FanGraphs Chat – 3/26/14

Dave Cameron: Welcome to the last pre-season chat of the year. The queue is now open, and we’ll talk Positional Power Rankings, Opening Day, or any other non-fantasy subject you’d like to tackle.

Comment From Roenis Elias
Ummm… who the hell am I?

Dave Cameron: A non-prospect being pushed into a rotation spot because an organization failed to actually build real depth over the winter.

Comment From SRN
Do you put any value in Moustakas’ Spring performance? Any reason (yet) to suspect he’ll outperform projections?

Dave Cameron: No and no.

Comment From the Average Sports Fan
The Reds not a top 15 rotation? Please explain.

Dave Cameron: They were tied with the Orioles, so realistically, they could have been #15 but lost the coin flip.

Comment From Kris
Starling’s deal buys out two pre-arb, 3 arb, and 1 FA season… at $31mm. This is a steal for Pitt, isn’t it?

Dave Cameron: Yes.

Dave Cameron: A big one, perhaps.

Comment From Nate
Help me understand the M’s Re: Randy Wolf. They give Cano $240M and then yank Wolf around over what? $700k??
If they don’t want him on the rotation, release him. If they do, then sign him without the 45-day thing!
Stay classy Z!

Dave Cameron: it comes off very poorly, no doubt, and certainly feeds into the idea that they care more about finances than winning. But let’s be honest; Randy Wolf probably sucks. There are free agents out there better than him, and if they sign Chris Young or Freddy Garcia or someone of that ilk, they’re likely better off than if they had kept Wofl.

Comment From Brad
Thoughts on texas #3 position? I figured they be middle of pack at best, and if Yu missed significant time, they are near the bottom. What am I missing? Thanks.

Dave Cameron: As Jeff noted, the projections for Scheppers are Ross were loaded as if they were going to be relievers, and haven’t been updated to reflect that they were moved into the rotation. The numbers are overrating those two, basically.

Comment From Go Sawx
Please tell me I’m not the only one who thinks that the Yankees do not ACTUALLY have the 4th-best pitching staff (as per the positional power rankings)?!?!

Dave Cameron: I’m sure you’re not the only one who thinks that. The projections still like Sabathia a lot, though, and love Tanaka. Kuroda and Nova are in the running for best 3/4 in baseball. It’s not ridiculous if you think CC is still very good.

Comment From Justin
Thoughts on Marte deal?

Dave Cameron: Selling two free agent years and giving the Pirates two option years means he’s pushed back his free agent window by four years. For $31 million. That’s kind of crazy.

Comment From Tim
If you had to pick one team in the bottom 10 of playoff odds (ARI, MIL, PHI, NYM, BAL, CHW, MIA, CHC, MIN, HOU)to make the playoffs, which would it be?

Dave Cameron: Probably the D’Backs, since the NL Wild Card is pretty wide open.

Comment From Bret
The Blue Jays have announced their bench: Maicer Izturis, Moises Sierra and Josh Thole. Should this be considered a crime?

Dave Cameron: They’re only keeping three bench guys? Really?

Comment From thisguy
Everyone seems to have decided the Nationals are going to run away with the East. They lost by 10 games last year. I’m not saying the Braves were really 10 games better than them last year, and the Nationals have gotten better while the Braves got worse. But has it really been a big enough swing to go from 10 games down to easily winning? It seems like the Braves should have some margin for error here.

Dave Cameron: You don’t use last year’s performance as the benchmark for this year’s performance.

Comment From _David_
Any wild theories about Franklin in the outfield yesterday?

Dave Cameron: No wild theories. They haven’t found a trade match for him, so they’re trying to figure out how to put him to use if they keep him.

Comment From _David_
If a team decided to offer 7 year extensions with team options to all their picks through round three as a grand gambling exercise, would it remove too much of the prospects’ motivation to develop and succeed?

Dave Cameron: CBA doesn’t allow teams to give major league contracts to draft picks anymore.

Dave Cameron: But, no, I don’t think it would affect their motivation. Guys play baseball because they love it and they are competitive, not just to steal a paycheck and then get lazy.

Comment From STiVo
What’s the latest word on Darvish’s injury?

Dave Cameron: Won’t start opening day, but doesn’t sound too serious.

Comment From Bernard Gilkey
Just because Volquez and Liriano are in similar situations going into Pittsburgh doesn’t automatically mean that Volquez is going to do well right?

