Hitters Shouldn’t Swing Against Jacob deGrom
Jacob deGrom is on another planet right now. You don’t need me to tell you this, but it’s fun to just marvel at his stats. Through 10 starts, deGrom has a 0.56 ERA, a 46% strikeout rate, and a 4% walk rate. He’s produced 3.7 WAR, which is nearly a half-win better than the next-best pitcher, Corbin Burnes, who has “merely” put up 3.3.
deGrom is quite possibly in the midst of one of the best pitching seasons in baseball history, particularly on a per-inning basis. Pedro Martinez’s 1999 campaign currently holds the single-season pitching WAR record at 11.6, and though deGrom almost certainly won’t hit that mark, he’d blow it away if he pitched the same number of innings at his current rate. Give deGrom Martinez’s 213.1 innings, and at this pace, he’d put up 12.3 WAR. Say what you will about injuries and starting pitching workloads in this era, but that’s just a primer on the level of dominance deGrom has reached so far in 2021.
So if you’re a hitter stepping in against deGrom, how in the world do you get a hit off this guy? Batters are slashing just .121/.152/.220 against him, good for a .163 wOBA allowed. That’s the best mark among the 294 pitchers with at least 100 batters faced this season, and deGrom has more than doubled that threshold (223 TBF). If you’re hitting against deGrom, you’re lucky if you just put the ball in play, let alone get on base.
Is there an alternative strategy that works here? deGrom is raking up all of these strikeouts — without allowing virtually any walks — while boasting the seventh-lowest Zone% in baseball. Hitters are flailing against pitches that aren’t even strikes anyway: 60.5% of the time, deGrom is throwing the hitter a ball. If you’re in a two-strike count, he’ll throw you a ball 64.5% of the time, putting him in the 91st percentile in O-Zone%.
As you’ll notice, deGrom isn’t at the exact top of the charts in O-Zone%, even with two strikes. But deGrom is unique (when is he not?) because he is by far the most dominant pitcher after reaching a two-strike count. Of the 228 pitchers who have reached two-strike counts in 100 different plate appearances this season, deGrom’s .151 wOBA allowed is more than 30 (!) points lower than the next-best mark, posted by Tejay Antone (.181). Take a look at this scatterplot comparing two-strike O-Zone% and wOBA allowed after getting to two strikes:

The only other pitchers even in deGrom’s ballpark are Giovanny Gallegos and Mark Melancon, both relief pitchers who only have faced 20 more hitters combined than deGrom alone (243 for Gallegos plus Melancon vs. 223 for deGrom). The only other pitchers with 200 batters faced who are even relatively close to deGrom in either O-Zone% or wOBA allowed are Kyle Gibson (66.2% O-Zone%, .248 wOBA) and Brandon Woodruff (52.0% O-Zone%, .183 wOBA).
Because of deGrom’s near-the-top O-Zone% in two-strike counts as well as his best-in-the-majors wOBA allowed after reaching two strikes, should hitters just… never swing? This isn’t the first time this thought exercise has been entertained; this March, Maxwell Bay wrote an interesting article asking the same question about Shane Bieber on the FanGraphs community page. One big difference between 2020 Bieber and 2021 deGrom, though, is their respective walk rates: Bieber walked 7.1% of hitters last season, while deGrom has walked just 3.6% this year. But it’s not solely about the results: Bieber’s overall Zone% last year was 34.0%, while deGrom’s this season is 39.5%. Considering the difference in the two pitchers’ walk rates, perhaps hitters aren’t taking enough against deGrom in actuality.
