2014 Trade Value: #20 – #11
Welcome to the fourth part of this year’s Trade Value series. If you haven’t already, read the intro and get yourself acquainted with what question this is trying to answer, as well as an incomplete list of guys who missed the cut for one reason or another. You can see all the posts in the series here.
A few quick notes on the columns listed for each player. After the normal biographical information, I’ve listed Projected WAR, which is essentially a combination of ZIPS and Steamer’s current rest-of-season forecasts extrapolated out to a full-season’s worth of playing time. For non-catcher position players, this is 600 plate appearances; catchers are extrapolated to 450 PAs. For pitchers, this is extrapolated to 200 innings. It is not their 2014 WAR, or their last calendar year WAR; it is a rough estimate of what we might expect them to do over a full-season, based on the information we have now.
For contract status, we have two pieces of information. “Controlled Through” includes all years before a player accumulates enough time to be eligible for free agency, all guaranteed years of a contract already signed, and any years covered by team options that could be exercised in the future. Player options and mutual options are not included, as the assumption is that players of this caliber will generally opt-out of their current contracts if given the chance.
The “Contract Dollars” column includes the base salaries of each player in the controlled years going forward, starting from 2015 — the 40% of 2014 salary remaining is not included in the calculation — including the value of team options, since we’re assuming that they will be picked up. In many cases, players have incentives for various accomplishments that affect the base salaries, but those are not accounted for here, simply because of the tedious work of calculating all those incentive prices and the fact that $100,000 for an All-Star appearance or $500,000 for an MVP-finish there aren’t going to change the overall calculations. This column is not an exact representation of their future earnings, but should be close enough for our purposes.
For players who are under team control but not under guaranteed contract, I’ve listed out which arbitration years they still have remaining. There are a few players who have both guaranteed contracts and arbitration eligibility remaining, but we’ll deal with those cases in the article when a simple line in the chart doesn’t explain their situation perfectly.
Finally, “Last Year” notes where a player was ranked on this list last year, or if he wasn’t on the 2013 Trade Value series, then he is denoted as unranked. As you can imagine, there’s a lot more turnover at the end of the list than the beginning.
Now, for the upper-middle class of the list.
| Rank | Name | Age | Team | Position | Projected WAR | Controlled Through | Contract Dollars | Last Year |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 20 | Adam Wainwright | 32 | STL | SP | 3.9 | 2018 | $78,000,000 | 23 |
Groove-gate aside, Wainwright is having another fantastic season, and he’s probably going to give Clayton Kershaw a run for his money in the final NL Cy Young tally. Unlike Kershaw, and most other pitchers at this level, Wainwright is downright affordable, having signed a below market deal to stay in St. Louis, so he’ll make just under $20 million per season for the next four years. For one of the best pitchers in baseball, that’s a pretty significant bargain.
But there are some cracks starting to show in the armor. His strikeout rate and groundball rate are both down slightly this year, and he’s generating the lowest infield fly rate of his career. He’s not going to sustain either the .250 BABIP or the 3.3% HR/FB ratio, and given that he’s pushing 33, the end of the contract might not be so great.
But there’s still a tremendous amount of short-term value here. Over the next couple of years, few elite players in the game will be able to match Wainwright’s value.
| Rank | Name | Age | Team | Position | Projected WAR | Controlled Through | Contract Dollars | Last Year |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 19 | Felix Hernandez | 28 | SEA | SP | 5.7 | 2019 | $129,000,000 | 22 |
Minor spoiler: there are only two players on this entire list with a projected WAR higher than Felix’s +5.7, and both of those guys are going to appear in tomorrow’s top 10. In terms of pure on-field value, Hernandez has a case to be 10 spots higher, but we can’t ignore the $130 million elephant in the room. He’s a great pitcher being paid like a great pitcher, and his salary would eliminate a decent amount of teams from the bidding before it even began.
But for a well-financed team looking to acquire a franchise pitcher, it’s hard to do much better than this. He’s as close to a perfect pitcher as there is in the American League, combining sheer dominance with remarkable durability. Even as his fastball has gotten slower, he’s gotten better, leaning more heavily on the best change-up in the game. He’s even solved his early-career command issues, and has now lowered his walk rate for the fourth consecutive year.
The only reason he ranks this low is the contract. $26 million a year is a lot of money, and that kind of price-tag limits the overall value a bit.
| Rank | Name | Age | Team | Position | Projected WAR | Controlled Through | Contract Dollars | Last Year |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 18 | Madison Bumgarner | 24 | SF | SP | 3.3 | 2019 | $52,000,000 | 19 |
I spent too much time trying to figure out the order of these last two, when in reality, a one-spot difference is nothing, and I’m not trying to make any kind of statement by putting Bumgarner ahead of Hernandez. I could easily have flipped them and been just as okay with it. The differences in performance and differences in contractual obligations almost entirely cancel out.
Bumgarner’s more of a good pitcher than a great pitcher, but he’s also just being paid as if he’s an average pitcher. Teams would rather have Hernandez on the mound, but would they pay an extra $15 million per year to have Hernandez instead? The projected win difference here is about +2.5 WAR, so the extra wins that Hernandez adds are priced at about $6 million apiece, or pretty close to the recent market rate for wins. Maybe you can argue that Hernandez’s wins are extra valuable because they don’t require another spot, but then, you could argue that the risk is much higher because you’re tying those extra wins up in a single pitcher’s health.
Whether you prefer great and expensive or good and reasonably priced is probably a matter of taste. Bumgarner probably isn’t quite in the same league as the previous two pitchers or a couple that are still to come, but he’s a heck of a lot cheaper. Every team in baseball could afford Madison Bumgarner, which can’t be said of some of the other players in this tier.
| Rank | Name | Age | Team | Position | Projected WAR | Controlled Through | Contract Dollars | Last Year |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 17 | Josh Donaldson | 28 | OAK | 3B | 4.5 | 2018 | Arb1 – Arb4 | Unranked |
Speaking of difficult players to rank, Donaldson was one of the more challenging players to place on the list. He was one of the game’s elite players last year, combining elite offense with high quality defense to become the year’s biggest breakout star. This year, the offense has taken a step backwards, but it’s almost entirely a BABIP-driven decline, and the defense has remained excellent. The projections for him are still excellent even though they’re suspicious of his future offensive performance, and if you think he’s going to hit better than he has this year, they might even undersell him as a player.
