Imagining the New Matt Harvey

Remember Vintage Matt Harvey? He sat 96 and didn’t walk anyone and could go to any of three plus secondary pitches. Sigh. That Matt Harvey was sweet. And it was only 2015 when we last saw him. We all had hope that thoracic-outlet surgery would bring that Matt Harvey back, but we’re hearing some bad news on that front recently.

“Harvey’s velocity hovered in the 92-mph range — just as it has in all three of his spring starts — as he got roughed up in a 6-2 loss to the Marlins,” wrote Marc Carig on Wednesday before a grumpy Harvey did his best to assuage concerns with the press afterwards. Given his rough season last year, however — when he was down to 94 from 96 the years before — those fears are justified.

“It’s going to be there or it’s not, and I have to go out and pitch,” Harvey told Carig. “And I think after today I feel really confident going into my next outing and moving forward.” He’s right to assert that he has to pitch with whatever he has, and the underlying assumption, that others have been fine at similar velocities, is also correct. But will this righty, with this fastball, be just as well off as, say, two other righties who averaged 92 on their fastballs last year like a Tanner Roark or an Ian Kennedy? What will his work look like if he’s healthy all year?

An average fastball velocity if, of course, composed of many different individual fastballs all thrown at different, individual velocities. So to look at what Harvey has done in the past on the fastball, we have to look at how he’s done on fastballs at different velocities. You can see exactly that below.

Matt Harvey Whiffs by Velo
Velo Count SwStr%
98 104 21.2%
97 281 12.8%
96 589 8.5%
95 454 7.3%
94 340 7.1%
93 150 8.7%
92 80 3.8%
Velo = average fastball velo.
Since beginning of 2015.

When Harvey was sitting 96, he threw some 98 mph fastballs. Those were nasty and got whiffs one-fifth of the time. Then he hit a few rungs on his way down to 92 mph. It’s going to be hard to live down there at 92, but he’ll still throw some 93s and 94s, and that’s the smallest sample.

Anyway, this is still something with which other pitchers deal. How does Harvey’s performance at different velocities compare to the league? Let’s look. I’ve added in Jeff Zimmerman’s pitch grades, which incorporate some ball-in-play results, in order to produce a grade that is supposed to be on a scout’s 20-80 scale. A grade of 50 is average.

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Matt Harvey’s Whiffs by Velo vs the League’s
Velo Harvey SwStr% League SwStr% Pitch Grade
98 21.2% 11.3% 76
97 12.8% 10.2% 69
96 8.5% 9.4% 64
95 7.3% 8.6% 59
94 7.1% 7.8% 54
93 8.7% 7.1% 50
92 3.8% 6.6% 47
Velo = average fastball velo.
Since beginning of 2015.
Pitch Grade calculated by Jeff Zimmerman, accounts for batted-ball results.

It’s about the same story, just smoothed out by better samples. We’re about to see what Matt Harvey will look like with an average fastball — average velocity (as currently reported), average movement and spin (as it had last year), and likely average results. Even if he gets a half-tick or two between now and the season, and some more movement with lower velocity, he’ll still be situated some distance from where he used to be.

You figure a guy with an average fastball can either hurry his way down the aging curve for pitch types — pitchers use fewer fastballs as they age — and throw his secondary stuff, or he can get by on command and movement.

Let’s start with the second option first. Harvey shows up as 27th best by Baseball Prospectus’ new Called Strikes Above Average metric, but that could be more control than command if Harvey can’t hit his spots inside the zone. Harvey didn’t come up through the minors touted as a command guy, and just comparing him to the tenth-best guy on that same list, it doesn’t seem like he’s in the same class. Here’s Clayton Kershaw on hitter’s counts with the four-seam, versus Harvey in the same counts last year.

Kershaw’s nailing the edge of the zone, and Harvey’s in the middle and off the edges. I don’t think he’s going to age like Bartolo Colon (number one in CSAA) at least.

Could he throw his secondary pitches a lot more this year and pitch backwards? Perhaps, though Tim Lincecum once admitted that that sort of thing wasn’t working for him once he lost his fastball velocity. The secondary pitches all rely on the fastball in some form or another.

