Bruce Maxwell Takes a Knee
I’ve spent a good chunk of the morning trying to find a way to write about the weekend’s events in a way that adds something to the conversation. I didn’t want to just write about the controversy surrounding anthem etiquette simply because it was what everyone else was writing about today, nor did I want to use the FanGraphs platform to preach to the choir who might agree with my stance, or to lecture those who don’t.
But, at the same time, with this topic at the forefront of the national sports discussion, and with Puerto Rico in desperate need of aid after getting devastated by Hurricane Maria, trying to write about anything else feels hollow. Maybe I’ll be able to write about the NL Cy Young race tomorrow. I couldn’t do it today.
So here’s what I’ve settled on. Jeff Passan wrote a really good in-depth piece on Bruce Maxwell, who became the first MLB player to kneel during the National Anthem this weekend.
“Usually the first person to do something when it comes to difference or controversy is the person who bears the brunt of negative comments. That’s fine with me,” Maxwell said. “I told the [A’s] owners, it’s nothing I’m not used to. I was an African-American growing up in Alabama. I got a lot of stuff there. I knew my life would change. I was staring directly into the flag because this is my country. My dad fought for this country. My grandfather fought for this country. I got a lot of feedback from them, and I’m standing up for my rights. This isn’t old America. People shouldn’t be treated unequally because of the color of their skin. There’s a problem. I’m doing my part to stand up and have the world of baseball understand it’s not the NFL standing out. It’s not basketball players rejecting an invitation to the White House. It’s all our responsibilities as humans, as Americans, to do what’s right.”
Whether you agree with his form of protest or even what he’s protesting, the story behind his decision to do so should help inform our understanding of his motivations.
And in this day and age, we could all use more understanding of the other side. Getting to see things from Maxwell’s perspective, and from those who know him best, is imperative to repairing the issues that create a compulsion to take a knee. And repairing these issues, not attacking the messengers, should be everyone’s primary goal.
So I’d like to encourage everyone to take the time you might have spent reading my words on this issue and instead read Passan’s piece on Bruce Maxwell. But before you do that, I’d like to encourage everyone reading this to pick a charity dedicated to helping Puerto Rico rebuild, and donate whatever you’re able to in order to help those who need it most right now. This is a legitimate crisis, and we can’t afford to just say that someone else can help them. They are U.S. citizens, and they desperately need other Americans to assist them in their time of need. Let’s not let them down.
Donate to any of these charities.
Then read this.
And maybe tomorrow we’ll talk about Clayton Kershaw versus Max Scherzer.
Dave is the Managing Editor of FanGraphs.
Thanks for this, Dave.
thumbs up
So Ashland gets a +65, and Brian get a -1, and they’re basically saying the same thing. Sometimes I don’t understand you guys. I get that I’ll be downvoted, but I don’t get the discrepancy between their votes. smdh
Thanks for this Dave.
I appreciate the telling contrast between the generosity in your call for aid for Puerto Rico and the self-indulgent victimhood of people like Maxwell.
Welcome to Downvote City, population: you. How’s the tip of your nose look as you stare down it?
You read the Passan article already? It is good. Here’s a quote from it, also in Dave’s piece here.
“Usually the first person to do something when it comes to difference or controversy is the person who bears the brunt of negative comments. That’s fine with me,” Maxwell said.
That sounds exactly like what Ryan21 was doing by voicing an opinion he had to know would be unfavorably received by the community. I respect him for doing it, just the same as others apparently respect Maxwell.
Oh I see, with free speech all opinions are created equal? Glad that’s all cleared up.
My point is pretty simple: Read Passan’s article, then comment. (It is also a rather good article)
The very essence of free speech in this country IS that all opinions are equal, at least as far as any government restriction on speech is concerned. Disagree with Ryan21 if you want, but his comment is on the exact same footing as any other kind of expression, including Maxwell’s.
The essence of free speech is not that all opinions are equal. That is just untrue. The essence of free speech is that all opinion is able to be vocalized and protected equally no matter what the content is. BoB is trying to raise money to send a satellite to space to show the world is flat. That opinion of his is wrong, proven several times, and not an equal opinion to actual fact.