But he’s 28, and a lot of his value is predicated on great defense at third base, which teams traditionally haven’t paid a premium for. He’s also going to be a Super-Two player, meaning that all four of his remaining team control years will come at arbitration prices, making the last year of team control not so valuable if the prices accelerate quickly. So he’s good and cheap now, but projecting how good and how cheap he’ll be over the next few years is difficult, and he has the kind of skillset that teams generally don’t pay full value for.
I could argue that he should be five spots higher or 10 spots lower, but this is where he ended up. In a year, this ranking will probably look dumb either way, as he’ll either have cemented himself as an elite player or distanced himself even further from his 2013 season. But until we know which way he is going, it’s hard for me to move him too far from this tier.
| Rank | Name | Age | Team | Position | Projected WAR | Controlled Through | Contract Dollars | Last Year |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 16 | Yu Darvish | 27 | TEX | SP | 5.1 | 2016 | $20,000,000 | 20 |
This is one of those contracts that can’t be adequately described in the table. Darvish is technically under team control through 2017, but the final year of his deal converts into a player option based on a few scenarios related to his Cy Young placement over the life of the contract. Because he already finished second in the Cy Young voting last year, the final year of the deal goes away if he wins the Cy Young either this year or either of the next two, or finishes in the top four in two of the next three seasons, including this one.
Barring injury, I think he’s a good bet to finish in the top four this year, so realistically, the only way the 2017 season remains under team control is if Darvish finishes outside the top four in Cy Young voting in each of the next two seasons. It’s possible, certainly, but it also means that something went wrong, because Darvish is one of the four best pitchers in the American League.
So, for planning purposes, I’m treating the 2017 season as if it is likely to become a player option, which Darvish will not exercise, because he’s making a fraction of what he’s actually worth. That leaves him with just two remaining years of team control, but both years are ridiculously cheap, and it’s not the worst thing in the world to not have a long-term commitment to a pitcher. The shorter window of team control might push out some rebuilding teams, but for a contender looking for a short-term boost to their rotation, a $10 million Darvish would be tough to beat.
| Rank | Name | Age | Team | Position | Projected WAR | Controlled Through | Contract Dollars | Last Year |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 15 | Giancarlo Stanton | 24 | MIA | OF | 5.0 | 2016 | Arb2 – Arb3 | 8 |
Speaking of two very valuable years of team control, we have the player who has been the focus of more trade speculation over the last few years than just about anyone else. I think every team’s fan base has, at some point, dreamed about what their team could offer up for the Hercules of baseball, and yet, Stanton remains a Marlin. And he remains a Marlin in part because of the potential for an extension.
While he only has two years left before free agency, Stanton is at an age where a long-term deal doesn’t have to become an albatross. The Marlins could give him a 10 year deal this winter and still only have him locked up through age-34, so even with the expected high cost of signing Stanton long-term, there’s value in being able to do it sooner than later. And any team acquiring his rights would then also inherit the value of getting an extension done now, rather than waiting to try and outbid everyone when he’s heading into his age-27 season.
And Stanton has the skillset that every team wants right now. His days of being cheap are coming to an end, but he’s great enough to be valuable even on an expensive deal.
| Rank | Name | Age | Team | Position | Projected WAR | Controlled Through | Contract Dollars | Last Year |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 14 | Jonathan Lucroy | 28 | MIL | C | 3.9 | 2017 | $12,250,000 | Unranked |
The rapid rise of Jonathan Lucroy has been something to watch. He wasn’t a top prospect when he got to the big leagues as a 24 year old in 2010, and then he proceeded to not hit at all. The Brewers saw enough improvement in year two to sign him long-term, but at that point, he was a 25 year old with an 84 wRC+ in the big leagues. He didn’t walk or hit for power, and he struck out at a league average rate, so there didn’t appear to be a lot of reason to be excited about his potential.
And yet, since the start of the 2012 season, he’s hit .301/.360/.482, good for a 129 wRC+. He stopped striking out and added power, which is a nice combination if you can pull it off. Now, Lucroy is one of the best hitting catchers in baseball, and oh yeah, he’s also the poster boy for the value of pitch framing. Like with Yadier Molina, the WAR forecast almost certainly is understating his value, and Lucroy might very well be more of a +5 WAR player, pushing him into legitimately elite territory.
Oh yeah, about that extension he signed: it will pay him $3 million next year, $4 million the year after, and then includes a team option for $5 million in 2017. That’s right; maybe the best catcher in baseball is locked up at three more years for a grand total of $12 million. Not per year. Total.
So why is he even this low? Well, for one, he’s a 28 year old catcher, which is something akin to being a 31 or 32 year old anything else. And even though pitch framing has become the topic du jour in baseball over the last few years, teams still have shown no interest in paying any kind of premium for it in either trades or free agency. For better or worse, catchers are still mostly evaluated based on how they hit and control the running game, so Lucroy’s best skill is unlikely to generate significant extra return in trade. Even without the framing value, though, Lucroy is still a beast, and one of the quietest true stars in baseball.
| Rank | Name | Age | Team | Position | Projected WAR | Controlled Through | Contract Dollars | Last Year |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 13 | Anthony Rendon | 24 | WAS | 2B | 3.5 | 2019 | Pre-Arb – Arb3 | 44 |
When the Nationals announced they were converting Anthony Rendon to second base, the public reaction was less than positive. His history of ankle problems didn’t seem to play well with a move up the defensive spectrum, especially to a position where he’d have to take a bunch of hard slides, and many were skeptical he’d even be adequate at the position, even ignoring perceived health risks.
However, Rendon has managed to not only avoid injury, but become a pretty solid defender at second base in short order. He’s probably still going to play more games at third over the course of his career, but at least in the near term, there’s no real need to move him back to third as he’s currently one of the most valuable second baseman in baseball.
