Did Bryce Harper Cheat in the Home Run Derby?

The 2018 Home Run Derby was an awesome spectacle despite what appeared, on paper, to be a lackluster field. Bryce Harper, who somehow has 173 career homers and is still just 25, won the event in a dramatic finale that saw him best fellow catcher-turned-outfield-slugger Kyle Schwarber.

Or did he?

https://twitter.com/usabarty/status/1019296116096098305

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Yes, that’s #Justice4Schwarber trending on Twitter. My personal favorite hashtag, though, was this:

In short, the Twitterverse (mostly, to be fair, Cubs Twitterverse) was abuzz with the sentiment that Bryce Harper won the Home Run Derby by cheating. Specifically, by doing this:

You can also see that video here. In terms of what it shows, it’s pretty obvious: during the last minute-plus of his final round, Ron Harper (who, by the way, has alarmingly immense limb musculature) didn’t wait for Bryce’s batted balls to hit the ground before tossing another pitch to his son. It’s also pretty clear that, absent those extra pitches, Bryce wouldn’t have been able to catch Schwarber. As Jay Jaffe explained yesterday (emphasis mine):

[T]he 25-year-old Nationals superstar did have his back to the wall in the final round against fifth-seeded Kyle Schwarber, but with nine homers in the final minute — on 10 swings by my count, though ESPN’s broadcast said nine in a row — he tied the Cubs slugger’s total of 18. On the second pitch of the 30-second bonus period, he lofted a 434-foot drive to center field, then did a two-handed bat flip as the crowd went wild, and quickly handed the trophy to his barrel-chested father, Ron, who had pitched to him[.]

But before we toss out Harper’s Derby trophy, we should point out that it’s not at all clear from the reporting what rule Ron actually broke. The “ball must hit the ground” rule isn’t listed here, or here, or here. It’s not listed in the official guide that MLB Communications provided for the new Derby Rules in 2015. It’s not in the 2018 Official Baseball Rules. It’s not in the rules for various collegiate and intramural home-run derbies. A few reports, like this one from Craig Calcaterra, have mentioned that the rule exists, but it took some doing to find it… here, with this summary of last year’s Home Run Derby Rules.

Each round is four minutes long, which starts as soon as the first pitch is released. Each subsequent pitch can’t be released before the previous batted ball is a home run, is caught, hits the ground, or leaves the field in foul territory.

As it turns out, the actual rules governing the Home Run Derby are found in Attachment 16 to the Collective Bargaining Agreement, which is a letter from Daniel Halem to Rick Shapiro. Daniel Halem is the chief legal officer of Major League Baseball, and a lawyer. Rick Shapiro is a senior advisor to Tony Clark at the MLB Players’ Association, and a lawyer. Because you definitely want two lawyers writing the rules for the Home Run Derby. Anyway, here’s the official text of the Rule in question.

That “lead official” is a reference to the Home Run Derby umpire. Dayn Perry at CBSSports pointed out that the umpire did, from his limited appearances in the telecast, appear to tell the pitchers when to throw again. And though we don’t have definitive proof that Ron was following the umpire’s lead, it’s also worth noting that he wasn’t just grabbing and throwing. He takes a ball, comes to a stop, and then throws, just as he would if he were awaiting an umpire’s signal. If that’s what was happening, Twitter’s grievance is with the umpire, not with Ron or Bryce. Ron was just doing what he was told.

On the other hand, if we’re going just on the language of the rule, it’s hard to make a convincing case that Harper didn’t violate it. There’s video proof that, on multiple occasions, Ron threw the next pitch before Bryce’s moonshot landed. However, the Rule also fails to prescribe a penalty. And since we’re firmly in the land of the absurd (we are, after all, applying the law to a home-run hitting contest), it’s worth noting that the idea of noncompliance as a feature, rather than a bug, of certain legal systems is pretty well established. Of course, that’s more in the context of international law rather than baseball, but they’re of almost equal importance.

Anyway, the real point here is one that might surprise some readers — namely that there isn’t a penalty for every violation of rule or law. Sometimes the statute doesn’t have one, sometimes the courts won’t create one, and sometimes the drafters imagine that a rule is so unimportant that it’s not worth punishing noncompliance. After all, every punishment has a social cost. If you get caught speeding, for example, that $125 ticket is lost money to the economy, but we as a society have decided that the economic loss from your ticket is worth less than the social good of deterring speeding.

