Trading for Jhoan Duran Is One Way To Shore up a Bullpen

The Philadelphia Phillies needed to get a reliever at the deadline, and they’ve got a doozy. Jhoan Duran, the 27-year-old flamethrower late of the Minnesota Twins, is taking his splinker east. This is a seller’s market for relievers, and Duran is the best one available; certainly the best with any kind of long-term team control remaining, and even more so now that Emmanuel Clase is indisposed.
Given Duran’s prodigious gifts, track record of durability and reliability, and two full remaining arbitration years, the cost is high: rookie right-hander Mick Abel and teenage catcher Eduardo Tait. Abel, the first high school pitcher taken in the 2020 draft, had an unsteady progression through the minors, but has shown flashes in limited major league action. Tait, fresh off a futures game invite, is an 18-year-old catcher and therefore quite raw, but he has the tools to be a good defender with plus, even plus-plus power at the plate.
It’s not Andrew Painter, or even Aidan Miller, but it’s a lot of freight from a not-that-great farm system, in order to get a one-inning reliever. Why would the Phillies do this? Well, not to be impolite, but they’re kind of desperate.
In 2023 and 2024, the Phillies had top-five bullpens in the regular season, then watched their championship hopes vanish when their high-leverage guys humped the bunk. Every time I think about what happened to Craig Kimbrel (and to a lesser extent Orion Kerkering) in Game 4 of the 2023 NLCS, my cardiologist gets mad at me, so if you want more details you can find them on YouTube or something.
Blame for last year’s NLCS exit to the Mets is almost universal; apart from Zack Wheeler, Nick Castellanos, and Bryce Harper, none of last year’s Phillies were free from sin. But I will mention this: In that NLDS, four high-leverage Phillies relievers (Kerkering, Matt Strahm, Jeff Hoffman, and Carlos Estévez) combined for a championship WPA of minus-14.85. For context, Corey Seager’s game-tying ninth-inning home run off Paul Sewald in Game 1 of the 2023 World Series (the most impactful play of that year’s postseason) was worth 14.79 cWPA.
The Phillies’ two All-Star relievers, their major deadline add, and their unhittable wunderkind last year were worth the opposite of a ninth-inning World Series home run. In a first-round series in which none of the Phillies’ losses came by less than three runs. And José Alvarado made one appearance, allowed two earned runs, a hit, and two walks in only two-thirds of an inning.
That kind of thing will give your fans a complex, and up the pressure on the front office to make sure it doesn’t happen again. The goodwill from the surprise 2022 pennant run is all but gone; it’s put-up-or-shut-up time for Dave Dombrowski and his core of 30-somethings.
That bullpen puzzle got even trickier this year when Hoffman departed for Toronto in free agency and Alvarado took an 80-game PED suspension that will also knock him out for the playoffs. The Joe Ross and Jordan Romano experiments have been incredibly rough to watch, and if Dombrowski had just put 40-year-old David Robertson back in the mixer and called it a day, the phone lines at WIP would’ve melted.
Last season, Dombrowski tried to walk the middle path by trading for Estévez, a rental with good overall production but no off-the-charts dominant qualities. The middle path turned out to be covered in spiders.
This time, he’s gone for broke. The Phillies love pitchers who throw multiple fastballs hard, and Duran is one of the best in baseball in that genus. He’s got a triple-digit four-seamer with outrageous carry. The heater plays off an upper-90s splinker that looks like the four-seamer and drops at the last second. This is the pitch that made Paul Skenes famous, but Duran threw it first.
He also has two upper-80s breaking pitches. There’s a knuckle-curve that he throws to both righties and lefties, and a sweeper with less drop and more horizontal movement, for use sparingly and almost exclusively against right-handed opponents. The sweeper is more or less new for this year, and generates a 55.6% whiff rate when he can get opponents to swing at it. The curveball has a more pedestrian, if you want to call it that, 41.5% whiff rate, but opponents have a .155 average and .135 xBA against the hook over his career. It’s been more than 11 months since anyone hit the knuckle-curve for extra bases.
Which brings up an interesting point about Duran. A pitcher who throws as hard as he does, with a knockout breaking ball, would seem like a big strikeout guy. And while Duran gets his share of whiffs, his strikeout, chase, and swing-and-miss numbers are good but not elite-closer good. This is not Hoffman, or Edwin Díaz, or even Griffin Jax, a pitcher in whom the Phillies were reportedly interested as well.
Duran is more like the rocket-fuel version of Tim Hudson. His barrel rate, 3.0%, is self-evidently minuscule and fourth best among qualified relievers. He has the second-highest GB% among qualified relievers. His expected stats based on quality of contact are all elite: 95th percentile xwOBA, 96th percentile xSLG, 99th percentile xISO.
