KATOH’s 2017 Top-100 Prospects
It’s that time of the year again. Baseball America recently published their top-100-prospects list, as have Baseball Prospectus, Keith Law and MLB Pipeline. Eric Longenhagen will be putting out his top-100 this spring, too. Below, you’ll find my KATOH projection system’s take on baseball’s most promising rookie-eligible players.
As usual, hitters far outnumber pitchers on these lists, by about three to one. The reason for this, I think, is two-fold. Primarily, it’s just that even the best pitching prospects are risky. They get hurt; they lose velocity; they move to bullpen — all with little notice. Even the pitchers who do pan out are less likely to sustain their success over several years than their hitting counterparts. Secondly, KATOH does not directly account for pitchers’ velocity (or any other measure of “stuff”). If I were able to include a measure of fastball velocity, for example, I imagine most of the top pitching prospects would project more favorably. There isn’t an obvious scouting analogue for hitters that is glaringly omitted by the numbers.
The first top-100 list ranks prospects by KATOH+, which takes into account players’ performance, age, height and ranking on traditional prospect lists. This is the more “accurate” version of KATOH. As it did previously, this incorporates a player’s rank on Baseball America’s top-100 list. However, this version also folds in Eric Longenhagen’s FV ranking for the players who weren’t ranked by Baseball America, ensuring borderline top-100 guys aren’t dinged as hard as non-prospects.
The second list is the old, “stats only” version of KATOH, that doesn’t account for any sort of scouting. This is an obvious flaw, as there’s a reason people in the industry always say “don’t scout the stat line.” But by considering the stats exclusively, this version is 100% objective. And since it doesn’t downgrade prospects who lack scouting pedigree, it’s good for identifying statistical standouts who have gone unnoticed.
All players with at least 200 plate appearance or batters faced in the minors last year qualify. Enjoy!
(Note: Mark Karaviotis originally appeared due to a coding error. KATOH thinks he’s interesting — 2.2 WAR on both versions — but he’s not a top-100 guy.)
| Rank | Name | Team | Pos | WAR thru First 6 Seasons |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Andrew Benintendi | Red Sox | OF | 19.2 |
| 2 | Vladimir Guerrero | Blue Jays | 3B | 18.9 |
| 3 | Dansby Swanson | Braves | SS | 16.3 |
| 4 | Austin Meadows | Pirates | CF | 15.4 |
| 5 | J.P. Crawford | Phillies | SS | 14.6 |
| 6 | Manuel Margot | Padres | CF | 14.6 |
| 7 | Yoan Moncada | White Sox | 2B/3B | 13.8 |
| 8 | Ozzie Albies | Braves | 2B | 13.4 |
| 9 | Cody Bellinger | Dodgers | 1B/OF | 12.7 |
| 10 | Kyle Tucker | Astros | OF | 11.6 |
| 11 | Nick Senzel | Reds | 3B | 11.0 |
| 12 | Victor Robles | Nationals | CF | 10.7 |
| 13 | Gleyber Torres | Yankees | SS | 10.5 |
| 14 | Willy Adames | Rays | SS | 10.4 |
| 15 | Amed Rosario | Mets | SS | 10.2 |
| 16 | Jake Bauers | Rays | 1B/OF | 9.9 |
| 17 | Alex Reyes | Cardinals | RHP | 9.9 |
| 18 | Eloy Jimenez | Cubs | LF | 9.4 |
| 19 | Rafael Devers | Red Sox | 3B | 9.3 |
| 20 | Franklin Barreto | Athletics | SS | 9.3 |
| 21 | Thomas Szapucki | Mets | LHP | 9.0 |
| 22 | Mickey Moniak | Phillies | CF | 8.9 |
| 23 | Tyler O’Neill | Mariners | OF | 8.8 |