Ultimately, though, does the same logic apply here? Should hitters just go up to the plate against deGrom with the take sign on in every situation? My friend Jeremy Frank approached me with this question and some data to support the answer. Looking specifically at the two-strike counts, here’s the probability that each hitter will walk — and the associated wOBAs — after getting to each count versus deGrom:
| Count | Zone% | Walk Prob | wOBA Taking | Count wOBA | wOBA Diff | wRAA/600 Diff |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0-2 | 28.6% | 12.6% | .087 | .088 | -.001 | -0.3 |
| 1-2 | 27.5% | 17.7% | .122 | .063 | .059 | 28.7 |
| 2-2 | 48.5% | 24.4% | .169 | .089 | .080 | 38.6 |
| 3-2 | 52.6% | 47.4% | .328 | .269 | .059 | 28.4 |
In each row we have the data for each count, including the Zone%, the probability of working a walk, the expected wOBA doing nothing but taking, deGrom’s wOBA allowed after reaching said count, the wOBA difference, and how many more runs each hitter would be expected to produce over 600 plate appearances by only taking versus actually hitting. The probability of working a walk is a simple calculation, using conditional probability with deGrom’s Zone% by count to get the hitter to a walk. If you’re at 0-2, for example, you’d need deGrom to throw you a ball four times in a row, on each of the 0-2, 1-2, 2-2, and 3-2 counts. That walk probability accounts for all of his observed Zone% figures.
This look at deGrom’s tendencies assumes that everything is independent, which obviously isn’t a fair assumption given that he’s likely to change his tendencies based on each individual plate appearance. But the data clearly show that there might be some method to this madness, similar to how hitters would be much better off not swinging at any of Bieber’s pitches, as Bay showed. In fact, looking across all plate appearances, in order to produce better results against deGrom than hitters have so far, you would “only” need to walk in more than 23.6% of plate appearances. If you think it’s more likely deGrom will throw you four balls than three strikes more than 23.6% of the time, it is better to always take.
We can do a similar exercise for all major league pitchers, focusing particularly on those two-strike counts. How much does deGrom separate himself from the pack? Are there other pitchers for whom taking every pitch is a viable strategy? Similar to deGrom, I went count-by-count. Here are the five best pitchers to take against in each two-strike count. There are definitely some tiny samples here, but it’s still interesting to see the results so far.
First, 0-2:
| Name | Count | Walk Prob | wOBA Taking | Count wOBA | wOBA Diff |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| J.P. Feyereisen | 0-2 | 26.1% | .181 | .033 | .149 |
| Triston McKenzie | 0-2 | 24.0% | .167 | .045 | .122 |
| Jose Quintana | 0-2 | 18.8% | .130 | .037 | .093 |
| Josh Hader | 0-2 | 11.2% | .078 | .000 | .078 |
| Pierce Johnson | 0-2 | 12.3% | .085 | .029 | .056 |
Next, 1-2:
| Name | Count | Walk Prob | wOBA Taking | Count wOBA | wOBA Diff |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Framber Valdez | 1-2 | 29.8% | .207 | .107 | .100 |
| Dan Winkler | 1-2 | 31.6% | .219 | .133 | .086 |
| Jacob deGrom | 1-2 | 17.7% | .122 | .063 | .059 |
| Joe Jiménez | 1-2 | 23.3% | .162 | .104 | .058 |
| Andrew Kittredge | 1-2 | 19.9% | .138 | .081 | .057 |
Third, 2-2:
| Name | Count | Walk Prob | wOBA Taking | Count wOBA | wOBA Diff |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Rafael Montero | 2-2 | 36.0% | .250 | .159 | .091 |
| Dan Winkler | 2-2 | 51.1% | .355 | .264 | .091 |
| Tyler Kinley | 2-2 | 27.8% | .193 | .108 | .085 |
| Jacob deGrom | 2-2 | 24.4% | .169 | .089 | .080 |
| Andrew Kittredge | 2-2 | 29.6% | .205 | .129 | .077 |
And, finally, 3-2:
| Name | Count | Walk Prob | wOBA Taking | Count wOBA | wOBA Diff |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Trevor Richards | 3-2 | 44.0% | .305 | .086 | .219 |
| Alex Cobb | 3-2 | 58.8% | .408 | .222 | .186 |
| Joe Musgrove | 3-2 | 58.8% | .408 | .229 | .180 |
