Baseball Is Amazing
Congratulations to Ubaldo Jimenez, and whatever the most extreme opposite of congratulations is to Tony LaRussa.
Dave is the Managing Editor of FanGraphs.
Congratulations to Ubaldo Jimenez, and whatever the most extreme opposite of congratulations is to Tony LaRussa.
Dave is the Managing Editor of FanGraphs.
Condolences, I believe, is the word.
Condolences? He did it to himself. If anything he should be getting scathing remarks and should be torn apart by the front office.
Eh, I think people are blowing these things way out of proportion. Firstly, managers are generally running a double strategy in these late inning games: try to win it in the next couple of innings and make sure they don’t screw up their chances of winning other games too bad.
La Russa seemed to be heavily leaning towards the latter, which is fine. Is there another serious contender for their division? Bueler? Bueler? The Cardinals have gotten better, the Cubs have gotten worse, older, and less healthy, and the Brewers are only mildly improved. It seemed like his whole strategy in late game management was to place as little extra strain on his players as possible and assuming they would still be likely to win the game. Which honestly, was not a bad bet, statistically.
Sure, he ends up looking like a dummy when the game runs on for 20 innings because you were trying to avoid working an extra pitcher or hitter- but how often do 20 inning games really come around? Had he known it would run that long, I highly doubt he would have used up his extra hitters replacing other slots than the one behind Pujols. Just looking at each of his “great sins” in the game:
1. Taking our Holliday – He had to take him out. The guy did not look right all day long. I didn’t even know until after the fact that he had some stomach issue, and anyone could tell he wasn’t playing right. Not worth risking gassing him for a couple days just to keep him for a couple extra innings. If you got to take the guy out, and you need a guy to pitch- it doesn’t seem unreasonable to sub a pitcher in for the guy who needs to ride pine.
2. Leaving the pitchers batting behind Pujols – This prevented them from locking up the game. With that said, they used up basically all their bench guys by then except the backup catcher (and you never want to risk having no catcher). So basically, this now looks sucky in hindsight. But only in hindsight. It didn’t matter when you subbed because the game was likely to be over before this lineup spot came around again.
3. Taking out Rasmus – This was the real mistake, in my opinion. By blowing an extra outfielder, a bench player was lost that might have hit behind Pujols. But again, we’re criticizing things that were meant to win in the next 2 innings that came back to bite the Cards like 3 and 4 innings later.
4. Not pitching Lohse – I’m sure if it went on another couple innings, he would have. He clearly just didn’t want to and I can see legitimate health reasons why he shouldn’t have.
So in my opinion, the only truly bad move was taking out Rasmus (unless I missed an injury or something). The Holliday stuff seems like a prudent response to an unlikely situation. Sure, you could say that he should have pinch-hit for Motte with their backup catcher but that guy hit for 0.250 in AAA. You’re probably better off sparing yourself using an extra pitcher.
So what exactly warrants scathing again? The fact that he didn’t blow one his starters for an extra 10% winning percentage on a game he was likely to win anyways? That he played the odds that he wouldn’t go through his full lineup in an extra inning game? That he used up all his bench players on the presumption that the game would end, then had to take out Holliday because the guy was playing like a zombie? If you look at the odds inning-by-inning, most of these moves don’t look particularly bad in my book. They mainly only look bad knowing the consequences later in the game (which was unlikely to have occurred at all).
B N — Sending Ludwick running with Pujols at the plate was a big mistake. He looked like he might have been safe on the replay, but why risk it? He’s not a particularly good base stealer, and Pujols hits more extra base hits than just about anyone else, maybe ever.
I agree with just about everything you said, but this has to be included too, in my opinion.
Gotta agree with Cardinals645 on this one. Ludwick running, regardless as to whether or not LaRussa sent him or not was a poor decision and ultimately falls on the manager regardless because his player isn’t listening if he ran on his own choice.
