think you’re assuming things that aren’t warranted by the video alone.

CC AFCMember since 2016
7 years ago
Reply to  Fillmore

That’s not what anyone’s doing. It is well documented that dv victims often defend their abusers. I’d link some research for you but a) it would cause my comment to get caught in FanGraphs’ filter and b) you’re a big boy, I’m not going to hold your hand, and you can try to learn something yourself before you show your whole ass. The point is not that her statement is clear evidence she is a victim of many instances of dv, it’s that her statement is not meaningful evidence that what we all saw clear as day on video was ok.

FillmoreMember since 2026
7 years ago
Reply to  CC AFC

It’s precisely what you’re doing, and never do it again. Ever. You can also drop the condescending “big boy” talk. I guarantee you it’s neither justified nor effective.

I don’t need to research your claim because I’m already aware of it. But for you to bring it up in the manner you did, as if that’s oh so clearly what’s happening here, is a disservice to Pam Baer and victims in general. Barring solid reasons to doubt her, why not take her at her word? Assuming that she’s a traumatized victim of both abuse and Stockholm Syndrome is insulting to her, doubly so because you probably think you’re helping to empower domestic violence victims by doing so.

Again, this isn’t an issue that requires your outrage. An investigation is underway, and I agree that there is enough to warrant it. It is entirely possible Larry Baer’s actions were neither “ok” nor “domestic abuse”. There are some people here who are, for one reason or another, definitely biased towards Larry Baer more than is justified. You don’t need to overcorrect in the other direction (yes, that’s what you are doing.) Seeing one short video snippet of this particular interaction is not enough to draw a strong conclusion.

CC AFCMember since 2016
7 years ago
Reply to  Fillmore

I don’t doubt or credit her statement. I saw with my own eyes what happened. I hope she’s not a victim of more violence than she already was, but I know enough to know not to take that statement as contradicting what is readily observable.

But by all means, feel free to die on the hill of defending some bullshit rich dude who throws his wife around

FillmoreMember since 2026
7 years ago
Reply to  CC AFC

That seems fair. Hopefully the team investigation is a legitimate one, not just for show.

What I object to in your statements is this one-sided interpretation, in which you seem unable to see the video as anything other than abuse, and in which only Larry Baer could possibly hold blame. But as others have said: a) all parties involved agree they were struggling over Larry’s cell phone which Pam had taken from him, and b) it is entirely possible (and plausible, given the video) that they got “tangled up” and Pam fell entirely by accident (i.e., it was a fluke and there was no intent on Larry’s part to harm her). Are either of these hard to believe, especially since that’s what all parties have agreed happened? Can’t both of them have exhibited bad behavior?

But no, apparently all you can see as “readily observable” is that a man “attacked” a woman and is 100% in the wrong, and I genuinely don’t get it. If this was just a fluke accidental trip as they both struggled for the phone, as looks entirely possible, then it seems absurd to call it domestic violence.

She did scream, and for me, that’s the difference maker that makes this worthy of an investigation. But again, it’s hardly conclusive of anything, and I can easily imagine various reasons she might have screamed while falling that don’t point to an abusive marriage. Can you seriously not?

Domestic violence has historically been under-reported and under-penalized, and steps should be (and in many places and ways, are being) taken to rectify this. But every sentence you write permeates with this overcorrective attitude that I genuinely believe hurts that movement far more than it helps – an attitude that implies that women’s only roles in these stories are that of the victim, that acts as if any remotely physical conflict between the sexes qualifies as abuse, and that thinks that seeing nuance or ambiguity in situations like these is equivalent to being a domestic violence apologist. It is also an attitude, in my experience, that when confronted with being called out on the aforementioned things, will strongly deny them with “no of course I didn’t mean that”, then go right back to doing them and making those same insinuations. Or will throw out some accusation like “you’re probably one of those guys who says ‘if a woman hits a man, then the man should be able to hit her right back!'” (I’m not, and I think those guys are jackasses. I’m fairly certain if we compared our political and social views, they would match up >= 95%)

In conclusion, make better arguments. Don’t assume guilt (or innocence), or make logical fallacies that you would call out in an instant if they were used against you. Being on “the right side of history” does not absolve you of this duty. It makes it all the more essential.