Dave Cameron: Correct.

Comment From Jaack
Is the the worst week of the offseason or the best week of the offseason?

Dave Cameron: Considering how many Positional Power Rankings pieces I’ve edited, I’m going with worst.

Comment From Ringtone Composer
Is a league-average hitter roughly equivalent to a replacement-level bat for a DH?

Dave Cameron: Yeah, if you’re a strictly DH type and you can’t hit better than average, you’re worth nothing, really.

Comment From JTV
Suprise team in the NL/AL? Can the Pirates take it all ths year?

Dave Cameron: 2 Wild Cards make it tough for there to really be a “surprise team”, since any team even anywhere near the bubble goes for it and tries to win now. Are the Angels a “surprise team” since they were bad last year? What about the Blue Jays? I think both could be contenders, but they were projected favorites last year, so they seem like bad surprise picks.

Comment From john
rangers need 2b and plan to compete… what would daniel murphy return?

Dave Cameron: Probably not a ton. I don’t think anyone in MLB likes him as much as WAR does.

Comment From Ringtone Composer
Which position is the hardest to get “right” in the positional rankings series? Jeff pointed out several issues with the SP rankings, such as converting relievers’ projections into starters’ projections. (I would imagine playing time projections are also nearly impossible for SP.)

Dave Cameron: SP or C, for sure. There’s a bunch of stuff about catchers that WAR doesn’t capture, but with SP, there’s so many moving parts.

Comment From Drew
Can you explain the rankings systems? If a player is set to alternate between OF spots, will he only get pro-rated WAR at each position? My point is, if a good player is set to rotate between RF and CF, could that stunt the rankings if he’s only getting 1.5 WAR at each?

Dave Cameron: It reflects where the value will actually come from. Ben Zobrist is valuable, but he’s not going to be the best 2B or the best RF.

Comment From The Oriole Bird
Was there a positional ranking that really shocked you? As a homer, I was surprised to see the Orioles as 14th-best in CF, with Adam Jones’ getting 85% of the plate appearances.

Dave Cameron: I don’t know about shocked, but as soon as I saw the Braves rotation come out 23rd, I knew we were going to hear it from ATL fans.

Comment From Z
Can you expound a little more on how stats like wRC+ are park-adjusted? Is it basically that the unadjusted runs created for a player on a given day are multiplied by the park factors in which that game was played? And if so, is every outcome that generated the run multiplied by that outcome’s specific factor in that park? In other words, would differing stat lines that happened to result in identical total unadjusted runs created in a game in the same stadium by two players result in different weighted runs since each different outcome (2B, 3B, HR, K, etc.) has a different factor in the same park?

Dave Cameron: wRC+ uses the overall runs park factor, not the component park factors. Just because a park makes a certain outcome – say, triples – more scarce doesn’t make them more valuable. wRC+ is trying to measure the value of a player’s performance, not neutralize the components into a league average setting.

Comment From Anon21
Is the extent to which the Tigers are depending on their starting rotation (generally the biggest injury center for a baseball team) an underrated source of downside risk for their season?

Dave Cameron: Any team that is pitching heavy has more downside risk than a team that has value tied up in their bats or defense.

Comment From Zach
Dave, I haven’t seen anything from you on USSMariner to this effect, but I’m wondering if you’re harboring a bit of optimism (scary!) about this year’s Mariners team? Not that they look great, but the rest of the AL West doesn’t project to be super imposing…

Dave Cameron: I like the rest of the division opponents more than the projections do.

Comment From Toss up
Charlottesville, Virginia or Asheville, North Carolina?

Dave Cameron: Depends on the point of the trip. I love Asheville, and have only spent a little bit of time in Charlotesville, but I’m guessing you’re picking between colleges, and so your decision should be based on more things than which I one I prefer visiting on the weekends.

Comment From Voey Jotto
Most sabr-savvy writers are good at not being a jerk in discussions with non-stats informed people, but do you ever get worn out from those discussions? Like a moment of frustrating clarity where you just shake your head that RBIs are still being used and people just refuse to “get it”?

Dave Cameron: I generally try to assess early whether people are interested in having a discussion that might lead to both sides learning something, or if they just want to argue. If it’s the latter, I don’t even bother.