Pulling out Rasmus was another bad idea, though I do agree with you on not pitching Lohse. It’s never a good idea to burn through your SP’s to try to get an extra inning win unless you’ve got something on the line. But no RP went more than 2.1 IP the entire game, why wasn’t the long man in the bullpen left in? Hawksworth should have been given the chance to pitch an extra inning.
It’s far better to burn an extra bullpen arm for a day or two then to lose a game with third basemen pitching.
Flagellations, maybe?
B N is the only rational / logical poster in this thread.
Has a single baseball game ever cost both managers their job? Because this one should.
Right. A 25 year veteran manager with one of the best winning percentages of all time should be fired because of a bad play.
I’m sorry, I forgot Tony LaRussa has absolutely no history whatsoever of over-managing and costing his team wins. Track record only gets you so far. If he’s going to let his ego infect his managerial decisions, he should go.
Tony’s been overmanaging since he was in diapers. Actually, pretty much all managers make a bunch of apparently mind numbingly stupid moves over the course of a full season. We except that because, in all likelihood, there is a greater importance in being able to organize and hold together a team of 25 grown men held in close quarters and tense situations over a a 200 day span than making in game decisions. And Tony likely is one of the best at doing those other managerial things. Ergo, unless you can show that his bad in game decision making outweighs his other qualities (which is contradicted by his excellent career winning percentage) I see no reason why he should go.
Yeah if he is not going to get fired for driving while intoxicated then he certainly won’t get fired for managing like he is intoxicated.
I agree with Viva…
Most managers are horrible game runners… but their main ob is too keep 25 guys happy and playing well…
I am a Tigers fan and HATE almost ever decision Leyland makes…. but his players are happy…
I don’t think that Tony should be fired over his decisions in last night’s game either, but I would also hope that stuff like manager winning percentage and (presumed) personality management wouldn’t be invoked as arguments on this side of the broadcast booth 🙁
What are the odds of a game going 20 innings….you can’t fault anyone in this stituation…expect for the Mets batters who couldn’t hit the Felipee Lopez. Seriously.
Why was Lohse playing left field having thrown no pitches? The announcers were acknowledging it, but by the time I tuned in they never bothered to explain why he was there.
tony la russa pinch-hit for the last reliever (franklin) with the backup C, bryan anderson, without any remaining position players or relievers available. so they had to put a position player in to pitch, and i guess he didn’t want to leave anderson in.
That explains why the 3rd basemen were pitching, which I understood. What I don’t get is why a starting pitcher was playing left field without ever throwing a pitch. If he had pitched and they had no one to take him out for, then I could understand, but as best I could tell he never pitched and I’m not sure when he got put in.
I think he didn’t want him pitching tonight. He actually pitched 2 games ago, so I guess was considered unavailable to pitch, but available to play OF.
Cardinals were out of position players and non-starting pitchers, and LaRussa didn’t want to use a starter to pitch. So Lohse went to left and Lopez went to the mound.
Learn2Scroll, me. Thanks!
Why did La Russa ever even think about having a pitcher hit behind Pujols. When would you EVER do that?
What was dumber, putting a pitcher behind Albert Pujols or having Ludwick try to steal in front of the most likely guy to get an XBH in the majors?
I have nothing to confirm this, but i have a feeling Ludwick sent himself. he had such a big jump that it’s possible he thought he had a stolen base guaranteed. I just can’t imagine LaRussa would send him.
Manuel’s decision to bunt with Castillo was arguably the worst of the game. there were 0 outs, Joe Mather was throwing 70mph and couldn’t find the strike zone, and Reyes was on 1st. Castillo bunted at a ball out of the zone on a 1-0 count. I couldn’t believe what I was seeing.
@jsp2014-If that was Ludwick’s decision alone, we will probably know tonight. He will either be riding the pine for a game or batting somewhere less cozy than in front of Albert. If he went on his own, that was a monumentally stupid decision. Even if he successfully stole, the Mets would just IBB Albert and try to get a DP out of the pitcher.
