JABO: Chase Utley Tackles Ruben Tejada
When Bartolo Colon jogged in from the bullpen to replace Noah Syndergaard, we thought we were going to be talking about the wisdom of using a pitch-to-contact starter in relief when a strikeout was the preferred outcome. But then Howie Kendrick hit a line drive up the middle, which Daniel Murphy fielded and flipped to shortstop Ruben Tejada in an effort to turn an inning-ending double play. And then this happened.
There’s no real way to describe this play in any other way than this: Chase Utley, realizing his role shifted from baserunner to defender, barreled into Ruben Tejada with the intention of preventing him from throwing the ball to first base. To do this, Utley waited until the last possible moment to slide, not even attempting to touch the base as his body upended Tejada, whose legs were taken out from under him and then landed violently on the ground. The impact forced Tejada to be removed from the game.
Dave is the Managing Editor of FanGraphs.
I love that everyone keeps saying “Chase Utley tackled Tejada”, because lots of people tackle people’s knees with their face, lol.
Utley very clearly intended to take out Ruben, maybe not hurt, but he wanted him out. It was a dirty slide.
He was mimicking the tackles of the concurrent Mexico-USA soccer game
No in soccer this gets an automatic suspension and a red card. Only mlb let people intentionally hurt other people
“Sliding” is a real thing. It involves a player’s inertia overcoming the friction of the player’s body making continuous contact with the ground, thus resulting in a player “sliding” rather than “stopping”. To do this, the player has to both stop running, and make contact with the ground.
In this case, there was no ground-caused friction. There was only inertia, because Utley neither stopped running, nor made contact with the ground. Maybe calling it a leg first tackle is a better definition, but it was a tackle nonetheless.
chase utley is going to have a rough stay in the big apple this week
If I were him I’d avoid ordering soup while in NYC.
NYC has more Yankees fans than Mets fans so depending where he eats he is probably fine.
Now that the Yankees have been eliminated, I’d wager there are a lot more proud, lifelong Mets fans today than there were last week.
Yeah, he can eat at NYY Steak.
“If, in the judgment of the umpire, a base runner willfully and deliberately interferes with a batted ball or a fielder in the act of fielding a batted ball with the obvious intent to break up a double play,…”
This rule doesn’t apply, though, does it? Utley did not interfere with a fielder in the act of fielding a batted ball.
MLB needs a new rule or to add to this one. The umpires, it seems to me, are enforcing the rules there are.
You might, though, refer to 5.09(13). Maybe there is room to blame the umpires after all.
Yeah, that’s the one. Schofield cites in his piece today, but uses the old numbering system. Here’s the language, for those who care. It is very clearly adequate, appearing to have been written to regulate precisely the situation that occurred last night!
[A batter is out when]
“(13) A preceding runner shall, in the umpire’s judgment, intentionally interfere with a fielder who is attempting to catch a thrown ball or to throw a ball in an attempt to complete any play;
Rule 5.09(a)(13) Comment (Rule 6.05(m) Comment): The objective of this rule is to penalize the offensive team for deliberate, unwarranted, unsportsmanlike action by the runner in leaving the baseline for the obvious purpose of crashing the pivot man on a double play, rather than trying to reach the base. Obviously this is an umpire’s judgment play.”
Problem is Chase Utlety NEVER left the baseline half his body was over the base and his hand reached for the bag missing over the top of the bag by inches (maybe 6 at most inches) so there is still no foul and should not be penalized but if the want to change the rule like the home plate issue because of Buster Posey (Scott Cousins crushing him check out you tube) then so be it but as it stands Torres cracked to the New York media pressure for their boy (also not Scott Cousins was never suspended)
Utley was more likely to hit the left field fence than 2nd base, his both feet ended in tejeda, you either have no idea or have no idea
There’s no way that Utley’s actions can be interpreted as trying to be safe at 2nd. He waved at 2nd base as he was flying past it. Even if he had touched the base, he could easily have been tagged out after he flew by the base if he hadn’t broken Tejeda’s leg. He was trying to hit Tejeda and his actions can’t possibly be interpreted in any other way.
His hand was moving down towards the base, but then it moved upwards as his body was rotated on impact. I think he was trying to slap it as he went by.
If you are trying to get to 2nd base you try to sling into 2nd base, you do not try to slide at someone’s knee and then tap 2nd base utley had no intention of getting to 2nd
That is the issue with the rule though not the slide. Tejada caught the ball when Utley was 10 feet away from him. It was in the act of spinning/throwing that he got interfered with. You should NEVER turn your back on a runner coming towards second base. It matters not, MLB will change this next year, and we will be a step closer to baseball without contact of any kind. Coming in 2017: Running full speed at any time will be frowned upon because it increases the likelihood of injury, so people will rejoice that they get to watch dudes jogging around like the Sunday softball league for old-timers. This hate of everything that has danger should stop.
Pretty much everything you just said was bullshit. No offense.
