2016 Broadcaster Rankings (TV): #30 – #21
Roughly four years ago now, the present author facilitated a crowdsourcing project designed to place a “grade” on each of the league’s television and radio broadcast teams. The results weren’t intended to represent the objective quality or skill of the relevant announcers, but rather to provide a clue as to which broadcast teams are likely to appeal most (or least) to the readers of this site.
The results of that original exercise have been useful as a complement to the dumb NERD scores published by the author in these pages. Four years later, however, they’ve become much less useful. In the meantime, a number of the broadcast teams cited in that original effort have changed personnel. It’s possible that the tastes of this site’s readers have changed, also.
About a month ago, the present author began the process of reproducing that original crowdsourcing effort, facilitating a ballots for this site’s readers. This post represents the second installment of the corresponding results.
Below are the 30th- through 21st-ranked television broadcast teams, per the FanGraphs readership.
But first, three notes:
- Teams are ranked in ascending order of Overall rating. Overall ratings are not merely averages of Charisma and Analysis.
- The author has attempted to choose reader comments that are either (a) illustrative of the team’s place in the rankings or (b) conspicuously amusing.
- A complete table of ratings cast will appear in these pages Friday.
30. Philadelphia Phillies
Main Broadcasters: Tom McCarthy and Ben Davis/Matt Stairs.
Ratings (Charisma/Analysis/Overall): 2.3, 2.2, 2.2
Three Reader Comments
• “McCarthy routinely sounds more excited hawking WB Mason products than when the Phillies do something. Of course, the last couple of seasons, the Phillies are roughly as exciting as office supplies.”
• “Weekends with Schmidt are solid.”
• “RIP Harry Kalas.”
Notes
It might be difficult for those who’ve watched Phillies broadcasts in recent years to separate the quality of the club from the appeal of the broadcasters. Certainly, it must be difficult for the broadcasters themselves to muster enthusiasm for a poor team. In any case, if there’s a uniform criticism here, it regards McCarthy and the sort of “professional distance” he maintains, if that makes sense.
29. Atlanta Baseball Club
Main Broadcasters: Chip Caray and Joe Simpson
Ratings (Charisma/Analysis/Overall): 2.4, 2.1, 2.3
Three Reader Comments
• “In recent years I have noticed that Chip will at least investigate and discuss more advanced metrics, but Joe shows open derision and scorn. I’m not looking for a statistically heavy broadcast, but at the very least, the announcers could acknowledge the current state of baseball front offices.”
• “A couple of years ago… WAR was mentioned in a broadcast. Simpson dismissively said something along the lines of ‘that stat comes from FanGraphs, whatever that is.'”
• “I miss Boog.”
Notes
The results of this exercise reveal that FanGraphs readers can be entirely content with a broadcast that largely ignores advanced metrics. The nearly universal praise for Vin Scully reveals as much. What they don’t care for — and, it would seem, reasonably so — is broadcasters who openly mock advanced metrics or progressive front-office/on-field strategies, in general. The Atlanta team appears guilty of that; Simpson, in particular.
28. Cincinnati Reds
Main Broadcasters: Thom Brennaman and Chris Welsh
Ratings (Charisma/Analysis/Overall): 2.4, 2.4, 2.3
Three Reader Comments
• “Chris Welsh is a damn near perfect blend of an old school ballplayer who is totally open minded and into learning new things.”
• “The Brennamans work in vitriol and acid the way some artists specialize in oils or acrylics.”
• “Thom Brennaman… displayed peak form last year during the Reds’ umpteenth rain delay with a rant about how the time has come for MLB to seriously consider mandating 30 domed stadiums.”
Notes
Whether founded or not, respondents for the Atlanta broadcast (above) suspected that Chip Caray might not hold his current job were he not the son (and grandson) of an established major-league broadcaster. Readers expressed similar suspicions regarding Thom Brennaman, whose father Marty is the Reds’ radio voice. It should be noted: a number of readers praise Welsh for his capacity to marry playing experience and more progressive baseball concepts.
27. Colorado Rockies
Main Broadcasters: Drew Goodman and Jeff Huson
Ratings (Charisma/Analysis/Overall): 2.5, 2.2, 2.4
Three Reader Comments
• “[The] Rockies have always hired announcers who treat fans like the Rockies are perpetually an expansion team fanbase, which always seemed nuts since everyone here moved here from places with baseball.”
• “Drew Goodman can be a strong broadcaster when he engages with the game, but he has a tendency to lose focus. (I could imagine this may have something to do with 15 years of watching the Rockies play).”
• “Jenny [Cavnar] is fantastic, should be in booth with [Ryan Spilborghs] and Drew.”
Notes
More than with other broadcasts, respondents to the Rockies’ ballot drew particular attention to the actual production of the telecast, suggesting that it’s burdened by the integration of tweets and promotional offers and the like. There is some praise here for Ryan Spilborghs, who seems to appear with some frequency.
26. Washington Nationals
Main Broadcasters: Bob Carpenter and F.P. Santangelo
Ratings (Charisma/Analysis/Overall): 2.6, 2.3, 2.5
Three Reader Comments
• “Great couple of guys, obviously like each other and work well together, but tend to lean a little too heavily on some… stock phrases.”
• “Santangelo is best when giving the player perspective and granular nuts and bolts analysis.”
• “Bob Carpenter makes a nice scorebook, I’ll give him that.”