| 24 | Bradley Zimmer | Indians | CF | 8.6 |
| 25 | Josh Bell | Pirates | 1B | 8.4 |
| 26 | Dylan Cozens | Phillies | RF | 8.2 |
| 27 | Alex Verdugo | Dodgers | CF | 8.1 |
| 28 | Jose De Leon | Rays | RHP | 8.0 |
| 29 | Triston Mckenzie | Indians | RHP | 8.0 |
| 30 | Tyler Glasnow | Pirates | RHP | 7.9 |
| 31 | Lewis Brinson | Brewers | CF | 7.9 |
| 32 | Michael Kopech | White Sox | RHP | 7.9 |
| 33 | Raimel Tapia | Rockies | OF | 7.5 |
| 34 | Josh Hader | Brewers | LHP | 7.4 |
| 35 | Garrett Stubbs | Astros | C | 7.3 |
| 36 | Jesse Winker | Reds | RF | 7.2 |
| 37 | Francis Martes | Astros | RHP | 7.2 |
| 38 | Lucas Giolito | White Sox | RHP | 7.0 |
| 39 | Matt Chapman | Athletics | 3B | 6.7 |
| 40 | A.J. Reed | Astros | 1B | 6.7 |
| 41 | Franklin Perez | Astros | RHP | 6.6 |
| 42 | Luke Weaver | Cardinals | RHP | 6.5 |
| 43 | Kevin Newman | Pirates | SS | 6.5 |
| 44 | Brandon Nimmo | Mets | CF | 6.5 |
| 45 | Clint Frazier | Yankees | RF | 6.5 |
| 46 | Dan Vogelbach | Mariners | 1B | 6.2 |
| 47 | German Marquez | Rockies | RHP | 6.2 |
| 48 | Ramon Laureano | Astros | CF | 6.2 |
| 49 | Tyler Beede | Giants | RHP | 6.0 |
| 50 | Isaac Paredes | Cubs | SS | 5.8 |
| 51 | Casey Gillaspie | Rays | 1B | 5.8 |
| 52 | Aaron Judge | Yankees | RF | 5.8 |
| 53 | Brent Honeywell | Rays | RHP | 5.7 |
| 54 | Mike Soroka | Braves | RHP | 5.6 |
| 55 | Zack Granite | Twins | CF | 5.6 |
| 56 | David Paulino | Astros | RHP | 5.6 |
| 57 | Willie Calhoun | Dodgers | 2B | 5.5 |
| 58 | Luis Arraez | Twins | 2B | 5.5 |
| 59 | Reynaldo Lopez | White Sox | RHP | 5.5 |
| 60 | Kolby Allard | Braves | LHP | 5.4 |
| 61 | Francisco Mejia | Indians | C | 5.4 |
| 62 | Luis Urias | Padres | 2B | 5.4 |
| 63 | Derek Fisher | Astros | CF | 5.3 |
| 64 | Chance Sisco | Orioles | C | 5.3 |
| 65 | Andrew Toles | Dodgers | OF | 5.2 |
| 66 | Gavin Cecchini | Mets | SS | 5.2 |
| 67 | Mitch Keller | Pirates | RHP | 5.2 |
| 68 | John Schuknecht | Angels | OF | 5.1 |
| 69 | Dustin Fowler | Yankees | CF | 5.1 |
| 70 | Alec Hansen | White Sox | RHP | 5.0 |
| 71 | Albert Almora | Cubs | CF | 5.0 |
| 72 | Jonathan Holder | Yankees | RHP | 4.9 |
| 73 | Jack Flaherty | Cardinals | RHP | 4.8 |
| 74 | Jeff Hoffman | Rockies | RHP | 4.8 |
| 75 | Keibert Ruiz | Dodgers | C | 4.7 |
| 76 | Jeimer Candelario | Cubs | 3B | 4.7 |
| 77 | Anderson Espinoza | Padres | RHP | 4.6 |
| 78 | Dominic Smith | Mets | 1B | 4.6 |
| 79 | Rowdy Tellez | Blue Jays | 1B | 4.6 |
| 80 | Ben Gamel | Mariners | OF | 4.4 |
| 81 | Ian Happ | Cubs | 2B | 4.4 |
| 82 | Mark Zagunis | Cubs | LF | 4.4 |
| 83 | Mitch Haniger | Mariners | OF | 4.3 |
| 84 | Max Moroff | Pirates | IF | 4.3 |
| 85 | Teoscar Hernandez | Astros | RF | 4.2 |
| 86 | Bruce Maxwell | Athletics | C | 4.2 |
| 87 | Leody Taveras | Rangers | OF | 4.2 |
| 88 | Charlie Tilson | White Sox | OF | 4.2 |
| 89 | Hunter Dozier | Royals | 3B | 4.2 |
| 90 | Daniel Robertson | Rays | SS | 4.2 |
| 91 | Stephen Gonsalves | Twins | LHP | 4.2 |
| 92 | Yadier Alvarez | Dodgers | RHP | 4.2 |
| 93 | Jose Antequera | Phillies | 2B | 4.1 |
| 94 | Austin Barnes | Dodgers | C | 4.1 |
| 95 | Boog Powell | Mariners | OF | 4.1 |
| 96 | Yohander Mendez | Rangers | LHP | 4.0 |
| 97 | Adalberto Mejia | Twins | LHP | 4.0 |
| 98 | Reese Mcguire | Blue Jays | C | 4.0 |
| 99 | Brock Stewart | Dodgers | RHP | 4.0 |
| 100 | Edwin Rios | Dodgers | 1B/3B | 3.9 |
And here’s the “stats only” version.
