Steven Kwan, Geraldo Perdomo, and the Victor Robles Problem

Sorry, but this is going to be kind of a bummer. Our topic today is the crushing weight of statistical determinism. In researching this article, I learned something that increased my knowledge but also decreased my sense of the possible, and it made me a little bit sad. I would now like to share my sadness with you. We’re going to be studying the Victor Robles Problem.
You might not remember the days when Victor Robles was a star prospect. After short, impressive stints in 2017 and ’18, he had a breakout season in 2019, putting up a 92 wRC+ and 3.5 WAR, and finishing sixth in NL Rookie of the Year voting. ZiPS projected him for 3.3 WAR in 2020. If he could take the next step offensively, he’d be a star; if his offense remained just a bit below average, he’d still be a very productive center fielder. Instead, he turned in three straight seasons with a wRC+ under 70. Here are the Statcast gearboxes for his rookie season and 2022:

There’s a whole lot of blue in the top two rows. Plate discipline was the concern when Robles was first called up, and that was certainly an issue, but the lack of power stands out much more. Although his max exit velocity indicates that he has the capacity to hit the ball hard, Robles’ average exit velocity has been in the first percentile in each of his big league seasons, and his hard-hit rate has never been better than fifth percentile. The Victor Robles Problem is a question: Can a player who didn’t hit the ball hard as a rookie ever turn into a good hitter?
Here’s a quick refresher on why hitting the ball hard is a good thing. There have been 620 players with at least 400 balls in play in the Statcast era. They’re bucketed in the table below by their average exit velocity (EV) in increments of 1 mph. The first line shows average wRC+, and the second line shows the percentage of players with a wRC+ of 100 or higher”
| Metric | <84 | 84 | 85 | 86 | 87 | 88 | 89 | 90 | 91 | ≥92 |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Average wRC+ | 71 | 77 | 86 | 85 | 92 | 97 | 105 | 108 | 119 | 131 |
| wRC+ ≥100 | 0% | 5% | 7% | 17% | 34% | 43% | 65% | 77% | 91% | 100% |
It’s very difficult to be a good hitter if you don’t hit the ball hard. I pulled data for every rookie since 2015 and compared it to their stats in ensuing years (hereafter referred to as their veteran stats). As a note, rookie stats include a player’s entire rookie eligibility. For example, Robles’ include his cups of coffee in 2017 and ’18.
As I often do, I started by looking at correlation coefficients. It’s a quick way to get a sense of what’s connected, as well as how sample size is affecting the data. Below is a table that shows the correlation between rookie performance and veteran performance in three stats. It also splits them into buckets with a different minimum number of ball in play events as a rookie. Each group had a minimum of 100 BIP as veterans:
| Minimum Rookie BIP | 40 | 100 | 200 | 300 |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| wRC+ | .45 | .45 | .52 | .60 |
| Average Exit Velocity | .73 | .69 | .78 | .81 |
| Hard-Hit% | .67 | .74 | .81 | .92 |
| Sample Size | 404 | 357 | 182 | 83 |
You’re likely not surprised that exit velocity and hard-hit rate stabilize quickly, or that they’re more self-predictive over time than wRC+. However, you might be surprised by the strength of the correlation. If a player puts at least 300 balls into play as a rookie, we can predict their future hard hit rate with a shockingly high degree of accuracy. The average player increases their hard-hit rate by a bit more than 1% after their rookie year. If we limit ourselves to players who had at least 300 BIP as rookies, only one player has ever increased their hard-hit rate by more than 10%: Vladimir Guerrero Jr., whom the whole baseball world expected to improve upon his disappointing (though certainly not bad) 106 wRC+ as a 20-year-old.

I don’t know about you, but I find the chart on the right a bit depressing. It’s good news for the Aaron Judges of the world, but it certainly doesn’t offer much hope to the Nick Madrigals among us.