Only 4.5% of Duran’s balls in play have been in the air and to the pull side; this is by some distance the most dangerous type of contact a pitcher can allow. League average is 16.6%, and only one pitcher with 100 or more balls in play this year has a lower in-air pull rate than Duran does. He looks like a bat-missing monster, but he’s actually a contact-suppressing monster.
I’ve gone on at some length about the dangers of overrating team control for relievers, and the reason Duran is bringing back such a bigger return than someone like Ryan Helsley is that he’s under team control through 2027. Even elite relievers get hurt, lose the strike zone, or drop a fastball grade without warning.
But Duran is the best closer on the market now. Those two extra arb years mean that, if everything goes well, Dombrowski won’t have to go through all this rigmarole again. That’s not a good enough reason to prioritize one elite reliever over another, but it’s a nice bonus, and worth paying a little extra for.
And the Phillies did have to dig deep in this trade. Philadelphia’s farm system has one no-doubt elite prospect, Andrew Painter, whom they wouldn’t give up for Garrett Crochet. Beyond that, there’s not a lot of eye-popping depth. Top position player prospect Aidan Miller is starting to show some cracks in Double-A; the rest of the list is pitcher-heavy or pretty far away.
The Twins didn’t manage to land Painter or Miller (though there’s no harm in asking), or even Justin Crawford, the near majors-ready speedster with one of the highest GB/FB rates in professional baseball. Had Crawford gone to Minnesota, it would’ve been just revenge for the Ben Revere trade, but he remains in the Phillies organization as well. If he’s still there by Friday, he might end up in the big leagues for the stretch run.
The best prospect in this deal is Tait. While Crawford is knocking on the door of the big leagues and Tait is still years off, I’d still rather have the latter. His numbers in the Florida State League (.255/.319/.434, 11 home runs in 82 games) look fine, but there are three things that don’t show up in the stat line.
First: He’s an excellent defensive catcher, a very good framer who’s shed some baby fat and added muscle over the past year. Second: “Baby fat” is accurate, because he turns 19 next month, making him one of the five youngest full-time position players in the FSL. Last year’s top high school draft prospects, like Konnor Griffin and Bryce Rainer, are at this level (or were, since Rainer’s hurt). Griffin is four months older than Tait; Rainer is more than a year older.
Third: Tait has above-average raw power with the potential for plus-plus raw power, topping out at a 116-mph exit velo. His EV90 is 106 mph; that’d be about average for a major league catcher now.
Good defensive catchers with plus-plus raw power (and any clue how to access it in games) are as rare a player type as exists in baseball. There might not be five players who fit that description in the whole of the major leagues.
I’m going to pepper you with caveats so you don’t get too over your skis with what follows: Tait is 18 years old in A-ball. (The Twins are sending Tait to High-A Cedar Rapids, which is not even close to the most depressing assignment in the Midwest League, believe it or not.) He’s probably four years from the majors, give or take, even if everything goes well. And Tait has some absolutely appalling plate discipline numbers; if he’s going to make it to the majors, someone is going to have to tell him the strike zone isn’t nine feet wide.
But with all that said, this is the Cal Raleigh starter kit. It’s a long and treacherous journey from here to that, but Tait has the highest realistic ceiling of any player traded at the deadline so far.
Abel requires much less projection because he’s already reached the majors. He was unbelievable in his major league debut, striking out nine in six scoreless, walkless innings. Things got a little trickier once he had to play anyone other than the Pirates, but still, the makings of a big league starter are in there.
Not too long ago, Abel was viewed as almost the Phillies’ co-top prospect alongside Painter, but he’s had a hard journey through the minors. Last year, he was 3-12 with a 6.46 ERA and a 15.1% walk rate in 24 Triple-A starts. Things have turned around for him this year; the big change is that Abel is throwing his curveball more to both lefties and righties. This curveball is a beauty, a slow, looping offering that disappears out of the zone when he commands it.
Abel had de-emphasized the hook in favor of a slider, on the logic that the slider complemented his fastball shape better. That logic only works if the pitch itself is good, however, and back into the rotation went Abel’s curve.
If Abel can command his slider and get any use whatsoever out of his changeup, he’s a mid-rotation starter. If not, he’s still a big leaguer either as a backend starter or a high-leverage reliever. If Abel had been on any team other than the one with the deepest rotation in baseball, he probably would’ve been a full-time rotation piece already. And if he’d stayed with the Phillies, he probably would’ve been in the running for a playoff bullpen spot, possibly in a multi-inning or piggyback role.