| Rank | Name | Team | Pos | WAR thru First 6 Seasons |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Dylan Cozens | Phillies | RF | 13.8 |
| 2 | Manuel Margot | Padres | CF | 13.5 |
| 3 | Vladimir Guerrero | Blue Jays | 3B | 12.5 |
| 4 | Austin Meadows | Pirates | CF | 12.4 |
| 5 | Jake Bauers | Rays | 1B/OF | 11.5 |
| 6 | J.P. Crawford | Phillies | SS | 11.4 |
| 7 | Andrew Benintendi | Red Sox | OF | 11.4 |
| 8 | Ozzie Albies | Braves | 2B | 11.1 |
| 9 | Cody Bellinger | Dodgers | 1B/OF | 10.5 |
| 10 | Garrett Stubbs | Astros | C | 10.0 |
| 11 | Kyle Tucker | Astros | OF | 9.6 |
| 12 | Luis Arraez | Twins | 2B | 9.4 |
| 13 | Tyler O’Neill | Mariners | OF | 9.4 |
| 14 | Thomas Szapucki | Mets | LHP | 9.4 |
| 15 | Matt Chapman | Athletics | 3B | 8.6 |
| 16 | Alex Verdugo | Dodgers | CF | 8.5 |
| 17 | Dansby Swanson | Braves | SS | 8.3 |
| 18 | Franklin Barreto | Athletics | SS | 8.1 |
| 19 | Bradley Zimmer | Indians | CF | 8.0 |
| 20 | Victor Robles | Nationals | CF | 7.4 |
| 21 | Brandon Nimmo | Mets | CF | 7.4 |
| 22 | Derek Fisher | Astros | CF | 7.3 |
| 23 | Zack Granite | Twins | CF | 7.2 |
| 24 | Jesse Winker | Reds | RF | 7.2 |
| 25 | Dan Vogelbach | Mariners | 1B | 7.0 |
| 26 | Edwin Rios | Dodgers | 1B/3B | 7.0 |
| 27 | Raimel Tapia | Rockies | OF | 7.0 |
| 28 | Michael Kopech | White Sox | RHP | 6.8 |
| 29 | Gavin Cecchini | Mets | SS | 6.7 |
| 30 | Ramon Laureano | Astros | CF | 6.7 |
| 31 | Willy Adames | Rays | SS | 6.7 |
| 32 | Josh Bell | Pirates | 1B | 6.6 |
| 33 | Triston Mckenzie | Indians | RHP | 6.6 |
| 34 | Josh Hader | Brewers | LHP | 6.5 |
| 35 | Gleyber Torres | Yankees | SS | 6.5 |
| 36 | Yoan Moncada | White Sox | 2B/3B | 6.5 |
| 37 | Jose De Leon | Rays | RHP | 6.5 |
| 38 | Max Moroff | Pirates | IF | 6.4 |
| 39 | Amed Rosario | Mets | SS | 6.3 |
| 40 | Tyler Glasnow | Pirates | RHP | 6.3 |
| 41 | Ben Gamel | Mariners | OF | 6.3 |
| 42 | Andrew Toles | Dodgers | OF | 6.2 |
| 43 | Isaac Paredes | Cubs | SS | 6.2 |
| 44 | Alex Reyes | Cardinals | RHP | 6.2 |
| 45 | Dustin Fowler | Yankees | CF | 6.0 |
| 46 | Rafael Devers | Red Sox | 3B | 6.0 |
| 47 | Rowdy Tellez | Blue Jays | 1B | 5.9 |
| 48 | Luis Urias | Padres | 2B | 5.9 |
| 49 | Lewis Brinson | Brewers | CF | 5.8 |
| 50 | Willie Calhoun | Dodgers | 2B | 5.8 |
| 51 | Casey Gillaspie | Rays | 1B | 5.7 |
| 52 | Austin Slater | Giants | OF | 5.7 |
| 53 | Aaron Judge | Yankees | RF | 5.7 |
| 54 | Rhys Hoskins | Phillies | 1B | 5.7 |
| 55 | Charlie Tilson | White Sox | OF | 5.7 |
| 56 | Jonathan Holder | Yankees | RHP | 5.7 |
| 57 | Luke Weaver | Cardinals | RHP | 5.7 |
| 58 | Eloy Jimenez | Cubs | LF | 5.6 |
| 59 | Tyler Beede | Giants | RHP | 5.6 |
| 60 | Boog Powell | Mariners | OF | 5.6 |
| 61 | Clint Frazier | Yankees | RF | 5.5 |
| 62 | A.J. Reed | Astros | 1B | 5.5 |
| 63 | Alec Hansen | White Sox | RHP | 5.4 |
| 64 | Harrison Bader | Cardinals | OF | 5.4 |
| 65 | Reese Mcguire | Blue Jays | C | 5.4 |
| 66 | Samir Duenez | Royals | 1B | 5.3 |
| 67 | David Paulino | Astros | RHP | 5.3 |
| 68 | Rio Ruiz | Braves | 3B | 5.3 |
| 69 | Albert Almora | Cubs | CF | 5.3 |
| 70 | German Marquez | Rockies | RHP | 5.3 |
| 71 | Jack Flaherty | Cardinals | RHP | 5.2 |
| 72 | Kevin Newman | Pirates | SS | 5.1 |
| 73 | Matt Olson | Athletics | 1B | 5.1 |
| 74 | Mark Zagunis | Cubs | LF | 5.0 |
| 75 | Teoscar Hernandez | Astros | RF | 5.0 |
| 76 | Stephen Gonsalves | Twins | LHP | 5.0 |
| 77 | Jeimer Candelario | Cubs | 3B | 5.0 |