Now it’s time for the big question. We’re looking at how a player’s rookie hard-hit rate correlates with their overall batting skill as a veteran. We’ll take the same rookie stats (and add max exit velocity) and check their correlation to a player’s wRC+ as a veteran:
| Rookie BIP Minimum | 40 | 100 | 200 | 250 | 300 |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| wRC+ | .45 | .45 | .52 | .51 | .60 |
| Average Exit Velocity | .44 | .41 | .55 | .58 | .66 |
| Hard-Hit% | .42 | .41 | .53 | .55 | .61 |
| Max Exit Velocity | .39 | .39 | .54 | .43 | .53 |
EV stats and wRC+ have a similar correlation even after just 40 BIP, but EV stats improve more dramatically as the sample gets larger. If you want to know how well a rookie will hit in the future, you might be better off ignoring how good they are now and looking solely at how hard they hit the ball. Again, this might not surprise you, but it does illustrate the stickiness of EV and hard-hit rate, and the extent to which they affect wRC+ over a longer sample.
Now that we’ve determined the importance and immutability of exit velocity, it’s time to gentle ourselves to the icy touch of numerical certainty and condemn some of this year’s rookies to the realm of eternal weak contact. Here are the rookie stats for Geraldo Perdomo and Steven Kwan:
| Player | PA | BIP | EV | maxEV | HH% | BB% | K% | AVG | OBP | SLG | wRC+ |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Kwan | 638 | 509 | 85.1 | 107.1 | 20.8% | 9.7% | 9.4% | .298 | .373 | .400 | 124 |
| Perdomo | 537 | 367 | 85.1 | 104.7 | 25.1% | 10.4% | 20.3% | .199 | .291 | .273 | 62 |
Perdomo and Kwan had very different seasons, but they have a few things in common. They’re rookies who played all year (and in Perdomo’s case, a bit of 2021), and hit the ball very softly. Both were pedigreed prospects who came into the season with questions about their power (though Kwan’s hit tool was classified as elite). What jumps out at me is that Kwan’s wRC+ is twice Perdomo’s, even though Perdomo’s hard-hit rate is significantly higher. Striking out twice as much doesn’t help, but there’s a second factor at play here. Perdomo had a higher hard-hit rate, but their EV was identical. Here’s how that’s possible:
| Player | Hard-Hit | Not Hard-Hit | BABIP |
|---|---|---|---|
| Steven Kwan | 98.4 | 81.1 | .323 |
| Geraldo Perdomo | 98.7 | 76 | .249 |
Kwan hits the ball hard even when he doesn’t hit the ball hard. This helps explain why his BABIP is 74 points higher than Perdomo’s. When Perdomo doesn’t hit the ball hard, his EV is only slightly better than the 75.3 mph that Victor Robles put up as a rookie. Turning into Victor Robles is definitely not the way to solve the Victor Robles Problem.
On balls that aren’t hard-hit, Kwan’s EV is much higher, as are his wOBA and xwOBA. Kwan led the league with 99 balls hit between 90 and 95 mph. League-wide, those medium-hit balls have a wOBA of .269, nowhere near the .649 of hard-hit balls, but certainly much better than the .204 of balls hit below 90 mph. It’s definitely better to hit the ball hard, but it’s still helpful to avoid hitting the ball weakly.