Notes
It’s possible to love one’s spouse in a profound and vulnerable way and yet grow tired of his or her company after three consecutive hours of it. So imagine how respondents might feel about a broadcast team for whom they do not possess a deep and abiding affection but whose work they nevertheless consume for three hours at a time, 162 days a year. The point is: many of the comments submitted by readers are merely fonts of vitriol and not included here. But the frustration is logical, at some level.
25. Cleveland Baseball Club
Main Broadcasters: Matt Underwood and Rick Manning
Ratings (Charisma/Analysis/Overall): 2.6, 2.5, 2.6
Three Reader Comments
• “Manning [made an]… impassioned plea on Opening Day 2016 to legalize the balk. Yeah, I don’t know either. It was weird.”
• “I met [studio host] Al Pawlowski once like 10 years ago, and we talked about how he called a Sumo Tournament for ESPN2.”
• “Not much to say about them.”
Notes
It’s quite possible that Cleveland’s television broadcasters suffer a bit from having to compete for the market’s affections with radio voice Tom Hamilton, generally beloved by the people. There’s no real uniform complaint among FanGraphs readers, but rather just a collection of minor criticisms.
24. St. Louis Cardinals
Main Broadcasters: Dan McLaughlin and Al Hrabosky
Ratings (Charisma/Analysis/Overall): 3.0, 2.5, 2.7
Three Reader Comments
• “The Cardinals TV announcers, particularly McLaughlin, inspired me to Google ‘ham-fisted sarcasm’ merely to see if there exists a term specific to what I was enduring. Spoiler alert: there is not.”
• “Mostly filling this out based off complaints my Dad has with the STL broadcast.”
• “cubs suck” [sic]
Notes
As was the case last time, more than one respondent in this series of balloting suspected that Al Hrabosky avails himself of a hard beverage during the course of his broadcasting duties. It wouldn’t be responsible for the present author to actually level a charge along those lines. That said, it’s wholly possible for one to seem drunk without actually drinking.
23. Minnesota Twins
Main Broadcasters: Dick Bremer and Bert Blyleven
Ratings (Charisma/Analysis/Overall): 3.1, 2.2, 2.8
Three Reader Comments
• “In recent years, Bremer has mixed in more advanced statistics, but with a noticeable disdain for them.”
• “[T]hey are the broadcast embodiment of the Twins baseball organization.”
• “Bert can be frustrating because, although he is Dutch, he doesn’t speak with an accent.”
Notes
In the introduction to these rankings, the author noted that “television and radio networks responsible for broadcasting the pastime likely have particular ideas about the criteria which constitute a successful broadcast. Those criteria are very possibly not the ones most relevant to a FanGraphs reader’s experience of the game.” Those comments appear to be relevant here. Dick Bremer and Bert Blyleven each represent, in his own way, an important part of Minnesota’s regional identity. Their reluctance to integrate progressive baseball ideas into a broadcast is not what’s going to make or break their appeal to the public.
22. Miami Marlins
Main Broadcasters: Rich Waltz and Eduardo Perez
Ratings (Charisma/Analysis/Overall): 2.9, 2.6, 2.8
One Reader Comment
• “I have neither heard nor seen the Marlins broadcast crew.”
Notes
Long-time color analyst Tommy Hutton was dismissed by the club this offseason for allegations of excessive negativity, which Hutton claimed were mere expressions of honesty. Given the organization’s behavior and performance in recent years, it would seem honesty might necessarily produce negativity. In any case, there’s a new team now that also includes Al Leiter and Preston Wilson. Unsurprisingly, there were relatively few ballots submitted here.
21. New York Yankees
Main Broadcasters: Michael Kay and Five Whole Other Guys
Ratings (Charisma/Analysis/Overall): 2.8, 2.9, 2.8
Three Reader Comments
• [Regarding Michael Kay] “It’s like listening to three hours of an auctioneer trying to inspire higher bids.”
• “More David Cone!”
• “It’s complicated.”
Notes
Certain respondents praise the YES Network’s rotating cast, suggesting that it keeps the commentary relatively fresh. Others would prefer an established pair or threesome with whom it might be possible to develop a deeper relationship. Both points of view seem to possess merit. And also not-merit, as well. David Cone is generally praised for his efforts to introduce advanced metrics to the broadcast.
Carson Cistulli has published a book of aphorisms called Spirited Ejaculations of a New Enthusiast.
As a Tigers fan, I weep for those of you who have already had your broadcast teams listed. I can’t believe I live in a world, where Rod Allen is somehow “better/not worse” than this many other broadcasters. You have my deepest sympathy.
Same, but Rangers for me.
it’s either love or hate with Rod. personally, I think he’s great. I don’t need my broadcaster talking numbers, just keep me entertained. When they put Gibby in there, you realize how much better Rod is…
Rod is divisive. personally, I like him
Same with Athletics. Kuiper and Fosse have apparently been shoved down our throats so long we are numb to the inanity.
I’m entirely with you about the A’s. I’m not a Giants fan, but I really enjoy listening to them on the radio because of the announcers, who I think have made me a more knowledgeable baseball fan. I miss Bill King.
That Blyleven comment is fantastic.
A general theme I am noticing is the crowd reacting negatively towards something that is unfortunately common: open and palpable disdain by broadcaters for the use of advanced statistics. That isn’t surprising, given the participants of the poll, but it seems like something that could be massaged by the networks. I don’t want advanced stats forced down throats, but if one of the broadcasters doesn’t care for them, simply ask them to stop bashing their use (usually from up on their high horse). Tone and delivery can go a long way in accomplishing this change.
