August Fagerstrom FanGraphs Chat — 5/10/16
| 12:04 |
: chatty chat chat!
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| 12:04 |
: The soundtrack is the new Radiohead record, A Moon Shaped Pool, which I cannot link, but you can (and should) acquire. It is blissful and flawless
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| 12:04 |
: What’s wrong wi
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| 12:04 |
: off to a good start!
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| 12:06 |
: Shouldn’t the Nationals assume (or strongly suspect) that if Boras is willing to do an extension for Strasburg, there must be something wrong with his elbow that they don’t know about?
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| 12:06 |
: I think this is something worth considering, but at the same time, Strasburg’s looked as good as ever lately, so it would be odd if *now* was the time when Boras felt the need to make that move
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| 12:07 |
: I’d guess Strasburg just wanted to stay in Washington, and that overruled Boras
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| 12:07 |
: So, JT Realmuto passing Ozuna and being called out and being credited with a single, out at 2nd – when was the last time that happened in the majors prior to this?
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| 12:07 |
: I’m not sure. I’d like to know, but I couldn’t figure out a way to Play Index it last night
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| 12:07 |
: What’s the prognosis on Carrasco? Does he come back as good as ever? Will there be some rust? Is he the key to the Indians climbing back into it?
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| 12:08 |
: Well you’d certainly rather have a leg injury than an arm injury for a pitcher, though of course neither is ideal. Really just depends how quickly he can regain his mechanics with one hamstring being weaker than the other
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| 12:09 |
: Does Brad Ausmus make it through the season?
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| 12:09 |
: Doubtful
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| 12:09 |
: I’m starting to lose hope for the Twins even for next season. I guess that’s not a question
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| 12:09 |
: 🙁
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| 12:10 |
: If a player is walked at every at-bat, what is offensive WAR?
|
| 12:10 |
: Well his wRC+ would be like 350
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| 12:10 |
: so
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| 12:10 |
: pretty high
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| 12:10 |
: Who is the top free agent Pitcher next year now that Strasburg is extended?
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| 12:10 |
: i literally think it’s Rich Hill
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| 12:10 |
Remember when “Anonymous Scout” was calling for Matz to get demoted after ONE bad start? Anonymous Internet Commenter thinks Anonymous Scout should be the one who suffers a demotion instead |
| 12:10 |
: no i do not remember that
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| 12:10 |
: bad scout, though
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| 12:11 |
: Fun Fact: 6 teams have won more games this year at Turner Field than the Braves
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| 12:11 |
: I love that tweet so much
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| 12:11 |
: Favorite/Least favorite songs off of A Moon Shaped Pool?
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| 12:12 |
: Favorites: Decks Dark (OMG), Ful Stop, Identikit, The Numbers, Present Tense
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| 12:12 |
: Least favorites: None
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| 12:12 |
: It’s honestly a damn near flawless record. I can’t believe how good it is
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| 12:12 |
: Now that we’re past April and sample sizes have become just a little bit meatier, why is Fielder still starting every day batting 3rd or 4th in the order? Is the rest of his contract dead money?
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| 12:12 |
: money/past performance
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| 12:12 |
: “He’s Prince Fielder,” is why
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| 12:13 |
: Would a 52 year old Big Unit be able to put up a replacement level season out of the bullpen?
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| 12:13 |
: like literally right now? No
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| 12:13 |
: He’s been taking pictures since he retired, not pitching
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| 12:13 |
: Is Brandon Belt one of the best hitters in baseball?
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| 12:13 |
: depends how loose “one of” is
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| 12:14 |
: Kris Medlen can’t find the zone to save his life, why has he been such garbage this season?
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| 12:14 |
: I mean it’s not like this is the fall of Greg Maddux we’re talking about here
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| 12:14 |
: It’s Kris Medlen. He was OK, and when you lose a little bit off OK, you get bad
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| 12:14 |
: Bryce Harper. Bat him lead off. Make them pitch to him. Or they put the lead off man on. Thoughts?
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| 12:14 |
: I think you waste too many runs putting his power at the top of the order
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| 12:15 |
: Is David Ortiz the best hitter we’ve seen at age 40?
