How Good Can Jordan Montgomery Be?
Back in the spring, there was a gaggle of starting pitchers under consideration for the final spot in the Yankees rotation. Eventually, the lesser-known starter who wowed management got the chance. Jordan Montgomery has been a top-five rookie starter this year so far and, by all accounts, looks like a major leaguer. Now, the question has shifted. Now, we ask not “Will he pitch in the majors?” but “How good will he be?”
Before the season began, I asked Eric Longenhagen about the pitcher, and based on when he’d seen him last, the ceiling seemed low:
Eric Longenhagen, while appreciating the improvement in the slider, still thought that the pitcher “lacks a true swing-and-miss secondary.” I’m not sure “Montgomery’s command of a diverse pallet of junk should allow him to negotiate through big-league lineups multiple times” is a booming recommendation.
Montgomery certainly has five pitches that he throws regularly, and three of those pitches are non-fastballs, which you could call junk. But are they any good? Let’s take a look at his arsenal through the lens of the movement, spin, and velocity data that has been shown to be relevant.
| Pitch | Spin | Movement | Velocity |
|---|---|---|---|
| Four-Seam | 73 | 92 | 43 |
| Curve | 28 | 45 | 60 |
| Slider | 81 | 55 | |
| Sinker | 11 | 50 | |
| Change | 3 | 11 |
A few things stand out here. Like, Montgomery is a fastball/breaking-ball guy, first of all. The sinker and the changeup aren’t good, even if they’re getting good results in a small sample. They can maybe work as “show-me” pitches, but they don’t measure up to other pitches in terms of velocity and movement.
But he has his strengths, too. His fastball has tremendous ride, born of an over-the-top release, and though the velocity is middling, it has good spin and looks like an above-average pitch. The curve has ups and downs but looks about average on sum. Strangely, his newest pitch, the slider, looks like his best pitch, with plus drop compared to his rising fastball and good velocity to boot.
So Montgomery throws five pitches. Two are below average, but he doesn’t throw them a ton. His curve is average, and his bread-and-butter pitches, the four-seam and slider, are above average to plus. You’d be tempted to call him an above-average, a mid-rotation guy, and call it quits — except that we lack some perspective on how these things come together.
In order to gain at least some of that perspective, I thought it would be good to compare this four-seam/breaking-ball lefty to the best four-seam/breaking-ball lefty in the league using the same rubric. You might have heard of Clayton Kershaw.
| Pitch | Spin | Movement | Velocity |
|---|---|---|---|
| Four-Seam | 73 | 99 | 71 |
| Curve | 34 | 98 | 4 |
| Slider | 24 | 96 | |
| Change | 3 | 36 |
The four-seam is better for Kershaw! The curve is better, though different. The change is just as bad! The slider is better for the Dodger, probably.
Wait, just probably? Doesn’t Kershaw have one of the best sliders in the game? Not necessarily, it seems. He certainly did have one of the best sliders. Over the last year, though, something weird happened to it. It got harder and lost drop, and has lost many of the whiffs in the meantime, too, as Chad Moriyama so ably pointed out.
Let’s go to the tape. Clayton Kershaw’s current slider:
Jordan Montgomery’s current slider:
I might take Montgomery’s. Blasphemy, maybe, but we know from the analysis here that the Yankee’s slider has more movement now (with above-average velocity), and that movement is slightly more important for whiffs than velocity for sliders.
That’s okay, our world view need not collapse around us. It’s still true that Kershaw’s fastball and curve are superior. There’s also the big asterisk that hangs on every analysis of a pitcher ever: command. We don’t have a great number for command, but we are all pretty sure that Kershaw has the best command in the league.
We think that Montgomery has good command! Look back on Longenhagen’s tepid early-season endorsement, and Montgomery’s walk and homer rates in the minor leagues, and most subjective appraisals, and you see mentions of good command.
And if it bears out that Montgomery truly has that command, despite early-season walk-rate hiccups — based perhaps on becoming more comfortable with that good slider — then we’ve got quite a pitcher on our hands. After all, “not quite Clayton Kershaw” is an epithet most pitchers in baseball would gladly accept.
With a phone full of pictures of pitchers' fingers, strange beers, and his two toddler sons, Eno Sarris can be found at the ballpark or a brewery most days. Read him here, writing about the A's or Giants at The Athletic, or about beer at October. Follow him on Twitter @enosarris if you can handle the sandwiches and inanity.
