Let’s Try to Solve a Mystery
In his latest trade rumblings column, Ken Rosenthal has a pretty fun story.
Here is an example of a trade that recently was discussed but never got close, and would have amounted to a bombshell if it had come to fruition.
The scenario, according to major-league sources, unfolded like this:
The Cubs tried to acquire left-hander Drew Pomeranz before the Padres sent him to the Red Sox for Class-A right-hander Anderson Espinoza. Simple enough.
The Cubs’ plan, though, wasn’t to keep Pomeranz, who is under club control through 2018. No, the Cubs wanted to spin Pomeranz for a starter who is under even longer team control.
I could not determine the identity of that starter — it was a pitcher whose “name is not out there (publicly), and probably is not going anywhere now,” one source said.
In any case, the Cubs balked at the Padres’ request of infielder Javier Baez for Pomeranz, believing it too high a price. The second part of the deal — the spinning of Pomeranz for the unidentified starter — would not necessarily have worked, either.
This is an intriguing idea for all kinds of reasons. For one, what do the Cubs need with another starting pitcher? Their rotation is already pretty excellent, so making a complicated three-way trade to either acquire a #6 starter or bump Jason Hammel from the rotation while he’s running a 3.34 ERA would be a bit weird. They could use some rotation depth in case of injury, but if you’re acquiring Pomeranz — potentially the most valuable starting pitcher to be moved this month — because you want to flip him for someone even more valuable, that guy has to be pretty good, right? You’re probably not going to pay the price for Pomeranz, only to ship him off for some guy you’d stash in Triple-A, if you’re a win-now contender like the Cubs. At least, I wouldn’t think so.
Of course, it’s not entirely unheard of. The win-now Dodgers inserted themselves into the Todd Frazier trade, getting a package of prospects they liked from Chicago more than the ones they sent to Cincinnati, rather than just keeping Frazier for themselves. Maybe the Cubs knew that some other team hunting for Pomeranz was willing to part with a guy they liked for the future, and they thought this was their best chance to get a young controllable starter from a team that they don’t match up well with in trade. And perhaps they’d think about using that starter as a reliever down the stretch, strengthening a bullpen that could use an upgrade, with the idea of moving him back to the rotation next year.
So, just for the fun of it, let’s try to figure out who this mystery pitcher might be.
To find the mystery pitcher, we have to figure out which team would want to trade for Drew Pomeranz this month, has a young controllable pitcher that would be worth more than Pomeranz to the Cubs, but also wouldn’t want to just keep that young pitcher for themselves. For that series of conclusions to make any sense, it would presumably have to be a win-now contender looking to upgrade for the stretch drive, and they’d likely have to look at the young pitcher as a guy who wasn’t capable of giving them another 15 starts this season, either because he’s not good enough or because he might have an innings-limit issue. So let’s run through some candidates.
The Dodgers could potentially be a fit on the surface; this is the kind of weird move they’d be involved in, and with nearly their entire rotation sidelined with injuries, I could see them being interested in Pomeranz. And maybe the Padres wouldn’t want to trade with the Dodgers directly, given that they’re division rivals, so the Cubs thought they could insert themselves in the deal as a go-between. On that front, they check the necessary boxes.
But what young pitcher would the Dodgers offer to the Cubs that Chicago would value more than Pomeranz, that Los Angeles would also give up for Pomeranz? I think we can reasonably assume Julio Urias wasn’t the guy, as A.J. Preller would have stood on his head for a week if he had a chance to acquire Urias.
That would leave Jose De Leon as the next best option, and he does seemingly fit the bill; he’s probably roughly as valuable as Pomeranz given his current prospect status and proximity to the majors, and yet the Dodgers haven’t seen fit to call him up to the big leagues even with all their pitching injuries, as he’s battled arm problems of his own, and spent a good chunk of the first half on the minor league DL. He would make sense as a guy the Cubs could immediately promote to help pitch in middle relief for the rest of this season, and then they could work on building up his innings totals the next couple of years, potentially setting him up as a spot-starter next year and a full-time starter in 2018, when Arrieta, Lackey, and Hammel all become free agents.