Of course, Rendon’s calling card has always been his bat, and he’s developed into one of the best young hitters in the game. Even as a guy who is still more gap power than a big home run threat, he’s running a 132 wRC+, and there’s room for growth if some of those doubles and triples start clearing the wall with more regularity. Toss in five more years of team control, and Rendon looks like a true franchise cornerstone.
| Rank | Name | Age | Team | Position | Projected WAR | Controlled Through | Contract Dollars | Last Year |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 12 | Anthony Rizzo | 24 | CHC | 1B | 3.3 | 2021 | $64,000,000 | 37 |
I love Andrew Cashner, but I think we can stop asking which side won the Padres-Cubs challenge trade from a few years back. Rizzo might not ever become a superstar — the bar needed for that level as a first baseman is very hard to clear — but he’s solidified his position as one of the game’s better young hitters. He controls the strike zone far better than most players his age, and if he continues to build on the power he’s shown this year, he might end up a +5 WAR player yet.
But with Rizzo, it’s not just the youth and the bat; it’s also the contract. He’s set to make $5 million in each of the next two years, $7 million in each of the two years after that, $11 million in 2019, and then the team has $15 million options for both 2020 and 2021. Rizzo has seven years left on his deal, and even if both options are picked up, the average salary is still less than $10 million per season. The Cubs managed to buy out the prime years of the most expensive thing in baseball at bargain salaries. This deal is basically all upside, providing both short-term and long-term value.
Rizzo might settle in as a good player instead of a great one, but he’s a crazy cheap good player, and will remain cheap for the better part of the next decade.
| Rank | Name | Age | Team | Position | Projected WAR | Controlled Through | Contract Dollars | Last Year |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 11 | Chris Sale | 25 | CHW | SP | 5.0 | 2019 | $53,150,000 | 16 |
Speaking of crazy cheap players in Chicago, Chris Sale is basically Yu Darvish if you extended his deal for an extra three years. Or Felix Hernandez, if the Mariners were also subsidizing 60% of his remaining contract. Sale is right there with the game’s best pitchers, only he’s earning about one-third of what elite pitchers make these days and he has no real chance for a significant raise any time soon.
Or, I’ll put it this way. If a team had a choice between Clayton Kershaw and Chris Sale over the next five years, the money they’d save by choosing Sale would allow them to also afford Adam Wainwright. And that’s why Sale is the most valuable pitcher in baseball right now.
Tomorrow, we’ll wrap this thing up with the top 10. Get ready for a run of truly great position players. As preparation, here is the published list to date.
| Rank | Name | Age | Team | Position | Projected WAR | Controlled Through | Contract Dollars | Last Year |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 50 | Yan Gomes | 26 | CLE | C | 3.4 | 2021 | $40,950,000 | Unranked |
| 49 | Starling Marte | 25 | PIT | OF | 3.0 | 2021 | $52,500,000 | 31 |
| 48 | Kyle Seager | 26 | SEA | 3B | 3.4 | 2017 | Arb1 – Arb3 | Unranked |
| 47 | Alex Cobb | 26 | TB | SP | 3.1 | 2017 | Arb1 – Arb3 | Unranked |
| 46 | Edwin Encarnacion | 31 | TOR | DH | 3.7 | 2016 | $20,000,000 | 45 |
| 45 | Julio Teheran | 23 | ATL | SP | 2.3 | 2020 | $41,600,000 | Unranked |
| 44 | Chris Archer | 25 | TB | SP | 2.4 | 2021 | $42,250,000 | Unranked |
| 43 | Devin Mesoraco | 26 | CIN | C | 3.0 | 2017 | Arb1 – Arb3 | Unranked |
| 42 | Corey Kluber | 28 | CLE | SP | 3.8 | 2018 | Pre-Arb – Arb3 | Unranked |
| 41 | Michael Brantley | 27 | CLE | OF | 2.6 | 2018 | $30,000,000 | Unranked |
| 40 | David Wright | 31 | NYM | 3B | 4.1 | 2020 | $107,000,000 | 21 |
| 39 | Dustin Pedroia | 30 | BOS | 2B | 4.2 | 2021 | $107,500,000 | 25 |
| 38 | Byron Buxton | 20 | MIN | OF | 1.2 | TBD | Pre-Arb – Arb3 | Unranked |
| 37 | Jose Quintana | 25 | CHW | SP | 3.3 | 2020 | $40,650,000 | Unranked |
| 36 | Billy Hamilton | 23 | CIN | OF | 2.7 | 2019 | Pre-Arb – Arb3 | Unranked |
| 35 | Matt Carpenter | 28 | STL | 3B | 3.9 | 2020 | $66,000,000 | Unranked |
| 34 | Jose Fernandez | 21 | MIA | SP | 4.8 | 2018 | Pre-Arb – Arb3 | 17 |
| 33 | Carlos Gomez | 28 | MIL | OF | 4.8 | 2016 | $17,000,000 | 33 |
| 32 | Yordano Ventura | 23 | KC | SP | 2.8 | 2019 | Pre-Arb – Arb3 | Unranked |
| 31 | Sonny Gray | 24 | OAK | SP | 3.0 | 2019 | Pre-Arb – Arb3 | Unranked |
| 30 | Gregory Polanco | 22 | PIT | OF | 1.5 | 2020 | Pre-Arb – Arb3 | Unranked |
| 29 | Kris Bryant | 22 | CHC | 3B | 2.8 | TBD | Pre-Arb – Arb3 | Unranked |
| 28 | Andrelton Simmons | 24 | ATL | SS | 3.8 | 2020 | $56,000,000 | Unranked |
| 27 | Jose Bautista | 33 | TOR | OF | 4.8 | 2016 | $28,000,000 | 35 |
| 26 | Stephen Strasburg | 25 | WAS | SP | 4.4 | 2016 | Arb2 – Arb3 | 14 |
| 25 | Matt Harvey | 25 | NYM | SP | 3.8 | 2018 | Pre-Arb – Arb3 | 7 |
| 24 | Freddie Freeman | 24 | ATL | 1B | 3.7 | 2021 | $123,500,000 | Unranked |
| 23 | Xander Bogaerts | 21 | BOS | SS | 2.0 | 2019 | Pre-Arb – Arb3 | 29 |
| 22 | Yadier Molina | 31 | STL | C | 4.5 | 2017 | $43,000,000 | 11 |
| 21 | Buster Posey | 27 | SF | C | 4.9 | 2022 | $165,500,000 | 6 |
| 20 | Adam Wainwright | 32 | STL | SP | 3.9 | 2018 | $78,000,000 | 23 |
| 19 | Felix Hernandez | 28 | SEA | SP | 5.7 | 2019 | $129,000,000 | 22 |
| 18 | Madison Bumgarner | 24 | SF | SP | 3.3 | 2019 | $52,000,000 | 19 |
| 17 | Josh Donaldson | 28 | OAK | 3B | 4.5 | 2018 | Arb1 – Arb4 | Unranked |
| 16 | Yu Darvish | 27 | TEX | SP | 5.1 | 2016 | $20,000,000 | 20 |
| 15 | Giancarlo Stanton | 24 | MIA | OF | 5.0 | 2016 | Arb2 – Arb3 | 8 |
| 14 | Jonathan Lucroy | 28 | MIL | C | 3.9 | 2017 | $12,250,000 | Unranked |
| 13 | Anthony Rendon | 24 | WAS | 2B | 3.5 | 2019 | Pre-Arb – Arb3 | 44 |
| 12 | Anthony Rizzo | 24 | CHC | 1B | 3.3 | 2021 | $64,000,000 | 37 |
| 11 | Chris Sale | 25 | CHW | SP | 5.0 | 2019 | $53,150,000 | 16 |
Dave is the Managing Editor of FanGraphs.
