Finding a New Home for Hanley Ramirez
The Red Sox are primed to make some moves this off-season, but not much is known about what those moves will be. They might sign a big money pitcher, they might not. They might trade a bunch of prospects, but they might not. They’re very likely to do something, probably, but what that something is, nobody has any idea. That’s all true, with one exception, an exception you’re likely aware of if you read the title of this post. Hanley Ramirez, lost puppy, needs a new home, and the Red Sox would very much likely to give him one.
It was only last season that Hanley showed up in Boston, skinny, hungry, wet from constant proverbial rain. The Red Sox took him in, scratched him behind the ears, and gave him shelter, food, and $88 million on a four-year deal with a $22 million vesting option. Then he spent the better part of the season pooping on the carpet.
Ramirez’s 2015 season was so bad he cost the Red Sox two wins. For $22 million and the promise of $66 million more, Boston got -1.8 WAR. The Red Sox would literally have been better off had Ben Cherington given one of those “we just signed a new player” press conferences and then, like Clint Eastwood, spent the time talking to an empty chair. Or maybe he could have talked about the team’s prospects for the coming season while casually lighting 20s on fire and tossing them over his shoulder while subordinates ran around frantically with fire extinguishers. Had he done that, it might have been the end of Cherington’s job, but if so it only would have sped up the process by about six months.
Now Boston is run by Dave Dombrowski and Dombrowski has moved Hanley from left field, which he can’t play, to first base, which he probably can’t play but we can’t be sure yet. Instead of putting him there for the final month of the season to see if he could, you know, do it, Boston sent him home. This is known as the writing being on the wall. Instead of getting ready for next season when getting ready for next season was all that was left, Boston said, “Nah, you know what, Hanley? Just get out of here. No, no, it’s fine, we’re good. Sure, sure we are. Have a great holiday!” So Hanley needs a new place to play. The Red Sox don’t want to go into next season with a total unknown at an important defensive position, let alone one they perceive to be a player who wasn’t interested in putting out maximum effort to learn a new position. No, they’re going to try to dump him on someone else.
That sounds impossible considering the money and everything else, but Prince Fielder was traded. Carl Crawford was traded. Vernon Freakin’ Wells was traded. Problems and all, we are talking about a soon-to-be 32-year-old player two seasons removed from a 3.3 win season, and three years removed from a 5.1 win season. It’s not that another team will want him so much as they might want him more than a different over-priced anvil hanging around their neck.
But who? That’s the question I keep coming back to. Who would possibly want an expensive player with injury concerns and no defensive position whose only skill – hitting – utterly failed him last season? Let’s find out! But before I go dropping a list of every single team on you, we should try to narrow things down a bit. Any trading partner is likely going to need to say ‘yes’ to at least two of these questions.
- Do they have a similarly undesirable or overly expensive player on their roster?
- If so, is that player of any interest to Boston? Like, even a little? Maybe?
- Do they have a space of some sort for Ramirez/can they delude themselves into thinking that there is some place on the diamond besides DH he could play?
For example, the Phillies wouldn’t meet any of those points. True, they do have Ryan Howard, but Howard has – mercifully – one season remaining on his ridiculous five year, $125 million contract, so why would they take on an extra $41 million for an essentially similar player? Answer: they wouldn’t. Same goes for the Astros who could potentially put Ramirez at DH but to do so they’d require the Red Sox to essentially pay his salary. Boston could opt to do this, but it seems at that point they’d just keep Ramirez and hope he bounces back, as it’ll cost them the same either way. At least with the latter they have some possibility of upside should Ramirez bounce back.
So I’ve gone through the teams, examined rosters and contracts, and below, you’ll find the fruits of my labors. Here are six teams who could, maybe, serve as trading partners to the Red Sox and provide a new home for Hanley Ramirez.
First, the long shots.
REDS
This could work if the Reds decided they wanted to get rid of Joey Votto. The Red Sox need a first baseman and the $206 million over the next eight seasons due to Votto would more than offset the $66 million due to Ramirez. But then you get into some logistical problems for both teams. Do the Reds want to deal their homegrown MVP just to be rid of his contract? Maybe, but don’t you think they’d want something else back in return, something they could hold up as value in return to their fans? Maybe the Red Sox send prospects with Ramirez, or maybe this gets too complicated and both teams go their separate ways.