Have heard that before, you have a right to your opinion, why try to bash mine without any legit argument?
If this kind of slide is not already a blatant violation of the rules, then they need to change the rules. Automatic double play, and an automatic suspension for the runner. Hard to blame Utley since this kind of thing is tolerated. They need to STOP tolerating it.
Agreed… It’s just not fair for baserunners to be able to blindside a fielder. Incidental contact is one thing, but these kinds of plays should not be allowed. I think they should consider suspending a runner for certain kinds of inflicted injury regardless of the situation (good luck or bad luck… so be it). Make it very clear to all baserunners that they need to be careful and strategic with how he they act on the base paths at all times, just as any other baseball situation.
I don’t think it would be out of line to significantly penalize a runner for his lack of coordination or regard for another player’s well being (Holliday, Coghlan, Utley, etc…) because they do in soccer, football, and hockey whether intentional or accidental… It’s time they start making baseball players responsible for in game behaviors beyond hitting batters with pitches.
Toss ’em.
I get the “hard slide” into 2B but when a guy doesn’t start sliding until AFTER he’s by the bag and then doesn’t even touch the bag, that’s a problem. And I’m a person that thinks the baseball unwritten rules are complete BS and baseball “fights” are a joke, etc. But the Utley “slide”, and the Coghlan slide, need to be gone from the game.
Colin’s slide was no where near as bad as what Utley did. Kung was three feet in front of second when he was hit. Tejada was 3 feet behind second.
However I agree the whole takeout slide thing needs to stop.
Kang was also about 6 feet wide of the baseline, and Coughlin went in above the knee.
I agree this was more egregious…but the way you describe Kang’s injury makes it seem like it wasn’t that bad of a slide.
Disappointing to see even to this Phillies and Utley fan. He’s always been that kind of player though. Do anything to win and won’t whine a bit about any retribution. The Dodgers sure got the best possible outcome from that play at least.
I definitely agree the rule needs to change, and I think this will spark some change (at least a change in enforcement of the rule already on the book.). But I’m worried this could be a “bad cases make bad laws” situation. Utley’s slide was so egregious and high profile, I’m worried MLB will decide to outlaw the most egregious slides and call it a day, where the rule regarding takeout slides needs a complete overhaul. I’m worried we’ll get a change where Utley’s slide (where the runner is totally indifferent to reaching base) is illegal but Coghlan’s slide (where the runner is clearly targeting the fielder but is at least reaching for the base) is still legal.
I feel pretty confident that if Kang hadn’t planted his left leg and hadn’t broken that leg, there would have been zero outrage over Coglan’s slide outside of the initial Pirate fans calls for interference (in a game they would go on to lose pretty easily). I also feel very confident that if Utley hadn’t broken Tejada’s leg (notice how I worded those two sentences) that every non Dodger fan on the planet would have been calling for the play to have been ruled interference and would have called it dirty.
Coglan’s slide was maybe dirty made worse by a third baseman by trade playing second. Utley’s slide was dirty as anything I’ve ever seen an definitely interference.
I agree with a lot of what you said, but that’s also kind of my point. Coghla was nowhere as reckless as Utley, and Kang had more opportunity to avoid the injury. But whoever’s more at fault, Kang’s injury shows how dangerous takeout slides are, and the rules could be changed to make them less dangerous. Personally, I think the rule should be that on a force play, the runner has to slide directly into the base. And I think the Kang injury created some momentum towards that kind of a change, whereas the Tejada injury makes a change more likely, but also makes it more likely that it will be a more modest change.
Who is the 3B is playing 2B? You make it sound like Kang but he is a shortstop who sometimes plays 3B and has never played second in the MLB.
Oh, Chase…
This is absolutely going to lead to a rules change. We’ve been seeing more and more high profile incidents just this postseason alone, but this? This lead to someone getting injured, and it’s unfortunate that it had to come to this.
There’s an excellent book, The Power of Habit, that details this exact situation. Bad habits (in this case, the takeout slide) exist and persist because they’re just the way things have always gone. It’s only after a terrible disaster that steps are actually taken to change a habitual culture (the book detailed the London Underground fire, and how the safety and emergency standards were woefully outdated for decades, until the fire, at which point steps were taken). The point is, it’s become far too common for something terrible to happen in order to trigger change in a longstanding practice. This incident is that moment, I think.
It’s just a shame that MLB, and other entities or persons, are seldom proactive enough to make meaningful changes before something terrible happens.
“It’s only after a terrible disaster that steps are actually taken to change a habitual culture”
Unless we’re talking about guns, of course.
Keep your politics to yourself.
don’t be a baby about it
yeah, seriously. How many school shootings do we have until we allow teachers to carry firearms?
Screw arming the teachers. Then the whackjobs know to just shoot the teacher first. We need to arm secret student marshals in each class room.
