Padres Swing Big in Deal for Mason Miller

Dennis Lee-Imagn Images

It was shaping up to be a boring trade deadline day, with the most interesting rental, Eugenio Suárez, already off the board and no huge prospects or stars in play. But the San Diego Padres don’t limit themselves to the guys that everyone knows are on the block. They swung a massive, unexpected deal earlier today, getting Mason Miller and JP Sears from the Athletics in exchange for Leo De Vries, Braden Nett, Henry Baez, and Eduarniel Núñez, as ESPN’s Jeff Passan first reported.

Miller burst onto the scene last year with one of the great relief seasons of the decade. He ramped up his fastball to nuclear velocities, sitting 100-101 mph and topping out above 103 en route to a 41.8% strikeout rate and a 2.49 ERA with peripherals that were even better. He did all that over 65 innings, a career-high workload for the 2021 draft pick. His fastball is a pitch modeler’s dream, all backspin and flat approach angle, and his slider is nearly unhittable for batters thinking “don’t get put on a poster by this fastball” from the minute they step into the box.

Miller’s 2025 encore hasn’t gone quite as well. For relievers not named Mariano Rivera, that tends to be the case. He’s still breathing as much fire as ever, but he’s aiming it a bit less effectively, and his walk rate has ballooned from 8.4% to 11.9%. Oh, don’t get me wrong, he’s still been very effective. Did you miss the part where I said he throws 103 with great shape and mixes in a nasty slider? Of course he’s still been effective. The decline has only been on the margins — ERA estimators in the high 2.00s instead of the low 2.00s, a low strand rate, and bam, suddenly he has a 3.76 ERA instead of a 2.49 mark. His stuff still looks really good, it’s just hard to maintain a two-handle ERA. Those are the numbers you put up when things go right, and 2025 seems more like an average year for Miller.

Do the Padres need that skill set right now? I don’t think so, which is making me go full A Beautiful Mind while I think about the implications of this trade. San Diego’s bullpen is the best in baseball. Closer Robert Suarez and setup man Adrian Morejon have both outperformed Miller in pretty much every metric this year. So has Jeremiah Estrada, whom I had pegged as the team’s closer-in-waiting before this trade. I haven’t even mentioned Jason Adam, who’s on his second straight year of a sub-2.00 ERA. Yes, it’s fun to build the whole bullpen out of closers, but there are diminishing marginal returns at some point. The four guys I’ve already mentioned are the only Padres relievers who have come into the game in spots with a higher-than-average leverage index this year. In other words, they’re already soaking up all the most important times to use good relievers. Miller will probably get the highest-leverage spots now, but that means less tight games for Estrada, Morejon, and Adam.

One possibility that could clear things up a little: The Padres could trade Suarez. Preller is no stranger to buying and selling at the same time, and Suarez can opt out of his deal after this year. Given the prices flying around for relievers at the moment, and particularly given that Preller himself has raised the ante with this trade, Suarez could fetch an attractive prospect return later today. Heck, so could Morejon or Adam if the Padres want to retain Suarez and trade a lower-leverage guy with an extra year of team control.

This is speculative, of course. I’m just trying to figure out why the team that perhaps least needed a great closer went out and got a guy so good that it wasn’t even clear he was on the market. That’s the most likely reason for me, but let’s try a few others on for size before getting to the return. Heck, we haven’t even talked about the other player San Diego got yet. That would be Sears, and that brings me to my next theory: The Padres really just need starters.

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The left-handed Sears went from the Yankees to the A’s as one of the key parts of the Frankie Montas trade in 2022. He’s been a fifth-starter type ever since, with ERAs in the mid-4.00s in the Oakland Coliseum before this season and the high 4.00s in launching-pad Sacramento. He’s a fly ball pitcher with plus command and fringy stuff, an absolute nightmare in a hitter’s ballpark. He’s sneaky old for a guy who didn’t graduate from prospect status all that long ago – he’ll turn 30 this winter – but won’t hit free agency until after the 2028 season. Even if you don’t know Sears specifically, you can probably picture a guy like him on your favorite team. He absolutely deserves a major league roster spot, and you’d much rather see him take the mound than some of the other options your team has thrown out there this year, but you probably wouldn’t want him starting a playoff game.

The Padres also definitely don’t want Sears to start a playoff game. They have Nick Pivetta, Dylan Cease, Yu Darvish, and Michael King (slated for a rehab start this weekend) for that. But right now, Sears is their fifth starter, and adding him enabled them to trade two other starting pitchers, Stephen Kolek and Ryan Bergert, in a separate trade.

There’s even a chance they could use Miller as a starter, as Dennis Lin and Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic reported last night. If you’re into chess notation, I give that option a “?!”. Maybe it’s a good move. Maybe it’s an awful one. It’s certainly an unexpected option. We’re talking about a guy who lives off of his explosive, triple-digit fastball and throws only two pitches. Miller was developed as a starter, but only kind of; his largest workload before converting to relieving was 52 2/3 innings across four levels in 2023. His delivery is so sudden and violent that he dealt with injuries throughout his tenure as a starter: a scapula strain in 2022 and a UCL strain in 2023.