My issue is that baseball was once characterized as “A thinking man’s game.” Many of these supposed old-school broadcast types probably would agree with that assessment. So they shouldn’t look at the work that some smart people have done in analysing the game and respond with derision and scorn.
There’s nothing wrong in just saying, “This seems nice, but the players generally are focused on their specific tasks more than the numbers.” And then you can just ignore it.
Baseball teams can’t ignore advance statistics without paying a price in results. Viewers have limited options if they want to watch and/or listen to their team’s games, although at least those of us with MLB.tv have the option of listening to another team’s broadcast.
This reminds me of corporate media in general, in that the technology has improved in news on TV, radio, newspapers, and the Internet, but a lot of journalists and editors mail it in, aren’t open to thoughts outside their norm, and are disdainful of people who are different. I agree that there are baseball broadcasters who term baseball as a thinking man’s game, but believe that we learned everything we needed to know 50 to 100 years ago, and anyone who thinks differently deserves to be put down. I’d hope anyone with pride in their work would learn of the latest advances and want to be knowledgable about them, then decide whether the new things make sense or not, but it often isn’t the case in broadcasting, and many other fields.
Dammit, I hate those “round earthers”
Ok, should have said spherical…
The problem is: what are the viewing demographics? I heard the average age of a MLB fan is 50. Maybe the stations think that the majority of their viewers are not interested in the advanced stats. It might make them feel lost, or stupid, if they can’t understand them, and then will tune out.
For those that grew up on HR, RBI, and AVG, they have a feel for what numbers are “good” and what are “bad”. Then you throw in WHIP, OPS, etc. and it’s like someone growing up with degrees Farenheit being told the temperature in Celsius. Is 20C hot or cold? That’s probably what it’s like for them.
And that’s why we say, leaving them out entirely is much better than using them and then bashing them.
Chip Carey is a committed homer, and thus will use any stat that makes a Braves player appear in a good light. He will just as quickly dismiss the same stat if it makes a Braves player appear in a not-so-good light. He does not ever seem the least bit phased by this. He could be a sociopath.
Or fazed, as it were.
There’s nothing wrong with being a bit homerish…but on a team that’s awful, as the Braves have been since the end of 2014, it’s dreadful to listen to unrestrained positivity. Try to sound like a human instead of a schill.
But what really is frustrating about Braves’ broadcasts is how intensely bland they are. Joe Simpson has been with the organization for 25 years, and often names will be brought up-Greg Maddux, John Smoltz, Rafael Belliard, Jeff Blauser-which a TALENTED broadcaster would use as the opportunity to tell a quick story. These hacks do not tell any anecdotes, but just name drop popular Braves’ players from the past as a quick reminder to their audience that the Braves used to be really good.
I moved out of the Braves’ market several years ago and just got mlb.tv this year, so this has been my first chance to watch the team on a regular basis since 2010. A couple of things have really stood out to me watching the team this year:
-Chip and Joe both rely heavily on W-L when discussing pitchers, to the point where I believe they mention it more than any other pitching stat (even ERA)
-They tend to focus on one story and beat it into the ground. I know this is partially due to the on-field product not being very interesting, but I don’t think I can handle hearing about Tyler Flowers’ new catcher’s mask he invented another time.
-The commitment to blandness is especially jarring if you grew up listening to Skip Caray. I know Skip is one of the all-time greats and a hard act to follow, but Chip is like a toned-down Joe Buck.
Just about all of the “all-time greats” are no longer broadcasting. is Vin Scully the only one left?
Maybe in about 20 years, we’ll look upon some members of current broadcasting crews and put them in the same class, but right now it just doesn’t feel like it.
There’s a guy the other day that considers Hawk one of the greats. I really think he’s serious. If you need a laugh look at #31-32… quite funny.
I think about this often. I wonder if the lack of distinction between broadcasters makes elevating some over others difficult. What makes/made Vin or Harwell or any of the other all-timers great was that they were unique and special in their own way. The trend over the past 20 years has been to make almost all play-by-play guys the same.
My theory is that as long as we’re seemingly beholden to the 2-man or 3-man booth, we’ll never again see a broadcaster who could contend with the all-time greats. The broadcaster’s job is to hold a conversation. For most, it’s to converse with the color-guy. For someone like Vin, it’s to converse with the audience, to speak directly to the person listening, to tell the story of the game. It’s the experience of doing this that grooms the storytelling skills we admire in great broadcasters.
The more our current crop of homogenized play-by-play guys are forced to set the tee for analysts (or “analysts”), conduct in-game interviews, etc., the further we get from broadcasting as an artisan’s craft.
“professional distance” describes Tom McCarthy’s broadcast perfectly. The radio broadcast is great, although they have a pretty explicit disdain for advanced metrics (specifically Larry Andersen).
LA and Franzke are awesome. They call the game as they see it instead of relying on meaningless platitudes. I can get my stats insights elsewhere, but LA brings some great “from the player’s point of view”. And they don’t pull any punches, which definitely works for a Philly audience.
I wasn’t saying they need to inject advanced analysis into their broadcast for it to be good or better, but when they’ve discussed some metrics in the past, they’ve laughed them off and derided them (I remember a specific link about WAR). It made for a poor listening experience. I’d expect that out of Larry, he’s old and crotchety, but I expected more from Franzke. They’d be just fine if they never mentioned stats, or embraced them, but when they make fun of them (specifically because they didn’t understand what they were) it’s a bit embarrassing. Overall I still think they have one of the best broadcasts (TV or Radio). Franzke calls a great game, knows his way around the language, LA has his shtick of hating umpires and his experience as a player, and they have great chemistry. Throw in Jim Jackson and it’s complete.
