Ideal Players and Brandon Phillips

At some point in your baseball fanhood, you probably start formulating your ideal player. And if you’re here, that formulation includes statistics. Maybe you like the old OPS benchmark of .300/.400/.500 with steals and homers to boot. Or maybe it’s all about weighted runs created above average. In my case, I was fascinated with plate discipline. Give him a walk rate that’s higher than his strikeout rate — first and foremost — and you’re well on your way to building my perfect player.

This sort of thing might happen on an organizational level, too. Dave Hudgens was the minor league hitting coordinator for the Indians, and he helped shepherd an organization-wide rise in walk rate. The Mets’ new GM took a liking to that and installed him with their big league team. And the team has since swung less at pitches outside the zone, so he’s been deemed a success. And, as the team was drawn to a coach that coaxes walks, the organization probably prefer players that do the same. To the point where they might ignore flaws to do so (Lucas Duda?).

The flip side of this process might be that players that don’t fit your profile of an ideal slip through the cracks. Take Brandon Phillips.

Brandon Phillips reaches. Brandon Phillips whiffs. Brandon Phillips doesn’t walk. Brandon Phillips is still a very good player. And two organizations passed him up, perhaps because they were looking for him to do things he can’t do.

In recent years, Phillips has begun making more contact, but contact is not the best part of his game. He’s never once put up a swinging strike rate that was better than the league average. He’s also consistently struck out less than the league average. These things can be linked — Albert Lyu and I went on a mini-tangent about these players two years ago — so this isn’t about the fact that Phillips’ aggressiveness helps him avoid the strikeout.

Even if we showed that some players can use aggressiveness to avoid the strikeout despite some contact issues, we didn’t take the next step to show how this might affect a player’s overall value. Because if you are being aggressive and avoiding the strikeout, you’re also avoiding the walk.

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Let’s look at some other players that profile like Phillips at the plate. Phillips has had a swinging strike rate over ten percent for his career, so let’s clip qualified players since 2002 there. Phillips has never struck out as much 20% of the time, so let’s cut the group around the league-average strikeout rate. He has average-ish power, so let’s cull those over a .200 isolated slugging percentage, and those under .130. He also swings at pitches outside the zone more than average, so let’s get rid of those with a better eye for the zone. So far we’re far from describing an ideal player, but we are describing a Phillipsian dude. Here they are:

Name PA BB% K% SwStr% O-Sw% Z-Sw% BABIP AVG OBP ISO wRC+ Fld BsR WAR
Brandon Phillips 4,989 6% 14% 11% 33% 75% 0.293 0.273 0.322 0.160 96 63 20 27
Ivan Rodriguez 4,648 5% 17% 12% 35% 77% 0.326 0.288 0.325 0.151 98 30 (7) 26
Hunter Pence 3,787 7% 19% 11% 32% 70% 0.321 0.285 0.339 0.189 117 16 4 21
Pablo Sandoval 2,311 8% 13% 10% 45% 81% 0.319 0.303 0.353 0.188 126 13 (9) 17
Alex Gonzalez 4,441 5% 18% 11% 36% 69% 0.281 0.249 0.295 0.159 81 42 (11) 15
Juan Uribe 4,946 6% 18% 11% 30% 74% 0.274 0.248 0.295 0.165 79 45 (1) 14
Adam Jones 3,116 5% 19% 13% 40% 72% 0.316 0.278 0.323 0.174 105 (21) 11 14
Kevin Kouzmanoff 2,679 5% 18% 12% 34% 76% 0.284 0.255 0.300 0.165 93 22 (2) 11
Jeff Francoeur 4,703 5% 18% 12% 39% 79% 0.299 0.266 0.310 0.160 91 35 (11) 10
Rod Barajas 3,642 6% 17% 10% 34% 70% 0.250 0.237 0.287 0.174 78 7 (25) 9
Xavier Nady 3,198 6% 19% 11% 30% 72% 0.309 0.270 0.324 0.162 99 (22) (1) 6
Matt Diaz 2,033 5% 18% 13% 36% 74% 0.341 0.291 0.339 0.140 103 (3) (7) 5
Brennan Boesch 1,487 7% 19% 10% 40% 75% 0.298 0.259 0.315 0.155 96 (22) 1 1
Delmon Young 3,575 4% 18% 13% 41% 80% 0.323 0.284 0.317 0.141 96 (54) (7) 1

