This Isn’t the Time to Trade Matt Harvey
We’re a little early for Dave Cameron’s annual must-read Trade Value series, but I suspect Matt Harvey won’t be appearing in it this year. I feel quite certain about that prognostication — even if Harvey avoids exile to the minor leagues and returns instead to his vintage 2013 form over the next few weeks.
Harvey met with the media Tuesday afternoon at Citi Field and tried to begin taking some accountability for his recent actions.
More from Matt Harvey pic.twitter.com/AgoCgZLdDi
— SNY (@SNYtv) May 9, 2017
The “Dark Knight” was celebrating a late Cinco de Mayo at 1Oak until 4 a.m. Saturday — just hours before he failed to show up for a game at Citi Field, reportedly because of a “migraine,” sources said.
If true, it’s remarkable that folks still believe they can escape truth in an era of smart phones and social media.
A day earlier, Jon Heyman reported that Harvey and his agent Scott Boras planned to file a grievance over the suspension. It was suggested that the Harvey camp was displeased with the Mets’ decision to send team officials over to Harvey’s apartment for a check-in. Whatever the case, there doesn’t appear to be a lot of trust here.
The Mets’ 2017 season has become quite the soap opera, and it stars Harvey.
Mets fans are rightly tired of Harvey’s act and latest irresponsible decision. Many are calling for him to be traded, including voices like Joe Gigilo of NJ.com, who recently opined that Harvey’s career as a Mets pitcher is “over” and that the Mets “should look to deal Harvey right now… as soon as possible.”
I get it. I’m a native Clevelander, one who lived through the Johnny Manziel era. Let’s hope Harvey’s issues aren’t as severe and troubling. It’s possible that Harvey is too much of a distraction. Only those who reside in the Mets’ clubhouse really know.
But this is a poor time to sell on Harvey. The worst of times, really. Even if Harvey were pitching well and showing up at the ballpark, his trade value wouldn’t be particularly high at the moment. He has just 1.6 seasons of club control remaining. Add in his poor performance this season, his off-the-field antics, and his attempt this year to return from a second major surgery — in this case, to address thoracic outlet syndrome — and Harvey’s trade value has significantly declined.
Harvey’s upside outweighs his up-to-the-second trade value for the Mets. Because the upside remains significant.
Consider: Harvey was ranked seventh in Dave’s trade value list from 2013. In 2014, Harvey was ranked 25th by that same measure. In 2015, Cameron ranked Harvey 27th overall.
And it’s not as if Cameron was alone in his esteem for Harvey. Jonah Keri included Harvey within his own version of the list at Grantland. This was a pre-arbitration ace both before and after Tommy John surgery.
A three-time trade-value-list member is almost by definition a talented individual.
The problem with trading Harvey now is that he simply has a much reduced value. The other problem with trading Harvey is that the Mets really need him to be good. Noah Syndergaard is hurt. Steven Matz is always hurt. The club’s playoff odds have fallen to 30%. Even a diminished Harvey still projects to be the Mets’ third-best arm (1.8 WAR, 4.07 FIP) the rest of the way. You don’t want to punt a season in mid-May.
It certainly seems as though Harvey’s long-term future is somewhere else besides New York — and maybe the club and player will be better off eventually parting ways — but the Mets’ best hope of near-term improvement probably includes Harvey producing a characteristically strong performance going forward.
If the Mets traded Harvey right now, what would his value be? He would have some value, surely. He wouldn’t have zero value. At 28, he’s still relatively young. He still has an above-average fastball (94 mph) — one that has touched 98 mph — and which exhibited better velocity in his last start. He still has four pitches. He still has perceived upside. I asked Dave Cameron for a recent trade-value comp. He mentioned Matt Moore, in that season when Moore was traded from Tampa Bay to San Francisco.
Cameron noted that Moore isn’t a perfect comp for Harvey. He had two extra years of control at the time of his own trade. He’s similar, though, in that his talent wasn’t producing commensurate results.