| 78 | Mauricio Dubon | Brewers | SS | 5.0 |
| 79 | Chance Sisco | Orioles | C | 4.9 |
| 80 | Alen Hanson | Pirates | 2B | 4.9 |
| 81 | Mitch Haniger | Mariners | OF | 4.9 |
| 82 | Lucas Giolito | White Sox | RHP | 4.8 |
| 83 | Nick Senzel | Reds | 3B | 4.8 |
| 84 | Daniel Robertson | Rays | SS | 4.7 |
| 85 | Yohander Mendez | Rangers | LHP | 4.7 |
| 86 | John Schuknecht | Angels | OF | 4.7 |
| 87 | Hunter Dozier | Royals | 3B | 4.6 |
| 88 | Michael De Leon | Rangers | SS | 4.5 |
| 89 | Francis Martes | Astros | RHP | 4.5 |
| 90 | Dominic Smith | Mets | 1B | 4.5 |
| 91 | Yusniel Diaz | Dodgers | OF | 4.5 |
| 92 | Nick Delmonico | White Sox | 1B/3B | 4.4 |
| 93 | Adalberto Mejia | Twins | LHP | 4.4 |
| 94 | Bruce Maxwell | Athletics | C | 4.4 |
| 95 | Matthew Gage | Giants | LHP | 4.4 |
| 96 | Austin Barnes | Dodgers | C | 4.4 |
| 97 | Andrew Stevenson | Nationals | OF | 4.4 |
| 98 | Keibert Ruiz | Dodgers | C | 4.4 |
| 99 | Brock Stewart | Dodgers | RHP | 4.3 |
| 100 | Andrew Aplin | Astros | OF | 4.3 |
Chris works in economic development by day, but spends most of his nights thinking about baseball. He writes for Pinstripe Pundits, FanGraphs and The Hardball Times. He's also on the twitter machine: @_chris_mitchell None of the views expressed in his articles reflect those of his daytime employer.
Wow that’s a hell of a projection for the 17 year old Vlad Jr (btw, the name currently links to his dad).
Thanks, fixed the link. The fact that he even played stateside as a 17-year-old (and a young-ish 17, at that) is impressive. On top of that, he demonstrated an excellent combination of contact/power/speed.
fyi last time a super young jay popped up at the top of this list was Osuna, though in a much tinier sample. katoh still saw him coming.
surprised to see no Travis Demeritte
When Chris ran him back in August he projected for 1.4 WAR through KATOH and 1.2 WAR through KATOH+
Tons of strikeouts at the lower levels is never a good sign. Also, the track record for A-Ball 2B isn’t great, since most good prospects are still at short at that point.
Seeing Alex Reyes that high surprises me, I’m gonna assume this isn’t taking his 1-2 years of service well recovering from surgery into account in that projection?
Right, this doesn’t account for that. So consider this pre-injury Alex Reyes.
John Schuknecht?
That was my reaction too when I saw his name. But he did hit .292/.373/.533 with speed last year. Of course, small sample and proximity from the majors caveats apply a million times over.
Wow, I couldn’t find a single prospect list he’s even mentioned in… Just curious, why is it that he’s higher with KATOH+? Given he’s not on any Top 100 lists (or any lists for that matter…), I’d expect him to be lower, not higher, right?
He’s not even listed in BA’s top 30 or on their minor league depth chart that reaches even further
So the only Angels prospect to crack the list was a 37th round pick from last year? Hope he pans out…it is going to be a long few (many?) years in Los Angeles of Anaheim.
I love it when there’s a list that comes up with totally different names. Dylan Cozens, Jake Bauers, Garrett Stubbs, Luis Arraez, Edwin Rios, Ramon Laureano, Max Moroff, Isaac Paredes, Rowdy Tellez, Casey Gillaspie, Austin Slater, Mark Karaviotis, Jonathan Holder, Samir Duenez, John Schuknecht… Of all those, the only one that surprises me is Chapman–isn’t he the archetype of the type of prospect that KATOH doesn’t like?