I think the entire “all opinions are equal” crap is half of the reason why we are politically in the place we are. If someone is wrong, you call them wrong, and use the facts to show them that they are wrong. They don’t have a right to have a platform that is not theirs to act as if their opinion is equal to others, but they can spout their opinion all they want from their own platform.
You can’t equate flat earthers with people who disagree about kneeling during the national anthem. One question very much is a question of verifiable fact, the other is a question of opinion. While I agree on principle that there is nothing forcing anyone to be polite about each other’s opinions, and that there are frankly garbage opinions out there, I do find a little too often that the people who are making a stand on ‘not all opinions are created equal’ are really just saying ‘MY opinions should be listened to and yours are bunk’.
If you notice, the Huff Post and Fox News message boards are papered with people high fiving each other because their beliefs are fact driven and objectively correct. We’d all do better to be just a tad more respectful of dissent, a little more strict about our usage of the word ‘fact’, and a little more introspective about just how grounded in reality our own beliefs really are.
I believe slavery, genocide and female genital mutilation are perfectly acceptable. Desirable even. Respect my right to free speech or else you are a tyrant. /s
While you should actually respect my right to think and say this, any action to gather support for it, much less make it happen should be swiftly condemned and I should be ostracized.
What matters is whether our words and actions are in support of giving everyone the capability to be their best selves. Taking a knee in protest of police officers (who are given extraordinary rights and powers specifically to protect the populations capabilities for a food life) murdering innocent people largely on the basis of their skin colour (though any abuse of police power should be condemned) is very much in support of the most basic capabilities – staying alive.
I understand this is sarcasm, but if you really meant what you’re saying I’d say that I completely respect your right to free speech, though I don’t respect you or your ideas.
Though I get that my opinions are starting to sound provincial in a country where more and more people think ‘punch a Nazi’ is an acceptable solution.
“I believe slavery, genocide and female genital mutilation are perfectly acceptable. Desirable even.”
If the subject were “redneck NASCAR fans” then YOU would enthusiastically support genocide and in so many ways “Americans” like you have for decades.
Every opium overdose belongs to Keith Law and his kind. Not one of his kind will ever be man enough to admit this even though they are totally aware of their role.
No, when you comment on an article before you read the article your speech is legally protected…but you also are likely to express a stupid, crap opinion. Just read articles before commenting on them, please. This should be a pretty simple rule of internet discussion. Makes everyone’s life easier.
Ryan why do you hate yourself
Ryan… rethink this
Ryan21,
I get your point. But, you did not point out the even-more ridiculous part of the post.
“Maybe I’ll be able to write about the NL Cy Young race tomorrow. I couldn’t do it today.”
Really, Dave?
I live and work in a center of the opioid crisis, towns in Central Ohio, in an hour radius of Columbus, being ravaged by crime, medical crises and human suffering.
I can’t let Puerto Rico, Bruce Maxwell or what I see on a daily basis stop me from working. Too many people, customers and employees alike, depend on me being “on” and productive.
I thought the lady I saw today at a local post office, taking 10 minutes to pick out stamps, while ignoring the crying heroin addict next to her, was the worst #firstworldproblem person I had come across in a while.
Dave, you are worse. “Congrats.”
I think you missed Dave’s point. He was acknowledging that his job writing about niche baseball statistics didn’t have much meaning on a day when it was overshadowed an larger social issue.
I totally hear what you are saying about having a job where you have to be “on” no matter what. I’ve had jobs like that too, and it is rough. I took Dave’s pre-amble as less of a “woe-is-me” and more of a “lets take a step back for minute because the real world has just inserted itself in a pretty major way into a game we all love”
You effectively “took a knee” for Dave’s column, but you get downvoted 85 times?
NFL’s free speech argument is pathetic because other players have wanted to express personal sentiments in similar small ways and have been prohibited from doing so. That is what is especially obnoxious about the NFL stance.
