Hitters: Quit Chopping Wood, Don’t Go for Backspin

Around little-league parks, and even on the back fields of certain schools and organizations, you might hear a common refrain from the batting cages. “Chop wood, chop wood,” is how Bryce Harper mimics the coaches he’s heard before. The idea is that a quick, direct path to the baseball — like an ax chop — is the best way to get quickly to the ball and create the backspin that fuels the power.

Turns out, pretty much all of that is wrong.

Where do you start with a thing like this? Let’s start first with the idea that backspin is something hitters should be focusing on. It isn’t.

“It works in batting practice,” laughed Evan Gattis when we talked about backspin. “It’s great then.” Brandon Moss agreed. “In batting practice, backspun balls go forever, so you think that’s the most efficient way to hit it,” Moss practically yelled. “I do not want backspin. I want my ball to go up, and I kind of want it to draw. That means I got behind it and stayed on it.”

There’s science behind what they are saying, too. Alan Nathan studied the effect of batted ball spin on batted ball distance this year in a closed environment, and found very little effect of the spin on the distance. “There is remarkably little variation in fly-ball distance due to variation in spin, largely due to the increase of drag with increasing spin,” is how the paper summarized the effect. More spin means more drag and less distance.

But there’s another reason that trying for backspin is a bad idea. Moss gets at it: “I don’t like backspin because I’m clipping it, and if I’m clipping it, I’m in and out of the zone.” Gattis said something very similar. “You’re going to cover more if you get your hands down to the zone first. You have to match that. You’d have to hit it so perfectly if you were chopping wood.”

Open it up, and you’ll hear others say the same thing.

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Bryce Harper: “If you look at the best swings in baseball, it’s through the baseball as long as you can.”

J.D. Martinez: “I used to always think ‘hit down on the baseball’ and after studying everyone’s swings, I changed that, because that’s not what other people are doing. They’re doing what feels like an uppercut.”

Jimmy Rollins: “[The ax bat] makes you swing down like an ax. And that’s isn’t really a baseball swing. That’s the difference between a bat and an ax — with the ax, there’s one part, the blade, but with a bat, it’s round. You can use any part of the bat to hit.”

Brandon Moss: “Don’t chop wood. Terrible. It’s a short swing, but it’s a swing that takes absolute perfect timing. You have to be so precise. If you don’t hit it right, you clip it. It’s on the ground, or it’s a foul out, or it’s a backspun fly ball which goes nowhere. Match your shoulders and your hips with the barrel of the bat.”

Josh Donaldson: “Depending on the angle of the pitches, it’s going to change the angle of how my body is going to be at impact. If I’m hitting a low pitch, to get it in the zone, I’m going to [have a lower back shoulder], and I’m going to be into my legs and matching it with my lower half.”

None of that sounds like chopping wood.

“The longer I can stay on the plane of that baseball, the better I’m going to be at hitting it,” said Brandon Moss finally to finish our conversation about chopping wood. And that’s really the problem with it. If you’re chopping wood, you’re trying to get your bat to a single spot in space and time. If you concentrate instead on getting your hands down to the zone quickly, and then being level through the zone, you allow yourself more time to adjust to the changing path of the baseball.

“Sharp line drives”: that’s what Evan Gattis wants. And you don’t get that from chopping to the pitch and thinking about meaningless backspin.





With a phone full of pictures of pitchers' fingers, strange beers, and his two toddler sons, Eno Sarris can be found at the ballpark or a brewery most days. Read him here, writing about the A's or Giants at The Athletic, or about beer at October. Follow him on Twitter @enosarris if you can handle the sandwiches and inanity.

46 Comments
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crazycorgi
11 years ago

Elvis Andrus.

Eno Sarris
11 years ago
Reply to  crazycorgi

He might *actually* be trying to hit the ball into the ground.

Eric Hosmer
11 years ago

You still here, bro?

Jack Cecil
11 years ago

hallelujah

eckmuhl
11 years ago

A thousand times, this.

Johnson
11 years ago

The one thing I don’t get. “The longer I can stay on the plane of that baseball, the better I’m going to be at hitting it”. But if the pitch isn’t a straight fastball, doesn’t the plane of the ball change? Which means, it requires sort of the same “perfect timing”?

ReuschelCakes
11 years ago
Reply to  Johnson

Not necessarily… it just means that pitch recognition is important. Or said differently, determining the plane of the pitch is important to staying on the plane.

Buck Compton
11 years ago
Reply to  Johnson

No. You match the plane of your swing to the plane of the pitch. If you recognize CB, you match the plane as best you can. If you get fooled and are too late to adjust, that’s just baseball, but at least your bat will stay in the zone longer, increasing your chance of fouling it off.

cirlechange11
11 years ago
Reply to  Buck Compton

… and you can change your plane with hip tilt, etc.

The idea that the ‘better” the swing, the longer the barrel is in the zone. The more extreme the C-path, the less time the barrel is in the zone and/or less time/chance it has to strike the baseball solidly.