Agreed! I just meant it didn’t bother me too much because they’re so damn charismatic.
Oh man FP Santangelo is the worst. Such a homer and offers little in the way of knowledge.
I actually disagree pretty strongly here. I like the mini-lessons he gives 2-3 times per day, usually targeted at 7th-8th graders who need to pick up good baseball playing technique/etiquette/form. Sure, to a really experienced fan they may sometimes be old news, but I’ve learned a lot from him about body positioning, light/shadow angles, guessing what pitch is going to be thrown next, etc.
It’s no replacement for the Nats radio crew, but I do like when FP stops being silly and apologizing for players committing errors, and starts diving into a skill topic like that.
I’m an O’s fan, but I’ll watch an occasional Nats game if it’s against someone good. I don’t have any real feelings either way towards Carpenter, but FP annoys the hell out of me for some reason. I’m assuming, based on the rankings, it’s that way for a lot of people.
FP frequently insults the character and work ethic of players on the other team. He’s also really into the macho tough guy shit. He’s just a straight up asshole.
And to be fair, my team’s guy Joe Simpson is basically just a duller more grandpa-ish version of FP.
See, before FP we had Rob Dibble, who makes FP look like Mr. Rogers.
FP and Bob Carpenter are pretty solid homers but they regularly recognize the good plays and achievements of opposing players. I haven’t seen any of this character assassination mentioned above.
All in all, I think the Nats TV broadcast team is better than this ranking pegs them, but maybe I’m just comfortably familiar with them. FP in particular has grown on me a lot, with his sunny disposition and informative comments breaking down plays. The team falls a little short in bringing up stories about the various players, a la Jon Miller or the Nats radio team of Charlie and Dave, but they’re companionable when viewing a game.
Okay, I can kinda agree with you regarding the change from Dibble to FP. As much as I dislike FP, he’s not as bad as Dibble.
I understand that “homer” is considered an epithet as applied to broadcasters, but in the Nationals’ unique situation it is somewhat welcome. Remember the regional sports network that broadcasts the games is owned by the owner of a rival team who fought the Nats’ very existence for decades. There were a number of examples of the network favoring the Orioles in the early years of the team. And of course our viewership continues to go primarily to lining Angelos’ pockets. In a situation like that Nats fans actually take some comfort from knowing that someone at the network is on their side.
The bigger problem with Santangelo is his stubborn rejection of a number of recent advances in the game- most notably defensive shifts, which he rails against with all manner of nonsensical arguments.
I think Carpenter is much worse. He frequently has no idea about the rulebook or what is going on in the game.
More importantly, what the heck is a “front door” offspeed pitch? I’ve played baseball for nearly my entire life and never heard that term once. Even if you assume it is the opposite/compliment to a “backdoor” slider, I don’t think he uses it consistently. It drives me nuts…
FP seems to say “Are you kidding me? No, really… are you kidding me?” or something very similar every time Harper hits more than 1 home run in a 2-3 game span.
I think he’s admitted that he does that consciously/deliberately. Like Bob’s irritating “see you later” home run call, which I hate even more.
The worst part is that when the Nationals hit back-to-back homers, Bob’s second call goes from “see…you…later!” to “see…YOU!…later,” as if the baseballs are saying goodbye to each other.
Wait, what about FPs daily announcement: there goes the no hitter! These guys are tired. Their cliches and stock phrases are tiresome. The faux Bob homerism is tired. Maybe FP would be better if he was paired up with someone stronger. As others have said, it’s also a larger MASN issue.
Thank god for 19 games with SNY.
Yeah I have to say that FP is very informative and is even better when doing a national broadcast game for FOX. Carpenter really bothers me though
I know we’ve probably passed the point of no return, but the gradual shameless homerization of home broadcasts is a problem, much like the shameless partisanship of the major media (Fox, MSNBC, etc) is a big problem.
I am so sick of hearing “There goes the no hitter”, as though he is saying something clever. FP also has said things like “a team is no better than its 25th player” and thinks that “productive outs” win more games than home runs.
He also predictably says “Game on” if the Nats are behind and get a baserunner or two, and any event even slightly out of the ordinary is met with “Unbelievable!”.
Yeah, I really hate F.P. (his announcing, that is. He may be a prince when not announcing).
The Cardianls tv guys are actually rotating more now. They added Jim Edmonds this spring, and he is actually surprisingly good. Excellent analysis and commentary. They also have Tim McCarver do a lot of games, who I understand is polarizing, but his ridiculously deep wealth of knowledge and experiences I find interesting. Also, Ricky Horton does a lot of games. He’s somewhere in the middle.
My point is that McLaughlin does every game, but the 2nd guy rotates quite a bit. Hrabosky’s role has steadily decreased the last few years, which is fine with me. Edmonds/McCarver are quite an upgrade, and they make the broadcasts better.
I’ve avoided the Cardinals TV audio this year, so I’m glad to hear the commentary has improved. But for me, the problem has always been Dan McLaughlin. What is it about this man that is so valuable he kept his job despite getting busted for drinking and driving twice?