This comment was not effectively “taking a knee”. Bruce Maxwell was making a statement for something he believes in in a well thought out manner. Ryan21 called some people some names on the internet.
Thank you Dave.
What I consider to be a fairly evenhanded take on the kneeling situation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPqOotT_ta8
“When Maxwell made his major league debut last season, he was the first American-born black catcher in baseball since Charles Johnson retired more than a decade earlier”
…
I had honestly never noticed there were no black catchers. That I didn’t notice tells me something, doesn’t it.
(Inevitable “there’s nothing stopping them” comment will be missing the point.)
Back to looking up Puerto Rico organizations. I see GlobalGiving has a project and they have solid ratings as an organization.
https://www.globalgiving.org/projects/hurricane-maria-caribbean-relief-fund/
To be fair to you, there are catchers such as Salvador Perez who is very dark skinned, but identifies as Latinx, instead of black. It is an easy thing to overlook when there is a perception that is visible, but not meeting someone’s true identification.
Yeah the categorization of Latin American athletes is another discussion entirely– guys like Welington Castillo and Martin Maldonado very obviously read as Black. I was also about to comment that Russell Martin’s biracial but turns out he was born in Canada, so Dave wasn’t wrong.
If anyone is missing your point I think it’s because you didn’t make one. What specifically does that fact that you didn’t notice tell you?
0.9 career war, total NOTHINGBURGER
Over 104 games total as a backup-slated catcher. So he’s actually solid. Surprise.
As a non-star who hasn’t gotten an extension, he’s taking a significantly greater risk to his future career and earning potential than a star would.
I would say that makes the act far more meaningful than if someone who had already made their money or had a long-term deal in place decided to go first. If MLB owners decide that Maxwell’s stance is too great a “distraction”, it’s not too hard to treat a backup catcher as a fungible commodity.
Case in point: Steve Clevenger.
One player discussed his views and future actions in a well thought out way ahead of time with owenership, management, and his teammates. The other called black people animals. Not exactly apples and oranges, but I agree – if Clevenger was any good, he would get other chances (see Rocker, John)
I will risk massive downvotes with this.
I feel like the whole point of the kneeling has been hijacked by the conservative side of the argument. The point isn’t if these people that are kneeling are patriotic or not, nor does that matter to the point of why they are protesting. By focusing on the kneeling and if it is appropriate, we are avoiding looking at the real issue.
The issue is that there is a large segment of the American population that feels that they have been treated unfairly by our justice system, and in this case, that it is riskier to be a person of color interacting with law enforcement, than it is to be a white person. We shouldn’t be trying to divert attention from this issue. It doesn’t matter if it is fact or not, which I believe the evidence is fairly clear.
The only thing we should be focused on as a society when a group says they feel like they are being treated in a different way is quite simple. We should stop, listen to their argument, listen to ideas that they have to try to fix the problem they are perceiving, and then take the ideas that would work the best and attempt to implement them so that the perceived problem is resolved. If the idea doesn’t fix the problem, and it still exists, then have the conversation again, come up with more new ideas, and then attempt to fix again.
I am not a person of color. I have been privileged most of my life, nor have I faced many disadvantages. I am able to empathize though, because I could have easily ended up unable to walk from birth, but I was lucky enough my parents had great insurance and was able to get me surgery to repair my birth defects. But I easily could have gone in the other direction by being born to other parents. While that is not the same situation, it allows me to listen to the words that people are saying and allowing me to imagine as if I was in their position. We all need to start listening to each other and figuring out how we can help each other.
I honestly couldn’t care less if kneeling for the national anthem is patriotic or not, the right thing to do or not, or anything else. Kneeling isn’t the issue. It is just a way for someone to start getting their message across. The message is the only thing we should be looking at.
You’re worried about being downvoted *HERE* on Fangraphs? You aren’t on Breitbart making your statement. Whenever the conversation turns political, the strong majority on this site have a liberal perspective. Your comment is about as safe as it gets over here.
