Let’s Dream on Cristian Pache
While employed as a beat reporter, one thing I learned from photographers is the virtue of patience. One has to keep paying attention, keep triggering the digital camera’s capture button, or risk missing a memorable moment, the best moment of a career. Photographers are fishing, really. There is no DVR playback in live-image capturing.
Only shaky video from a handheld smartphone captured the moment on Tuesday evening.
If it weren’t for Ashley’s wherewithal to employ her phone’s video option, the world might have missed Cristian Pache’s second professional home run. All those who were not present at SunTrust Park had already missed his first. Each occurred on Tuesday night in Atlanta.
Nowadays it seems everything that happens in major-league baseball is captured by high-definition camera. But the Braves’ final exhibition game against a contingent of their minor leaguers at SunTrust Park on Tuesday night was not televised. It was an exhibition, a final warm-up the club dubbed as the Braves vs. Future Stars. We will have only the oral histories to document what happened. And something remarkable did happen.
No, it wasn’t that real Braves needed a two-run sixth to beat their top prospects by a run, a collection of prospects that included Pache and Ronald Acuna in the outfield together and batting one after the other in the lineup. (Yes, Braves Nation, be excited.) What was remarkable was Pache entered the night with no home runs in 750 minor-league plate appearances or in the 10 occasions he stepped in the right-handed batter’s box in Grapefruit League play this spring.
Pache hit two Tuesday night, each off of a legit arm in Sean Newcomb.
Why does this matter? Pache is potentially the most important swing-changer of the spring.
Hyperbole? Perhaps, but maybe not. While many swing-changers, to date, have been corner-type bats who have been compelled to improve offensive efficiency to remain in the game, that’s not Pache at all. Pache is an elite-level defender and runner. What would happen if that sort of player successfully transformed his swing? He might become a superstar, is what.
No public evaluators were higher on Pache than FanGraphs’ own Kiley McDaniel and Eric Longenhagen, who ranked Pache No. 36 on their preseason top-100 list. (Keith Law is also bullish on Pache, ranking him 57th.)
For those asking, Kyle Muller hit 97 last night on scouts guns as well, worked mostly 94-97. And as if the results weren’t enough evidence, Cristian Pache has made a swing change.
— Kiley McDaniel (@kileymcd) March 28, 2018
The question about Pache is his power — and, to a lesser degree, his hit tool.
Pache is almost Byron Buxton in the field. He has an 80 grade on his speed, a 70 on his arm, and Kiley and Eric project the present 70 glove to become an 80. Bobby Cox agrees.
When Bobby Cox was discussing his team of prospects for tonight, Cristian Pache got extreme praise for his defense. Bobby called Pache "one of the most dynamic defensive players I've ever seen." That's some high praise. Because it's not hyperbole. The kid is very good. #Braves
— Grant McAuley (@grantmcauley) March 28, 2018
This is what our prospect gurus wrote of Pache back in February:
Pache drew a $1.5 million bonus as a 16-year-old in 2015. He’s a perfect example of the reward in signing a top July 2nd prospect, as his tools have taken a huge step forward since signing: his run grade jumped from 60 to 80, his arm from 60 to 70, his raw power from 45 to 55, while he’s also become arguably the best defender at any position in all of minor-league baseball.
The only issue for Pache is tweaking the mechanics of his swing. He needs to lift the ball more and have a stronger base to tap into some of his power and allow his athleticism to play. These are fixable things, he’s just turned 19, he has plenty of hitting tools to survive until this point on them alone. The Braves rave about his makeup and coachability, while his athleticism would be world class in any sport. With little improvement, he’s a Kevin Pillar two- or three-win type defensive specialist and his upside is a six-plus-win type perennial All-Star.
What intrigued me about their tool grades beyond the athleticism and glove our pair’s assessment of Pache’s raw power: a present power grade of 55 (game power 20/40) for a player who had yet not hit a ball out of a professional ballpark?
While many players develop power as they mature, there are some who never do. Billy Hamilton will never be a power threat, for example. Pache might be, though. The human scouting eye still matters a great deal. A projection system is not going to know about Pache’s swing change. It cannot fully appreciate his athleticism and growth potential. It’s going to see zero home runs in 750 plate appearances.