A’s
The A’s are a potential fit in that they need a DH. But they’re notoriously budget conscious to the point where they don’t have anyone on the roster who would alleviate enough of the pain of acquiring Ramirez. Billy Butler is still owed $20 million but, well, why? With the A’s it comes down to this: are the Red Sox desperate enough to be rid of Ramirez that they’d pay most if not all of his salary just to make him go away? Maybe.
RANGERS
Perhaps the Rangers would prefer Ramirez to Shin-Soo Choo, who is owed $102 million over the next five seasons, or Prince Fielder, who they’ll pay $120 over the next five seasons (though some of which is offset by a $30 million payment from the Tigers). Both should probably be DHs, though, and the Red Sox already have one of those, so maybe that doesn’t work. The Rangers also have Elvis Andrus and the $105 million he’s due between now and 2022, though the Red Sox already have a shortstop in Xander Bogaerts and the Rangers already have Prince Fielder clogging up the DH, so that seems unlikely.
PADRES
Beyond those options, the Padres spring to mind partially because who knows what A.J. Preller will try next, but mostly because they have Matt Kemp who, like Ramirez, is essentially a DH playing the outfield. Kemp is owed $86 million between now and 2019, so more money and a year longer deal, but on the plus side, Kemp can play the outfield badly — as opposed to Ramirez, who can’t play the outfield in any quantifiable way whatsoever. Also, maybe get Kemp out of San Diego and put him in left field at Fenway, the smallest outfield in the majors, and he’d be able to handle it. Perhaps the Padres would be willing to take on the worse player because it’ll save them $20 million and they’d be rid of the headache a year sooner. Or maybe Dombrowski will throw in a pizza. It couldn’t hurt.
Now on to the slightly more likely candidates.
TWINS
The underproductive Joe Mauer is still owed $69 million, a similar figure to the $66 million Ramirez has coming to him. Also Mauer can stand next to first base without causing it to explode. The Red Sox might find that attractive, and the Twins have a hole at DH (named Oswaldo Arcia) so maybe they would be willing to take a chance on a Ramirez return to glory.
TIGERS
Dombrowski clearly knows the Tigers roster inside and out and the Tigers possess more than a few expensive contracts. They owe Miguel Cabrera $248 million over the next eight seasons, Justin Verlander $112 million over the next four seasons, Victor Martinez will make $54 million in total over the next three seasons, and $32 million in total will go to Anibal Sanchez over the next two seasons. That’s a lot of levels. Maybe somewhere in there Dombrowski and new Detroit GM Al Avila can hit on an equal level of salary dump. Or maybe it’s like walking into an ice cream store with 70 flavors listed on the wall. At some point it just becomes too difficult and you decide to just bake a cake instead.
ANGELS
The Angels have, if not a need, then flexibility at DH, and an abundance of expensive players they might be interested in dealing — and there has possibly been some discussion between the two clubs already. The problem is, the expensive players don’t fit the timeline or value of Ramirez’s contract very well. C.J. Wilson and Jered Weaver are both due $20 million this year and neither is very good, but after this season their contracts expire. Then there’s Albert Pujols, whose contract runs forever and costs everything. There isn’t that middle ground, like a Mauer or Victor Martinez where you can at least see the numbers matching up a bit if not the players. Still, the Angels could use a DH, so perhaps there is a bit of work that can be done outside of the obvious, GM to GM, to facilitate a deal.
CONCLUSION
I’ve been tempted to use “outside the box” a few times in this piece and for that I’m ashamed, but that’s where Dave Dombrowski will have to look if he wants to find a new home for sad Hanley. Talk to the Twins. Call up the Tigers. Get the Rangers on the horn. Be kind. Be confident. And when it comes down to it, don’t be afraid to beg.
“the Rangers already have Victor Martinez clogging up the DH”
…What?
