An Embarrassing Week of Player Complaints
Baseball is getting chippy.
On Tuesday, the New York Times reported that the Red Sox were being investigated by Major League Baseball for violating the league’s rule against using electronics in the dugout. Specifically, the Yankees filed a complaint alleging the Red Sox used an Apple Watch to receive information from their replay staff, who had used the video reviews to decode the Yankees signs. According to the report, the Red Sox did not deny the allegation, instead going with the playground favorite “they do it too” defense, filing a counter complaint stating the Yankees using a YES Network camera to steal signs.
Then yesterday, Athletics third baseman Matt Chapman got ejected after arguing with Angels catcher Juan Graterol over, you guessed it, sign stealing.
Chapman said he was trying to stick up for teammates Graterol had accused of stealing signs. “I think this stemmed back to a couple of days ago. They thought we were relaying signs from second base and they also thought a couple of hitters were peeking at catchers’ signs,” Chapman said.
“When we were digging into the box today, the catcher kept staring at the hitters as they were digging into the box. That’s not a very comfortable feeling having the catcher staring at you. It’s a little disrespectful. So when I got into the box, I just let them know we were not stealing signs and there was no need to be staring at us. He obviously didn’t take too kindly to that.”
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“We have video on what they do,” Angels starter Tyler Skaggs said. “If they need to look at signs to hit, it is what it is.”
Canha said that Graterol told him, “Stop looking at my signs,” and he had done the same thing to Chad Pinder. “Chad’s not the type of guy who would do that. I’ve never done that in my career,” Canha said. “I thought it was just a Scioscia-Angels-Graterol tactic to make young players get uncomfortable, just get in my head. I was just like, ‘OK, play your little games and I’m just going to focus on the task at hand.’”
These incidents came less than a week since a pair of pitcher/batter confrontations. Last week, CC Sabathia got mad at Eduardo Nunez for laying down a bunt against him, because Sabathia’s knee hurts and he doesn’t think opponents should make him field his position when he’s not 100%. And then Trevor Bauer and Avisail Garcia had a testy at-bat on Monday, after Garcia apparently decided he was unhappy with the amount of breaking balls Bauer was throwing him, and yelled at the mound to try to get Bauer to throw him fastballs instead.
Certainly, the Red Sox case is a bit different than the other three, in that they actually broke a rule and committed a legitimate violation of league rules. While sign stealing isn’t a violation, using technology to communicate in the dugout absolutely is; it’s why the iPads provided to teams for their dugout use have their wireless connections disabled.
So MLB will almost certainly have to discipline the team so as to not give tacit approval to other organizations to start using technology to communicate with off-field officials, which could significantly change the game. If pitchers believe that their signs could easily be captured by someone watching on video and then relayed in real time to the dugout, the counter might be something like a mound visit between every pitch, which would be an untenable result for the league. So that needs to be prevented, and thus the punishment for breaking the electronic communications rule needs to be more painful than the reward for breaking the rule is beneficial.
But the rest of this? This all just comes across as high profile whining.
The entire point of having coded signs is that you know that you’re communicating information to your teammates that your opponents would find valuable; of course those opponents are then going to attempt to break that code. Even calling it “sign stealing” is overly dramatic; it’s really more like “puzzle solving”, which sounds significantly less nefarious. You can’t legitimately get mad when you communicate prized information about your plan to defeat your opponent in front of your opponent and then they respond by trying to figure out what you’re saying.
The same goes for a catcher and setup location. If you’re going to move into a position to better receive a ball in a way that will encourage the umpire to call a strike, the trade-off is that everyone can see what you’re doing before the pitch is released. There’s no reasonable expectation of privacy here. If shifting your body behind the plate provides useful information to your opponent, that’s the cost of doing so; getting upset that the opponent gleaned information you chose to provide is ridiculous.