I’d argue that Rendon should be in the top 10. He’s got a great contract and is an above average 2b/3b. Not to mention the room for growth to take place and he might become the best 2b.
He’s 13. You’re going to quibble about three spots?
also, maybe wait until the top 10 is released?
My vote for player on this list who deserves to be in the top 10 is Lucroy. To have possibly the best catcher in baseball for so little money is felony theft.
Once again, Anthony Rizzo beats out Anthony Rendon
Control for a fixed cost through age 31 will do that.
(Rendon’s also going to be underpaid… we just don’t know exactly HOW underpaid yet.)
How much do you think Stanton will be paid for the next two years? Something like $12 MM & $20 MM?
I almost thought Dave was going to break his promise and put Sale in the top 10.
So, the top ten have to be (in no particular order):
Trout
Tulowitzki
McCutchen
Machado
Abreu
Harper
Puig
Perez
Goldschmidt
Longoria
Who’s Perez?
Salvador
Salvador Perez
Nope. Neifi Perez.
Definitely Neifi.
Manny Machado has an 87 wRC+ over the last calendar year.
Manny Machado also tried, and failed, to hit another player with a baseball bat.
Well it’s not like SUCCESSFULLY hitting him would have raised his wRC+ at all.
I would be very surprised if he fell off the list completely and Dave didn’t comment on it in the intro.
I guess the ranking depends on how much you believe that Manny Machado can resume hitting *anything* with a baseball bat.
His career wRC+ is 102 and he plays elite D at third. He just turned 22. He’ll be on the list.
Of course he’ll be on the list. Just saying his placement makes a pretty strong statement regarding how much teams value defense and perceived upside.
Oh. Sorry. I misunderstood your point.
Really figured that Anibal Sanchez had a strong shot to make the list
That looks like a pretty close approximation of the order, actually.
Bob Abreu still swings a mighty stick!
I like Sal Perez a lot. I’d rather have George Springer though.
Trout, Harper, Longoria, McCutchen, Goldschmidt, Cargo, Kershaw, Tulo, Cabrera in some order … but that’s nine. Puig seems like a likely one also. And that would mean Machado went from #4 to also-ran and #18 Chris Davis also fell out (unsuprisingly)
Never mind, no Cabrera or KErshaw on contracts. So Machado’s in there as well as Jose Abreu I guess.
No pitchers in the top 10 so Kershaw is out and Machado is in.
Not a chance that Salvador Perez doesn’t make the list. He was 39th last year and guaranteed that he didn’t fall off.
And even if he isn’t superstar WAR level, that contract is INSANE. He’s being played like a 1 WAR or less player and with team options until 2019!
In the intro Dave mentioned specifically why Kershaw wouldn’t be appearing on the list at all. The crazy contract, which even I as a HUGE Kershaw fan didn’t know, that allows him to become a free agent at the end of the season he is traded. That’s a horrible plan for anyone hoping to get him but a great way for Kershaw to guarantee he only goes where he pleases.
JD was hitting at the exact same elite level until recently, but he has been having back issues from those dives on the tarps, so I would argue that since injury can be directly related to the only poor performance he has had offensively since Aug 2012 when he came back up, that he is what he was all last year, and will be back to that as soon as he is healthy.
JD Martinez? He’s tearing it up, bro.
Josh Donaldson the dude on todays list, smart guy. snark intended.
Jermaine Dye
Johnny Damon!
Definitely not Jermaine Dye.
JD Drew
So the top 10 are:
Trout
Harper
McCuth
Machado
Longoria
Puig
Abreu
Tulo
Goldschmidt and …
Salvador perez?
Perez has gotta be on there. Not even because he is super elite, but that contract is a steal among steals: Locked up to, essentially, 2019 with his highest contract year being 6M? Crazy! He’s a 2-4 WAR guy being paid like a sub-1 to 1 WAR guy and he could even improve. (Projection systems like him at 4.7 WAR)
Sal Perez ought to be suing his agent.
If his contract even gives him enough money to hire a good enough lawyer.
His agent didn’t want him to sign that contract.
It would be strange if Starlin Castro didn’t make the list. So I guess he has to be in the to ten, right?
Dave said in the chat yesterday that Castro did not make the list.
Wow. Thanks for the heads up.
I’m very surprised that he didn’t AT LEAST make the honorable mentions. He’s a 3+ WAR SS making $48M from 2014 – 2019. He hasn’t entered his prime, he plays a premium position, and he seems to be playing it well with a team-friendly contract.
yeah, I have a hard time believing that some of the guys Dave put in the 40-50 range have more trade value than a three win 24 year old shortstop that is signed for five years $43 million and has a very strong pedigree.
I think putting someone like Brantley ahead of Castro shows a bit of recency bias. However, I suppose you could make the argument that MLB teams would show the same bias, but even with that, MLB teams love former top prospects, and Castro is still three years younger.
Does everyone remember how God awful Castro was last year. A lot of talk this offseason was about how it was a mistake for the Cubs to give him that contract. He hit.245/.284/.347 with horrendous defense posting a sparkling 0.0 WAR. Yes, he’s rebounded this year but you can’t just ignore last year.