I thought that was an obvious time to call interference and I’m disappointed that wasn’t the result. While they don’t always (in fact, rarely) call that rule you mentioned, they should have here.
they never call interference on a play like that, so no they shouldn’t have called it here either. The only way it’s interference if the runner can’t possibly reach the bag.
If your standing next to the base and diving away from it, I would say that qualifies as “can’t possibly reach the bag.”
Even if you want to call that standing he could’ve reached out with his foot and hit it. However you want to twist my words, the fact is that play is never ruled interference.
But he didn’t.
You can’t use imaginary events as an argument, as to why this wasn’t interference.
If he HAD touched the base, maybe you have an argument. But he did not. So, your point is baseless.
“they never call interference on a play like that, so no they shouldn’t have called it here either.”
OK, but they never review a neighborhood play, so they shouldn’t have reviewed it here.
I might be in the minority in thinking the runner at first should have been called safe. In my mind, despite the bad slide, it’s unlikely that the DP would have been turned. On the other hand, Utley should have been called out because that play should not have been reviewed. If the force at 2nd was the third out, Tejada touches the bag. The little dance he did was solely because he was trying to turn two.
“they never call interference on a play like that”
Incorrect. August 29th, 2007, Mets vs. Phillies, Marlon Anderson was ruled out for interference on second baseman Iguchi who was in the process of fielding a ball from Rollins. The batter was also called out, and the run that scored on the play didn’t count. The inning thus ended. It was almost an identical setup to last night’s game. Had the umpires last night ruled the way the umps did back in that game, the inning ends and it’s still 2-1 in favor of the Mets.
Perhaps it’s true the interference is rarely called in such instances, but sometimes it is.
MLB needs to call it more regularly and tighten up existing rules regarding interference to make it clear the runner cannot aim himself at the fielder if the fielder is behind the bag or to the side of it.
This entire sequence was ridiculous. The Dodgers got rewarded for an obvious violation of the spirit of the interference rule, and a nonsensical non-application of the neighborhood play. Utley got awarded 2nd base although he, at no point, made any effort to touch the bag. It’s not that he *couldn’t* touch the bag, but that he didn’t try. And yet, the team trying to turn the play gets penalized for not being able to turn it despite interference. This play made no sense, got a man badly injured, and is being defended by meatheads who think being hard-nosed is code for wanton violence. A real bummer of a moment in an otherwise tense & enjoyable playoffs.
I was pissed when Coghlan took out Kang, and yet somehow this slide was even worse. Is there really no line that could be crossed to force an umpire to call an egregious “slide” interference?!
Well said on all points. I thought when they reviewed the play and saw that Utley made no effort to even reach for the bag that maybe they’d do the right thing and call interference then. That they actually awarded him the base instead is mind-boggling.
As for a rule change or clarification in the offseason, as much as I’d like to see that my worry is that the prominence of the players involved will weigh in the wrong direction and make it a much tougher sell than “the Posey rule”. That shouldn’t have anything to do with it of course. But I’m afraid the way these things get debated, players and coaches will line up to defend the veteran star Utley (and by extension his actions) even though the particular players involved should be beside the point. But I hope I’m wrong on that.
You’re certainly right based on Cal Ripken’s on-air reaction. I lost some respect for Cal (and can’t really say I lost any for Ernie Johnson, since that happened long ago) when they displayed so much more audible concern for Utley than they did for Tejada.
No, the Dodgers violated the *letter* of the interference rule. But they did not violate the spirit. Because the spirit is “MLB doesn’t care. Blow up middle infielders.”
Now, they can change that, and I’d be fine with that.
Utley clearly did try to tag 2B as he went past it. You can see him staring at 2B and holding his hand down towards it during the replay. I think he even extended his arm to try and touch 2B after he took Tejada’s knee to the head. If he made no attempt to touch second base, why didn’t he use his left arm to at least try protect his head?
You’re right. We’re being too hard on the player who broke someone’s leg through deliberately reckless play.
Tejada’s broken leg isn’t soley Utley’s fault. Tejada should never have turned his back on the runner in a situation like that. He bears partial responsibility.
Mike
It is the victim’she fault that he was shot in the head or she was raped, if tejeda never played baseball, he would never have gotten hurt. Idiots and logic do now alway met
No, middle infielders know they are taking a risk in that situation, and Tejada paid the price. I did’t say it was soley Tejada’s fault, I said he bears partial responsibility. He should never have turned his back on the runner in that situation and he and everyone other middle infielder knows it.
Well said Mike, this is exactly what noone else is mentioning.
He waved at 2nd base as he was flying by it. You can’t overrun 2nd base, remember?
BABIP’d
Fwiw, Dave, although I am 100% in agreement with you and hope they change / clarify the rules soon, I think the rule most relevant to this play is 5.09(13), which refers to a thrown and not a batted ball.
