How Have Previous Joey Vottos Aged?

Now that Joey Votto is signed with Cincinnati through his age 39 season, there’s a lot of talk about how long he can be expected to remain productive. The Reds are basically accepting that this deal will be an albatross at the end of the contract in order to secure premium years at reasonable prices in the first half of the deal. The discussion of the contract should not be whether Votto will be worth the money in 2021, 2022, or 2023 – he won’t be, in almost any scenario you can come up with – but by how much surplus value he’ll be able to create through 2020.

I have more thoughts on long term pricing valuations that I’ll share in the next day or two, but for now, I wanted to look at how productive other similar first baseman to Votto were in their age 28-39 seasons. To do this, I pulled every first baseman in history who had at least 2,000 plate appearances and a wRC+ between 142 to 161 from ages 24-27. Those are the ages that Votto has been a big leaguer for, and gives us a nice four year window leading up a player’s prime. Since Votto has a wRC+ of 152 and a WAR of 22.9 and all the players in the sample have a weighted average wRC+ of 150 and a WAR of 22.0, this group is almost identical in terms of recent performance to Votto at this point in his career.

Here’s the list of comparables, and their 24-27 performance:

Name PA BA OBP SLG wOBA wRC+ WAR
Hank Greenberg 2,147 0.327 0.429 0.658 0.475 161 27.1
Jim Thome 2,357 0.301 0.431 0.584 0.432 158 23.1
Fred McGriff 2,603 0.282 0.393 0.525 0.402 154 23.5
Jeff Bagwell 2,324 0.309 0.398 0.537 0.402 153 22.8
Will Clark 2,664 0.303 0.378 0.509 0.386 151 22.9
Eddie Murray 2,412 0.305 0.376 0.534 0.396 149 21.9
Harmon Killebrew 2,435 0.266 0.375 0.561 0.406 146 21.2
Prince Fielder 2,819 0.284 0.400 0.537 0.395 146 17
Don Mattingly 2,750 0.329 0.375 0.542 0.391 145 23.8
Miguel Cabrera 2,697 0.316 0.391 0.566 0.401 145 20
Harry Heilmann 2,395 0.346 0.401 0.527 0.425 142 20.4

Some pretty nice company there. Obviously, Miguel Cabrera and Prince Fielder don’t really help us understand aging curves much since they’re still in a similar position to Votto throughout their careers, so they won’t be included in the next table, which is how these comparables performed from age 28-39.

Name PA BA OBP SLG wOBA wRC+ WAR
Hank Greenberg 2,783 0.299 0.409 0.591 0.450 157 30.5
Jim Thome 6,650 0.272 0.402 0.564 0.406 145 44
Fred McGriff 7,129 0.288 0.372 0.506 0.377 128 36.7
Jeff Bagwell 6,457 0.293 0.413 0.552 0.411 149 56.7
Will Clark 4,573 0.305 0.393 0.483 0.380 127 25.3
Eddie Murray 7,540 0.285 0.361 0.467 0.361 125 44.6
Harmon Killebrew 6,469 0.255 0.382 0.493 0.387 145 52.6
Don Mattingly 3,992 0.289 0.346 0.417 0.336 107 15
Harry Heilmann 4,884 0.364 0.437 0.564 0.452 155 48.7

The weighted average of the group’s wRC+ dropped from 150 to 137, still a fantastic total. These nine players compiled +354 WAR from 28-39 for a straight average of +39 WAR per player. A weighted average pushes the total up to +42 per player, but because guys who were unlikely to keep producing were dropped from the league before they could bring down their total numbers, a weighted average isn’t appropriate here.

You don’t need to do much analysis to realize that these guys were absolutely fantastic players over the bulk of their careers. Mattingly was the worst of the bunch, coming in at +15 WAR in 4,000 plate appearances, but the other eight ranged from All-Stars to Inner-Circle-Hall-Of-Famers for the duration of their careers.

