An Improved KATOH Top-100 List
Back in January, I made some tweaks to my KATOH projection system, and have been using that updated model for the past several months. That model was unquestionably better than the previous versions, but it left me unsatisfied. While it addressed many of the flaws from previous iterations, there was still a lot of information it wasn’t taking into account.
I’ve been plugging away behind the scenes, and finally have a new version KATOH to share with the world. In what follows, you’ll find some detail on the new model, including its notable updates. I’ll be using this model in all of my prospect analysis from this point forward. Below, you’ll find a quick run-through of the notable tweaks, followed by an updated top-100 list.
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Added Features
Choosing projection window based on level, rather than age
In my previous model, I projected out based on a player’s age. If a player were 22, I projected him through age 28; If he were 24, I projected through age 30. This resulted in KATOH undervaluing players who were old for their level. The goal of KATOH is to predict the value a player will generate during his six-plus years of team control. By projecting a 22-year-old through age 28, KATOH failed to capture some of that value in cases where the 22-year-old was still in A-ball.
This time around, I chose my windows based on level, rather than age. I projected the next six seasons for players in Triple-A. I did the next seven for players in Double-A, eight for A-ballers, and nine for Rookie ballers.
Accounting for defensive performance, not just position
KATOH got significantly better when I added defensive position to the mix last winter, but there was still a lot for which I wasn’t accounting on the defensive side of things. Most notably, I was ignoring how good or bad a player was at the position he was playing. As we learned last decade when defensive metrics became a thing, the gap between a good defender and a bad defender at the same position can be huge. I’ve addressed this issue by incorporating minor-league defensive data compiled and published by Clay Davenport.
Somewhat surprisingly, the defensive metrics don’t add a ton of predictive value to what was already picked up by a players’ defensive position. A strong minor-league defensive performance will help a player’s projection, but won’t make a huge difference in most cases. It’s my guess that this has something to do with the fact that minor leaguers are often learning new positions, where they might be prone to making a lot of errors.
Incorporating ground-ball rates for pitchers
I also incorporated ground-ball rates for pitchers that I pulled from Clay Davenport’s site. With all else being equal, ground-ball pitchers have rosier outlooks than fly-ball pitchers, though not by a wide margin. In other words, ground-ball rates don’t add a ton of predictive value that isn’t already picked up by more conventional metrics.
Incorporating Baseball America top-100 lists
I’ve been conflicted about whether to include prospect rankings in my projections. There will always be important information the stats just don’t pick up that actual humans can. As a result, adding a variable for “BA rank” improves the models.
So why not include something that improves the projections? Well, for one, there’s potentially an issue of data consistency. The methodology behind 2016’s Baseball America rankings is unquestionably different than the methodology behind their 1991 rankings. They were done by different people who were using different information, so they aren’t necessarily consistent across years.
Secondly, there’s the philosophical question regarding what we want from KATOH. Incorporating scouting data makes KATOH a more accurate projection system, and makes it more useful as a stand-alone. But KATOH isn’t meant to act as a stand-alone. Rather, it’s best used as a tool for identifying potentially under- or overrated prospects. Including a variable for prospect ranking causes KATOH to shade closer to the industry consensus. This makes it more difficult to identify the guys KATOH likes and dislikes relative to the establishment. Perhaps I’m overthinking things, but I don’t think “more accurate” necessarily equates to “more useful” in this case.
Rather than picking a lane, I decided to create two parallel KATOHs: one that incorporates top-100 ranking and one that doesn’t. This is similar to what FiveThirtyEight does with their election forecasts, where they have a “polls only” model and one that also incorporates an index for economic performance. I will call the scouting-infused version “KATOH+” and will leave the original moniker to the one that excludes the BA rankings.
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Top-100 Lists
The models and lists I’m unveiling today aren’t perfect, but if held off on publishing projections until I had a system with which I was completely happy, I’d never write another article for FanGraphs. All in all, I’m content with what I have (for now, at least). I still have some ideas to improve things, but I’m saving them for another day.
This considers all players with at least 200 plate appearances or batters faced (plus Jose De Leon, since I know someone would ask). The figures in the far-right column refer to each player’s projected WAR over his first six seasons in the major leagues. As a reminder, these forecasts are not gospel. Take my math as seriously as you wish.