You can’t even contemplate new rules when the existing ones are being interpreted and enforced so arbitrarily! This whole horrible farce turned on a large number of umpires — I’m still not clear whether on the field or in the replay crew, though it seems like the replay crew should take a lot of the blame — completely misinterpreting and misapplying *both* the neighborhood-play rule (which very obviously should’ve applied but was held not to) and the runner-interference rule (which applied but wasn’t enforced, as it far too rarely is).
I mean, first of all, the runner-interference rule on takeout slides has to be enforced. There have been at least two other dangerous, late, fairly dirty slides just in these playoffs already (Gregorius in the AL WC game, and Napoli against the Jays in the 11th inning), and that’s not even counting that Jung-Ho Kang **also** had his leg broken on a similarly dirty slide very recently. But even more than that, Utley and the Dodgers were essentially awarded two outs and a free baserunner by the umpires’ discretion, pretty much directly against not just the spirit but also the clear letter of the rulebook, and MLB’s wagon-circling on that seems like a bigger problem to me even than the continued dangerous non-enforcement of the runner-interference rule.
Two quick comments
As noted, you’ve cited the wrong rule. This isn’t a batted ball. That rule would be a play where a double play grounder to Murphy is intentionally kicked by Utley. I think 6.01(a)(5) is the rule you want, however that requires the runner to be OUT.
The JABO article display horribly on mobile, at least my mobile, due to he narrow column and wide video.
Another issue with this play: the umpires informed Collins that the neighborhood play didn’t apply because it wasn’t a given that the Mets would get a double play.
Why should the potential inability to get the out at first mean that the middle infielder has to increase his risk of getting injured, and how does he determine this conclusion?
A lot of rules, written and unwritten, went out the window last night to get the Dodgers a win in LA. It’s a good thing that the Chief Operating Officer of MLB doesn’t have any ties to the Dodgers or ever tried to own the Dodgers.
This this this. The least sensible thing about it is that the neighborhood play is connected to how likely thy are to turn a double play and not whether or not someone is trying to kill the MI.
Seriously. If it wasn’t a potential double play, why did Utley say he was trying to break up the double play. That makes zero sense.
While we’re on the subject, would we even need to have the neighborhood play if takeout slides like this were properly called interference in the first place? MLB should make that part of the rules review this offseason as well and make it clear that not only is interference going to be called but the neighborhood play is history also. If the runner can’t truck the fielder then there’s no reason the fielder attempting to turn a DP can’t be expected to be actually on the bag with the ball and not just somewhere near it.
This is a pretty reasonable point, I think. You might still want the middle infielder to have some latitude for timing the foot-drag across the bag, but the actual “neighborhood play” i.e. not even touching the bag could probably be dispensed with.
The 1:57 mark of this video shows Kendrick down the line during the collision:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnOP7XEMR_c&feature=youtu.be
I don’t think it’s reasonable to assume there was no chance at a double play.
And I think it’s even less reasonable to dictate when a rule to protect a player is allowed to be used.
MLB could have dealt with this a month ago when Chris Coghlan took it Jung Ho Kang (which still would have been too late but may have prevented the farce we saw last night). But instead, they opted to do nothing because, hey, this is the way the game’s always been played. Ridiculous that this type of garbage is allowed to perpetuate. Whatever Coghlan and Utley did wasn’t baseball. It was dangerous, intentional, and unnecessary, and both plays cost two good players their season, and in Kang’s case, at least part of next as well.
In the NFL, that’s a 15 yard penalty. In hockey, it’s a 10 minute game misconduct. In the NBA, it’s a flagrant two. In soccer, it’s probably a red card. In MLB it’s, “Playing the game hard and the right way.” Bull manure. Coghlan and Utley should Both be suspended until Tejada and Kang can play again.
MLB could have dealt with this a month ago when Chris Coghlan took out Jung Ho Kang (which still would have been too late but may have prevented the farce we saw last night). But instead, they opted to do nothing because, hey, this is the way the game’s always been played. Ridiculous that this type of garbage is allowed to perpetuate. Whatever Coghlan and Utley did wasn’t baseball. It was dangerous, intentional, and unnecessary, and both plays cost two good players their season, and in Kang’s case, at least part of next as well.
In the NFL, that’s a 15 yard penalty. In hockey, it’s a 10 minute game misconduct. In the NBA, it’s a flagrant two. In soccer, it’s probably a red card. In MLB it’s, “Playing the game hard and the right way.” Bull manure. Coghlan and Utley should Both be suspended until Tejada and Kang can play again.
Coghlan at least ended up on second base, and Kang was on the first base side of second when contact was made. Utley ended up about five feet past second base and Tejada was on the SS side of second. Other than both guys got hurt, I don’t see Coghlan’s slide as being half as “not trying to slide into second” as Utley’s.
Kang’s injury occurred on a legitimate take out slide. It was bad, but more or less a common occurrence. Utley’s “slide” was the extreme end to a slippery slope argument about Coghlan’s. I like(d) Utley and I’m generally not opposed to some physical contact in the sport, however I can’t deny what my eyes are telling me. He clearly went way out is way to take out the knees of a defender. This was clearly a dirty play.