Kwan shares his tendency toward medium contact with the very short list of players who have hit well as veterans despite very low hard-hit rates as rookies. From 2015-21, there were 75 rookies with a hard-hit rate below 28% (minimum 40 BIP). Only nine of those players went on to have a veteran wRC+ above 100. On balls that weren’t hit hard, all nine had an EV above the league average of 80.7 mph:
| Player | rwRC+ | rEV | rEV (Non-HH) | rHH% | rmaxEV | vwRC+ | vEV | vHH% |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Max Muncy | 70 | 86.2 | 83.7 | 26.7% | 108.3 | 130 | 90.2 | 44.5% |
| Luis Arraez | 126 | 87.1 | 84.3 | 22.7% | 102.2 | 118 | 88.7 | 30.4% |
| Isaac Paredes | 65 | 86 | 81.0 | 25.9% | 107.3 | 116 | 87.4 | 37.6% |
| Jorge Polanco | 102 | 86.8 | 81.5 | 25.8% | 106.5 | 111 | 87.5 | 32.4% |
| Ketel Marte | 112 | 87.2 | 80.9 | 27.8% | 109.3 | 110 | 89.0 | 37.2% |
| Jordan Luplow | 72 | 86.5 | 81.3 | 26.7% | 108.5 | 109 | 87.5 | 33.7% |
| Ozzie Albies | 110 | 87.3 | 82.9 | 26.6% | 107 | 106 | 88.2 | 32.4% |
| Omar Narváez | 98 | 83.8 | 81.8 | 16.3% | 104.5 | 102 | 84.9 | 24.4% |
| Tony Kemp | 65 | 84.8 | 81.8 | 13.4% | 100.5 | 102 | 85.2 | 16.9% |
Some of those players, like Max Muncy, saw large jumps in their overall EV stats. They had high medium-hit rates as rookies not because they weren’t strong enough to hit the ball hard, but because there were a lot of balls that they just missed crushing. A select few players, like Arraez, Kemp, and Narváez, don’t have that kind of power, but have been able to succeed as veterans by relying on medium-hit balls. Unfortunately, that’s a very tough tightrope to walk:
| Minimum BIP | 40 | 100 | 200 | 800 |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Total Exit Velocity | .71 | .69 | .70 | .76 |
| Hard-Hit Exit Velocity | .64 | .68 | .70 | .73 |
| Non-Hard-Hit Exit Velocity | .19 | .02 | -.06 | -.06 |
The first row reminds us that it’s better to hit the ball harder. The second row says that even if you’ve already crossed the threshold into hard-hit territory, every last bit of velocity makes a difference. It’s the last row that isn’t quite as intuitive.
Over a short sample, players with a high EV on non-hard-hit balls tend to do better. However, when we increase the number of balls in play required to be in the sample, what tiny correlation there is turns negative. Players who max out with medium-hit balls don’t do well over the long-term. That kind of ball can fall in for a single, but it requires batted ball luck, which evens out over time. No matter the sample size, the correlation between a player’s medium-hit rate as a rookie and as a veteran is .31, much weaker than hard-hit rate. If reaching base that way is a repeatable skill, the only current players who really seem to possess it are Arraez and Kemp.
Among this year’s rookie crop, Kwan seems like the best candidate to join that club, along with Baltimore’s Terrin Vavra. Vavra had a non-hard-hit EV of 83.5 mph and a wRC+ of 97, despite a hard-hit rate of just 23.6%. However, if Kwan and Vavra don’t increase their overall power, they’ll always be more dependent than most players on batted ball luck. Kwan’s wOBACON was 37 points higher than his xwOBACON, the 17th-highest difference in the league, so he could be due for a visit from the regression monster. As for Robles and Perdomo, it might be time to leave them to the cruel hands of fate.
I would love to believe that I’m wrong here, and that players have a better chance of increasing their EV and hard-hit rate than the numbers indicate so far. We’ve only got eight years worth of exit velocity data, and further patterns might emerge after a few more seasons. This is also an era when players have more tools than ever to refashion their offensive profiles. Today’s players are receiving more instruction at the big league level and have access to outside instructors and hitting labs, so there are more resources for a player to rework their swing and unlock more power. For now, though, there doesn’t seem to be a great answer to the Victor Robles Problem.
Thank you to Mike Petriello, who encouraged me to research this topic with a text that began, “i have a story idea for you!” and who almost certainly didn’t expect me to run with the Victor Robles Problem as a title.
Davy Andrews is a Brooklyn-based musician and a writer at FanGraphs. He can be found on Bluesky @davyandrewsdavy.bsky.social.
Great stuff Davy!
I think Kwan is an interesting case, because his elite hit tool lets him get the barrel of his bat on the ball such a high percentage of the time that he’s able to keep the defense honest and not play him extra shallow. The Brett Gardner comp on his player page here is a good one in terms of overall impact, but Kwan gets to that result without the physical strength of Gardner (who’s built like Popeye) but with a better hit tool.
He had 7 barrels last year according to statcast
I think the difference between Kwan and most of the guys with comparable AEV is that he has elite bat control. Robles is a swing and pray guy. Perdomo is better but not by that much. Christian Pache too. Hell, lots of stronger guys, like Maikel Franco (Max EV 112.1, 82nd percentile), Jeimer Candelario, and Jonathan Schoop have low AEV because they can’t make consistent contact. Quality bat-to-ball contact, not actual power, is Kwan’s key to success.