KATOH doesn’t like strikeouts, but its less skeptical once a hitter’s shown he can succeed in the upper levels despite them. Chapman’s case is also helped by the fact that he’s young (esp for a college bat in Triple-A) and the metrics love him at third.
And I love those unheralded guys too. I’m definitely a prospect hipster.
Rowdy Tellez is getting some buzz with Jays news. Maybe just maybe hinted at for later in the year.
Katoh loves Jonathan Holder. I think the Yankees would be thrilled if he put up either WAR as a reliever
Stats like his just don’t happen very often, even from relievers. Even if his performance is a lot worse than it was in the minors last year, he could still be a top reliever.
I’m relieved to see Aaron Judge’s rankings, here. His stock is way down after doing poorly in MLB last year. But if the system that is all about the actual results remains at least pretty high on him, then the reaction was probably too severe.
Worth pointing out that KATOH does not take into account MLB stats. But even so, I wouldn’t get too worked up over 84 ABs. I still think his MiLB numbers tell you most of what you need to know.
I see. Thanks!
I’m curious to know more about Mark Karaviotis. I havent seen him on any prospect lists for the Dbacks and definetely want to know why you are so high in him.
Personally, I don’t know Karaviotis from Adam. But KATOH loves him because he hit a ridiculous .333/.474/.467 as a SS last year. Of course, he has only a small sample of games to his name and is eons away from from the majors, so I’d view that projection with skepticism. But at the very least, I think he’s someone to monitor as he faces better competition.
Who is Jose Antequera? I’m a Phillies fan and had never heard of him. Not on Eric’s Top 33 Phillies list… (and not in the other 20 prospects of note, and, most importantly, not Cistulli’s Guy…) I guess I’m just a little… surprised. I mean, looking at his stats… that can’t be right, can it?
That being said, glad to see KATOH’s still the conductor on the Dylan Cozens train!
Yeah, I’m surprised too. KATOH loves what he did in the GCL: Extreme contact, speed and a touch of power. Of course, he has only a small sample of games to his name and is eons away from from the majors, so I’d view that projection with skepticism.
Great answer, thanks!
Matt Chapman seems high, considering the combination of swing and miss and a low BABIP.
Best 3b defender in pro baseball probably helps.
What does Manny Machado have to do with this article?
In all seriousness, Clay Davenport has Chapman as being very comparable to Machado defensively at 3B. He’s the real deal with the leather. Question with him is just if he can make enough contact to be successful with the bat.
Don’t Davenport’s metrics tell us that Chapman is nearly as much better than the average AA 3B as Manny Machado is the average MLB 3B?
Davenport’s 2017 defensive projection for Chapman is just 6 FRAA (equivalent to Jose Ramirez), as opposed to 7 for Machado…and 10 for Seager and Arenado.
Which is really good! But not enough to carry a guy who couldn’t hit .245 as a 23 year old in AA, while whiffing more than Chris Carter did at the same level.
Anyway, does he construct these stats with BIS stringer data for every MiLB game? Or does Chris just use them for KATOH because they’re the only data available?
Genuinely curious.
Couple of things to unpack here:
Carter’s MiLB k rate hovered between 20 and 25%. His absolute lowest was the 20.1 in AA which immediately rebounded to the 25% it had been previously. So yes Chapman struck out more than Carter did during the season with his career best K Rate, but that year was an outlier for Carter. But considering K rates are up pretty significantly from 7 years ago and the fact that Chapman’s K rate was buyoued by a really bad May (40%!) But from July on it was 24.7. I’d call it a wash.
Secondly, all parks aren’t created equal and Midland (and even more so in Nashville) have seemed to suppress players who hit for power to RC and RF. And a look at his spray chart for last year certainly makes it seem like he had an abnormally large amount of fly outs at the warning track in RC and RF. Now while I don’t think Chapman’s going to hit for a high average, I think the .245 had more to do with the park than ability.
Meanwhile,Chris Carter’s K% at the same age “from July on” was 21.5%…in AAA
And what do you blame for his .250 AVG as a 22 year old in the Cal League?
Or the .237 AVG as a 21 year old in Low-A?
I’d be much more inclined to believe in Midland’s being to blame for his low average if Chapman had ever hit more than .250, at any level.
I’d say that 200 PAs in low A doesn’t really tell me anything and .250 is fine as long as he continues he’s to maintain a +90 OBP and hit for power.
Again, strikeouts are up just a tad from 7 years ago.
You’re right. “Just a tad” is an accurate way to describe the 2.6% increase in average MLB K-rate over the last 7 years, when compared to the difference between Carter and Chapman.
2010 wasn’t 2004 — it’s the year offense dropped off league-wide.
Also…hitting .250 in the Cal League as a 22 year old out of D1 really isn’t an indicator of being able to hit .250 in the MLB.
You seem overly concerned with his batting average. As long as his OBP stays north of .315 or so and he continues slugging around 500 I don’t really see the issue here.
