Orioles Do Something, Add Lottery Ticket in Travis Snider
It’s been a frustrating offseason for Baltimore fans, he says to people who already know just how little the Orioles have done. Nelson Cruz, Nick Markakis, Andrew Miller, and Nick Hundley have all left town. The entirety of the work the team has done to replace them was to bring back Delmon Young and import reliever Wesley Wright. While you can’t draw a straight line between the team’s inactivity and the ongoing “is Dan Duquette leaving for Toronto” saga, it’s easy to see how some may look to see a relationship there.
Trading for Travis Snider, as the O’s did on Tuesday night, won’t change that. But that we’re talking about him says a little bit about what the Baltimore offseason has come to, a lot about the state of baseball news on January 28th, and something about a player that the Orioles clearly hope can become their next scrapheap pickup to yield results on a team that’s making something of a habit out of confounding the expectations.
There’s no way to sugarcoat this, really: Snider’s major league career has been a bust, at least so far as the expectations go for being the 14th overall pick in the 2006 draft. It’s fair to wonder what might have been had the Blue Jays let him get more than 18 Triple-A games before promoting him to the big leagues as a 20-year-old in 2008, despite the fact that he’d struck out 27.4% of the time in 423 Double-A plate appearances prior to that. Still, he was rated as a top-6 overall prospect by both BA and BP headed into 2009… and never quite stuck.
Snider spent most of his Toronto tenure bouncing between the bigs and the farm, dealing with wrist injuries, never receiving more than 319 plate appearances for the Jays and spending at least 25 games in the minors every year before being dealt to Pittsburgh late in 2012 for another failed first-rounder, pitcher Brad Lincoln. His first full year as a Pirate was a replacement-level disaster as he tried to play through a foot injury that would later require surgery; his second was a surprising 121 wRC+ success that included a second half where he hit as well as Andrew McCutchen, Miguel Cabrera and Michael Brantley.
It should go without saying, yet will be said here anyway, that two good months don’t outweigh years of disappointment. You could become very wealthy simply betting against “but he had a good second half” outliers. It’s possible, probable even, that we’ll look back on this and wondered why we even bothered thinking about Snider, although in that case I suppose we won’t be looking back upon it at all. But Snider, despite all his failures, remains fascinating, if only because of that long-ago prospect shine, but also because there’s still some things to like about him. It’s been a long time since Snider was that top prospect, but sometimes it takes time to work things out. It’s just that for Snider, not enough of that time was spent quietly failing, in the minors.
Start with this: He’s still only turning 27 next month, and despite the disappointments, he’s been basically a league-average hitter over the last three seasons, cutting his whiff rate by eight percent last year. His batted ball distance jump in 2014 was the third-biggest of anyone in baseball, all the way up to No. 8 overall, and No.1 overall if you’re looking only at lefty hitters. (Yasmani Grandal is a switch-hitter.) The non-Coors guys in front of him? Paul Goldschmidt, George Springer, Giancarlo Stanton, Jose Abreu, and Cabrera. It’s impressive company. His peripherals offer hope: He struck out less, walked more. He’s been swinging less overall, and making contact more.
Even before you factor in ballparks — and we will in a second — the projections look upon him favorably. Steamer has him down for a 108 wRC+, and while it might seem much for a “first-round bust” to be seen as an above-average hitter, well, remember that’s actually down from the 121 from last year that wasn’t even a BABIP mirage. There’s also this, and sorry, Braves fans: You might not like what Steamer/600 has to say.
| Name | PA | 2B | 3B | HR | BB | SO | AVG | OBP | SLG | OPS | wOBA | wRC+ | BsR | Fld | Off | Def | WAR |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Snider | 600 | 27 | 2 | 18 | 53 | 124 | .253 | .322 | .412 | .734 | .323 | 108 | 0 | -2.3 | 5.4 | -11.2 | 1.3 |
| Markakis | 600 | 26 | 1 | 11 | 51 | 75 | .266 | .333 | .379 | .712 | .317 | 101 | -0.8 | -2.4 | 0.2 | -8.9 | 1 |
Is that crazy? It seems, I admit, crazy. After all, Markakis is a veteran who just got a four-year deal worth $44 million; Snider is a part-time player who just got Baltimore’s No. 9 prospect and a player to be named. We’ve been over the Markakis vs. defensive metrics issue more than once here before, and so I’m not going to rehash it here. Either you believe in defensive metrics or you don’t; we can probably agree at the very least that Markakis is the superior defender by some margin.