Jon
7 years ago
Reply to  CC AFC

By calling this “throwing his wife around” you’re doing nothing but embarrassing yourself.

timprov
7 years ago
Reply to  CC AFC

You’re aware that one of the larger signs of domestic abuse is taking the partner’s phone without permission, right?

kaynab
7 years ago
Reply to  timprov

So she is abusing him… you know, since it was his phone?

Superstitchin
7 years ago
Reply to  kaynab

Thank you.

So many people are coming in hot here, ready to fire a shot, without even having read the (agreed upon) facts.

TulkasMember since 2024
7 years ago
Reply to  CC AFC

Well yeah. I’ve seen fights where people are actually yelling terrible things at each other or being truly manipulative. Personally, that’s far more serious than what I see here. This is a short term tussle, that’s all. They were bickering, she took his phone and wouldn’t give it back, and he wanted it back and went for it, in the process knocking over her chair causing no injuries. This is nothing.

WoundedSprinterMember since 2018
7 years ago

“I am truly sorry for the pain that I have brought to my wife, children and to the organization.”

Well, see, the thing here is that *nobody* outside the “organization” could *possibly* believe that the organization feels any pain.* Apart from some nebulous crap about reputation, which blows with the wind. So that’s legalese bullshit, designed to keep his job.

And assuming that the children are in some way traumatised, I don’t think a public statement is going to help. I’m going to be facetious here, but actually I think buying a big fluffy toy would work better. (Maybe an iPhone. I’d prefer a big fluffy toy, ; I am from a previous generation. But yes, I am being facetious.)

Oh yes, his wife. It is my considered opinion, and I have wrestled with this deep conundrum for a while, that he should probably apologise to his wife. And I think I can speak for all sensible males who are lucky enough to snare an unsuspecting female when I say that we should *all* apologise to our better halves when we get into a snit, throw things around, barge them around … yes, this is horrible. But it’s also quotidien. It’s human, it’s family, it’s even Family Court.

But just because the male nitwit in question is a member of the MLB tribe doesn’t make it any different.

“So what can we expect in terms of discipline for Baer?.”

I devoutly hope, nothing at all. If the actual, real, US justice system can’t handle this, then God Help Us All.

* I kind of forgot my basic point of outrage here. Which is: Domestic Violence is a real and omnipresent thing. (It may or may not have occurred in this case. That is irrelevant.) And if we can only address it by “organization shaming” … well, then. We are buggered.

averagejoe15Member since 2024
7 years ago

This isn’t solely a justice system issue though.

The fact someone in a public position would act out in this childish manner is actually why I think the MLB should suspend or ask the Giants to replace him as the rep. From my perspective, whether or not it’s DV (this specific instance doesn’t strike me as DV on its own), the lack of maturity and emotional control in a public setting just isn’t acceptable for someone in Baer’s position. The video itself is beyond embarrassing to watch, he looks like a moody teen whose girlfriend caught him texting someone else.

Whether you deem it consequential in the long-term or not, this is bad optics for the MLB, for the Giants, and especially for Baer and there are, and rightfully should be, consequences for that.

Sure people argue in public all the time, people get heated, overreact, etc. But individuals in the public eye are justifiably held to a higher standard in my opinion.

TulkasMember since 2024
7 years ago
Reply to  averagejoe15

I’m really not sure that Larry Baer is “in the public eye” enough to be held to a higher standard. Let’s be honest, how many of us even knew this guy’s name before this? I couldn’t tell you the name of the guy who does this job on my favorite team. He’s employed by a private organization for an office role. Just because he works for a major company or he goes outside sometimes doesn’t make him a public figure.

averagejoe15Member since 2024
7 years ago
Reply to  Tulkas

He’s a public enough figure that this went viral and we’ve all heard about it. The fact this has become a notable issue in baseball is proof enough.

That said, even if he’s not a public figure in your estimation, a lack of punishment would promote the behavior as “acceptable.” If any random team employee had a video like this surface and the team became aware they would certainly be speaking with HR.

Jon
7 years ago

Calling this “domestic violence” (or worse, “assault”) does a disservice to the many many women who actually ARE victims of domestic violence and assault.

There are, sadly, many people (mostly men) who still need to be convinced that domestic assault is an actual problem.

Here we have two people trying to grab a cell phone and one of them losing her balance. All that screaming “Assault!” about the incident will do is make people scoff at other (legitimate) instances of domestic violence.

AlexTheGreat
7 years ago
Reply to  Jon

She was sitting on a chair, she didn’t lose her balance, he knocked her over.