The unknowns don’t stop there. He’s great with two pitches. His third and fourth offerings are less polished. He’s running a 12% walk rate in short stints. This isn’t your usual starter conversion package. But after Garrett Crochet’s successful transition from lights-out reliever with injury issues to one of the best starters in baseball, and given Miller’s hulking build, I can see why the Padres might at least be willing to consider him for a starter’s role. I don’t think it’s very likely to stick. I certainly don’t think it’s going to happen this year. But given how valuable starters are and how impermanent reliever performance seems to be, I don’t hate that they’re going to take a look.

That’s the San Diego side of the trade. The Athletics’ return for Miller and Sears contains both quality and quantity. The headliner is Leo De Vries, either San Diego’s best or second-best prospect depending on how you feel about the injured Ethan Salas. De Vries is an 18-year-old switch-hitting shortstop who was the top signing of the 2024 international class. As is customary for San Diego’s top minor leaguers, he was dealing with a tremendously aggressive assignment: High-A Fort Wayne, where he was 4 1/2 years younger than the average player. He more than held his own there, walking almost as often as he struck out and displaying gap-to-gap power.

We have him graded as a 50 FV, right on the borderline of 55 FV, but other outlets have him squarely in that higher tier. Our prospect team sees him as more polished than toolsy, with already-mature skills and a precocious feel to hit. He’s more comfortable batting lefty than righty at the moment, to the point that he briefly stopped switch-hitting in 2024, but he’s back to doing both again and looks good from each side.

There’s a ton of projection here, of course. We’re talking about an 18-year-old who only started playing professional baseball in 2024. I’m excited about De Vries not for his raw performance but for the fact that he’s doing it in full-season A-ball despite his age. That means the next few years are key; the range of outcomes is massive and the trajectory is both uncertain and important. In two years, we’ll probably feel very differently about De Vries than we do now. His ceiling is certainly high, though, as it would be for any 18-year-old hitting better than league average at such an advanced level. He even plays shortstop, though whether he’ll stick there as he gains strength is an open question.

De Vries is the unquestioned headliner, but the A’s got three other minor leaguers in the deal, and all of them are intriguing. Nett is the best of the trio, a 40+ FV starter working in Double-A at age 23. He throws hard and has continually improved his command since signing with the Padres as an undrafted free agent in 2022. His 10.4% walk rate is easily the best of his career, and he’s missing a ton of bats with an upper-90s fastball plus an array of solid secondaries. With strike throwing the prime directive at the moment, Nett has shelved his slider in recent months, instead mixing in a cutter, curveball, and changeup. I’m not sure whether he’ll be a starter or a reliever once he’s a finished product, but I think he could be pretty good in either role; he has the raw stuff to excel as a short-stint reliever, but his development arc thus far gives me hope that he’ll keep refining his pitchability and secondary stuff over time, enough to remain in the rotation. We have him graded as a multi-inning reliever at the moment, but with considerable volatility around that.

Baez projects as a fifth starter, and I actually think he’ll debut soon; he’s already on a 40-man roster and the A’s could use some pitching. He looks like a depth piece both to me and the prospect team, with a bunch of average pitches and decent but unspectacular command. He doesn’t miss many bats, but he doesn’t walk many batters either, and he gets a ton of grounders. For now, he’s probably no more than an up-and-down pitching option, but he has so many peripheral skills that he could raise his ceiling a bit if his stuff takes a step forward. I’d be interested in seeing him in the majors this year, even if he’s probably not quite ready. Depending on how the rest of the roster shakes out, Baez could be at risk of getting outrighted off the 40-man this winter, but that’s why the A’s should give him a look before they have to make that decision.

The last player in the deal, Núñez, had a cup of coffee in San Diego at the start of the month and is back in Triple-A. He has ludicrous stuff and subpar command of it. His minor league swinging strike rates jump off the page, but unfortunately so do his walks. If he could repeat his delivery more consistently, he’d be wild but unhittable in the big leagues. During his brief time in the majors, our pitching models said exactly the same thing: elite stuff, some of the worst command in the sport. He sits 97-98 with his fastball and drops in two different hard breaking balls. His curveball is mid-80s with big two-plane movement. Eric Longenhagen noted that the A’s have done a better job with pitching development of late and that a change of scenery can sometimes unlock consistency gains, but Núñez seems to be the least consequential of the five players involved.

The easier side of this trade to grade, at least to me, is the nomadic Athletics one. They’re going nowhere this year, but they have a fun young core to build around. They turned an exciting reliever from their current squad into a haul of prospects that features a potential future star. If I were running a major league team and not currently in playoff contention, I’d be looking to trade as many of my good relievers as possible. You need a good bullpen to succeed in the majors, but it’s extremely difficult to know which relievers will be good in two years. I’d prefer to figure that out as I go by building a deep farm system, signing free agents, and making trades as necessary rather than relying on a singular ace closer. In other words, I’d be looking to trade Mason Miller for Leo De Vries.