But even if we keep it just to offense, well, Snider was the better hitter last year. He’s been the better hitter over the last two years. That’s on a rate basis, obviously, because Markakis played far more, but Snider is also more than four years younger and not coming off major neck surgery. The fact that Snider is almost certainly going to strike out more often is going to be used as a point against him, and while I’m not going to pretend it’s a good thing, we know that “overall production” is more important than “strikes out less.”
There is the ballpark issue to add in here, anyway. Snider is a pull hitter who was playing in a Pittsburgh ballpark that, by our metrics, was brutal on lefty power, finishing above only six other parks. He’s going to a park in Baltimore that was considered more favorable to lefties than anywhere other than Coors Field and Yankee Stadium. Here’s an ESPN article from before 2014 that indicated that while the HR/FB to right in Baltimore was 15.6%, it was only 9.4% in Pittsburgh.
Of course, the Markakis comparison above is using Steamer/600, which is based on 600 plate appearances. That’s not going to happen for Snider. Prior to the trade, the Orioles outfield/DH situation looked something like this:
LF: Alejandro De Aza / David Lough
CF: Adam Jones
RF: Lough / Steve Pearce
DH: Young / Pearce / Chris Davis
So now there’s flexibility, though adding a lefty swinger to the De Aza / Lough mix is a little awkward. Maybe Snider platoons with Pearce in right, pushing Lough to the defensive replacement role he’s probably best suited for. Maybe he takes plate appearances from De Aza in left, pushing him to the backup role he’s best suited for. Maybe he platoons with Young at DH. Maybe Davis’ 2014 disaster extends into 2015, and Pearce is playing a lot more first than right. There’s time enough to sort all this out. Other than Jones, this was not an impenetrable group.
It’s not like the Pirates got taken here, anyway. With McCutchen, Starling Marte, and Gregory Polanco, they’re more than covered in the outfield, and they have enough backups in Corey Hart, Jose Tabata, and Andrew Lambo. That they’re sending Snider out says something, though it might be nothing more than shaving a few million dollars of payroll by trading from a position of strength to add some pitching prospect depth. Even if that’s all it is, they turned nothing into something, getting a few good months out of Snider and then turning that into talent.
This isn’t going to turn the Orioles offseason around single-handedly. It might not even have been a better use of a roster spot than ponying up a few million more to get Colby Rasmus, though the fact that Rasmus can play center matters less on a team with Jones. It might, however, be the latest entry in the team wringing value out of basically free discarded outfielders. It worked with Nate McLouth in 2013. It worked with Pearce in 2014. It may or may not work with Snider in 2015, but it’s absolutely worth trying.
Mike Petriello used to write here, and now he does not. Find him at @mike_petriello or MLB.com.
Cody Ross is on the Pirates?
whoops, Corey Hart. Cody, Corey, whatever. (Fixed now.)
An odd trade form the Pirates side. Snider was a real savior late last year when Cutch got hurt, but I guess SSS applies and Tabata/Lambo/Decker/Rojas isn’t really all that bad as bench options. I also think they are likely happy with Harrison as an OF in the event of an injury with Kang filling in at 3B.
Good points, particularly about Harrison in the OF if Kang works out. I didn’t focus on the Pirates that much here, obviously, but that’s partially because we don’t know the full trade yet. I imagine the PTBNL is someone from the 2014 draft class.
Yeah, the return is likely to be pretty good, just weird to trade your 4th OF on a contender for A ball arms.
wasn’t surprised that Snider could be had, but that the market wasn’t a little more active for him TBH.
I prefer Kodos to Kang.
T/F: Markakis was the worst FA transaction of the winter?
It’s the most bizarre, given that it is an overpayment by a team that has acknowledged a rebuilding effort, but I would argue that the Billy Butler, Nelson Cruz, Michael Cuddyer (given the lost draft pick), and Russell Martin signings were worse.
If you rate the FA transactions by amount overpaid, I think you’re right.