The “he didn’t even attempt to touch the bag” narrative is poppycock.
https://twitter.com/HuffPostSports/status/653054512865898497
His attempt to touch the bag was interrupted by a knee to the face.
He certainly didn’t attempt to be safe at second, considering that he finished up six feet past the bag. I’d say if you end up more than three feet past the base, your intention is clear.
Are you blind? He started his slide AT the base. His intentions were blatantly obvious.
Of course his intentions were obvious but that’s not the point. Saying he made no attempt to touch 2B is false. He did, the replay clearly shows that.
What exactly is your point here? Or are you just being pedantic for shits and giggles?
Also…I’m pretty sure trying doesn’t matter. He didn’t touch the base. Which clearly signals touching the base was not his aim. Or would you care to argue that Utley – a professional athlete – just has a hard time trying to touch a base when that is what he’s trying to do?
He is hitting .212 this year …
People are stretching the facts to exaggerate the incident and that may have contributed to Utley’s undeserved suspension.
It doesn’t matter if touching 2B was 2nd on his list of priorities in that moment, he attempted to do so and saying otherwise is false. Utley, like every major league player in that situation before him, assumed he was already out, so it’s understandable why he didn’t focus on touching 2B. Perhaps if he didn’t crash into Tejada’s knee, he would’ve touched the bag. He extended and kept his arm out all the way through the contact with Tejada, proving that he was trying to touch 2B. I think even motioned with his fingertips to try and tag it.
Exactly. There are many potential problems with the Utley slide. Torre identified what was important – he slid very, very late. That might make it a dirty play, an illegal play, whatever you want to call it.
But the play happened right at the bag. Utley’s hand goes over the entire bag and he clearly reaches toward the bag. He doesn’t go back to touch the bag because he was already called out.
I don’t dispute his intent was to break up the doubleplay and to take out Tejada. But claiming the play was out of the baseline or that he didn’t reach for the bag is simply untrue.
Mike,
“It doesn’t matter if touching 2B was 2nd on his list of priorities in that moment, he attempted to do so and saying otherwise is false.”
He did? Because if he REALLY did, he would have actually touched the base. There was literally nothing preventing him from actually touching the base. What replay clearly shows to me is a complete lack of trying to touch the base and to rather hurl himself into a fielder near a base. I don’t see any actually attempt to extend his arm toward the bag at all. He puts it down-ish, but that’s not a clear effort to actually reach to touch the base. Rather a brace to hit the dirt. His hard then shoots forward only as the knee to his head causes his whole body to rotate.
Somethings in life are so easy to do that failing to do them simply means you didn’t try. This is one of those cases.
Yes, there were two things preventing him from trying to touch the base. 1) He wanted to make sure Tejada didn’t turn the double play, and 2) He crashed his head into Tejada’s knee as he was passing over the plate. He’s staring at the base as he slides past it, his hand is down, he does extend his arm out despite Tejada’s knee, and, although I can’t find the replay angle I saw last night, I believe he motions with his fingertips to try and touch the bag. If he weren’t trying to touch the bag, why didn’t he use his arm to protect his head instead? Why did he keep his arm fully extended after taking Tejada’s knee to head? That looked deliberate, not reflexive.
Sorry, I meant preventing him from touching the base.
Um, no mike.
1) If you’re trying so hard to break up a double that you DON’T touch the bag, then you didn’t try to touch the bag.
2) And that’s his own damn fault. Had he actually tried to hit the bag, he wouldn’t have crashed into Tejada’s knee that was actually PAST the bag. Plus, ya know, your argument makes no sense from a pure physics standpoint. If he was headed toward the bag, a collision with a knee above the base would not change that outcome. In fact, it should make it easier as it helps stop his forward momentum that was taking him over and past the bag.
“he motions with his fingertips to try and touch the bag”
Seriously? Are you listing to yourself? His f-ing fingertips? Please. You’re grasping at straws that just aren’t there.
“If he weren’t trying to touch the bag, why didn’t he use his arm to protect his head instead? “
If he was trying to hit the bag, why didn’t he actually hit the bag when he went directly over it?
You and those like you can believe what ever you want, but there is no shred of evidence that Utley actually tried to touch the bag. Like I said, it would have been so easy for him to actually touch the bag that him not doing so proves he just didn’t try. Simple as that.
I’m sorry, this argument is just total bull crap. I’m done.
He made no attempt to be SAFE at 2nd, which is the point. He tried to touch 2nd as he was flying past it. Even if he touched it AND Tejeda missed the bag, he would have been past the base and Tejeda could have tagged him if Utley hadn’t broken his leg.
