Is Jose Ramirez a Starter or Reliever?

Jose Ramirez’s live arm was on display against Kevin Gausman this past Friday. The New York Yankees’ minor-leaguer consistently unleashed 94 mph to 95 mph four-seam fastballs against the Bowie Baysox from his low three-quarter arm slot. The pitch touched 97 mph, but Ramirez’s low release point kept it on the same plane on which it was released. It did, however, feature arm-side run.

Ramirez complemented his four seamer with an 81 mph to 84 mph changeup that featured significant vertical drop and slight fade as it neared the plate. The right-hander commanded the pitch well down in the zone and it was his go-to out pitch when he was ahead in the count. But his arm speed slows down noticeably during his delivering when compared to his fastball.

The Baysox were helpless against Ramirez’s one-two punch. The Dominican lasted five innings, struck out seven batters and walked one.

With two above-average offerings, the 22-year-old Yankee minor-leaguer has a strong foundation to become a major league starting pitcher — but there still are several questions he’ll need to answer before his future role becomes clearer.

One concern is inefficiency. Ramirez’s Double-A walk rate is just 5.5% in 24 innings, but his fastball command is poor. Against Bowie, he often worked deep into counts. Scouts who have followed his career noted his pitch counts escalate quickly and he rarely lasts deep into games — though Ramirez may be turning that trend around. In Double-A this season he’s averaged just fewer than 16 pitches per inning, which would land him between the sixth and seventh  innings on a full workload.

But to be effective as a starter, he’ll need to do more than throw strikes. He’ll have to throw quality strikes, and those will only come with improved command.

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Another issue is his breaking ball. Ramirez throws a “slutter” — a slider with predominately horizontal break. It’s a poor 86 mph to 88 mph pitch that has little present swing-and-miss ability. On two occasions near the end of his start, Ramirez flashed a below-average — but improved — slider with more horizontal tilt, but this shape needs to be far more consistent and his command must improve.

Finally, Ramirez’s delivery has noticeable effort and recoil. While he’s well-proportioned at 6-foot-3 and likely is more than the 190 pounds he’s listed at, Ramirez’s mechanics, along with his other issues, could ultimately push him to the pen. In the bullpen he could be a dangerous high-leverage reliever who can get left-handed hitters out with his changeup.

The Yankees should keep the Dominican as a starter until Ramirez’s issues force him to the bullpen. The rotation will grant him valuable repetitions and opportunities to improve his slider and command. None of the three concerns is insurmountable, but collectively, they’ll likely be too much for him to overcome.





Formerly of Bullpen Banter, JD can be followed on Twitter.

21 Comments
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Cool Lester Smooth
13 years ago

NOOOOOO!!!

Ah, well. The Yankees are due some (any) good luck with their pitching prospects at this point, aren’t they? Maybe cleaning up his mechanics will allow him better command and a 45 breaking ball.

I believe!

YanksFanInBeantown
13 years ago
Reply to  JD Sussman

I meant that the pitxh could improve to a 45.

Cool Lester Smooth
13 years ago

Fuck. Username schizophrenia.

Slutter
13 years ago

Please refer to me as “Clider” in future posts. Kids read this, you know…

Slitter
13 years ago
Reply to  Slutter

You think you have it bad?

steveoh
13 years ago

“Ramirez’s delivery has noticeable effort and recoil.”

Uh no? Ramirez has some of the easiest gas you’ll see. Maybe you should watch for example Pineda pitch. I don’t understand where you are getting this idea at all.

As for command/control, he walked only 2.7/9 last year, and so far 1.9/9 this year. He looked mostly great in spring training…

And the general idea that he will likely become a reliever is ridiculous to even entertain at this point. He displayed two major league ready pitches in spring training (fastball and changeup) and is dominating AA so far to the point that even with the sss he should be moved up to AAA soon, as a starter.

Cool Lester Smooth
13 years ago
Reply to  steveoh

Command=/=Control.

You might be able to scout control from a box score, but command is about getting your pitches to go where you want them to.

steveoh
13 years ago

I didn’t say they were equal.

Cool Lester Smooth
13 years ago
Reply to  steveoh

And the author didn’t have any issues with Ramirez’s control. There is no way to determine his command from his BB/9, so I just assumed that you were incorrectly conflating the two.

steveoh
13 years ago

They are not equal, but there is usually some correlation. It’s unusual for a pitcher to have good control but bad command in the strike zone. And I haven’t just based my opinion on stats, I have watched him pitch also, but I didn’t want to only post “that’s not what I see”.

I’m not saying Ramirez doesn’t have any pitch count issue, but I certainly do not think he is a borderline reliever.

Tyler K Patterson
13 years ago
Reply to  steveoh

Agreed here. But I agree even more with your earlier comment on JR’s delivery. Seems pretty effortless with minimal elbow bend from a good arm slot. His release point is a tab bit inconsistent (I was surprised was not mentioned in the article). However, I agree with JD that Ramirez may be better suited to the pen as of right now but for a completely different reason and one which JS alludes to, that being JR having only two pitches, although both are plus pitches.

Cool Lester Smooth
13 years ago
Reply to  steveoh

I don’t know man, I’m still in recovery from laughing at people saying Betances had command issues in 2010, because of how low his BB/9 was.

Also, I’m with Tyler on the reliever thing. If he doesn’t develop an actual breaking ball, he’s not going to be a successful starter in the major leagues. In the pen, though, I’m seeing visions of Eric Gagne with the elite velocity and great changeup.

Tyler K Patterson
13 years ago
Reply to  steveoh

@JD

Can’t argue with that I suppose. I was basing my statement on a comparison of Ramirez’s throwing motion to a guy like Chris Sale? Is that proper? If so, does CS have the same worries?

Tyler K Patterson
13 years ago
Reply to  steveoh

@JD

Good stuff thanks for your responses. The reason I brought Sale up was because I thought I read somewhere that his arm-action would never lead to an injury, as he was being compared to Randy Johnson in that manner, who was never hurt. I could be misremembering that though I’m not sure. I agree with your %s also, but if JR can develop one other pitch I think his chances of starting increase dramatically. Thanks again for your responses cool stuff here.

mbn
13 years ago
Reply to  steveoh

Phil Hughes is the classic example of a pitcher with very good control, but poor command in the strike zone. That’s why he gives up all those HRs.

Disagreements!
13 years ago

His arm whip looks painful. Is that an inverted W?

How much of a battle is it to make sure his arm speed is the same on all his pitches?

Tyler K Patterson
13 years ago
Reply to  Disagreements!

It is something that is fixed with experience and not a major issue from what I’ve read elsewhere. The key take-away is that, even with the decreased armspeed on the change-up, it is still a solid pitch right now and, as JD said, is JR’s go-to put-away pitch when he is ahead in the count. Something that needs to be fixed obviously but it is not a major issue in my opinion.

geefee
13 years ago
Reply to  Disagreements!

The elbow doesn’t appear to get above his shoulder, so I don’t think it’s an inverted W, but there’s some “seagull” and the arm really lags. It looks painful to me too, but then I couldn’t get my arm into that position in the first place without pulling all the muscles in my back and shoulder. He’s pretty high effort, but he has a long loose arm action too.