There would have been a time in my life where I would have automatically denigrated everyone on this list. There’s not an average walk rate here, and the strikeout rates are not elite, just not terrible. That version of myself would have pointed to the group’s mediocre offense as evidence of my correctness. As a group, they produce on a level that is three percent worse than the league! Their average on base percentage is .317! No thanks.

For some of these players, the denigration is perhaps warranted. If you pair this sort of offense with bad fielding and suspect baserunning, as Delmon Young, Brennan Boesch, Matt Diaz and Xavier Nady have, then it’s going to be tough to add value to your team. Even if you aren’t striking out as much as you ‘should’ be, given your tools.

But you can’t ignore the rest of the package. Sort the group by fielding, and Phillips zooms to the top. Sort it by baserunning, and he’s number one. And so he’s the best of the bunch by wins, too. And the other positive contributors are also at premium defensive positions, showing good defense. Or in Adam Jones‘ case, good baserunning.

Sort the list by power, and you get Hunter Pence and Pablo Sandoval at the top — the two best wRC+ scores in the group. With a different power cutoff, you might find Adrian Beltre here. In a way, they might be even more ideal versions of this player — ugly at the plate when it comes to discerning balls and strikes, but with enough power and defense to be good players.

Not every player should be told to swing less and focus on drawing walks. Some should be told to be aggressive and get out in front of those strikeouts. Not every player will use great plate discipline to add value to their team. Sometimes you have to focus on what that player does correctly, and work to emphasize those parts of their game. Not every player has to live up to an ideal, cookie-cutter approach in order to be a star.

Take Brandon Phillips. The Reds did.





With a phone full of pictures of pitchers' fingers, strange beers, and his two toddler sons, Eno Sarris can be found at the ballpark or a brewery most days. Read him here, writing about the A's or Giants at The Athletic, or about beer at October. Follow him on Twitter @enosarris if you can handle the sandwiches and inanity.

19 Comments
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KH
13 years ago

Brian Sabean clearly agrees. Pence, Sandoval, Uribe, Nady… The list goes on.

Nivra
13 years ago
Reply to  KH

Sadly, this.

Shankbone
13 years ago
Reply to  Nivra

Not sadly this at all. Got the rings to prove it. If everybody is after the OBP fueled moneyball ideal, then there is gold in them thar hills. Giants grabbed an undervalued commodity on the cheap and ran with it. Juan Uribe is a great #6 hitter utility guy. Sandoval is a stone cold hero. Pence did his job when it counted most, and sure, lets yuk up ribeyes, but he got the runs home. Nady… well OK. You gots to kiss a couple frogs from time to time.

YanksFanInBeantown
13 years ago
Reply to  Nivra

Those rings prove that he has an elite rotation that got hot at the right time. Nothing else.

Shankbone
13 years ago
Reply to  Nivra

The standard got lucky/can’t build an offense rag. Well, the Giants went 12th in the majors in runs scored, 5th in BA, 8th in OBP and a miserly 18th in SLG. Pitching they got 7th in ERA, 6th in QS, 13th in WHIP and 8th in BAA. I’ll just go pre-emptive on the inevitable Melky Cabrera reference, they went 30-15 without him, and had no problems scoring runs. Went on a nice rampage to end the year as well.

Hackers have a place, along with 3 true outcome and the elite hitters. The Giants are building a nice offensive core, and are getting set to compete for years, starting with next years title defense.

camfrommaine41
13 years ago
Reply to  KH

The tribe drafted lincecum in 2005 .they were not allowed to give him the million he wanted because of his draft spot. And the next year he signs in the first round. I wonder how clevelands rotation could have looked in 07 or 08 lincecum sabathia lee westbrook carmona( carl pavano?)

obsessivegiantscompulsive
13 years ago
Reply to  camfrommaine41

That’s not correct, from what I know. They could have given him the $1M that he wanted, there was no limit by the CBA back then. The Giants did that to pick up Ishikawa.