| Gregory Soto | 3-2 | 64.0% | .444 | .270 | .174 |
| Marcus Stroman | 3-2 | 44.1% | .306 | .161 | .145 |
Then, we can take an average of each of the wOBA differences by count and find the best pitchers to always take against in two-strike counts. Here are the best pitchers to always take against:
| Name | 2-Strike Pitches | Avg. wOBA Diff |
|---|---|---|
| Framber Valdez | 83 | .118 |
| Kyle Crick | 65 | .096 |
| Dan Winkler | 124 | .069 |
| Tony Watson | 84 | .066 |
| Josh Hader | 162 | .065 |
| Trevor Richards | 97 | .064 |
| Triston McKenzie | 228 | .055 |
| Chris Rodriguez | 71 | .054 |
| Emmanuel Clase | 102 | .053 |
| Jacob deGrom | 251 | .050 |
This is a pretty fascinating list. It’s a combination of guys with elite stuff who survive on getting hitters to chase frequently as well as those who walk almost everyone. That makes sense, though. You’re better off waiting out elite pitchers because if you make contact, you’re likely going to get out anyway. And you’re also better off waiting out guys who can’t find the zone because waiting for a walk is better than getting yourself out.
If you set the minimum number of two-strike pitches to 200 to filter out some of those relievers, we find that it’s better to always take versus only these seven pitchers:
| Name | 2-Strike Pitches | Avg. wOBA Diff |
|---|---|---|
| Triston McKenzie | 228 | .055 |
| Jacob deGrom | 251 | .050 |
| Cristian Javier | 305 | .025 |
| Kyle Gibson | 278 | .017 |
| Joe Musgrove | 359 | .015 |
| Alex Cobb | 229 | .008 |
| Kevin Gausman | 348 | .005 |
There we go: deGrom is one of the only starting pitchers against whom this “works,” if we can even say that. We know that this will never work in practice: If each hitter only took against deGrom, they should expect to see 102 down the middle of the plate soon enough, I’d bet. But if you’re going to do this every once in a while — in an important spot, perhaps — the data agrees with you. If you’re facing Jacob deGrom, it’s best for a major league hitter to do nothing but marvel at his offerings… and hope that he throws four balls before he throws three strikes.
Devan Fink is a Contributor at FanGraphs. You can follow him on Twitter @DevanFink.
I don’t think this analysis holds up to scrutiny. wOBA calculations assume a league average hitting environment. Obviously, when deGrom is pitching, you’re not looking at a league average hitting environment. Walks would significantly go down in value given the otherwise reduced rate of all hits generally. The probability that a walk comes around to score is reduced significantly.
Assuming all the hitters did this, and deGrom didn’t adjust, if deGrom walked 25.6% of batters – and struck out all the rest, he’d end up with a 0.56 ERA (over a large sample of innings).
“This is a pretty fascinating list. It’s a combination of guys with elite stuff who survive on getting hitters to chase frequently as well as those who walk almost everyone. That makes sense, though. You’re better off waiting out elite pitchers because if you make contact, you’re likely going to get out anyway.” –
I thought the whole lesson of Voros McCracken and FIP/BABIP/etc. was that pitchers had little control over what happens to balls after contact. I think a more accurate sentence would be:
“You’re better off waiting out elite pitchers because if you you swing, you probably won’t make contact.”
We’ve had a lot more research since then though, and there is now clear evidence that some pitchers prevent hard contact better than others. deGrom has been in the top 2% of pitchers in lowest xwOBA on contact, which is pretty evident of a skill.
Nice article! I’ve often wondered about the value of not swinging against elite pitchers.
In deGrom’s case there’s a reason that he gets so many two-strike swings: his slider is located perfectly down and off the plate. Unless hitters drastically change their two-strike approach, deGrom won’t slow down his historic pace anytime soon.
https://twitter.com/Pitching_Bot/status/1404033587960221700
This was always my strategy when I played. Though, I applied this to all pitchers. It’s great to finally be vindicated.