First, the version that considers stats only, and not prospect rankings.
| Rank | Player | Org | Position | KATOH |
| 1 | Alex Bregman | Astros | SS | 17.1 |
| 2 | Dylan Cozens | Phillies | OF | 14.1 |
| 3 | Jose De Leon | Dodgers | RHP | 10.4 |
| 4 | Joey Gallo | Rangers | 3B | 10.3 |
| 5 | Manuel Margot | Padres | OF | 10.0 |
| 6 | J.P. Crawford | Phillies | SS | 10.0 |
| 7 | Alex Verdugo | Dodgers | OF | 10.0 |
| 8 | Trea Turner | Nationals | SS | 9.6 |
| 9 | Ozzie Albies | Braves | 2B | 9.4 |
| 10 | Austin Meadows | Pirates | OF | 9.3 |
| 11 | Andrew Benintendi | Red Sox | OF | 9.1 |
| 12 | David Dahl | Rockies | OF | 9.0 |
| 13 | Jake Bauers | Rays | OF | 8.5 |
| 14 | Tyler Glasnow | Pirates | RHP | 8.1 |
| 15 | Lewis Brinson | Rangers | OF | 7.7 |
| 16 | Zack Granite | Twins | OF | 7.5 |
| 17 | Bradley Zimmer | Indians | OF | 7.4 |
| 18 | Alex Reyes | Cardinals | RHP | 7.3 |
| 19 | Jameson Taillon | Pirates | RHP | 7.3 |
| 20 | Edwin Rios | Dodgers | 3B | 7.3 |
| 21 | Orlando Arcia | Brewers | SS | 7.2 |
| 22 | Yoan Moncada | Red Sox | 2B | 7.1 |
| 23 | Tyler O’Neill | Mariners | OF | 7.0 |
| 24 | Willie Calhoun | Dodgers | 2B | 6.9 |
| 25 | Mitchell Haniger | Diamondbacks | OF | 6.9 |
| 26 | Rhys Hoskins | Phillies | 1B | 6.7 |
| 27 | Willy Adames | Rays | SS | 6.7 |
| 28 | Gavin Cecchini | Mets | SS | 6.4 |
| 29 | Blake Snell | Rays | LHP | 6.4 |
| 30 | Victor Robles | Nationals | OF | 6.3 |
| 31 | Trey Mancini | Orioles | 1B | 6.3 |
| (32) | Zach Eflin* | Phillies | RHP | 6.3 |
| 32 | Willson Contreras | Cubs | C | 6.2 |
| 33 | Derek Fisher | Astros | OF | 6.2 |
| (34) | Dalton Pompey* | Blue Jays | OF | 6.2 |
| 34 | Jose Berrios | Twins | RHP | 6.0 |
| 35 | Dansby Swanson | Braves | SS | 6.0 |
| 36 | Amed Rosario | Mets | SS | 5.9 |
| 37 | A.J. Reed | Astros | 1B | 5.9 |
| 38 | Kyle Tucker | Astros | OF | 5.8 |
| 39 | Luis Arraez | Twins | 2B | 5.7 |
| 40 | Harrison Bader | Cardinals | OF | 5.7 |
| 41 | Gary Sanchez | Yankees | C | 5.7 |
| 42 | Gleyber Torres | Cubs | SS | 5.6 |
| 43 | Andrew Toles | Dodgers | OF | 5.6 |
| 44 | Raul Mondesi | Royals | SS | 5.6 |
| 45 | Kevin Newman | Pirates | SS | 5.6 |
| 46 | Joe Musgrove | Astros | RHP | 5.5 |
| 47 | Luis Urias | Padres | 2B | 5.5 |
| 48 | Hunter Dozier | Royals | 3B | 5.5 |
| 49 | Reese Mcguire | Pirates | C | 5.5 |
| 50 | Josh Bell | Pirates | 1B | 5.4 |
| 51 | Cody Reed | Reds | LHP | 5.3 |
| 52 | Brandon Nimmo | Mets | OF | 5.2 |
| 53 | Garrett Stubbs | Astros | C | 5.2 |
| 54 | Albert Almora | Cubs | OF | 5.2 |