Comment From Marcus A.
Not as a “best interest of the game” thing, but strictly as a fan do you like the season starting earlier out of country?

Dave Cameron: Nope.

Comment From Steve
Angels surprise division winner this year??

Dave Cameron: We have them as the favorites right now, so I don’t know if that’s a surprise, really.

Comment From Curious George
Top 3 picks for 2014 AL ROY?

Dave Cameron: Tanaka/Abreu/distant runner up.

Comment From Dan Uggla
I’ve looked better this spring, think I can post a .340+ OBP with 25+ homers and near 3 wins in 2014?

Dave Cameron: I’ll go with no. Anything is possible, but that’s a rosy forecast for an old guy with a slow bat.

Comment From zack
Do the injuries the A’s and the Ranger’s have suffered given the Mariner’s a decent chance at winning the decision?

Dave Cameron: It’s not like the Mariners are at full strength either.

Comment From Ed
Could Chris Capuano become available if he doesn’t make the Red Sox rotation or are they going to stash him in the bullpen as a long reliever?

Dave Cameron: Pretty sure he signed there knowing he would be a reliever unless someone got hurt.

Comment From cincy homer
Re: the Reds that isn’t an explanation. Please explain why Cueto, Latos, Bailey, Cingrani, Leake don’t constitute one of the best five-man rotations around. That ranking is contrarian nuttiness.

Dave Cameron: Latos is hurt, Cueto is frequently hurt, there is zero depth, and they don’t have anything even close to a true #1 starter.

Comment From Tom
Hints of some roster moves for the M’s coming today. Have any ideas or guesses what it might be?

Dave Cameron: If they don’t sign Chris Young, I’ll be surprised.

Comment From Sam
Sure, the Royals’ lineup is improved, but it’s still not elite by any means. Given this, does KC’s rotation all but preclude them from playoff contention? I see James Shields, then a cliff-like drop off to a rotation full of risky options that are 4s – at best. Am I over concerned?

Dave Cameron: Yeah, I don’t really see them as a particularly good team.

Comment From Jon
The Braves SP is far too low, even with the injuries. I wouldn’t even count on Alex Wood so much, but Teheran is underrated, as is Santana and Minor’s impact. Has to be the biggest flaw in the projection, right?

Dave Cameron: “I disagree with this” is not the same thing as “this is flawed”

Comment From Mike C
What do you think the Rangers would have to give up for Rickie Weeks? This seems like a good fit – would the Brewers trade Weeks for essentially nothing to gain salary relief?

Dave Cameron: Yeah, he’s a giveaway at this point.

Comment From Z
Is there a relatively straightforward way to adjust a projection for a given batter against a given pitcher? Suppose righty Batter A has an expected .340 wOBA against LHP. He faces a lefty, Pitcher B, who has an expected wOBA against righties of .290. Playing in a neutral park, what is an expected wOBA for this at-bat?

Dave Cameron: .315, or something very close to it.

Comment From The Oriole Bird
Who is more likely to be terrible in 2014, in your estimation: Trevor Bauer or Billy Hamilton?

Dave Cameron: Bauer, without hesitation.

Comment From jocephus
swydan thinks matheny is stupid for putting martinez and rosenthal in bullpen instead of trying to start (last nights chat)…your thoughts?

Dave Cameron: I disagree. I think they have five good starters as is, and if Garcia comes back healthy, they have no real need for either one in the rotation.

Comment From David
And can you give thoughts on the Marte deal from the Pirates perspective?

Dave Cameron: WOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dave Cameron: Or something like that.

Comment From Boomer
The costs of knuckleballers question – Is having R.A. Dickey worth it, if it means it means playing Josh Thole and carrying him on roster?

Dave Cameron: There’s more evidence that having a knuckler makes the rest of your pitchers better than there is that there’s a huge cost to having to carry a specific backup catcher.

Dave Cameron: So, yes, having Dickey is worth it.

Comment From Bo
The subtraction of Freddy Garcia and addition of Aaron Harang is _____.

Dave Cameron: A push.

Comment From john
If you are the mets, giving the higher probability of pitcher injuries, why wouldnt you just trade montero for franklin?

Dave Cameron: Not if I don’t think Franklin can play SS, which I don’t.

Comment From Mike C
How much of an injustice is it to baseball fans everywhere that Joe Kelly is starting over Carlos Martinez? My MLB.tv viewing pleasure has significantly decreased.