But not quite as ridiculous as Sabathia claiming that it’s now somehow unethical to make him field his position. If Sabathia isn’t athletic enough to get off the mound and make a play on a bunt, that’s a flaw in his abilities, the same as if he lost five mph on his fastball or couldn’t throw his curveball for strikes. Part of his job description is being able to make plays on balls bunted in his general direction. If he can’t do that, the Yankees need to adjust their defensive alignment in order to compensate for their pitcher’s deficiencies, and then he has to suffer the consequences of having a mis-aligned defense because he’s not physically capable of performing every part of his job. It’s not any different from a team having to shade their center fielder towards left field because they chose to run a DH out there.
And then there’s Garcia, who apparently was unhappy that Bauer decided to throw him bendy pitches. Because apparently hitters should get to choose what kind of pitches they are thrown? This doesn’t even deserve its own paragraph, given how ridiculous it is on its face.
I get that baseball players have their own set of rules, and as outsiders, we’re not necessarily privy to some of the norms that have been established through the years. But these complaints have crossed over from cultural and behavioral differences to complaining about opponents trying to do things that help them win the game on the field. Of course they’re going to try to gain an advantage. That’s the whole point of the sport. It’s a competition. They’re trying to beat you.
The Red Sox crossed a line by using electronics in the dugout to get outside information that couldn’t be gleaned another way. That deserves punishment so it doesn’t become the new normal. But the actual act of “sign stealing”? Or looking back when the catcher moves? Or bunting against a pitcher who isn’t a good fielder? Or throwing a freaking curveball to a hitter who wants a fastball?
That’s baseball. Stop complaining about your opponent making it harder for you to win the game. That’s their job. Do yours better than they do theirs, and you won’t have to look like a fool by whining to the media after the game is over.
Dave is the Managing Editor of FanGraphs.
Slightly different tangent, but I’m amazed Gary Sanchez received only a three game suspension for cold-cocking two Red Sox. Players engage in activities like throwing balls at 90+ MPH and punching one another–actions that are significant crimes in the public sphere–and receive a slap on the wrist.
Assuming you mean Tigers here, right?
Sorry, you’re right, thanks.
Some of these, such as Papelbon choking Harper, should probably be treated as crimes.
I’d rather my tax dollars not go towards putting Papelbon through the judicial system for getting in a dugout scuffle with his teammate. Treating something like that as a crime will not make the world a better, safer place.
would love to see what would happen if you took on harper in a fight
Yankee fan here and I agree. Sanchez should have gotten at least 5.
I hate that you can intentionally bean a guy but say that you didn’t do it on purpose, while getting off relatively scot-free, yet when Alex Wilson was actually honest and admitted to beaning a guy, he got suspended for four games. It’s sad that you get punished for honesty and rewarded for lying.
Why single out Gary Sanchez? Pretty much everyone got off easy.
Because he’s the only one who cheapshotted anyone, and he did it twice?
Miguel Cabrera started a brawl almost single-handed and also got off easy. You can see why I might still be unclear.
Cabrera did not start a “brawl”. He started a fight with one person, which certainly deserves suspension. He should get what anyone else gets for throwing the first punch.
Regardless, even though we all “know it’s going to happen” as in we know the benches will clear, and Cabrera knows that too, it’s ultimately each person’s individual choice to join the fight. MLB should be more like the NBA in this regard, and punish all players who leave the bench to fight (iirc, that’s what the NBA does).
Thank you.
They need to revolutionize their signs. Gestures seem like they are limited. Maybe the Pitcher and catcher should just talk to each other like a qb and the rest of the offense, because there are so many more words to use than fingers like a catcher or hand gestures. Wouldn’t it be fun to here the pitcher yelling “Omaha” over and over?
LMHAO!!!!!!!!!
They could start using those big posters like Oregon football does.
I mean, ok.
This piece smells of play-the-game-the-right-way-ism, which is surprising that it’s coming from Dave.
Is it odd the Angels and A’s are annoyed about players looking back at the catcher or not? Sure but why can’t they?
Is it odd CC wants to talk smack about Nunez bunting on him? Sure, but why can’t he?
Is it odd Garcia and Bauer belittled each other regarding the type of pitches thrown? Sure, but why can’t they?