On the other hand, some laws feature no attendant penalty for a reason. (Whether you think it’s a good or bad reason is up to you.) In some large cities like Los Angeles and Chicago, for example, there are municipal ordinances requiring landlords to give their tenants written information on preventing the spread of bedbugs. Those ordinances, however, don’t prescribe a penalty for not giving out that information, and courts have been reluctant to create one. That’s because the city governments decided that the existence of the law is enough to get most landlords to comply, and incentivizing the ones who don’t isn’t worth the social cost. Whether or not that decision was correct is for another article.

What does this have to do with Bryce Harper? Even if Ron and Bryce broke the rule — and even if they won only because they broke the rule — there appears to be no language to suggest that those dingers ought to be disqualified. In fact, if you read through the letter cited above, there are no penalties for noncompliance included in any of the rules for the Home Run Derby. Now, to be fair, writing in penalties wouldn’t make sense, because it would (a) penalize potentially inadvertent mistakes in a meaningless entertainment skills contest and (b) show someone was spending way too much time creating really technical rules for a meaningless entertainment skills contest. So we can definitively put to bed the idea that Kyle Schwarber is the “real” winner: he didn’t hit more home runs than Harper, so he lost. Harper may have broken the rules, but he was probably obeying the umpire, and there’s no penalty for breaking the rules anyway.

One more thing. As some in the Twitterverse pointed out, Harper wasn’t the only cheater.

https://twitter.com/MattSiegel25/status/1019316902361849856

https://twitter.com/BigBuckeye24/status/1019035396531937280

https://twitter.com/JDR316/status/1019016206928445440

It’s almost like we were watching a game where the rules didn’t matter.





Sheryl Ring is a litigation attorney and General Counsel at Open Communities, a non-profit legal aid agency in the Chicago suburbs. You can reach her on twitter at @Ring_Sheryl. The opinions expressed here are solely the author's. This post is intended for informational purposes only and is not intended as legal advice.

79 Comments
Oldest
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radiohead
8 years ago

I mean, really, who cares?

v2miccaMember since 2016
8 years ago
Reply to  radiohead

Cubs fans apparently. I warned anyone that would listen. Once the Cubs won a World Series, their fan base would become every bit as tiresome as Red Sox nation.

drewsylvaniaMember since 2019🏆 MVP
8 years ago
Reply to  v2micca

I’m a Sox fan and 100% agree.

Johnny Coconuts
8 years ago
Reply to  drewsylvania

We’re fun now we promise! Come on down to Fenway for some lobster poutine and obstructed view seating.

Curious Gorge
8 years ago

I’m a Cubs fan. This doesn’t bother me in the least. It was a great show. I’m just happy to finally be following a perennial winner. I’m hoping for a great second half.

MikeSMember since 2020
8 years ago
Reply to  v2micca

Been saying the same thing since the Cubs looked like they were getting good. They have not quite become as entitled and insufferable as Red Sox fans, but they are certainly working on it.

RWinUT
8 years ago
Reply to  v2micca

It is funny how the Red Sox have totally become an evil empire yet 1) nobody calls them out on it, and 2) still complain about NY being the evil empire. The Yanks, after all, have the 8th highest payroll and a competing for the best record in baseball.

signedepsteinsmother
8 years ago
Reply to  v2micca

If Kyle didn’t have a problem, then why should I. But admittedly, it took a couple beats there.

I don’t know what ‘nation’ you root for (in a sense, size does matter; edit, by how the sheer size of a fanbase can skew the volume), but many fans get a little crazy after a loooong drought, are jealous of rivals during said drought and winning stretches and take some pleasure when a rival stumbles.
That said, I have been deeply saddened by how many fans I once respected became intolerable after the WS. I finally chose to stop going to well respected blogs – blogs that got me thru the rebuild – because so many once rational, patient and knowledgeable commenters, turned into impetuous children, turning on every play/pitch/game player.

