Five Things I Believe About the 2016 Season

It’s Opening Day 2.0, so in what is becoming an annual tradition, let’s talk about some things I believe about what we’re going to see this year. These aren’t things I can definitively back up with evidence, but they are things that I think could be proven true as the year goes on. You can take them with all the necessary grains of salt, but as we head towards 2016, here are the five things that I believe for this year.

The game’s young hitters will usher in an offensive revival.

Pitching has dominated the sport for the last half decade, as velocities were going up at the same time as the strike zone was growing, making life difficult for the players trying to generate runs on a nightly basis. The rise in velocity isn’t going anywhere, but it seems that MLB may have put the brakes on the strike zone’s growth, and now a remarkable crop of young hitters could turn the game back towards somewhat higher run environments.

We saw the arrival of the new wave of franchise hitters last year: Kris Bryant, Carlos Correa, Francisco Lindor, and Miguel Sano all made their big league debuts, showing early success in the big leagues and providing a tantalizing taste of what they might be able to do if given a full season’s worth of at-bats. This year’s rookie class isn’t going to be as strong, but the sheer quantity of young hitting talent that has reached the big leagues in the past few years may be setting the stage for an offensive revival.

As Jeff Sullivan noted in The 2016 Hardball Times Annual, and Ben Lindbergh and Rob Arthur wrote last week, the second half of 2015 saw a significant spike in home run rate, even though no one really knows why. One possible reason; the young hitters who have flooded the game the last few years are starting to reach their peaks.

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Last year, we saw Bryce Harper and Manny Machado turn into offensive monsters, but there are a host of other talented young players who haven’t yet hit like they could hit. Xander Bogaerts, Marcell Ozuna, and Rougned Odor all have serious breakout potential, for instance. And if enough players like this mature into higher levels of offensive abilities, we could see offense rising around the league. While the crop of young pitching is also terrific, I think we’re going to see the hitters take back some of the ground that run prevention has gained over the last few years.

Mookie Betts will become a superstar.

Over the last few years, Mookie has gone from a pet prospect of the statnerds to a staple of the Red Sox lineup, but 2016 could be the year that Betts becomes an accepted part of the game’s inner circle. The disastrous Red Sox performances over the last two years have overshadowed Betts’ arrival, but with a stronger supporting cast and a chance to contend for a division title, don’t be too surprised if Mookie Betts becomes one of the faces of baseball this summer.

We saw the early stages of his potential superstardom in the final four months of last season, when he hit .315/.361/.525 over his final 429 plate appearances. While maintaining elite contact rates, Betts showed that he can drive the ball consistently, and that power may allow him to develop into an all-around offensive threat.

Remember, Betts was extremely selective in the minor leagues, running walk rates equal to his strikeout rates, but he hasn’t walked as much in the big leagues, as pitchers have chosen to challenge the diminutive youngster instead of pitching around him. With Betts showing he can punish pitches over the plate, I’d expect the scouting report on him to adjust, and Betts walk rate could surge this year. If he continues to hit the mistakes he sees while also seeing a significant spike in his walk rate, Betts may be capable of a .300/.400/.500 kind of season. Toss in his defensive and baserunning value, and Betts could emerge as the best non-Trout outfielder in the American League.

In last week’s Staff Predictions, I initially tabbed Mookie as my selection for AL MVP before changing to Carlos Correa at the last minute, mostly because I’m more confident in Houston’s ability to win the AL West than Boston’s ability to win the AL East. But if the Red Sox experience the revival that our forecasts are projecting, I won’t be too surprised if the emergence of Mookie Betts as a superstar is one of the primary narratives of the year.

The postseason will look very different from last year.

In that Staff Predictions post referenced above, I listed Boston, Detroit, Houston, Washington, Chicago, and Los Angeles as my division winners for 2016; of that group, the Dodgers would be the only repeat winners from last year. And I wouldn’t be surprised if some of the teams with the best records in baseball a year ago ended up missing the postseason entirely this year.

The Cardinals won 100 games last year, but might only be the sixth or seventh best team in the National League this season, as the league is as top-heavy as any in recent history. With so many of the best NL teams loading up for postseason runs, teams like the Cardinals could find themselves on the outside looking in even though they remain a very talented team. The Giants, likewise, have a very good roster — and it’s an even year! — but the NL Wild Card race is going to be brutal, and they’ll have to jump over a few teams that could easily win it all if they make it to the postseason tournament.

Over in the AL, the Blue Jays, Royals, and Rangers are coming off terrific seasons, but all look vulnerable to me; the Jays position players are terrific but aging, and their rotation is full of question marks. They could be great again, and I do think they’ll at least be in the Wild Card mix, but it’s tough for me to see the Jays being the best team in the American League for the second straight year. The Royals and Rangers both relied heavily on sequencing to run up their win totals a year ago, and with talented opponents in their divisions, I expect both to take steps back this year, allowing for the emergence of new young breakout teams in the AL Central and AL West.

Chris Sale will finally get his due.

It’s not that people don’t realize that Chris Sale is an excellent pitcher. He’s been an All-Star for four straight years, and has finished in the top six in Cy Young voting in each of those seasons as well. Sale isn’t some under-the-radar star or anything. But whether it’s because the White Sox haven’t been any good, because everyone expects him to break down at any minute, or because he had the misfortune to be born around the same time as Clayton Kershaw, Sale hasn’t really gotten the recognition for just how great he really is.

This year, though, the White Sox could actually be a contender, and if they make a postseason run, it will likely be the time when everyone acknowledges that Chris Sale is the best pitcher in the American League, and it isn’t particularly close. There are some other great pitchers in the AL, certainly, and I love watching David Price, Chris Archer, Corey Kluber, Dallas Keuchel, and Felix Hernandez as much as anyone, but when you look at how they all stack up, Sale really does stand apart from the pack.