Jon
7 years ago
Reply to  AlexTheGreat

He clearly had his hands on the phone the entire time. Are you claiming he “knocked her over” by (something like) dragging her off the chair via the phone?

AlexTheGreat
7 years ago
Reply to  Jon

Do you think she would have fallen if he didn’t attempt to wrestle the phone away from her?

Jon
7 years ago
Reply to  AlexTheGreat

Of course not. Nobody is saying that it’s not his *fault* – if she was hurt he would undoubtedly be responsible.

They’re saying he didn’t intend for her to fall, and that he’s not guilty of domestic violence or abuse, and there’s nothing in the video which shows that he is.

AlexTheGreat
7 years ago
Reply to  Jon

And I never said it was DV. I’m saying they lied about what it was in their statements, and many people here are trying to minimize it or portray it as some kind of two sided struggle. Should she just have let him grab something out of her hand? How would you react if someone stood over you and tried to grab your phone ?

Jon
7 years ago
Reply to  AlexTheGreat

You said he “knocked her out of her chair” which is demonstrably false, and if it were true, would most likely constitute domestic violence.

And what specifically did they lie about in their statements? The video I’m watching precisely matches their statements.

AlexTheGreat
7 years ago
Reply to  Jon

They said she fell over as she stood up on her bad foot. I don’t see any attempt to stand up, to me it looks like he pulls her over.

Jon
7 years ago
Reply to  AlexTheGreat

They didn’t say “as she stood up” – she said “I started to get up.” He said nothing related to her standing up.

That said, it is difficult to see her moving upward vertically. It happened quickly, and the chair began to tip early on. What I think is more likely (but of course this is just my speculation) is that she *wanted* to stand up (which is a natural thing to do when someone’s trying to grab something from you while you’re seated and they’re standing), and may have started the initial motion to do so, and then the chair started tipping.

In any case though, I think you’re grasping at straws, as whether or not she actually started to stand doesn’t seem relevant at all. If that’s your only complaint, what’s the big deal?

AlexTheGreat
7 years ago
Reply to  Jon

In my mind getting up from a seated position implies standing up?

My complaint is that he went over and wrestled the phone away from her, roughly enough that she fell from a seated position in the struggle. Many posts seem to be trying to minimize that. It is technically assault, although really only technically.

But more worrying is that he decided to do this out in public where he knows he could be filmed. What does that say about his judgement and what else is happening in private?

You say what’s the big deal, and I ask what’s the big deal with looking into this a bit more? At worst it embarrasses a couple with minor marital issues, but maybe it saves someone from abuse.

Jon
7 years ago
Reply to  AlexTheGreat

To be clear: I’m not saying “what’s the big deal?” about the whole incident. I’m just saying it about your quibble that in her statement, she said she “started to get up” but that’s not apparent from the video. The incident as a whole is troubling in that he’s acting like a 3-year-old (in public no less) showing immaturity and poor judgment on his part.

I honestly don’t know if it’s technically assault. I mean, if you want to be completely technical about it, she stole his property. I’m not sure if the law allows for him to use reasonable force (without the intention to cause harm) to get it back or not.

But I do have a problem with the league punishing him for it, or with people jumping to the “if he does that in public, imagine what he does in private” conclusion. If they want to look into it a little more, that’s fine I guess, though I don’t think it warrants it, any more than me cutting someone off and causing an accident warrants an investigation into whether I intentionally run people over when nobody’s looking.

TulkasMember since 2024
7 years ago
Reply to  AlexTheGreat

Yes, she should have let her husband take the phone that was his property to begin with. That is absolutely what she should have done.

He also shouldn’t have grabbed it so forcefully. They are both wrong. This is a two-sided struggle.

Superstitchin
7 years ago
Reply to  AlexTheGreat

It wasn’t her phone. Are you trying to be dense?

Jon
7 years ago

And Sheryl, with all due respect (and I mean that sincerely, because I truly do love the vast majority of your work here), quoting the sensationalist and downright incorrect (obviously so, I would argue, to anyone who watches the video) SF Chronicle piece (“pulled his wife out of a chair”) is doing your readers a huge disservice.

adohaj
7 years ago

“You can see that video here; we’re not going to embed it due to its disturbing nature. ”

After reading this i expected ray rice or kareem hunt, but instead i got America’s funniest home videos

TKDCMember since 2016
7 years ago
Reply to  adohaj

Only if as she fell her casted foot went up and hit him in the balls. You clearly never watched the show.

marschallin
7 years ago

I watched this, expecting it was a wild over-reaction by over-sensitive snowflakes.