Yes, Miller is currently great, but as my colleague Michael Baumann is always pointing out, team control of relievers is often fool’s gold. The half life of an effective reliever is short. The top five relievers of 2023 were Tanner Scott, Félix Bautista, David Bednar, Matt Brash, and Camilo Doval. Bednar is the only member of that group who has been both healthy and effective this year – and he was below replacement level in 2024! That’s a particularly unsuccessful comparison group, but “don’t bet on relievers staying good for multiple seasons” is just smart business. Don’t do it! It won’t pay off!

The Padres might not care about that much, though. For one thing, they value the present a ton more than the A’s do. They’re in a playoff race right this instant and are looking to make a deep postseason run, and while Miller’s value in 2027 and beyond is hard to pin down, he is incredibly valuable this year. He’s one of the best relievers in baseball! Perhaps the Padres have more high-leverage relievers than there are high-leverage innings to cover on a given night in the regular season, but that’s irrelevant to this trade. Rather, the final innings of every Padres playoff game will feature closer after closer after closer after closer.

This is very much a live for the moment trade. San Diego might be underwater before De Vries ever makes his major league debut. He might never make a major league debut! Prospects are volatile. Meanwhile, the Padres are good this year, and their best players are in their primes. Think of it this way: If the Padres had paid $4 million, De Vries’ reported signing bonus, for the rights to Miller last year, we’d all agree that was a coup. This isn’t quite the same, but it’s surely at least a little bit similar.

I reserve the right to adjust how I feel about this deal based on what follows. I think that Preller has another trade or two up his sleeve. Maybe the increased price of relief pitchers – hey, did you hear the A’s got a top-25 prospect for a closer?! – will lead to a Suarez deal. Until the deadline music stops, you can’t look at the Padres as a finished product. That’s not how they operate.

I’ll give them a B for now, but with huge error bars. I don’t like this trade at face value. The Padres are giving up a ton to add at the position where they’re already deepest. I like it a bit more based on what trades they might still make. I like it a bit more based on some small chance of turning Miller into a starter in the future. I like it a bit more because they’re in a win-now window and probably don’t need an 18-year-old shortstop anytime soon, though De Vries was a key trade chip that plenty of other teams probably would have wanted. I’m not sure this is the best the Padres could have gotten for him. Even so, this team is better now than it was this morning — and deadline day is a lot more fun because of it.





Ben is a writer at FanGraphs. He can be found on Bluesky @benclemens.

84 Comments
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cashgod27Member since 2024
11 months ago

I know we say this every deadline, but I think AJ Preller has lost his mind.

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
11 months ago
Reply to  cashgod27

I mean, would you trade Age-18 Gleyber Torres for Year 2 Aroldis Chapman?

96mncMember since 2020
11 months ago

If it’s the final piece to an otherwise clear World Series winning caliber roster sure. Otherwise nope.

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
11 months ago
Reply to  96mnc

A) What’s a “clear World Series winning caliber roster,” these days?

The Padres are within 3 games of everyone other than the Brewers…whom I don’t exactly view as a world-beater.

B) “Year 2” part is an important part of that hypothetical – they’re potentially getting five playoff runs of Miller, not one like the Cubs received.

96mncMember since 2020
11 months ago

That Cubs team had everything you needed to be the WS favorite except for a dominant closer. A young cost controlled dominant lineup, SP, etc.

This Padres team isn’t anywhere near that complete. The Padres success really hinges on how healthy and effective King and Yu are down the stretch and whether Cease figures out how not to suck from the stretch.

Their BP was already an asset. There were other ways to add another dominant bullpen arm (even 2) without giving up DeVries.

thaaldermanMember since 2024
11 months ago
Reply to  96mnc

Yep. Just to illustrate how mind-bendingly insane this move is, here’s where the Padres’ offense, defense, rotation, and bullpen rank in MLB by total WAR (or Def Runs)

Offense: 16th

Defense: 18th

Rotation: 13th

Bullpen: 1st

Preller is a guy with an underwater mortgage, leaky roof, and three kids in college who hits the lottery and spends the money on a Lamborghini even though he already drives a Porsche.

96mncMember since 2020
11 months ago
Reply to  thaalderman

I actually like the idea of making your bullpen strength even better/deeper as it’ll help the rotation. But not the way they did it.

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
11 months ago
Reply to  96mnc

…and which of these hypothetical available bullpen arms would be under team control through 2029?

You keep skipping that part.

96mncMember since 2020
11 months ago

The additional years of control would mean nothing to me at this point in time. Not for a reliever with the health history of Miller. And not for DeVries. Address the bullpen for 2026 and onwards this offseason.

If we’re talking SP or hitter? Different story.

For the record I think Varland has multiple years of control left. Adams did too last year when Preller bought him (a move I liked even with the cost but that cost wasn’t this high).