But Pache has raw power to unlock. He’s a 6-foot-2, 190-pound premium athlete who is only going to become stronger.
And Pache has been working on changing his swing, as Dave O’Brien reported earlier this spring for the Atlanta Journal-Constitution.
He’s reportedly hitting from a stronger base and trying to hit fewer ground balls. He might have already been making some adjustments, as his GB/FB fell from 3.75 in Rookie ball in 2016 to 1.86 in A-ball last season.
Kiley and Eric suggested Pache could be a six-win player if the power becomes average and the hit tool plays. If Pache becomes a six-win player, imagine that player with Acuna in the Braves outfield for the better part of the next decade.
Pache has been driving the ball better all spring. There just isn’t much video evidence of it.
#Braves OF prospect Cristian Pache showing off his improving bat in the cage earlier today.#ChopOn pic.twitter.com/UGUsOJ2yWb
— Bally Sports: Braves (@BravesOnBally) March 28, 2018
While Tuesday’s contest was just an exhibition, he still brought power into a game in a way he never had in his professional, albeit brief, career.
While Vladimir Guerrero Jr. did something impossibly awesome Tuesday night, we knew he could hit dingers. We didn’t know if Pache could. Now we know it’s possible. Now the Braves and their fans can really dream.
Okay, okay, it’s early. Get a hold of yourself, Travis. It’s two swings. I get it. But we might be seeing a real skill jump from one of the most interesting prospects in the game this spring. And prospecting is about dreaming, projecting — and Pache remains, arguably, the most interesting prospect in the game to project. Let’s dream a little.
A Cleveland native, FanGraphs writer Travis Sawchik is the author of the New York Times bestselling book, Big Data Baseball. He also contributes to The Athletic Cleveland, and has written for the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, among other outlets. Follow him on Twitter @Travis_Sawchik.
I’ve been pretty high on Christian Pache since last year. I loved him in spite of his swing, which was kind of funky and complicated at the time. Of course, I was largely high on him because of his elite speed, defense, and athleticism. I was just hoping he could become and elite Center Fielder and terror on the base paths while hovering around a 100 wRC+.
Now, reports of his newly revamped swing mechanics, which adds loft, simplifies his mechanics and allows him to tap into his power has me indulging delusions of grandeur. I’m dreaming on a 2020 Braves lineup that starts:
Pache
Albies
Acuña
Freeman
Riley
Swanson
Enciarte
Jackson/Cumberland
Pitcher
There are names on that list that could easily go the wrong way, but if they each hit their ceilings, that is a fairly stout lineup.
I suspect Inciarte is traded if Pache is up in 2020, unless Pache’s bat makes an insane evolution to be able to play in a corner.
If you add some prospects to Inciarte, he becomes insanely valuable on the trade market, maybe to add a big-time power bat for LF, a 3B if Riley doesn’t work out (or they don’t sign Machado), or an elite young C if none of the prospects there pan out.
The Braves aren’t signing Machado or Donaldson. I’m indulging delusions of grandeur, not absurdity. I’m thinking maybe they make a serious run at a Dallas Keuchel, or an Andrew Miller. But there is no way they outbid the big boys for the top Free Agents.
I think the Braves are going to go hard after Harper. I don’t think they’ll get him, but I think they’ll put forward a serious package that at least warrants consideration. Given the youth and talent on the team and consequent potential to contend for many years, along with a city with a good standard of living and less taxes than some of the other suitor locations, I think they at least have a dark horse chance at signing him. They’ll probably be in a tier of teams with a legitimate but small chance to get him just below the tier of something like three teams with a good chance to get him.
Do you really think a guy about to sign a $400 million deal cares about what his property taxes are going to be? He’ll spend all his tax savings on gas money to drive to a ballpark that was built in the middle of nowhere
Yes, otherwise he’d have an agent talking about a $250MM deal.
I doubt it as well, but they’ll have something like $60M in free payroll next year. It isn’t as crazy as you think.
The Braves have 38 million in committed payroll next year. they’ll have quite a bit more than 60m free.
With arbitration raises and such, they’ll have around $80 million committed. So $60 million or so is probably close.