And even beyond his long-term upside, it’s worth noting that the projections think De Leon could be a standout reliever in the big leagues right now. Steamer’s rest-of-season forecast projects him for a 3.20 FIP, better than every Cubs reliever not named Rondon or Strop. ZIPS liked him enough pre-season to project him for +1.5 WAR in 100 innings as a starter, projecting him as nearly a +3 WAR pitcher even before he struck out 37% of the batters he faced in Triple-A this year. This is a guy who might very well come up and go all Dellin Betances on the National League, if put in the bullpen for the rest of 2016.
Of course, that’s also why the Dodgers might not have been willing to swap De Leon for Pomeranz; after all, it’s not like they’d be getting a sure-thing health wise with the veteran lefty, so if you’re betting on talent and rolling the dice with health and workload, why not just promote De Leon yourself? And the Dodgers have been reluctant to trade younger players for older ones, even in pennant races, so the Cubs hatching a plan that required Andrew Friedman to trade a high quality prospect who appears big league ready, even in exchange for Pomeranz, might have been doomed from the start.
So, let’s see if there’s any other options out there, maybe on teams that don’t covet their young players so heavily.
The Blue Jays are known to be looking for pitching, but the only starters who fit the bill in their organization are Marcus Stroman and Aaron Sanchez, and let’s be real, Pomeranz wasn’t bringing back either of those guys.
The White Sox could sort of be a fit if they were still invested in going for it over the next few years, but the only guy they have who fits the bill is Carlos Rodon. Yeah, Pomeranz might be better than Rodon now, but how much better, realistically? Half a win over the rest of the season, maybe? A full win, if you’re really high on Pomeranz’s breakout? If the White Sox hadn’t fallen apart the last few months, maybe I could see them doing something like that, but they’re in 10th place in the AL at this point, so now would seemingly be a weird time to make a move like this.
The Mariners, with a guy like James Paxton? Ditto everything I just said about the White Sox, though it’s not hard to imagine that the Cubs would find it an intriguing idea to put Paxton and his new-found 100 mph fastball in the bullpen for the rest of the year.
The Pirates, with Jameson Taillon playing a similar role as De Leon? I guess maybe I could squint and see it, if they didn’t trust Taillon to stay healthy the rest of the year, but would the Pirates really want to give up one of their coveted young arms to marginally increase their chance of landing in the wild card game, potetnially going up against a Clayton Kershaw or Jose Fernandez as the reward? I have a tough time buying that.
The Orioles could certainly use Pomeranz, but besides Kevin Gausman, I don’t know what they could offer that the Cubs would value enough to get involved in such a deal, and I think the Orioles are smart enough to realize they would have needed to add Pomeranz to Gausman, not exchange one for the other. Dylan Bundy’s still got a little bit of trade value left, but hard to imagine the Cubs would go to this kind of trouble to acquire him at this point.
None of those options really fit, at least from my perspective. And while there are other young pitchers the Cubs could feasibly want — Josh Hader is another hard-throwing lefty who they would probably like to stick in their bullpen tomorrow — many of them are on teams that wouldn’t be logical fits as Pomeranz buyers.
So, in the end, I’m sticking with my initial guess. Based on the information Rosenthal’s source gave him, I’m going to wildly speculate that the Cubs were trying to get Jose De Leon from the Dodgers. The sad thing is we’ll probably never know, unless Rosenthal’s source wants to swing the comments and bear his soul. What do you think, anonymous tipster; want to satisfy our curiosity at the expense of your job? It would only be a slightly weirder decision than the Cubs engineering a three-way trade to land a prospect mid-season.
Dave is the Managing Editor of FanGraphs.
Sarah McLaughlin plays…
Maybe the Mets, who have said they are looking for a replacement starting pitcher for this season, would have given up Wheeler for Pomeranz? The Cubs would figure they might be able to give Wheeler some more patience on his recovery and use him out of the bullpen this year, while the Mets get the immediate starter they need. Just a thought…
I thought about one of our pitchers but I’m not sure Wheeler has many more years of control than Pomeranz, I think at most he has one more year of control than Pomeranz does?
I think it’s more likely to be someone in triple A or someone with only 1-2 years of service time with an injury that’ll have them out for a while so they wouldn’t be an option for the team now. Really it could be nearly any elite triple A starter on a team that needs pitching but that isn’t ready to produce now. Maybe Glasnow instead of Taillon?
Wheeler was my initial thought as well. I doubt the Cubs would have targeted him because of his struggles in returning from TJ surgery. He’s too much of an unknown at this point. But that’s the type of player I can envision – someone who’s recovering from an injury and might be a better option than Pomeranz in future years, but won’t contribute as much this year. And with Harvey down, and Matz potentially to follow him, the Mets can use another starter.