| 55 | Max Moroff | Pirates | 3B | 5.1 |
| 56 | Jesse Winker | Reds | OF | 5.1 |
| 57 | Boog Powell | Mariners | OF | 5.0 |
| 58 | Jorge Polanco | Twins | SS | 5.0 |
| 59 | Brock Stewart | Dodgers | RHP | 5.0 |
| 60 | Dan Vogelbach | Mariners | 1B | 5.0 |
| 61 | Rowdy Tellez | Blue Jays | 1B | 5.0 |
| 62 | Josh Hader | Brewers | LHP | 4.9 |
| 63 | Raimel Tapia | Rockies | OF | 4.9 |
| 64 | Benjamin Gamel | Yankees | OF | 4.9 |
| 65 | Cody Bellinger | Dodgers | 1B | 4.9 |
| 66 | Matt Chapman | Athletics | 3B | 4.9 |
| 67 | Adam Frazier | Pirates | OF | 4.8 |
| 68 | Kyle Higashioka | Yankees | C | 4.8 |
| (69) | Luis Severino* | Yankees | RHP | 4.7 |
| 69 | Samir Duenez | Royals | OF | 4.6 |
| 70 | Aaron Judge | Yankees | OF | 4.6 |
| 71 | Franklin Barreto | Athletics | SS | 4.6 |
| 72 | Chance Sisco | Orioles | C | 4.6 |
| 73 | Andrew Knapp | Phillies | C | 4.6 |
| 74 | Lucas Giolito | Nationals | RHP | 4.5 |
| 75 | Luke Weaver | Cardinals | RHP | 4.5 |
| 76 | Andrew Aplin | Astros | OF | 4.5 |
| 77 | Kyle Wren | Brewers | OF | 4.5 |
| 78 | Ryan Cordell | Rangers | OF | 4.4 |
| 79 | German Marquez | Rockies | RHP | 4.4 |
| 80 | Josh Naylor | Marlins | 1B | 4.4 |
| 81 | Stephen Gonsalves | Twins | LHP | 4.4 |
| 82 | Austin Barnes | Dodgers | C | 4.4 |
| 83 | David Paulino | Astros | RHP | 4.3 |
| 84 | Charlie Tilson | Cardinals | OF | 4.3 |
| 85 | Reynaldo Lopez | Nationals | RHP | 4.3 |
| 86 | Eloy Jimenez | Cubs | OF | 4.3 |
| 87 | Oscar Hernandez | Diamondbacks | C | 4.3 |
| 88 | JaCoby Jones | Tigers | SS | 4.2 |
| 89 | Jeff Hoffman | Rockies | RHP | 4.2 |
| 90 | Rafael Devers | Red Sox | 3B | 4.2 |
| 91 | Jordan Patterson | Rockies | OF | 4.2 |
| 92 | Chad Green | Yankees | RHP | 4.2 |
| (93) | Dilson Herrera* | Mets | 2B | 4.1 |
| 93 | Daniel Palka | Twins | OF | 4.1 |
| 94 | Sean Reid-Foley | Blue Jays | RHP | 4.1 |
| (95) | Tim Anderson* | White Sox | SS | 4.1 |
| 95 | Nick Williams | Phillies | OF | 4.0 |
| 96 | Cody Reed | Diamondbacks | LHP | 3.9 |
| 97 | Brent Honeywell | Rays | RHP | 3.9 |
| 98 | Max Povse | Braves | RHP | 3.9 |
| 99 | Richard Urena | Blue Jays | SS | 3.9 |
| 100 | Tyler Austin | Yankees | OF | 3.9 |
| 104 | Phil Bickford** | Giants | RHP | 3.8 |
| 111 | Nick Delmonico** | White Sox | 1B | 3.6 |
| 133 | Sherman Johnson** | Angels | 2B | 3.3 |
**Not in top 100, but top prospect in organization.
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This next list incorporates stats, as well as rankings from Baseball America’s Midseason Top 100.