I was more worried that I was venturing a little too far off topic by going into the racial elements rather than just sticking to the patriotism. I don’t care what people think of my politics as they are all over the place.
We could focus on the perceived issue if they weren’t doing something that is disrespectful to bring attention to it.
Feel free to send out a manual of peaceful protests that are
A) universally acceptable and
B) striking enough that they will garner attention.
Not during the anthem. That is a time when our differences don’t matter. We are simply Americans showing respect for our country, what it stands for, and those who have fought for it. During the anthem we are one with and all issues are set aside.
But what does it stand for? To many the America flag stands for the racially divided world they live in. To some who study America’s past, maybe it stands for the genocide and slavery that came before us.
I think it is a folly to act like the flag has some higher meaning and unites us, when throughout history the inverse as been true. America as a whole doesn’t have a great history when it comes to specific groups of people, especially non-whites.
All that being said, I served, I understand the the concept of paying respect to our country. I just disagree that forced nationalism (IE making people stand for the anthem) is the way to pay our respect. And what does it matter if we are supposed to be “all one” during a song but no other time? What does that say about us?
The human race as a whole has a terrible history when it comes to treatment of “others,” but if you want to judge nations on a scale then the United States would arguably rank the best in history. For instance, no other nation even comes close in the numbers of foreign-born residents. Trump’s various xenophobic comments notwithstanding, the United States has always been a melting pot where immigrants were allowed to come and make a better life for themselves.
I do agree that this was probably not the most effective way to get to constructive change, considering that almost no one right now is really talking about racial justice issues, they’re tuning in for the ‘who kneeled today’ reality show, and all the subsequent hot takes about patriotism.
But you have to admit that most of America isn’t interested in having this conversation, and that doing something perceived to be disrespectful is a good way to get people to take a break from their nachos and beer and maybe even think about the issue for a minute.
It really isn’t. It’s turning people away from that conversation and causing them to dismiss out of hand anything else those athletes might want to say.
alpha309, you are completely missing the point, which is that kneeling is precisely the wrong form of protest exactly because it diverts attention from the supposed cause and provokes negative reactions that make people much less likely to be sympathetic. For instance, I’ve been speaking out against unnecessary use of force by law enforcement for years, so it’s something that deeply disturbs me and something I would very much like to see addressed in a way that benefits all Americans. But kneeling during the national anthem infuriates me and makes me uninterested in anything those athletes have to say. The anthem doesn’t have anything to do with excessive use of force. Obviously it’s something that should be unifying that represents all of us, but then Kaepernick came along and stated that he had no intention of showing any respect for this nation as long as it oppressed black people. Contrast that with the speech by LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, Chris Paul, and Carmelo Anthony before the 2016 ESPYs on the subject that was very positively received. Kneeling during the anthem is a stupid form of protest because it is so divisive, turning off the majority of the population that in theory you would want to support your cause.
It’s too bad we don’t have any leaders right now who are willing or able to effectively articulate that respect for the rule of law and due process is a foundational aspect of any even nominally functional & free society, *and* that our society in particular is not doing as well as it should to earn that respect, specifically among minority groups. Instead, like everything in this country, the extremes have dominated the conversation and want to make it about whether you’re a traitor or a white nationalist, as if there is no space in between.
But man, the NFL itself has entered a new stratosphere of soap opera this season – the fact that it’s basically a sports themed Bold and the Beautiful is one of the reasons I tuned football out a long time ago.
Sweet! Politics on FanGraphs. I was wondering where I could go to get some politics with my sports. Ugh
There already was politics with your sports–the national anthem plays in the stadium before every baseball game. You just didn’t have to think about it before.
I mean, I know that in 2017 (and perhaps always) everything is politics and politics is everything. It’s just that I go to FG to get away from ESPN and SI and all that. I understand that this means a lot to a lot of people and it’s a big discussion. I just wish there was a diversity of thought. It appears that if you support those who dislike kneeling during the anthem, instant downvotes. No discussion.
This thread has plenty of discussion. If you need a refuge from politics, the headline was pretty clear on the subject matter.