I was unaware that focusing on spin was still an issue. I thought this had been dead since the days of Ted Williams.

I do like that some players have said that they don;t necessarily listen to what players say they do, but look at what they actually do (film study). People say a lot of silly shit … but many hitters do very much in common mechanically.

Lee TrocinskiMember since 2016
11 years ago
Reply to  Johnson

The plane is not parallel to the ground. The ball is always in a fairly constant trajectory between 5 and 15 degrees downward, if it’s in the strike zone. You still have to diagnose the type of pitch, but swinging upward keeps the bat in the hitting zone much longer, no matter the pitch.

cirlechange11
11 years ago
Reply to  Lee Trocinski

Exactly.

If you “swing level” (like almost every little league dad erroneously says) on a downward plane pitch (essentially all of them in baseball) … then you are pretty much only going to hit ground balls … even with shorter pitchers and flatter trajectories.

jdbolickMember since 2016
11 years ago
Reply to  cirlechange11

Well that is totally untrue. A perfectly flat swing path against a fastball with the average 5 degree downward angle will result in either line drives or fly-balls more often than ground balls.

jdbolickMember since 2016
11 years ago
Reply to  Johnson

It requires adjustment of your swing, which is precisely what Donaldson described.

tz
11 years ago
Reply to  jdbolick

And Moss’s last sentence, in reference to any difference in the ball’s movement.

Jetsy Extrano
11 years ago
Reply to  Johnson

Yes, it does require adjusting, but the range of incoming angles that pitchers achieve is limited.

Mike Fast and Matt Lentzner had a great article showing that pitches with extreme angles are harder to hit. … Found it:
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=13273

free range turducken
11 years ago

Didn’t Jimmy Rollins once test-drive an axe-shaped bat?

ReuschelCakes
11 years ago

Haha, yes. It is very clear from the quote that Rollins does not like the wood-chop swing. It is very much UNclear if he understands why.

I am
11 years ago

Pedroia used this year, too. Google it. It is pretty interesting.

I am
11 years ago

There is the Axe Bat, that has really nothing to do with this article about the “chop wood” swing approach. The Axe Bat has a handle build like an Axe handle. Flush on one side, and rounded on the back. Supposedly this puts less strain on the hamate bone in you hand. It also makes it so the “good” part of the bat can be centered since you can only hold the Axe Bat one way.

Eno Sarris
11 years ago
Reply to  I am

Actually I stole that quote from a QA I did with Rollins about the Axe bat. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/jimmy-rollins-on-yoga-change-and-lineup-protection/

So he was talking about the axe bat, but I thought what he said was relevant because he said the bat handle made him chop wood, which wasn’t a baseball swing.

Teds Disciple
11 years ago
Reply to  Eno Sarris

I’ve used the Axe bat myself. Though not a professional player but with 20 years of competitive ball under (now over) my belt, I can say that the Axe bat was very comfortable swinging at first grip. I have used an uppercut swing my whole life and this bat doesn’t change the plane of your swing, it merely releases pressure of the torque the swing generates on the physiology of the hands. In my opinion, the handle allows for an increase in swing force (or release) through the zone as the grip is more natural in terms of bringing the bat through the zone.
I’ve known plenty of ball players who would not hesitate to blame a bat if they went o’fer. I am sure Rollins is no different.
Pedroia likes his, I am pretty sure of that.

jwise224Member since 2024
11 years ago

As per usual, great stuff here, Eno. I’ve been doing some research with the help of Jerry Brewer’s work at East Bay Hitting Instruction. Learning the nuances of swing planes, shoulders and hips really helps. And as Moss put it, staying on the plane of the baseball makes a ton of sense and evaluating swing plane really helps put the hit tool into better focus.

Here’s part one of his Swing Plane series: http://eastbayhittinginstruction.com/swing-plane-part-one.html

Jim Price
11 years ago

Ted Williams said the same thing 50 years ago, you need a slight uppercut swing to match the path of the pitch, also if he squared it up, he wanted his swing path to ensure he would get the ball in the air and drive it.

Green Mountain Boy
11 years ago
Reply to  Jim Price

Hahahahaha… you beat me by 7 minutes!

Green Mountain Boy
11 years ago

Isn’t this conclusion the same thing Ted Williams was saying 60-70 years ago? That you need to swing with a slight uppercut to match the downward trajectory of the incoming pitch? The modern day version of which is staying on the plane of the baseball for as long as possible.

It kills me the damage Charlie Lau and Walt Hriniak did to a generation of hitters, from Little League to High School & College to Professional baseball. And those hitters passed along the same faulty advice to the next generation. So now we have a bunch of guys 6’2″, 210 lbs, and they can’t hit 15 HR per year unless they strike out 150+ times.

Look up how big Hank Aaron and Willie Mays were… er, weren’t. It’s amazing. A copy of Ted Williams’s “The Science of Hitting” should be required reading for anyone who wants to teach it at any level.