Thank you, I couldn’t decide if i was losing my mind, there’d been a trade I’d completely missed, or there were two guys in baseball named Victor Martinez.
Whoops! Sorry for the typo. Obviously I meant Prince Fielder. It’s fixed now.
I like this definition of “typo” (and “obviously”)
Also, “Here are six teams who could, maybe, serve as trading partners to the Red Sox and provide a new home for Hanley Ramirez.”
I spy 7 teams in the article.
Ah, I do enjoy me a good train wreck.
Too bad 1980s era George Steinbrenner is not around anymore. He’d give you Jose Rijo and Fred McGriff for him.
And if you’re nice, he’d throw in Ken Phelps.
I think you meant Jay Buhner..
heck, he may even hire the zombie of Billy Martin to motive Hanley
“Also Mauer can stand next to first base without causing it to explode.”
LOL!
Well done sir.
I completely disagree on the Phillies. If the red sox were willing to send a decent prospect along with Hanley for Howard straight up, I think they’d be very interested. with Howards Buyout the difference is about 35mm
The thing about Ramirez is that there’s still a non-zero chance that he lives up to the test of his contract. He’s worth something to somebody. Howard has been worth .8 WAR since the start of 2010.
And he’s hit over 130 HRs. Time for Dave D to bring him up here. Hitting a few of my ambidextrous BP fastballs is all he needs.
Somehow we should have known that your career change would not have been enough to keep you away.
Doesnt Park potentially change the thought process for the twins?
Drastically, I’d say.
No way the Twins make that deal. They’re always looking for “good clubhouse guys” (the importance of “good clubhouse guys” certainly can be debated), and Ramirez doesn’t rate well in that regard.
Additionally, Mauer has a full no-trade clause, and I don’t see him waving it to go to Boston when they’re coming off the two seasons they’ve just had. Sure, Dombrowski will have more resources (and possibly a better aptitude) than Terry Ryan will have for putting a winning team together, but it isn’t like the Red Sox have boatloads of talent and fell just short last year, and just subtracting Hanley from the roster would put them over the top. They had some serious weaknesses in their roster (so did the Twins), and Mauer, a Minnesota native, doesn’t seem inclined to trade one uncertain situation for another.
I think the “good clubhouse guy” argument is overrated. The 2009-July 2015 Washington Nationals were very, very vocal about their emphasis on good clubhouse guys.
Then they went out and got Secretary of State Jonathan Papelbon.
The point isn’t that the Twins SHOULD avoid him because he’s not a good clubhouse guy.
The point is the Twins have history of thinking that having good clubhouse guys is important, so – whether it should or not – it will factor into the Twins’ thinking.
It may be that good clubhouse guys are overrated, but Hanley Ramirez now seems like exactly the situation to be concerned about that. He’s a player with a history of success and playing time, who is still making big money but may well be forced into a platoon/bench role and working on playing 1B/3B after almost never playing anywhere besides SS before last year.
If Ramirez is a player who is going to end up sulking and complaining rather than accepting a role where he’s, say, a utility player who gets 200 to 300 PA’s per year largely against LH pitching while rotating between 3B, 1B, and DH, then taking him on becomes even more of a boom or bust proposition.
kdl, I guess you didn’t get my point. My point was, teams say they really care about good clubhouse guys, until the day they decide they don’t.
Even before Park, the Twins had Sano at DH. They are trying him out in LF, presumably to make room for Park at DH/1B, if he signs.
Either way, Mr Kory kind of biffed it re: the Twins.
I hope no one wants him and Boston eats every last dollar of that deal…
If they had put in weight clauses for him and Sandoval, they’d be getting better play out of those two, and Boston could eat more as a whole without those two fat shits stuffing their face at every restaurant in town.
Rest easy buddy, bad contract swaps are still bad for the Red Sox.
“At some point it just becomes too difficult and you decide to just bake a cake instead.”
In the store, one assumes. Which basically means Dombrowski negotiating with David Price from physically within the Tigers Front Office, if one wanted to continue the metaphor. No one does.
You would have to think after the Billy Butler disaster that the A’s wouldn’t then proceed to trade for Billy Butler part the second.