WRC+ is league adjusted and in Stockton he was 139. Midland 141. Combine that with Gold Glove defense (Sickels: “Chapman may be the best 3b glove I’ve ever seen) it not hard to see why KATOH liked him so much.
If he can’t hit .220, his OBP won’t stay north of .315, and he won’t slug around .500.
Not sure why you have so much trouble understanding that…
One thing I’ve noticed is that scouts are really skeptical of Phillies AA prospects. Hoskins and Cozens had crazy numbers there, but how well does the park factor for that stadium represent the power spikes there? If the park factor for that stadium is off (and I assume there’s a park factor input for KATOH) then it might explain why KATOH thinks Cozens is the next home run king.
StatCorner’s park factors (http://www.statcorner.com/team/522/2016/Reading%20Fightin%20Phils) indicate that park is much friendlier to right-handed hitters (such as Darin Ruf or Rhys Hoskins) than it is to lefties, like Cozens. So it doesn’t ding Cozens all that hard. And even with those adjustments, we’re talking 40 homers and 21 steals as a 22-year-old in Double-A. Additionally, Clay Davenport’s metrics had him as a +13 defender in right field last year, so KATOH likes his defense more than the scouts.
OK, I’m a life-long Cubs fan and I read several Cubs blogs on a regular basis. So yes, I’ve heard of Isaac Paredes before, and I know that the organization thinks he’s got some nice upside potential. But I haven’t seen anyone that even lists him in the Cubs top 10 (MLBPipeline has him at number 19, and Eric Longenhagen has him at 17). So … to see him in MLB’s top 50 on both of your lists was a bit of shock. Seriously, I hope the guy goes golden and makes you look like a genius, but he’s got barely 200 PAs combined in Rookie and Low-A (mostly Rookie) with a slash line of .296/.350/.425 – that’s nice, but you’re packing a whole lot of projection into a #43 KATOH rank, and I just don’t get how KATOH+ doesn’t ding him more for not even sniffing a baseball-wide ranking.
Eric had him as a 40 FV, so it isn’t as though he’s a complete non-prospect according to scouting types. KATOH’s a sucker for guys who have contact and youth at a premium position, which sometimes turns up unorthodox names. For example, KATOH liked Luis Urias back when he was in Rookie Ball in 2014 before anyone had heard of him and now he looks like a future everyday player. All that being said, I admit his ranking feels weird, but hopefully he makes me look like a genius three years from now 🙂
Oh yeah, he’s definitely a legitimate prospect. And at his age he could definitely still develop into a useful or even good major leaguer. But #2 in the Cubs organization ahead of guys who are already so close to contributing at the major league level like Happ, Almora, Candelario, and Zagunis …? At this point those guys all have a floor of at least a cup of coffee in The Show – Paredes has several years of possibly flaming out before he gets there. By way of illustration, Almora already has .9 fWAR. As much as I’d like to be wrong, at this point I’m not sure that I’d take the over on Paredes even exceeding Almora’s current career totals.
But bottom line, I’d love for you to be a genius 🙂
Happ strikes out a lot, Almora was just average at the plate in the minors, Zagunis is 24, Candelario is slow, and Paredes is really young and KATOH loves youth.
Paredes was also unusually good especially at things KATOH likes. The only thing dragging down his line is the showing at SB where he still only struck out 2 times in 13 PAs as a 17 YO. He hit for above average power in the AZL where the league ISO was .108, hit for average, didn’t strike out, even stole some bases and took some walks….His age 17 in the AZL was stronger than Torres’ offensively, and Torres is a strong SS/MIF prospect.
All true. But as Chris said, his ranking still feels weird.
BTW, interestingly enough, Torres’s post AZL KATOH in 2015 was 10.6 which placed him 10th overall.
Paredes’ AZL tour was better than Torres’, but Torres went to Eugene and picked up 6 XBHs in 32 PAs, including a HR. That probably explains the difference.
If I understand it correctly, KATOH is supposed to run like a life insurance pricing algorithm: given person X at age Y with baseline circumstances Z, you figure out how likely is the person to die at any given age through the term of the policy, and then add premium payments to hopefully ensure that on average the insurance company comes out ahead. For example, when comparing life insurance for a 20 year old healthy kid and a 50 year old smoker, the premiums over time for the 50 year-old are adjusted upwards to compensate for his likely poor health, but relatively speaking, the 20 year old kid still gets dinged for the fact that he may die in a car crash before he reaches 50.
In this context, the point is that Paredes could still check out any time between Short Season and AAA – and probably will. OTOH, Happ, Almora, Candelario and Zagunis have already passed that point and have a far greater chance of ever reaching the majors. KATOH is basically telling us that that in order to compensate for the extra time and development that it’ll take for Paredes to get to the majors, his upside is better than that of anyone else in the organization – not just better, but significantly better. I find that hard to believe (but I’d be overjoyed if true).