If Votto racks up another +40 WAR before he retires, I’m fairly certain the Reds will look back on this contract with fondness, and they’ll be glad they kept a Hall-of-Fame player wearing a Cincinnati uniform for his entire career. Obviously, there’s a lot of risk involved with injury or unforeseen issues arising at some point, but Votto’s not all that high of a risk for near term performance collapse.

The reality is that there are a good number of positive comparisons for Votto, and any analysis that suggests that this deal is obviously not worth the money isn’t presenting the whole picture. This deal could go very wrong, but previous first baseman who have performed in a similar manner at the same ages as Votto have gone on to have highly productive careers even as they got older.

At some point in the next 12 years, Joey Votto will stop being worth $20 million per year. If he’s worth $30 million per year for a number of seasons up to that point, though, the Reds won’t care.





Dave is the Managing Editor of FanGraphs.

102 Comments
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Oliver
12 years ago
Reply to  Dave Cameron

I agree that Votto’s the right kind of player for the money, but the question for me is, are the Reds the right kind of team to be dedicating 20% of their payroll to a single player?

soupman
12 years ago
Reply to  Oliver

this is more what i was getting at in the last thread. if this handcuffs their ability to build a winning team at any point, it’s going to create negative value beyond what we can measure with Votto’s individual stat line. likewise, much of the ‘value’ in the contract is likely tied up in what Votto brings to the team beyond his on-field performance, and what it signals to players around the league about the reds (for example). i’m not trying to criticize dave’s work by saying this, instead, i’m simply reiterating my concern over the amount of risk it assumes; it is heartening to see that great players tend to remain great players throughout their careers, but i’m more worried about the reds’ overall ability to continue to spend. i hope they can, because cincinati has a nice park, a great history, and good fans who deserve a championship-calibre team.

Jake Albrecht
12 years ago
Reply to  Oliver

If you’re investing that much money in a guy who actually brings elite level WAR than it’s worth it no matter what percentage of your payroll he eats up. The fact is the amount of spots on the field is fungible so if you have a 7 WAR player at 1st and 1 WAR player at SS that’s better than another team having 3.5 WAR players at each position. It’s better to have the elite player and then try to find ways to get 2-3 WAR players to surround him. Rather than a team of 3 WAR players who you’re constantly replacing. That’s just my opinion. I realize the majority thinks it’s better to spread risk out.

soupman
12 years ago
Reply to  Oliver

but isn’t the original a-rod mega-contract the exact reason that’s not necessarily true? all he did was dominate, but the Rangers ended up being hamstrung by that (and other stupid decisions they made).

ek1987
12 years ago
Reply to  Oliver

That’s true. The reds just aren’t in a market where you can perdict their payroll to increase at a very high rate over the next decade. 8 years from now, Votto could prevent them from making moves to be competative in the next season. Though i’m sure quite a few accountants thought this out.

WY
12 years ago
Reply to  Oliver

“The fact is the amount of spots on the field is fungible…”

That does not make any sense.

RationalSportsFan
12 years ago
Reply to  Dave Cameron

Dave, why are you again treating this as a twelve year deal instead of a ten year deal attached to a two year deal. Shouldn’t you be looking at all the above players’ 30-39 seasons?

Psst
12 years ago
Reply to  Dave Cameron

I am somewhat surprised to no see Helton on the comps list.

Kyle K.
12 years ago
Reply to  Psst

The agreed-upon FanGraphs party line is that Helton’s contract was a bad one (even though that’s not true), but Dave wanted to make Votto’s contract sound like a good idea which prevented him from bringing up Helton. It’s how things tend to work around here.

Kyle K.
12 years ago
Reply to  Psst

By which I mean most of the writers come up with the conclusion they want to draw first, then selectively pick and choose supporting facts/information which help their case while ignoring facts/information that hurts it. Just to be clear.

jrogersmember
12 years ago
Reply to  Psst

That’s a pretty strong charge, Kyle. Maybe you can show some evidence of it elsewhere, but in this column Dave explicitly states the criteria (“every first baseman in history who had at least 2,000 plate appearances and a wRC+ between 142 to 161 from ages 24-27”).

Weighting by plate appearances, it looks to me like Helton’s overall wRC+ for those four seasons was 140.