You don’t ignore last year, but you also can’t ignore the fact that the three years before that he played like a three win player and this year he’s on his way to being a three win player again.
There was no hiding the fact that Castro (and Rizzo) and Sveum did not get along, and also there was much made of them trying to change Castro’s hitting approach last year, so I think there is enough evidence to say that last year was probably an outlier.
Also, you have to keep in mind just how young Castro is. He’s only a few months older than Rendon, and yet he’s in his fifth season. There is still a lot of room for growth.
It’s one thing to say that he’s a “3+ WAR SS”, but ZiPS/Steamer see him closer to league-average, maybe in the 2-2.5 WAR category. An average to slightly-above-average SS for $8-9M/year over the next 5-6 years is certainly a good value, but closer to Altuve and Kipnis (both of whom “just missed” the list) than Rendon.
He has had two seasons of 3 WAR or better, and he’s well on his way to having a third. When you combine that with how young he is, I think that calling him a 3+ WAR shortstop is acceptable. He still has plenty of room to grow – his power is starting to show up a little bit, for instance.
I’m just surprised that he wasn’t at least an honorable mention, that’s all. I think that teams would be more interested in Castro than someone like Brantley considering his contract and the position that he plays.
I think just as we differ greatly on Castro’s trade value I also think MLB execs would differ as well. I think some teams would value him much more than others. The interesting thing is unlike most of these other players there is actually a possibility that he gets moved this offseason. As the article a couple days ago mentioned there isn’t a definite need to trade him there is still a possibility and it would be very interesting to see what the Cubs got in return if in fact he was traded.
Dave said no in his chat yesterday.
Strange? I actually like Castro and personally feel that he will develop into a perennial all star, but he DOES have -14 career offensive runs below average. The contract is only a steal if he actually starts to, you know, hit the ball occasionally.
Largely because of, you know, one horrendous year. Otherwise, good point.
Where’s Cody Ross?
Some jokes never get old. Unfortunately, that isn’t one of those jokes.
I think you mean DAVID Ross.
I think he means Ross from Friends.
I’ll just put a happy little cloud right over there, using some of my titanium white.
The best catcher in baseball for very cheap is only #14? I feel like the best player at any position should potentially be in the top 10, then when you consider that he is paid 12 million for 3 years??!??!? How is that not top 5 trade value?
It depends on how we define trade value. In terms of what Lucroy would bring back, he would probably not bring back returns as if he was the best catcher.
But isn’t this the entire purpose of this? It’s not to make a statement about how valuable someone like Lucroy is and how highly he should be valued, but what he would conceivably bring back if put on the block tomorrow. At least this is what the intro says.
I’m having a hard time imagining a real life outcome where Lucroy brought back a package that was on the same tier as Stanton.
Probably because he is the best catcher in baseball over half a season.
Actually the best catcher over the last 365. 3rd best catcher over last 3 years if you want larger sample size. I think he could fetch a larger package than Stanton, or at least similar.
Which I guess means his ranking makes sense… I don’t know, I feel $12 million and 3 years of Lucroy would fetch a huge package but since he is such a steal, the Brewers would never consider trading him so we would never hear of trade possibilities involving him.
I can’t imagine a scenario where someone would give up more for Lucroy than Stanton. Pitch Framing has come a long way, but it’s still up in the air at this point and it’s clearly not valued across baseball the way that Stanton’s attributes are. If Lucroy hit like Piazza or threw like Molina he’d be looked upon differently, but I still think he’s vastly underrated compared to his performance.
When you look at the players above him, you have to ask yourself. Would you make this trade, straight up, with contract value included. I think he’s pretty much right where he should be and a case could be made that he might be a tad high. Some of the guys coming up are INSANELY valuable. That Cutch contract is a joke. They are basically paying him $1 million per WAR.
Look at what the Yankees paid for McCann, or what they wouldn’t pay for Russell Martin.
Catchers just aren’t properly valued. They only play 3/4ths of a season, occasional Pudge style freaks aside, maybe teams can’t or won’t look beyond that simple fact.
yeah i hear ya zak. dave totally should have explained why lucroy was that low on the list. maybe even start a new paragraph about the topic with something like ‘why is he this low?’, you know, just so we could find it easier. idk what’s wrong with him.
I would imagine that there is still some reluctance to believe he is as good as he is. Had he been a hyped prospect and had huge success in the minors and then had this level of success, I think he value would be higher. Still, #14 is pretty damn good.
I find the exclusion of two young-ish incredible defensive outfielders interesting.
Commentariat, why do you think Alex Gordon and Jason Heyward miss the top 50? Team control value?
Gordon is one of the better players in the league, but a lot of his value is in defense, which is underrated. This is especially true for corner OFer defense. In addition, Gordon is a free agent fairly soon, so he is only a short term investment, and he lacks a lot of the eye catching stats that help get back value like HR and Steals.
Gordon is only under contract through 2015, with a player option for 2016. A team who acquired him would effectively be paying $18M for 1.3 seasons of ~ 6.5 WAR. That’s about $25M of excess value in the short-term, but as Dave said, a 1+ year rental won’t bring back the package that most of the guys on this list will, especially when so much of his value is wrapped up in his defense. Not to mention the $12.5M player option adds risk, as the team would be on the hook if Gordon suffers a significant injury near the end of 2015.
Curious if kershaw will make the list. Best pitcher paid like one.
David said in the intro he won’t be because his contract is essentially untradeable
Well I don’t think Dave said he was untradable. The point was that Kershaw has a clause in his contract that allows him to opt out at the end of the year if he was traded. And in fact I think plenty of teams would line up to take every cent of Kershaw’s deal AND send plenty back in retun if this clause didn’t exist.
You didn’t read the articles, clearly.
Dave said in the intro that Kershaw isn’t on the list, because he can opt out of his contract if he’s traded, and this whole exercise is about trade value.
I say #1 is Goldy. It would be amazing if that is the case cause it is a Towers Signing. Whether he deserves it or not, he is considered one of the worst GMs in the game. If Goldy had waited 6 months, he probably would have doubled his money. I believe he signed spring training 2013.
Did you forget Mike Trout exists?
Goldschmidt’s contract is insanely undervalued, really really far below what he’s worth. So the D-backs have a nice source of built in surplus value that would make him almost untradeable.