You probably already know this, but politics is going to intrude on every single aspect of your life in the next couple of years. I know it means we* don’t get mindless escapism anymore but you better buck up. The genie ain’t going back in the bottle.
*those of us who are lucky enough not to have to worry about life-and-death matters every day
On this topic: I just saw this article.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/09/trumps-red-light-letter/540960/
Im sure people of color would like to avoid the politics of it as well…
Sorry about your inconvenience of voluntarily reading and commenting on an article I guess.
Sports are in every way political. Even from the beginning. The first sports were designed for one of a probable two reasons, one to train the military to work together as a group, or as a form of competition to decide the winner of a war in one on one competition of each military’s best athlete (in this case, they were designed as duels) Since then, sport has continued to be political in almost every way.
Modern sports have especially been involved in more intricate political involvement than previous versions. Ever since the economic impact of sports on their general surroundings have local politicians and sports teams become intertwined. It is why teams get billions of taxpayer dollars to build new stadiums, the largest city without a team in any particular league is used as a hammer in negotiations with cities, and other such issues.
Then take in figures such as Mohammed Ali, who was willing to go to jail for their political stances.
Even free agency is a political maneuvering for players, where local politics are definitely considered for a player to go to certain teams, such as tax rate, which could be the deciding factor between a player deciding on a CA team or a TX team, which would be a multi-million dollar decision.
If FG is going to run political articles I wish they would inject some math into the discussion. Someone needs to, and that is supposed to be the core competency around here.
(Or I guess we could get Jeff Sullivan to do some excellent sentence construction.)
timprov, this is an underrated comment. I think it’s actually something that most of the regulars around here would like to see. I realize there will always be those who moan “stick to sports” and who won’t want to see this at all, but I would guess that the base here, regardless of personal leanings, would be interested in an analysis of race or protest related issues in baseball.
John, what would you be interested in knowing? I couldn’t answer those questions now probably, but maybe someday.
I’d leave that up to smarter people than myself, but some tally and analysis of the takes people have on twitter, comments sections of sports media outlets, and the like, aggregated (which I would guess there isn’t a good tool for) and some kind of regression? Some way to answer who is saying what, and where, so we can try to figure out why the variety of takes (I can count at least three) cluster where they do? I don’t know, is that a dumb idea? It wouldn’t answer a new question, but would put numbers to observable trends and maybe there’s a chance it could reveal something we don’t know?
That’s outside of my specialty, and I couldn’t do it myself, but I know how you would do it. Use python to scrape those sites, train a text classifier to capture sentiments (and potentially also demographics), and then report either cross-tabs or a regression.
I wonder if there are any machine learning / text-classifier researchers who would be willing to do this.
Well, according to a poll I saw, 58% of Americans agree with Trump on this issue, vs. 39% support what he’s doing vis-a-vis N. Korea. Which tells you why he brought this issue up.
And it’s gonna get worse, cause Twitter is expanding to 280 characters, though I’m not sure our President can form a coherent thought that lasts that long.
I am a white, heterosexual male. I was born privledged, in that I belong to the majority (or in the case of being male, a social majority) on all three counts. Acknowledging this does not mean I have to be self-loathing regarding any of these classifications.
When white people bristle at the idea of “white privilege”, it seems they are doing so because they believe with that acknowledgment comes a social pressure to hate one’s self for having that privilege.
I can’t speak for most minorites (except the Jews, I suppose), but if I had to speculate, acknowledgment of the problems faced by certain minorites is what is being asked, not a forced sense of self-loathing by those with privilege.
The thing is considering yourself priveledged requires a certain amount of self loathing. You’re saying any (or maybe even all) of the positive aspects of your life have nothing to do with your own actions, and everything to do with “being born lucky.” Do you believe that?
If you do, then you don’t believe anything positive in your life is your own doing my….hence self loathing.
If you don’t believe it, then you can’t refer to yourself as privileged.