Because it was unlikely that the lineup spot would come up again. It’ll generally take a couple innings to get through the line up, and by then somebody will generally have scored a run. And they couldn’t sub out the pitchers behind him because their bench was basically used up. Oops. Somebody should have handed La Russa that crystal ball that would tell him that his pinch hitter would be more valuable 2 (and 4) innings from then rather than in the current inning.
I was at this game. The managerial fail was EPIC. Beyond epic. I desired to asplode LaRussa’s house. It was an awesome game in so many ways, but LaRussa was just… horrible, awful, terrible, insert demeaning adjective.
. . . no-good, very bad game?
One of my favorite childhood books
Doubleswitching Holliday out of the game bit them in the butt so many times. LOL.
Yea… it was pretty pathetic.
I mean, I guess it’s something you can do since most likely his spot won’t come up again, but you can’t do it and then not have anyone else left to double-switch the pitcher’s spot out from behind Pujols.
All the talk of “protecting” Albert so he can’t have the bat taken out of his hands and then this game comes along and every other inning Pujols is walked only to have a pitcher striking out right behind him? Jeez.
To be fair, Holliday looked awful at the plate during that game. He was ill, and probably wasn’t cleared to play more than 9 innings.
Still looks dumb to me though.
Another dumb thing included waiting on until the 19th for KRod. btw what was KRod’s pitch count? Is that related to why he didn’t pitch a 2nd inning?
I think he threw 24 or 25 pitches, but I saw mention that he had warmed up several times and may have been “gassed”… The question is why warm him up – sure Mets get a runner on base and he scores you want to be ready but you could easily stall or have the previous pitcher take the mound and then pull him 1 pitch into the inning.
According to this http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/news/story?id=5107466 K-Rod warmed up 10 different times and threw over 100 pitches doing so. It’s probably not a good thing for your closer to be gassed before he comes into the game. I also wonder if Ryan Franklin really can’t pitch more than 1 inning these days. He was a starter for three years in Seattle.
The only reason he was “gassed” was because Manuel didn’t want to bring him in in a tie game because he wouldn’t get a save that way. He should have been in the game much earlier than he was.
You really summed it up Dave. Today was a day for the ages.
I really wish they could have cut to the No No on either Fox or MLB. Shame. Fowler’s catch was astounding.
Ludwick played like he was on acid. It looked like he got in, but he had no business running. His mad dash for home in the 16th (I think it was, it’s all a blur) was absolutely retarded. Larussa managed thinking of October. It felt as though he really was trying to give The Mets the game to get it over with.
Manuel managed as if he might not have a job on Monday if he comes home having lost 5 of 6. He shouldn’t have one either way. The Castillo bunt was mind boggling. Pelfrey had done his throwing work earlier that day and should not have been used. He might be the key to their season. To mess with his career is irresponsible, even more so in light of his recent success.
Can Meija please be sent back to AAA to work on his career as a starter. This kid has a ton of talent and they’re (Minaya & Co.) retarding his growth in a desperate effort to keep their jobs. Lets not even get started with the 1B situation… Really sickening to be a Mets fan right now… sorry for the rant. The Mets do that to me.
Lost in that mess timeless mess was the incredible pitching of both Santana and young Garcia. Garcia really impressed me. I believe he allowed two hard hit balls (both fly outs) all day. He really seemed to hit hit corners. When they made contact it was weak. Nice to see Johan in good form. Really a pleasure to watch him perform.
The Castillo bunt was confusing. Was there something wrong with him? He seemed hobbled and I was confused why he was even on the field. This seems to indicate to me that Reyes’ legs aren’t right yet. Otherwise he wouldn’t have needed help to get to 2B.
they were bunting against the vaunted 76 mph gunslinger Felipee Lopez. Nuts…. but, by the 18 who gives a shit…just try anything.