Um, yes, he did try to touch 2B and Tejada’s knee interfered with his motion towards it. The reason it looked as difficult for him as it did is because his primary objective in that situation was to make absolutely certain the Tejada didn’t turn the double play. But that doesn’t mean he made no effort to touch 2B. He did. He’s looking at the base, he reaches out to touch 2B all the way up to and after taking Tejada’s knee, and he deliberately extends his arm out as if trying to the touch the base after receiving the blow. And if he motioned with his fingertips to reach 2B, then he clearly was trying to touch 2B.
Whether he was giving 100% effort into touching the base or 5% effort, saying he made no attempt to touch 2B is false.
Mostly agree with everyone’s comments. The wrong rule issue has been addressed well in the comments. I understand why most people feel like this play was especially bad…
Just want to ask… If Mr. Tejada doesn’t try to TURN HIS BACK TO THE INCOMING RUNNER, does he get injured? He knew Utley was coming, he knew what type of guy Utley is. Part of the logic of baseball is that double play balls need to be hit hard and right at you for them to be an easy turn. After that, the runner comes into play and infielders can’t pretend they don’t. Double plays shouldn’t be made any easier than they already are. The acrobatic turns required to stay safe and turn two are some of the nicest plays to watch. I’m saying this because I believe Utley could have flipped Tejada with a clean slide. The type of slide that might be getting thrown out with the bath water in this post. Was Utley’s slide clean? No. Not technically. Thus, it’s fair to have an issue with that specific slide. But takeout slides in general? The clean ones are an important part of the game and they put the entire onus on the infielder to stay safe. No reason any shortstop or second baseman should be hurt by a clean slide. Kang had his feet planted as if he didn’t expect it. It’s a tragedy, for sure, but Kang should have known better. Tejada, too, although Utley’s slide was dirty.
This.
Tejada was in a weird position, he got blown up the way that every 2B gets blown up on a takeout slide but the outcome was worse since his back was to the play. Everything said is correct but the anger shouldn’t be directed @ Utley, it should be directed @ the rule and the enforcement.
Neighborhood play very clearly did not apply because the feed wasn’t (obviously) at the bag so the MIF get no benefit of the doubt there. This is a very sad outcome but the amount of outrage over it is outsize.
Utley, as mentioned, has a rep for this sort of thing.
And even though there is a culture that allows this, how is it that Utley is one of the few players to injure MULTIPLE players this way?
I think he bears a bit of the responsibility, no?
“very clearly did not apply”
Are you serious ? Even Utley straight out admitted he was breaking up the double play and never argued the out call, but somehow Tejada very clearly couldn’t turn the double play ?
I’d like to know when a neighborhood play has been reviewed since replay came into existence. Or is this the only instance in 2 years of replay where it was reviewed because the throw was (obviously) not at the bag.
I don’t have much to add to the discussion about the slide except to add that according to the Met postgame show, the neighborhood play did not apply because the umpires felt the relay throw pulled Tejada off the bag. I also noticed that as Utley jogged off the field after the play, the only dirt on the lower half of his uniform was on the top of his left knee, nothing at all on the back of the hips like you would expect on someone who was, you know, sliding.
What the controversy over the slide is overshadowing is that the Mets didn’t lose the game because of Chase Utley, they lost because of poor roster construction and Terry Collins’ terrible bullpen management in the 7th inning.
Even if you think letting Syndergaard start the 7th at 101 pitches was defensible, there is no way he should have been left in to face a left handed hitting Utley with a fast runner on first base. The lack of a reliable LOOGY on the roster killed the Mets here (and again when Adrian Gonzales hit later in the inning), but Jonathan Niese or even Addison Russell should have been brought in to face Utley. The choice of Colon over Russell to was completely indefensible, not to mention the decision to use Russell over Niese to face Gonzales.
The Mets had several chances to escape from that inning at worst with the score tied, and the blame for that falls on Terry Collins, not Chase Utley.
Kind of agree with you, but the real problem is that they don’t have a great bullpen outside of familia. Not much you can do if none of your options are. great. What I do agree with is that this has been an issue for years now, and it was addressed too late in the season. Of course the dodgers have a similar issue and it cost them game one.
As for the call, it’s unlikely the throw would beat the runner at first, but there is no way that this doesn’t fall under the neighborhood play. Lame excuse saying the throw took him off the bag. If it wasn’t a double play situation, he would not have had to rush the step. No way he doesn’t touch it if it isn’t a dp.
I wasn’t available to pitch. Heck, I’m not even a pitcher.
Hell, I’m not even a Met!!
After a lot of consideration, I’d like to inform you that you ARE a Met right now, as compensation to them for losing Tejada.
The agreement I negotiated works like this:
1. You go to the Mets as compensation for Tejada for the remainder of the postseason.
2. Derek Jeter has agreed to be the Cubs shortstop for the remainder of the postseason. In addition, the Cubs will be allowed to use any revenues from the sales of Jeter Cubs jerseys towards free-agent signings, without counting toward the salary tax limits.
3. Because of Utley’s actions, the Dodgers have agreed to purchase the outfield sculpture at Marlins Park from Jeffrey Loria.