Then again they *did* trade a dollar bill with Josh Donaldson’s picture for a quarter featuring Brett Lawrie and two shiny nickels!
There is a lot wrong with you “analysis” of the Donaldson trade. But all that’s worth saying…you didn’t even get the number of ‘nickels’ correct.
You’re right of course, Oakland pretty clearly won that trade. My bad!
I had this problem when in 1970 I had to decide whether to accept $75 (a very fair offer from a mechanic) for the car which had just blown it’s rings and had bedeviled me for two years, or borrow a sledge hammer and have a go at it for the pleasure of it. The Red Sox should keep Ramirez at Pawtucket for the next three years, where he belongs. In left field. He needs to experience the bus rides again, and the fans would get some karmic satisfaction. Who knows, maybe he’d quit.
I imagine you’re joking, but on the off chance you aren’t – Hanley can refuse assignment to the minors.
What about to the Indians as DH?
Also, since when did 1B become an “important defensive position?”
You need someone to catch the ball as it approaches him. Seeing as Hanley has now decided to have difficulty doing anything required defensively you might be better off getting a bullfighter to “ole!” the ball past as the other fielder throws it to him (at least you’d save on money then).
Who does Cleveland have that would match up financially for Hanley?
Yes I know that firstbase is a defensive position, but they can’t all be “important.”
I just thought of Cleveland because it seems like they have a big clear opening at DH. They don’t really have anyone that would match up financially, but if the Sox covered a large amount of Hanley’s contract, maybe something could work. It doesn’t really matter if only an anonymous minor-league nobody gets sent back to Boston, because they would just be looking to get Hanley off the team along with as much of his contractual obligation as possible.
Anyone can play first base. Tell him, Clint.
The money wouldn’t be even, certainly, but Chris ‘How Can A $25M Contract Be A Disaster’ Johnson is a starting point. Throw money in whatever direction you feel appropriate, and it’s not utter madness.
Never go full Zeke Bonura.
@Pedro Alvarez: It’s incredibly hard.
Yes, and this statement is also overboard “first base, which he probably can’t play but we can’t be sure yet”. I don’t believe that follows at all. He can’t play LF, but moving an infielder to the outfield (or a corner OF to 1B) is really getting into believing in the defensive spectrum without paying attention to particular skills and experience.
Ramirez isn’t a very good defensive SS, but he’s demonstrated enough ability to field grounders and turn double plays that you’d think he’d be able to field and pick the ball at 1B. Playing OF is very different, with a focus on picking up fly balls and taking good routes to them. History suggests that most middle infielders have the athleticism to adapt to doing that, but it’s a lot different than believing that a middle infielder can play 1B.
Yup. I’m a Yankees fan who is pleased at the Ramirez situation but fact is I’m pretty sure he can play 1b and probably pretty darn well. The outfield is an entire different animal and the skills don’t really overlap. Its all about depth perception and first step.
He was a poor but still playable SS very very recently.
And 3b and first base are similar.
Now he’ll need a bunch of reps because the footwork is subtle and he needs to learn what balls to field and which to leave but they’d be crazy to trade him before trying him at first.
I’ve got a bad fielding that Ramirez is going to move to first and be an overpayed but productive player for a few years.
There’s no possible way to get value.
And frankly sending him home was the right move. The year was a stressful, embarrassing disaster.
He needed to get away, clear his head and remember that he’s an elite athlete with amazing offensive gifts.
They won’t find a trade partner and they’ll be happy they didn’t.
This is one of the most tired narratives in baseball right now. Hanley is a terrible left fielder and that — along with his conditioning directives — was a mistake, yes.
I don’t mean to sound harsh, but there’s no convincing, non-clickbaity reason to think he’s guaranteed to be an unplayable first baseman, and these trade proposals are asinine. You think the Twins are gonna trade for Hanley with Mauer, Park*, Plouffe, and Sano on the team? You think the Red Sox value Elvis Andrus and his contract over Hanley’s? It just all feels like a reach, and an extension of some media’s breathless rush to write something sensational over the “bad attitude” thing. Which, yeah, dude failed to run out a ground ball once, but that feels pretty loaded and irresponsible, honestly.