Last edited 11 months ago by 96mnc
thaaldermanMember since 2024
11 months ago

A roster that wins the World Series, lol.

That’s the only way you can ever justify trading an elite prospect for a reliever. Even if De Vries never amounts to anything, the missed opportunity cost of cashing him in for a guy who throws 75 innings a season maximum is absolutely enormous – especially when you factor in that the Padres’ bullpen already has the best ERA/FIP and most WAR in MLB.

This is why, as a White Sox fan, I absolutely despised the Madrigal for Kimbrel trade in 2021, even though I never liked Madrigal in the first place. If you’re going to exchange De Vries’s future value for present value, why on earth would you choose to do it at the least impactful position on the roster – where you’re already stacked – instead of upgrading your decidedly middling offense or rotation?

I can’t believe nobody stopped Preller from doing this. The Padres basically have to turn Miller into a frontline starter now, but that’s a very uncertain proposition, and they probably should have just offered De Vries to the White Sox for Crochet last offseason, or Salas + to the Marlins for Cabrera or Alcantara instead.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
11 months ago

I can’t tell if you think Torres or Chapman is better.

I think this would actually a pretty spirited debate, I’d lean Chapman in retrospect.

But knowing what we know about velocity and arm injuries? And without knowing that Chapman would have a borderline Hall of Fame peak for a reliever during his team control years?

EDIT: I had “IDK” here, but really, the difference is that Aroldis Chapman is built like a tank and had nowhere near the same health history as Mason Miller. That’s the big difference. And I can’t in good conscience trade away De Vries for Miller because of that. And I don’t think I would do it for Chapman either because of the velocity and that’s a huge risk factor, but I can at least see the other side.

Last edited 11 months ago by sadtrombone
Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
11 months ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

During their respective years of team control, I’d definitely lean Chapman.

14 fWAR, 13.7 RA9-WAR, 84 RE24.

If I were the As, I’d want teenaged Torres.

If I were the Padres, I’d want Y2 Chapman.

thaaldermanMember since 2024
11 months ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Chapman is also a plus athlete with a singularly easy delivery for someone who throws as hard as he does. There’s a reason he’s 37 years old and still hitting 104 with close to zero injury history. The guy is a mutant.

Miller, on the other hand, appears very tightly wound and has a delivery that looks like a steam pipe exploding.

thaaldermanMember since 2024
11 months ago
Reply to  cashgod27

Preller just single-handedly inflated the cost of buying upgrades for the next half-decade. Price of the (prospect) brick going up, lol.

This deal is absolutely fucking insane regardless, but there’s no way the Padres don’t try to convert Miller back to a starter next year, right?

96mncMember since 2020
11 months ago
Reply to  thaalderman

I hope they don’t move Miller to the rotation. For both his sake and as a baseball fan in general.

But given what Varland and Doval went for after the Miller deal i don’t think it mattered.

dontcare
11 months ago
Reply to  96mnc

I thought Varland was a pretty good return, Doval is the one that still seems a bit light, but not terribly so if you compare it to last year’s Adam deal. I think the Rogers return from the Mets overshadowed the Doval return; I think the former was an overpay (though not obscene) rather than the latter an underpay.

JimmieFoxxalorianMember since 2020
11 months ago

Nothing AJ Preller does this time of year should surprise anyone. But my goodness! With a bold snap of Preller’s fingers, it’s suddenly Millertime in San Diego

Last edited 11 months ago by JimmieFoxxalorian
David Klein
11 months ago

I think Preller is probably around a middle of the pack gm but from an entertainment standpoint he’s number one. This has been a top tier deadline for baseball with all the big names being traded including Correa just now. I don’t say this often but I think the A’s did well in this trade.

SertoriusMember since 2023
11 months ago
Reply to  David Klein

Dipoto has him on quantity of moves but nobody has anything on Preller for moving huge names.

achidesterMember since 2020
11 months ago
Reply to  David Klein

I might be higher on Preller. The dev machine in San Diego is impressive, he’s constantly looking to aggressively bolster the roster, and he’s going toe-to-toe with the big bad of the entire league at the moment.

96mncMember since 2020
11 months ago
Reply to  achidester

Preller and his scouting department are insanely good.

Last edited 11 months ago by 96mnc
sadtromboneMember since 2020
11 months ago
Reply to  David Klein

Preller is amazing on the amateur scouting side but development has been a problem. But then, who needs development when you trade all your prospects for veterans?

96mncMember since 2020
11 months ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

To your point-

I had a brief conversation years ago with Don Welke who was a longtime baseball scout (was with Trader Pat Gillick in Toronto) and was Preller’s mentor. Shortly after they traded away Fried and Turner in the crazy early Preller days he said (paraphrasing), “We don’t care about trading prospects. We know we can find more.”

That pretty much sums up the Preller regime. Scout and find amateur talent that becomes highly valued and then trade it away lol.

Last edited 11 months ago by 96mnc
Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
11 months ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Of course…treating Suarez and Kim as fully formed on arrival, how many teams have “development” stories as good as Tatis and Merrill?