Dave Cameron: Joe Kelly is fine and Carlos Martinez is probably better off as a reliever.

Comment From Bryan
As a Reds fan, these positional power rankings have been really disappointing. Are the Reds really expected to do that poorly? They’re currently projected to be one of the worst 10 teams based on WAR.

Dave Cameron: The forecasts think they’re a .500 team, maybe a little worse. They punted on an off-season where they needed to make real improvements.

Comment From PS
Which out of Ross or Scheppers has the best shot to actually stick as a starter?

Dave Cameron: Ross.

Comment From MSW
I’m mildly surprised the Mets came in at #29 for SP. I didn’t think they’d be in the top half of the league, but pitching is widely considered to be their strength. Is it just that they’re fielding a rotation with more filler than their top arms? How would you explain this disconnect? Thanks!

Dave Cameron: If they put Mejia and Syndergaard in the rotation, they wouldn’t be 29th.

Comment From Mike C
I know in the podcast, you stated that people hated the organizational rankings, but I really liked them. Any possibility they could be rolled out in the future again?

Dave Cameron: People didn’t hate the org rankings, but I felt like they had used up their usefulness, at least in that format. We’ve talked about doing some kind of org rankings using another method, but haven’t figured out the best way yet.

Comment From CC Sabathia
I’m over 60 WAR for my career. Am I close to being a Hall of Famer?

Dave Cameron: The 60 WAR bar is more for position players than pitchers. You probably have a ways to go still.

Comment From kevinthecomic
Writing Question: What do you look for when you edit an article, other than factual errors and spelling mistakes?

Dave Cameron: Tone, evidence to support claims, making sure key points aren’t omitted.

Comment From Johnny Moses
Let’s briefly bring revisit the good old days of championing overlooked guys: Which AAAA player, marginal prospect, or bench player would you like to see get a chance at earning a regular MLB job?

Dave Cameron: Scott Van Slyke, maybe.

Comment From Nick
I don’t think 23rd for ATL rotation is crazy considering their injuries. I’d take the over on Santana providing +1.4 WAR, though.

Dave Cameron: Yeah, that forecast is actually flawed because of the signing date. Feel free to bump him up to +2 to +2.5.

Comment From Ryan
Is there a way to strip away defense and just get the offensive WAR for a player? wrc+ is great for comparing to league average but doesn’t give us WAR.

Dave Cameron: Go to the value section, subtract out FLD from the RAR column, and then divide by 10 to turn RAR into WAR. It’t not a very good idea, but that’s how you’d do it.

Comment From JBD
I just noticed that King Felix is projected by ZiPS to have 0.8 more WAR than Kershaw in one fewer inning pitched than Clayton. Surprising?

Dave Cameron: FIP-based WAR underrates Kershaw.

Comment From Timothy
If Uggla tanks first couple months, Braves make a move for a 2B? Is a trade for Franklin or Miller realistic?

Dave Cameron: They’ll just call up La Stella.

Comment From Bo
Judge this hypothetical from 1 (completely stupid) to 5 (worth considering): A team loads its infield with defense-only players (like shortstops) and its pitching staff with GB heavy pitchers.

Dave Cameron: No reason to waste SS range at 1B. Be better off getting two crazy good defensive OFs and then putting a rover behind the 2B bag in short CF.

Comment From IndianaMike
Are you aware of any current MLB players who have embraced statistics such as WAR, wRC+, etc. as a means for judging personal improvement and goals as opposed to the standard metrics in the box score?

Dave Cameron: Yeah, there are a few who really buy into this way of measuring themselves.

Comment From TKDC
As a Braves fan I have to say I’m not at all surprised our rotation looks bad in the projections, and I wouldn’t be surprised if it just isn’t that good this year.

Dave Cameron: Please hold a town hall and convince your fellow Braves fans.

Comment From JoeD
To touch on that other chatter’s comment — how come so little activity at USSM? Will your activity pick up there with season starting?

Dave Cameron: To be honest, I don’t know. This sabbatical wasn’t really planned; it just happened. Jeff asked me if I had officially retired from writing about the Mariners, and I didn’t have an answer for him.

Comment From Professor Ross Eforp
How does the Carlos Santana as full-time 3B experiment end?

Dave Cameron: With him as a full time 3B.