| Rank | Player | Org | Position | KATOH |
| 1 | Alex Bregman | Astros | SS | 17.7 |
| 2 | J.P. Crawford | Phillies | SS | 16.5 |
| 3 | Trea Turner | Nationals | SS | 15.1 |
| 4 | Andrew Benintendi | Red Sox | OF | 14.4 |
| 5 | Yoan Moncada | Red Sox | 2B | 13.0 |
| 6 | Austin Meadows | Pirates | OF | 13.0 |
| 7 | Alex Reyes | Cardinals | RHP | 12.4 |
| 8 | Manuel Margot | Padres | OF | 12.1 |
| 9 | Dansby Swanson | Braves | SS | 12.0 |
| 10 | Joey Gallo | Rangers | 3B | 11.9 |
| 11 | Jose De Leon | Dodgers | RHP | 11.8 |
| 12 | Ozzie Albies | Braves | 2B | 11.8 |
| 13 | Tyler Glasnow | Pirates | RHP | 11.7 |
| 14 | David Dahl | Rockies | OF | 11.1 |
| 15 | Victor Robles | Nationals | OF | 10.2 |
| 16 | Kyle Tucker | Astros | OF | 10.1 |
| 17 | Lewis Brinson | Rangers | OF | 9.9 |
| 18 | Orlando Arcia | Brewers | SS | 9.9 |
| 19 | Bradley Zimmer | Indians | OF | 9.9 |
| 20 | Alex Verdugo | Dodgers | OF | 9.8 |
| 21 | Lucas Giolito | Nationals | RHP | 9.3 |
| 22 | Jake Bauers | Rays | OF | 8.7 |
| 23 | Dylan Cozens | Phillies | OF | 8.4 |
| 24 | Josh Bell | Pirates | 1B | 8.3 |
| 25 | Willy Adames | Rays | SS | 8.3 |
| 26 | Amed Rosario | Mets | SS | 8.2 |
| 27 | Jose Berrios | Twins | RHP | 8.1 |
| 28 | Joe Musgrove | Astros | RHP | 7.2 |
| 29 | Gleyber Torres | Cubs | SS | 7.1 |
| 30 | Zack Granite | Twins | OF | 7.1 |
| 31 | Jameson Taillon | Pirates | RHP | 7.0 |
| 32 | Kevin Newman | Pirates | SS | 6.8 |
| 33 | Tyler O’Neill | Mariners | OF | 6.6 |
| 34 | Gary Sanchez | Yankees | C | 6.6 |
| 35 | Brent Honeywell | Rays | RHP | 6.5 |
| 36 | Willie Calhoun | Dodgers | 2B | 6.3 |
| 37 | Jesse Winker | Reds | OF | 6.3 |
| 38 | Blake Snell | Rays | LHP | 6.3 |
| 39 | Josh Hader | Brewers | LHP | 6.3 |
| 40 | Willson Contreras | Cubs | C | 6.3 |
| 41 | Rafael Devers | Red Sox | 3B | 6.2 |
| 42 | Cody Bellinger | Dodgers | 1B | 6.1 |
| 43 | A.J. Reed | Astros | 1B | 6.0 |
| 44 | Raul Mondesi | Royals | SS | 6.0 |
| 45 | Jorge Polanco | Twins | SS | 5.9 |
| (46) | Zach Eflin* | Phillies | RHP | 5.9 |
| 46 | Edwin Rios | Dodgers | 3B | 5.8 |
| 47 | Franklin Barreto | Athletics | SS | 5.7 |
| 48 | Eloy Jimenez | Cubs | OF | 5.7 |
| 49 | Gavin Cecchini | Mets | SS | 5.5 |
| 50 | Brandon Nimmo | Mets | OF | 5.5 |
| 51 | Aaron Judge | Yankees | OF | 5.5 |
| 52 | Derek Fisher | Astros | OF | 5.4 |
| 53 | Kyle Wren | Brewers | OF | 5.3 |
| 54 | Max Moroff | Pirates | 3B | 5.3 |
| 55 | Reynaldo Lopez | Nationals | RHP | 5.3 |
| 56 | Jeff Hoffman | Rockies | RHP | 5.3 |
| 57 | Brendan Rodgers | Rockies | SS | 5.3 |
| 58 | Nick Williams | Phillies | OF | 5.2 |
| 59 | Cody Reed | Reds | LHP | 5.2 |
| 60 | Phil Bickford | Giants | RHP | 5.1 |
| 61 | Raimel Tapia | Rockies | OF | 5.1 |
| 62 | Luis Arraez | Twins | 2B | 5.1 |
| 63 | Reese Mcguire | Pirates | C | 5.1 |
| 64 | Luis Urias | Padres | 2B | 5.1 |
| 65 | Harrison Bader | Cardinals | OF | 5.0 |
| 66 | David Paulino | Astros | RHP | 5.0 |