But still, not even close to Trout’s excess value. If you put Trout together as a combo with Pujols and Hamilton, that combo would make the top 50 trade value list. Can’t wait to see what Dave has to say about that tomorrow.
No it wouldn’t.
Actually, it might.
Trout’s under contract for 6+ seasons. His contract ends at age 28, so he won’t decline much. If you assume 8.5 WAR/year over the life of the contract, and $7M/WAR with no inflation, plus the remainder of this year at almost nothing, you have an excess value of about $240M.
In Dave’s Fox article, he estimated Pujols at about $100M dead money. If Hamilton can manage to be a league-average player for the next 3 years, he’s about $40M in dead money, leaving the Trout/Pujols/Hamilton trio at about $100M of excess value.
For comparison, Yu Darvish looks to produce ~12WAR for $20M, for around $65M of value, and he was ranked in the top-20.
Sure, the massive price tag would deter the vast majority of teams, but Trout’s excess value is so great that it can more than make up for the dead money in Pujols’ and Hamiltons’ contracts.
I just assumed we can exclude him from this list since it’s unfair and anticlimactic . Though I need to look at Cutch’s contract closely but Goldy+Cutch might be very close to Trout.
I think your right and I think this helps put it into perspective just how unbelievably good Trout is.
Mike Trout, Goldschimdt is good but Mike Trout is paid like one of the best players but still vastly underpaid in terms of production. I see no way Mike Trout wouldn’t be the top trade value as long as he keeps putting up these 10 WAR seasons.
Considering one Trout signed his contract, Dave made a post titled Mike Trout, King of Trade Value, Now and Forever.
Agreed. Dave is kind of stuck with that one.
Or Andrew McCutchen and his $1 million/1 WAR contract.
Yeah that’s a good one. Now look at McCutchen’s.
I liked Lucroy in the minors. Showed a decent eye, and at various times showed pop and good walk rates, particularly 15.4% bb rate and lower k rate in AA in 2009 when he turned 23 that June. Word was he could stick at catcher, you had the typical catcher learning/hitting curve to suggest you might even get more.
He’s turned into about the best case scenario his minor league numbers augered, and toss in the framing, you have a great success story.
Sickels gave him agrade B a few years running, number 4 on Brewers list 2010. Projectprospect ranked him 71 that year. A high floor prospect who turns out to have a pretty high ceiling too.
My guess for the top 10:
1. Trout
2. Mccutchen
3. Harper
4. Goldschmidt
5. Puig
6. Perez
7. Tulowitzki
8. machado
9. Abreu
10. Longoria
I wouldn’t rank Harper above Goldschmidt. Harper needs to prove he can stay healthy and consistent before being ranked ahead of Goldy. Next to Trout and McCutchen nobody has been as consistently good as Goldschmidt since the second half of 2012. Throw in his ridiculous contract and there’s no way you could rank Harper in front of him. I’ll probably be proven wrong tomorrow because Dave has always been infatuated with Harper but I would never rank him ahead of Goldy.
The reasons I ranked Harper ahead of Goldschmidt was that he is still 5 years younger, Harper’s pedigree compared to Goldy’s and that Dave loves Harper. Goldy’s contract is ridiculous, and it pretty certain that he will be worth more surplus value over the next 4 years than Harpers, but I don’t think that makes up for the age difference.
You’re probably right. It’s individual preference. I think Goldy’s floor is much higher than Harper’s floor so I would prefer Goldy but I acknowledge Harper’s ceiling is a little higher.
That’s a good ranking. To me, your #3-#5 rankings could end up in any order. I think Perez could be as low as #10, but other than that I think your guesses are as good as any.
Thanks. Yeah, Perez easily could be lower, but he is owed only ~$19 million the next 5 seasons and could easily produce 20 WAR or so.
I think McCutchen could be number one. I know that’s almost sacrilege to say someone other than Trout, but Trout’s owed, what, 144.5 million through 2020 and Cutch is only owed 51.5 through 2018. What’s more, Cutch’s last year is a club option, so that lessens the prospect of his aging.
I guess you could argue that two more years of Trout is worth 45 million per, but I wouldn’t make that argument.
If anyone dethrones Trout it is only possible for McCutchen. I still think Trout has more trade value, as far as I can take away from this list, but I have been wrong before.
I just realized that my math is bad on the last sentence. It wouldn’t be 45 per, because Trout and Cutch won’t be even through 2018. Still think it’s pretty close between the two.
But the difference is not just 2 years of Trout for $45M per. It’s 2 years of Trout at $44M per plus the difference between Trout and Cutch for 3 1/2 years in the meantime. The difference between Trout and Cutch through 2018 stands to be significant.
Beat you to my mistake by 7 minutes.
Ok..I no longer think Cutch could be number one. Just think it’s closer than others think. Trout’s been getting about 2 more WAR per year than Cutch. Provided they stay about the same over the next 4 years (and I realize that may be a stretch for someone Cutch’s age), that gives you 8 more WAR through 2018 or about 52 million. Subtracting that from Trout’s contract puts him at about 92 million meaning that you’re basically paying 40 million for the 2 extra years of him. 20 million per is an amazing value.
Think I did that right.
Trout would still provide more value even if the two of them were 7-win players for the duration of their contracts. With McCutchen possibly starting to decline the last year or two of his contract, he’s probably closer to 6 WAR/season and $135M in excess value. That’s a lot more than the guys we’ve seen on the list so far, but still a far cry from Trout, who would provide around $200M of excess value even if he averages “just” 7.5 WAR/season through his contract.
“What’s more, Cutch’s last year is a club option, so that lessens the prospect of his aging.”
If his contract truly ‘lessens the prospect of his aging’ then it is indeed the most valuable contract in baseball, bar none, case closed.
I would say over the length of the whole contract it is. The surplus value on his deal would be around $200-250 million. For Mccutchen it would be around $150, maybe a little more (assuming neither gets hurt). I think one could argue that Trout’s deal actually improves his trade value from last year because it is such a good contract and he was expected to get so much more.
I think you may be right about Trout’s trade value going up. His salaries from 2015-17 look a lot like what he could expect from arbitration, and then from 2018-20 he’s getting $33M a year. If Bryce Harper is physically intact in 2018, no way Boras lets him sign for a paltry $33m/yr or just 3 years (think 8 years at $40-45m each).