If Ludwick was playing as if he were on acid, wouldn’t he have thrown the no-no?
Dock Ellis 4 Life
There also was a near triple play in the LA/SF game on a ball hit to the leftfielder who may a diving attempt but couldn’t make the catch. With runners on 1st and 2nd, he threw to 3rd for the force out, who threw to second for another forceout (but for some reason the umpires didn’t rule an out on) and then threw to first and nearly got the batter who was lolligagging up the first base line.
So what should have been 2 outs and was very nearly a triple play, ended up just being one out.
I’m really looking forward to seeing Lohse’s UZR numbers.
He actually made a pretty good play.
if i were a mets fan, i’s be screaming for manuel’s head right now. as a phillies fan, i want him gone. he just sucks at baseball.
That was an unbelievably poorly managed game. LaRussa has made a career by looking the other way while his stars juiced, this game just showed what an unbelievably poor manager he actually is. Epic, epic fail. Pulling Matt Holliday (because of flu-like symptoms from yesterday?????), if you have to pull Holliday putting the pitcher behind Pujols, not pinch-hitting for the pitcher when the bases were loaded with two outs TWICE, putting Lohse in the game but OF COURSE you put him in LF instead of to pitch, sending position players to pitch instead of any emergency starter, the failed Ludwick steal (pray this wasn’t his idea, still should have had the STOPPPPPPPPPPP sign on).
Manuel was terrible as well, but he looked like a genius compared to LaRussa.
I’m no LaRussa fan, but “while his stars juiced?” Okay – McGwire and Vina. Who else? Franklin was busted long before he was a Cardinal, and Gary Bennett and TJ Matthews were never exactly stars, or even valuable players. Last night was ridiculous though. How about move Lopez back to the mound when you realize Mather pitches like a high school JV player? Or use Wainwright as a pinch hitter at least? I don’t really think the hit-and-run was that bad; Pujols rarely strikes out, and anything in play gives you a huge advantage.
Jose Canseco?
Baseball is amazing. I couldn’t believe this game
TLR double switching for Holliday was absurd.
But was even more absurd was the METS HITTERS SWINGING AT MATHER”S PITCHES EARLY IN THE COUNT. Mets got two runs off of Mather/Lopez. How? Mather wasn’t going to throw three strikes before throwing four balls. The Mets GIVE UP AN OUT AND SAC REYES WITH MATHER PITCHING? What? When that happened I thought Manuel shouldve been fired on the spot. They kept on swinging early though, something I just could not understand. Are they that afraid to get to two strikes with Mather pitching? Are these major league hitters? Well, maybe not….they only got 4 hits in the first 15 innings against Garcia and a mediocre bullpen.
Angel Pagan was the only guy having good professional at bats all game. Well, and I guess Wright. After those two, Luis Castillo at least can still make some contact, but the rest of the Mets lineup was totally hopeless.
Jason Bay is looking awful so far, I guess he is a pull hitter, but he’s just trying to pull everything and not coming close to making contact; his approach has looked worse than Francoeur. And Reyes looks like he could have used another week of rehab.
I thought Wright’s Ab’s weren’t all that great either today. I really don’t understand how guys can’t comprehend scouting reports better. Duncan’s pitchers hammer the outside corner, and to the STL pitchers credit, they were throwing the fastball on the outside corner (actually more like 3-5 inches outside) perfectly most of the game. But the Mets never made an adjustment and tried to take the ball to RF. The only guy I remember actually doing that was Henry Blanco a few times. Bay stands way off the plate, and so does Wright.
CB Buckner’s horrible strike zone was the reason why this game was the way it was today. Those guys never had a chance to hit the ball hard the way Buckner was giving the pitchers four inches off the outside most of the game, to his credit he was consistent. But Wright had some pitches to hit but he continued to take strikes and be in a two strike count all too often.