Bundy. They probably see him under using his cutter like Arrieta was in Baltimore, and are drooling at a chance to let their pitching coaches get their hands on him.
KLaw says Bundy is a shell of himself… the stuff isn’t there anymore.
I would take what Keith Law says about the O’s with a pinch of salt.
I wouldn’t…
Bundy isnt throwing his cutter/slider this year because it was tweaking his arm in the AFL.
The sad thing is, we may never know the whole truth…
Maybe they were planning to package Pomeranz with a prospect for a better SP? Gray/Archer/?
Rosenthal said it’s not a guy whose name has been out there as a trade target, so Archer’s out.
That would eliminate Gray also.
Archer isn’t a trade target, though. He had early season struggles (in that division and outside of it), and TB started getting phone calls checking in on management’s confidence in Archer moving forward.
Chris Archer sounds like a great piece to the puzzle. He still doesn’t drop his changeup as well, and since the pitch is useless on righties, he gets killed if they come to the plate looking at one pitch.
Archer was in the Cubs organization, and I can see them making him a “Betances”-type guy until he builds his 3rd pitch and then they get a guy long-term who has shown he can shut any team down when he’s on.
His FB/HR rate will clearly decline playing in NL Central, and Epstein is a fanatic for AL East pitchers with great stuff that can’t be consistent with either bad defenses or loaded offenses year after year. Their entire staff are pitchers who have played in the AL East.
Archer would be worth a Pomeranz and possibly Baez, and I think that would’ve worked for both sides. Remember, the Rays wanted to be overwhelmed with offers from Archer. It was the blog hype that made the calls for him more legit than Rays actually trying to put him on the market.
Don’t sleep on Epstein. And don’t be surprised if they missed this opportunity, but will build a better case in the off-season when Baez and LaStella build their resumes and possibly can be moved in the off-season.
My only other guess would be Alex Cobb, but the jury is out on if he can sustain 140 IP + per season, and doesn’t have that crazy stuff to come out of the bullpen, unless they think he can Koji his opponents since he probably has one of the best change-ups in the game.
Yeah, but Cobb’s control is up after next season, right? He’s shorter term than Pomeranz, not longer. There were rumors in the offseason connecting the Cubs to Cobb, IIRC.
The first part of this was my initial thought. Jose Quintana?
I think the thing to remember is that the Cubs balked at trading Baez. Baez is neat and all, but I’d trade him in a heartbeat for Quintana… it’s gotta be a lesser guy.
They balked at trading Baez for Pomeranz, not trading Baez for anyone. If it was Quintana the White Sox may have required Baez in that deal, so they couldn’t move him for Pomeranz.
You’re right 🙂 my mistake
If you introduce Quintana then the Cubs have to add another piece. No way the White Sox give up 4+ years of control of a top-10 starting pitcher being paid like a league average starter for a guy who’s never thrown this many innings in his career, under less control. The Cubs would have to add another piece, and that opens up the conversation to any SP in baseball.
Yes, that is exactly what was proposed as a possibility. Nobody thinks Pomeranz alone gets Quintana; that would be crazy.
Rick Hahn has not blown me away with his management, but he is not dumb enough to trade 3+ years of Jose Quintana for 3 months of Drew Pomerantz. They are the same age and Quintana is better right now. Unless he gets much more, the team is worse now and obviously worse in the future.
Are we so sure Pomeranz (or Pomeranz+low level prospect) wouldn’t bring back Stroman? I’d rather have Stroman long term, but the Blue Jays would almost certainly imagine themselves as better this year with Pomeranz. But Stroman’s peripherals seem to be somewhat better than his ERA, and maybe the Cubs think Stroman’s K rate would climb substantially with a move to the NL.
With the Jays’ window being really small (this year only?), I could see it as a possibility, actually.
Couple problems with this. First of all, the Jays wouldn’t deal Stro for Pomeranz. Second of all, Stro’s season basically breaks down into 3 sections. The first 8 starts, awesome. The next 7-8, awful (partly facing Balt/Bos so often, but mostly a function of his command being awful and his breaking stuff being sub par), and his third stretch, where his command and breaking stuff was better. His last start in Oakland wasn’t very good, but before that he was showing significant improvement.