Hell, Cronenworth and Estrada were both marginal pickups, as well – and they transformed Musgrove’s approach.

grandbranyanMember since 2017
11 months ago

“The top five relievers of 2023 were Tanner ScottFélix BautistaDavid BednarMatt Brash, and Camilo Doval.”

Brash (2.0) and Doval (1.9) were 4th and 5th in fWAR, but I’m not sure that makes them top five relievers in 2023.

Brash’s 1.3 rWAR was 36th of 162 qualified relivers in 2023 and his +0.50 WPA was 71st.

Doval wasn’t much better moving beyond fWAR with only 0.6 rWAR (85th) and +1.18 WPA (43rd).

Kind of hard to leave Devin Williams out of the Top Five relievers of 2023 with 2.9 rWAR (2nd), 1.8 fWAR (6th), and +4.09 WPA (4th).

JimmyMember since 2019
11 months ago
Reply to  grandbranyan

I mean, looking at rWAR and WPA for relievers is likely going to be even noisier than fWAR. The top 5 relievers in 2023 by RA9-WAR (easier to search and same idea at least) were Tanner Scott, Felix Bautista, Devin Williams, Yennier Cano, and Chris Martin. So two of the same names, plus Williams (righted the ship but ERA is still 5 and he’s at -0.2 rWAR), Cano has been awful by any metric but especially bWAR, and hey at least Martin is good still. By WPA the top 5 were Scott, Bautista, Alexis Diaz (complete collapse), Williams, and Martin.

All in all, I don’t really understand your point. Ben’s just saying relievers are incredibly volatile, and by any of these metrics they are.

Last edited 11 months ago by Jimmy
Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
11 months ago
Reply to  Jimmy

I mean, we should only be using RE24 for relievers, because it’s the only stat that measures their success in stranding inherited runners.

In 2023, it was Martin, Scott, Holton, Bautista, Neris.

This year, it’s Morejon, Chapman, Vasil, Santana, Randy Rodriguez.

Last edited 11 months ago by Cool Lester Smooth
JimmyMember since 2019
11 months ago

Okay, then that still proves the same point though.

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
11 months ago
Reply to  Jimmy

Oh, for sure.

I just think fWAR’s insistence that performance with men on base has absolutely no relation to a pitcher’s value is hilariously unsuited for relievers.

JimmyMember since 2019
11 months ago

Most definitely. If I remember correctly, bbref’s WAR (and ERA to be fair) has an inverse issue for starters, in that a starter who leaves two runners on who don’t score gets tagged with those runs while he does not if they don’t. You’d think you’d just charge them some kind of average run value from the base state. (It’s possible that they do this, but I don’t believe so.)

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
11 months ago
Reply to  Jimmy

And this is why I have a spreadsheet adding Statcast Pitcher Run Value to Replacement Level, ahaha

OddBall Herrera
11 months ago

I’m torn on this. You could chart value vs team control for closer deals this deadline from Duran/Helsley (2026) -> Bednar (2027) -> Miller (2030) and squint at the graph and it may look pretty linear.

But I think for relievers long term team control may be overrated, because the reliever who is as valuable five years from now as he is today is a unicorn. You just don’t see many guys who have sustained success in the bullpen that long. If I’m a Padres fan, I would much rather have Duran for only 1.5 years, with the value given up for him, than have Miller for 5 years on this deal.

Last edited 11 months ago by OddBall Herrera
96mncMember since 2020
11 months ago

RPs are the most volatile mlb assst there is. As you said the dudes that can do it for 5 years straight with little drop off in performance are unicorns and likely HOFers.

Shalesh
11 months ago
Reply to  96mnc

Not Closers. Duran, Clase, Diaz, Jansen, Chapman, Hendricks, Kimbrel, Raisel Iglesias, Hader, and several more have had good 4+ year runs over the last decade. (I’d say 5 years, but I’m including Duran.) And after the top 3 starters and your 5+ win batters, they’re the next most essential player on a playoff team.

I think De Vries is too little for Miller if he is a 50 as Longenhagen thinks he is and still too little if he is a 55. Maybe he wouldn’t get 5/$95M like Hader or 5/$102M like Diaz, but Miller would easily get 5/$85M. I think getting the next 4 years of Miller for something like $35M through arbitration is a huge bargain.

Some outlets though have De Vries as a top-5 prospect in the sport, which would make him an FV60. That would make a De Vries for Miller swap fair for me.

96mncMember since 2020
11 months ago
Reply to  Shalesh

I appreciate the discussion and differing viewpoint.

However, RPs pop up every year and are available at the deadline every year. Even elite ones. That Miller is under contract for four more years isn’t enough for me to make me want to buy him now.

There’s no need to commit an asset to acquiring a Miller at a 50 FV or 60 FV cost unless he’s truly the final missing piece (Chapman for Torres).