Agreed. I really don’t have a problem with Danny Mac but I can see why some people don’t like him. Regardless, he’s only 42 so he’ll probably be around for a long time coming. Edmonds has been refreshing and it’s nice to get a newer era of player commentators in there besides Hrabosky and Horton. Personally, I’d love to see Brad Thompson eventually work into a color role as well, because he’s damn awesome.
I try to watch the away feed at least once for every series that my team plays. Tim McCarver is the only guy who has been able to drive me back to home feed.
I don’t mind Danny Mac – he’s about as good as you could hope for, for a guy who has to fill hours of TV a day. Hrabosky and McCarver are both absolutely shocking, though, relics of a less informed time. Every broadcast either is involved with, you can guarantee one of them will say something brain-buggeringly stupid.
Edmonds is fine, and will hopefully get better, and I like Horton a lot too.
McCarthy is an absolute buffoon and the WB Mason comment is right on. One of my old favorite moments of his-
“Welcome to 2012 Phillies baseball!”
It was the first 2013 Spring Training game.
And just last week during the Braves series…
Man on first, no outs. “The Braves turn 2 and the side is retired…er, 2 outs I should say.”
Close play at 2nd…”Freddy Galvis will have a tough decision here on the challenge.” Gonzalez Tom, the Braves manager is Fredi Gonzalez.
I wouldn’t let occasional little slips like that annoy me too much. If YOU try to talk for 3 hours at a time when hundreds of thousands of people are listening to you, you’ll find that you would probably slip up occasionally too. I know I do all the time, by calling one of my daughters by my other daughters’ name, stuff like that.
Yes, I know professional announcers should do better than the general public, but my point is with an incredibly large volume of material spoken, odds are there will be occasional slip ups like these.
Why arent the braves and indians names stated? something to do with their names being racially offensive?
The author seems to be a bit juvenile about the Native American team names, unfortunately. It’s detracting from the article and distracting to his comment sections.
I assume that’s the intended effect, and he’ll maintain his protest until the team names change.
There is nothing juvenile about opting not to participate in clear (even if unintended) racism.
I think it’s fine. he actually takes the understated approach to making the point, maybe too understated if the question had to be asked. Heck, he could have driven his point across even more forcefully by calling them “Cleveland Baseball Club with the racially offensive mascot”, or something like that.
Your comment is useless; it adds nothing that isn’t accepted by approximately everyone here. With that said,
The racial offensiveness of Native American team nicknames, such as Braves, Indians, Seminoles, etc., isn’t a settled issue. (There may be growing consensus on related topics, such as the offensiveness of Chief Wahoo, which is why the Cleveland Indians continue to reduce the use of that logo in their marketing.) If it were settled that those team names were regarded as offensive across American society, I imagine those teams would be changing their names pretty quick.
Being unable to set aside his own opinions on a politically divisive issue while writing an unrelated article is immature. In using the site as a platform, and through repetition of his meme, the author signals the opinions of the site and its editors. On divisive issues, this has a cost: it drives away those who disagree; it may be off-putting to fans of the targeted team; it’s annoying to people that are here for baseball analysis and not politics. (Although maybe it brings in folks that want politics or social commentary.) To the extent those people stop visiting the site and contributing their own commentary, I think that’s unfortunate.
It’s also unfortunate if unrelated political commentary keeps people from staying at the site long enough for their opinion on baseball analytics to change. Is it the mission of Fangraphs to present baseball analysis and change people’s mind about how to think about baseball? Or is the mission of Fangraphs a social one? Both? How are the two weighed?
Obviously it’s the choice of the site, its editors, and its authors. They may be willing to pay the cost of a divisive social stance, or think the net cost is small, because the social mission is important to them (please pardon my cynicism about monetary motivations below; it’s uncharitable of me to think that motivates their choices).
Except that he didn’t say anything… You’re the one telling him what to say. You’re the one making the big deal of it. He’s uncomfortable with something, and chose not to say it… it’s that fucking simple. Who are you to tell him what to say?
I really attempt to not comment on such things as I honestly do not care, but it is distracting as DKH suggests. Not addressing a team name because you subjectively believe it is offensive is one thing, but is it really necessary to do it in a baseball related article that has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion of socially acceptable team names?
How about addressing all teams as CITY Baseball Club, at least for the sake of consistency. Unless the goal is to ruffle feathers, I think it would accomplish the same desired effect of not typing what you consider an socially unacceptable team name without being unnecessarily distracting.
With that said, this was probably a waste of five minutes as I still enjoyed this article, all of Cistuli’s work even if I do not agree with his social politics, and we will all be dead in 100 years anyways. Happy Tuesday everyone!
We may all be dead in 100 years, but what we do now does have an affect on those living 100 years from now. I think African-Americans can be thankful for the civil rights leaders of yesteryear, for example.
I was going to type a response about how you missed the point of my comment, but then remembered that I still do not care. My desire to try help someone, who I will never interact with again, understand my point of view about how I think real world issues such as social norms policy and entertainment outlets such as a Fangraphs article on baseball that has nothing directly to do with those real world issues do not need to be blended to the point of distraction regardless of degree.
Cody, no I got the point of your comment, I just happen to disagree with it. Entertainment and politics very often do intertwine, as much as you might prefer to separate them into their own individual compartments, that’s pretty much impossible. It’s called real life.
If you are “distracted” by this, you may have bigger problems to worry about.