Stro has also decided he wants to do efficiency over K’s, which is why the Ks have dropped a bit.
The Jays window also isn’t just limited to this year. They’re losing several big pieces, but depending on who they sign to replace the bullpen, LF/1B/DH, they could remain quite strong heading into next season.
Probably Kershaw:
– a starter who is under even longer team control – check
– a pitcher whose name is not out there – check
– and probably is not going anywhere now – check
Kershaw has a clause in his contract that voids it if he’s traded. So he wouldn’t be under control.
Well not void it but it allows him to hit FA at the end of whatever season he’s traded in.
Nonetheless, he IS under team control. Whether he would be under team control after a trade is another question.
Gina is right. It’s not Kershaw.
I think it’s pretty obvious that the comment was made in jest.
*I hope
Yeah, if the deal was Baez for Kershaw, even with the contract clause… pretty sure it’s not the Cubs turning that one down.
No team is going anywhere near the Kershaw contract. He is injured and back injuries can be career ending. Then there is the clause that lets Kershaw opt-out if traded. Basically if he is traded and healthy, he opts out. If he is still injured the acquiring team in on the hook 35 MM a season through 2020.
No team is going to give away significant assets, but if he were put on waivers, the worst team in the NL that actually thinks it has a shot would claim him (probably the Pirates) and would trade something to make the deal go through. It is highly, highly unlikely that Kershaw has some career ending injury. He’ll likely be back this year at some point, and a team like the Pirates would love that. If they could sneak into the wild card, it would be huge to have Kershaw.
I feel like this is a running theme like in “House” when Hugh Laurie would always say “it’s not Lupus.” It’s never Lupus, and it is never Kershaw, but somehow they always get brought up.
Anderson Espinoza? He is under control for a lot longer, and he definitely isn’t going anywhere now.
This is what I was thinking. Boston obviously wanted to add pieces to help now, and the Cubs probably did not want to give any Major League ready players from their roster.
There was precedent for the Padres foolishly agreeing to a middleman trade when they acquired Wil Myers, so maybe the Cubs thought they could play the Nationals’ role and run away with Espinoza?
No, he’s not close enough to the big leagues for that and I’ve got to think they would at least think about giving Baez for him. I was think more along the lines of that kid that’s been hitting 105 for one of their minor league teams
Uh, the Rays are the ones who were the foolish middlemen in that trade.
The Padres came out of it with the best player.
The Nationals got the second and third best players.
And the Rays got… the chance to hope that Jake Bauer isn’t Daric Barton.
I’m glad you tried to tackle this, I was racking my brain trying to figure this out when I saw the Rosenthal piece and coming up empty. The idea of adding Taillon, even if it were at the cost of Baez, is pretty mouth watering, and Baez would be a nice upgrade over Harrison at 2B for them, but I agree it’s hard to see them breaking up their young core rotation just as Taillon and Glasnow are ascending into the big leagues.
Daniel Norris? Tigers could definitely use Pom, and he’s got some pedigree and the team control. But not sure he’s proven himself at the big league level enough yet to be a good return for Pomeranz, nor does his stuff seem like it is particularly suited to temporary bullpen duty. Only other Tiger option is Fulmer, but I’m thinking he’s made himself a bit too valuable at this point.
Ken didn’t necessarily say it was a young guy with more team control than Pomeranz. So what about Greinke? He’s team-controlled for longer, and the way the D-backs are going they probably wouldn’t mind getting out from under that contract in exchange for cheap guys with upside. The Cubs could almost certainly afford it and in their position they’d probably like the track record of Greinke over the risk of Pomeranz. This would also avoid the messy trading-with-division-rivals situation between the Padres and D-backs.
While I’d guess they’d like a redo on Greinke given their situation, that doesn’t mean he has trade value. They were the highest bidder after all so I wouldn’t think it would take much of anything to take him off their hands unless they plan to eat a lot of the contract which would be pretty surprising given recent comments about money from AZ.
Wow, that was such a clickbaity KR column. And this kind of tags along off of it. Meh.
So you’d rather we not talk about it at all? Or talk about it, but not link back to the source? Or what, exactly?
Joser, Joser, you misunderstand. Sometimes people just like to hear themselves complain; they’re not interested in being “constructive” or “helpful”. What a quaint notion.