The Twins, near as anyone can tell, aren’t heading into a rock-bottom multi-year tank. If they’re keeping Byron Buxton, Carlos Correa, and (probably?) Joe Ryan, they’ll be trying to contend again in a year or two. Abel fits that timeline; I’d be surprised if he doesn’t break camp with Minnesota next year.
So that’s one high-floor pitcher with additional upside, plus a higher-risk prospect who has the potential to be a star. It might not be what the Twins were hoping for, but they were able to leverage the Phillies’ circumstances (wealth of major league starting pitching, inability to wait for Tait to develop) and get two players they probably wouldn’t have been able to pry off of any other team.
The Phillies still have holes to fill, but they got the best player they could at a position of dire need, without giving up any of their top three prospects. It’s not a guarantee of anything, but it’s a step toward making Baseball Season last longer, and pushing Effigy Season back.
Michael is a writer at FanGraphs. Previously, he was a staff writer at The Ringer and D1Baseball, and his work has appeared at Grantland, Baseball Prospectus, The Atlantic, ESPN.com, and various ill-remembered Phillies blogs. Follow him on Twitter, if you must, @MichaelBaumann.
I strongly disagree that the Phillies gave up a lot here. Teenage catchers are the riskiest type of position player prospect there is, and Mick Abel’s track record of throwing strikes is just this year.
There is a fairly good chance that the Phillies have traded a sixth starter and a guy who is going to get ground up and spit out as he climbs the ladder for the most consistent high-leverage reliever in MLB today. Not the one with the highest highs, or even the most value over the last 3-4 years, but the one who is the least likely to blow up on you.
This is the kind of deal that if it goes sideways could get the Twins’ front office fired when a new owner eventually takes over. I’ve long thought that the Twins front office was middle of the pack, but I would not be surprised even a little if Duran puts up more WAR over the next 2.5 years as Tait and Abel put up in their entire rest of their careers.
Duran is averaging about 1.25 WAR per year for his career. Assuming his arb award pays him around 6-7 million next year. That’s not that much value. Then if in 2027 he’s awarded 10-12 million in arbitration, and produces another 1-1.5 WAR season. His value is pretty much 0.
If the Twins even get 1 or 2 WAR out of Abel/ Tait in their pre-arb years that’s a win for the Twins.
WAR is not a good judgment for reliever value. Hader signed for 5/95. That’s not based on him getting you 1 win per year
Yes it is, and it’s based on him getting 1.5-2.5 WAR/year.
30-yo Josh Hader got $95mil/5yrs coming off WARs of 1.7, .8, 2.6, .3 (in 2020), 2.3, 2.6.
Last year 33-yo Sean Manaea got $75mil/3yrs coming off WARs of 2.8, 1.2, 1.1, 3.3, 1.1 (in 2020).
34-yo Yusei Kikuchi got $63mil/3yrs coming off WARs of 3.6, 2.6, -.9, 1.1, 1.1 (in 2020), .2.
31-yo Luis Severino got $67/3yrs coming off 2.1, -.6, 1.5, .2 (injured), 0 (injured), .5 (injured).
The idea that relievers get vastly different contracts based on WAR is nonsense.
So:
Manaea had been worth 4 WAR over the previous two years.
Kikuchi had been worth 5.2 WAR over the previous two years.
Hader had been worth 2.5 WAR over the previous two years.
And Hader got the most money, and comparable AAV.
Brilliant rebuttal, mate!!!
Selectively presenting evidence and deliberately ignoring Luis Severino when he doesn’t fit your narrative isn’t the argument you seem to think it is.
By the way last offseason 30-yo RP Tanner Scott was signed to a $72mil/4yr deal coming off WARs of 1.6 and 2.8, so 4.5 WAR, so 33-yo SP Manaea got more money from less WAR over the last 2 seasons.
Luis Severino was blatantly signed to divert attention from how much Fisher’s been stealing in terms of revenue sharing.
But sure, I’ll grant that the Mets overpaid for Manaea, because they don’t care.
The long and short of it is that both systems of WAR systemically undervalue relievers.
fWAR thinks that a reliever who enters with the bases loaded and 1 out and allows a double, then gets 2 Ks is better than one who gets a GIDP.
rWAR thinks that they’re exactly the same.
What do you think?
And what do you think teams value, out of high-leverage relievers?
We can go through every major pitching contract (geq $5mil) last season to find the same trend. If you see anything that stands out to you let me know, because I don’t see it.