| 67 | Adam Frazier | Pirates | OF | 5.0 |
| 68 | Anderson Espinoza | Padres | RHP | 4.9 |
| (69) | Dalton Pompey* | Blue Jays | OF | 4.9 |
| 69 | Dan Vogelbach | Mariners | 1B | 4.9 |
| 70 | Benjamin Gamel | Yankees | OF | 4.9 |
| 71 | Luke Weaver | Cardinals | RHP | 4.9 |
| 72 | Andrew Toles | Dodgers | OF | 4.8 |
| 73 | Clint Frazier | Indians | OF | 4.7 |
| 74 | Garrett Stubbs | Astros | C | 4.7 |
| 75 | Brock Stewart | Dodgers | RHP | 4.7 |
| 76 | Boog Powell | Mariners | OF | 4.6 |
| 77 | Josh Naylor | Marlins | 1B | 4.6 |
| 78 | Rhys Hoskins | Phillies | 1B | 4.5 |
| 79 | Mitch Keller | Pirates | RHP | 4.5 |
| (80) | Luis Severino* | Yankees | RHP | 4.4 |
| 80 | Chance Sisco | Orioles | C | 4.4 |
| 81 | Charlie Tilson | Cardinals | LHP | 4.4 |
| 82 | Trey Mancini | Orioles | 1B | 4.4 |
| 83 | Jorge Mateo | Yankees | SS | 4.3 |
| 84 | Austin Barnes | Dodgers | C | 4.3 |
| 85 | Nick Gordon | Twins | SS | 4.3 |
| 86 | Sean Reid-Foley | Blue Jays | RHP | 4.2 |
| 87 | Albert Almora | Cubs | OF | 4.2 |
| 88 | Andrew Knapp | Phillies | C | 4.2 |
| 89 | Chad Green | Yankees | RHP | 4.1 |
| 90 | Francis Martes | Astros | RHP | 4.1 |
| 91 | Andrew Aplin | Astros | OF | 4.1 |
| 92 | Hunter Dozier | Royals | 3B | 4.0 |
| 93 | Mitchell Haniger | Diamondbacks | OF | 4.0 |
| 94 | Adalberto Mejia | Giants | LHP | 3.9 |
| 95 | Samir Duenez | Royals | OF | 3.9 |
| 96 | Jordan Patterson | Rockies | OF | 3.9 |
| (97) | Tim Anderson* | White Sox | SS | 3.9 |
| 97 | Jose Peraza | Reds | 2B | 3.8 |
| 98 | Jake Thompson | Phillies | RHP | 3.8 |
| 99 | Amir Garrett | Reds | LHP | 3.7 |
| 100 | Tony Kemp | Astros | 2B | 3.7 |
| 156 | Sherman Johnson** | Angels | 2B | 2.8 |
| 168 | Adam Engel** | White Sox | OF | 2.6 |
**Not in top 100, but top prospect in organization.
Note: The KATOH+ top 100 list I originally published was slightly inaccurate. My code was not correctly pulling BA rankings for hitters at the Low-A level, which caused the system to ignore the fact that Victor Robles, Kyle Tucker, Eloy Jimenez, Brendan Rodgers and Josh Naylor were top 100 prospects. As a result, these prospects were underrated in the second list. The issue has been resolved.
Chris works in economic development by day, but spends most of his nights thinking about baseball. He writes for Pinstripe Pundits, FanGraphs and The Hardball Times. He's also on the twitter machine: @_chris_mitchell None of the views expressed in his articles reflect those of his daytime employer.
Can’t believe Cistulli’s given up on the Angels’ top prospect.
Interesting that Giolito gets a massive bump up the list only when the BA rankings are accounted for.
His minor league stats aren’t that great
Does K% have a reduced role in the new KATOH? It looks like some high strikeout prospects seem to be ranked a tad higher than I would have expected. From your older commentary, I believe K% was a strong indicator of future performance at higher levels.