Maybe this is an incredibly dumb question, but, like… honestly, why not have Wainwright warm up and enter the game? What’s the point in not? If you’re going to have two different position players pitch three innings, why not just concede defeat? This game was exactly as valuable as tomorrow night’s game. And it’s not like the Mets’ offense is exactly Murderers’ Row. Call up Evan MacLane for the day and maybe he can squeak out something special.
La Russa doesn’t manage to win every single game in the season, he manages to win every series and make the playoffs
Granted, perhaps playing your best to win every individual game is the best strategy but in a game like this La Russa is going to rest players and not risk guys like Wainwright throwing off their routines.
That does seem pretty silly, though, considering it would have taken 1 run in like 10 innings to win the damn game. If you have a chance to win the game, what do you lose by having Lohse toss two innings instead of Joey freaking Mather? I guess if Lohse gets injured, you have a lot to lose, and that’s La Russa’s line of thinking.
Even with that in mind, there were plenty of other decisions that could have averted some painful situations… Motte and Hawksworth batting behind Pujols say what?
Wouldn’t winning this game have won them the series?
He “Torre’d” his bullpen… using every pitcher for 1 or 1.1 regardless of the situation, until you start getting into the “oops I’m starting to run out of pitchers” area.
Miller – 12 pitches
Reyes – 15 pitches
Franklin – 18 pitches
Only 1 reliever threw more than 25 pitches (Hawksworth – and that was him milking his only reliever left until he got to Franklin)
After the 9th inning he got 8 innings out of 6 relievers (until he got to position player pitchers). Are there no long relievers in the pen or is 2 innings considered ‘long’? He got 7 innings from his starter in 3 previous games, so it’s not like the bullpen was taxed coming into the game.
The game took almost 7 hours. McCarver sounded like he was seriously considering retirement during the telecast. If they’d gone a few more innings we might’ve been rid of his awful commentary. I’d like to see Joe West complain about this one.
As the Mets fan sitting next to me at the game pointed out, the Mets used every player on their active roster except for last night’s starter Oliver Perez.
Brilliant Jerry Manuel: Defensive substitution Alex Cora for Fernando Tatis at 1B (Cora made a spectacular diving catch to end a bases loaded jam in the 10th)
Less than Brilliant Jerry Manuel: Immediately taking Cora out of the game in the 11th so Gary Matthews could (as predicted by the Mets fan sitting next to me) strike out in his place.
Forget Moneyball, Hollywood should make a horror film based on the 19th inning of this game.
Ebessan has it exactly right. While I don’t know if he could have put Wainwright in, this game is just as valuable as any other. LaFaila seemed to think otherwise.
Yes, absolutely. Then you simply call up tomorrow’s AAA or AA starter for a game.
Yes, but there is the matter of the increased risk of injury by pitching off schedule.
Yeah I can definitely see not wanting to mess around with that option. The Reds used Aaron Harang in this fashion a couple of years ago for 4 innings against San Diego and he hasn’t been the same since. I’m not saying that’s what necessarily caused his issues, but the risk just doesn’t seem worth it with a valuable arm like Wainwright.
The bottom line is that the manager never should have run out of pitchers by the end of 17 innings, especially considering that his starter pitched 7. This isn’t a case where the starter got crushed in just 2 or 3 innings or left early due to injury.
I don’t Tony expected the game to go on for 20 innings.
Are we talking a real increase in risk or a perceived one? Sure starters are creatures of habit, but is this much different than a pitcher going on 3 days rest (it’s actually probably better because you’re probably not talking 80-100 pitches)
In fact Wainwright threw on Monday so pitching yesterday would have been normal rest (4 days). As long as he had adequate time to warm up, I don’t get the increased injury risk argument.