Nah, you’re overestimating. Most of the Braves are not getting much in arbitration. Pretty much the only guy getting anything substantial would be Arodys Vizcaino. Everyone else is either pre-arb, early arb or not very good.
plus, the $43 million figure assumes they pick up McCarthy’s option (likely given it’s only $8 mil, but not a sure thing). Also Teheran or Vizcaino could easily get traded. So $80 million available is probably closer, and it could go higher than that.
Sorry about your taste in music Ashley.
Hey, two things.
1) Was going to mention the Inciarte bit. I love him, but Pache is one of just a handful of people on this blue planet who could conceivably move him off CF. And, well, as amazing as that OF defense would be, running a BABIP dependent ~95 wRC+ dude in a corner isn’t optimal. And seconded on the trade value thing for Ender.
2) More importantly, with all the treatises about how data will make scouts irrelevant, I just have to say that Kiley and Eric are amazing for taking a bold stance and — albeit in a small sample — being proven right on Pache’s power potential. You guys are a treasure and we’re so lucky to get to read about your work without even worrying about a paywall (which I would gladly pay for).
If you’d gladly pay for a paywall, I assume you pay the subscription to make a paywall future less likely?
I am! I do need to buy a t-shirt to flaunt my nerdiness though. I feel like the comments section on FG (for the most part) is one of the most thoughtful, self-policing sections on the web.
I get that a BABIP dependent ~96 wRC+ isn’t optimal in a corner outfield spot. But, unless we are indulging the fantasy of the Braves Signing Harper or swinging a trade for an Eloy Jiminez type prospect, I like him better than the current alternatives.
I think my diatribe was a bit unclear. I basically meant for 2020, a realistic year for Pache to be in the majors. That’s an Acuna/Pache/Inciarte OF. All world defensively, but Inciarte in a corner spot just seems like a hard sell. But we’re all dreaming on things right now, so who knows what Inciarte’s profile will be at that time.
Okay I will add one more thing, since we’re all gushing here. The Braves could conceivably have another #1 prospect in baseball in two-ish years when Vlad Jr graduates, if the power/hit really do emerge.
Has that ever happened before? Having two #1 prospects in such a short span? I’m thinking maybe so with Strasburg and then Harper, though memory rarely serves me.
The Rangers had Yu Darvish and Jurickson Profar back-to-back a few years ago. Profar is one of the few No. 1 guys to “bust.”
Fair enough, although Darvish didn’t really fit the traditional definition of a prospect in terms of his background, the stage of career he was at, or how he was acquired.
The Braves themselves did this a couple of times in the early 90’s. Steve Avery was BA #1 in 1990. Chipper was BA #1 in 1993 (plus 2nd in 94 and 3rd in 95) with Andruw being BA #1 in 96 and 97.
So while not back to back or even every other year I would say 3 BA #1 guys in a span of 7 years in impressive. Looking at those early 90’s lists you can see why they had such a dynasty. They hit on a good majority of their top prospects.
I think Hanson and Heyward were close
I gotta be honest, it’s hard to get excited for Pache as a six-win player in the non-injured-peak-Lorenzo-Cain mold when he had a 20% K rate in A ball and an ISO of .062.
Maybe I just don’t have any of the necessary optimistic spirit here, but it seems more likely that Pache’s change is what gets him to being the Kevin Pillar we hoped he would be, rather than the six-win player he would be in Kiley and Eric’s wildest dreams.
You realize Cain hit —
.276/.338/.344 // 95wRC+ // .068 ISO with an 18.2% K as a 21 year old in a full season of A+ ball.
And Pache just hit .281/.335/.343 // 98 wRC+ // .062 ISO with a 20.2% K as an 18 year old in full season A ball.
And Pache is considered to have better tools and raw power that was untapped due to his swing mechanics. If you look at Christian Pache in person he looks pretty big, probably closing in on 200 pounds. Nothing is for certain but he’s got way more offensive potential than Pillar while still having the same defensive chops as him.
Wait, so because one cherry-picked season of a non-prospect-who-unexpectedly-turned-into-a-star was similar to Pache’s largest body of record to date, that means that Pache is going to turn into that player? Or be better?