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| 12:15 |
: Well I mean right now, yeah
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| 12:16 |
: He’s got to finish with a 157 wRC+ or better to top Willie Mays
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| 12:16 |
: His updated Steamer projection has him finishing the year with a 144 wRC+
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| 12:17 |
: Which would still be the second-best hitter season by a 40-year-old ever
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| 12:17 |
: And that leaves 157 certainly within reach
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| 12:17 |
: August, my man, what is the heck is wrong with Bryce Harper? He hasn’t hit a home run in 5 games. Of course, that’s only 6 ABs.
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| 12:17 |
: #trash
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| 12:17 |
: Kris Bryant stated that he wanted to level his swing plane this year, in order to cut the Ks. His contact numbers have improved across the board significantly, resulting in a 13% lower K-Rate so far. Is this adjustment for real? Can you think of another player who did this?
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| 12:17 |
: I mean, players are making swing adjustments constantly. It’s pretty neat that Kris Bryant talked about is so openly using terms like “launch angle.” Might have to write about that, in fact
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| 12:18 |
: RICK. TAYLOR.
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| 12:18 |
: Rick Taylor, baby
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| 12:19 |
: What are your thoughts on Fernandez? His walk-rate has gone way up even though he’s thrown the ball in the zone more. I think it’s because hitters aren’t swinging at the curveball as much (a quick look reveals that the movement on his curve is way down). Do you think it’s concerning?
|
| 12:20 |
: I’m a bit concerned about the command — he had one of the worst walk rates in the spring, too. I know the Marlins wanted him to change his approach a bit this offseason — pitching to more contact and going less all-out with the fastball
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| 12:20 |
: Could be he’s still trying to get used to that. Or could be that that’s not the best approach for him
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| 12:21 |
: Odubel Herrera has been a beast. Are you buying his start?
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| 12:21 |
: I’m buying Odubel Herrera as a useful starter on a good team, which I wasn’t before the season
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| 12:21 |
: Hello, friend!
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| 12:21 |
: Hi, Bork!
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| 12:21 |
: First thing you buy with 175 million?
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| 12:22 |
: A reuben
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| 12:22 |
: Like a REALLY good reuben
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| 12:22 |
: Is this the Jacoby Ellsbury we can expect going forward, now and forever?
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| 12:22 |
: What he’s been for the last five years, you mean?
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| 12:22 |
: Yeah. We’re not getting 2011 back. Dunno what happened there.
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| 12:22 |
: Outside of Cespedes, which player’s family BBQ would you most want to attend?
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| 12:22 |
: Puig’s
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| 12:23 |
: or Greinke’s
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| 12:23 |
: I heard you on the Pirate’s Pregame radio show yesterday. Good look, my dude.
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| 12:23 |
: Thanks man
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| 12:23 |
: Is Severino worthy of a demotion?
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| 12:23 |
: No
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| 12:24 |
: Is it just me or does Kluber seem to give up runs in the first or second innings a little more than most aces.
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| 12:24 |
: First inning maybe: http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=klubeco01&year=Career&t=p#innng
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| 12:25 |
: Would you trade Trout for Urias,Peddrson Seager, Puig, De Leon and Barnes?
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| 12:25 |
: Yes
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| 12:25 |
: The Yankees are old, expensive, and not very good. They have some valuable trade pieces though. Should the Yankees do what they have never done: Blow it up in full re-build mode?
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| 12:25 |
: Thing about the Yankees is, they never need to go *full* re-build
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| 12:25 |
: They should never have anything but a top-5 payroll, probably
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| 12:25 |
: There’s a difference between that and realizing you’re not a contender and maximizing your future assets, though
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| 12:26 |
: ROS – who’s production do you think is most sustainable? Happ, Porcello, R. Hill?
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| 12:26 |
: Rich god damn Hill
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| 12:26 |
: What’s your read on Aaron Sanchez so far? He’s looked like the Jays best pitcher in limited time. Where do you see his ceiling in the rotation?
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| 12:26 |
: will be writing about this very soon, I think
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| 12:26 |
: Is there a fine or suspension coming Harper’s way?
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| 12:26 |
: Would guess he gets fined, yeah
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| 12:27 |
: Strasburg – how surprised are you at this extension, on a scale from “water is wet” to “Trump is the nominee”?
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| 12:27 |
: an 8
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| 12:27 |
: Is Felix Hernandez transforming into more of a Kris Medlan type of pitcher?