Obviously, I could be wrong. But there’s a lot of precedence for dudes having weird first years of a monster contract and then figuring it out the second year, and unless his shoulder injuries linger, I don’t see any reason why his bat doesn’t bounce back.
Barring some bizarre thing with Joey Votto (which I could maybe see, I’ll admit), none of these trade proposals seem plausible.
Did you watch him make no effort in left field over an entire season? There isn’t a lot of precedent for how atrocious he was in the outfield, and how uninterested he reportedly was in improving. It wasn’t a ‘weird first year’ – it was a historically bad season that caused the Red Sox to decide never to let him in the outfield again. I don’t think that was purely a media rush.
Yeah, no doubt. He was a bad left fielder. Started out abysmal and progressed to very bad by midsummer, then was done. Projected at a UZR/150 of -31.9. Terrible! In 2006, Manny Ramirez had a UZR/150 of -33.6. Also awful. Shin-Soo Choo had a -17.8 in his first year with the Rangers, with a terrible year at the plate.
Hanley is not playing left field next year. You could make a case he’d be better at it 15 pounds slimmer, but I’m not.
He wasn’t just bad at left field. He was so bad at the entire sport of baseball, literally everything about it, that the Red Sox just told him to take the final month off. Not to train or work on anything, but to just stop being on the team. I think that says more than anything he did on the field last year.
Hudson, did you see how he hurt himself? He was HUSTLING, and ran into the wall sitting on 12 rocket home runs in early may.
Sheesh I was disappointed with his play as much as the next person but to say he never hustled is downright stupid
I never said he didn’t hustle, and I fail to see how him running into a wall makes him a good outfielder, or one who attempted to improve.
I didn’t say he was actively trying not to catch the ball, but his reads, reaction times, and first steps are absolutely horrid. Running into a wall doesn’t change any of that.
bdhudson: you specified that he made no effort at all. GoGeTit was pointing out an instance where he made an effort.
Hi bdhudson.
Are you purposely being a toad? Baseball players run into walls all the time. Also, no one is debating you that Hanley Ramirez was a bad outfielder. The context of this article is:
A) Can Hanley Ramirez be a passable first baseman?
B) Can he still hit?
The subtext is:
C) Is he a bad clubhouse guy?
D) Boy, was he a bad outfielder last year. Boy, did that not work out.
He took off September to become healthy, and so the three very good outfielders and the playing-over-his-head-and-rapidly-building-trade-value Travis Shaw could play, which built trade value for a new front office and possibly “established momentum in the young core.”
The fact that you’re parroting the “made no effort” and “was uninterested in improving” bullshit is exactly my point about the tired media narrative. But it doesn’t matter anyway because he’s not playing the outfield again, he’s playing first base.
Think of it this way then: What is his best-case scenario? Or his 90th percentile performance? What are the chances he is not one of the least-valuable defensive players in baseball next year?
fine?
as everyone keeps saying. yes. he was very bad in left field. but the season immediately before that, he was the starting shortstop for the dodgers without killing the team defensively. he wasn’t a *good* defensive shortstop by any means, but it wasn’t anything anybody was actively talking about and the team made the playoffs with him there.
it seems self-evident to me that playing first base is much more similar to playing shortstop without all the hard stuff like “range” and “throws from the hole” than it is like playing left field.
already this offseason i have seen multiple writers state some version of “playing hanley at first base OBVIOUSLY won’t work” but i haven’t seen a single one of them back it up with any detailed, cogent argument as to why yet.
i also think he didn’t suddenly forget how to hit. he ran into the wall and hurt his shoulder and was never the same the rest of the year. that offsets his long career record of hitting? he’s not old. he’s 32 next season. there’s probably some chance the shoulder injury lingers and the effect carries over. but i assume the doctors know what they’re doing and if he needed surgery he would have had it by now.
so, really, this is all silly. there is no problem. keep him. it might actually still wind up being a pretty decent contract.