But I also think that context is important here. Toronto and Seattle are in full win-now mode, and they paid extra to get the help they needed for 2015. Cuddyer’s signing looked awful at the time, but in hindsight doesn’t look as bad, especially with 36 games against the Phils and the Braves to boost the Mets’ wild-card chances. Butler’s signing was just plain weird given Oakland’s aim for low cost, so that might be the worst, except….
If you are trying to save money by dumping Jason Heyward, and then kicking off a full scale rebuilding process, you don’t throw $44 million away on a guy just to have a “hometown boy” on your roster when you open your new stadium in a few years. Not when he’s already 31 and coming off of neck fusion surgery, after being basically a league average player in his late 20’s.
And not when you could have thrown a Travis Snider type guy out there to see if you strike gold. The Markakis signing still takes the cake for worst FA signing this offseason
The Braves weren’t saving money by dumping Heyward, they were resigned to losing him in free agency and sought to get something more useful out of him than one season of performance. Plus, Atlantans already have a love-hate relationship with the Braves that was further strained by moving the stadium to Cobb County. A full-scale, Marlins-style tear-down (that’s a lot of hyphens) could have caused significant public relations problems. I still don’t like the move, as I’ve ranked it fifth worst, but it’s more defensible to me than those others.
The Cuddyer signing was better for the Mets than moving on, say, Melky, because it was only a 2 year contract and they see Nimmo, Conforto and others moving up within that timeframe. They did not want to commit to a longer term contract, and for $21 million it was not a huge financial investment (well, for most teams these days). I also think that Alderson is particularly focusing on “good clubhouse guys”, but that’s a story for another article.
Thank you Mike, some good stuff for O’s fans to chew on. The O’s definitely have their replacement for Markakis, imo. I imagine Pearce will be getting everyday AB’s split between LF, RF, 1B, and DH. Typically against RHP, I think you’ll see DeAza in LF and leading off and Snider/Pearce in RF/DH. Lough, at least at the start of the season before we start to see injuries and just how things shape up, will be the 4th OFer. Assuming Wieters is healthy enough to start the year catching, the bench looks to be Joseph, Flaherty, Young, and Lough. The guys most affected by this trade at the moment are Jimmy Paredes and Alex Hassan. There doesn’t *appear* to be room for either on the 25 man at the moment, imo. Spring Training will be great fun once again for O’s fans.
given the O’s fondness for defense, I had assumed that Lough was going to get the platoon shot in RF. Seems like Lough and deAza are now redundant.
Yeah, I personally would like Lough to get a shot. It just *seems* as though Buck likes DeAza more. Lough looked pretty good in the second half last season and yet DeAza played pretty much everyday once he was acquired. Ultimately, I think Lough makes the team (assuming he isn’t traded beforehand) because of his defense at all three OF spots and because he’d be, by far, the best option to handle CF if something happened to Jones.
Ultimately though, over the course of the long season there will be ebbs and flows. Pearce, for example, could play his way back to a platoon role or buried on the bench. If you remember, Pearce had slumped his way back to the bench and Delmon Young was earning more playing time and then all of a sudden Machado went down, Davis went to third and Pearce was needed at first and he got hot again. Long story long, between Pearce, DeAza, Snider, and Lough, I could see plenty of different combinations.
Will be interesting to see how things shake out.
I’m ok with the Orioles not overpaying to keep last year’s team together, but I wish they had come away with Aoki or Rasmus. Snider’s Z-contact rate did make a pretty significant jump last season, but historically it’s unusual for a guy to sustain that sort of change. His O-Swing% was the lowest of his career, which is great news given that it indicates improving discernment, but by far the biggest difference was first strike percentage. Travis had been over 60% every previous season, but in 2014 was one of the best in the major leagues at getting ahead in the count thanks to his 53.5% rate. Pirates fans would have to say whether or not that was a chance in approach or how he was being pitched. If the former, then some of it is hopefully sustainable and suggests real improvement. If the latter, then last season will look like a fluke and Snider is back to his old disappointing self.
Snider’s numbers last year were somewhat effected by BABIP, against lefties. I know limited ABs, but he had a 200 wRC+ vs lefties last year and was in the negatives the year before.
Still I think this is a decent pickup for the Orioles. A guy who will give you above average production vs righties.