31-yo Max Fried: $218mil/8yrs off 3.3+1.9=5.2 WAR
30-yo Corbin Burnes: $210mil/6yrs off 3.4+3.9=7.2 WAR
32-yo Blake Snell: $182mil/5yrs off 4.2+3.1=7.2 WAR
33-yo Sean Manaea: $75mil/3yrs off 1.2+2.8=3.9 WAR
35-yo Nathan Eovaldi: $75mil/3yrs off 2.4+2.6=5.0 WAR
30-yo Tanner Scott: $72mil/4yrs off 2.8+1.6=4.5 WAR
31-yo Luis Severino: $67mil/3yrs off -.6+2.1=1.6 WAR
34-yo Yusei Kikuchi: $63mil/3yrs off 2.6+3.6=6.2 WAR
32-yo Nick Pivetta: $55mil/4yrs off 1.9+2.0=3.9 WAR
33-yo Michael Wacha: $51mil/3yrs off 2.7+3.3=5.9 WAR
29-yo Jack Flaherty: $45mil/2yrs off 1.8+3.3=5.1 WAR
32-yo Clay Holmes: $38mil/3yrs off 1.6+1.2=2.7 WAR
32-yo Frankie Montas: $34mil/2yrs off 0.0(injured)+1.3=1.3 WAR
32-yo Jeff Hoffman: $33mil/3yrs off 1.5+2.0=3.6 WAR
33-yo Matthew Boyd: $29mil/2yrs off .9+.9 injured)=1.8 WAR
30-yo Shane Bieber (injured): $26mil/2yrs off 2.1+.8 (injured)=2.9 WAR
32-yo Carlos Estevez: $22mil/2yrs off .9+1.1=2.0 WAR
37-yo Blake Treinen: $22mil/2yrs off 0.0 (injured) +1.0=1.0 WAR
31-yo AJ Minter: $22mil/2yrs off 1.4-.1=1.4 WAR
34-yo Nick Martinez: $21mil/1yr off 1.4+3.4=4.8 WAR
30-yo Walker Buehler: $21mil/1yr off 0.0 (injured)-.1= -.1 WAR
28-yo Patrick Sandoval (injured): $18mil/2yrs off 2.3+1.2=3.5 WAR
40-yo Max Scherzer: $15.5mil/1yr off 2.2+.6 (injured)=2.8 WAR
41-yo Charlie Morton: $15mil/1yr off 2.6+1.1=3.7 WAR
42-yo Justin Verlander: $15mil/1yr off 3.4+.7=4.0 WAR
34-yo Yimi Garcia: $15mil/2yrs off 1.0+.4=1.4 WAR
36-yo Alex Cobb: $15mil/1yr off 1.8+.3 (injured)=2.1 WAR
33-yo Trevor Williams: $14mil/2yrs off -.1+2.0=1.9 WAR
38-yo Kirby Yates: $13mil/1yr off -.2+1.9=1.7 WAR
31-yo Aaron Bummer: $13mil/2yrs off .8+1.1=1.9 WAR
37-yo Aroldis Chapman: $11mil/1yr off 1.7+1.1=2.8 WAR
37-yo Kenley Jansen: $10mil/1yr off 1.1+1.4=2.5 WAR
31-yo Jose Leclez: $10mil/1yr off .9+.8=1.7 WAR
35-yo Andrew Kittridge: $10mil/1yr off .1 (injured)+.3=.5 WAR
27-yo Michael Soroka: $9mil/1yr off -.4 (injured)+.4=0.0 WAR
32-yo Jordan Romano: $8.5mil/1yr off 1.2+-.3=.9 WAR
35-yo Tommy Kahnle: $8mil/1yr off .3+.1=.4 WAR
37-yo Clayton Kershaw: $7mil/1yr off 2.4+.7 (injured)=3.1 WAR
33-yo Michael Lorenzen: $7mil/1yr off 1.7+.7=2.4 WAR
35-yo Paul Sewald: $7mil/1yr off .8+.3=1.2 WAR
33-yo Kyle Finnegan: $6mil/1yr off .3+0.0=.3 WAR
39-yo Chris Martin: $5.5mil/1yr off 1.5+.9=2.4 WAR
34-yo Andrew Heaney: $5mil/1yr off 1.2+2.2=3.4 WAR
37-yo Kyle Gibson: $5mil/1yr off 2.7+1.5=4.1 WAR
34-yo Colin Rea: $5mil/1yr off .7+.8=1.5 WAR
34-yo Martin Perez: $5mil/1yr off .3+.5=.8 WAR
30-yo Jonathan Loasiga: $5mil/1yr off 0.0 (injured)+.1 (injured)=.1 WAR
You didn’t answer my question.
fWAR thinks that a reliever who enters with the bases loaded and 1 out and allows a double, then gets 2 Ks is better than one who gets a GIDP.
rWAR thinks that they’re exactly the same.
What do you think?
And what do you think teams value, from relief pitchers?