Comment From Ryan
Where do you think Seager settles in Seattle’s lineup…2-hole, cleanup or 5th?

Dave Cameron: My guess is he ends up hitting 5th.

Comment From Matt
I’m an Indians fan, but I think Bogaerts has a pretty solid shot to be more than a “distant runner up” in ROY.

Dave Cameron: Okay, sure, he’d be the best of the non-old-guy ROY candidates.

Comment From Table
Don’t you think homer Bailey is being underrated by projection systems? I think 2013 was a step forward not a fluke career year

Dave Cameron: You generally don’t want to count on a guy repeating the best year of his career. It doesn’t have to be a fluke to be unsustainable.

Comment From Marcus A.
Chris Young is better than Randy Wolf by a ways? Isn’t he?

Dave Cameron: Yeah, probably.

Comment From Timothy
Why do playing time predictions in the depth charts tend to lean toward the conservative side?

Dave Cameron: Because players get hurt.

Comment From Marcus A.
Are Braves fans the most touchy? They seem the most touchy.

Dave Cameron: I don’t know that we have a touchy+ metric, but if we did, I think ATL would be #1, yes.

Comment From Nick
Seems like Towers got more crap than he deserved for his Bauer/Upton deals last winter, agree?

Dave Cameron: Yep, and I said that all last winter too.

Comment From Wobatus
Re: Sabathia and Yankee starting pitching rank. Spring stats mean nothing, but (as Jeff wrote): 2013 spring CC was coming off elbow procedure, 10 ip, 6 Ks, 4 BB. This spring 17 IP, 16 Ks, 3 BB. I don’t think velocity will be back necessarily, but I like him to come closer to his career numbers. Also, itbsohl!

Dave Cameron: It’s worth noting that Steamer and ZIPS both take velocity into account on their pitcher forecasts. And they still like CC.

Comment From Interrobang
As a general matter, previous information does not get discarded in good analysis. But at what point are a player’s prospect valuations essentially meaningless?

Dave Cameron: Probably after ~5 years of performance, something like that.

Dave Cameron: They’re never entirely meaningless, but they stop holding a lot of weight after a while.

Comment From A. Lane
Any off the cuff estimate on Didi Gregorious’s trade value, is it more or less than Franklin’s?

Dave Cameron: I think more, because he can actually play SS.

Comment From StartWedman
Does Archie Bradley have a G Cole like impact this year in AZ? Or is his pedigree slightly better?

Dave Cameron: Worse, I think. I’m not buying the Bradley hype just yet. Too many command issues, and people seem to be putting too much stock on his minor league ERAs.

Comment From Steve
Kelly has a career 108 FIP- and xFIP-. So you don’t think Carlos Martinez could better that as a starter? If not he’s been drastically, drastically overrated by every prospect site.

Dave Cameron: I think Kelly can be better than that, and Martinez not dramatically better.

Comment From Guest
Are teams better than the public at forecasting injuries? Has there been much improvement over the past 10 years?

Dave Cameron: Better, sure, but we all suck at it.

Comment From Ryan
Who wins the ChiSox closing gig?

Dave Cameron: Nate Jones.

Comment From Justin
Why do so many fans take objective projections and rankings personally? You would think fans of a site like fangraphs would understand a bit better that you have no particular biases or motives in your analysis.

Dave Cameron: No, we hate everyone. All writers do. We live to make everyone angry.

Comment From matt
What do you think of the Pirates most likely going with Travis Ishikawa?

Dave Cameron: Not buying it until he actually takes the field on Opening Day.

Comment From Chris
Where does the tendon come from for guys getting thier 2nd TJ surgery?

Dave Cameron: Well, you have two hamstrings, right?

Comment From Hoonose
Ivan Nova: Super sleeper dark horse Cy Young candidate?

Dave Cameron: Basically have to be best pitcher on your own team to win Cy Young, and little chance he’s NYY’s best starter.

Comment From Daniel
As a Mariners fan, I find it laughable to think they’ll have the 7th best rotation in baseball. Tell me why I’m wrong.

Dave Cameron: I don’t think it’s laughable, since Felix/Iwakuma are both very good, but yeah, I’ll take the under on that too. By a lot.

Comment From Drew
For WAR, how was the runs-to-wins ratio determined?

Dave Cameron: Pythagenpat.