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| 12:27 |
: My favorite fun fact I’ve found in a while:
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| 12:27 |
: Before last night’s start, Felix was the only qualified starter in baseball without a whiff on an in-zone fastball all year
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| 12:27 |
: He literally had a 100% contact rate on in-zone fastballs before last night
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| 12:27 |
: Not sure if it changed or not
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| 12:27 |
: but, boy
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| 12:28 |
: Did we get too excited about Noah Syndergaard?
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| 12:28 |
: I’d call it an appropriate level of excitement
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| 12:28 |
: rasmus is now hitting like he is supposed to be hitting (.241). cut for ozuna? unable to trade him (no takers).
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| 12:28 |
: He was a 132 wRC+. That’s the best offensive season of his career.
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| 12:29 |
: So we knew Manny Machado vaulted himself among the elite last year, but holy shit! If he’s anywhere close to as good of a SS as he is a 3B he’s got to be the most valuable player in baseball, right?
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| 12:29 |
: He’s closer to Trout and Harper than most think, probably, yeah
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| 12:29 |
: Is it time to put Yordano Ventura in the pen? That walk rate is ridiculous.
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| 12:29 |
: And who do you replace him with? The Royals rotation is hot garbage
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| 12:29 |
: What are the chances bryce harper signs with the nationals long term?
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| 12:29 |
: Slim
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| 12:30 |
: Are any teams who fashioned themselves contenders at the beginning of the season legitimately screwed? I guess a 13-20 Astros team looks better than a 6-14 Astros team, but they need to pull it together in a hurry, right?
|
| 12:30 |
: The Twins are legitimately screwed
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| 12:30 |
: The Astros have to pull it together in a hurry, yes, but not screwed et
|
| 12:30 |
: yet*
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| 12:30 |
: Will MLB have an automated K zone within the next 10 years?
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| 12:30 |
: I’ll say no
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| 12:30 |
: The Nationals are a good team, but the weekend series vs. Cubs exposed one big problem: Outside of Harper, their hitters don’t scare anybody. Should they make a deal, or hope for internal improvement?
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| 12:30 |
: They should call up Trea Turner, for starters. And yeah, they could probably serve to add a bat
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| 12:31 |
: Given the White Sox’s current lead in the AL Central and their ability to throw Sale and Quintana four times in a series, Chicago really has to be the AL favorite at this point, right?
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| 12:31 |
: I’m still partial to the Red Sox
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| 12:31 |
: But yeah, Chicago’s positioned themselves as well as anyone so far in terms of making it out of the AL
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| 12:32 |
: Fangraphs has the Indians at 42.6% to win the division. Model may not account for Carrasco being hurt, because that seems high to me. How about you?
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| 12:32 |
: It does account for that. The projections are based off the playing time estimates provided for our depth charts, which are updated near-daily: http://www.fangraphs.com/depthcharts.aspx?position=ALL&teamid=5
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| 12:33 |
: Rate on the “cooked” scale: Twins, Yankees, Angels
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| 12:33 |
: Angels: 30. They took all 10 cooked points from the Twins and Yankees
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| 12:33 |
: White Sox have a 6 game lead already in their division, but Cleveland still has nearly the same division odds. What am I missing? I know it is early, but pitching and defense is there.
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| 12:34 |
: Projections like the Indians’ crop of position players by ~5 wins: http://www.fangraphs.com/depthcharts.aspx?position=Team
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| 12:34 |
: Which SS do you want ROS: Cozart, Marte or Villar?
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| 12:34 |
: Marte
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| 12:34 |
: What’s wrong wi…th the Blue Jays offence? Anything sticking out to you? Are they simply all hitting the aging curve at similar times?
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| 12:34 |
: Tulo and Russell Martin look like legitimate decline candidates
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| 12:34 |
: Alex Wood is showing crazy home/road splits so far this season. Potentially anything to that, or just noise?
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| 12:34 |
: Noise
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| 12:34 |
: If the Yankees fall out of contention, could you see them trading Beltran and/or Tex?
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| 12:35 |
: Not gonna get much for either guy
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| 12:35 |
: phone — one second
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| 12:43 |
: ok, sorry about that. had to take that call
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| 12:43 |
: If all the current mlb managers had to suit up and play for a season, who would post the most war? Paul molitor and dusty baker were probably the best players but are also the oldest. Brad ausmus and mike matheny are young but weren’t that great when they were in their prime. Im thinking maybe Robin ventura?