Please note, I’m not trying to point out how wonderful the other four are (or Jiminez for that matter, who raw KATOH still rates below Paredes), but just how surprising it is that Paredes is rated so highly based on so little performance data. As it is, as far as I can tell, he only had 198 PAs in his debut last season, so I’m not even sure why he’s on this list at all.
While we are at it, regarding a couple of your specific points: If Almora can be average at the plate in the majors, then he will far exceed his KATOH projections with defense alone. And if the worst thing you can say about a corner infielder is that he’s slow, then he must be a really good player.
In the top prospects posts, Anthony Banda was given a 4.3 KATOH+ and he’s at the top of my Dbacks prospects lists and in a couple top 100s. Not enough to make it here?
He dipped down to 3.9 after some minor adjustments. He just missed the cut.
If traditional prospect top 100 lists gave some context for projected WAR, perhaps people would chill a bit. For example, a Dodgers fan might get pissed that Yadier Alvarez is ranked 93rd while Mike Soroka is ranked 54th if this were a traditional list. But by KATOH+, that is a projected difference of about 0.2 WAR per season. That is 39 spots in the rankings that don’t make a whole lot of difference. The difference between #2 and #3 is almost twice as large.
Eh, the FV rankings do that.
This is a good point. For example, here’s Kiley’s top-200 list from a couple of years ago broken out by FV:
70 FV: 1-2
65 FV: 3-8
60 FV: 9-28
55 FV: 29-79
50 FV: 80-142
The point is, once you get to the back half of these lists, the order means very little.
What defensive stat/stats does KATOH use for minor leaguers?
Great question since someone like Margot is going to be heavily dependent on his defensive value.
I use the minor league defensive stats from Clay Davenport: http://www.claydavenport.com/ht/MARGOT19940928A.shtml
Thanks! In the link, it just says “Defense” and gives a value. Could you give a rough idea of what this number is based on?
I guess it makes sense that Cozen’s 40/20 season vaulted him to #1 on raw stats, but I am surprised factoring in scouting didn’t drop him lower than #26 on list 1. He hasn’t sniffed any top 100 lists out there . . .
Eric gave him a 45 FV, which isn’t bad. That makes him roughly a borderline top-200 guy.
One thing I find interesting about this list is that Beede is ranked 49th on this list yet is ranked 2nd on the Giants prospects list, which is topped off by Arroyo. I understand that it’s because of the difference between their KATOH projections. I’m just wondering why the disparity between KATOH and their respective FV ratings.
KATOH was turned off by Arroyo’s down year at Double-A last year. He essentially looks like a 3B without any power or speed.
Impressed by Victor Robles placement in the “stats only” list. Should I be? Not knowing the ages of the other prospects, can other fans point out the “under 20” prospects in the top 50 in that list?
No, you’re right to be impressed by Robles. He’s got a lot going for him. Ozzie Albies, Kyle Tucker, Rafael Devers, and Gleyber Torres played last year under 20 (just over 20 now). Arraez, Triston McKenzie, Isaac Paredes, and Luis Urias are still under 20. Szapucki and Verdugo are close. This sort of method heavily rewards prospects who are young for their level though, so it’s going to penalize college players more than prep/international stars because college players are almost never young for their level.
Robles is excellent. He and Rosario right now are the favorites for #1 in 2018. That had little to do with your post
Hey remember when all these guys used to be on the red sox?
Was looking for F. Martes — no love from KATOH?
He’s there. 37th and 90th
THANKS!
I’m curious what changed between the release of the team lists and this top-100 list. For example, Jose De Leon had a KATOH+ of 10.1 in the Dodgers Top 21 list, but only an 8.0 on this list. I’m assuming the updated BA top-100?
That’s part of it, as he dropped from 25th to 29th on BA’s list. The projections also shifted around a bit as I added in a new year of data to the models (meaning historical prospects who played their 6th year MLB in 2016).
How is John Schuknecht that high on both lists? He only has 200 professional at-bats and all in Rookie Ball. He was been solid but nothing special for a 21-year-old. I have never even seen him on an Angels prospects list. 37th round pick last year.
That was my reaction too when I saw his name. But he did hit .292/.373/.533 with speed last year. Of course, small sample and proximity from the majors caveats apply a million times over. I’m not going to pretend his ranking makes sense, but I get it.
Despite the lack of velocity data, there are some interesting pitchers high on this list than the other guys have them. Including some that aren’t even on those lists: Szapucki, McKenzie, Beede. Even Kopech isn’t a universal top prospect list pick despite his flame throwing fame. Perhaps the system is still biased to velocity through K rates anyway?