4. As a settlement of the alleged hacking by members of their baseball operations, the Cardinals have agreed to pay Jeffrey Loria to move the Marlins Park outfield sculpture to centerfield in Busch Stadium.
Best regards,
Joe Torre
Chief Baseball Officer, MLB
As a Mets fan I really wanted Terry to go with Familia there.
I just hope the mets call up someone terrible and have them maim utley. Million dollar bonus to the person who brings me chase utley’a fibula!
Who is the mets backup to Flores other than Kelly Johnson ? Who can they even call up to replace tejada?
Apparently they’re going to call up Matt Reynolds as the injury replacement and backup SS. If it were me I might’ve gone with Dilson Herrera but it does cost some positional flexibility.
I think Reynolds is the only option. You need an actual SS in the mix somewhere. Flores, Johnson, and Herrera are all 2Bs that can play short rather than the other way around.
To compare Utley’s slide with Coglan’s is ridiculous. Cogs was sliding into Kang before the bag and could actually reach it and actually made an attempt to reach it. Was he late in getting down? Maybe, but that’s a judgement call and would take quite a bit of established precedence to have the slide ruled as interference. To suggest that he should have been suspended is just asinine. Also, as pointed out above, Kang’s injury was the result of his inexperience at 2nd, you absolutely do not plant your left leg as a second baseman throwing to first on a double play, especially in front of the bag! Hell there are almost no throws necessary for a 2nd baseman to make with a firmly planted left leg. That’s what happens when guys play out of position. I know people will down vote that. Utley’s on the other hand, was just flat out ugly and almost definitely interference. He started his slide even with the base directly into Tejada’s legs and at no point could have touched the base nor did he even make an effort to touch the base. Should have been interference, a double play and the series headed back to NY with the Mets up 2-0. Start calling the rules properly and maybe this stuff will stop.
No way. Both were bush league. Coghlan slid late, with his leg about two feet off the ground, four feet wide of the base, right into Kang’s plant leg. Kang was not inexperienced at short. He played short his entire career in Korea. I’ll say it again…Coghlan slid late, with his leg high, not even in the same ZIP Code as second base. Yeah, he could technically touch the base. Big deal. That’s how were going to rule on this? Really? Whether or not the guy can touch the base? So, a player who’s 6’4″ can slide further out of the baseline to take out a MIF than a player who’s 5’5″? That makes no sense and you know it. There is never a situation in a baseball game that warrants doing what Coghlan or Utley did. The only thing more disgusting that these “slides,” or whatever you want to call them, is the length that people will go to defend them. There is never a justified reason for intentionally going into another player’s knees when he can’t protect himself.
I don’t love the Coghlan slide but this is a lie. Coghlan slid while Kang was still transferring the ball to his throwing hand. His slide was hard but still clearly legal as he was capable of touching the bag. Kang also took the brunt of the slide because he didn’t jump throw after getting the ball – that doesn’t mean that he should have had to – but the play was just a hard break up play. If you want to suggest that players need to adopt a particular form on a slide into second (know legs sticking up/out) that’s fine, but there’s no real equivalence between these two plays.
Additionally, what is this nonsense about 6’4 players having a larger area to take out a defender versus 5’5? Obviously they should – we shouldn’t penalize the fact that the different physical attributes of players give them different advantages! How dare Jose Altuve be forced to take more steps to his left to field a grounder versus Xander Bogaerts? We should shorten the distance between bases for him!
Videos here:
http://giant.gfycat.com/InexperiencedScientificDowitcher.gif
http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=%2Fphoto%2F2015%2F0917%2Fgettyimages-488745702_r9605_1296x729_16-9.jpg&w=570
Coghlan actually ends up on second, Utley ends up about six feet past it. There’s the difference. Six feet.
That “nonsense” is the baloney that the only criteria of whether said play is legal or not is whether the player can touch the base. So, theoretically, if Manute Bol played in MLB (all 7’8″ of him) he could just about slide into center field to break up a double play, just as long as he can touch the base. I’m sorry, but this touching the base nonsense is so arbitrary. It just boggles my mind that people can actually defend Chris Coghlan on this. Even if I grant you that he was legal in WHERE he slid, which I still contend is a mere technicality (and I would even argue that his slide was illegal according to the letter of the rule), I don’t see how anyone can argue that he was justified in lifting his leg like he did, driving it right into Kang’s knee, and starting his slide as late as he did.
Breaking up a DP is one thing. Going at the knees of a player who can’t defend himself is quite another.
I wonder what Yinka Double Dare thinks.
First off, I hope Tejada has a good recovery. This could hurt his career. He’s a marginal everyday player as it was, and this injury could cut into his opportunities for 2016 at a time in his career when he needs to cement his status. So, get well soon, Ruben!