(You’ll notice, too, that both KR and Dave forced him to read their columns! And PAY for the privilege of doing so! Oh…wait, what? They didn’t do either of those things? Dammit…)
Wait, a deal got discussed and passed in favor of Pom-Espinoza straight up? What is newsworthy about that? Why would anyone think the Pads didn’t field other offers?
Sorry, this just isn’t interesting.
That was fun! Maybe we can arrange a Mystery Dinner Theater version? Something like “Who Stole Jason Heyward’s Offense?” (Answer: it was a vengeful Cardinals staff led by master thief Christopher Correa, who gave it to Jeremy Hazelbaker but told him he had to use all of it by the end of April or the feds would notice something was up)
Oof.
You know, I wouldn’t put it past the Twins to want to trade Berrios for Pomeranz… I mean, the kid has a 10.20 ERA! He’s not clutch-y!
Just throwing it out there: Joe Ross? He’s been hurt, and if the Nationals think it could be serious…?
I don’t know why the Cubs couldn’t have added to Pomeranz to get something bigger. If you want Jose Fernandez with the Marlins in the hunt, probably need to give them an all-star to quell the backlash.
I do think it could be Espinosa.
Maybe that’s why they wouldn’t part with Baez – he could have been part of a package for something bigger.
Say, Pomeranz, Baez, and Soler for Sale (who is controllable until 2019 thanks to two club options).
I don’t think that gets it done for Sale or Quintana. I think it would be more like:
Sale for Pomeranz, Baez, Jimenez, and some lower level pitching.
ETA: I’m a Cubs fan and would be over the moon if they could have swung the deal you proposed.
True, those two are worth a ton.
What about Sale for Pomeranz, Baez, and Kyle Hendricks? As I think about it, the White Sox are pretty well committed to the near-term, and have a lot of holes to fill, including the back of their rotation. Is it worth this much for the Cubs to upgrade Hendricks to an ace starter?
If the White Sox were going to trade Sale or Quintana the I’m pretty sure they are softening on winning in the near term. Those guys are really good, not old, and really affordable so I imagine the White Sox would have to get some pretty good present value plus some long term value and a couple lottery tickets to even consider moving either.
As a Cubs fan I would be even more super excited to get Sale or Quintana for the players you proposed in this deal than the one before.
The Cubs weren’t looking to make a win-now move, or they would just keep Pomeranz over Hammel if they got him. Replacing Hendricks with Sale increases the quality of their staff but doesn’t fill any of the long-term holes they are aiming to solve, so I can’t see them making that move at all. In fact, it opens a rotation hole a year earlier.
Well…. sure, replacing Hendricks with Sale would have opened a rotation hole a year earlier, but Sale is a lot better than Hendricks. It would vastly improve the Cubs rotation now and strengthen it for 2018 and beyond, when Arrieta may leave and Lester will be in decline.
I think this is along the right lines of thinking – Pomeranz plus one or more high value young players for a monster like Sale, Fernandez, DeGrom or Kluber. Not sure that Baez is who they were thinking of packaging with him, but it would take a pitcher along the lines of one of those guys to pry Baez, Russell, Schwarber or Contreras from the team. And I wouldn’t see the other team trading one of those pitchers unless they were getting a massive MLB-ready talent haul back.
It would likely be Russell OR two of Baez/Schwarber/Contreras, and maybe more.
I can’t envision the White Sox selling Chris Sale for anything less than a monstrous return.
I have been wondering if the Cubs would be willing to move Russell for an elite (or borderline elite), controllable starter. The gap between Russell and Baez won’t be nearly as big as the gap between a Sale and a Hammel in the rotation. (This would also explain why they were reluctant to move Baez for Pomeranz)
If it’s the White Sox, I’d assume it’s Sale (controlled through 2019) or Quintana (controlled through 2020) over Rodon.
Cubs then flip Pomeranz and more to the Sox for Sale or Quintana.
Shields is also under control through 2019.
I was thinking Sale too. The article didn’t specify the Cubs were going try to trade *just* Pomeranz, right?
How about Trevor Bauer?
Cleveland’s staff is heavily righty and he’s under team control til ’21.
There are better ways to address the lefty balance but they are in a penant race…
But is anyone buying Bauer as a clearly better alternative to just keeping Pomeranz?
Righty-lefty. NL VS AL. Bauer is younger, was drafted higher because of #1 upside, might still get there.