Since Sale moved back into the rotation in 2012, he ranks 1st in the AL in ERA- (72), 1st in FIP- (71), and 1st in xFIP- (73). And the scary part is that he’s getting better. His strikeout rates, by season, since going back to starting full time: 25%, 26%, 30%, 32%. Last year, Sale ran a 64 xFIP-, which is almost Kershaw-esque. Kershaw is remarkable because he not only dominates the strike zone but limits hard contact as well, which Sale doesn’t do as well, but if it weren’t for our generation’s Sandy Koufax over there in LA, we’d be talking about Sale as the best pitcher in baseball.

I’m not entirely sold on the White Sox as contenders this year, but for Sale’s sake, I hope they at least make a run. He deserves the spotlight and the recognition that go along with being as good as he actually is. With some better teammates in place, I think this will finally be the summer that baseball acknowledges Chris Sale as the true ace of the American League.

We’re going to learn something very cool from Statcast.

With MLB hiring Daren Willman over the winter, and deputizing him to continue providing Statcast data to the public, I think he and Mike Petriello will help us all discover something that we didn’t previously know about baseball. Mike’s been writing some excellent stuff for MLB.com since they stole him away from us gave him a well-deserved job, and their access to the full Statcast dataset is allowing them to explore new areas not previously available for analysis.

For instance, this piece on defensive positioning of center fielders scratches the surface of something that could help explain why some players who grade out well by scouts don’t have their defensive reputations supported by the number of balls they actually get to. Being able to quantify how many feet from the wall a player stands on average may give us an idea of why a guy like Kevin Kiermaier grades out so well relative to someone like Anthony Gose, who might have comparable physical tools but hasn’t been as effective to date.

Or maybe it won’t have anything to do with fielding. Maybe it will be something about how quickly a player is able to get up to speed on a ball in the gap, or how a pitcher’s ability to spin a specific pitch in a certain way is a good predictor of future dominance if they move to the bullpen. I don’t know what the breakthrough will be, but given the amount of data that the smart people over at MLBAM are making available, I think someone in the public realm will figure something important out this year. And I can’t wait to see what it’s going to be.





Dave is the Managing Editor of FanGraphs.

98 Comments
Oldest
Newest Most Voted
Brian Cartwright
10 years ago

I had a chance to hang out with Daren & Mike in Phoenix for the SABR Analytics Conference (along w/Eno – what a foursome!).

These guys are super excited about the work they are doing, looking for new insights in the data and ways to visualize them. It will be an exciting time.

Brian ReinhartMember since 2016
10 years ago

As a loyal reader and somebody who wants the FG staff to turn a profit, I hate to ask this, but:

Is anybody else having browser issues with the FG ads? Seems like every day when I open FanGraphs, Flash plugin crashes and burns. Chrome and Firefox are handling my other ad-infused reading OK but FG slows my browsing to a crawl. I’m thinking of universally disabling the plugin. Last week I had to save all the articles to read at home, where my browsers are all safely ad-blockered.

Brian Cartwright
10 years ago
Reply to  Brian Reinhart

Yes!

I use Firefox, and was waiting to close a unresponsive script before I refreshed to see your comment.

Mahoney
10 years ago

I’ve gone from having the occasional unresponsive script on Fangraphs (normally with many other tabs open) to unresponsive script about half the time, even with just Fangraphs open.

Baseball Anagrams
10 years ago
Reply to  Mahoney

One more thing. Can we block that ad showing the serial killer as a child, the one with the hideous teeth? That thing makes my skin crawl.

DavidMember since 2021
10 years ago
Reply to  Brian Reinhart

Yep. I come to this site everyday during baseball season and noticed my web browser run a lot slower when I had a fangraphs page open (I leave multiple tabs open all the time). I downloaded an adblocker because fangraphs has become a cluttered website. Now my web browser runs a lot faster on every website. Fangraphs tried to slow the inevitable clutter of ads as long as possible, but they are now what they tried so hard not to become- a cluttered and slow website.

Brian ReinhartMember since 2016
10 years ago
Reply to  David

I’m a tab hoarder. I’ll open 10-12 tabs of possible reading material. It is a bad habit…

Dave, to atone for this thread hijacking, can I just inform you that your name anagrams to “Arcade Venom”.

Dick Monfort
10 years ago
Reply to  Brian Reinhart

New-Embellished Angler

wildcard09
10 years ago
Reply to  Brian Reinhart

I’m with you, currently have 14 tabs open. I like to initially open up my daily sites every morning, open all the articles I’ll want to read for the day, and slowly work my way through them. I never have an issue with 10+ tabs open, until I make my way to FanGraphs, then my laptop fans start screaming and the computer basically comes to a crawl, and I have to constantly refresh the FG pages every minute or 2 due to crashing.

free-range turducken
10 years ago
Reply to  Brian Reinhart

Mine doesn’t run too badly. But there’s lots of spam comments from some “Damaso” character.

CosmoMember since 2024
10 years ago
Reply to  Brian Reinhart

I’ve got a close to 6 year old Mac at home with a partitioned hard drive running Snow Leopard on one. FG runs really slowly once I hit the comments section. I do need to use disk utility to fix some errors, but FG does run the slowest… on my other Mac running Yosemite, I’ve had no problems. Reading the articles on an iPhone can be tedious when ads pop up.

sabrtooth
10 years ago
Reply to  Brian Reinhart

Yes. I similarly desperately want FG to turn a profit.

The ad experience is unbelievably terrible at the moment. This weekend I checked and a tab with FG continued to burn through over a megabyte a minute in bandwidth after a tab had been open for five minutes.

Here’s a test I just did on the homepage a moment ago:
25 MB in the first 15 seconds.
37 MB in the first 90 seconds.
65 MB (cumulative) in the first 3 minutes.

By far the worst offender is “moatvideo”, but there’s over 3,200 (!!!) web requests made in the first 2.65 minutes.

By comparison, a site with actual image content like The Verge loads a tiny fraction of that and stops frantically loading more content after the initial page load.