It does play a smaller role this time around, particularly in the high minors. It’s hard to say definitively why this is given all of the tweaks I made to the models. But my best guess is that strikeout rate was previously acting as a proxy for some of the omitted defensive value before (Picked up not be defensive metrics and also by me breaking out OF into CF, LF, RF). Good defenders tend to be slap hitters rather than power hitters, and it seems KATOH was capturing future defensive value using what it knew. In this version, it appears strikeout rate is more closely aligned with a hitter’s contact ability. The commentary about K% being a strong indicator still applies, but it isn’t as big of a red flag if everything else looks good.
I agree with Tony, this model looks like it’s not placing enough emphasis on K%.
I think something about Bradley Zimmer seems overrated and the K% is a real red flag. 23yr/7mo in AA, .252 avg/28% K% isn’t anything to rave about despite all the ‘toolsyness’ all the scouts rave about.
agreed.
I almost think zimmer must be a simple data entry error. his numbers don’t seem to be anywhere near good enough in any respect to produce this kind of rank.
Zimmer is not a mistake. The strikeouts are concerning, but he has literally everything else going for him. Lots of power (not just homers, but doubles and triples too), tons of steals, walks, decent CF defense, and a 6-foot-5 frame. KATOH also considers his 2015 season, when the strikeouts weren’t as concerning. Plus, he’s a college bat, so the fact that he’s already 23 isn’t super concerning.
It isn’t concerning, but it absolutely should discount the value of his production in AA. A 21 year old with a 137 wRC+ in AA is impressive whereas a 23 year old doing it is not. To my eye, the adjustments you made to this new model were a large step in the wrong direction.
It does discount his value just like his K% does, but it’s all about trade-offs. Zimmer has negatives, which is why he isn’t an elite prospect. But the other strengths I mentioned largely outweigh them.
Zimmer is higher than in previous models because he happens to benefit from the adjustments I made: most notably better accounting for OF defense. This version still puts a lot of weight on K%. But in the past, KATOH was missing some information, and seemed to compensate by assuming that high K%=bad defense, which obviously isn’t always true.
At this point I feel Zimmer’s pathway towards the majors will diverge towards that of Jason Heyward or Jake Marisnick. Both are tall/lanky OF, plus fielding, great .spd, .200-ish iso, in minors. But biggest difference was Heyward K’ed only 9-14% in A+/AA as a 19yr old, while Marisnick K’d ~20% in AA. Eventually AAA/MLB pitching will catch up to Zimmer’s 25-28 K%, and weak contact could jeopardize his career.
So how do you handle someone like AJ Reed who wasn’t eligible for the latest BA list since he was in the majors? I see he is lower on the ranking incorporating the prospect rankings (not sure what the default is for players like him), but he would most definitely be ranked higher had he been eligible.
Good point. The default for Reed is that he is unranked (which he technically was, but not for the usual reason). So he’s sold a bit short by KATOH+.
How does KATOH deal with a guy liike Albies who is 19, crushed it at AA, then was mediocre at AAA, and is now crushing it again at AA? Does the ordering matter? As in, would his ranking change if he had just recently been called up to AAA and was struggling?
No, the ordering does not play a role. KATOH actually doesn’t see a huge difference between what he did at AA and AAA. His AA numbers were more encouraging, but not by much since they were mostly BABIP-driven.
A rigorous data analysis which both recognizes the ignored amazing performances of Blue Jays prospects Rowdy Tellez and Richard Urena AND sees that every red sox prospect is (over)rated significantly above their actual performance level (most especially devers and espinoza)?
Be still my beating heart. I love you, Chris Mitchell.
I analyzed the data, that the Blue Jays will ignore the opportunity to Netherlands Antilles and Richard Urena and prospects of all carbon monoxide (because) in its ability (such as Devers and Espinosa)?
My heart was still beating. I love you, Chris Mitchell.
Rowdy Tellez to Dutch Antilles.
Fascinating.