Ignoring the personal attack, my comment was a statement based on previous articles (e.g. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/instagraphs/crowdsourcing-mlb-broadcasters-day-2-of-10/, and now this comment section). It’s feedback for the editors/authors to consider or disregard as they wish, and to the extent they want the site to be about baseball analysis or social politics. I imagine they will search for a profit-maximizing balance among the two (and among humor, fantasy analysis, etc.).
I think it is very slightly distracting. My guess is that the author is not 100% committed to being non-offensive, but has without much thought decided it would be a good idea to attempt to make this a cause celebre. But maybe this is a deeply held belief in not using Native American terms for baseball teams? Or maybe he’s just trying to be different or contrarian? Who knows? Who really cares? Either way, he is probably happy that there is a big long comment thread about it, no matter what his original intentions were.
On another note, with the Washington Redskins acting as a buffer, I think the Braves and Indians are safe, at least for now.
Interestingly enough, the Washington Post released a poll showing 90% of Native Americans don’t care about the Redskins name, nor do they find it offensive.
But of course, they just aren’t being offended enough, so we have to offended for them.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/new-poll-finds-9-in-10-native-americans-arent-offended-by-redskins-name/2016/05/18/3ea11cfa-161a-11e6-924d-838753295f9a_story.html?tid=sm_tw
I’m more offended by our presidential options then a name, but yea, I guess everybody has an agenda.
A football writer I enjoy calls the Washington Redskins the “Potomac Drainage Basin Indigenous Persons.”
Oh dear god, it sounds like Greggggggggggggggggggggg Easterbrook.
because the author is a SJW hipster d-bag who would rather preen to everyone about how smug he is than participate in the world like a rational human being.
The MLB.tv audio overlay option is well worth the cash for Braves fans. Powell and Sutton are so much easier on the ears.
Michael Kay reminds me of a baseball video game broadcaster. All of his calls are made up of separate pre-recorded clips combined by an algorithm in predictable ways:
“Driven deep to right field!
“There it gooooes… SEE YA!”
“A two-run home run!”
“For Brian McCann!”
“And the Yankees lead”
“4”
“to 1.”
Sadly, I’ve watched maybe a dozen Yankees broadcasts in the last decade, and I can hear Michael Kay’s voice speaking this sequence perfectly.
Upvoted, but to be fair, there is a NY alternative that is far more horrifying to listen to for home run calls…
You must be talking about Sterling, because the Mets broadcast got a higher rating than the Yankees one.
I transplanted from KC MO to northern NJ 8 years ago with a Yankees fan wife. Kay is a little canned, but a home run call is supposed to be familiar and recurrent, isn’t it? He doesn’t usually bother me during games, though he’s such a company man that he’s basically the Yankees/YES Network official spokesman and gets a little sidetracked on non-game stuff. He does get a lot of undeserved extra credit simply by not being John Sterling and Susyn Waldman, the radio team, who are truly, aggressively horrible. Cone is entertaining, on point and does indeed throw advanced metrics into his analysis. Paul O’ Neill is generally entertaining and relatively insightful, despite his jugheaded former player persona. Ken Singleton is an amiable hack who brings little to the broadcasts. This season has been better for YES leaving John Flaherty in the studio. His incessant talking and wrongheaded analysis were a too-familiar irritant in recent seasons. IMO a regular team of Kay, Singleton (who’s there for most games) and any of the other color guys but Cone wouldn’t be a net plus for the broadcasts.
If you must listen to Sterling, I find it helps to imagine that he is six years old.
You for got to call him the “McCanndy Man”
or what about the “A-Bomb” for “A-Rod”
You win the prize!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-Star_Baseball
The Phillies are actually decent this year (so far), so that’s not an excuse. Plus I’m sure the radio broadcast will get good marks. The TV broadcast is just that bad.
• “[The] Rockies have always hired announcers who treat fans like the Rockies are perpetually an expansion team fanbase, which always seemed nuts since everyone here moved here from places with baseball.”
As one of those who moved from a place with baseball, this explains EVERYONE who covers Rockies baseball – news, sports radio, broadcast…
That, and they seem to think nothing about baseball can be complained without using a Broncos analogy.
*explained without using a Broncos analogy
[paging Dr. Freud.]
To be fair, the one and only time I encountered an adult (20s-something) American male sports fan watching a baseball game in a bar who didn’t know most of the fundamental facts about baseball, it was a guy who had grown up in Denver. This was 2007 in Seattle, and having moved there recently he decided he should go down to a bar and root for the Rockies in the World Series. He was dumbfounded when I explained that each of the MLB fields had different outfield dimensions. (The contrast between Coors and Fenway being particularly stark, this was both obvious and somehow completely incomprehensible — he kept trying to analogize what football would be like if fields weren’t all 100 yards long; I didn’t have the heart to tell him about the CFL).
When I realized he was viewing everything through the lens of the NFL in general (and the Broncos in particular) I started blowing his mind with other facts, like there was no clock on the pitcher, and baseball teams couldn’t trade draft picks (and it rarely mattered anyway, because draft picks took so long to show up in the majors).
True about the Denver sports fans, it’s kind of sad when I know more about baseball than some of the actual baseball announcers.
Talking to that guy in the bar reminds me of some of my conversations with Tebow. Especially me also not having the heart to tell him about the CFL.
Just neighing.
In the rooms the women come and go,
Talking of F.P. Santangelo.
Pete Rose?
Wow, never imagined the Kinsella & fangraphs streams would ever cross.