Still ROFL. Great comment.
My strategy was just to get hit a lot.
“Give deGrom Martinez’s 213.1 innings, and at this pace, he’d put up 12.3 WAR. ”
I know it’s factual on an inning per inning basis but given what we know about third/fourth time through the order, it’s misleading to assume his pace maintains itself given an extra inning per start. deGrom is an excellent six-inning pitcher but it takes away from what Pedro accomplished to compare the two this way (even putting aside run/strikeout environment)
deGrom’s wOBA through number of times through the batting order:
First (26.2 IP): .174
Second (24.1 IP): .178
Third (12.0 IP): .117
He’s been out due to health scares, not because he’s lost effectiveness.
Lol, deGrom does great in the later innings. He’s not gone as deep as he usually does this year because of injury concerns, not ineffectiveness. Back in 2018 and 2019 he led the league in innings and ERA. He goes deeper than just about anyone in the game when he’s healthy because he’s that darn good.
It’s really funny that Pedro’s 213 innings are now looked at as a big number. In 1999, that placed Pedro Martinez tied for 19th in the league. Randy Johnson led baseball with 271.67.
Nine pitchers pitched more than 230 innings. Twelve pitched more than 220.
Seeing deGrom breaking down despite having thrown so few innings, I highly doubt he could sustain his peripheral rates being asked to pitch his team into the eighth inning and complete games like starting pitchers, especially top ones, used to do.
This analysis feels akin to someone saying that a power hitting left-handed hitter should bunt against the shift every single AB. You may think “yeah of course greater chance for a free base!” but you actually decrease your run expectancy thus your win expectancy.
I’ve wondered about this sort of thing in the other extreme case: if someone like me, a complete non-athlete, was forced to take the mound against major leaguers, would always taking be optimal for the hitters?
I’d get completely hammered if batters swung, but I’d probably luck in to some line drive outs every once in a while. On the other hand, if I only could hit the zone, say, 15% of the time, I’d probably walk in over a dozen runs an inning.
Can someone do the math on this, please?
If you were forced to take the mound I would recommend having a screen placed in front of the mound because there’s no way you could react to the frozen ropes they would hit off of you. And while you may not find the zone often, the moment you did they would hit the ball so hard that the fans in the bleachers would be scared for their life because the ball was coming with so much force. They would luck into way fewer outs than you think. The only math that would need to be done is counting the record number of dingers you would give up.
The real drama would be how many runs they could score before you got too tired to make it all the way to the plate.
This.
Let’s say the upper limit for what hitters can do on a per-swing basis is about 50% homers, 40% other hits, 10% lucking into outs (of course, all made up numbers). I still think taking all the way might be mathematically better (of course, far less interesting).
Take until the bases are loaded then let Yermin Mercedes hit a massive dong to the moon.
Take everything till there are two outs. Then swing away. But don’t risk making an out swinging till the non-player has gotten two strikeouts. 100 consecutive walks is 97 runs after all. You don’t need a homerun.
La Russa’s giving him the take sign for sure. Not fair to swing at that point.
Don’t we know the max from home run derby? Granted, that’s just elite power hitters, but 50% is too high. Keep in mind, this is BP pitches that are over the plate, no temptation to hunt.
I’m not 100% sold cause major league hitters are not used to hitting very slow pitches. Wakefield threw 60 mph and had a long career. He did not always throw knuckles. I think many swings would be early and fouled off. You could get some outs. Plus much of the distance a pitch is hit is aided by the power of the pitch (physics), so distance might be harder on good swings. I personally think you might be able to keep your ERA below 10.
This reminds me of an old Jeff Sullivan column on how you, yes you, would do as major league hitter knowing your only chance of getting on base was either drawing a walk or getting hit by a pitch. He looks at the results of major leaguers throwing to other pitchers with the bases loaded in 3-0 counts.
https://blogs.fangraphs.com/how-would-you-produce-if-you-never-swung-the-bat/
Jeff Sullivan is a treasure. Miss that guy.