If the Cubs didn’t buy into Pomerantz’ cutter and Cleveland did…
In Cleveland he is 4-5 in the pecking order but that doesn’t mean he can’t be a 1-2 before he hits free agency in 2021. The stuff is there and the control is coming along.
All this is just specualtion, of course.
Gerrit Cole? He’s only got one more year of team control than Pomeranz though.
I think musgrove or paulino seem equally as viable as De Leon. Astros are openly after SPs and aren’t scared to deal attractive young names (see: velasquez, villar, etc) I think the dodgers can resort to waiver deadline and pay $$ to fill holes.
When relying on an anonymous source, whose credibility has not been documented, whose access is only vaguely hinted at (i.e. “major league source”), and who apparently has not been corroborated by a second source, you run the risk that your story is completely untrue.
Sports reporting has shifted to rumors and speculation. Rosenthal is a good sports reporter, but this story of his would never have hit the press is decades past.
It’s extremely irritating the sheer number of “this almost happened” stories coming out nowadays. Hearing about how the Yankees almost traded Bernie Williams waaaaaay after the fact? Fun and almost interesting as a story. This? Meh and tedious
Marcus Stroman, duh
Matt Shoemaker? He is under team control through 2020 and the Angels would want MLB ready pitching in return.
I’d rather keep Pomeranz in that case
I’m not disagreeing with you but if team control is what you are after Shoemaker fits the bill and the Angels are looking to improve their 2017 rotation. Shoemaker has been very good since he stopped being very bad.
I’d think control was just part of the equation and talent matters. Shoemaker’s had a nice run with a new pitch, but it hard to buy into that kind of talent for a trade.
I say – Martin Perez from the Rangers.. Perez is one of those guys who feels like he should be better than he is so Cubs probably think being in NL would make him better with the extra year of control.. Texas would be thinking of getting the slightly better guy now who was used to pitching in the AL West
I have to say that in the early part of the article as you were breaking down the trade and what it implied, the first team that leaped to my mind was the Blue Jays. Would the Cubs have considered packaging Pomeranz+ to get Stroman? Or were they perhaps eyeing another pitcher in the org? I have no idea who that could be however.
It’s interesting to see Greinke’s name mentioned in the comments here because of his large contract. The first thought I had when I saw this rumor was Tanaka. The Cubs Regime has a history with Cashman, and Tanaka meets all the requirements (signed through 2021, not publicly mentioned). If the Cubs could – and are willing to – take on money, I think this would make sense for a few of reasons:
1) Cubs were linked to him when he came over, as they were the second place bidders on him
2) Tanaka undoubtedly upgrades their rotation
If the Yankees are set on going through a full rebuild this may make sense for them. They would be able to shed Tanaka’s contract (Owed $88 mil over next 4 years) and continue to save for the monster 2018 free agency class. They would also most likely be able to flip Pomeranz for prospects.
Maybe this is a dumb theory, but who knows…
If they are going for a full rebuild, which is very unlike the Yankees, acquiring Pomeranz makes no sense. You don’t buy high on a guy just to trade him for prospects later.
I definitely thought of Tanaka too, but he has a post-2017 opt out. I do think he’s an interesting fit for the Cubs, who are about ready to become more of an international presence than they have been.
Wacha, Michael Fulmer, Yordano Ventura, Jeff Hoffman, Tanner Roark, Alex Wood.
Do I think it’s any of those? No, not really. But they all have more control than Pomeranz and I could see Chicago wanting them.
* “and I think the Orioles are smart enough to realize they would have needed to add Pomeranz to Gausman, not trade another super-talented but struggling young starter to the Cubs to watch him become an ace after leaving Baltimore.”
Fixed.
“it was a pitcher whose “name is not out there (publicly), and probably is not going anywhere now,” one source said.
Since the mystery pitcher is “probably not going anywhere now”, that means he is either on a team that has unexpectedly recently competitive or fallen out of contention. He could have also recently gotten injured or the rest of his rotation got injured and he is now a critical piece.
To me, that narrows down the list to Luis Severino, Zack Wheeler and Taijuan Walker.
My gut says the target would’ve been Walker. Athletic delivery that needs a tweak or two to unlock ‘uge potential, but inconsistent track record to make a Baez for Walker trade seem too steep. Baez would be a good fit in Seattle as he could play SS rather than Ketel Marte and Drew Jackson is years away.