Sadly the only way to actually use FG and not be a total freeloader is to use an ad-blocker and then be a contributing member. I have a quad-core i7 laptop and the fan turns on if I have two FG tabs open for more than 30 seconds.

dmlo
10 years ago
Reply to  sabrtooth

The internet ad industry has brought this on themselves with their low-quality resource-intensive ads. The whole internet with an ad blocker is just so much better than without.

That said, proud to support my favourite baseball site by buying a supporting membership.

Jackie T.
10 years ago
Reply to  Brian Reinhart

Yes. It’s awful. I have to use AdBlocker Plus with Chrome, which does a fantastic job of eliminating every ad on the site.

It’s a shame, but the only option for me. I feel less guilty about it now that I can contribute as a Supporting Member.

David AppelmanFanGraphs Staff
10 years ago
Reply to  Brian Reinhart

I will look into see if I can figure out what is causing the slowdown, but in all honesty it can be very difficult to figure out which ads are causing issues.

This is actually the hardest type of offending ad to trouble shoot because it might not impact all browsers / computers the same and it’s hard for me to get any sort of immediate feedback on whether or not what I toggled on or off actually worked.

On the plus side, I believe we’ve managed to stop most of the iOS app store redirects that had been causing issues for a while, so we’re definitely taking proactive steps to try and deal with some of these issues.

In any event, we’ll continue to try and squash problem ads. Hopefully we can do a better job of it.

dorkyrobotMember since 2016
10 years ago
Reply to  David Appelman

The IOS experience has been much, much better of late! Thanks for taking care of that.

Walter
10 years ago
Reply to  dorkyrobot

Yep, given the problems I have with safari, firefox and chrome reading fangraphs, I actually switch to an iOS device to read this site.

Of course, here I am on safari, but I’ll probably just make this comment and close this tab to get my computer back to normal.

Doug LampertMember since 2016
10 years ago
Reply to  Brian Reinhart

Yes, Fangraphs is why I know how to kill a flash application in Chrome. If the page is slow or unresponsive I just assume it’s a flash ad, and kill flash (which I usually allow). [Shift-Escape gets the Chrome task manager.]

Interestingly, its running fine without me killing anything today.

BipMember since 2016
10 years ago
Reply to  Brian Reinhart

Yup, it’s been this way for at least half a year for me I think. Sometimes I turn on adblocker while I’m reading the site, and then when I walk away from my computer I turn it off, reload the page, and let it run.

However, though I’ve put off complaining, it is true that other sites with ads do not kill my browser. I feel this should be a solvable problem.

Moltar
10 years ago
Reply to  Brian Reinhart

On Chrome I have it set to not run any scripts without prompting (Content Settings > Plugins > “Let me choose when to run plugin content”). Any plugin based ads are stopped from running automatically, and it replaces them (and the auto-play video player) with simpler image-based ads that don’t give me any browser issues. Haven’t had a problem with FG since and I don’t have to run the ad blocker.

burts_beadsMember since 2025
10 years ago
Reply to  Brian Reinhart

I’ve had nothing but issues with the ads on here. I finally gave up and removed FG from my adblocker whitelist. I re-enable on occasion to see if it’s any better but nothing yet. If they ever fix it, I’ll gladly whitelist it again.

wildcard09
10 years ago
Reply to  Brian Reinhart

Yep, I use chrome at the office, and I have to reload the pages every minute because they keep crashing. I usually resort to just trying to read an article here and there on my phone when I have the time.

JediHoyer
10 years ago
Reply to  Brian Reinhart

I use my phone and never have problems. I do believe they are moving to a more mobile based platform though.

shadraaq
10 years ago
Reply to  Brian Reinhart

Run Adguard in Mozilla or some other adblocker app. Problem solved.

schneidlerMember since 2016
10 years ago
Reply to  Brian Reinhart

I hear this a lot but I don’t know if I’ve *ever* had this problem. I am on very slow internet in rural Alaska. Buggy scripts, if they exist, usually crush my browsing experience. Maybe I’m not having this problem because I’m using a little chromebook and it is somehow immune to the scripts? I don’t know but everything loads just fine. In the old days when Jeff would have an article with 20 gifs all going at the same time, my internet would struggle to load it, and my chromebook would struggle with how much memory was required for that, but he doesn’t seem to do it that way anymore (You have to click “play” on each vid nowadays).

Brett5
10 years ago

“…it’s tough for me to see the Jays being the best team in the American League for the second straight year.”
By what measure would this be the second straight year of them being the class of the AL? KC had more wins and beat them in the ALCS last year.

JimboMember since 2016
10 years ago
Reply to  Brett5

Run differential

Brett5
10 years ago
Reply to  Jimbo

Ah, thank you.

Twitchy
10 years ago
Reply to  Brett5

I read that as Dave said the Jays were the best team in the AL last year (and by run differential, they most certainly were), and he doesn’t expect that to continue in 2016. Not that the Jays were the best from 2014-2015.

I think Dave is underrating the Jays a bit. The rotation has question marks, though I’d expect Dickey to outproduce his peripherals and for the other guys to keep the Jays in the game with their offence. Beyond that, with their elite defence, the SP will allow fewer runs than peripherals would suggest (like KC last year), allowing them to win more games than FIP/xFIP would suggest. And the lineup definitely has some older, injury risk pieces but I wouldn’t expect the core guys to show much decline this year.

JediHoyer
10 years ago
Reply to  Twitchy

I just don’t see an area on offense where they don’t regress. They are relying on a lot of everyday players in their 30’s and as the Yankees have shown that can backfire. I love stroman but regression from Estrada is certain, I don’t expect as much from dickey because of the knuckleball but then again it’s a hard knuckleball. But gl to them in their last year being competetive for a while

Damaso
10 years ago
Reply to  JediHoyer

they can regress significantly across the board and still be the best offense in baseball.

but if you need to find places where they might not regress, start with Tulo, Saunders, and Travis likely playing much more this year.