I have measured out my life with coffee spoonerisms
Vin Scully has always said he shuts himself up when the crowd is going crazy. He lets the crowd have it’s moment. That’s one annoying thing with Guby on the Angels broadcast. When the crowd is going crazy he keeps talking and talking and talking. Dude just goes on and on.
Since I was the one that submitted the Bert Blyleven comment, I would like to add some context (though it does sound rather hilarious out-of-context).
I was ranting that he mispronounces names and words constantly. “Tomahawk” is “tommy-hawk,” “Kazmir” is “Kashmere,” “Giavotella” is “Giavotelly,” “Zobrist” is “Zobrith,” etc. My comment that Carson used was pointing out that although he is Dutch, he has no discernible accent and thus it cannot be used an an excuse for his mispronunciations.
There’s only two things I can’t stand – people who are intolerant of other people’s culture, and the Dutch.
As Rays’ announcer Dewayne Staats has said, “If you ain’t Dutch, you ain’t much.”
Oh, why’d you spoil it? The out-of-context quote was hilarious.
“Bert can be frustrating because, although he is Dutch, he doesn’t speak with an accent.”
I read that and literally laughed out loud!
Hey now, I didn’t stifle your original laugh! I just ruined future ones.
As a mets fan I can confirm all the other NL East teams deserve their rankings.
I was like, where are the Blue Jays? Then I realized there are 32 broadcasts.
Thank God for park audio.
The internet and MLB.tv are exposing baseball broadcast teams to national norms in a way that should improve overall quality.
Having heard the Yankees broadcast sparingly, this was my impression:
This is the New York Yankees Geico Broadcast brought to you by Dick’s Sporting Goods. Dick’s, it’s where sports means sensuality. Now we move on to the first batter of the game. This is the opening at bat, brought to you by Carl’s Jr, the official opening at bat restaurant of the New York Yankees. And the first pitch is a ball. This ball is brought to you by….
There are no Carl’s Jr’s in the East..
I’m from western Canada, just picked random things that are American. This comment has been brought to you by…
I remember as a kid, seeing Carl’s Jr referenced in movies and I always thought that it was a fictional restaurant that they had to use. Like how all phone numbers started with 555. We have Hardee’s on the East, and as I understand it, they are basically the same restaurant now.
” Certainly, it must be difficult for the broadcasters themselves to muster enthusiasm for a poor team.”
See the Mets team. As a fan, its more fun to watch the games when the Mets are winning. But just the sheer enjoyment from the broadcast team is actually peaked when the Mets are worst.
Yes. The way to gauge the talent of a broadcast team is to see how they handle a crappy team. The Braves’ teams of the 1980s had Ernie Johnson, Skip Caray, and Pete Van Wieren, and it was marvelous. As a Braves fan, Chip Caray and Joe Simpson utterly fail to provide any entertainment when the team is crappy. At BEST, they’re bland and stale.
Agreed, on several counts. First, I watched those 80’s Braves broadcast and loved them. Skip Caray was one of the best broadcasters I’ve ever heard. (Obviously it’s not genetic, as I thought his father was not good, and his son is just very bland.)
Secondly, since baseball announcers need to fill so much dead time, it really shouldn’t matter so much how good the team is. Good announcing teams can play off each other and make anything interesting, even a crappy team.
The games when the Mets are losing/winning big are the games where Gary gets to ask Ron and Keith about details of pitching and hitting. They have gone into it about shifts recently with Ron thinking it is OK as along as it doesn’t change how a pitcher can approach a hitter. Keith thinks that hitters need to learn how to go oppo to make it moot.
The best Scully games are blowout games with the Dodgers getting clobbered. He really shines re: storytelling then.
The people who are complaining about Cistulli not calling Atlanta and Cleveland by their names are a bunch of adult babies.
I’m sorry but that’s unfair. I doubt they’re adults
I once asked a fan to stop doing the tomahawk chop. (Mainly because I’d listened to him and his buddy say racist shit all game long, and *very maturely* thought I could at least annoy him as much as he was annoying me.)
He told me it wasn’t racist, where did I even come up with the idea that it was (apparently he’s been a coma since the 80s), and that he didn’t have a prejudiced bone in his body, so I should “shut the fuck up”.
He proceeded to wonder why a hippy like me (I had long hair) was even at a baseball game instead of “some pussy ballet shit”, and hypothesized that my buddy and I liked giving each other blow jobs (as if this somehow made us sub-human).
Adult babies, indeed.
I’d dearly like to know the percentage of each MLB streaming broadcast where the audio feed is switched to either local radio or to crowd noise, broken down by team. That would be pretty telling. I haven’t subjected myself to the Royals teevee crew (Hi Rex!) for going on two full seasons now, especially when I can get Denny Matthews much of the time for p-b-p instead.
*skims*
harrelson and the white sox aren’t at the bottom or even in the bottom third? i see no reason to to read any further, this list is flawed beyond repair
They were in the bottom two yesterday, chief. Skim harder.
I listened to the White Sox broadcast growing up; my brother hated Hawk Harrelson, and I understood why; however, I still go back to hear the familiar voice. It’s not velvety as Jon Miller, and he doesn’t ever add much to the game, but he’s there.
Talk about damning with faint praise. Most broadcasters–with the possible exception of Keith Hernandez during his naps–are there. It’s literally the least they can do.
I know. Just went back to the #31-32 thread and saw the strong opinions. In hindsight, my comment was not about the announcer, but the familiarity of a sound. As Ryan Madsonnand others discussed in Laurila’s interview.
Jason you mean the bottom two yesterday *Baseball Club*.