Let us try figuring this out with numbers. Here are the most similar seasons to Pache in terms of wRC+:
https://www.talkingchop.com/2018/2/14/17000546/a-pachexploration-part-3-cristian-pache-atlanta-braves-minor-leagues-prospects-regression-results.
Most similar players listed first:
Delvi Cid
Luis Sardinas
Jay Austin
Andrew Velazquez
Drew Cumberland
Hak-Ju Lee
Orlando Arcia
Reegie Corona
Teodoro Martinez
Elvis Andrus
Peter Hissey
Lee Haydel
Ketel Marte
Austin Jackson
Tyler Pastornicky
Jonathan Villar
Trayvon Robinson
Heiker Meneses
Jose Vallejo
Ender Inciarte
Yorman Rodriguez
Jose Vinicio
Shawn O’Malley
Anthony Gose
Julio Morban
Ehire Adrianza
Delta Cleary Jr
Cory Spangenberg
The players on that list who succeeded–which is basically just guys like Arcia, Andrus, Marte, Jackson, Villar, Inciarte, and Spangenberg–are guys who made adjustments like the one Pache is making right now. And even then, those guys are league-average or worse. That’s seven players out of 28 who had offense good enough to be major league regulars at some point, ranging from Kevin Pillar-level offense (Arcia) to Lorenzo Cain level offense (Jackson).
You also have 14 players who never made it, maybe a cup of coffee at best. 3 players who are non-prospects who have stalled out at the upper levels of the minors but aren’t out of the game yet. I think you can argue that those players aren’t good comparisons because they don’t have Pache’s physical gifts.
And then the guys who I think represent the actual worst case scenario for Pache–the guys who made it to the big leagues and people kept giving them chances for various reasons, but they never hit it well enough to stick. Sardinas, Gose, Ahire Adrianza, Shawn O’Malley…unless Pache gets hurt, that is probably Pache’s floor because of his defense. He’s going to get a shot, period.
So that’s 11 player comps, ranging from Luis Sardinas and Anthony Gose to Austin Jackson.
The argument that Travis and many of the commenters are making is that this swing change is going to take Pache from being at the middle of this distribution to the top. But all of the even moderately successful players on this list also made adjustments just like the one Pache is making now. This adjustment is almost certainly taking Pache from the bottom of this distribution to the middle.
Realistically, when you take Pache’s defense into account, he’s easily a Top 100 prospect. I don’t think anyone can argue that. But if there’s one thing that bugs me about this line of thinking, it is thinking that the Orlando Arcia’s and the Ender Inciarte’s and the Cory Spangenberg’s didn’t also make these kinds of adjustments along the way too. A a guy with a current hit tool of 20 (twenty! twenty!) is not even going to get to a positive wRC+ without some kinds of adjustment like the one Pache is making now.
In any case, we’ll know more once the minor league season starts how Pache’s swing changes his outlook.
looking at minor leaguers in terms of wRC+ and nothing else doesn’t make much sense. With super young guys, not only are their skills developing rapidly, but so are their bodies. That’s way less true for guys who are 21 and over.
The point with Pache isn’t just the swing change or past stats, it’s how big he is becoming, which means more power. Inciarte is 5’11 190, Orlando Arcia is 6′, 165, Spangenberg is 6′ 195.. Those guys are done growing. Ketel Marte is Arcia’s size. Elvis Andrus is 6, 200 so that’s a bit bigger but lo and behold, he’s “unlocked” his power.
Pache is simply not a fit comparison to these guys due to body type (though admittedly I didn’t check them all, but I found none who were size). He is 18 and 6’3 190. It is *very likely* he will be a lot bigger than all of them. That’s too relevant to ignore.
I know Acuña had a very unique year last year but this discussion definitely reminds me of talking about him last year (I know they have different calling cards). I’m just excited to watch Pache as I was to watch Acuña last year. If he and Riley continue to progress as many hope and some project, the Braves lack of bats won’t be so distinct. It’s a fun time to be an Atlanta fan.
But how do you pronounce it? Is it like Pache? Or more like Pache. Or even Pache. I must know which is correct.
Correct pronunciation if “Pah-chay”, or “Pah-shay”, I’ve heard both. But the Rome Braves announcer used the former, so I’m more inclined to believe that.