JediHoyer
10 years ago
Reply to  JediHoyer

So 3 guys who have been constantly hurt?

EasyenoughMember since 2016
10 years ago

If you just disable the Flash plugin in Firefox, the site runs perfectly and 90% of the ads show up. Or you can use IE, which manages bad Flash better. Ad blocking free content, isn’t a long-term strategy. Using buggy Flash to generate revenue isn’t either…

BipMember since 2016
10 years ago
Reply to  Easyenough

This seems to be helping so far, thanks. I heard Chrome is going to remove flash altogether, is there a way to disable it there? I figured it would at least be something it would ask you first to enable.

wildcard09
10 years ago
Reply to  Bip

Not just chrome, all web content is slowly moving off flash in favor of HTML5, which is simply better and less resource-intense. But yes, Chrome is going to be the first to actually block all flash content.

O'KieboomerMember since 2021
10 years ago

The Boston infatuation never ceases.

CosmoMember since 2024
10 years ago
Reply to  O'Kieboomer

Speaking as someone from Chicago, I’d love to have Betts on my team and I’d trade any of the young guys (although Bryant is a toss up) for him. I love the guy and wish the Cubs had somebody like him.

Damaso
10 years ago
Reply to  Cosmo

i don’t think anyone has a problem with the mookie love, even if projecting mvp calibre performance is a bit of a stretch (especially with him losing the CF positional adjustment this year). the kid is a great player.

raftsox
10 years ago
Reply to  Damaso

He’s still a CF, and will still get the positional adjustment.
I’m a fan, but really think that he is at his absolute ceiling already. Last year he did very well in CF defensively, and you probably shouldn’t take that as a given this year as there are normal up and down seasons going by DRS or UZR. He made a lot of exceptional plays to cover up for Hanley’s terrible defense in LF. One would hope that he doesn’t need to do that this season.

raftsox
10 years ago
Reply to  Damaso

I stand corrected: looks like he’s going to be in RF…I didn’t think he had the arm for that.

JediHoyer
10 years ago
Reply to  Damaso

He is in effect when Bradley starts and center against lefties. So he Will still get partial positional adjustment.

Alex K
10 years ago
Reply to  Cosmo

I love Betts, too, but that seems like an extreme position to take. Straight up I wouldn’t trade Bryant or Russell for him pretty easy. Schwarber, Baez, Soler, any of the prospects are an easy yes, but Boston wouldn’t do that.

I assume we are both leaving Rizzo out of the “young guy” group, because he is also a hard no straight up.

Damaso
10 years ago
Reply to  Alex K

i take betts over bryant and russell, myself.

Curious Gorge
10 years ago
Reply to  Alex K

I guess we agree on something lol

CosmoMember since 2024
10 years ago
Reply to  Alex K

I guess fansbases tend to like their own more than other players of equal caliber. I would say it’s close on Bryant/Russell/Betts in terms of value. What worries me about about the young Cubs is all the strikeouts. They can still be valuable hitter, of course, but it does worry me that there could be too many poor contact guys. Russell’s got a lot of developing to do before he’s Betts’ equal. I can understand not giving up Bryant, that’s why I see it as a toss up, but the rest of the guys… not even close. I would probably give up Rizzo as well. You can then move Schwarber to first and the questions of his defense would be less magnified. It would also give the Cubs a real CF. Well rounded, athletic players are rare, and I would love to see the Cubs get one, or develop one.

Alex K
10 years ago
Reply to  Alex K

Russell is a good SS, he doesn’t have to hit like Betts to be just as, or more valuable. And Bryant has so much more offensive potential than Betts while being fine a 3B. They are both still young, too. It’s close but I wouldn’t think it’s a good idea to trade one of them for Betts.

Rizzo is a hard no because he’s such a polished hitter and still directly in his prime.

I get the Betts love, and agree with it. He’s great. And it may be a little but of homerism why I wouldn’t want to move those players for Betts straight up, but it’s also not even close to an unreasonable position to take.

CosmoMember since 2024
10 years ago
Reply to  Alex K

@Alex K… I’m a Cubs fan and a season ticket holder… and I do get your position and think it’s reasonable. They’re all very close in value that no matter what side you fall on, it’s not all due to homerism.

kbn
10 years ago
Reply to  O'Kieboomer

There’s nothing wrong with writing about exciting players. FG writes about Sale a lot; is that Chicago infatuation? Betts is superlative, and you don’t have to squint very hard to see the potential for even more (especially since his peak is still well ahead of him). It isn’t wrong to spend a moment to dwell on someone who has the potential (but clearly still unrealized) to be a true generational talent. Even if that potential never comes to pass, it’s time well spent.

And for the record, I would be just as happy seeing FG take time to dwell on Russell, or Goldschmidt, or Fernandez, or Arenado. (though for the record, I think that Betts is better than two of those and probably not as good as the other two) I come to fangraphs to read well thought-out content about good baseball players, and Betts more than qualifies.

O'KieboomerMember since 2021
10 years ago
Reply to  kbn

Betts’ impressive talent is disproportionately blabbed about relative to other more impressive players in the league. For instance I guarantee you there are more Betts articles than Carlos Correa + Kevin Kiermaier articles combined.

Luy
10 years ago
Reply to  O'Kieboomer

Since the beginning of last season, fangraphs articles only…

5 articles have been written exclusively about Betts.
7 articles have been written exclusively about Correa.

I didn’t look up Kiermaier, because we’ve already added another data point to my theory that he who cries bias the loudest is most likely to have the strongest bias.

redsoxu571
10 years ago
Reply to  O'Kieboomer

Great players get discussed a lot. Does anyone have a problem with EITHER Betts or Correa being discussed a bunch? The more of them (and many others) I get, the better!

In fact, they were my top two picks on one of my two fantasy teams, so there you go. Fun fun fun all the way.

The one undeniable truth is that there is a small segment of trolls out there who hate all things Boston, and while the hate is their prerogative, making BS claims about bias is not.

terryMember since 2026
10 years ago
Reply to  O'Kieboomer

How small and petty a person one must be to bitch about free (for you, anyway) content.