Why does it have to be so binary? I recognize that I was born with certain advantages, but that doesn’t mean I also believe “all of the positive aspects of my life have nothing to do with my own actions.” Just because I know I am luckier than others in some respects doesn’t mean I have to loathe myself.
Self loathing probably is too strong. Everybody in the US is born with advantages and disadvantages. Believing otherwise is selling yourself short. I think that’s what bugs people
Considering yourself privileged requires no negative connotation about oneself at all. I can easily look at my life and realize I would be in a completely different situation than if I was born into about 80% of other homes, and much worse off. I was very lucky to be born into the family I was. I recognize I never had a want or need for anything at all, and my parents had the health insurance I needed at birth. However, at the same time, I want every single other human in the world to be able to have the same privileges and experiences (or better) than I did. I don’t think anything should be taken away from me because I was born with it, I think everyone else should have it.
What is different about the disadvantages that we are born with, are the advantages we are given to counteract against them. The fact is that too many people are born with major disadvantages, that do not have the advantages that can help them overcome the disadvantages.
The biggest problem is too many of the disadvantages and advantages that we are born with are generational. When my parents pass away, I will get a modest inheritance. I was born into an area with, at the time, above average schools, and had enough to do whatever I wanted or needed. When a kid is born in a poor situation, often will owe money to several people to provide a proper funeral for their parents and possibly inherit debt, every school near them is not great and they don’t learn what they need in order to be a success, and they don’t even have enough money to move out to get better services.
There should be no negative feelings towards oneself that you were better off. The feeling should be positive that you had it so great that you want the people that don’t have the amazing experience that you do to have the same experience.
I am privileged in that it would’ve almost certainly been much harder to reach my position in life if I’d been born a black woman, for example. So many things are more simple for me just because I’m a white male. That doesn’t mean I didn’t work hard to get here, that I’m ashamed of my heritage, or that I should feel bad for existing. It’s a simple matter of fact, and we really should be less touchy about it.
I very much don’t believe that privilege implies guilt – you’re not born into guilt, you accumulate it yourself.
I hate that somehow the issue of “black people getting shot up by cops at routine traffic stops” has somehow been reduced to “white self-loathing.”
I’m white. I wish others would show a little more empathy for the people grieving the death of a community member, the anger they show at unjust killings, and the Kafka-esque experience that many African-Americans have when dealing with the American legal system.
You don’t have to suddenly love kneeling-at-the-flag protests. They’re meant to shock you, after all. Just have a little bit more empathy.
I wish people would be angry because unarmed people are getting shot to death by the police. Who cares what color any parties skin is, I care that people are dead who shouldn’t be.
Police in the US shouldn’t have looser ROE than the US Marines in Helmand providence.
I totally agree with you that it shouldn’t matter what color the people shot by police are, but it just so happens that it is disproportionately affected the black community.
The socioeconomic standing that you are born into has much more to do with privilege than the color of your skin when you are born. People need to stop blaming skin color or any other perceived disadvantage for a lack of opportunity.
And what socioeconomic standing are most people with darker skin color born into? And one step further, why are most people with darker skin color born into these socioeconomic standings?
Not sure this comment deserves the down votes, if I’m reading it right. I recognize that race can be a strong indicator of class, but bluerum’s claim that a structural lack of opportunity is what leads to structural disadvantages is true, isn’t it? Seem like his effort here is to remind us of some subtle differences between race and class (though again, they do correlate, I get it).
bluerum29 is correct. “White privilege” is the buzz phrase of the moment, but while it definitely exists, other forms of privilege like wealth, celebrity, and social connections are vastly stronger than race.
“Systematic disadvantage” is just so much a better concept. It’s more accurate as well as less designed to make people feel bad.
I hate hate hate that people are trying to insert their politics into sports. It doesn’t matter what side, I hate it. Leave your damned politics out of sports! Sports is where many of us go to get the Hell away from the disgusting, despicable mess that is American politics today.
I had a “Giant Meteor 2016 – Just End It All Already” yard sign and bumper sticker during the election. I can’t even conceive of two worse human beings ever running for president of the U.S. (well, maybe John McCain is close) and everything the pair of them has done since the election has just made them both look even worse.