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| 12:44 |
: depends if you’re using BP WAR which counts pitch framing. if that’s the case I’d probably give it to Ausmus
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| 12:44 |
: Favorite comedian?
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| 12:45 |
: Maybe cliche right now but nobody makes me laugh harder and more consistently than Louis CK. Also a fan of Bill Burr, Maron, Hannibal Buress, of course Mitch Hedberg and George Carlin, Chappelle is always great too
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| 12:45 |
: Doug Stanhope is a goody too that doesn’t get enough love
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| 12:45 |
: oh and Brian Regan. Brian Regan is the man
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| 12:46 |
: MATT. DAMON.
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| 12:46 |
: Rays fan here, what’s up with Evan Longoria? Is he just a guy now? He was incredible when he came up as a rookie and the few years after that but got injuries. Now he’s been healthy for a while and in his prime years and he doesn’t really show much anymore. Thoughts?
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| 12:46 |
: Yeah, I mean, with the bat he’s been “just a guy” for a few years now. Seems he lost the bat speed to punish the inside pitch for whatever reason
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| 12:46 |
: The glove keeps him valuable, but probably not for much longer
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| 12:47 |
: Odds that Mark Trumbo has taken a legitimate step forward? Plate discipline is the best of his career right now.
|
| 12:47 |
: Nothing sticks out to me as too much different
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| 12:47 |
: Is Jose Altuve the best all-around player in the game?
|
| 12:47 |
: ?
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| 12:47 |
: no?
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| 12:47 |
: is this a trick question
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| 12:47 |
: If the Yankees are out of it by the trade deadline, chances that they will deal Chapman?
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| 12:48 |
: Pretty high
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| 12:48 |
: Do you believe in Kevin Pillar?
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| 12:48 |
: I never know what this question is asking me. How much am I supposed to believe in him?
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| 12:48 |
: A Moon Shaped Pool first made me mad with its alphabetical tracklist, then confused me, but now I think I love it, though I’m still confused. Is that anything other than exactly what you expect and hope for from a Radiohead album?
|
| 12:49 |
: I expect nothing from a new Radiohead record. Except good music. If you go in expecting some certain type of sound, you’re doing it wrong
|
| 12:49 |
The Pittsburgh Pirates are further out of first place than the Houston Astros. How nuts is that? |
| 12:49 |
: Wow
|
| 12:49 |
: That is pretty nuts
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| 12:49 |
: What’s up with Price? Think he’s legit injured? Or are the Red Sox just destined to have terrible contracts every off season?
|
| 12:50 |
: Think his mechanics are a bit out of wack, particularly from the stretch, which magnifies his issues because he’s been the worst version of himself when runners are on base and more damage can be done
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| 12:50 |
: Long as he gets that in check, which I suspect he will, he’ll be just fine
|
| 12:50 |
: Remember these guys? Ronnie Belliard, Jeff Conine, Carlos Silva, Shea Hillenbrand, Mark Teahan, Shannon Stewart, Gil Meche. Those guys played baseball
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| 12:50 |
: Carlos Silva was my favorite player in baseball for a year or so
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| 12:51 |
: Do you think Chisenhall can be an acceptable defensive center fielder?
|
| 12:51 |
: I guess? The whole package isn’t very good though
|
| 12:51 |
: Is Chris Young really this bad? I mean his K rate is actually higher as well as his fb velo, but SO MANY DONGERS, August.
|
| 12:51 |
: He’s got like no margin for error
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| 12:52 |
: Put it this way: he’d be about the least-surprising baseball to suddenly turn into a true-talent 5.00 ERA pitcher
|
| 12:52 |
: pitcher in baseball*
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| 12:52 |
: am i the best offensive ss in baseball now?
|
| 12:52 |
: no
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| 12:53 |
: How much do the Jays regret the Dickey trade?
|
| 12:53 |
: so hard
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| 12:53 |
: Why don’t you like porcello? he looks great so far this year
|
| 12:53 |
: has less to do with me not liking Porcello and more to do with Rich Hill being the second coming of Koufax
|
| 12:53 |
: Do you see anything mechanical to explain Zack Cozart’s hot start?
|
| 12:53 |
: I haven’t looked, so no
|
| 12:53 |
: You probably shouldn’t get tooooo excited though
|
| 12:54 |
: Going on the (maybe correct) assumption that pitchers pitch differently with a lead, are you aware of anywhere that one could find pitchers’ splits when winning/losing a game? Or is there another stat out there to approximate it?