Further, Adrian Morejon, Trevor Rogers, and Dennis Santana currently rank 11th, 13th, and 15th in Statcast’s Pitching Run Value metric.
Do you think Tom Tango and Mike Petriello don’t know how to properly value pitcher performance?
If so, why?
I am pretty sure that if Duran was a free agent at the end of this season he would get a deal similar to Tanner Scott’s this past offseason.
If you’re feeling down on Duran, go ahead and give him one fewer year than Scott. I’m pretty sure it still means that math on Duran’s arb years work out quite nicely.
I honestly think Duran would get more due to age and a longer track record (especially of not walking everyone).
Tait is so far away from the majors that he’s a bit of a Rorschach test. He’s put up impressive numbers for an 18-year-old in single A, but the prediction interval is very wide here. Maybe he doesn’t stick at catcher, maybe he flames out at AA, maybe he’s a perennial all-star backstop. Who knows at this point.
Abel profiles at worst as a decent bullpen guy, but at best as an above average starter. If he at least has one average to above average year as a starter, it’s quite possible he puts up more WAR in that one year than Duran does in 2.5 solid seasons for the Phillies.
I think the Twins went for prospects with pretty high variance here as opposed to others with higher floors but lower ceilings. I think you’re right in that this has a chance to end badly if neither prospect is really a major leaguer, but I don’t think I hate the process for a team that’s been mostly mediocre for a few years now.
Abel needs a lot of work to become an above average starter. Maybe the Twins think they know something the Phillies don’t but right now it looks like he can’t throw strikes without getting hit hard. Maybe he pitches in the 7th or 8th inning, or maybe he’s a 4th or 5th starter. The breaking balls and velocity are pretty good so he’s easy to dream on. But even then…
I totally get that. But I personally like the play for ceiling as opposed to floor.
Abel is tied for 13th in Stuff+ this year among SP with at least 20 IP in the big leagues. That type of guy doesn’t grow on trees. He’s actually right next to Jack Leiter, who feels like a decent comp to me. Big stuff, questionable strike-throwing, can get knocked around a bit. But still young.
I don’t like Leiter either! I guess that shouldn’t surprise me based on what you just said.
Tait though, I agree with you on him. I don’t agree with the Cal Raleigh starter kit thing, because that’s ridiculous, but realistically offensive upside for catchers is so rare that if he hits for a 100 wRC+ and plays average defense at catcher for 450 PAs he’s a 2 win player. And at 120 wRC+ he’s probably a 3.5 win player.
But that’s dependent on average defense and him actually hitting, and we are a very long way away from that point.
Somewhat tangential to this, I do think that with the challenge system/ABS on the horizon, targeting a bat-first catching prospect whose arm is the best part of the defensive profile could look pretty savvy over the next few years. It’s the type of bet that makes sense to me logically.
I thought the price for Duran was fair given his year’s of control.
I don’t love Duran but he’s a damn good RP.
They still need another BP piece. Neither Orion nor Romano should be trusted as rp 4 in the playoffs.
As a Phillies fan, I trust Orion in high leverage spots, but Romano doesn’t belong on the playoff roster.
Completely agree. This seems just sort of bad for Min. I am unconvinced Abel can be a starter, and Tait is so far away we don’t even know what baseball will look like by the time he would crack the majors. And it’s a not at all a rental!
Maybe the Phillies read where Baumann told them not to pay much for extra years of control. Then they told the Twins about it.
One could look at Tait and Abel as high variance versions of the Rogers prospects
Agreed. And while relievers tend to be fairly risky as well, I like Duran over the next several years because he has a starter’s repertoire, unlike the average 2-pitch reliever, and he doesn’t have a platoon split.
As a Twins fan, I’ve been able to talk myself into this move. Tait and Abel are both fairly high-variance prospects in my eyes, and this is the type of bet the Twins probably need to make to get back to contention.
It hurts to lose Duran, but the bullpen is still fairly deep and profiles to at least be decent next year if Jax, Sands, and Varland are around. An elite bullpen with a mediocre team around it is like refitting the interior of your 2011 Honda Civic – it’s nice of course and makes for a smoother ride, but it won’t help the engine’s pickup at all. Abel and Tait have a chance to really push the team forward if they hit.
I think the return is fine enough from Minnesota’s perspective, but that doesn’t make this any less of a steal from Philadelphia’s.
This is a win-now team that added the best player available at its position of greatest need for its organization’s sixth-best pitcher and a teenage catcher. What a deal.