Chicago Mark
8 years ago
Reply to  radiohead

Coming from me, a Chicago guy, this is the most egregious act of cheating since….since….oh WTF, it’s only a game. And it was fun. Go Cubs!

brood550
8 years ago
Reply to  Chicago Mark

“their fan base would become every bit as tiresome as Red Sox nation.”

No fanbase is worse right now than the Cardinals with their continued assault on their own player. Cubs fans may feel that they are a better franchise but they aren’t actively engaging in the stupidity that is coming out of St. Louis. But can you really be too surprised I mean St. Louis style pizza is an abomination like Cincinnati Chili.

https://deadspin.com/i-can-t-get-enough-of-the-shitass-cardinals-feuding-wit-1827443647

Geebs
8 years ago
Reply to  brood550

I feel like at this point in time we can put behind us the notion that St. Louis Cardinals fan’s are “the best fans in baseball”.

besgueToDiffer
8 years ago
Reply to  Geebs

Or maybe we should stop making broad statements about fans in general? Cardinals fans aren’t evil, Red Sox fans aren’t insufferable, Cubs fans aren’t tiresome.

Football fans on the other hand, are the worst!

thestatbook
8 years ago
Reply to  besgueToDiffer

“Cardinals fans aren’t evil.” True.
“Red Sox fans aren’t insufferable.” Questionable.
“Cubs fans aren’t tiresome.” Unequivocally false.

Kevbot034
8 years ago
Reply to  brood550

I mean, Cardinal fans loved Dexter Fowler last year, and now he sucks so they hate him. That’s kind of just baseball. But I’m not going to defend Cardinal fans too much – their annoying “Cardinal Way” and “best fans in baseball” stuff chased me from them being my favorite team (St. Louis native) when I was about 16.

Lanidrac
8 years ago
Reply to  Kevbot034

Well, of course, that’s how sports fans treat any player whose value completely tanks without any way to explain it. Fowler is being treated no differently by the Cardinals fans than he would be as a member of any other team. It’s not like the fans are booing him whenever he comes to the plate and/or whenever he makes an out.

Lanidrac
8 years ago
Reply to  brood550

Hey, St. Louis style pizza is great! There’s absolutely no outside crust (the worst part of any pizza, although stuffed crust is at least pretty good), and the cracker-like texture tastes great without being too filling or doughy or being too crunchy.

It’s at least much better than that nasty deep dish stuff in Chicago, and yes, I have had both from within their respective cities.

FedericoMember since 2017
8 years ago
Reply to  Lanidrac

“Hey, St. Louis style pizza is great! There’s absolutely no outside crust (the worst part of any pizza, …”

You, my friend, have clearly never visited Italy. 🙂

roputnts
8 years ago
Reply to  radiohead

FYI, I was at the HR derby watching from Sec 121 behind the plate. Throughout the entire derby the umpire was not signaling the go ahead based on when the ball hit the ground. It seemed to be a judgment rule based on whether there might be a safety issue with the kids. Hoskins, Schwarber and Harper were the most impressive IMO. I think Hoskins scored well in part because he had the lowest launch angle on average for his HRs, thus less time wasted for the balls in the air.

Doorknob11
8 years ago

Pretty sure everybody was doing it in someway. Everybody just loves to make the winner invalid.

Kevbot034
8 years ago
Reply to  Doorknob11

And all the more when it’s a polarizing guy like Harper.

Geebs
8 years ago

F*ck twitter, I haven’t been entertained by a home run derby since when Griffey was doing them in the mid 90’s and I was very entertained by this years derby. We got to watch Bryce Harper with that beautifully violent swing destroy baseballs, it’s an exhibition, it’s batting practice with fireworks, find another cause. As far as #justice4Schwarber goes, didn’t he look like a kid in a candy store watching Bryce do what he did? He kind of looked like he was rooting for Bryce in that moment, maybe not but I hardly think Kyle cares.

jiveballer
8 years ago
Reply to  Geebs

It was pretty good. The timer is much more suspenseful than a hard count and they finally got rid of Chris Berman so I can actually watch it.