So you’re getting Trout’s age 23-28 seasons for about as much per year as Sabbathia or Teixeira are getting. That’s just crazy value.
The Donaldson ranking–which is well below where he would be ranked based solely on projections and contract–is a great example of how easy it is to ignore generally applicable principles when faced with specific examples.
In <a href="http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/you-should-trust-the-projections/" title="You Should Trust the Projections", Dave wrote: "The evidence suggests the conservative path, leaning almost entirely on forecasts and putting little weight on seasonal performance, is the one that is wrong the least." This is especially true for high-variance players like Donaldson, where it's hard for your lying eyes to just trust the projections.
But the Donaldson ranking reflects pessimism in his 2014 offensive performance (more accurately, just the past couple months) outweighing his in-season projection that already accounts for that performance. If this article had been written in May–when Donaldson was leading the AL in fWAR–he likely would have been ranked much higher, despite barely having a better projection then than now.
The two players ranked directly ahead of Donaldson, for example, project to be half a win better than him per season. They're both under team control for 2 more years, while Donaldson is under team control for 4 more years. Does that extra half win really outweigh the two extra cost-controlled years of team control?
How do you get from the Donaldson blurb that it reflects “pessimism in his 2014 offensive performance … outweighing his in-season projection”? Dave notes that the projections themselves are pessimistic about his future offensive performance (maybe too much so). More importantly, it’s the fact that his value is mostly tied up in defense that holds his (perceived) value down.
If this were Dave’s personal opinion, then yeah, Donaldson would probably be higher than those guys. However, this is supposed to reflect the industry consensus, and I think it makes sense that teams would pay a little more for Darvish and Stanton.
Anyone else surprised by no Tanaka anywhere on the list?
He hasn’t been in the MLB long and he just got injured. I think he should probably be ranked, but I don’t think he would go quite this high, since his contract is decently heavy.
Yea not this high, but no mention at all, even if just outside the top 50
He’s not more valuable than Garrett Richards, Alex Cobb, or Chris Archer?
Garrett Richards projected to be worth 0.8 WAR for the rest of the season and will get a huge tic up from his current year’s ERA.
I’ve been in your situation and believed that the ERA/FIP was correctly predicting a breakout but you need more than 20 starts to start to believe that a SP is going to keep performing at that level.
He makes $20 million a year and you want to rank him after 3 months of great pitching and a serious arm injury? Ruben Amaro would be proud!
Tanaka would have little value right now, because of the opt out and the injury. Only the Yankees know exactly what’s going on with the arm. If he requires TJ surgery – likely – you have one of two scenarios, neither good. Either
(a) he returns to form, you have to pay him for 3 1/2 more years even though he’ll only pitch for two, after which he opts out; or
(b)he doesn’t make it back to be an effective pitcher, or has to ditch his killer splitter and becomes less effective, and he’s looked in for seven years at premium prices.
Either one is trouble.
2014 Stats …
Player A – 2.69 FIP / 123 IP / 9.27 K9 / 3.14 B9
Tanaka – 3.07 FIP / 129 IP / 9.39 K9 / 1.32 B9
Tanaka is turning 26 in a few months. He’s under contract for $22M/year with a full no-trade clause. Player A (Garrett Richards)just turned 26, has 3.5 years left of team control at arbitration prices.
If I had a choice today between taking on Tanaka’s contract or getting Richards it would be Richards in a landslide … especially with Tanaka’s injury.
Dude… you’re talking about 3 months of pitching…
Player A – 120 wRC+ / .342 wOBA / 2.2 WAR / Age 27 / .5 Million
Player B – 85 wRC+ / .294 wOBA / -.5 WAR / Age 21 / .9 Million
Player C – 97 wRC+ / .315 wOBA / .5 WAR / Age 27 / 10 Million
One of these players is Josh Harrison.
Player A! Go Bucs!
B is Bryce Harper and C is Jay Bruce, in case someone else was curious.
Also, I second the “Go Bucs” sentiment.
Trade value is about the future, not the past. Do you seriously expect Harper to finish the year at -1.0 WAR and then go on to have a -1.5 WAR 2015?
That contract is SUPER bad. All risk for little upside because of the opt-out.
Not even a little bit. Not only does he have the injury looming over him, but he has an opt-out clause. He is a great pitcher, but there is not enough excess value in his contract to make the list.
Kind of interesting how little having players on this list correlates to team performance. Several of the best teams in baseball – Oakland, St L, Det – have one or two players on the list, and nobody in the top ten. A lot the top 10 values play on last place or nearly last place teams. Amazing that Oak can be the best team in the league on a tight budget, and have only two really good value players.
Sort of goes to show that to win there needs to be value all across the roster, rather than in just a handful of players.
I don’t think it is that Oakland has only two really good value players; it is that they only have 2 players with very good trade value. On the contrary, one could argue that almost all of their roster is a good value (outside of callaspo, Jim Johnson and few others).
Cardinals have 3 (Carpenter, Wainwright and Molina) and would have had 4 if Wacha’s injury were to virtually anything other than his shoulder.
If you can’t afford to take the risk of signing players to longterm contracts (even your own), you’ll have a harder time accumulating many of these “best values in the game”
Pre-arb players can get on the list as well, of course.
I couldn’t believe how quick everyone was to jump on the Chris Davis is go(o)d bandwagon last year.
I mean, he did post a 168 wRC+ with a .415 wOBA and slugged well over .600. I don’t know what any of that means, but it looks pretty good.
I personally think Dave should change this from the “Trade Value Series” to the “Contract Value Series”. There are just too many examples where Dave’s opinions, which I mostly agree with, are in conflict with industry views. I believe Dave is right in that no pitcher should be in the top ten because of how often they break. But look at the hauls brought in by the trades of good-but-not-great pitchers like Samardzija, Gio Gonzalez and Mat Latos. The industry clearly values top end pitching differently. Imagine what kind of package Wainwright would bring back.
Jonathan Lucroy is, to me at least, the perfect example of guy whose actual value and perceived value are separated by a huge gulf. In terms contract value relative to on field performance or simply, bang for the buck, Lucroy’s placement on the list is easy to argue favorably. But seriously, is there a shot in hell that Washington would trade Strasburg straight up for him no matter how you parse the words “trade value”? Whether you take the approach of “The #2 guy should be someone that his team could trade straight up for any player in the league except for the #1 guy” or “MLB did a fantasy draft where every player and their existing contracts became available, who would be the top 50 guys taken?” I’m just not buying that Lucroy is going in the top 50, much less the top 15 regardless of merit.