As a Phillies fan, I’m happy with this trade. A teenage catcher with zero plate discipline who doesn’t fit the Phils timeline is both very likely to bust and very expendable. Mick Abel failed to improve at all until this year, and in the majors this year didn’t show either the stuff or the command needed to get non-Pirates out. I strongly suspect that he hasn’t really improved this year either, that he just happened to have a good run of strike-throwing in AAA that you can’t count on him repeating. It’s always possible that Duran tears his UCL next week, Abel finally improves, and Tait turns into the second coming of Cal Raleigh, but those all seem like low risks well worth taking to me.
As a fan of a contending team, I would happily give up a 45 and 40+ prospects for Duran. Neither Tait or Abel were likely to move the needle this year for the Phils and both have very low floors.
Surprised the Phils were able to get Duran without giving Crawford or Miller. Especially since Dombrowski seems like he’d do it if that’s what it took.
I really thought this would be a sellers market but it has not turned out that way at all.
Agree that the returns for Duran and Suarez were shockingly low. Other prospect outlets see Tait as a 50. If one sees Abel as a 45 (higher than Longhagen), that still seems too low for Duran. For that matter 4 years of Mason Miller just returned DeVries, a 40+, and 2 35+’s. If you see DeVries as a 55 (Eric sees him as a 50), that still seems low for Duran, let alone Miller. If DeVries is a 60, maybe that makes sense.
Littell returned a 45+ (for the Dodgers somehow), Soroka returned a 45 and 40, and Tyler Roger’s somehow returned 2 45’s and another mid-leverage reliever. So the depth starter market still seems like a seller’s market, but there seems to be a correction underway for relievers (excepting Tyler Rogers), and elite bats still aren’t returning much.
FWIW, Konnor Griffin has been in the South Atlantic League for about half the season. And Tait got promoted to the Sally just before getting traded, so it’s not such a surprise that the Twins are also sending him to high A; though it makes his relative age stand out even more.
Twins are taking all the risk, and Ryan and Lopez are gone before Tait sees Minnesota. They didn’t fix anything for next year, so they’ll be the same team that is going to miss the playoffs four times in five years, except without their best RP….. How is this good?
Neither guy is even in your top 100 list, how is this good?
Duran is not gonna be the difference between them making or not making the playoffs
Neither is either guy they got.
I am confused, this write up of Tait sounds like a totally different player than described in the prospect report on this very site
Yeah I would be interested to know where Bauman is getting the info that Tait is presently an excellent defensive catcher. This must be a very recent development.
The write up really undersells the power that Tait has shown. The EV90 and MaxEV numbers are both above the MLB averages, not just average for a catcher. For an 18 yo, those are excellent numbers.
“It’s not Andrew Painter, or even Aidan Miller, but it’s a lot of freight from a not-that-great farm system, in order to get a one-inning reliever. Why would the Phillies do this?“
Personally I think that statement even more begs the question of why MN would do this. They pulled players only highly rated in the org ranks due to a poor farm system. And when they had another year of control to play with to boot – they did not *have* to make this deal, and there is no reason to make it if you’re getting what appears to me to be more lotto tickets than difference makers.
Abel to me looks like he is on the road being described as a “guy whose stuff plays up in the bullpen”. Tait, who from my understanding is a defensive project with a highly questionable hit tool, represents something actually not that hard to find – EV only guys on a potential 1B/DH trajectory. Oddly, this is the second one of those acquired by the Twins just this week
I don’t like this from the Twins side one bit. I think they got spooked by a bunch of reports about Doval, Miller, etc suddenly joining the market this PM
As a Twins fan, I hate this deal. The most likely outcome is that neither prospect is ever a useful major leaguer. This is the best they could do for one of the best relievers in baseball, who’s under control for two more years?
The message here is that they don’t think they can contend for at least two more years, and that is a sucky message. Even in 2028, chances are these prospects will not be meaningful parts of a good team.
How does this deal make the team better? It doesn’t. They traded a good player for two bad players
I think Abel becomes your 4th best SP for the rest of this current season and will put up 2+ wins next year at a league minimum salary. Unless your team has 5 better starters, you’re looking at a bunch of years of a basically free SP4-5 with upside potential.
You’re taking a flier with Tait but at 18 in high A there’s no hurry to evaluate this deal. Unless he completely flames out or moves off the position you’ll have like 4 years to find a “sell high” point.
The only reason to trade Duran now is if (1) the Twins don’t think they can compete in 2026 and (2) they are worried about Duran blowing his arm out because he throws so hard.
A deal like this would 100% be on the table next deadline, and they would have him for another year.
And while they wouldn’t get this for him as a rental, I think they could get still get someone like Tait, plus some other interesting lottery ticket pitcher, maybe an FV40+ instead of FV45. Like, a Tait-level prospect plus whichever one of Bryce Cunningham and Ben Hess you think is less likely to put it all together.
I agree. But if they’re not going to compete in 2026, they might as well trade Joe Ryan, Jax, and anyone else who’s good enough to be useful to a first division team.