Brian
11 years ago

We still have those guys. Look at Jose Bautista, Ryan Braun, and Andrew McCutchen; they’re hardly physically imposing but they’re three of the most prolific HR hitters of that past 5-10 years. It’s also a completely different game so hard to compare apples to oranges.

Slacker George
11 years ago

“Hi, I’m Tom Emanski. You may remember my instructional video series “The Nine Commandments” from the 1990s. After years of research and refinement, I’m ready to introduce a new commandment, a Tenth Commandment, to my series: “Hitting for Distance: Imparting Knuckle-ball Spin.”

BenH
11 years ago

Should this really be surprising? Tennis players use backspin to create slower, airier shots. And they use frontspin to slam the ball. I know speed isn’t the same as distance, but they are correlated.

I am curious. Does the spin data take into account frontspin? When a batter, like Chris Davis, gets way in front of a ball, it seems like those get a lot more of distance relative to the effort of the swing.

David
11 years ago
Reply to  BenH

by “frontspin” I guess you mean topspin? A tennis ball has a whole different kind of air resistance from a baseball, plus there’s the problem of how a ball with extra spin bounces, that is completely different, so spin is radically more important.

AB
11 years ago
Reply to  David

Plus tennis players use topspin because it makes the ball sink. It goes up slightly to clear the net, then sinks to land in bounds. If they hit a hard forehand shot with no spin, it’d go out over the end-line.
And also the topspin helps it retain velocity after the first bounce, making it harder to return.

ShinyThing
11 years ago
Reply to  BenH

Your bat speed increases the further out your swing is. That’s why it is so difficult to drive the ball the other way, because you have less bat speed then you would have pulling the ball.

Although if you are way out in front, it’s harder to square up the ball.

ShinyThing
11 years ago

This article is fantastic. The down, or level swing has sabotaged a lot of young players. It’s funny that the players who actually follow the advice of coaches who preach the down swing are hurting themselves by listening to their coaches.

Ichiro
11 years ago

I swing best

Alan Nathan
11 years ago

Good article by Eno and good discussion by everyone else.

jim fetterolf
11 years ago

Kevin Seitzer has been a big proponent of “chopping wood”. May be what ruined Billy Butler. Some have been flogging this horse for a few years now, good to see conventional wisdom looking at swings. As Ted Williams said, “A pulled 380 foot line drive is out of most parks.” 10* up angle, get ahead of the pitch, greater bat speed and shorter part of the park.

Phil the Thrill
11 years ago
Reply to  jim fetterolf

Really? I watched a lengthy video of him talking to Braves minor leaguers and I can’t remember hearing him use that term.

jim fetterolf
11 years ago

Fairly constant theme in KC. He may have changed, going to different parks with different types of talent.

jobu
11 years ago

why does it work in batting practice if spin has no effect?

Brian L
11 years ago
Reply to  jobu

Guys can more consistently time the downswing perfectly in batting practice. I doubt the mechanics/physics of it are any different, they just can execute that swing better on BP meatballs with no curve.

John Lakeman
11 years ago

It would be interesting to hear ARod’s thoughts on this subject. He comes to mind as one of the most successful hitters to use very little to no upward angle in many of his best swings (home runs).

CT
11 years ago
Reply to  John Lakeman

I encourage you to take a look at slow-mo video of ARods swings. I guarantee you see is barrel going up to hit the ball on a HR, not down.

kwyjibo
11 years ago

Mike Krukow loves to talk about backspin when batters really get into a ball hit for a home run. He’s still one of the best broadcasting out there but that has been a slightly annoying trait of his this year.

Jason
11 years ago

The more more important question here is… how should I apply this to my so very important slow pitch beer league swing?

Alan Nathan
11 years ago

Some additional comments:

I think if you look at the data from the various bat sensors that track the trajectory of the bat as it is swung, you will find very few (if any) elite hitters for whom the bat is moving on a downward plane at the moment of impact. Rather, it is moving on an upward plane. If the bat is swung on the same plane as the incoming ball and is “squared up”, the ball will go out on roughly the same angle it came in (~8-10 degrees for a fastball). It will be a line drive with not a lot of spin. If you want both a greater launch angle and more backspin, the bat should meet the ball below the center of the ball. It is not necessary to swing on a downward plane to get backspin. It can be achieved on an upward plane, using the ball-bat offset to get the desired launch angle and spin. As others have pointed out, swinging the bat on same upward plane as the ball is moving is much more forgiving if timing is slightly off. Not so for a downward swing (or even for a severe upward swing).

Paul
11 years ago

I think the big issue with staying “on plane” is that it requires only a slight uppercut (around 10 degrees as others have posted), and most people will overshoot this. A 10 degree upswing is very close to the flat wood chop swing.

But if you tell somebody to swing with a slight uppercut I guarantee you it will have much more than a 10 degree trajectory.