They are ranked last.
I saw where the Baseball Clubs fired their manager today, but what can you expect after a 9-28 start?
24. St. Louis Cardinals
Main Broadcasters: Dan McLaughlin and Al Hrabosky
Ratings (Charisma/Analysis/Overall): 3.0, 2.5, 2.7
Three Reader Comments
• “cubs suck” [sic]
Good to see johnforthegiants making informed comments on the various broadcast teams!
Regarding Chris Welsh for the Reds, he posted some Twitter queries in the off-season asking fans what they’d like to see in the broadcasts. One topic that got a lot of response was adding OBP to the player overlay when they come to bat for the first time. Previously, only AVG/HR/RBI was shown. To his credit, perhaps, Fox Sports Ohio now show OBP on the screen (most of the time).
The Yankees team is fantastic. Getting to listen to Cone and O’Neill is a real treat because they experienced so much in the game. Also, Ken Singleton is very insightful about how hitters actually approach at bats. Plus he seems to be a genuinely nice guy. ….retired now, but Jim Kaat was fantastic as well.
I find it interesting that Cone is getting some praise simply because he talks a bit of statistics. Cone’s discussion of statistics is far and away the least interesting thing he does. I know more about statistics than Cone does, so at best he might make me feel comfortable by parroting something I already know. On the other hand, Cone knows A LOT about actual pitching that almost none of us are privy too. Thankfully he spends a lot more time teaching us about that than he does talking about stats.
I’m absolutely amazed how little I agree with these aggregate rankings so far. I knew FG readers seemed to have different broadcast values from mine but I didn’t know just how different. I think of myself as looking for articulate play-by-play above all else, mostly being fairly indifferent to “analysis,” and hating above all homerism. FG readers seem to value excitement and personality, non-saber-hostility, and even some kinds of homerism. It’s interesting.
I wonder if there’s a fan effect or a selection bias — it’d be interesting to see how the ranking looked _excluding_ fans of the team in question.
But how often do you get to hear a local broadcast of a team you aren’t a fan of? In Tennessee I can occasionally check out the Braves and that’s about it. I’m aware of Hawk Harrelson’s shtick, Michael Kay’s shtick, and I like Miller and Scully, but Miller I know from his ESPN days and Scully because he’s been alive since the Bronze Age.
The mlb.tv app has opened it up for a lot of baseball fans in general. I will put on a random game in the background while I work.
MLB.tv! Sometimes I spend all day watching other teams than the one I root for play baseball. It’s glorious.
I obviously wouldn’t enjoy this site if I didn’t enjoy statistical analysis, but the announcers are not there to break each play down to data, they are there to present what happens real time. It is interesting to inject some statistical analysis as appropriate, but baseball is meant to be entertainment too. I love listening to Vin because he paints such a vivid picture of the players as humans, not statistical machines. (I love listening to the Giants Kruk and Kuip for the same reason) Some of these broadcaster’s are just plain boring or more than a little irritating. I also think teams should drop the “hot girl” on the sideline schtick and give some of those ladies a chance to call the game.
Hate to Chris Welch’s name attached to this. He does a great job and I feel he only tolerates Thom Brennaman…maybe only because he has to. I can’t imagine there being a worse broadcaster than Thom Brennaman.
I miss Lewin/Grieves from years back.
Let me use this as a rare opportunity to express just how much I dislike Bob Carpenter on the Nats calls. Dude single-handedly makes baseball uncool with his insufferable “see you later”s, “jam job”s and “he’s really something”s. How someone who spends his living days observing the game of baseball manages to maintain a 7th grade understanding of how it works boggles the mind.
Belated comment on the previous installment: I have grown to kind of like Hawk, and I acknowledge completely this is only the case because my team is in the other league, and so I only hear him a handful of times a year.
Comment unrelated to the content of this installment: I think one team, just one, desperately needs to get a broadcaster with a British accent. Or an Australian accent! It would be so empowering to have this choice available to us.
Also, serious respect for the omission of appropriative baseball team names.
As a Mets fan, I’ve been spoiled by better than average broadcasting my entire life. I make an effort to check out as many feeds as I can, despite the general low quality of TV broadcasts today. It’s a wonderful age of technology that allows us to hear and watch things that we never could before.
The NL East is a cesspool of crappy announcers. I’m relieved to see that EVERY TEAM in the division finished in the 21+ worst rankings. Not because I’m a homer, but because it means I’m still sane. Every time I try to switch to the away feed my ears bleed.
As a Twin, I am deeply offended that my kind is subjected to a sports team nickname.
My grandfather, a long-time Mariner, is also offended by such a name.
My uncle, a leader in the Catholic church, is offended by the Cardinals nickname.
My next door neighbor, a 7-2 man, is offended by the Giants.
My father, who went AWOL during ‘Nam, is offended by the Dodgers.
My cousin, who is a Nigerian prince (or so the emails say), is offended by the Royals.
These are all deeply offensive to many people, and it would be best if you’d stop using them. Thanks a bunch.
As a person who enjoys humor, I am offended by your attempt thereat.
I am offended by your being offended.
Because of my irrational offense at your being offended, I will pretend you are not so.
It is the Atlanta BRAVES until when/if the name is changed. Calling them anything else is offensive….and downright incorrect.
The PC police are constantly aggrieved. They’ll find something “less offensive” and in 6 months, it’ll become offensive again.
Yankees broadcast is insufferable…second only to their radio broadcast.