|
| 12:54 |
: Yeah, it’s available on BR: http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=klubeco01&year=Career&t=p#clutc
|
| 12:54 |
: It’s pretty tough to do anything with, though, because of course if a pitcher’s team is losing, it’s because he’s pitched poorly, and vice-versa
|
| 12:54 |
: The most entertaining pitcher in baseball is…
|
| 12:55 |
: last year I said it was Johnny Cueto
|
| 12:55 |
: Jose Fernandez is a lot of fun to watch. Syndergaard. Darvish when he’s healthy
|
| 12:55 |
: knock on wood the starters all stay healthy, do Mets go to a 6 man when Wheeler returns? Or consider Wheeler at AAA past his rehab stint (assuming he still has options)?
|
| 12:55 |
: Colon could just go to the bullpen
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| 12:56 |
: Thoughts on Stroman? K’s going to come up?
|
| 12:56 |
: He seems real committed to getting ground balls
|
| 12:56 |
: why greinke’s bbq? dude seems like a stick in the mud to me.
|
| 12:56 |
: he is fascinating
|
| 12:56 |
: and I want to know where he comes from and why he is the way he is
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| 12:57 |
: If the Yankees are still in last place at the deadline, do you think the Cubs could pry Chapman loose?
|
| 12:57 |
: sure
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| 12:57 |
: that sure is a fun thing to consider, too
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| 12:57 |
: Have many listens in are you on A Moon Shaped Pool?
|
| 12:57 |
: like 8 or 9
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| 12:58 |
: Should the Royals’ performance this season continue as it has been so far, and align pretty well with projections, the perpetually aggrieved “The Royals are super special in an unmeasurable way” crowd should have to fund a party for the Fangraphs staff, complete with fireworks and Pegasus rides.
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| 12:58 |
: I’m all for a Pegasus party if someone wants to throw it for us
|
| 12:58 |
: What has been the best/most exiting play in baseball so far?
|
| 12:59 |
: I think the most excited I’ve gotten watching baseball this year was when I saw Steven Souza make this catch live: http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseball/25569169/watch-rays-steven-souza-makes-an-incredible-diving-catch
|
| 12:59 |
: I think I shouted
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| 12:59 |
: Who are the better stashes: Giolito or Snell? Reed or Gallo? Crawford or Arcia?
|
| 12:59 |
: Giolito Reed and Crawford
|
| 1:00 |
: Say (god forbid) Mike Trout gets hurt. Are the Angels then worse than the Braves?
|
| 1:00 |
: You can’t get much *worse* but they’d be in the conversation
|
| 1:00 |
: Should the Cubs be giving more at bats to Baez?
|
| 1:00 |
: Taking away from who?
|
| 1:00 |
: You’re probably getting lots of AJ Reed questions. Thoughts on his struggles? Currently batting .223.
|
| 1:00 |
: I wouldn’t be too concerned
|
| 1:01 |
: Power’s still there. Strikeouts are unchanged. Walks are unchanged. Could be running into batted ball luck or something. Kid can hit.
|
| 1:01 |
: think the Tigers could find a taker on VMart if they decide to sell this year?
|
| 1:01 |
: Well only 14 teams can be interested
|
| 1:01 |
: And of those 14, probably half will be out of contention
|
| 1:01 |
: Makes it tough, especially given what he’s being paid
|
| 1:02 |
: Though he’s doing everything he can to give himself value, certainly
|
| 1:02 |
: Does the Strasbourg deal suggest we were wrong about Boras? Or is this an exception?
|
| 1:02 |
: I think it’s an exception
|
| 1:02 |
: The instant the Twins give up on the season, Plouffe gets traded and the Sano-in-the-outfield experiment mercifully ends, no?
|
| 1:02 |
: Probably yeah
|
| 1:03 |
: Hey Augie! Thanks for chatting. What’s the deal with McHugh? Hidden injury? Forgot how to pitch? Bad luck? Something else?
|
| 1:03 |
: Leaving too many pitches up
|
| 1:04 |
: That, and probably some poor sequencing fortune.
|
| 1:04 |
: But again, this is one of those things where, mid-rotation starters just don’t have much room for error
|
| 1:04 |
: McHugh leaving a few too many pitches up is quite a bit different than Max Scherzer leaving a few too many pitches u
|
| 1:05 |
: I don’t care what the numbers say, the Cubs suck!