We have done some research on what makes a changeup good — velocity differential and horizontal and vertical movement defined off the fastball. Harvey’s changeup last year rated 131st based on those metrics, and below average. He started using it less as the year went on. His slider had below-average drop, and though it was hard, the most important thing for whiffs on the slider is drop. The curve had good velocity (last year) but four inches less drop than average, and drop is also important for the curve.

It looks like the fastball was the key for Harvey, and it won’t be the same this year. Without a dominant secondary pitch that can take its place as the foundation, he’ll need to find more command than he’s shown in the past. Harvey will have to learn how to pitch at 92. It just doesn’t look like it will be easy.





With a phone full of pictures of pitchers' fingers, strange beers, and his two toddler sons, Eno Sarris can be found at the ballpark or a brewery most days. Read him here, writing about the A's or Giants at The Athletic, or about beer at October. Follow him on Twitter @enosarris if you can handle the sandwiches and inanity.

30 Comments
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RobertMember since 2017
9 years ago

Mets fans will blame Adriana Lima.

Jesse
9 years ago
Reply to  Robert

Pretty sure we all blame Terry Collins.

mr.met89Member since 2024
9 years ago
Reply to  Jesse

TC has absolutely nothing to do with harvey’s injuries.

southie
9 years ago

Such a shame. Dark Knight in his prime was a sight for sore eyes.

BrettMember since 2016
9 years ago

Degrom looks like he’s back. So they’ll still have a devastating 1-2 punch at the top with Thor. Between Wheeler who’s throwing 97 again, Matz, and Lugo/Gsellman, the rotation will be fine. But it really is a shame to see Harvey so diminished.

nkar5
9 years ago

One potentially important caveat is that he lost feeling in his hand last year due to TOS. I have to imagine that could have had a significant impact on both his FB command and his secondaries last year (esp. the changeup, which is very much a feel pitch). He’s said that he had no idea where the ball was going last year. I’d be very interested to see that heatmap for 2015.

Separately, I still have some faith that even if he can’t get back up to 97+, he can perhaps sit at 94/95. That would help. This is a significant surgery and we’re like less than 9 months out.

Admittedly, I am forcing a bit of optimism b/c he is my favorite of the bunch (something about how he came up first, gave us hope).

Brians Sticky Sock
9 years ago
Reply to  nkar5

The inflammation in the area basically crushes the nerve. The hope is the nerve can recover, but we all understand how sensitive they are. I wonder how much feeling he got back.

nkar5
9 years ago
Reply to  Eno Sarris

thanks for following up

Brians Sticky Sock
9 years ago

Cubs fan here. Just wanted to say how fun he was to watch. I know this is the nature of pitching, but hopefully the rest of their rotation can hold up for awhile.

TheBigStapler
9 years ago

Does that swinging strike rate include 2-seam fastballs as well as 4-seam?

SnerdMember since 2026
9 years ago

FWIW I read somewhere that Terry Collins (i think) quipped that docs said Harvey could take =< 2 more months to fully recover and strengthen. Still tough to buy in, but there's more than a nonzero chance he's pitching at 70%. I really hope he gets back to even close to where he was in his prime–so much fun to watch

hurricanexyzMember since 2016
9 years ago
Reply to  Snerd

This, I think, is the key. If what we’re seeing in spring is just what he’s going to be, then he’s going to be kind of mediocre. Maybe not bad exactly: he throws 92 with a full complement of secondary pitches. But not the Matt Harvey we’re accustomed to.

On the other hand it seems like there’s a legitimate chance that this isn’t just what he is now, that he’s not yet back to strength but he will be in a couple of months and he’ll throw 95+ again and will be something more like Matt Harvey again. Only time will tell, I suppose.

TheBigStapler
9 years ago

Something that isn’t touched upon in the article: the uninspiring command and diminished effectiveness of secondaries in 2016 may be due to the fact that he couldn’t feel his fingers.