Tom Dooley
10 years ago
Reply to  O'Kieboomer

For instance I guarantee you there are more Betts articles than Carlos Correa + Kevin Kiermaier articles combined.

Nice guarantee, dumbass.

digitaljm
10 years ago

Hi, I’m having an issue with my custom dashboard. I created the stats i wanted, but whenever i open the players tab i dont have my dash. Can someone please advise where i can access my custom dashboard? thanks!

David AppelmanFanGraphs Staff
10 years ago
Reply to  digitaljm

The custom dashboard only works on the player pages, but if you want to customize the leaderboards, you can scroll to the bottom of the page and choose exactly which stats you’d like to see in a report.

Damaso
10 years ago

“Jays’ rotation has too many question marks….so I’ll pick Boston to win.”

That makes sense.

Here’s how the two rotations have fared over the past 2 seasons, btw:

(WAR = average of ra9war and fipwar pro rated to 32 starts)

SP Stroman (25): 24gs, 77era-, 4.9war —- Price (30): 66gs, 74era-, 5.8war
SP Dickey (41): 67gs, 96era-, 2.4war —– Porcello (27): 59gs, 101era-, 2.3war
SP Happ (33): 57gs, 100era-, 2.6war —— Buchholz (31): 46gs, 111era-, 2.3war
SP Estrada (32): 46gs, 100era-, 1.9war — Kelly (28): 42gs, 112era-, 1.2war
SP Sanchez (23): 11gs, 87era-, 1.9war —- Rodriguez (23): 21gs, 91era-, 3.0war
(SP Floyd (33): 9gs, 73era-, 2.3war —— Wright (31): 10gs, 86era-, 1.4war)
(SP Chavez (32): 47gs, 103era-, 2.3war — Elias (27): 49gs, 106era-, 1.4war )
(SP Hutch (25): 60gs, 124era-, 1.3war —– Owens (23): 11gs, 109era-, 1.8war)

Damaso
10 years ago
Reply to  Damaso

stats as SP only.

Curious Gorge
10 years ago
Reply to  Damaso

yawn…

Damaso
10 years ago
Reply to  Curious Gorge

facts are boring curious gorge.

Curious Gorge
10 years ago
Reply to  Curious Gorge

It’s not the facts that are boring, it’s your continued obsession with the Red Sox that it becoming tired (and that’s saying it lightly).

Damaso
10 years ago
Reply to  Curious Gorge

Unfortunately for you, I find Dave’s (and fangraphs’) red sox obsession fascinating. I recommend not reading my posts.

BipMember since 2016
10 years ago
Reply to  Damaso

You do realize, though, that your Jays are not going to see your tireless defense of them and be motivated to victory. I might go as far as to say it will have no impact on any game outcomes at all…

Damaso
10 years ago
Reply to  Bip

seemed to work last year.

BipMember since 2016
10 years ago
Reply to  Bip

But not, I guess, for the 20 years before that.

Damaso
10 years ago
Reply to  Bip

dammit.

slm12345
10 years ago
Reply to  Damaso

I’m a Red Sox fan and I don’t see why the Red Sox would be expected to have a stronger rotation than the Jays. The Sox probably have more volatility but the median expectation I’d have for the two would be pretty similar.

Damaso
10 years ago
Reply to  slm12345

I think they’re pretty close, but even though my love of stroman knows no bounds (I think he could easily jump into the cy race this year), I’ll admit that Price is a far more dependable rock to build a rotation on at the moment, which gives the Sox an edge.

I just don’t see how that edge can make up for the vast offensive gap.

CM52
10 years ago
Reply to  Damaso

Vast? The projections are giving 23 and 26 WAR to the Sox and Jays batters, respectively. I’m sure you think those are flawed too though. Because of the “obsession.”

And you’re ignoring the bullpens.

redsoxu571
10 years ago
Reply to  slm12345

I think both staffs aren’t as risky as perceived. Stroman looks set to be a boss…he’s incredible. And no model will every properly account for how much of a hurt Ramirez inflicted on the Boston SPs last year defensively (and Sandoval too, and he’s either benched or, if he does earn playing time again, will improve). It was a better rotation than the numbers said.

slm12345
10 years ago
Reply to  redsoxu571

I agree that the defense was an issue. I’m not sold that has changed, with a minor-league 1B at 3B, Swihart at C. I’m also worried about Bogie regressing on the field – he played too well to be true last year almost. Should be a fun season either way.

JimboMember since 2016
10 years ago
Reply to  Damaso

Why would you pro rate the stats? That doesn’t make any sense nor does it tell us anything about the success of the rotations over the past two years. Hey guys Brett Lawrie was a top 5 hitters in baseball in 2011 because I decided to extrapolate his 171 PA over a full season!

Damaso
10 years ago
Reply to  Jimbo

It’s an attempt to turn WAR into a rate stat, for imo more logical comparison.

It’s why I include the sample sizes for necessary reference. the smaller the sample the less reliable the two rate stats are.

BipMember since 2016
10 years ago
Reply to  Damaso

Or, you know, you could just look at the damn depth charts:

http://www.fangraphs.com/depthcharts.aspx?position=SP

Oh yeah, they are biased for the Red Sox and against the Jays though, I forgot.

Damaso
10 years ago
Reply to  Damaso

If I trusted the depth charts, I’d have been just as wrong as everyone else last year. No need to be that lazy.

put it this way – you could remove Donaldson, Bautista, and Encarnacion from the jays lineup and it STILL might be better than the Sox lineup.