@ Hank – your right ….if he were to hurt the arm/shoulder then as these are overuse/ improperly conditioning injuries, it would have happened in within the next game or two anyway. It will incur mircotrauma as will any athletic activity done at that intensity but I hardly see the risk of doing it once. This pitchers are creatures of habit is total horseshit. In fact strict adherence to routine contradicts the way most athletes cycle thru their recovery periods in a month. There might in fact be times when a pitcher can go on three days rest and pitch exceedingly well because he has hit the over compensation phase of the recovery period….This is the holy grail for athletes because during tihis phase the body is overproducing that which was depleted from the workout. This can occur at different points within a 1 month cycle as the physiological adaptations to handle the athlete’s load take place. It does not necessarily occur at the same intervals. The notion that starters are at their physical best with 5 days rest is untested as far as I know and has been merely gleaned from pitching stats. The physiological complexity of the recovery process requires an empirically measured physiological model be made to which the pitching stats can be compared.
A no-hitter and a 20-inning epic game on the same day. Such an amazing day of baseball. If Ichiro completed the cycle the baseball world would’ve exploded “Scanners” style.
I think LaRussa should have asked around to see if any other position player could have tossed that 20th inning (although maybe he did do this). Mather couldn’t throw any strikes in the 19th inning. You need a guy to throw some strikes and hope the defense can make some plays, sort of like what Felipe Lopez did. The Cards would have likely lost either way, but the Mets batters were so pathetic-looking that you never know.
not only was this game poorly managed but it was poorly played too. The Mets hitters should have been taking until they got two strikes with lopez and mather on the mound. I couldn’t believe all the swings at balls out of the zone, that’s including Jacobs single in the 20th. So many dumb things happened, thank god I’m not a Met fan.
I really don’t get the appeal of the WPA graphs, maybe I’m missing something. You mean to tell me that a game that was basically tied for 18 innings will look like that?! And a back and forth game will have lots of peaks and valleys?! Excuse me while I “ooh” and “aah”.
each event changes the odds of the team winning/losing. A lead off double in the 17th for the Mets for example would give them a higher chance of winning the game.
Metz should have gotten more runs off Lopez/Mather. That’s crazy.
The fact that they were swinging the bats was retarded.
I agree so much. They should have done what I did in little league. I didn’t know it at the time, but I was becoming nearsighted and was having a lot of trouble picking up the ball when hitting. So when the pitcher would throw, I’d stay closer in on the plate than usual and look like I just wanted to hit the cover right off the ball. With them also being little leaguers and green as pitchers, they would end up throwing 1 strike, 4 balls, and I’d take my base.
That should have been the strategy against Mather. Stand in, get hit if you need to, take strikes/foul off balls over the plate, and wait until he walks you. Wait until that happens 4 times and you win.
Lost in the marathon and no-no was Livan Hernandez shutting out the Brewers, while touching 87 mph one time. I think that’s crazier than Ubaldo throwing a no-no.
This article has to have the most feedback per words written in fangraphs history.
Too bad the Cardinals didn’t still have Rick Ankiel. I think it would have been interesting to see him pitch again.
I brought this up at the game, but there’s no way TLR would have done it.
Another manager maybe, but never would TLR ask Ankiel to take the mound again – it’d be like having an alcoholic fill in for game of beer pong.
Haha true. Maybe Ankiel would have volunteered though. He would have been infinately better than Joe Mather.
this is why i love the NL. a game this ridiculous could never happen in the AL.
Tony “LaRoidsa” is a bonehead and not a very good in game manager of baseball. This is evidenced by the decisions he’s made last night. Not PH for the pitcher with the bases loaded (twice I believe) …if I’m not mistaken, there was exactly one out in the inning one time. INCREDIBLE!!!
This guy has made a living on juicing players hitting longballs and not actually “managing” to win ball games. Another skipper could easily do what he’s doing with the Cardinals and could probably do it much better. It’s asinine that the organization let this guy do whatever he wants. Further making it obvious his role in the steroid era, they even let this guy bring back “Big Mac” as a hitting coach. This guy has a whopping career BA of 2.63!!! If it weren’t for Dave Duncan…this guy would have gotten the boot years ago. They know that if “LaRoidsa” goes, Duncan goes too. What a joke.