Comment From Sorry for morbid question
Do you have any idea what kinds of contingency planning MLB has in place in case, god forbid, some disaster occurred to an entire roster, like a plane crash?

Dave Cameron: I believe the CBA has a clause allowing for a dispersal draft in case of something catastrophic.

Comment From Dave
Pirates rotation projected to be worse than the Cubs and Angels, I would say they have one of the best chances to outperform their ranking, right?

Dave Cameron: I think so, but a lot of it depends on Francisco Liriano staying healthy, which isn’t a great bet.

Comment From Joe
Should the Royals make a move for Franklin?

Dave Cameron: No? Omar Infante is just fine.

Comment From Catoblepas
re the hypothetical about an infield of all shortstops: at what positions is it easiest to generate defensive value? Can the best-fielding first baseman approach a solid second baseman? What is the range like?

Dave Cameron: 1B is probably easiest spot to generate value, because there are some total defensive nothings that drag down the average. 1Bs aren’t really part of the 2B/SS/ pool very often.

Dave Cameron: A very good defensive 1B who throws right-handed could probably be an okay 3B.

Dave Cameron: Assuming the arm strength is there.

Comment From chuckb
Tony Blengino is awesome, first of all. It’s pretty clear that he uses some non-fangraphs-available stats in his pieces, right? Can you tell us if these are publicly available, are his personal numbers, or are otherwise proprietary? It’s fantastic stuff but it’s not clear where his data is coming from. Thanks.

Dave Cameron: He worked in a Major League front office. He had access to stuff that we don’t.

Comment From Ed
Is your USSM sabbatical driven more by your workload with Fangraphs or your overall depression regarding the state of the Mariners? (Pick one!)

Dave Cameron: Probably workload. I really like my job a lot, and I put a lot of pride into doing it as well as I can, but when you work a lot, you don’t really want your hobby to be the same thing as your job.

Comment From Steve
Regarding writing for the Mariners — dare I say you’re becoming disinterested in them as a fan? Or just literally tired of writing about them?

Dave Cameron: A little bit of both. I also just don’t know what I have to say about them that is new or interesting.

Comment From Nick
Do you think Max Scherzer is making a good performance-related gamble? Assuming Boras is right that he has a substantial insurance policy to cover the injury risk

Dave Cameron: If he wants to maximize dollars, yes.

Comment From Joseph (Orlando)
If you saw Jayson Werth on the street would you give him $1?

Dave Cameron: He’s way richer than I am, so no.

Comment From john
re:Didi vs. Franklin – even as a glove first player? Aren’t glove first SS easy to find?

Dave Cameron: Not ones who can hit well enough to be regulars.

Dave Cameron: You can’t just say “glove first SS” and assume that they’re all equally valuable.

Dave Cameron: Andrelton Simmons is a “glove first SS”. So is Cesar Izturis.

Comment From George Springer
Do I have 40/40 potential?

Dave Cameron: Yes, if those categories are strikeouts looking and strikeouts swinging.

Comment From Mike
If Scherzer posts an identical 2014 to his 2013 and survives with a clean bill of health, how much more than the 6/$144 he reportedly turned down do you see him getting on the open market?

Dave Cameron: 7/175ish.

Comment From chuckb
How does having a knuckler on your staff make your other pitchers better?

Dave Cameron: There’s some evidence that hitters timing is screwed up by having a knuckler in the series. There was a community post about this a few months back.

Comment From Wobatus
I’m was going to make brandade de morue for dinner and had no space in the fridge so I left the salt cod to soak on the counter. Should I eat it or toss it?

Dave Cameron: Yeah, I wouldn’t eat fish that sat on the counter for too long.

Comment From Grant
Over/under 85 wins for the Yankees this season?

Dave Cameron: Over.

Comment From Braves Fan
Re a very good defensive 1B who throws right handed could probably be an okay 3B — Freddie Freeman reportedly has a really strong arm, do you think he will ever move to 3B after Chris Johnson leaves ATL?

Dave Cameron: No.

Comment From Henry
If you had to pick one current/former player who is the face of ” sabermetrics” and one former/current player who is the face of the old school. Who would they be?

Dave Cameron: It’s either Votto or McCarthy, right? Old school is probably Cabrera, simply because he does the things that old school folks love.

Dave Cameron: Okay, off to get some lunch and play with the dog.

Dave Cameron: Thanks for hanging out today everyone.