The Rays enjoyed a not insignificant return in the form of Matt Duffy, Lucius Fox, and Michael Santos. Because of his control and off-the-field concerns, the Mets would likely receive less for Harvey.
Last year, Craig Edwards imagined a Joc Pederson-Harvey deal.
So it’s not that has Harvey has no value; he would have some if he were put on the market today. But as frustrating as he’s been to the Mets’ clubhouse, he still has more value as part of their rotation than out of it. Now, if the Mets fall further out of the race, if Harvey’s performance improves, revisiting a trade in July would make more sense and could yield the club a greater return.
The advice from this free-of-charge analyst is to “hold,” as unsatisfying as that might seem to the Mets fans and some in the organization. The advice here is to have incredible patience and hope to be rewarded for it.
Maybe Harvey will never be able to pitch with his reduced velocity, a possibility which Eno Sarris examined this spring this spring. But his velocity is up from the spring. The Mets believed he was going to require some time to get feel back in regard to his secondary stuff. If he can stay healthy and in good standing with the team, Harvey is a good bet to better the rest of the way. Maybe he will never be his 2013- or 2015-self again, but he can be better.
ESPN’s Buster Olney suggested something else — namely, that Harvey be sent to the minors. (Perhaps an affiliate other than Las Vegas!)
"Matt, your partying is hurting this team, and yourself. You leave us no choice but to send you to uh Las Vegas." https://t.co/BwaSTMkj2N
— David Roth (@david_j_roth) May 9, 2017
A Cleveland native, FanGraphs writer Travis Sawchik is the author of the New York Times bestselling book, Big Data Baseball. He also contributes to The Athletic Cleveland, and has written for the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, among other outlets. Follow him on Twitter @Travis_Sawchik.
Because he’s the starter the Mets deserve, but not the starter they need right now.
I wish I could thumbs-up this three times.
Do you have three thumbs, or is there another reason you chose that number?
“The club’s playoff odds have fallen to 30%. ”
That is some old rounded data… currently at 43.4% and the low point, on May 2nd, was 32.7%
“Maybe a minor-league trip would re-focus Harvey.”
FYI the Mets AAA affiliate is in Las Vegas.
Hence the David Roth Tweet above:
“Matt, your partying is hurting this team, and yourself. You leave us no choice but to send you to uh Las Vegas.”
I think what srriley84 is implying is that Las Vegas is perhaps not the ideal place for a party person to attempt to regain focus.
I think that’s also what Travis Sawchik and David Roth were already implying.
The Vegas / irresponsible partying juxtaposition is duly noted, but couldn’t the Mets also send him down to Binghamton, bypassing the temptations of Las Vegas as well as issuing some added punishment with a 2-level demotion?
So I agree with this article, you don’t want to trade Harvey for pennies on the dollar. He gets his performance straightened out even a little and he’ll have way more value on the trade market, and the Mets need pitchers anyway. But…
…I don’t think it’s fair to compare Harvey to Manziel. Most of the drama around Harvey has been how he’s handled his recovery from surgery and given the Mets’ track record he deserves some latitude. He’s immature and sulks and tweets himself giving the finger but this isn’t like Manziel who had ongoing issues with drugs, accountability, and aggressive/violent behavior going back years. I don’t like Matt Harvey but the Manziel comparison isn’t my thing.
Fwiw there has never been a “good” time to trade Harvey.
When Harvey was pitching exceptionally well and had 3+ years of control left no one wanted to move him. A trade at that time seemed inconceivable and unrealistic.
Now, pitching poorly and w/ 1.6 years of control, no one is enthusiastic about a Harvey deal either.
There’s always risk involved with trading assets at the MLB level. The best way for front offices to manage that risk? Avoid it. Don’t do anything.
Alas, if Harvey’s still pitching poorly in July 2018, what will his market look like?