I want to talk about Szapucki some more, since the Mets article went up today. His stats are ridiculous, but he’s barely pitched at all. Does KATOH think he’s a starter, or is it giving him that projection even though it considers him a reliever?
There’s something unsavory about this list. There are a ton of 17 year olds that hit better in rookie ball than did Vlad Jr, and not only are they not ahead of him, they’re not even among the top 100. Something is really fishy about the methodology here.
Care to name some of these stud 17-year-olds so I can explain why KATOH is low on them?
Andres Gimenez, Juan Soto, Oswaldo Cabrera, Esteury Ruiz… to start.
To those down voting me, it’s healthy to question why things are the way they are, instead of just accepting things when they don’t look right.
Might it have something to do with their high BABIPs when Baby Vlad ran a .283 BABIP?
Andres Gimenez had a higher walk rate, a lower strikeout rate and an identical ISO. Both the walk rate and the strikeout rate are significantly on the side of Gimenez.
Although they’re both marked as “R” at FanGraphs, the DSL is a much different environment than the Appy League. Vlad faced much better competition than Gimenez.
I agree this is a fair question.
Gimenez, Cabrera and Ruiz didn’t make the 200 PA cut since some or all of their PAs came in the DSL, which I do not try to project. The DSL is different than the domestic rookie leagues and features a lower level of competition.
Soto wasn’t too far from making both lists, but there are a few reasons Vlad looks like the superior prospect. For starters, Vlad’s 5 months younger and played in one of the more advanced domestic rookie leagues (Appalachian League), while Soto played in the GCL, which is in the lower rung. Vlad posted a significantly better BB% and K% than Soto and also stole more bases. All Soto really has on Vlad is power output, and a lot of that comes from their +.120 gap in BABIP. So although Soto had the better wRC+ in rookie ball, Vlad’s season was more impressive considering how he did it and his level of competition.
Thanks for the answer. That’s really informative and it definitely helps that you separate different league performances.
For Guerrero, which 6 years are you counting for him? Is this assuming he makes the majors starting in 2019?
It projects the next nine years for Rookie Ball guys, so that more or less assumes he’ll debut opening day 2020 and be up for good.
Seeing Barreto and Chapman so high up on your lists seriously made my day. Thanks for the optimism, Chris!
Damn, Houston. With the current MLB roster and this, go ahead and schedule the parades.
I followed one of the links but stupidly still couldn’t figure it out. What is the definition of “thru First 6 Seasons”, or what is it intended to represent? Is it the first six years they appear in the majors at all?
Right, it is intended to represent his first six years in the majors (roughly his time under team control).
Interesting that German Marquez joined the list while Kevin Padlo fell off — a weird trade just keeps getting weirder
Padlo had a weird year–whacked a bunch of HRs and had an average of .230. But that was in A-Ball as a 20 year old. I bet he fell off because his strikeout rate jumped a bit.
Surprised Brendan Rodgers misses the KATOH+ list entirely… 60 FV from Longenhagen, 16 on the BA list, put up pretty good numbers while playing a decent share of his games at short
This is pretty shocking. His K/BB/ISO and level are almost identical to Eloy Jimenez AND he plays shortstop. This one probably needs an explanation.
OK, I’m a Rockies fan, so I thought maybe I was just being a homer…
If you think he’s stuck at second, I’m not sure how his profile looks worse than someone like Antequera. If you combine Antequera’s stints between A- and R ball, he’s got a few points on Rodgers in K% but is worse in most everything else (Age, Level, prospect ranking, position, BB%, ISO, BABIP).
It looks like Rodgers made a bunch of errors at short last year, so maybe KATOH doesn’t think he sticks there, but I used the comp to Antequera because he’s a 2B (played most his innings there last year). Not sure a few points in K% should sacrifice all those other benefits.
Working on a post about Rodgers, so I won’t hash it out here. But there are a few reasons KATOH doesn’t like Rodgers. Stay tuned!
Any plans for multiple seasons of inpout for KATOH? Also, regressing the stats so that 100 PA are not weighted the same as 600 PA?
KATOH does both of those things already. It incorporates 2 seasons of data (when applicable) and regresses all stats for sample size.
KATOH doesn’t see cozen’s huge home/road, splits platoon splits or strikeout rate? why does it like him so much?
Finally some gosh dang respeck for the potential stud that is Isaac Paredes. Dude can hit! All I’m looking for is a Kipnis/Pedroia hybrid at 2B, that’s it. His season was on point, periphs as well as the money making lines. Arguably the best age 17 season in the Cubs’ minor league history, largely because I’m too lazy to fact check to the extent it should be.
I guess I am still learning but I am confused why Nimmo is 21 overall in KATOH 2017 and Cecchini #28, yet everything else I see is so pessimistic about their futures. Is it because they don’t have a clear fielding position at the majors for their tools?
What about Corey Ray? No love… Love your work by the way!