Second, I think existing MLB rules are the big problem. They are too fuzzy and loose and give players like Utley license to mug another player on the field. There needs to be restrictions that force the runner to go directly at the base — not some poppycock about being able to at least touch the base with one hand. It’s clear Utley was going directly at Tejada, to the right of second base. That’s where things need to change. And players have to start their slide BEFORE the base, not after it. Further, the rules should stipulate that at any time whatsoever if in the umpire’s opinion a player was aiming his body directly at another player with the intent to take him out or harm him, then that player should be automatically out. No ifs, ands, or buts.
It sounds like this latest incident may help accelerate change in the rules so at least there is a silver lining.
I still like the Mets chances in the series. There is a rumor they are calling up Matt Reynolds from the minors to take Ruben’s spot on the roster. This means the kid may make his major league debut in a postseason game. Has this ever happened before?
Some Mets fans are so angry, Utley better hire bodyguards before he comes to NY today.
When a professional athlete is running full speed and slide tackles someone whose back is turned to them with no attempt at obtaining what is supposed to be their actual goal (in this case second base), that is an attempt to harm the other person. Utley should be banned from the playoffs and be significantly fined for his actions.
>And you know what? I haven’t heard one single person complain that they missed catchers getting run over this year. The game has gone on and been as entertaining as ever without that part, and MLB will be just fine without continuing to endanger middle infielders in the future.
This was my big takeaway–who actually wants this in the game?
A huge number of guys who were bullies as kids. Go read the comments a JABO. They act like not enjoying one guy beat the crap out of another guy makes you a wimp. No, I don’t mind a guy beating the crap out of another guy in boxing because there they are following the rules.
Plays at the plate are pretty anticlimatic for the most part now. I wish catchers could block the plate
I’m pretty sure people used to love their public executions too.
I’m actually furious about this on two levels. First, it’s actually a gift to Utley. Can you imagine him taking an AB in New York after that bush league garbage? MLB did him and the Dodgers a favor by removing any possibility that he plays in NYC. Second, it illustrates the double standard that these clowns have. I shouldn’t be surprised though. The Yankees and Dodgers can go out and spend upwards of $200,000,000 on players, but the only semblance of a salary cap MLB will institute is attached to the draft because those big bad mega-spending Pirates had to blow the whole thing up with a $5 million bonus to Josh Bell. But, I digress. How on earth do they suspend Utley but let Chris Coghlan keep playing? I hope Neal Huntington and Frank Coonely give the commish’s office an earful on this. Coghlan’s slide was bushleague. So was Utley’s. MLB’s double standard is disgusting. Apparently, a player’s health is only worthy of protection based on the jersey he wears.
I’m about ready to kick MLB to the curb, and say as they’re leaving, “Don’t let the door hit ya where the Good Lord split ya!”
Coghlan didn’t play in the wild card game.
He’s saying (1) the slides were similar (they were … I’ve been posting pics to my Cub friends that think Utley’s slide was the worst thing since Pete Rose), and (2) one was suspendable, the other was not.
Granted there are differences (1) more people saw the utley-tejada slide, (2) the game was more important, and (3) tejada went flying head over heels.
Coughlan’s slide was every bit as bad, and even worse, because Kang was 6 feet from the bag on the RF side exactly where he’s supposed to be. Tejada had his back to 1B because he had to stretch for the throw coming the the SS and the direction of LF.
If Utley was suspended for an illegal slide, does that mean Collins screwed up by not protesting the game and citing the rule right away?
No, the umpires told Collins he couldn’t protest a judgment call. The only protest that’s been accepted in the last 10 years was against the Cubs for failing to get the tarp on the field, benefiting them by creating a rainout when they were behind.
Trade a one game suspension (or two game suspension depending on the appeal process) for winning a playoff game and getting the other team’s starting shortstop out for a minimum of two games. Advantage Dodgers and Utley.
Mets can throw at Utley all they want if he even plays. I’m sure they’d rather have won game two, and had their short stop going forward.
A utility player for this Dodger team changed the whole series in their favor…
So apparently tackling players brought about the desired outcome…
Chase Utley, Chris Coughlan, Scott Cousins …
Yes, it’s usually a lesser talented guy injuring a much, more talented guy.
Thus, (part of) the need for the rule change.
The NFL made similar rule changes to protect their highly talented offensive lineman, wide receivers, and quarterbacks, because everyone realizes that offense sucks with too many backups in key positions.
The goal isn’t to pussify a sport. The goal is to do what you reasonably can to keep the highest quality of talent on the field … because that has maximal entertainment value (i.e., highest quality of play).
The situation that always seemed weird to me is that you can take out the middle infielder or truck the catcher, even if they aren’t standing on the base … but no runner can use his hands to slap the ball out of a defender’s glove. Why not? Runners aren’t allowed to throw their hands up and knock the throw down.
There are so many more ways a runner could interfere with a defender (and many of them take a high degree of skill) that are prohibited, yet “tripping/tackling” them is not. It makes no sense on any level.