Rafael Devers has so far been a clone of Miguel Cabrera as a prospect. Even if Cabrera hadn’t continued on to becoming a superstar, there was an expectation that he would be a quality power bat in the major leagues, so “they” were right. So far, the treatment of Devers in most rankings has been similar to that of Cabrera’s, so you can’t say that he’s overrated on the basis of getting preferential treatment (as Cabrera got the same treatment) or that the similar treatment given Cabrera as a prospect was wrong (seeing as it was right and all).
Any ranking/projection system that is bearish on Devers is a system that still needs significant refinement. To be fair, such prospects are rather unique and so not the best inaccuracy for the creators of a system to take aim at, but rating him low is nonetheless “wrong” given baseball history.
If such an objectively still-flawed (but no system is perfect, this isn’t a criticism) system makes your heart flutter, that says more about you than about the relative value of said system.
any system that doesn’t consider devers the next cabrera is fatally flawed.
got it.
No one cheerleaded Devers more last year than I did, and even I find this comment to be ridiculous. I watched him in person last season and this season, and I can tell you that Devers has legitimately taken a step back as a prospect. I was very excited about him last year because he had such an advanced, balanced approach at the plate such that he rarely got fooled and drove the ball the other way with authority. Sometime during the off-season he made adjustments to his swing that opened up his front foot and hip, presumably to sell out for pull power. That was a huge mistake in my view, as he surrendered his control of the outer portion and diminished his ability to adjust to off-speed pitches.
14.1 for Dylan Cozens whaaaaaat?
Seriously, as a Phillies fan I love it. I guess .280/.366/.573 with 25 HR and 17 SB in 413 PAs at AA from a 22-year-old 6’6″, 235lb outfielder will do that for you though.
I see his K% is 28.8, which seems too high, but I guess KATOH sees that power/speed display from a guy his size and a 12.1% BB rate and says “physically, the sky’s the limit”?
Yeah, the strikeouts are a concern, but he’s a positive almost everywhere else. That type of power/speed combo is pretty rare, he gets point for his size. And, though he gets knocked for being a RF, he grades out well there.
I think everyone that has heard of Zach Granite is impressed with the stats….but 16th? Wow.
Steve Stone is most impressed with his name.
Sounds like the Flintstones name for the new star pitcher on the Arizona Diamondrocks.
I’ll admit I had never even heard of him until two weeks ago. So yes, that feels high to me too. But he’s posted elite contact and stolen base numbers and above-average CF defense as a 23-year-old in Double-A. He won’t need to add much power if he keeps that up.
A couple interesting Rockies notes: KATOH loved Kevin Padlo in the offseason and thought that trade was even worse than it looked on paper (it also assumed Dickerson and McGee would both not forget how to play baseball, which, oops), now it likes German Marquez just as much as it liked Padlo.
It also grades Jordan Patterson pretty highly (for Jordan Patterson standards) but doesn’t register Brendan Rodgers at all, not even in the rankings factoring in BA. He was generally given a higher ceiling than either Swanson or the Breg Man when that draft was happening. I’m less complaining about his absence and more just surprised.
Rodgers should have been on the KATOH+ list, but was left off due to an error on my part. See the note at the bottom. Still, the fact that he didn’t make the top 100 without the “BA Top 100 bump” is telling.
But what it tells us probably has less to do with Rodgers than with your newest model. He’s a 19 year old running a .193 ISO and 132 wRC+ as a shortstop in Low-A. Isan Diaz has slightly better numbers at a similar age, while no other shortstop in Low-A even comes remotely close to those two. I’m a fan of KATOH, but you really need to scrap this version.
Rodgers in Diaz have hit well, but have done so with iffy strikeout rates (especially Diaz). For a hitter in Low-A, that’s a red flag. They also both grade out as below-average at SS. They’re certainly interesting prospects, but they’re also flawed Low-A prospects.
Rodgers’ K% isn’t “iffy.” The only guy in A-ball who has a similar ISO and age with a lower K% is Francisco Mejia, and his ISO is BABIP-fueled. I also don’t know why you would have Diaz or especially Rodgers grading out as below average defensively. That doesn’t fit the scouting reports I’ve read, particularly for Rodgers. Brendan Rodgers is not a “flawed Low-A” prospect, he’s a guy that is dramatically underrated by a very flawed prospect model.
Great stuff Chris! I’ve been waiting for the KATOH 100 to come out!