Here’s what the two lineups have done the last 2yrs:

Bautista 1339pa, 154wrc+ —— Ortiz 1216pa, 136wrc+
En’cion 1166pa, 150wrc+ ——- Betts 867pa, 121wrc+
Donalds’ 1406pa, 141wrc+ —— Hanley 942pa, 117wrc+
Travis 238pa, 135wrc+ ——— Shaw 248pa, 119wrc+
Tulo 909pa, 129wrc+ ———– Pedroia 1035pa, 105wrc+
Martin 967pa, 127wrc+ ——— Holt 1001pa, 98wrc+
Cola 580pa, 120wrc+ ———– Bogaerts 1248pa, 96wrc+
Saunders 299pa, 117wrc+ ——- Swihart 301pa, 91wrc+
Pillar 750pa, 93wrc+ ———- Bradley 678pa, 74wrc+

Smoak 604pa, 94wrc+ ———– Young 722pa, 102wrc+
Carrera 265pa, 86wrc+ ——— Panda 1143pa, 96wrc+
Goins 621pa, 87wrc+ ———– Hanigan 464pa, 88wrc+
Thole 202pa, 63wrc+ ———– Castillo 329pa, 83wrc+
(Pompey 146pa, 88wrc+ ——— Vazquez 201pa, 70wrc+)

And the jays are the better defensive team, to boot. Last year, the jays current roster position players collected almost double the war the red sox current roster did.

The projections are crazy, imho – there is a huge gap between these two groups of position players.

BipMember since 2016
10 years ago
Reply to  Damaso

Look, no one thinks the projections are perfect, but you haven’t supplied anything close to a reason why what you are doing here should be any better.

Ruben Amaro Jr.
10 years ago
Reply to  Damaso

I agree that the Blue Jays are the better team. But you have to think about the strength of schedule. The Red Sox get to play their home games in Boston, but the Blue Jays have to play their away games on the road. That’s enough of a difference.

Dick Monfort
10 years ago
Reply to  Jimbo

Forget about Lawrie. How about my 10.8 prorated WAR from last season?

Ozzie Albies
10 years ago
Reply to  Damaso

“Name prevyše sputnika rotating pin … So I ë Boston victory.”

Average.

Here’s how they did not come in the last two years year-old, btv:

(Rat is ra9var and fipvar evaluation = 32 starts)

Stroman SP (25): 24Gs, rat 77era –clients-4,9 (30): 66gs, 74era-, Var 5.7
SP Dickie (41): 67gs, 96era-, rat-piggy-2.4 (27): 59gs, 101era-2.3, rat
SP (33): 57gs, 100era- War 2.6 – – Buchholz (31): 46gs, 111era-2.3, rat
SP Estrada (32): 46gs, 100er-1.9-fight Kelly (28): 42gs, 112era, rat-1.2
SP Sanchez (23): 87era, -11gs –Rodriguez Var 1.9 (23): 21gs, 91era-, Var 3.0
(SP Floyd (33): 73era, -2.3, pictures 9GS – – Wright (31): 10GS, 86er-1.4, rat)
(SP Chavez (32): 47gs, Ilija 103era rat 2.3 (27): 49gs, 106er-1.4, rat)
(SP-Hutch (25): 60gs, 124era, rat 1.3 – – Ovens (23): 109era, -11gs 1.8, rat)

'Tungsten Arm" O'Doyle
10 years ago
Reply to  Ozzie Albies

“rat-piggy” lol.

gnicholas
10 years ago
Reply to  Damaso

Pro rating Stroman to make him seem nearly as good as Price is incredibly disingenuous.

Also I’ve seen you endlessly post about how the Red Sox’s older player are unlikely to have bouncebacks, yet apparently 41 year old R.A. Dickey posting his highest WAR since 2011 is reasonable.

Lastly, by using 3 years instead of 2, 4, or 5, you’re including the only year Price had any sort of injury whatsoever, limiting his WAR by a couple tenths.

Damaso
10 years ago
Reply to  gnicholas

not all that disingenuous. the limits of stro’s sample size is clearly an issue. But any jays fan will tell you that watching them side by side last year, it’s not clear which was better.

it would be dickey’s highest by fwar, but one of his lowest but ra9war. And by the writings of none other than Dave Cameron, we know that ra9war is a better number to use for a knuckleballerm In fact, you could argue I’m devaluing dickey by counting his fipwar as much as his ra9war.

and i used 2yrs not 3, so price’s injured year isn’t counted.

kbn
10 years ago
Reply to  Damaso

I’m a fan of RA9 WAR in general as a descriptive stat, but using it predictively (as you’re implicitly doing here) would be incorrect. I realize that FIP and its derived stats sell Dickey (and probably also Estrada) short, but the correct approach there is to asterisk the results rather than use a statistic (RA9) which is actively and deliberately context-sensitive. It’s just not going to be accurate.

As for the offense… Cumulative projected WAR for position players on the Red Sox: 23. Cumulative projected WAR for position players on the Blue Jays: 26.2. That’s not a huge gap, especially since you can cheat things one way or another for factors like JBJ’s surprisingly low defensive projection, Tulo’s low offensive projection (IMO), Donaldson’s (or for that matter, Swihart’s) projected regression(s), etc.

In other words, there’s enough fudge room here that I could see it going either way. I don’t have a problem with the sentence “Jays’ rotation has too many question marks….so I’ll pick Boston to win.”, since it’s true. I also would not have a problem with the sentence “Boston’s rotation has too many question marks….so I’ll pick the Jays to win.”, since it is also true.

Damaso
10 years ago
Reply to  kbn

As i detailed above, the projections for the two groups of position players don’t reflect anywhere close to the recent reality of these players.

Over the past 2 seasons, the jays current active roster position players have out up 60 war, the sox 40. And the sox’ group has done that in almost 10% more plate appearances. There has been a massive gap between the two groups in each of the last 2yrs, and precious little reason to expect anything significantly different this year, imo.

And i don’t think the projections have proven accurate enough in the past that they can trump any other analysis.

Dave Stewart
10 years ago
Reply to  Damaso

I like the way you think Damaso.

kbn
10 years ago
Reply to  Damaso

> And i don’t think the projections have proven accurate enough in the past that they can trump any other analysis.