So take your damned politics and go somewhere else with them. Sports are where some of us go to escape the shameful, bitter, partisan, racist-on-both-sides madness that is American politics today.
Who forced you to click on this article?
Some inconsiderate person polluted one of my sports sites with disgusting politics. Who forced you to be such a jerk?
Or put another way, why are you so scared (and you do seem scared) of political engagement. More than any protest at any sporting match, one of the highest forms of disrespect for a nation and its citizens is to refuse to engage.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m partly sympathetic. I also wish things were better so we didn’t have to talk like this. But things are bad. Things are really bad. And going full “head in the sand,” or calling people names for forcing you to think about uncomfortable things demonstrates a frustration that I think you’ve misplaced.
Uncomfortable things? Like the murder of my next-door neighbor? The rapes of one of my friends, of one of my students and the attempted rape of another? My neighbor going outside unarmed to find four thugs breaking into his car and being shot down in his driveway like a dog? My other neighbor’s car being stolen and stripped? Another one seeing burglars in his carport and immediately being shot at by them? Or when I was in college and was nearly killed by a racist mob and was only saved by the police?
I support and thank God for the police every day. Unsurprisingly, I have zero sympathy for criminals of any race or anyone of any race complaining about “injustice” and I would happily massively increase both the powers of the police and the length of criminal prison sentences if I could.
You’re right, things are bad. And what is needed is not protests. It’s more law and order…a lot more.
John, you’re passive aggressively insulting Johnston by pretending that he is “scared” when nothing in his post would indicate that. A lot of people simply don’t want politics to infect so many other areas, in much the same way that people who don’t enjoy sports may become tired of hearing someone talk about that relentlessly.
What bugs me about the whole situation is you’ve got a person born as a minority, not from a wealthy family, who’s become one of the top 1% of income earners in the country complaining about the treatment of minorities in that country. And he earns that income playing a game.
To me Maxwell’s story is literally everything that’s great about this country, and I think a better message would be one that says through maybe some careful planning and hard work you to can rise to the level of success he’s achieved, no matter what situation your born into.
Instead he uses his platform to complain about the very country that’s given him so many amazing opportunities. If Bruce Maxwell were born into his situation in 90% of other places in the world, do you think he’d have the opportunity to rise to the same level of success that he’s achieved here? Absolutely not. That’s why I find his protest to be offensive
Offensive and done in the wrong place. Who gets to politically protest at work and not get fired? Nobody.
No politics in sports!
“Who gets to politically protest at work and not get fired?”
Spot ON
+1 from me.
Everyone in California gets to politically protest at work and not get fired. California Labor Code 1102 makes it a misdemeanor to punish a worker in any way for protesting at work. The only time it is permissible to take action against a politically protesting employee, is if the person is supposed to be on the job and they miss work by being at a remote location instead of their work area.
Everyone, dude! What are you talking about?!
In my state anyone who protested at work would be fired instantly.
But then I left California years ago, when I realized it was on its way to becoming a People’s Republic. I had no idea that the rot has gotten so bad so quickly.
The only standard to fairness is wealth?
Someone who has benefited from the system based on special skills that very few have can’t fight for other people who have not benefited and do not have the same skills that were in the same situation?
If these people were not fast, or could catch a ball, or could hit a ball, or had great reflexes, or were of an extraordinary size, where would they be at?
The position that these people who have benefited can no longer care about the communities they grew up in, still know people in, and have family in is a joke. I do not have the experience these people have, nor do I act like it, but if I were succeeding past what my community was, and I saw injustices happening in my community, I would sure as hell speak out to try to help those I care about.
All I’ll say is that Trump has generated far more publicity for Kaepernick than Kaepernick ever could have done himself.
Maybe Kaepernick should write the White House a thank you card.
The only good part about the President chiming in on this topic is that the reaction by the players has caused ratings to fall even more.
Can you please provide a source for the ratings fall?
The publications that every other source get their information from has ratings as rising.