The Padres under Preller have repeatedly demonstrated the ability to find elite RPs out of nowhere like Bell, Suarez, and Yates. That’s a competitive advantage that they could leverage this offseason again.

Simply for the rest of 2025 does the difference in performance of Miller to say Stewart justify the difference in acquisition cost?

Shalesh
11 months ago
Reply to  96mnc

You’re focused on 2025 value and value to the Padres who already have a stacked bullpen and I agree with you.

I’m focused more on the value of Closers and how they’re not another volatile reliever, they’re the very best relievers who are consistent year-in, year-out. And then Mason Miller’s value in particular as he’s one of the best current examplars of a Closer.

96mncMember since 2020
11 months ago
Reply to  Shalesh

Miller has a track record of 1.5 years after years of arm issues. Durability and consistency sets the guys you mentioned apart from the crowd and that’s partially done in hindsight. I’m not going to bet that Miller has that level of durability, at least not at the cost of DeVries.

I don’t look at it as “Closers” as much as I look at is as relief pitchers period.

cowdiscipleMember since 2016
11 months ago

Duran isn’t a free agent until 2028, no? I think he’s got 2.5 years left.

Last edited 11 months ago by cowdisciple
OddBall Herrera
11 months ago
Reply to  cowdisciple

God you’re right. And I thought I couldn’t dislike that trade more than I did

cowdiscipleMember since 2016
11 months ago

You didn’t like Griffin Jax, right? Me either. Is it too late to contract this team?

OddBall Herrera
11 months ago
Reply to  cowdisciple

Ugh, why not load up on another pitcher who “should be better, given his stuff”, but who keeps getting hit hard? That’s apparently the Twins’ type….

sadtromboneMember since 2020
11 months ago

The real problem is that the Padres don’t have any mid-tier prospects unless you’re down on Ethan Salas (like me).

But yes, in terms of which deal you would want if you were the acquiring team, I would absolutely prefer, in order:
DuranHelsleyBednarMiller
And I think I’m fairly clear on that order, with the largest gap being between #3 and #4.

Last edited 11 months ago by sadtrombone
tbwhite67Member since 2020
11 months ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Looking at their FG Top 10, I think they still have 7 of them after all of today’s trades.

96mncMember since 2020
11 months ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Going further, for this Padres team in particular I’d add Varland Jax Coulombe Doval as rps that would have benefited them at a lesser cost.

jayman4Member since 2018
11 months ago

Preller seems to know he has a window and every year that his team is plausibly a playoff contender, he is going to buttress that window the best he can. While everyone is aging, Machado, Bogaerts, Cronenworth are starting their slide into their 30s. Tatis and Merrill give a bit of youth but this team was built win before Seidler died, especially the Nationals/Soto trade. But the after effect of that win now is expensive, still good, but aging core of players. As a Padres fan, fearful of what this team can do when the said group hits their mid-30s.

Other trades may come but even without them, they might hope Johnson is serviceable in LF, the catchers are occasionally good, they have a decent starters and can roll out dominant closers. Not perfectly analogous but worked for LA last year.

OddBall Herrera
11 months ago
Reply to  jayman4

SD does feel like they’re approaching the post 2011 Phillies state, where they risk re-upping on a closing championship window a couple times too often and spending a good part of a decade wandering in the desert as a result.

96mncMember since 2020
11 months ago

In about 2 years when Manny and Xander are really into their mid 30s they are going to be in huge trouble.

96mncMember since 2020
11 months ago
Reply to  jayman4

Assuming they keep Suarez that’s a truly dominant bullpen and turns games into 5 inning affairs. But they could have been achieved without the price they paid right now.

tbwhite67Member since 2020
11 months ago
Reply to  96mnc

In the playoffs no opposing batter will see a Padre pitcher for a 3rd time in a game. By the 5th, they be trotting out the Four Horseman and then it’s Miller Time.

96mncMember since 2020
11 months ago

In no universe am I trading a top hitting prospect for a elite RP and a SP4/5. I don’t care how much control they have left. Not in this market where Stewart and Coloumbe are going for as cheap as they are. It’s just a waste of an asset.

And SD is crazy if they even consider moving Miller into the rotation next year. He physically can’t hold up in that role.

Preller is a brilliant amateur and low level scout and also kills it on the margins of buying low on MLB talent (Profar last year, Sheets this year) but when it comes to asset deployment both of trading prospects in season and deciding when and who to give big money extensions to he’s awful.

Edited to add that waiting to see if there’s a part 2 or 3 in which Cease and/or Suarez get moved obviously matters some…but it better net a cost controlled quality MLB bat.

Last edited 11 months ago by 96mnc
achidesterMember since 2020
11 months ago
Reply to  96mnc

O’Hearn and Laureano is a massive swing.

96mncMember since 2020
11 months ago
Reply to  achidester

I like those acquisitions. But those could have been done without the prior trade.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
11 months ago
Reply to  96mnc

I would just not trade Leo De Vries for anyone with Miller’s health history and the fact that he throws a million miles an hour.

I just wouldn’t. I don’t care if Miller has a million years of team control.