What this looks like to me is an endless rebuild incoming. And if you’re going to start a fire sale, getting 50 cents on the dollar for one of your most in-demand pieces is a crap way to start.
Giving myself full marks for this one.
Let’s everybody hold up here…if it’s 2028 and both those guys have busted, then sure, let’s go ahead and call them two bad players. But let’s not presuppose we know how things are going to play out for these two guys, particularly one whose freaking eighteen.
Two lottery tickets? Two guys unlikely to be difference-makers? Sure, I’ll accept that. But just definitively and preemptively declaring them “bad players” – no one knows that.
They are both bad players right now.
I guess Abel could theoretically improve, but there is nothing in his actual results that suggest it will happen. It’s just wishcasting on his “stuff” and former pedigree. You can’t make a good team out of #5 starters, no matter how cheap they are.
Tait, who knows. Theres a slim chance he could eventually become good, but it sure won’t happen while anyone else currently on the team is around.
The Twins did not need to make this deal. The players they got in return are bad now and will probably never be any good. I give them a straight F.
This is the return I would have expected if Duran was a pure rental. I will not be renewing my MLB TV subscription.
How do you know these are bad players? Are you a major league scout? GM?
Pete Crow Armstrong would be a bad player then when the Cubs traded for him. Same with Fernando Tatis Jr. Not saying Tait will become an All-Star, but he certainly has potential to be one.
If Abel can even be a 4/5 starter type guy next season and pitch 150 or so innings, that’s already more valuable than Jhoan Duran for 60 IP at 7-8 million dollars next year.
Tait has the potential to be an all star when, in 2030 at soonest? I’ll check back in then.
Abel has the potential to save the Twins $8m or so a year because they won’t have to sign next year’s Chris Paddack. Forgive me if I’m not thrilled.
Abel is 23 and has MLB experience. Go look at his MLB game logs from this season. The narrative is that he had one good start against the Pirates but he also faced Toronto, Cubs, Mets and the Padres.
Also Chris Paddack is second in MIN in IP this season so it’s hard to see the idea of getting a legitimate back end starting pitcher to eat 140 innings as an unnecessary thing.
Abel has been pitching professionally since 2021 and has never produced good results at any level. ZiPS puts him at a 5.43 ERA rest of season. Oh boy!
That’s the thing – Abel and Tait are both lotto tickets. They are “If this pumpkin turns into a magical carriage we’ll be looking good” bets. In Abel’s case, it’s if he can finally unlock something he has demonstrably not unlocked during his minor league career, and in Tait’s case it’s if he can have a passable hit tool and become adequate defensively.
If the lotto ticket doesn’t hit, you’ve got a bullpen piece and AAA catcher depth.
And a 4.77 next season and a 4.5 the season after.
He’s also having a very good season this year. Across both levels he has a 3.0 ERA across 19 starts and a 1.212 WHIP.
I’m not advocating this is a top end starter, but the value of a 24 year old coming off a full, healthy season of 140 IP across MLB and AAA is way higher than you’re implying.
“How do you know these are bad players? Are you a major league scout? GM?”
If that’s the argument then I guess no one should comment on anything here, should they, because no one is credentialed?
“Pete Crow Armstrong would be a bad player then when the Cubs traded for him.”
This is not accurate. PCA was a much higher rated prospect, with an incomplete hit tool but several other tools that had a decent change of carrying him (elite defense, above average power) to some sort of major league role.
I’m just not sold on Abel as the headliner for an elite reliever w 1.5 years of control. To give the benefit of a doubt – maybe the Padres are the outlier here and there is just no stomach in front offices for putting top 50 prospects on the table. But if that’s the case, then just keep your guy, enjoy his production and take a comp pick when he walks!
Also, three years of control.
Here’s one positive for Minnesota- I didn’t see injuries listed anywhere in Tait’s profile, so there’s a chance he doesn’t join the Buxton/Correa/Lewis/Jenkins/Rodriguez quintet of “great, but, always hurt”.
As a Detroit fan, I’m disappointed they wouldn’t top this offer for Duran. They could have easily put together a bigger package with guys closer to MLB. Of course, maybe Minnesota didn’t want to trade Duran to a division rival.
Sorry Michael but the Phillies did not give up a lot. Not sure why you think this, even after reading your article. Abel has had one half of a good year and is more hr prone than Nola. Tait is not a good defensive catcher, in fact many prospect writers have indicated he will likely move off catcher he is so bad.
I believe he is well aware and this is obviously the publicly printed fluff piece in order to distract the good people of Minnesota of the absolute fleecing they just received. Meanwhile there’s a screen dedicated to Jhoan highlights on repeat somewhere whilst maniacal cackling ensues.