Walker is a very interesting idea. You do have to keep in mind that Baez was rumored to be asked for by the Padres, so he’d end up in SD and Pomeranz in Seattle. I could see Seattle having interest in that move to help make a push for the postseason – Walker is so talented but not performing that well and they probably have a more limited window than fits his longer-term value. Moving for Pomeranz now to push with the rather old group they have right now and then rebuilding makes some sense.
And the Cubs could be loath to give up Baez, who is performing right now and actually controlled for a year longer than Walker, for his upside. Especially since the organization clearly prioritizes position players.
Severino was my thought, too. Yankee brass above Cashman’s head was deluding itself into the idea that they could make a run, and Pomeranz certainly would upgrade the rotation while still being cheap and not a short-term rental. The Cubs could bring up Severino and probably have him be effective out of the bullpen down the stretch while still trying to fix his issues and work him into the rotation in the 4-5 years after this they’d still have him under control.
Maybe Montgomery was the fall back?
My guess is Cubs trade Pomeranz + parts (Vogelbach + others) to Rays for one of Odorizzi/Matt Moore or Drew Smyly. My guess: Odorizzi.
But those guys names have all been out there.
Odorizzi is controlled one year longer than Pomeranz but is much, much worse. That trade seems like a total mismatch. Could you imagine Odorizzi fetching Espinoza? No. Same scenario with Moore. Smyly is not controlled longer than Pomeranz and is performing so much worse, that’s another illogical trade.
Maybe a “blocked” AAA starter like the Indian’s Mike Clevinger? I could see CLE feeling Pomeranz helps them more now.
Thought of that one too, I like Clevinger
We will never know!
My first thought after reading this was Carson Fulmer. My second thought was that that was wrong because the inferences being drawn from the KR article are likely wrong.
To me, the most telling word in the KR article is “bombshell.” Would any of the names mentioned in the above article constitute a “bombshell” trade? Hader? Bundy? De Leon? Even for baseball nerds like us, I don’t think a Pomeranz for Bundy or Hader deal is a “bombshell.”
To me, a “bombshell” trade has to move the needle, so it requires the inclusion of an established, top of the rotation arm. The KR article mentions that the Cubs would acquire a pitcher under team control longer than Pomeranz. I’m not sure why it necessarily follows that said pitcher is younger and in the pre-arbitration seasons. To me, it would make more sense for it to be an established #1 starter under team control via free agent contract or contract extension.
The Cubs were obviously engaged in these trade talks prior to Arrieta’s first start after the All Star break. As anyone who owns Arrieta in fantasy baseball knows, he’s been mediocre at best over the last few weeks. To me, it makes more sense for the Cubs to be trying to improve the top of their rotation, not the back end and not the future rotation. It would seem, especially given his limited track record, reasonable for the Cubs to have concerns about Arrieta’s struggles and see how vulnerable they would be if he didn’t bounce back.
If they added a stud to the top of the rotation, then whoever falls out of the bottom of the rotation could then be traded for a reliever in a follow-up deal. They would also have added insurance for Arrieta and improved their chances in the World Series this season.
To me, the “mystery pitcher” is more likely to be an established top of the rotation arm for a second tier team. A team not ready to punt the 2016 season and not in need of a rebuild.
I wonder if the “mystery pitcher” is Felix Hernandez. He’s under control longer than Pomeranz. He’s obviously not what he was a few years ago and he’s battled injury this year, but it seems a safe bet that he’s got a few strong years left in him, especially if he gets away from the DH, gets a lot of run support, and pitches in front of a strong defense on the North Side. Arrieta, Lester, and King Felix is an improved top 3 for the postseason.
On the Mariners side, they could get out from under the back end of the Felix contract, which was handed out by the previous regime. Jerry DiPoto’s regime doesn’t really have anything invested in Felix. They aren’t burdened by the past and would only view Felix from the perspective of what he could provide in the present and future. If they could get Pomeranz and a good prospect/Javy Baez, then maybe that’s a deal they cut. It helps them get younger, more athletic, more explosive, and gives them a boost for the future without representing a significant step back in the present.
If it’s not King Felix, then I would still hazard a guess that it was a pitcher like him, rather than a young pitcher in his 0-2 years of service time. The King moves the needle in ways the younger guys do not. The King is a “bombshell” acquisition.
Anyway, my $.02.
I could think of… Raisel Iglesies?
New guess: Eduardo Rodriguez