It’s September baseball. Players getting agitated about small issues is human. We all get annoyed towards the end of our work day. For the fans, it gives us something to talk about. For the league, it gives them a bit more publicity that is different from their usual boring ways. It was great to see Twitter blowing up about “Applegate” and a video of Bauer pointing at the dugout. That’s fun!
I get where you’re coming from, Dave but let the players play. You may see it as “complaining” but I see it as another day at the 162+ game job.
I agree to an extent. Players have the right to act like children, and we should acknowledge that. But Dave Cameron also has the right to criticize players for acting like children. And it was good journalism, so I’m all the more for it.
I’m totally fine with Dave writing this piece (see my last point), I’m just stating what I think of the matter. The difference likely seems from our respective personal demographics, I bet.
“…let the players play”
Garcia and Sabathia need to heed this advice, not Dave.
That’s fun? Watching people be immature at each other is your idea of fun? You find talking about issues like this (CC/Bauer&Avi), instead of actual baseball topics to be necessary or even a legitimate topic to converse about? To each their own, I guess.
I’m 100% in agreement with Dave. The video of sign stealing is interesting and brings up valid questions and concerns, the rest is just players whining. Which, personally, I am not interested in. Apparently there is a market for that though, so what do I know.
NBA is full of “pettiness” like this and definitely the most popular sport right now. Like I said in a previous comment, the idea of “fun” depends on who you’re talking to
Where do you get that the NBA is the most popular sport right now? From what I can find on a cursory google search, it is third or lower.
I had the exact opposite response. “Play the game the right way” seems to be the subtext of complaints from Sabbathia, Garcia, the Angels, et al., whereas Dave seems to argue that these old shibboleths about “manly” behavior on the ballfield need to go.
Mhmm I can see why you think that. Interesting because really only Sabathia is the “old guy” in these situations.
“shibboleths”
[nods approvingly]
This is the exact opposite of “play-the-game-the-right-way-ism”.
I said this last week, but I think it is worth repeating. It seems to me that a lot of what is called “unwritten rules” is really just players whining like children.
Dave’s getting testy in his old age.
I like it.
Agree 100%, Dave. Great post.
I wonder if some of the fuss Garcia was making was an attempt to get some fastballs out of bauer when he wouldn’t have otherwise. I haven’t checked, but if I remember correctly, bauer challenged him with one right after he said something.
0-0 curveball (swing and miss), 0-1 fastball at 97 mph (late swing, foul), 0-2 curveball (swing and miss).
As others have said, it’s tough to be in favor of players showing more emotion on the field (of which I, and I think a lot of other fans love), and then not like it when they complain. Isn’t it all “showing emotion”?. I just don’t think you can take the good without the bad.
Also, although Dave mentioned that the Red Sox using an apple watch to steal signs was different, the first part of the article made it sound like it all was just players whining. Most of these instances were, but one was a team very clearly breaking the rules. They shouldn’t be lumped together.
Wait what? You can certainly be more in favor of players showing emotion and then not be in favor of certain displays of that emotion. Especially in these instances, where it is just petty complaints. Just because you want more of something doesn’t remove your ability to criticize the portions of it that you do not like.
Of course you can be critical of portions you don’t like. But can you be surprised?
Hyper-competitive athletes sometimes do odd things. Some are amusing and fun. Some are annoying. I would rather have both than none, and I’m not naive enough to think we can only have the good.
And when they do the bad, you call them out on it, like this article. Just like you call out anyone else who does bad things. Can you expect a player to never do childish things? No. Can calling them on acting like a child perhaps make them reflect on their actions? Yes.
Ok. That’s fine. But, man, that’s going to be a lot of articles.
“Certainly, the Red Sox case is a bit different than the other three, in that they actually broke a rule and committed a legitimate violation of league rules.”
Yes, it is. Which is why I’m confused by its inclusion. The point about whining is well-made; no need to conflate it with outright cheating.
(Although it’s inconceivable that a Boston-based sports franchise would use electronics to gain an illicit advantage over an opponent. Unprecedented!)
That’s the one part of this article that confused me as well. Also, Dave makes mention that the activity “broke a rule” and that it should be discouraged so that others don’t make use of it in the future, but doesn’t ever condemn the activity committed by Boston itself. I find that interesting.