Agreed completely. The media has been driving this tired ship for months just for something to talk about.
I guess the most depressing thing about it for the Red Sox is if they solve the Hanley Ramirez problem then they have just as big a problem with Pablo Sandoval.
Between Sandoval and Rameriz that is 143mm, that might add up to enough to equalize Pujols contract since he had a little bit of a rebound and only takes up one roster spot instead of two. The Angels could also use a DH too, and Sandoval can play 1st even if Rameriz can’t.
Sandoval is actually the only problem. Hanley at third has value.
Exactly. Hanley at 3rd seemed like a decent signing, if an overpay. Panda at 3rd was horrible, and created a cascade problem in that it moved Hanley to the OF.
Dump Panda, move Hanley to 3rd, that’s the right play. His bat should still play so long as he’s not in M-Cab defensive territory.
^Are you the same boourns who’s in every single Fanduel league?
^Are you the same Michael Scarn in “Threat Level: Midnight”?
Now this is gonna sound crazy, but it just might work: Hanley to the Rockies for the public relations nightmare known as Jose Reyes. The Rox get rid of an almost certain PR distraction and get a guaranteed clubhouse distraction. Have. Boston cover the $$$ difference and throw in a mid range prospect. Dombrowski can take the local PR hit because no one likes Hanley and Sox Nation doesn’t care about law abiding players. Reyes can be a super utility guy for a couple months then can be traded. Or not. Whatever. But HanRam is gone.
Actually, domestic abuse is a crime Boston fans are likely to care about.
I’d still care more about getting rid of Hanley.
I feel sorry for you. Or the women around you.
The point is, are you watching baseball to see the players play the game, or to follow their personal lives?
I could see a rebuilding team taking him on while also getting a top prospect back.
If I were the Brewers, why not add Hanley, whose salary will hurt you during non-contention years anyway, and require Rafael Devers back as well. If Hanley bounces back you could even made trade him again for another prospect.
I disagree. You dont want Hanley’s attitude, work ethic, etc around young impressionable prospects and talents. You want them working their butts off improving. You dont want them seeing Hanley slacking, and still getting huge contracts.
I would expect this is very very unlikely to impact a prospect’s development. Players usually want to actually be good, not just get paid.
You don’t become an elite member of an already elite group by brewing lazy. Hanlley slacked off, if at all, after getting paid. Nobody Is concerned about a broke 20 year old slacking off because of his teammates.
You don’t find a new home for Hanley Ramirez. The Red Sox made their bed and must lie in it.
That said, I think people are underestimating the possibility that Ramirez is a useful player at first base. He got hurt in July last year, hence a first half wRC+ was 116 and a half wRC+ was 13. If healthy, he will hit. He also didn’t have an ugly glove at short in his younger days, it was his range and arm which were unworkable.
Ramirez isn’t going anywhere. He’s going to be worth more to the Red Sox than anyone else, if only because he’s worth nothing at all and can be decent.
Actually Kemp makes the most sense but I imagine the Pads hang on to him after making that acquisition such a big deal a year ago.
I agree with whoever said that Hanley is just as likely to put up a 3+ win season getting out of the OF. It was a stupid contract but no reason to eat $50M this soon.
Isn’t his new home third base in Boston? Sandoval is the problem and has been from the start. The Hanley signing was fine – arguably good. He’s not a gifted infielder, but he has plenty of value there.
Then you sign Sandoval and move him off his position. Bizarre.
Get rid of Sandoval, not Hanley. IMHO.
Wouldn’t sandoval at first base and hanley at third base be better than what they have been doing?
That’s not as clickbaity as OMG TRAID THEM THEIR TOXIC.
(that’s not what Mr. Kory is saying here, of course, that’s more the overall baseball media narrative.)
I wish this piece was “Which Anchor Contracts Could Most Plausibly be Swapped?”.
would be more interesting imo.