In any case, the Indians did not even get close, they reportedly only offered him $400K, who knows what he might have chose had they offered him at least double that.

They would have had an amazing rotation. And it probably would have been the Rays with two World Series Championships instead of the Giants had they selected Posey instead. Woulda coulda shoulda.

Antonio bananas
13 years ago

Interesting. I’ve always been interested in player archetypes. I wonder if having a lineup of similar hitters vs diverse “types” changes productivity. For example, you might get in a rhythm with a patient team of pounding the zone to get ahead of them. Where you might have trouble if you are constantly switching up your strategy. I know it might sound weird, but muscle memory and repetition are huge in baseball.

RainmakerMember since 2016
13 years ago

I always think about this with pitcher success; like why a guy like Kevin Slowey will have 7Ks 1-2ER one day, then 7ER and 0Ks the next time out. Because he’s around the plate so much, a lineup of Sandovals and Phillips would probably destroy him, but a more cautious lineup will get picked apart by him because he’s hitting good spots.

Cody
13 years ago

I would be really interested to know what differentiates the Phillips, Pudges, Pences, and Sandovals of baseball from the Youngs, Boeschs, Diazes, and Nadys of baseball. Is there a common trait that makes up for the former groups lack of plate discipline? Or maybe they are more well rounded players (no pun intended with Sandoval)? Or maybe they have one defining strength?

Shankbone
13 years ago

Great article Eno. I love me some Brandon Phillips, and the guys caught in your troll are among my favorites: Sandoval Pence and Uribe as well as Adam Jones. Like I said upthread, as a #6 hitter, hacking away isn’t the worst thing to do. It takes a village, and the Giants have Posey (and Burrell in 2010) to do it all. I’d hope that the Gints front office could talk with Mr. Bochy about skipping Belt to the 5 spot and let Pence take his hacks with some more runners on base, but that’s just a little nitpick on my part. Sandoval is a unique character. There really isn’t any good way to pitch him, especially when he gets hot.

Sparkles Peterson
13 years ago

Phillips fell flat on his face the year after his cup of coffee in 2002, rebounded with a very solid AAA campaign in 2004, and then stunk again in 2005. I can think of a lot of plausible scenarios to explain his career arc with the Indians besides them not being willing to give a free swinger a real second chance.

Steve
13 years ago

Exactly. Between 2002 and 2005 there was no good reason to believe that Phillips would be a legit major leaguer other than hope his potential panned out. The Indians gave him plenty of chances. He just had some growing up to do, and the kick in the rear that being DFA-ed is was seemingly just the thing that did it.

EL DoRo
13 years ago

Brandon Phillips drives me crazy at times. Hes obviously a guess hitter in certain counts. But his defense and passion for the game often make up for it.

glib
13 years ago

In regard to the Giants contingent, aren’t we mixing also a lot of other effects here?

First there is the most extreme park in the majors (2nd lowest park factor overall, 1st for homers). Who knows how well current wisdom applies in such an extreme environment. Could hacking be advantageous in a low scoring environment, and bases on balls advantageous in a regular park?

Second Uribe was extremely valuable because he could (and did) play the field well at 3B and SS, and did so extensively in 2010. Third, he had 12 RBIs in the postseason while posting a OPS of 471! And finally, many feel that he was eating his Wheaties back then looking for a big contract (once he got the contract, he stopped having breakfast and his production went South).

Finally, it would be nice to see a study of whether postseason baseball is different from regular season baseball, leading to better success for high contact guys. Sabean, no doubt, consciously tries to get this kind of players. He is doing it again right now, bringing Cole Gillaspie and Javier Herrera to compete for the LF platoon slot. Could it be that their analysis department knows something we don’t know?