You’re applying the Bill Simmons argument evaluating the rankings of Lucroy and Strasburg. Maybe Dave’s trying to avoid incurring more of the Sports Guy’s wrath by not going down that path.
Actually, no I’m not. What I’m saying is that no matter how you interpret the meaning of “trade value”, Lucroy in the top 15 doesn’t pass the smell test. Think of it like the interpretation of the “V” in MVP. To use an extreme example, whether you believe the award belongs to the best player in the league or the best player on a playoff team or the best non-pitcher because pitchers don’t play in enough games or the best hitter defense and base running be demand or whatever, no matter where you stand when it comes to the meaning MVP, Dan Uggla isn’t the MVP. That’s my argument.
I should have caveated that I agree that your point is valid. It was more of a tongue-in-cheek “I don’t know” as to why Dave might be ignoring the extra value pitchers get.
Which might come down to a premium for scarcity, like BenRevereDoesSteroids notes below.
My bad for my reply coming off strong. I definitely knew that it was tongue-in-cheek based on the Dave not incurring Bill’s wrath part. I just wanted to make sure that I was clear in that I wasn’t applying the “Bill Simmons argument” so much as I was applying the “any way you look at it” argument.
No problem jpg. My bad for not making the point about your initial comment before jumping into the tongue-in-cheek part. It would have been better and tongue-in-cheekier.
I bet if you broke it down, you may even find that starting pitchers get even MORE of a haul than position players. I just think back to Ubaldo to Cleveland, Garza to Texas, Shield to KC, and of course the recent Athletics/Cubs trade.
Dave is surely correct that trading for a starting pitcher is risky because of injuries. But injury risk isn’t the only thing that teams take into consideration when it comes to trades. Maybe its scarcity that drives up the trade value of starting pitchers? Or maybe the industry thinks that pitchers mean more to winning than position players in a vacuum? Maybe they think that a replacement level Shortstop is less valuable than a replacement level starting pitcher.
If I remember the definition of selection bias correctly, that might be the reason why you see the big trade hauls for pitchers. In this case, great and valuable pitchers often get traded. Great and valuable hitters rarely get traded.
Yeah but even if that’s true, I haven’t seen in then why haven’t great and valuable hitters that have been traded recently brought back demonstrably larger hauls? When Justin Upton was dealt he was viewed by most as guy who was already an All-Star with a superstar ceiling. What Arizona got back was Prado, an All-Star caliber player, but one who had already reached his much lower ceiling and a good-but-not-great pitching prospect in Delgado. Hanley Ramirez, albeit when his value was depressed, was traded for Nate Eovaldi who wasn’t viewed as a huge prospect. Matt Holiday got traded twice and neither time was the haul considered out of this world at the time, regardless if CarGo wound up being one of the principle players moved.
You don’t think the super cheap catcher with strong defense and a top 20 wRC+ would be one of the first 50 players taken?
Maybe, but if he is, he’s a hell of lot closer to #50 than he is to #15. Would the Braves trade Kimbrel for Lucroy straight up? Or what about the Reds with Chapman? Either team absolutely should but would it really shock you if if both said no? And these are two are closers, guys that weren’t even sniffing Dave’s list. Like I said, his bang-for-the-buck value is a lot higher than his trade value.
Hey, it’s 2009 calling, they want to know if they should sign Joe Mauer. Why don’t you get your arguments ready.
I understand your point, but I also think of position scarcity. Other than the Giants, Cardinals, and Royals, every team would want Lucroy as their catcher. If the Brewers released a bidding war for Luc, do you think Strasburg would be the best offer they would get? I really don’t think so.
Go take a look at the leader board for catchers this year. The position isn’t looking all that scarce right now. I mean Posey isn’t even having a bad year, but he barely cracks the top 10 in catcher WAR.
Lucroy is significantly better than all the catchers in the top 10 (and that doesn’t include his pitch framing value, though teams don’t really consider that so I guess it shouldn’t be considered). I’ll admit the top 10 catchers are all pretty good though, but I think that is no different than the SS position. I think an elite catcher would fetch the same level of interests as an elite SS. If you compare to the other “up-the-middle position” of CF, good catchers are a lot more scarce.
Looking at C-SS-CF, only Trout, McCutchen, and Tulo would fetch more than Lucroy IMO. And overall, I would only add Harper, Longoria, Sale, Puig, Goldsmidt, and Machado to the above Lucroy is trade value list.
Admittedly, I may be putting too much of a premium on catchers. But if Freddie Freeman was available with a contract of only $12 million, he would fetch a ton of offers. Lucroy is Freddie Freeman but plays catcher.
Trout for Lucroy straight up. Who says no?
Ummm….
I’m guessing Gattis is in the Top 10.
Gerrit Cole’s injuries this year kept him off but he could have MadBaum numbers for much less than MadBaum money
Hamels should have been on this list.. at 20 million per at 30 years of age he is good for another 5 years at 4.0+ war thats only 5 million each and a bargain.
He’s making 22.5 million a year, he’s projected for less than 4 wins this year, which, being as he’s 30, means he’s likely projected for 3 wins a year or less for the life of the contract, for a rate of 7.5 million per win or worse. He’s not young, he’s not cheap, and he’s not a star. Not a recipe for this list.
I agree that Cole Hamels is not cheep nor young, but he is a star. I’d love to see him play for my favorite team (excepting the fact that he’s “old school” and I lose a lot of respect for him for that).
Ruben Amaro Jr, I see you.
This is shocking that KEvin Kiermaier will be top 10. I knew he was good, but didn’t know he was this good. I might make the arguement that he’s going to be too high. I might be willing to trade Kiermaier for Giancarlo, but it would depend on what other prospects the Marlins threw in.
This is new and exciting.
Where’s Arenado?
Trout
McCutchen
Harper
Tulowitzki
Goldschmidt
Puig
Abreu
Machado
Longoria
Arenado
Where’s Arenado?
Trout
McCutchen
Harper
Tulowitzki
Goldschmidt
Puig
Abreu
Machado
Longoria
Arenado