Upvote.
Although to some extent, you also get guys who have elite bat control and that just allows them to hit the ball harder. I call this the Mookie Betts effect; with a minimum of 450s PAs he’s 40th in average EV and 143rd in max EV (out of 167). What Kwan is doing is interesting because somehow he’s not getting extra EV out of his bat but he’s still getting quality contact of some kind; this also appears to be true of Jake Cronenworth, Jose Ramirez, and (shockingly) Ty France. To a lesser extent, this seems like it could be true of guys like JP Crawford and Dylan Carlson. But maybe it’s just dumb luck and those guys will regress?
I mean. I think it’s pretty obvious that Mookie is stronger than Kwan just in terms of build. He doesn’t have a high ceiling, but a high floor, as far as EV on contact.
Mookie’s also one of those polymaths who figures out exactly how he can excel at an activity in the time it takes me to read the instruction manual. Being that guy at the pro level is an eliteness-within-eliteness that’s absurd. He’s *maybe* 5’9″! (I hope he and Thor have fun on photo day)
Great article.
So…if a player isn’t hitting it hard as a rookie, he’s unlikely to do it most of his career?
That seems to be part of the conclusion here. Yes.
And it makes sense. Physical skills nearly all peak at a young age and peter out as a player gets older. The swing adjustments that players make throughout their careers are more about making ideal contact more often, not about making better ideal contact.
I think that it’s a useful heuristic. If you want to take that as a takeaway message, then I think that’s fine.
All that said, it could be a bit more complicated than that. Men continue putting on muscle mass up until their mid-to-late 20s, so you could very well see people who get called up early because of their defense or the fact that they solved the minor leagues (and thus at earlier ages) adding more EV. Before concluding that this is typically true, I’d want to see the ages when people got called up to look at selectivity.
All that said, Victor Robles is literally an example of someone who got called up early for these reasons and still has weak contact. So without a chart of statcast data where I can see changes over time, as well as gaps between max EV and average EV, I’m not really all that confident that this theory is correct.
I wonder what could be learned from players who established themselves in the Show at a relatively advanced age. Muncy, certainly, but also Josh Donaldson, Garrett Cooper, Christian Walker, Neil Walker, J.D. Martinez, Jose Bautista, Justin Turner, Chris Taylor, Daniel Murphy, Luke Voit, Ryan Ludwick, etc. Did they have batting practice power but not game power?
Victor Robles had a tough journey through the Nats organization. When he bulked up following his good 2019 season, he lost value in every dimension. Not just going from .196 ISO to .095, but doing so while selling out for power with a strikeout rate going from 22.7 to 28%. And his defense collapsed, though I don’t think there’s a rate stat that can be used for the short season, he’d had 18.6 DEF in 2019 to 0.4 in 2020. Truly horrible year for him.
I would love to see a companion piece written to justify my lust for all those Oneil Cruz missiles.
This is definitely a bummer. I had long believed that players with elite hit tools have a better chance of figuring out how to add power, whether by increasing EV, FB% or pulling it. I see the trajectories of Altuve, Jose Ramírez, Michael Brantley and Jeff McNeil as reasonable power output comps for guys like Arraez and Kwan. This study doesn’t seem to 100% refute the idea that elite hit tools increases the power ceiling of low EV guys but it throws a ton of cold water on the likelihood of low EV players reaching that ceiling. Great work
Age matters.
Ramirez was at the Majors at 20 and was fairly raw at the plate. His defense is what brought him up.
Players “do* add some power as they mature and learn when/how to pull the ball to maximize their power but there is no substitute for actual muscle. The trick for the non-judges of the world is to maximize their opportunities to use what power they have. Hence barrel rate. Not all pitches can be clobbered, regardless of native power so they all need to do their best to the pitcher’s worst.
Also, look at Ramirez and Altuve in terms of build. Ramirez is built like a brick house. He’s just a big guy despite only being like 5’8″. Altuve is the same. Branley and McNeil are a bit different, but those two are nothing like Kwan and Arraez in terms of body type.
One narrative that needs to end, and it is kind of surprising in this article in particular because it illustrates it, is that BABIP is luck. It isnt.