I like this move for a couple reasons. As stated earlier, there’s a fair chance that he produces as well or better than Markakis, at a fraction of the price. If the O’s contend again, Duquette will probably have additional funds to pick up somebody valuable come July.
Secondly, having Snider in RF releases Pearce to 1B if Davis or Machado falter at the corners. If Machado gets injured again, Davis moves to 3B and Pearce covers 1B.
Good read, Mike.
The sequencing and placement of these two sentences implies that the 2nd supports the supposition of the first: it does not. In fact, the first sentence has nothing to do with the rest of the paragraph.
“It’s not like the Pirates got taken here, anyway. With McCutchen, Starling Marte, and Gregory Polanco, they’re more than covered in the outfield, and they have enough backups in Corey Hart, Jose Tabata, and Andrew Lambo.”
Although it is human to undervalue what one has in abundance and overvalue what one lacks, the best GMs are able to.
err, “…the bet GMs are able to properly value.”
What? No, you’re totally wrong. If you have five outfielders slated to produce 5 wins each in 600 ABs, and you have five starters slated to produce 0 wins each in 200 IP, trading one of your outfielders for a five-win pitcher is a MASSIVE upgrade, despite the quality of the players being the same, because you are trading from strength for weakness. That’s obviously a simplified example, but diminishing returns obviously applies to roster management, and the best GMs definitely are not ignoring that.
Snider was only 26 last year, somehow (!). But his career is a textbook case of a guy whose speed profile never supported the ridiculously high BABIPs he had in the minors. With good, not great power, and so-so to middling plate discipline in an era when players on average were better at both of those things, he looks like his prospect status was greatly overrated.
His numbers in the minors look a lot like Jesus Montero’s. I wonder if this profile (medium power, so-so discipline, crazy high BABIPs) is likely to be a bust in the majors? If so, watch out Kris Bryant.
Kris Bryant and medium power? His ISO has been well into the .300s and Kiley has his raw power at 75/80 on the scout scale.
Snider was only 26 last year, somehow (!). But his career is a textbook case of a guy whose speed profile never supported the ridiculously high BABIPs he had in the minors. With good, not great power, and so-so to middling plate discipline in an era when players on average were better at both of those things, he looks like his prospect status was greatly overrated.
His numbers in the minors look a lot like Jesus Montero’s. I wonder if this profile (medium power, so-so discipline, crazy high BABIPs) is likely to be a bust in the majors?
Why are you looking at his Minor league numbers? He has approximately 1,550 major league at bats to look at. I really don’t think you look back anymore…
I’m pretty upset about this trade. I actually think Polanco is going to be a bust and this was the year Snider became our full time RF. He doesn’t dazzle defensively but he can hit for power. Nobody gave this guy a chance except for when we had injuries and he came through again and again. I think he will become the full time RF in baltimore and be a 30 HR guy with 100+ RBIS for the next few years.
Yeah crazy to say that.. but he will.. If they actually start him.
Nobody gave Snider a chance, yet you are willing to call Polanco a bust after 312 Plate appearances… sounds reasonable…..
This is a great opportunity for Snider:
1. OPCY will add ten HRs to his earlier yearly totals.
2. Playing in AL-East sometimes brings out the best in underachievers
3. Playing for Buck will help him.
4. Good locker atmosphere will too.
Great read, thanks!
I was hoping for Michael Saunders before Toronto got him, and then Blackmon, and was pretty ‘meh’ when this trade took place.
But I’m much more encouraged after reading.
I do think Markakis will flop miserably in Atlanta, but I wish he had remained in BMore in a reduced role.
But it looks like Snider will be ok, unless his defense is as bad as the steamer graph indicates. In that case, illner less enthusiastic.
Snider hit some moon shots his rookie year in Toronto. Really liked his compact powerful swing. Sort of reminded me of a mini Delgado
As a Pirates fan, my favorite paragraph is the last, where Baltimore has had success with McLouth, Pearce, and are hoping for Snider. The other two were Pirates cast offs also! It’s like they’re doing to the Pirates outfielders what the Pirates are doing to the Yankees catchers. Bring them in, make the most out of them, ride them to the playoffs.
Anyone who fights carlos Gomez is alright in my book
Doltrain, give us more?