Luke HooperMember since 2021
8 years ago

https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/8zqev7/numbers_behind_the_early_pitches_for_harper_last/

“In the final round his father threw 6 pitches before the previous ball had landed, totally 8.43 seconds of “cheated” time. However, he won the derby with 22 seconds remaining and saw only 47 pitches in the final round, to Schwarber’s 52.”

Brownie19
8 years ago

Another useless story by Sheryl Ring. Fangraphs – it’s sad that you’ve dropped to this level.

Paul-SF
8 years ago
Reply to  Brownie19

Wow. Thanks for that productive contribution to the discourse. When I see Sheryl’s byline, I know I’m about to read something that’s both entertaining and informative, likely to make me laugh and teach me something new – and this article was no exception. That’s a hard combination for any writer to perfect, as I know from personal experience, and we are lucky to be able to read her on a regular basis. Keep up the great work, Sheryl.

v2miccaMember since 2016
8 years ago
Reply to  Brownie19

Sheryl’s insight into the world of Corporate Law and how it impacts that game of baseball has been invaluable to this site. I don’t always agree with her conclusions, but I invariably enjoy and appreciate her unique perspective on the legal aspects of events pertinent to the game.
Let me put it this way. I desperately hope she is still on staff for the inevitable Strike/Lockout as I will consider her articles the go to source for the most intelligently and concisely worded updates of the proceedings.

tb.25
8 years ago
Reply to  Brownie19

It’s sad uneducated comments have dropped to this level.

Geebs
8 years ago
Reply to  tb.25

I blame ESPN for taking away the outlet of the stupid.

MikeSMember since 2020
8 years ago
Reply to  Brownie19

I’m sorry somebody forced you to read it.

AnonMember since 2020
8 years ago

Finding out that the rules for the Home Run Derby were actually collectively bargained and codified in glorious legalese is easily the best thing I will learn this week.

dustin0224
8 years ago
Reply to  Anon

It’s only Wednesday but I heartily agree! This also has me wondering, since the “rules” are more guidelines or suggestions with no penalty/consequence for not following them, I wonder what would happen in the off chance that 2 balls were in play at the same time and resulted in a kid getting hit by the 2nd ball by trying to catch the 1st ball. Presumably the “rule” is supposed to prevent that from happening, but am curious what might be the legal consequence to the league if it did happen. I’m guessing the kids/parents signed waivers but maybe there could still be an issue for the league?

Sultan of Say
8 years ago
Reply to  dustin0224

This is the type of question that is right in Sheryl’s wheelhouse. I’d love to understand the legal consequence of a fan getting hit by the second ball and if/how this rule plays into it.

rosen380
8 years ago

From the “official” rules listed, it omits “each subsequent pitch can’t be released before the previous batted ball is a home run”, which would be key as that would be as soon as the ball crosses over the OF wall in fair territory. Whether it has hit the ground or been caught by a fan or not is irrelevant to it being a home run.

Looks like that is swapped for a “when the umpire says so”, which I suppose is fair if they are giving the sign when it crosses that point. If they are waiting for the ball to end up on eBay, then I could see the batter/pitcher wanting to go ahead a bit sooner and I think that should be fine so long as they are waiting for it officially be a HR.

Couldn’t you argue that having to wait for the ball to land would put some elite sluggers at a disadvantage? Min 18 HRs, here are the average hang-times for home runs in 2018:

*5.30s Bryce Harper*
5.25 Eddie Rosario
5.25 Sin-Shoo Choo
5.18 Mike Trout
5.17 Trevor Story
5.13 Max Muncy
5.13 Charlie Blackmon
5.07 Javier Baez
5.06 Jesus Aguilar
5.05 Ryon Healy
…
*4.68 Kyle Schwarber*
4.65 Giancarlo Stanton
4.65 C.J. Cron
4.63 Mookie Betts
4.55 Christian Villanueva
4.54 Matt Carpenter
4.53 Edwin Encarnacion

Just looking at guys with like 30+ HR power, Harper had the highest average HR hang-time and Schwarber was one of the lowest. 0.62s times 18 HRs is basically an 11.2s penalty on Harper just because he hits the ball higher/further.

EasyenoughMember since 2016
8 years ago
Reply to  rosen380

With supposedly 8.43 seconds of “cheated” time according to Chicks Dig the Long Ball above. And with 22 sec remaining in bonus time… And a tired father pitching.