Let me repeat that again. BABIP IS NOT LUCK. The people saying this, and writing these articles, know math too well to be making this mistake, and yet constantly we get the same thing.
BABIP takes a long time to stabilize, and is not particularly consistent from year to year, but that does not mean that when you get a hit in the field of play it was due to luck. It was entirely due to skill. The proper term for what happens on balls in play year to year is variance.
Having a .360 BABIP one year and a .260 the next does not mean a guy got lucky one year and then unlucky the next. It means that due to a variety of factors the results were not evenly distributed over time.
This narrative needs to die, especially among people with the mathematical knowledge to know better.
I don’t know who you’re arguing with, but it’s not anyone I know. It’s been obvious for a long time that BABIP is a mixture of luck and skill and in the pre-Statcast era it was way harder to disentangle them. It was especially true for pitchers, who pitch behind the same defenses every night.
For hitters, the consensus view for as long as I can remember is that what we’re seeing was something they did and was not in any sense due to “luck”. Because they play against a range of different defenses that roughly approximate league average when all is said and done, hitter BABIP is not confounded. For hitters, the question is not whether it was something they were responsible for, it is whether it’s something they can replicate. Eric Hosmer is sort of the poster child for this–the question of “will he hit line drives this year” will tell you about his BABIP and thus his overall offensive output. If you can keep your swing working properly and you can keep adjusting to pitchers, then that’s great, but that’s not necessarily a given and the ability to keep those things going should affect BABIP from year to year.
My only quibble is that in the post Statcast era it’s still hard to disentangle them.
Really interesting piece! Always enjoying learning how predictive early measures of stats are for players’ careers.
One suggestion… once you start segmenting a metric a second time (as you did with exit velocity), it might be useful to move to histograms. For instance… I’m really curious now what Kwan exit velo histogram looks like compared to perdomo’s
This checks out with my assumptions. Force equals mass times acceleration. Your acceleration (bat speed) is probably going to be at it’s best in your early 20s. You can increase your mass but for most guys there’s a cap on how big they can realistically get while maintaining their quickness.
I also want to add that I think we get caught up too much in exit velo. Yes I know harder hit ball = better outcomes. But there are so guys that can crush the ball but they absolutely suck as hitters lol. Kwan is really good hitter. He is what he is. Stinks he can’t hit the ball harder but ball don’t lie… he gets results.
Yup. I’m not in any way comparing Kwan to Ichiro, but I’d really like to imagine what Ichiro’s statcast data would have been and how people would have responded to it. EV is a great measure for certain things… but not for guys whose games rely on strike zone coverage and batted ball placement as opposed to batted ball distance.
Ichiro’s statcast data wouldn’t have been impressive but Ichiro was also a unicorn. I do think there will always be a place for left-handed hitters with speed who can spray the ball around.
average EV and BABIP have little to no correlation (please check if you don’t believe me).
The strong relationship EV has with overall production is all about power, it’s not batting average (therefore OBP) related.
I wish analysts were more careful with this distinction.
Kwans path to relevance is clearly that of a classic leadoff guy who just gets on base, and exit velocity simply doesn’t affect that a whole lot. Does everyone need to be a power hitter to help their team? OBP + defense is valuable too.
The article points out Kwan’s bat to ball talent but it neglects the other half of the equation: strike zone control. Pitchers have to come to him. As he evolves he is more likely to improve his walk rate than his power if he is to improve at all.
So yes, OBP is important. And with the new pickoff rules, he might get a few more steals, too.
Wait, average EV isn’t tied to BABIP?
https://imgur.com/a/o93sbcz
Interesting. So is batted ball type (barrels, etc.) what is really making the difference?
pretty much yes. soft and medium hit line drives are excellent for babip
This is in the short list of one of the most informative and fascinating articles I have ever read here. Please send this comment to Appelman as evidence you belong.
Good stuff here. It seems to me like this might align well with Baseball Savant’s eventual release of sweet spot data, which they teased a bit during the 2022 season?
As in, players who are limiting their amount of weak contact may just be better at putting the sweet spot on the ball (Kwan), but don’t possess the bat speed required to achieve greater avg/max EVs.
Would also be curious about whether there is a subset of players who are limiting weak contact in a small sample but not squaring the ball up much. Seems like it would be easy to fade them.