I’d probably rather flail at 3 pitches (swinging way late of course) and take a seat than get hit by a ML fastball. I’m no Nimmo!
Given the probability of throwing a strike is 15%, then for a random sample of 6 pitches, back of the envelope calculations suggest there is about a 4% chance of you throwing three strikes… the chance of throwing 4 strikes in 6 pitches is roughly half a percent. So I assume every batter would just take until 2 strikes …… and then take. Unless their (H+HR)/BIP is greater than 0.85, then they have better odds of not making an out by just taking. The marginal runs created from XBH is probably negligible since the subsequent batters unconditional probability of getting out is ~ 5% i.e. they will most likely push the baserunners around to score anyways. Assume the bases are loaded, then a grand slam adds four to the score, but that’s equivalent to four guys taking a walk, and there’s about an 81% chance that the next 4 batters will reach via walk without the bat leaving their shoulder. I mean if you have 2001 Bonds at bat sure maybe let him swing away but I can’t imagine it would make meaningful improvements to your run expectation.
Actually after rereading, I don’t know if my (H+HR)/BIP is accurate, because there is an extremely good chance that the bases are loaded, any ground ball is potential double play so the required equilibrium rate might be even higher. Anyways, nothing too serious here assumption wise or analysis mostly just thinking aloud…
We should all just watching while standing stock still and marveling whenever Jacob deGrom takes the mound. We’re all just lucky spectators at this point.
I literally did this in my adult league once. Guy was bumping 90 and I thought, “yeah, i think i can time that.” Then he threw me a slider and i was just like, “nope”. So I just stood there and watched hoping he’d walk me. I hope MLB hitters never feel that helpless at the plate, but it’s hilarious that there’s statistical evidence that deGrom is turning the best players in the world into old bums like me.
Happened to me too. Except the pitcher was bumping 90 km/h….
I think the question is how quickly would Jake adjust if he sees batters straight up taking on 2-2 and 3-2 pitches. Pretty sure he would adjust very quickly and pound the zone after 1 or 2 walks. And as the chart shows, he’s likely to throw a strike on 3-2 anyway.
I learned how to do this in high school, but have forgotten since. Somebody humor me.
If you know a pitcher throws a ball 60% of the time (and, in this math problem, the pitcher doesn’t know what you’ll do, and the umpire is always right), what are the odds you get to ball 4 before getting to strike 3?
If the pitcher throws a ball 60% of the time, he will walk the batter 54% of the time. If you change it to a 55% chance of throwing a ball, it flips to a 44% walk rate.
Thanks!
What’s so scary about this is that deGrom doesn’t have a walk issue. He’s so incredibly dominant that literally his biggest weakness is a 3.7% walk rate. Holy bananas Batman that’s just inconceivable.
Of all the crazy deGrom stats this year, and there are many, how about this: if he somehow gives up 14 earned runs in his next 4 innings, he would still have a better ERA than 2019 when he won the Cy Young award.
No disrespect. I love fangraphs. Love your analysis. But this one really isn’t worthy of the fangraphs name. As Joseph mentioned below, the wOBA considerations render it meaningless, and thats before one considers the fact that degrom would obviously change his approach instantly once it became clear that batters were taking relentlessly. I get that this is mostly an exercise thats supposed to present another funny angle to degroms dominance but its far too surface level to pack any kind of meaningful punch.
Still looking forward to the next one, because this site is incredible.
Obviously, to each their own here, but the entire point of this article was meant to consider a situation that would certainly never work in practice. I don’t think every article necessarily needs to solely consider real-life baseball situations. I understand the points about wOBA/league-average hitting environment, but again, this is meant to be a thought exercise and nothing more. Plus, if a hitter tried this in one singular at bat, I’d wager that it might actually work. I’m not saying this is a viable strategy, but rather just one to consider deGrom’s dominance without pounding the strike zone. That is all.