I’m a die hard Mets fan, have been my entire 30 years on this Earth; Harvey used to be one of my favorite players. I have his jersey, countless autographed cards, etc. Now though, he just seems to be more trouble than he’s worth. If the team didn’t need him so badly right now I’d say dump him. 3 years ago I would have slapped myself for having that thought, but now, I just want this headache over with (pun intended). What a bummer.
Stop sending him out against the high powered Braves. 16 IP, 7.82 ERA and 1.49 WHIP.
His ERA is 2.84 against everyone else
For some reason I can’t delete my post above. I didn’t notice his first start was against the Braves also, so it’s actually 3.37 against everyone else. The 2.84 ERA was in his first 4 starts, then his last two were both against ATL (11.17 ERA in those two starts). That first start against ATL was 2 ER in 6 2/3 IP.
The Mets shouldn’t be straight dumping him, no, but other teams know about his pedigree, and perhaps there are teams that want to take a chance on a Cy Young type talent and will pay closer to fair value. It is probably in the interest of clubhouse chemistry (I’m normally as against using this as an important factor as most, but it’s hard to argue in some extreme cases this does matter) to make a trade that is a little less than fair on its face.
I agree with this. Not that Noah or Matz or Jacob aren’t capable of making smarter choices but an MLB clubhouse appears to be very hierarchical in structure. Harvey is the Alpha and he could set a tone for the others. If even 5% of his habits rub off that’s too much. Young pitchers should be emulating and learning from Roy Halladay types not Matt Harvey.
But again. You can’t just dump him. Tough spot for the Mets likely of their own creation. It’s easy to turn a blind eye when one is pitching like the Dark Knight. I am sure his behaviour didn’t suddenly become unsavory this season.
Matz? Who’s Matz? I have no recollection of a Matz ever playing for the New York Mets.
Here’s a guy coming back from injury and already the Mets have twice asked him to pitch out of turn. So he has had a bad little stretch, and now this nonsense. But he has also had some decent starts and it makes sense command may take some time. I wouldn’t be making plans to trade him now, and deal with any idea of moving him later. If at all. Maybe he bounces back. Always wait for more information. Trading him now makes no sense. They need him to pitch well, and he needs to do it for his own financial future. Otherwise it’s Tommy Milone all the way down.
I can’t imagine a team giving up something of real consequence for Harvey. Just look at the K-rate: it’s declined for five straight years (not including the missed 2014), and some of those yearly declines have been quite significant. His K/9 is 5.14 (13.5%). This is the 4th worst number in baseball, right next to Jared Weaver (he’s 3rd worse if you go by K%). This is terrible! You could cut him some slack because he’s coming off of surgery, but I don’t think that helps paint a picture that he’s going to be better going forward. The best post-thoracic outlet pitcher is Jaime Garcia! And Harvey is no ordinary TOS pitcher, given that he’s a TJS pitcher as well.
2013 Harvey was an absolute monster and 2015 Harvey was pretty good too. That guy or anything close to him is never coming back.
Harvey made terrible decisions, but the Mets management compounded the problem by opening suspending him and making their internal issue public. If they really wanted to rid them of Harvey they should have not aired their dirty laundry.
Harvey for McCutchen and Clay Holmes.
That package makes no sense but the Pirates do seem like a potential match for a Harvey trade.
Atleast the Mets dont have 4 starting pitchers who have all inexplicably lost 2 mph on their fastball. So they have that going for themselves.
The Mets can’t trade him now because the return will be next to nothing. If he rebuilds his value by pitching well, the Mets are probably in the race so they won’t be trading him at the deadline. That gets us to next offseason and he would have 1 year left of cost control and a weird professional and personal reputation at that point which probably doesn’t bring back a huge return either. My advice would be to use every last bullet Harvey has this year and next (if those bullets are even effective) and then move on. It’s not a terrible result.
I agree. Let’s all see if he straightens up and focuses on his pitching rather than on his partying.
I actually sympathize a lot with Matt in this situation. I mean, If I was boning Adriana Lima, and then was no longer allowed to bone Adriana Lima while she hooked up with an ex, I would crawl into a bottle of whiskey as well.