The ratings have been going down for a few years now since before the protests. There are several different causes for these declines, starting with over saturation of the product, fan concerns about the CTE issue, millenials breaking away from traditional viewing habits, and then the protests last year added a little bit as well. All indications are that any ratings slide in the NFL has been brought on by several different factors all hitting it at the same time, and feeding off each other.
But that doesn’t change the fact that ratings were up for this week’s games.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/ratings-actually-improved-nfls-tumultuous-week-3-1042996
http://deadline.com/2017/09/redskins-sunday-night-football-ratings-nfl-protests-star-trek-discovery-donald-trump-nbc-1202176141/
Yes there are many factors. I decided to stop watching at the beginning of the season for various reasons. In the end, the numbers were down last year and they continue to look like they are down this year.
Well said, Dave!
The part of this discussion that bothers me the most is the idea that “Americans shouldn’t say negative things about America — it isn’t patriotic.” I hear this all the time as a talking point on the news, from “man-in-the-street” interviews.
But of course, one of the most patriotic things you can do as an American is point out things that are wrong with the country, in the hope of making them better.
Say whatever you want, but say it on your own time, and not at work. And don’t do it when the flag is involved – people bled and died for that flag, and that’s disrespecting them.
People have bled and died for the values that the American flag represents – re-read the Gettysburg Address, I don’t think those values have or ever will be as well stated as Lincoln put them.
I can get behind this to the degree that these players are merely stating that our society isn’t living up to its stated ideals. Casually accepting an imperfect status quo would be the real disrespect for our veterans – we should hold ourselves to the standards they fought for.
This isn’t a bunch of hippies burning flags and calling for revolution, they’re mostly just trying to get an otherwise generally ambivalent society to listen.
Not even China is that dogmatic about their flag.
“Not even China is that dogmatic about their flag”
Evidence to support this?
“Say whatever you want, as long as I agree with it.”
It really depends on what’s being said, right? I can’t say I’ve EVER met someone who wasn’t willing to hear out, “America could do XYZ better”. But when it comes out as “America itself is just plain unjust” – you do lose people pretty quick.
Nothing of substance to add to the discussion, here, but I threw out the first pitch at an A’s spring training game, and Bruce Maxwell was the catcher. I was a jerk tried to throw a knuckleball, but he was cool about it.
Probably because it didn’t “knuckle” 🙂
If they are trying to protest that the police/legal-system is unjust, they have managed to turn it from that into “The country itself is unjust”, by deciding to protest the symbol of the country instead of protesting the legal system…and so instead of dividing us between
“those who want all to receive fair treatment vs those who don’t” (a winning topic)
They’ve divided us between
“those who feel the country is essentially good, vs those who feel it is essentially unjust”. (a losing topic)
Those in favor of this form of protest have grown firmer in their belief that “the system is unjust” – and those against it, have run out of patience for being told that their system, and probably them personally, are racist and unjust.
Those who believed we’re unjust, still do; those who didn’t, still don’t – just the divide between them is wider. That’s what has been accomplished so far.
If they were really courageous they would have joined BLM protests in the streets. Fact is, they don’t want to be near those people.
One of my friends wrote this. For the record, he is a non-white veteran who lost a son in Iraq.
“Mr. Paying Customer drives through a fast food window and is insulted by the punk slinging burgers. Mr. Paying Customer calls corporate and complains about the improper and insulting conduct. Corporate wishes to protect its brand; it fires the employee over a single $7.50 transaction.
Mrs. Paying Customer forks over $350 for a seat to a football game and is insulted by the team employees who disrespect the flag and the anthem, both of which have very special meaning to his Gold Star Family. Mrs. Paying Customer and tens of thousands of other customers notify the NFL they find the employees guilty of reprehensible conduct. After several weeks, they are still waiting for a a reply.
The burger joint receives favorable publicity for its action, which results in increased business.
The NFL cannot understand why seats are suddenly empty and ratings and ad revenue have tanked.”
This is the same very stupid road that MLB is heading down. Keep politics out of sports!