This isn’t as difficult as it seems. If the Red Sox agree to pay Ramirez’s entire salary, someone will trade for him, even if all the Sox get back is minor league fodder. So that’s $22 million per year that they’d be stuck paying. But they hey have to pay it now anyway, and that’s the key. The current Major League minimum salary is $507,500. which, conveniently enough, is what they’d have to pay Travis Shaw for 2016. So… they’d be on the hook for $22,507,500 next year rather than an even $22 million. Do you really think the Red Sox care about the extra $507,500? That’s peanuts to them. Or, if they trade Ramirez and pay anything less than $21,492,500 of Ramirez’s 2016 salary, they’re ahead of the game.
Wow, great solution! I’m surprised Dombrowski got the job over you!
If the Sox don’t think he can play 1B and can’t get a deal they like, they can just have him be the world’s most expensive pinch-hitter until Ortiz retires or gets injured and then Ramirez is acceptable as the starting DH.
It’s probably unreasonable to expect Ramirez to continue being a below-replacement player, given that he won’t get the rope to hang himself with in the field to the same degree as in 2015, no matter which team he plays for.
“Here are six teams who could, maybe, serve as trading partners to the Red Sox…”
I count 7: 4 unlikely (Cin Oak Tex SD), and 3 slightly less unlikely (Min Det LAA).
The White Sox might be a decent landing spot (except for a couple things I’ll get to). They have Adam Laroche and John Danks due a combined $28m this year and desperately need offense. They have an opening at third, too, which I imagine may no longer be a good spot for Ramirez, but anything is an upgrade over Mike Olt, Tyler Saladino, and urgg Connor Gillaspie.
Now, the problems are that there’s still $38m to be accounted for and Rick Hahn just recently talked about acquiring “young controllable talent.” Maybe the Red Sox would sweeten the package with $38m worth of young talent?
The White Sox strike me as the most plausible team out there.
Yep. It was weird the Twins with no space for Ramirez were included and White Sox were not. He held down shortstop for the entire 2014 season, albeit subpar defensively. It’s not unreasonable to imagine the 32 year old can play a passable 3rd base.
Could the Angels have a brain fart and give us Mike Trout for Hanley? Please?
I think former Yankee Eppler would be more inclined to trade Trout for Arod
How about Pujols and CJ Wilson for Ramirez and Sandoval? Or package Ramirez with someone useful like Braves did with Melvin Upton and Kimbrel last year.
The Twins have a hole at DH? Don’t they have Miguel Sano, even if they’re making noises about putting him at 3B or the outfield? They also (probably) have Byung-ho Park. And Max Kepler, if there’s no room in the outfield. And Kennys Vargas and Josmil Pinto and Adam Brett Walker and even the aforementioned Oswaldo Arcia. The Twins have DHs coming out of their ears.
Don’t forget about me.
LOL at the Bpston Redsox for that deal!!!!!!!!!
Hanley’s problem in left field was an inability to read fly balls. His problem at shortstop was range. First base should be fine for him. He will probably be a valuable player at first base. I really fail to see why the Redsox have to dump him for nothing or a different headache as the article suggests.
Well, Adam Dunn could play 1B too, but its not what you want. 1B is not as easy as you think. Hanley would be better off playing 3B and the Red Sox dump Pablo the Blimp somehow, perhaps by attaching a top prospect in the deal.
1. Adam Dunn didn’t spend a decade as a major league shortstop. What Adam Dunn can or cannot do is irrelevant to Hanley Ramirez who is a much better athlete.
2. First base is easier than third base. I agree that Hanley would still probably be a decent third baseman. It is where I thought the Sox should have been playing him all along. But your idea that he could play third but not first is strange.
this was the most baffling reply on the thread, thank you for handling it, i was so frustrated by the reasoning i couldn’t figure out what to say so i just threw a sock at my laptop screen and called it a day
I think Hanley gets a bad wrap for his offensive difficulties last year. He was crushing the ball until he hurt his shoulder crashing into the wall. Then later on in the season he hurt his hand getting hit with a LD running to 2B. He was not healthy.
Defensively, well, he was not good. Manny was a GG’er compared to him. Part of that might have been the 25 lbs of muscle he put on in the offseason, which should have had people wondering how he did that. But much like when Crawford bulked up when he signed with Boston, nobody dared speak of this sudden weight gain
The idea Hanley would be nimble enough to play 1B has me LOL and his pitchers and IF’ers weeping. He gone. DD will have to package him with a prospect to avoid having to eat too much salary.