No, but they’re statistically more accurate than any other a priori prediction mechanism, as their track record is clear on. Comparing projections to actual outcomes shows that the projections have significant error bars, yes, but that’s not what I’m challenging. I’m challenging the fact that you seem to believe that the error bars on other predictive mechanisms are smaller than those on the projections, and history doesn’t back you up. (tl;dr: projections are simply the most accurate a priori analysis, but they are certainly quite inaccurate)

Also looking over the past two seasons and judging WAR produced is completely unfair, since a solid chunk of the Red Sox roster wasn’t even in the majors two seasons ago (or at the beginning of last season, for that matter). Most of Boston’s roster is on the upswing of their careers, and most of Toronto’s is in decline. I think that probably falls under the category of “precious reason to expect anything significantly different.”

Boston’s roster absolutely has problems. I’m not saying I believe the projections that they’re going to run away with the season. But your arguments don’t hold a lot of water.

BipMember since 2016
10 years ago
Reply to  Damaso

And i don’t think the projections have proven accurate enough in the past that they can trump any other analysis.

Your fallacy is not in distrusting the projections, it is from assuming that any old system you pull out of your… hat… must be no worse. It can actually be much worse.

Ozzie Albies
10 years ago
Reply to  Damaso

Inside, the forecast for both players without ventilation position is not close to actually play.

For two seasons, the list of active players battery current location daily to fight, 60, 40 Sok. I Soki added that the images appear close to 10%. There is a large gap between the two groups in both years and very little reason to expect anything different this year, MMO.

I do not think that these estimates prove accurate enough in the past, can nadmalji any other analysis.

Damaso
10 years ago
Reply to  Damaso

Well, imo, when the projections are showing a massive change from a relatively consistent recent performance, I think we have to look very closely and determine for ourselves if that massive change is justified. And I can’t see it.

I don’t mean to be too harsh on the Sox, but i find the take on the sox hitters boggling. There is some upside there, and even the downside isn’t awful, but if you take a step back from the projections and look at what they’ve done the past couple years, I can’t see how you could say they were comparable to arguably the best lineup in baseball.

The Sox best hitter is a 40yr old who woudn’t crack the heart of the Jays’ lineup. The bottom of their lineup if full 4 or 5 deep with guys we’re not even sure are mlb quality regulars. The Sox have only 3 hitters who have been above average hitters in each of the last 2 seasons. Literally only 3 guys that they can depend on to be above average hitters – one is 40 and in his last year, one is a 23yr old in his 2nd season, and one is an oft injured 32yr old who seems to be on the downside. The rest is hoping on bounceback vets, or young guys with short and/or babip inflated numbers.

But really that’s not the issue with the projections – the depth charts project the sox for a team .327woba, about the same as the .325 their active roster has posted over the past 2yrs.

The bigger mystery is why the depth charts projects the .350woba put up by the jays’ roster over the last 2 seasons to drop all the way down to .327, same as the sox. I imagine it’s likely due to the difficulty in handling late breaking career surge guys like donaldson bautista and encarnacion, which is why they continue to project them to drop 20% in performamce every year.

Damaso
10 years ago
Reply to  Damaso

thanks, @Dave Stewart!

Nice to get some support from a real GM, because man Ben Cherington won’t quit ripping on me for questioning the projections.

BipMember since 2016
10 years ago
Reply to  Damaso

You’ve identified a potential systematic blindspot: late-peak guys. If it is true that hitters who bloom very late in their careers also decline later or more gradually than the typical hitter, that can definitely be studied, and if it bears out, used to improve the projections.

However that so totally still does not make your method–just looking at last year’s numbers–any better. It is still likely much worse.

Damaso
10 years ago
Reply to  Damaso

@kbn

“Also looking over the past two seasons and judging WAR produced is completely unfair, since a solid chunk of the Red Sox roster wasn’t even in the majors two seasons ago (or at the beginning of last season, for that matter). Most of Boston’s roster is on the upswing of their careers, and most of Toronto’s is in decline. I think that probably falls under the category of “precious reason to expect anything significantly different.””

1. actually the red sox active roster has significantlh more collective plate appearances than the jays do over that time, as I pointed out.

2.is the majority of the red sox lineup really on the upswing? Ortiz, Pedroia, Ramirez, Sandoval, Young, Holt, Castillo, Hanigan are 8 of the 13, a majority, and they’re all past the peak of the age curve. Bradley and Shaw are pretty much at the peak of the age curve, and we’re not sure either is a starting quality mlber yet. Betts, Bogaerts, Swihart – 3 of the 13 – are the only ones that can really be described as on the upswing – and two of them have their work cut out for them to make up for the likely babip drop from last year.

Damaso
10 years ago
Reply to  Damaso

@bip

last 2yrs numbers, not just last year’s.

and it’s not just that the jays last 2yrs numbers are better, but more how much better they are. the difference is eye popping to me.

kbn
10 years ago
Reply to  Damaso

Boston’s roster is depending on some bounceback, yes. They’re dependent on Ortiz putting up another Ortiz-like season, which at 40 seems like a stretch, but given his track record. In any case, if you’re going to give half the Jay’s lineup the benefit of the doubt in terms of decline (based on *their* track records), you need to do the same for Ortiz.

Also, Ortiz last year put up a wRC+ of 138, which is on the low end of his career norms, but given that he was 39… sure. That’s better than all but three of the Blue Jays qualified hitters (in 2015). Ortiz certainly wouldn’t be hitting cleanup for the Jays, but I’d be surprised if he wasn’t hitting fifth. Suggesting that he wouldn’t “crack the heart of their order” is extremely disingenuous.