As the one who pointed out that first pointed out that this article doesn’t hold up, I still had a great time reading it. Don’t stop.
I appreciate the discussion! I know that the run environment vs. deGrom is different than the league-average run environment, and I appreciate you pointing that out. That doesn’t change the fact that if a hitter is looking to improve his wOBA in a singular plate appearance, an optimal strategy — given deGrom’s observed zone rates — is to do nothing but take. I do recognize that this would not work over many plate appearances, but it is still fascinating (at least to me) to see it work out in the way that it does.
Among qualified pitchers, deGrom has the highest O-Swing % but ALSO the highest Z-Swing%. He has the LOWEST CStr% YET he has the highest CSW% because of his ridiculous 21% SwStr rate.
You see, normally I would think that a high Z-Swing% is a bad thing for a pitcher. Like it would suggest that you’re not being deceptive enough with your strikes. But with deGrom it seems like hitters just can’t even tell whether it’s in zone or not. Or maybe they can but it simply doesn’t matter. (deGrom is top 6 in both lowest Z-Contact% and lowest O-Contact%)
Basically the guy never gets a called strike because hitters are ALWAYS swinging, yet they can’t make contact regardless. It’s absolutely ridiculous.
Not really related, but if someone could OOTP a team of 9 Yasmani Grandals, I’d be ever thankful
Two criticisms (relatively nitpicky but trying to be constructive):
I skimmed the article earlier and then looked at the tables and got confused by the probability of a walk conditional on being in a 2-strike count… After rereading, its clear that you’re implicitly making the assumption that each pitch is iid but personally I’d appreciate it if you’d make that assumption more explicit. At first I was a little confused and trying to reconcile how a batter would have 12.6% chance of walking after an 0-2 count when deGrom has a 3.6% walk rate… (do batters then have a -6% walk rate for 2-0 counts? – clearly hyperbole but when I first read it and I was trying to make the math work, I was skewing weighted averages in my head to make the numbers work out) …
The second thing is, I think some of the criticism in the comments comes from the framing of the article in conjunction with the hypothetical nature of the content. Just comparing the title to the methodology employed to do this inquiry, the title seems to suggest that you are making a normative statement about how batters ought to operate when facing deGrom, which is followed up with “let’s assume Jacob deGrom is just randomly throwing pitches without any regard to count, then hitters would create more value as opposed to swinging”. But nonetheless like JosephMeyer pointed out, I did enjoy the article ( and clearly read it twice) and I am certainly no writer so take my opinion with a grain of salt. Anyways thanks for writing, I always love reading crazy stats about deGrom.
One last idea, I would find it interesting if you also showed what proportion of the number of batters hes faced ended up in those counts. I’m guessing he’s just always ahead in the count so he can throw either of these to make hitters look silly:
https://twitter.com/pitchingninja/status/1399567054018072577
The Cubs hitters tried this in the 3rd inning yesterday. Three backwards Ks. Back to the drawing board. So far this year the only player to really beat him is Jazz Chisolm who took a shoulder high 100 mph fastball deep. Let’s hope he can stay on the field the rest of the year.
deGrom seemingly always works to the glove side of the catcher (away from righties, inside to lefties) and almost always will get batters to swing out of the zone. This is a K chart of his June 5th start at San Diego, but it could be a chart for every one of his starts it’s so eerie:
https://imgur.com/ChHYe1L
See the location of those strikeout pitches? Not one in the zone and all to the glove side of the catcher. deGrom without fail wants you to K at a unhittable pitch that’s most likely a ball; but because he’s SO unhittable hitters want to hack at anything resembling a strike. And thus a vicious cycle occurs where deGrom is barely allowing hits and is only throwing 10-12 pitches an inning. If he was fully healthy he’d be throwing CGs at his pitch count, if not 8 inning stints.