Which half year of Abel’s was good? I can’t see one.
I suppose we’re talking about the 74 innings where he had half his career HR/FB rate and a huge strand rate?
Michael, please publish your list of Midwest League cities by their ability to inspire depression.
I don’t really think the 100% win right now Phillies gave up a lot to get a very good closer they desperately need.
18 year old catcher definitely could be the next Cal Raleigh…or more likely ends up nothing significant like the majority of prospects.
Maybe Abel figures it out…but maybe he doesn’t.
It might be true that due to the inherent riskiness of 18-year-old catchers, the Phillies didn’t give up a lot. But what about the riskiness of a flame-throwing relief pitcher? Any hard-throwing pitcher can have their UCL blow up at any time. And it’s rare for dominant relief pitchers to stay dominant year after year.
It’s obviously very far from a sure thing that Tait is going to hit like Cal Raleigh for the Twins in 2029, but it’s also far from a sure thing that Durán is going to pitch like Durán for the Phillies in 2027. There are already trends going in the wrong direction. Durán’s mean 4-seam velo was 101.8 in 2023, 100.2 this year. xFIP- was 53 in 2022, 64 in 2023, 71 so far in 2025.
It’s still a good trade for the Phillies because they’re going to the postseason this year and Durán is good this year, but it’s not out of the question that the Twins get more WAR/WPA from Mick Abel from 2026-2027 than the Phillies get out of Durán.
“It’s not out of the question” that the Twins might eventually break even on this trade. That’s a terrible trade.
Maybe I could have written it in a clearer way, but that’s not what I wrote. The thing that I said was “not out of the question” is the Twins breaking even on the trade *without accounting for Tait*. I don’t think the chance of that happening is near 50%, which is why Durán for Abel 1-for-1 would have been a terrible trade for the Twins.
I take your point, I just hate it.
4/5 starters are freely available every offseason for something like 1/10m.
Tait is a long shot lottery ticket, and the lottery drawing isn’t for another 5 years.
I feel bad for Duran, Phillies closer is the baseball equivalent of Spinal Tap’s drummer, I give him a week before he mysteriously explodes
This deal has now become even worse for MN with the follow up Bader trade. Package Bader and Duran for a better return, rather than make separate deals for quantity over quality. They were never going to get a big return for Bader alone, but Bader + Duran had to have put Painter on table. Instead, it appears that MN has allowed Phi to frame these two deals in the way most advantageous to themselves.
Doesn’t work that way, you know that. Anyone can give a quarter for a stick of gum and a dollar for a candybar. Combining those won’t give you more than $1.25.
Plenty of prospects at different talent levels enables teams to pay for each veteran individually.
Not quite the right analogy, because, to extend the metaphor a bit in baseball a $1.25 bill is worth more than five quarters. Sure, you’re getting the same total, but in a meaningfully different configuration.
They got a 50 (Tait) and 45 (Abel) for Duran. (Going by other prospect outlets, not Longenhagen.) They got what, a 35+ or 40 for Bader?
Combining those is not going to get you a 55 or 2 50’s. That’s worth a lot more than what they got. And this never happens, because like the guy with coins of all denominations in his pocket, even the weakest farm systems have a 50, a 45+, a couple 45’s, and a bunch of 40’s and 35’s. They don’t need to combine anything.
I am pretty sure that Tait isn’t a 50, unless it was mentioned in the article and I missed it.
Baseball Trade Rumors said that BA, BP, and MLBP all have Tait somewhere around the 55th best prospect. Eric Longenhagen is having a very tough deadline with a lot of prospects seemingly coming in at different realized values than his. He’s low on Tait and De Vries and maybe a bunch of prospects in the reliever trades which make those look cheap. He’s high on Gilbert and Tidwell and maybe the guy Toronto gave up for Bieber.
I mean…it certainly doesn’t look like he was low on De Vries, given that SD traded him for a reliever!
I sincerely doubt that they could get Painter.
But I do think they should have gotten a lot more.
Welp, there goes Correa. This elevator only goes to the basement (and someone’s made an awful mess down there).
Maybe the Twins will be relevant again this decade, but the outlook is poor.
If I’m Buxton, I’m thinking really hard about waiving that NTC right about now.
Five closers, all with about 20 saves, have been traded this week. Duran, Helsley, Finnegan, Bednar and Miller. Combined, they have two post season saves (both by Duran). Kenley Jansen also has 20 saves and a WAR higher than any of the five. He has 20 post season saves. It seems more than a little unlikely that he’ll add to that post season save total with the Angels and as a 37 year old free agent to be, it’s perplexing that they didn’t try to move him.