Agreed. Seems strangely pro-Red Sox.
The Yankees tattling about it is the whining part, in my opinion, especially given that they are doing the same thing (allegedly).
Some people have tweeted a video of the Yankees dugout back in Anaheim having iPad’s in the dugout watching Live Feeds of the game. Having the iPad’s is legal, but live streaming is Illegal. I don’t know how the league has not caught that.
Here’s a link from that viral Yankee fan who shows it for those who have not seen it (He said at the end it’s legal, but I’m almost certain he’s wrong there)
https://twitter.com/JoezMcfLy/status/905240515142176770
I yearn for a simpler time when the only unwritten rule discussed ad nauseam was the Red Sox throwing at Manny Machado for the better part of a month.
The solution here isn’t less technology; it’s more.
Baseball codes information in gestures and hand signals because that used to be the fastest and most secure way to transmit that information. That’s not the case anymore, and baseball should be actively seeking out ways to improve communications, not arbitrarily muddle them. Earpieces have been in the NFL for decades.
Bonus for Rob Manfred: not running through the signs for every pitch and not having catchers come out to run through the signs on every mix-up would improve pace of play.
I never considered it, but you are absolutely right, in this day and age there is no reason for a third base coach to grab his crotch three times and tug his earlobe twice to signal a double steal.
They’re just giving the fans what they want.
You know, while they’re at it they can also eliminate pitching coach mound visits this way as well. The only issue is that sometimes the pitcher needs to respond back, so he’d also have to be awkwardly micced up all the time.
I agree with many of the comments here, but it does seem like sign-stealing is in a slightly different category than whining about whether someone throws too many curveballs or someone bunts unexpectedly.
There’s got to be a way to make it harder to actually steal signs via technology, and those should be pursued. On the other hand, if you start a pitcher who can’t field bunts the opponent should bunt all day until the pitcher gets pulled. It’s like the Arrieta-Montero game against the Nationals, and how the Nats kept running on them. That’s unequivocally winning between the lines.
In the small town league I play in, there is an unwritten rule against doing anything to put players in a position to be hurt. Most players have jobs that require healthy bodies and “We all have to go to work tomorrow”, guys remind each other.
Bunting against a pitcher with hurt legs/feet is one kind of risky behaviour, because a pitcher will often react instinctively to field a bunt and is then at risk to re-injure himself. It’s an invitation to an injured player to hurt himself even worse, which is not cool.
It makes sense to me that MLB would have a similar ethic. Those guys’ bodies are their livelihood. So I’m sympathetic to Sabathia, and I admire how the Yankees didn’t bunt against Schilling. Good for them.
The difference between your league and this professional league, MLB, is that the MLB is a professional league. These are their jobs. If Sabathia can’t go to work because he can’t do what his work requires, that’s different from you not wanting to dive for a shallow pop fly because you have to be on your feet at work tomorrow, and don’t want to be limping.
Oh my. Think of what Ty Cobb would say.
This comment has to be in jest…please let it not be serious.
i realize this is super random but this sequence kinda got me thinking a little about the evolution of the horrible internet comment…
1. the initial response. ‘wow this is pretty much the worst take ever’.
2. the troll consideration. ‘wait, this cant really be serious, no logical/intelligent person could possibly have this take. dude must be trolling.’
3. the troll reconsider. ‘wait, though. trolling doesnt really make sense here either bc the comment isnt really sarcastic or funny enough. also theres no inside joke or anything. maybe it actually is serious’.
4. the move on. ‘well, i dont really get whats going on here and ive already wasted a few brain cells and precious seconds of my life that i wont ever be able to get back so im just gonna give up on this part of the discussion’.
5. the white knight. chip locke comes in and gives the super obvious response that never needed to be said bc everybody with half a brain already undertands the clear counterargument. this comment serves to either a) gives the potential troll what he wants or b) furthers the horrible discussion, either which is really bad.
6. the sarcastic one-liner. stevel tries to save a horrible string of comments with some levity. ty cobb comments always do well but this feels more like a RAJ spot. either way, at least hes trying to make the situation better.