But now I think it’s a little more than that. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying it’s unquestionably domestic violence and Baer is an abuser. You can’t possibly conclude that from the video. I think it’s somewhere in the middle of “accident while wrestling for phone” vs “abuse”.

It looked to me like he wanted the phone at all costs, and really didn’t GAS whether he hurt his wife or not. Which is different from intentionally trying to hurt her, but he’s also using his strength to get what he wants. Which, while that isn’t criminal, it doesn’t say much about his character.

If I saw a guy do that to his wife at say, a PTA meeting, or a soccer practice, I’d be like, “WTF is wrong with you, dude?”

AlexTheGreat
7 years ago
Reply to  marschallin

Yes my thoughts exactly. My point was just that their statements are not accurate to what’s in the video.

corbinburnes
7 years ago

I hope MLB just lets this one go (if the only “physical altercation” is what we saw on the video). While MLB should punish DV, punishing any type of questionable physical altercation between two parties really waters down the punishments that are properly handed down for legitimate DV.

marschallin
7 years ago

What I hope is that MLB investigates this and hands down whatever punishment (or non-punishment) that they would to a player.

It would be a bad look to let the old, rich white guy in a suit get away with behavior that would’ve resulted in fines/suspension if Baer were a player and not part of management.

Jon
7 years ago
Reply to  marschallin

That’s completely fair. I’d be just as outraged if a player received any kind of punishment for doing what Baer did.

averagejoe15Member since 2024
7 years ago
Reply to  Jon

I disagree, I think a player in Baer’s position should receive some kind of minor punishment (think a start or a week’s worth of games) for conducting himself in such a manner. Baer, like a player, is a public figure representing the league, his team, and their fans. His behavior was inappropriate and not aligned with the image and values of the organizations he represents. There should be consequences for that.

Regardless of who is more at fault and whether or not he apologized, if Baer goes unpunished in any tangible way the league is ultimately saying this kind of emotional overreaction and disregard for safety are okay from the figures representing them.

Jon
7 years ago
Reply to  averagejoe15

That’s a fair point. Some kind of punishment for acting like a 3-year-old in public could be reasonable. Though my fear that doing it in under the authority of the league’s domestic violence policy both unfairly tarnishes the player’s reputation, and sets a bad precedent.

So I see it more like a player getting fined or benched a couple games for missing curfew, or, I don’t know – going out, getting drunk, and dancing on the bar – something like that. Or even a manager getting thrown out of the game for throwing his hat or a base or kicking dirt around.

As far as I know, the league doesn’t punish players for stuff like that, but the team does (I could be wrong about that though?) – in any case, that’s what seems appropriate here. In Baer’s case, I guess the equivalent thing would be that the team telling him to stay at home for a week and think about what he did. I’d be cool with that.

jiveballer
7 years ago

Baer should not have apologized. He did not abuse his wife. People need to realize that apologies will not appease people whose career/hobby it is to be outraged at any and every opportunity. If he needed to say anything, leave it at “that was unfortunate and embarrassing, but my wife and I are fine.”

marschallin
7 years ago
Reply to  jiveballer

In this specific case, I don’t feel a public apology was out of line because Baer is management/ownership’s face of the Giants organization.

If you are that “face”, your behavior reflects upon the entire organization. So bad behavior will not only reflect poorly on you, but bring negative attention to the organization/company you represent. Part of the job *is* publicly behaving in a manner that best represents the organization you work for.

Would I like to be subject to that level of scrutiny? No. But that’s not my job, and I’m not getting paid millions to do it. Presumably Baer knew this was part of the job when he accepted it.

And make no mistake, Baer-whatever else you may think of him or this incident-displayed poor judgement in this situation. He brought negative attention to the Giants organization. If one of his players did this, would Baer be like, “No biggie?” Or would be chide the player to be aware of his surroundings? Because everything else aside, the optics on this are terrible.

In that sense-with Baer as the public “face”, I think a public apology can be appropriate in that the public brand was damaged, and the apology expresses regret for the action that did that.