What he did in this game was only glimpse of his incompetence. I live in St Louis and have the pleasure to see the insanely retarded lineup moves he makes on a daily basis and how treats his players. Will ESPN ever do some serious analysis on this guys usefulness and how incredibly stupid he manages the Cards? No, they will only point out how freaking rare this occurs and not the fact that it only occurred because of mismanagement.
with that said, i did enjoying watching it 🙂
I’ll trade ya one jerry manuel and one omar minaya for your tony larussa and dave duncan
you have a one of the better managers in the game, quit whining you sound like a not very smart person
Pat, I’m not sure how you quantify “one of the better managers”. But I don’t consider a manager with basically a .500 winning percentage, “one of the better managers”. WOW, good job! Not to mention all of the hardware that Tony has go with his extraordinary skills. What a joke. You’d have to do a pretty shitty job to not win in the NL Central with the team that the Cardinals have. That guy wouldnt stand a chance in the NL East.
You sound like one of those mindless baseball followers that believes everything the media says. Ya, Tony didn’t know about all the juicers on his team either. Pullllease
A .535 career winning percentage is basically a .500 winning percentage? 9 pennants, 3 world series, 4 manager of the year awards?
No, let’s just forgot about all that stuff and listen to Chris.
LaRussa made some dumb moves but at least he didn’t potentially blow out his closer’s arm to win a game in April. If you lose, you lose. I don’t see a problem with the hitters pitching, but putting the pitcher’s spot behind Pujols was moronic. I think you should assume that a game can go on for many innings once you are already in extra innings and neither team scored. The game wasn’t going anywhere.
Tony LaRussa is a jerk. I don’t want to be his friend. I hate the way he slows down the game by overmanaging his bullpen. I hate the way that style has caught on and slowed down all of baseball. I hate 12 man pitching staffs and fell he is largely responsible for them. I hate the way he whines about everything. I hate the way he defends and pretends ignorance of PED use.
32 years. 3rd all time
4783 games. 2nd
13 playoff appearances. 3rd
5 pennants. 13th
2 World Series championships. 9th (tied)
Tony LaRussa is a very good manager.
So he’s been in the league the 3rd longest, yet is only 13th and 9th on pennants and championships? Seems to be slightly below average to me.
…all from juicing. Thank God for steroids…
might i add he’s managed in the weakest divisions in baseball the entire time…you’re right…i should be impressed…
I hope you are being sarcastic. Eight men in over 100 years have won more than 2 WS. Only 2 of them in the last 50 years. Both with the Yankees. It’s a better record than Earl Weaver.
The mere fact that he could be employed for over 30 years in this age of intense scrutiny is impressive. Go ahead and hate the man; I won’t fight you on that, he’s scum. But ignoring his managerial skills is just sour grapes.
His career W% is .535.
Are people on a SABR site, using win% to measure the quality of the manager… that’s like measuring a pitcher by win totals alone.
The question is the talent around him… look at expected win total/value (maybe via WAR?) and ask is LaRussa getting more, less or about expected out of the players.
To quote win% as a measure of quality for a manager is a bit of a stretch. It’s not hashe won 53% of his games, it’s a question of given the talent around him and the competition, is 53% better than expected or worse.
If Joe Girardi wins 53% of his games with NY over the next 10 years, I assume most people would consider him a horrendous manager.
lol come on are we are going to use winning percentage here? Good players make good managers. A good manager is one that controls his players, plays the percentages, and keeps his emotions out of his decisions. I would say that La Russa manages his players well, but as for the second and third part I’m not sure.
Anyone remember the ASG in San Fran where La Russa managed? It was an extremely close game. Albert Pujols had as many plate appearances in that game as I did. That was sad.