7. the outright troll accusation. in the spirit of the white knight johnny dickshot ofc absolutely has to say what everybody else is already thinking; ‘you cant be serious’, thereby wasting more virtual ink on stuff that didnt ever need to be said in the first place. troll accusation guy isnt on the level of awful post guy or white knight but hes on the next tier down for sure.
lol sorry. carry on…
Sabathia? Complaining? No wayyyy
100% on point, as usual Dave. It’s your team’s job to create a system for signs that cannot be picked, and you should always expect opposing teams to try to gain an edge.
As a coach at the 12-year old level, I would signal pitches for less experienced catchers to call. I designed a system that looked complicated to an outsider but was easy for my own team to decode. Another coach in the league once came to my team’s game to try to pick my signs from the stands. He was still unable to after 2+ hours.
If players or coaches think their signs are being stolen, just change them without saying anything. Once a hitter expects a fastball and gets a curve, he’ll stop listening to his sign-stealing teammates real quickly.
Have you sent your resume to the Yankees yet?
As to batters peeking at catcher location, there certainly IS a “reasonable expectation of privacy.” A tacit agreement not to peek has stood for over a century, like it or not. It may seem dumb when it causes a fracas, but to opine as if it’s not an integral part of the game seems a bit naive.
Which was traditionally enforced by setting up outside and throwing inside.
You can say it’s old-fashioned and inefficient for players to follow this tacit agreement, but it certainly exists.
I recall an instance from several years ago where Jamie Moyer asked a hitter what pitch he wanted, because Moyer was tired of watching his pitches get fouled off.
At least Sabathia’s whine is getting remarkably little fan support – even among the Yankee’s fanbase.
Amen Dave. This is baseball. There’s no whinging in baseball.
“Your lips are moving and you’re complaining. That’s whinging.”
Some people (apparently baseball players too) can be extremely petty over tiny, semi-insignificant things. If other people were to act petty like that we’d look at them differently and perhaps actively avoid them.
Right Dave. There’s no reason to complain when a player does something to help them win the game. So good on Juan Graterol for trying to intimidate the A’s out of stealing signs. Good on Sabathia for trying to shame Eduardo Nunez into abandoning the good strategy of bunting. And good on Avisail Garcia for trying to shit-talk Bauer into throwing a fastball.
All of these players opened their mouths for strategic reasons. Why criticize them as if all they’re doing is complaining?
I don’t know, I for one feel like I would be more likely to bunt on Sabathia after his comments. It’s like telling the whole world that, hey, I’m fat and slow and can’t field a bunt.
Eh. What’s he got to lose? Everyone knows he’s fat. It’s no secret he has a bad knee. All the teams have reports that say he’s slow, doesn’t field his position well, and managed to go a year without recording a putout.
You’re the one who says he has something to gain.
“When we were digging into the box today, the catcher kept staring at the hitters as they were digging into the box. That’s not a very comfortable feeling having the catcher staring at you. It’s a little disrespectful.”
I feel like I’m taking crazy pills. Catchers do this all the time. They have for years.
The Avisail Garcia thing probably had a lot to do with “macho-ism”. Garcia was essentially calling Bauer a pussy because he wouldn’t “man up” and play country hardball by throwing him a fastball. Obviously that is still a very stupid justification for what Garcia did, but I think it’s a more realistic and genuine explanation than just saying Garcia actually thinks hitters should be able to dictate what pitches they are thrown…
” That’s not a very comfortable feeling having the catcher staring at you.”
WTF, seriously?
Here is an unnecessary complaint made by a reader of an unnecessary complaint by a baseball writer about unnecessary complaints made by baseball players:
“This isn’t about baseball’s unwritten codes. This is just people being people.”
Now, my time (and theirs) could be much better spent, but we just couldn’t help ourselves. We are dumb animals.
Sassy Dave is the best Dave: “Last week, CC Sabathia got mad at Eduardo Nunez for laying down a bunt against him, because Sabathia’s knee hurts and he doesn’t think opponents should make him field his position when he’s not 100%.”
Next I suppose Jon Lester will complain about players taking huge leads against him.