Does your model incorporate platoon splits for hitters? I’d think platoon splits would be indicative of future MLB performance–is it?
I have not yet tried to incorporate platoon splits. I am not sold that it would be indicative of big league success, but it is one of the things on my radar to try.
Does it factor handedness at all? I would imagine marginal LHB prospects would underperform the WAR of marginal RHB prospects, on average, simply bc full-time starter status is more difficult to achieve as a left-handed batter.
Tested that out, but found little evidence that it matters in most cases. All else being equal, lefties have a slight advantage in the low minors, but it’s small enough not to worry about.
Urias!
Can you break out offensive WAR and defensive WAR?
I agree this would be interesting. Unfortunately, there’s no simple way to do that breakout. The way KATOH’s designed, it spits out one number (cumulative WAR), rather than coming up with individual components that are added up. I’ve actually thought about building separate models for offense and defense and then adding them, but don’t have that capability right now.
Cool. I think it would be worth the effort, esp. since you’re using defensive skill as an input now.
In backtesting, how much better was KATOH+ than KATOH?
I plan to address this in a post in a couple of weeks.
Chris, I think KATOH is fantastic and give you total props for undertaking this project that is brutally hard. When I look at KATOH projections they often seem low. There will be way more than 44 guys who are currently KATOH eligible who will contribute more than 1 WAR a season to their teams while under team control, yes? And way more than 9 who will offer 2?
I guess two questions if you don’t mind taking the time:
1. What percentage the WAR we might expect KATOH eligible players to put up in their team control years is accounted for in this list (i.e. solve for x; x=Total war in right hand column above/likely amount of WAR all current KATOH eligible prospects will put up in their team control years).
2. Do you think KATOH is more valuable as a prediction or comparison tool? I.e. should I focus on the fact that Dansby Swanson is only projected to be a 2 win player (which would make him basically a league average shortstop) or the fact that he is likely a top 10 future contributor during his team control years?
Thanks!
I agree they “feel” low, but there is evidence that this distribution is about right for prospect lists. Jeff Zimmerman looked at old Baseball America lists and found that WAR = 2.25.x (BA Rank)^(-.45). Plugging into that formula, the # 10 prospect can be expected to earn 9 WAR, #50-4.3 WAR, #100-3.2 WAR. I think part of it is that prospects fail much more often than most people think, since nobody remembers all of the back-end top 100 guys who become bench players. And part of it is that some productive big leaguers weren’t on anybody’s radar at all.
1. That’s an interesting question. Not sure, but I’m curious now, and will crunch the numbers.
2. I’d say more as a comparison tool. I like to think of the projections as an “expected value”, keeping in mind there’s a chance for much more, but a bigger chance of minimal value. While some prospects turn into stars, many more become average big leaguers, bench players or complete busts. Plus, even the ones who do become stars usually don’t stay at that level for the full six years.
But isn’t the point of KATOH to identify more of those future major league contributors that are slipping through the cracks of traditional prospect lists? If you’re not identifying more future WAR than those lists, then you’re just trading players that the former misses with players that the latter misses.
Using Zimmerman’s formula, the top 100 can be expected to produce 547 WAR in total. Excluding the non-prospect eligible players, my KATOH and KATOH+ top 100 projections add up to 610 WAR and 679 WAR, respectively. This is very back of the envelope, but suggests that KATOH is identifying some of those players.
I wasn’t clear as I should have been, but my point is that most prospects just don’t return a ton of value. After all, there can only be a fixed number of above-average players.
Gotcha. Thanks.
Hmm. So this suggests that if anything KATOH might be too optimistic on the whole?
Oh and if a team Kris Bryant or David prices a guy for 6 and 2/3 years of team control I assume KATOH doesn’t account for that, the projection assumes 6 years on the dot?
Awesome. Thanks!
Sorry if I missed this somewhere, but KATOH is still only using current-season stats, right?
Nope, it uses two years. So it also takes into account 2015 performance.
You may have covered this before, and if so, I’m sorry! Are there adjustments made for park/league effects in the model’s inputs?
This question is motivated by thinking about projecting players coming from the PCL, for example, known to be a big offensive booster.
It accounts for league effects, but not individual parks yet. I will be addressing that piece soon.