Lanidrac
8 years ago
Reply to  rosen380

The home runs are included in the part that mentions the ball landing.

dustin0224
8 years ago

Even though it was an exhibition, it has become news as absurd as that might be, and I appreciate Sheryl’s perspective and deep dive into the rule in the CBA. Harper did not cheat and I don’t believe there is evidence his dad did either, definitely blame the ump for allowing those pitches to be thrown early if anyone. But I would say he did gain an advantage by being able to swing as often as he did in the final minute, even though others randomly swung early once or twice throughout the competition. Eno wrote an article for the Athletic a couple days ago focusing on exit velocity and hitting lower home runs which had this quote from Bregman: “My key is going to be to hit the homers a little bit lower than the other guys, so it lands sooner, so I don’t have as much time to wait in between swings.” So it’s pretty clear the contestants and fans had that understanding coming in. Even if there was something on the books to penalize it, there was no way the umpire would waive off several home runs in that moment in the final minute in front of the home crowd. Next year everyone should just disregard the rule and swing away to their heart’s content.

brood550
8 years ago

It’s the Derby. Who cares? By the way with fewer games Schwarber has been better with the stick and the glove than Harper. 6.4 UZR to -8.4, WRC+ 129 to 119, WAR 2.6 to 1.3, Games 83 to 94, PA 321 to 414. So Harper can celebrate for the night in spite of that glaring .214 AVE. He should enjoy it because unless he can find a sucker he isn’t getting 400 million.

FrodoBeck
8 years ago
Reply to  brood550

Poor Bryce. From 400 million to a paltry 375 million.

brood550
8 years ago
Reply to  FrodoBeck

His injury history and the fact that he’s only had one extremely good year makes that even rich. Have to see what the market is. Half a season left for him to increase/decrease his value. Based on Value per WAR his 2015 and 2017 seasons are the only seasons he’s produced that would have surplus value at $37.5 million/year. You’re banking on him averaging at least 4.5 WAR per season at that price point. Does he have that potential? Absolutely, but him achieving it regularly or exceeding it enough in his good years to makeup for the down years is highly questionable.

He only has 1 year of 5 WAR or higher, has only recorded 600+ PAs twice in his career. I see his next contract being worse for the signing club than the 8 year deal given to Kemp based on an 8.3 WAR season and his “potential”. Granted Kemp was 28 at time of signing, but he also had played the prior 4 seasons in there entirety.

brood550
8 years ago
Reply to  brood550

In all honesty, I’d probably be maxed at something like $320 million over 10 years. Those injuries pile up and he’ll be 35 at the end of that deal. With his injury frequency his fall off could be very unpleasant.

rosen380
8 years ago
Reply to  brood550

“Based on Value per WAR his 2015 and 2017 seasons are the only seasons he’s produced that would have surplus value at $37.5 million/year. You’re banking on him averaging at least 4.5 WAR per season at that price point. ”

Well, only if you assume that $/win doesn’t change going forward. If next year is expected around $9M/win and +5% per year beyond, then at 4.5 WAR per year, he’s worth in excess of 10/$500M over 10 years.

Figure 4.75 wins through age 29 and then -0.5 wins per year beyond and he’s right at 10/$400M

STEAMER has him finished at 3.3 fWAR; use the last three years weighted 5/4/3 for 2019 and then stable through age 29 and then -0.5 per year [entirely ignoring his huge 2015] and then you dip under 10/$300M

rosen380
8 years ago
Reply to  rosen380

One more pass at projecting — including STEAMER RoS, Harper would be at 30.6 fWAR through age 25. Looking at only players who:
1) were +/- 10% of Harpers projected PAs
2) were +/- 20 points of wRC+
3) were +/- 1.0 fWAR/600 PA through age 25

We’re down to 13 players. But have to drop Machado as he is little help as far as projecting how a players through age 25 stats might project out age 26-35.

I’d like to use like the last 20, 25 or 30 years, but at this level, we’d have too small of a sample. Debuted in the last *100* years, knocks off Sherry Magee, Jimmy Sheckard, George Davis and Sam Crawford.