I’m not saying Baer *had* to apologize, just that I can easily see why a public one might be appropriate in this case whereas it might not be for something that happened in private for someone in part of the org away from the public’s eye.

Jon
7 years ago
Reply to  marschallin

Agreed. What he did wasn’t anywhere remotely near assault or domestic violence, but issuing an apology for acting like a 3-year old is completely appropriate (for a CEO or any adult).

marschallin
7 years ago

This kind of reminds me of my kids when they were small. The youngest would often grab one of the oldest’s toys. When the oldest found out, she’d march over and get the toy back by any means necessary. If that meant grabbing it from her brother’s hands and in the process, yanking him out of the stroller and making him fall on the ground, well, too bad, so sad! Guess you shouldn’t have taken the toy!

I had to tell her it wasn’t ok to use your strength against a weaker person to take a toy away, even if it was yours. There was just too much chance of the weaker person being hurt. (Especially if concern #1 is getting the toy back at any cost—you might not notice/care if you hurt someone.)

I told her to let me know and we’d get the toy back safely, but that using her strength to take it away from her bro wasn’t the answer. If it was in his hands, she should ask, but if that didn’t work, she should back off, then come get me to let me know and I’d take care of it.

It took awhile, but she eventually learned the lesson.

The difference between this and what Baer did is that my oldest was 4 at the time, and Baer is 61.

That’s what I see here. A 61 year old man acting like a 4 year old. A fireable offense? A criminal offense? A punishable offense? I dunno.

shawkr
7 years ago
Reply to  marschallin

Yes, I agree.

But it goes both ways. Your youngest also had to learn not to take things that didn’t belong to him. We can’t criticize Larry for being childish and then give Pam a pass, as though it’s okay for a woman to act like a little child just because she’s the “weaker person”.

marschallin
7 years ago
Reply to  shawkr

Sure, from a moral standpoint, I can see the argument that Pam is equally to blame.

But I’m not really trying to parse morality here. The bottom line is that Pam wasn’t the one that took the job to be in the public eye as CEO of the San Francisco Giants. If this was Larry Baer, electrician, doing these actions, we wouldn’t even know about this.

So from a business standpoint, Baer is absolutely more to blame, because he took a job where he has to know better, behave better, and guard his actions. He took a job where his personal life is fodder for public consumption.

So, I think the comparison to my kids is more apt than you’re giving it credit for. Should my son have taken the toy? No, he shouldn’t have. But his sister, as the older sibling who knew more, had the responsibility to act better.

Same here. Pam is not being paid to be the public face for a sports team, so it’s incumbent upon Larry to know better because of his job.

It’s not necessarily a man/woman thing. I’d say the same if the roles were reversed-if Pam was the CEO, and she acted like this toward her spouse in public, then I’d say she acted stupidly and should have known better and I’d give Larry more of a pass.

Kibber
7 years ago

worry about your own house
other people’s matters do not concern you
Namaste

Brownie19
7 years ago

Based on the upvotes and downvotes in these comments – I have a newfound faith in humanity. Thank god for common sense.

MikeMember since 2018
7 years ago

nothing like a bunch of guys (I presume) arguing about what domestic abuse may or may not look like.

shawkr
7 years ago
Reply to  Mike

Pam “confiscated” Larry’s phone and refused to return it.
Larry made to leave twice and both times Pam got angry and insisted he stay. (according to witnesses)
Larry suggested they “go to counseling”. (again, according to witnesses). Pam evidently rejected this idea.

I don’t know about these other guys (I presume) but I, for one, recognize all to well the tactics of an manipulative and emotionally abusive wife.

marschallin
7 years ago
Reply to  shawkr

“I recognize all to (sic) well the tactics of an (sic) manipulative and emotionally abusive wife.”

I recognize all too well the signs of a cheating husband who doesn’t want to take real responsibility for his actions. So, instead of, “I really screwed up and I shouldn’t have cheated,” it’s, “How dare my wife look at my phone and be angry at me!”

See, assumptions are fun!

merizobeach
7 years ago

I hate Rob Manfred and have far less than zero respect for him, but if, here, he were to decree dual death sentences for Larry and Pam, I would despise him less.

evo34Member since 2023
7 years ago

“Ordinarily, these events, unfortunate though they are, wouldn’t be the province of FanGraphs. ”

I find myself pining for more “ordinary” times.

Curacao LL
7 years ago
Reply to  evo34

Those writers have moved on.