Shankbone
13 years ago
Reply to  glib

Each player was targeted by Sabean at a different point in his career. Sandoval got signed 10 years ago. Its worth noting he has the best BB% and best K% of the bunch, he’s sort of a freak of nature. (Hardballtimes does a Yogi Berra award posting that’s fun – he has “won” it 2 out of 3 years and narrowly lost to Juan Pierre last time) Uribe was signed (twice) when nobody wanted him. 1MM for 2009, 3.25MM for 2010. 3.4 WAR and 1.3 WAR (B/R). 40 HRs combined while putting up just above the 300 mark in OBP each year. He gets charmed by Coletti wanting him, the Giants try to match, Bums go over the top with 1MM Frank McCourt deferred and what do you know, the Giants get a supplemental pick, one that turned into Kyle Crick. Juan Uribe is the gift that kept on giving, and for Sabean, sometimes its better to be lucky than good. He did maybe his worst move in 4 years within hours of Uribe fleeing south by signing up Miggy Tejada’s bad attitude/corpse but that was only for a year.

Pence was a target before Beltran, but the Gints didn’t have the steaks in the freezer for that trade. I think the important thing with both Pablo and Pence in the lineup is they need to draw the breaks on more hackers. Gotta balance out with a little three true outcome and some Buster Posey who does it all. Scutaro obviously is the owner of the best contact rate in the majors, I think they targeted him for that aspect. Too bad they didn’t try to trade for him (or JJ Hardy/Jason Bartlett) when they rushed in on Tejada. And compounded with Orlando Cabrera. They did admit that was a mistake though, and it was a short-term jobby. They tried to get Alex Gonzalez to caddy Crawford for 2012, but he wanted starting time.

Nady was just a flyer. As was Burrell, Guillen, Ross and for that matter Scutaro. The Giants are short timing fill-ins, and have had outstanding success with it. They get the bad ones rubbed in, such as Cabrera or Guillen, but you have to kiss some frogs. Scutaro and Ross are 2 of the all time great pickups for the stretch run. I wouldn’t be shocked to see them, if LF is still a mess, go after Jeff Frenchman if the Royals are out of it. But they have 2 reclamation projects already, 2 farmhands banging on the door, and Herrera and Gillaspie. The Giants treat the OF the way most fans want them to treat the bullpen – spare parts. Its a contrarian move, and its paid off in spades for them the past 3-4 years. These have all been cheap moves, easily discarded if something better comes along.

Justin Shirley
13 years ago

Does the constant switching in the lineup of Phillips have any play in this? They have never had a leadoff hitter (until Choo now), so Phillips did that for a time. He’s batted in the 2 hole…he’s batted cleanup. He seems to have the versatility to tailor his hitting philosophy a little to what his team needs…which is why I like BP. With Choo hitting leadoff, does Phillips hit cleanup between Votto and Bruce? 6th after Bruce? Just curious to what the new stability might do for his 2013.

big red machine
13 years ago
Reply to  Justin Shirley

I can never predict exactly what Dusty is thinking, but it would seem he will hit 2nd. Ludwick or Frazier will hit 4th.

RainmakerMember since 2016
13 years ago
Reply to  Justin Shirley

I think you’re on to something here, but maybe in a broader sense. Players aren’t just a collection of stats, they are thinking, reacting, adapting humans. While the Panda has publicly stated his “approach” never changes, I’d bet that as you point out, Phillips approach changes somewhat depending not only on where he bats in the order, but the pitcher, the count, the situation, etc. — good players are gamers like that.

I think that’s why the archetyping doesn’t hold true 100% — we want to put players in nice little buckets, but the reality is there are some guys who can reach outside their demonstrated collection of skills now and then. Like if you looked at Pence’s post-trade numbers, you’d see some scary stuff — .213AVG, HR/FB% down, K% up, BB% down — and it would look like the move from a hitters park to pitchers park was going to be a terrible match for Pence’s skillset. Flyballs that were HR at Citizen BanK were outs at AT&T Park, and it was bringing Pence way down. But halfway through the season, Pence is on his way to career year.