We’re left with 8 names:
Hank Aaron, Frank Robinson, Johnny Bench, Cesar Cedeno, Vada Pinson, Ron Santo, Roberto Alomar and Orlando Cepeda.

Lets see what these guys averaged ages 26-35 [any missed seasons will be counted at -2.0 fWAR, not 0.0 and tacking on a -1.0 for any seasons under 300 PA]:

26 6.0
27 4.2
28 5.0
29 5.1
30 3.7
31 4.5
32 3.7
33 3.5
34 1.6
35 1.4

… using the $/win from before, 10/$418M; so some reasonably derived comps put his next 10 years at roughly this value.

* I didn’t penalize Bench for missing 300 PA in 1981 with the strike, but I also didn’t credit him anything for the missed time for the strike. In total I handed out five one-win penalties and one two-win penalty.

If I hadn’t bothered, it didn’t make a lot of difference, 10/$429 without them

brood550
8 years ago
Reply to  rosen380

I fully agree has easily could be worth in excess of 400 million over the life of the contract. But the list you stated never had his injury troubles at age 25 either…

brood550
8 years ago
Reply to  brood550

So what do you read into Harper’s next contract if he ends up with a sub 3 WAR this season? Let’s say he lands on the DL at least once by season’s end(which will most likely happen)? If Harper comes out and says he was hurt all year do you chalk up another season to injuries and pay him like he’ll be healthy more often than not? Also, with Harper’s UZR this year he isn’t grading positive defensively in any field(he has yet to play left this year). So if he is relegated to Left Field, his value drops as well.

As a fan I don’t want my team to touch him with a 10ft pole. In my eyes he’s too expensive for a player you’re unsure of. I’d prefer a safer bet rather than the enormous gamble. But, if some team takes the gamble and wins more power to them. I just don’t want it to be the team I root for.

anthony86
8 years ago

Hi Sheryl, I wholly agree with your point that this isn’t an event where intense scrutiny of the rules or players makes any sense. For the purpose of understanding how the umpire was managing the event, I do have a little to add.

Being in attendance, I had a decent view of the umpire regulating play. He signaled with the classic play ball point to the pitcher and would advance a couple paces towards the pitcher with his hand up if they were starting their motion before the ball had landed or gone foul (after something like 3-4 incidents in succession). I recall this happening at some point in the earlier rounds, and it happened during Harper’s final flurry. Partway through the flurry, however, the umpire relaxed from what I could tell, stepped back, and never seemed to be close to elevating his response. This made me see it as a warning, not a signal that he would intervene.

Obviously this wasn’t a major focus of mine or of the crowd during the derby, and honestly I’d be fine with them allowing for more rapid pitching during the last 30 seconds to a minute just due to how well this worked as a dramatic event.

Kibber
8 years ago

Time to put on the thinking cap folks
Did Harper cheat? What kind of question is that in a league with 100s of admitted PED users?
EVERYBODY CHEATS
everybody
we need to realize these sorts of things and just move on – why debate facts?

Kevbot034
8 years ago
Reply to  Kibber

Well, I’m not really sure what exactly you’re referencing, but as far as this article goes, Bryce 100% didn’t, because all he does is swing a bat when the ball is thrown his way. His dad maybe sorta did, but if you’d bothered to read…?

brood550
8 years ago
Reply to  Kibber

Let me guess you’re part of that NASCAR crowd that believes “If you ain’t cheating, you ain’t tryin'”?

MDMember since 2017
8 years ago

I noticed this immediately when that side-by-side video was shown live. It’s a pretty inconsequential thing, and the HR derby was fun as hell to watch – arguably, the best one yet, and I’m a Yankees fan who thoroughly enjoyed last year’s (for obvious reasons) – and the new format is awesome. It’s not worth fretting over.

That said, baseball itself is just a meaningless competition. The competition is literally the only point of the sport – the only reason we watch, and one of the fundamental aspects of competition is an agreed upon set of boundaries under which each participant should operate. I just find it weird how many people are so aggressively “the rule is dumb don’t talk about this you’re ruining fun baseball it’s just the derby”.