Great article!
I have a skeptical hypothesis about the negative correlation of non-hard-hit EV to wOBA (and I haven’t looked to see if this makes sense).
Suppose that there are two kinds of batted balls, mishits and OK hits. Mishits are always weakly hit, and OK hits are normally distributed around a point somewhere above the threshold for hard hit.
If batters A and B have the same proportion of OK hits, and the same EV on mishits, and batter B’s EV on OK hits is higher than batter A’s… then batter B’s non-hard-hit EV will be lower than batter A’s. Because more of B’s OK hits are above the hard-hit threshold, meaning more of his non-hard-hits are mishits rather than OK hits. B will likely have a higher wOBA than A, not because of better performance on the non-hard-hits, but because of more hard hits.
So basically: could there be a selection effect here?
Great stuff and here are some power comps to Kwan at the same age:
https://twitter.com/jeffwzimmerman/status/1604920203992858649?s=20&t=YbklDojs-EWO08gL_-3U9w
I wish avgEV wasn’t used but HardHit%. When the ball is hit hard, good stuff happens. Ideally, the value should be 102 mph (not 95 mph) but not a ton of accuracy gain.
Just hitting the ball hard doesn’t lead directly to HR or AVG. Higher flyball% and pull% rates lead to HRs. Oppo% and GB% (and speed) lead to a high AVG.
Three factors to always consider:
HardHit%
Pull% (or Oppo%)
Launch Angle (or GB%)
I think it would be interesting to look at something more than average exit velocity. Averages are pretty blunt instruments, it would be interesting to see what the variance is in exit velocity as well. You hint at this when you break out the AEV on hard hit balls vs others, but it would be interesting to see if there were any correlation to future performance from variance in AEV. Again this is hinted at, but perhaps variance as a rookie in AEV is correlated to future growth in AEV.
Thanks!
I’m not sure this is such a surprising (and thus depressing) result. To oversimplify, we’ve always known that it’s hard for one type of hitter to become a different, better type of hitter. Those who do accomplish that are outliers. What you’ve shown here is sort of the under-the-hood version of that, wouldn’t you say?
Yes, but the interesting part is in how soon and accurately the bad hitters are identified.
Does the article actually do that, though?
are all true and far from surprising.
But that is very different from
‘looking at power numbers of rookies, we can quickly identify hitters who won’t be good in the future.’
The part that confuses me is that this is all pretty much common sense to old school scouts.
Power puts a ceiling on hitters’ values and while high school/college athletes can and do put on more muscle and power, it is less likely for 24 year old rookies.
Great discussion – from the well-written article to the many interesting, thought-provoking comments. Excellent all-around!
I think this might be the most interesting Fangraphs article in the last year.
I’m a bit sceptical of kwan. What he has on other contact guys is that he has excellent plate discipline so likely he will continue to walk at least at at an 8-9% clip which helps his obp.
However his x slug was 60 points below his actual slg (340 vs 400 actual) and he doesn’t hit the ball very hard.
Sure he has great bat control and sprays the ball a lot so it isn’t easy to position for him but with a little better positioning his babip could drop and maybe pitchers walk him a little less and a few extra fly balls get caught on the warning track and all of a sudden he is a 90 wrc+ guy (say 280/340/350 with 4 homers).
He could also go the other way, get stronger and hit 320 with 15 homers (kinda like peak michael brantley with more defensive value as a ceiling) and that would be great but I think the other way is more likely.
We have seen great contact hitters having a great year where a couple extra fly balls just leave the park and babip is higher like dee Gordon in 2015 or nicky lopez 2021 but we also have see them regress hard the next year.
I think kwan is better than those guys because he has better patience and at least like 35 grade power but but still have could have had that year by coincidence in his first year.
Regarding increasing power much I don’t really see it. There could be some jump but he is 25 and Cleveland player dev is actually good at increasing power. That sounds ironic since Cleveland was 29th in homers last year but their whole strategy with hitters is getting amateurs with good contact ability and turn them from 3 homer guys into 10-15 homer guys which is a great improvement (but still makes you bottom third in homers if you only have 2 guys over 25 and the rest 5-15)