I don’t care that De Vries won’t be ready for another 2-4 years. I can trade him for a starter. Or a controlled bat.

Thatguy47
11 months ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Well he did that for JP Sears. Best of both worlds.

96mncMember since 2020
11 months ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Pretty much THIS ^^^.

michaelmoore
11 months ago

Tigers don’t care. I’m becoming a Yankee and padres fan

cowdiscipleMember since 2016
11 months ago
Reply to  michaelmoore

Lol. I’m thinking about becoming a Tigers fan.

jamesnewburgMember since 2024
11 months ago

If the Padres had paid $4 million, De Vries’ reported signing bonus, for the rights to Miller last year, we’d all agree that was a coup. This isn’t quite the same, but it’s surely at least a little bit similar.

Wasn’t that basically the reasoning Dave Stewart gave for trading Dansby Swanson for Shelby Miller?

sadtromboneMember since 2020
11 months ago
Reply to  Ben Clemens

I completely forgot about that. He was so bad.

tbwhite67Member since 2020
11 months ago

It was just 2022 when the Padres traded away an 18yo SS from the DR who had been the #1 International signing a year before, and was hitting OK in the Arizona Complex League. Of course we all know the greatness of Victor Acosta…

96mncMember since 2020
11 months ago
Reply to  tbwhite67

All due respect Acosta hadn’t become a top 21 to top 5 prospects at that point.

Last edited 11 months ago by 96mnc
tbwhite67Member since 2020
11 months ago
Reply to  96mnc

Sure. But 2 years ago Ethan Salas was Leo DeVries and now he is a AA catcher with a bad back. Life comes at you fast.

Me, I’m still waiting for the Adalberto Mondesi break out year.

96mncMember since 2020
11 months ago
Reply to  tbwhite67

And 2 years ago I would have been open to trading Salas. Heck, today I would have been open to trading DeVries. But not for a relief pitcher.

Thatguy47
11 months ago

I don’t think this trade is that bad for the Padres. I’m not that high on Leo De Vries and not that familiar with the other prospects (or with De Vries in comparison to lots of other people), but I like JP Sears a lot as a breakout candidate. Think he could emerge as a midrotation guy with some tweaks. Not sure about the Padres’ stacked bullpen and how that impacts Miller’s value but he’s an impressive pitcher. I’m interested in his starer potential. You touched on it but he was graded as having 3 plus pitches as a prospect, with a 60 grade changeup that he’s barely used in the majors. Not sure what’s changed there.

With that being said, I’m disappointed to learn that they traded Bergert, which I missed, and who’s one of my favorite pitching prospects and another breakout guy. Especially for Freddy Fermin, who’s not very good IMO, and with Cease an impending free agent and Darvish and King injured this season. Maybe the worst trade of the deadline honestly. I guess their catching is really bad but multiple comparable or better catchers have been traded for less and they went into the season with a black hole at the position having let Higashioka walk for very little.

96mncMember since 2020
11 months ago
Reply to  Thatguy47

I think Fermin is a solid overall catcher.

Due to his delivery Miller won’t hold up as a SP. They shouldn’t even consider it.

Thatguy47
11 months ago
Reply to  96mnc

What exactly is the concern with Miller? Looks like he has some UCL and elbow stuff and the scapula strain. Is that a big deal? Daniel Espino just got wrecked by back to back to back major shoulder injuries which is the worst thing for a pitching prospect. I don’t really see the comparison. Also this isn’t super scientific but Espino was smaller and had a slighter build, whereas Miller has a prototypical starter’s build. And Miller’s pitch shapes are so good that he could probably excel while dialing back the velocity a bit, similarly to DeGrom, which could help his durability.

96mncMember since 2020
11 months ago
Reply to  Thatguy47

It’s his mechanics/delivery that causes those physical issues (both shoulder and elbow) when placed under the strain of a starters workload.

Jasper FranciscoMember since 2017
11 months ago

Excellent analysis as always Ben!

TKDCMember since 2016
11 months ago

“If the Padres had paid $4 million, De Vries’ reported signing bonus, for the rights to Miller last year, we’d all agree that was a coup. This isn’t quite the same, but it’s surely at least a little bit similar.“

Quoting from Fangraphs ten years ago, regarding the DBacks essentially selling Touki Toussaint for $10m:

“ Stewart suggested that Toussaint’s value was equal to his salary (technically his bonus). This is comically wrong. Even if you don’t like Toussaint as a prospect, there is no argument to be made that he is worth exactly his slot value in a trade.

For one, that supposes that a player’s value is defined by an arbitrary financial structure that has nothing to do with the individual involved. The slot values are set by the league and aren’t tied to the players who are drafted there. If a Mike Trout-caliber prospect was taken 1-1 this year and a Trevor Bauer-caliber prospect was taken 1-1 the next year, no one would suggest those players are equally valuable just because they would have similar slot values.

Second, Stewart’s comments suggest a lack of understanding of the economics of the game. Young players’ compensation is artificially held down by the CBA.”