Geebs
8 years ago
Reply to  MD

Well I think the argument is more that this is an exhibition, unlike a baseball game (including the ASG) this is mostly about showing off 1 particular element of a players game purely for entertainment purpose. This would have to make a person conclude that so long as the player acts in accordance with the spirit of the game (no composite bats, don’t throw the ball over the fence..ect) I don’t see a problem with allowing the players to let loose, this is a skills competition that already has a stop watch, I want to see players hit HR’s not watch him watch one he already hit.

MDMember since 2017
8 years ago
Reply to  Geebs

I agree with the assessment, and believe that to be the center of the thought process of the “it doesn’t matter” argument. And, to be fair, there’s a lot more on the line in the competition of the general game of baseball vs this little competition.

But still – if the point of the derby was just to see a bunch of powerful hitters hit home runs, then it’d be an unstructured batting practice. But it’s not. Its structured as a competition. The rules are (or, better stated: should be) there for a reason. To rephrase the argument away from the “did Harper cheat” and/or the “derby was stolen from Schwarber”, one could easily ask:
“Did we the fans get cheated out on seeing a bunch of players hit a few more HRs because they each followed the rule to a different extent?”

stever20Member since 2017
8 years ago

I’m reminded of the video from Alex Bregman on the story about the HR Derby- go to 15 seconds and clear as day as the kid is catching the previous ball, Bregman is hitting the next one. So it clear as day wasn’t only Harper doing it.

Spitball McPhee
8 years ago

I think we can interpret “when a ball becomes a homerun” as when it passes a certain amount of feet in the air past the wall. That wouldn’t require it to land.

(Ridiculous thing for people to care about, but kinda fun to play with)

The number 1 rule of the derby should be exactly what Harper did; be entertaining.

nevinbrownMember since 2022
8 years ago

The rule is stupid anyways. You’re essentially punishing guys for hitting farther homers. Also “Each subsequent pitch can’t be released before the previous batted ball is a home run, is caught, hits the ground, or leaves the field in foul territory.” It is a home run not when it lands but when it crosses the fence (one lawyer could argue), as it is reasonable to assume that a 9 year old is not going to rob any of these dingers.

YKnotDisco
8 years ago
Reply to  nevinbrown

1. The “rule” is in place to protect the children that are shagging balls
2. Guys are awarded 30 extra seconds for “hitting farther homers”

HappyFunBallMember since 2019
8 years ago

Frankly, it’s a dumb rule anyway. We want dingerz, we want as many as they can hit, and why should we have to wait for the last one to land?

Kevbot034
8 years ago

lol, this was a fun article to answer the insanity of fans if nothing else. HR derby is even more of a fun, silly exhibition than the ASG itself, just enjoy watching sluggers hit baseballs.

ptscott
8 years ago

As an overly pedantic economist who loves overly detailed analysis of trivial things, I loved the article, but I have to point out that the $125 from a speeding ticket is not lost to society — it’s just a transfer from a private individual to the government. But the broader point (that it is costly to enforce laws) is still sound since you have to pay an officer to sit there with a radar gun.

MDMember since 2017
8 years ago
Reply to  ptscott

We should reallocate those police resources to sitting behind home plate. Much more effective use of a radar gun.

travolta19Member since 2019
8 years ago
Reply to  ptscott

Haha, that’s funny, that was my only issue with the article as well. I was an econ major, maybe it’s in our blood.

stever20Member since 2017
8 years ago

I think the fact that folks are even talking about this 36 hours after the Derby shows how good of a thing it is for MLB.

MastaYoda33
8 years ago

No he didn’t cheat any more than anyone else did, but it did seem like MLB tried to help Harper win, judging by the rest of the field and the specific matchups for him to get there. He first draws Freddie Freeman, who admitted he hasn’t hit a home run in BP for 3 years, followed by Max Muncy(!!!)/Javier Baez… It’s good for baseball to have the hometown guy, who happens to be one of the most recognizable stars in the sport (and by far the most recognizable in the Derby) win it. And I’m fine with that.