|
| 1:05 |
: fair point
|
| 1:05 |
: How good/bad would Thor be if he had to throw his fastball at the same rate as I throw mine?
|
| 1:05 |
: Still pretty darn good
|
| 1:05 |
: Votto: First 16 games: .172/.258/.241 Last 17 games: .302/.457/.547
|
| 1:05 |
: He’s pretty good
|
| 1:06 |
: Do you believe Kevin Pillar can sustain his 5+ WAR/year. SORRY AUGUST.
|
| 1:06 |
: Probably not, no
|
| 1:06 |
: Previous commenter mentioned Gil Meche. Are you aware of any other ball player, under contract, walking away from millions and simply retiring when his skills/ambition were diminished?
|
| 1:06 |
: it literally happened like 2 months ago
|
| 1:07 |
: Why are so many Aces not acing right now?
|
| 1:07 |
: Because they’ve made 6 or 7 starts
|
| 1:07 |
: This question doesn’t just apply to the new Radiohead album, but that could be considered as part of your answer. Or are you a music guy first, lyrics guy, or a combination? With regards to the new RH album, how much have you delved into the lyrics?
|
| 1:08 |
: I’m definitely a texture/mood guy first
|
| 1:08 |
: I only get into lyrics when I really want to learn more about an artist
|
| 1:08 |
: or the potential meaning behind a song/record, etc
|
| 1:09 |
: Which young SS projects as the better bat? J.P. Crawford or Orlando Arcia?
|
| 1:09 |
: Crawford
|
| 1:09 |
: HOLDS LEAGUE GIVENS OR GILES (ROS) ?
|
| 1:09 |
: OZUNA OR GRICHUK OBP LEAGUE ?
|
| 1:09 |
: please stop yelling at me
|
| 1:09 |
: Whos the least exciting SP to watch? Locke?
|
| 1:09 |
: Yeah, probably
|
| 1:10 |
: how does FG update playing time estimates “near daily” for so many players?
|
| 1:10 |
: We have a team of authors who each maintain one division. The playing time estimates are updated when there’s an injury/demotion/promotion/position change/etc
|
| 1:10 |
: What is your favorite major and minor league park? What puts them at the top?
|
| 1:11 |
: PNC is probably my favorite major league park at which to watch a game
|
| 1:11 |
: I’ve been to I think 2 minor league parks
|
| 1:11 |
: So…is Rich Hill really, real? I mean…you seem to love him. Is it warranted?
|
| 1:12 |
: It’s partially tongue-in-cheek, but I mean, he’s good
|
| 1:13 |
: I think if everyone in baseball had to make a start tomorrow, and they all pitched to their current true-talent level, Hill would have one of the, like, 30 best games
|
| 1:14 |
: you say literally a lot. do you know what the word actually means?
|
| 1:14 |
: just checked and all four times I think it’s justified
|
| 1:14 |
: though I did not notice I’d already used the word four times in this chat
|
| 1:14 |
: that is a bit obnoxious I suppose
|
| 1:14 |
: though so was your comment so I guess we’re even
|
| 1:15 |
: Why doesn’t Xander Bogaerts get any respect in the best short stop in baseball argument?
|
| 1:15 |
: because I think he’s pretty safely not it
|
| 1:15 |
: Seems pretty clear, to me at least, that there’s a gap between Correa/Lindor and Crawford/Bogaerts
|
| 1:16 |
: I have a hard time watching Joe Ross. He works so slowly. Is there a place to see the pace scores for pitchers this season?
|
| 1:16 |
| 1:16 |
: Ross is about league average
|
| 1:16 |
: You shouldn’t watch an Edinson Volquez start
|
| 1:17 |
: Are you regularly moved to tears by music?
|
| 1:17 |
: have cried at my fair share of concerts
|
| 1:17 |
: alright guys, I gotta run. Thanks for chatting
|
| 1:17 |
: same time and place next week
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| 1:17 |
: peace
|
August used to cover the Indians for MLB and ohio.com, but now he's here and thinks writing these in the third person is weird. So you can reach me on Twitter @AugustFG_ or e-mail at august.fagerstrom@fangraphs.com.
LaRoche wasn’t even the only guy under contract to walk away from significant money last offseason. Michael Cuddyer did it too.