I know you have a huge caveat in your claim, but it still just seems so far off as to make the comparison useless, at least to me.

The Padres either know something others don’t about their prospect (Preller’s track record makes this dubious), they have a lot of faith in turning Miller into an effective starter, or Preller is just off his rocker.

ETA: I did not see that I wasn’t the first to see this similarity.

Last edited 11 months ago by TKDC
tbwhite67Member since 2020
11 months ago
Reply to  TKDC

Why do you say that about Preller’s track record? Acosta busted. Looks like Hassell is a bust. Luis Patino busted, Luis Urias busted. Xavier Edwards, Esteury Ruiz. When you trade that many top prospects, some will pan out.

TKDCMember since 2016
11 months ago
Reply to  tbwhite67

The overall record of all prospects traded suggests that teams know more than prospectors. Most are really good at avoiding trading future stars. Preller traded the three Washington guys, Bednar, Trea Turner, Max Fried, and several other useful big league players.

He did also trade for Tatis which cancels a lot of that out, but what other GM has traded three prospects as good as Turner, Fried, and Wood, in recent history?

tbwhite67Member since 2020
11 months ago
Reply to  TKDC

He also got back Musgrove, Soto(which begat King, Cease and Vasquez), Darvish, Hader, Snell. Yes, he has traded away prospects who have turned into stars, but that is inevitable when you trade away as many as he has. Look at Baltimore, they have done what the AJ haters wanted Preller to do, and where has it gotten them? Holding on to a prospect who busts is probably as detrimental as trading away one who pans out.

96mncMember since 2020
11 months ago
Reply to  tbwhite67

Trea Turner sure didn’t bust. And the industry wide consensus on Turner is much closer to DeVries than the players you mentioned at the time they were dealt.

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
11 months ago
Reply to  TKDC

One thing that’s popped up from both Eric and Law is that there’s a good chance LDV isn’t a shortstop.

TKDCMember since 2016
11 months ago

Yeah, I honestly don’t know anything about him other than that BA has him like 5th or 6th and he was traded for a relief pitcher. Even though that relief pitcher is really good, it’s just hard to conceptualize trading a legit stud prospect for a relief pitcher as a good idea, no matter how much you squint, in my opinion.

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
11 months ago
Reply to  TKDC

Oh, for sure!

Law has him 13th with an “I’ve heard from multiple people that he’s looked bad at shortstop. If so, he should be in the 20-25 range” caveat in his trade writeup.

Eric has him 21st with “I’ve heard some people think he sticks at SS. If so, he should be 11th.”

But yeah, a lot of it depends on whether Miller stays healthy.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
11 months ago

Most of this is about the Padres and how ridiculous it was, but I kind of feel like we need a round of applause for the Athletics.

Last year we tore into them for not trading Mason Miller.

And this year they traded him and a starter who is a total disaster pitching in that home park for (arguably) an FV55, two interesting relief prospects, and a ground-ball specialist starter-type (who seems to be pitching quite well right now and might outperform the scouting consensus).

Sometimes we forget that some of these guys in the A’s front office are pretty good. Even though ownership has starved the front office of resources, both for analytics / scouting and spending on players, and placed the players in an impossible situation for at least a couple of years with the park nonsense, this team has a really strong position player core, and De Vries could be a really impressive addition to that group.

96mncMember since 2020
11 months ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Excellent point and yes, the Athletics should be congratulated on making this deal.

dontcare
11 months ago

Hate hate hate hate this deal. I would’ve LOVED any combo of Nett/Baez/Nunez for Sears. He’s durable, has an average K-rate, and has great control; seems like a bread-and-butter Niebla fixer-upper. De Vries for Miller is a joke unless they win the Series. Completely unnecessary move and gave away a guy who’ll probably be an everyday starter come ’27. Way too much injury/volatility risk.

Last edited 11 months ago by dontcare
96mncMember since 2020
11 months ago
Reply to  dontcare

Happy to see you mention Niebla. He’s a fantastic pitching coach.

I wanted to see SD buy low on Taj Bradley just to see what Ruben would do with him.

dontcare
11 months ago
Reply to  96mnc

Bradley would’ve been a great get; I thought Minny did really good in that trade.

Last edited 11 months ago by dontcare
jdbolickMember since 2024
11 months ago

I definitely think that Crochet’s success this season convinced Preller to take a chance on converting Miller back to starting. It’s such a massive risk that I can’t help but admire the aggression. It will be interesting to see if it pays off.

I don’t mind him giving up De Vries, who is about as safe a prospect as any 18 year old can be but lacks superstar upside. I just don’t see him ever developing enough power or defensive value to be elite.

wingedbeater
11 months ago

Relievers are inconsistent and their stats are prone to mislead because of sample sizes, but it is sort of odd that Miller’s incredible fastball, which he uses over half the time, has been a negative run value pitch this year. Stuff+ is roughly what it was last year, so maybe nothing to worry about, I guess.