HappyFunBallMember since 2019
8 years ago
Reply to  MastaYoda33

Baez’ raw power is absurd. In a BP competition where he doesn’t really have to identify strikes he should excel. Next time maybe he’ll pick a better pitcher to throw to him.

stever20Member since 2017
8 years ago
Reply to  MastaYoda33

I think it was done by HR hit in the regular season going into the derby. Harper had hit the 2nd most HR of the group, Muncy 3rd most. So that’s why they were in the SF together. Freeman 7th most.

MastaYoda33
8 years ago
Reply to  stever20

Right, I just meant it seemed like the field in total was Harper, and then everyone else a clear step below. Who knows how many players they actually asked that said “no”, but I could name 30 guys I’d rather see in the Derby than Max Muncy, and I doubt THAT many guys turned them down, but who really knows.

stever20Member since 2017
8 years ago
Reply to  MastaYoda33

Muncy is in the top 20 in HR this season(and was tied for 13th when they set the brackets). And he did win his first round over Baez. There’s only 19 guys who have 20 hr so far this year- so Muncy definitely belonged this year…

Deacon DrakeMember since 2017
8 years ago

In the earlier rounds, someone (I was only half paying attention) did have a pitch called off. On the broadcast, someone calls out “no pitch” or “no good” when the pitch was delivered (I think it was Hoskins- pull to left) while the previously fly ball was still in the air. It was obvious…

In Harper’s case, the release of the pitch was synched pretty closely with the ball clearing the fence into the crowd.

Basically, if there is no punishment, it is less of a rule and more of a guideline.

Captain Tenneal
8 years ago

What happened to the rule from a few years back where a homer stopped the clock in the final minute until you hit a non-homer? Seems like this never would have been an issue if they kept that up.

tb.25
8 years ago

Great perspective. One thing you didn’t mention, though, is that he could throw once the previous hit was deemed a home run:

“Each subsequent pitch can’t be released before the previous batted ball is a home run…”

None of the ‘quick’ pitches Bryce received were thrown either a) in rapid succession, like you mention Sheryl, or b) prior to Bryce’s hit crossing the fence.

The GuruMember since 2026
8 years ago

we should come to expect this with joe torre and manfred running the show. incompetent.

RWinUT
8 years ago
Reply to  The Guru

Interesting how some can inject CT into the Home Run Derby.

Jordioteque
8 years ago

My brother and I were at the Derby, with a great view of both the umpire and the homers.

No one’s discussing it, but for anyone who was there, it was clear: For the entire competition, the umpire was signaling to go ahead when the ball crossed the outfield wall, not when it landed. He only waited till it landed when the ball stayed in play. We both saw this and discussed it with fans around us.

It wasn’t as apparent with Hoskins or especially Bregman because of all their line-drive homers, which landed almost as soon as they crossed the wall, but it was very apparent with Harper and Schwarber and the other big-swingers.

There were one or two pitches in that final minute that may have come one second early, but it wasn’t enough to make a difference in the competition.

tnt9357Member since 2020
8 years ago

“Of course, that’s more in the context of international law rather than baseball, but they’re of almost equal importance.”

+1

cubsker
8 years ago

Hoskins was far worse in the semis than Harper was. Was he cheating? Yeah. Does the home town guy get to cheat? Yes. Do I care? No. Would I care if I had bet Schwarbs at 5/1. Yes.

bettingresource.com
8 years ago

Technically he didn’t break the rules because the rule of hitting the ground or catching applies if the ball didn’t leave the field. The rule states next pitch can be thrown once the ball leaves the field by hr or foul. So once the ball leaves the field in fair territory, its determined as hr and no need to wait for the ball to hit the “grounds” or to be caught.

piddy
8 years ago

Todd Frazier also did this at the HR derby in Cincinnati.

Broken BatMember since 2020
8 years ago

As a Cub fan, desiring to duplicate the the better than anyone else Red Sox Nation public persona, probably need Bud Norris to us how to act like fans….

Lanidrac
8 years ago

So it’s umpire who cheated, not any of the participants! MLB needs to significantly fine Perry in order to make sure that we don’t keep getting such bogus officiating at a time when we can’t use Instant Replay.

astropcr
8 years ago

Pretty sure you mean, “Dayn Perry of CBS’s Eye on Baseball.”

Easy mistake to make. Surprised that the erstwhile editor of this fine establishment did not catch that.