What about packaging the likely negative value of Hanley Ramirez with the surplus value of other Red Sox players?
I’ve proposed the trade of three years of Hanley Ramirez ($66 million), one-plus years of catcher Ryan Hanigan ($4.5 million plus team option) and five years of center fielder Jackie Bradley (including four arbitration seasons as a likely Super Two) to Seattle for one year of first baseman Mark Trumbo (projected arbitration salary of $9.1 million). Facing the luxury tax threshold, the Red Sox would save a net $17 million off the 2016 payroll and would have a defensively adequate first baseman in the high-power, low-OBP Trumbo. The Sox keep Blake Swihart, Christian Vazquez and the recently re-signed Sandy Leon at catcher.
The issue for Seattle would be whether the surplus value of Bradley offsets the likely negative value of the Ramirez contract. The Mariners would probably need to convert Ramirez or Nelson Cruz to first base but otherwise would have an improved defense and a veteran mentor for struggling Mike Zunino.
All I get from this is the Redsox are not the only team with a Hanley Ramirez (aka a player whose contract is expensive and will be ongoing for a while without being seen as a good value).
The difference: The original Hanley is neither the most expensive nor the longest bad contract. So why would the Redsox forelong their problem?
Of course, I’m still not convinced that he can’t bounce back at 1B. Even if that doesn’t work out: One more season and he can be the best DH in the leage. Meaning he’ll give you value for 4 out of 5 years (if he bounce back hitting wise, which seems likely to me).
Here is the thing no one seems to mention about the Hanley Ramirez situation. From Day 1, the signing of Hanley Ramirez was insurance for David Ortiz. The Red Sox offense relies heavily – really heavily – on Ortiz’s bat. He was the best overall hitter on the team, and it wasn’t remotely close. Ortiz’s 138 wRC+ was 20 percentage points higher than Mookie Betts, the second best on the team.
And not only is the Red Sox offense reliant on Ortiz’s bat, but he is about to turn 40 years old, an age few baseball players reach. Because of that, there are no comps we can use to try and forecast is production next year. It is uncharted territory. What would you put the odds of him playing a full year in 2016 at? 75%? 65%? There is a very (very!) real chance that the Red Sox will need to find a new DH and 4 hitter at some point next year.
On Ortiz’s BBREF page, the 4 most similar players to him are Frank Thomas, Fred McGriff, Carlos Delgado and Jeff Bagwell – the last 2 never played past the age of 38, and the other 2 had 1472 and 1005 plate appearances, respectively, after that birthday. Ortiz is right now at 1216.
So Hanley in left field always meant to be a place holder. And him going to 1B is a place holder. And my prediction for what will happen is Ortiz’s career will soon end, either due to injury or ineffectiveness, and he will no longer be the DH. Hanley will become the full time DH, which is what he wants, and every neckbeard in sight will say “Wow, the Red Sox LUCKED OUT!!!11!”, as if that isn’t the exact scenario Cherington and Co. had running through their mind when they signed him.
No. I don’t believe any team would give $22MM/year to assume that he’ll be able to come off the bench 4-5 times a game and be good DH. Look at the numbers. Most players don’t put up the same numbers when at DH.
Right, if they have to swallow a ton of money in any potential deal, they might as just swallow the money and keep him on the team until he is the DH.
White Sox: LaRoche and Danks. and other stuff.
Hanley was a starting shortstop in the Major Leagues for 9 seasons, albeit possibly the worst. He can handle a move to another infield position. I’d bet there will be 10 worse first basemen in Mlb in 2016 than Hanley.
Was really hoping that vernon’s player page had freakin in it. Was disappointed
Super great article. No better strategy than “sell low in the offseason” right? There is no way they move him unless it is part of some other random bonkers deal where the other team thinks they’re coming out with a great bargain and paying for it. But since that is unlikely, they’ll trot him out next year, let Hanley hit some dingers, and see his value rise again.