At any rate… There’s no question that the Jays lineup is better offensively. However, their defense is much worse (even with Donaldson obliterating all comers at third and Pillar being quietly awesome), as is their base running. A good chunk of their WAR disappears into that vacuum. But that’s basically accurate when evaluating position players. And especially since you’re putting an asterisk on Dickey and Estrada, giving them credit for their contact management, you can’t just ignore team defense.

is the majority of the red sox lineup really on the upswing? Ortiz, Pedroia, Ramirez, Sandoval, Young, Holt, Castillo, Hanigan are 8 of the 13, a majority, and they’re all past the peak of the age curve. Bradley and Shaw are pretty much at the peak of the age curve, and we’re not sure either is a starting quality mlber yet. Betts, Bogaerts, Swihart – 3 of the 13 – are the only ones that can really be described as on the upswing – and two of them have their work cut out for them to make up for the likely babip drop from last year.

I’m not sure you know what “peak” means. Holt is just prior to his peak (he’s entering his 27th year right now). Sandoval would be exactly at his peak if he didn’t roll over age curves, so that’s a fair point. Castillo is exactly at his peak. Young and Hannigan are platoon/bench players. Of the players you listed, only Ortiz, Pedroia, Ramirez and maybe Sandoval are both past their peak AND actually going to receive a large number of PAs. But moving forward with peaks… Bradley is 25 and inarguably yet to reach his peak, at least in terms of any age curve. Shaw is the same age and the same arguments apply, especially since he only reached the majors last year. Bogaerts is certainly going to see a BABIP drop, though remember he played through a wrist injury for the entire year, so his hitting is likely to improve outside of luck. Swihart was also smiled upon by the BABIP gods, but if you’re really picking nits, he also put up extremely impressive second-half numbers even after you adjust for luck (numbers that are overshadowed by his wretched first half).

But really that’s not the issue with the projections – the depth charts project the sox for a team .327woba, about the same as the .325 their active roster has posted over the past 2yrs.

I would take last year’s wOBA in a heartbeat. The Red Sox had top 10 offensive production last year even including their first half, which was awful and featured players who were subsequently traded, DFA’d or benched. Their second half was impressive. The team stank because the bullpen was awful and the starting pitchers alternated between bad and “barely average”.

At any rate, you’re still arguing that looking at prior year records and “making a guess” is better than trusting the projection systems. Considering that the projection systems do precisely this, but weight the guess based on a small mountain of statistical evidence and careful tuning (as opposed to literally just guessing), I’m going to go with the projection systems on this one.

Damaso
10 years ago
Reply to  Damaso

“Boston’s roster is depending on some bounceback, yes. They’re dependent on Ortiz putting up another Ortiz-like season, which at 40 seems like a stretch, but given his track record. In any case, if you’re going to give half the Jay’s lineup the benefit of the doubt in terms of decline (based on *their* track records), you need to do the same for Ortiz.”

I gave the same benefit of the doubt to all of them.

“At any rate… There’s no question that the Jays lineup is better offensively. However, their defense is much worse (even with Donaldson obliterating all comers at third and Pillar being quietly awesome), as is their base running. A good chunk of their WAR disappears into that vacuum. But that’s basically accurate when evaluating position players. And especially since you’re putting an asterisk on Dickey and Estrada, giving them credit for their contact management, you can’t just ignore team defense.”

The Jays defense is significantly better than the red sox defense, though.
.

“I’m not sure you know what “peak” means. Holt is just prior to his peak (he’s entering his 27th year right now). Sandoval would be exactly at his peak if he didn’t roll over age curves, so that’s a fair point. Castillo is exactly at his peak. Young and Hannigan are platoon/bench players. Of the players you listed, only Ortiz, Pedroia, Ramirez and maybe Sandoval are both past their peak AND actually going to receive a large number of PAs. But moving forward with peaks… Bradley is 25 and inarguably yet to reach his peak, at least in terms of any age curve. Shaw is the same age and the same arguments apply, especially since he only reached the majors last year.”

Baseball Age this season: Panda 29, Holt 28, Castillo 28, Bradley 26, Shaw 26.

Generally not consideree “upswing” years imo.

“I would take last year’s wOBA in a heartbeat. The Red Sox had top 10 offensive production last year even including their first half, which was awful and featured players who were subsequently traded, DFA’d or benched. Their second half was impressive. The team stank because the bullpen was awful and the starting pitchers alternated between bad and “barely average”.”

underlying numbers suggest that both the hitting and pitching were average last year, but with fenway boosting the offensive numbers and hurting the pitching numbers.

this year I’d expect an average offense and above average pitching.

“At any rate, you’re still arguing that looking at prior year records and “making a guess” is better than trusting the projection systems. Considering that the projection systems do precisely this, but weight the guess based on a small mountain of statistical evidence and careful tuning (as opposed to literally just guessing), I’m going to go with the projection systems on this one.”

There’s no guesses being made. Just an observation of what the 2 rosters have done over their most recent large sample.

But yeah, I don’t think there’s anything crazy about looking at 2yrs worth of numbers, that don’t exhibit much in the way of luck or unsustainability, and not just tossing them away in favor of projection systems which project wild swings in performance and have done a very poor job of projecting these 2 teams the past few years. The projections would need a much better track record of success for me to believe them projecting such a massive change in performance.

Adam SMember since 2016
10 years ago

On the actual article, I think the post-season will look more similar than different than last year.

The NL is still 7 teams fighting for 5 spots. Math says it won’t be the same 5 teams, but likely 4 of 5 repeats. We could certainly see three different division winners in the AL from last year, but no one who made the playoffs isn’t a strong contender.

Paul22
10 years ago

“but given the amount of data that the smart people over at MLBAM are making available”

Who are they making it available to and where? It seems only writers at mlb.com and mlb network. This is why you break up monopolies

John DiFool2
10 years ago

I’ll just point out (and note I love the guy and am in general as optimistic as you) that Betts didn’t walk a single time this spring training. Still hit very well otherwise tho.

Ivdown
10 years ago

As always, I really enjoyed that in an article or a section not actually about Clayton Kershaw, I still get to read about how incredibly great he is 🙂

I hope you are right about Sale in that he finally breaks through to a Cy Young. Here’s hoping he brings back down his ERA to get more votes.