RonnieDobbs
9 years ago
Reply to  TheBigStapler

Even if it wasn’t that severe (I don’t know), any discomfort or lack of feel can destroy effectiveness. Hell, if a hangnail or blister can end a start in its tracks, consider TOS symptoms…

bosoxforlifeMember since 2016
9 years ago

At worst he should be a serviceable back of the rotation starter. The Mets are still very strong, deGrom and Syndergaard match up favorably with any top of the rotation pair. Matz only needs to stay healthy, obviously, but the baseball intelligentsia. are unwilling to give Lugo any due whatsoever and are only, very begrudgingly, accepting the possibility that Gsellman is following in the steps of deGrom. Get out of %&^$*^& Las Vegas and have a chance to show what you really have.

RonnieDobbs
9 years ago
Reply to  bosoxforlife

He was a lot worse than a serviceable back-end starter last year! They do have a strong staff around him though – that point is very correct.

gregqd
9 years ago
Reply to  RonnieDobbs

I’m sorry, but 2 WAR in just 92 IP, with a FIP of 3.47 is “a lot worse than a serviceable back-end starter?” How good are serviceable back-end starters supposed to be?

backward galaxy
9 years ago

Nature is such a B. Without drawing any conclusions about Harvey himself… Do everything the same, lose 4 mph, night and day. It really is amazing how hard the transition must be for athletes when the difference between utter dominance and getting hit around the park is so small.

southie
9 years ago

Baseball is just a beast of a game.

Hitting is always referenced as one of the harder skills in sports. So on the flip side that must mean pitching is easy? But we know it’s Not. Such a hard game.

BipMember since 2016
9 years ago

I wonder if that velocity/results graph is a little misleading. For example, it suggests that Harvey’s 98 is actually better than the typical 98, perhaps due to movement, perhaps due to having such strong secondary stuff that hitters can’t sit on the fastball and time it. Those two reasons would be legitimate skill-based things you could credit to Harvey.

However, my suspicion is that his results are better at 98 because he sits lower than that, meaning that dialing it up to 98 acts kind of like a reverse changeup–it throws off the batter’s timing by being even faster than they expect. So, counter-intuitively, if he sat at 98, his results at that speed would get substantially worse, and by worse I mean closer to the MLB baseline at that velo. That would still be better overall than sitting at 96 or 94 or 92, but it would be nowhere close to that absurd 20% whiff rate.

To me, what is telling is that at every velocity where he has *sat*, he has a below-average whiff rate. It suggests his fastball is actually “straighter” than average, or he is less deceptive than average, but of course he only needs to be so deceptive when he sits at 96. This would be a bad sign for him if he has to sit at average velocity.

LHPSU
9 years ago
Reply to  Bip

Everyone sits lower than 98. No starting pitcher averaged 98 mph last year.

hurricanexyzMember since 2016
9 years ago
Reply to  LHPSU

Except Noah Syndergaard, of course.

LHPSU
9 years ago
Reply to  hurricanexyz

Thor actually fell a hair short too.

justino37
9 years ago
Reply to  LHPSU

Not sure why you get all the thumbs down when what you said is accurate. Syndergaard averaged below 98mph. http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=120&type=10&season=2016&month=0&season1=2016&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0

gregqd
9 years ago
Reply to  LHPSU

His teammate says hi.

Paul22
9 years ago

He might find himself non tendered after this year with a clunker of a season. Mets arent paying 6 million next year unless he is good. Unlike TJS the prognosis ain’t great

Not predicting this just saying its possible

Chris KMember since 2020
9 years ago

In that Zimmerman article, it says that (I’m assuming, controlling for movement) 80 grade velo on a fastball is 97. Seems like a fifth of the guys in the league can flash that now. Has FG revised their understanding of 80 grade velocity in a world of Chapmans, Kopechs, and Otanis? I remember a Tigers bullpen a few years back that featured three guys who could break triple digits. Seems like loose use of the 80 grade label.

bryanzane
9 years ago

I was wondering if anyone knows of a source that tracks pitches and velocity during spring games?

themightypeace
9 years ago

Hi Mr. Sarris – great article. I have a question. In spring 2015 Harvey came out of the gate killing it. Leading up to spring training 2017, there was a lot of talk about Harvey taking it slow in fear of incurring another injury. Is there any chance Harvey is holding back a little bit this spring? If that is the case, you would think we should see a big jump in his last start or two in spring training.