Ummm, both tables show Kershaw’s pitch values.
“Clayton Kershaw Pitch Percentiles” ? Think you forgot to include the Montgomery table.
Guys scroll up they’re different
no I had it messed up for a few minutes my bad, fixed now.
Q: How good can Pitcher X potentially be?
A: As good as Clayton Kershaw, because it would be impossible to be better than Clayton Kershaw.
Can you expand on those percentiles? Like does a low velocity % mean his change has a large velocity gap? Which Pavlidis said was unsurprisingly good for whiffs.
Does the low movement % on the sinker mean it has a lot less rise than the four-seam? Because that also has its good points.
yeah I didn’t want to spend a poop ton of words on it, but it’s all judged by those pieces. So a high movement percentile means it’s good. That means ride for a 4s, sink and fade for a sinker, drop for a curveball and drop for the slider. Velo for changeup is velo gap. Would it be more useful to have a quick boilerplate box that outlines all of that when I do those percentiles, or a link to something? Tried to do it with the links in the table.
I know this doesn’t belong here; I apologize for that.
Last year somebody was giving DL updates on a regular basis.
I activated J Donaldson this week based on a blurb 5/5 saying
Gibbons was hopeful having him back on 5/8. Haven’t heard a
word since. Anyone know anything? Anyone doing DL updates on a
regular basis on this site? Anywhere else?
Probably not Fangraphs. Try mlbtraderumors. Donaldson is out a few more weeks.
Try Rotoworld.com
If you set the minimum to 20 IP, his SwStr (13.9%) is tied for 9th best, and his Z-Contact of 79.5% is 10th lowest. Also his ERA is 2.40 the first 2 times through the order and 7.50 the 3rd time though.
Having watched most of his starts, Monty seems to confound hitters with all of his pitches consistently coming out of his high arm slot, and hitters are just unable to recognize pitches out of his hand and wind up flailing a lot… until they get that 3rd look. Like his changeup looks like it should be getting rocked, it kind of just sits there and doesn’t fade or drop at all (as Eno’s table confirms), yet he’s somehow getting a 20.5% SwStr on it (and throwing it 19% of the time). The only thing I can think of is that his changeup just looks exactly like his 4 seamer out of the hand, just 7-8 mph slower. And his lesser offerings seem to play up not because they’re qualitatively ‘good’ pitches in a vacuum (as one can see again in his pitch percentiles table above), but because they are all coming from this ridiculously high arm slot and all winding up in different enough locations at different enough speeds.
I’d like to see how his vertical release pt compares to the rest of the league (find the outlier dot) but also how close he releases all of his pitches relative to each other (both vertically and horizontally), compared to the average pitcher. He seems to make everything look exactly the same out of his hand, and that combined with the batter looking at this straight over the top release point of a guy standing 6-6 has thrown them off so far. I’ll be looking more closely once he starts facing teams a 2nd time too.
One last note on his command: it has always been very good in the minors, and while he does seem to “lose it” for a few pitches here and there, I also think that he takes the David Cone / El Duque mindset and just doesn’t mind walking guys sometimes. Better to give up a walk than a homer, and so far he’s only given up 2 homers. As a younger guy, this seems like something he will continue to feel out and optimize over time (along with his pitch mix). I think everyone will be extremely pleased if he turns out to be a league avg starter as a 4th round pick.
What movement percentile did Kershaw’s old slider rank in?
Edit – Whoa, just read the Moriyama article, it’s not even the same pitch (movement-wise) anymore.
Are there any other lefties with low-90s fastballs, a lousy changeup, and a killer slider? Kershaw’s not exactly comparable.
Add more velo, a bunch more injury risk, and make the slider a bit more like Kershaw’s current one, and you have last year’s Matz. Notoriously bad changeup (iirc), decent curve, Warthen slider. If Montgomery can be 80-90% of that, and actually stay on the field, he’s pretty good.
Eno getting some credit on this from a NYY announcer on tonight’s game in the 3rd inning when Springer was AB, nice job.
Please be the savior from the free agent wire for my 10-team AL only dynasty league…he’s gotta limit base runners (i.e.) free passes b/c the long balls he’s gonna cough some up..