Looking for the Next Paul Goldschmidt
Paul Goldschmidt is one of the very best hitters on the planet. Through the All-Star break, the Diamondbacks star first baseman wields a batting line of .340/.455/.610, giving him a 183 wRC+ — the fourth-highest such mark among qualified hitters. He was one of the game’s best hitters last year, too. And also the year before that. In his four full seasons in the league, he’s posted wRC+s of 124, 156, 155 and 183. In terms of WAR, he’s been the fifth-best player in baseball since 2013.
Goldy raked in the minors, as well. Before the D-Backs called him up for the stretch run in 2011, he hit an absurd .306/.435/.626 in Double-A. In his two previous minor-league seasons, he hit a similarly absurd .321/.392/.617. From 2009 to 2011, Mr. Goldschmidt ranked third, first and first, respectively, in his leagues by wRC+.
Yet, despite his minor-league exploits, Goldschmidt was never really thought to be much of a prospect. Best I can tell, literally nobody included him in a single top-100 list. Baseball America ranked him 13th and 11th in the Diamondbacks organization the two years he was eligible. John Sickels had him in the 21-30 bucket and then 9th on his organizational list. Baseball Prospectus had him unranked and then 10th. Here at FanGraphs, Marc Hulet had him unranked and 11th. Heading into 2011, the year he broke into the majors leagues, he ranked behind the likes of Bobby Borchering and Keon Broxton.
So, how, exactly, did Goldschmidt manage to exceed expectations? Part of it had to do with his physical conditioning, on which he reportedly worked very hard. It seems as though a more athletic physique has enabled him to be a better defender and baserunner than he was in his days as a prospect. Following the 2010 season, Kevin Goldstein of Baseball Prospectus described Goldschmidt as “a 30 runner (on the 20-80 scouting scale) with very limited range.” That doesn’t really sound like the Goldschmidt we’ve come to know. In reality, Goldschmidt’s been at least average at first base, and has also been an asset on the base paths. But even if we set aside the defense and baserunning aspects of his game, Goldschmidt’s developed into one of the most feared hitters on the planet. His bat alone has allowed him to blow past all expectations set for him when he was a C-list prospect in the Diamondbacks system.
Looking back at Goldschmidt’s minor-league days, there was plenty to like about his stat line. Most impressive of all was his power. Goldschmidt posted ISOs of .303, .291 and .320 in Rookie ball, High-A and Double-A, respectively, which were each tops in his league. He led his league in home runs in one of those years, and tied for the league lead in the other two, including his partial year in Double-A.
Goldschmidt complemented his crazy power with ample walks. Overall, he walked in 13% of his minor-league plate appearances, including a remarkable 18% clip in Double-A, right before he was called up to the majors for good. Like a true three-outcome slugger, he paired his power and walks with strikeout rates north of 20%. However, given his power and patience, Goldschmidt’s lack of contact shouldn’t have been that big of a red flag. As always, you take the good with the bad.
Some may have overlooked Goldschmidt due to his age relative to his level. While he made a mockery of Rookie ball in his draft year, he did so as a 21-year-old coming out of college. Most college bats worth their salt skip over Rookie ball, and open their careers in one of the of A-Ball levels. Realizing how advanced Goldschmidt was at the plate, the Diamondbacks pushed him to High-A the following year. But, even then, he wasn’t particularly young for his level as a 22-year-old.
Goldy hit about as well as anybody in his two-plus years in the minor leagues. If KATOH was around back when Goldy was a prospect, it would have projected him for a respectable 3.6 WAR (through age 28) after his age-22 season in High-A and an elite 15.2 WAR following his gaudy Double-A season. Even after considering his strikeout rate and accounting for his age relative to his level, his stats should have been enough to turn a few more heads than they did. No one could have foreseen that he’d be a perennial MVP candidate, but he didn’t exactly come out of nowhere, either.
Yet, few seemed to pay him much attention. I can’t help but wonder if there’s something we can learn from Goldschmidt’s case. Perhaps players who fit his profile — power hitters with a good amount of strikeouts who aren’t particularly young for their level — are overlooked more often than they should be.
Looking at his top historical comps by way of some Mahalanobis Distance calculations, it seems as though other Paul Goldschmidts have also turned out pretty well. Here are the top comps using his High-A numbers…
| Rank | Mah Dist | Player | PA thru 28 | WAR thru 28 |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | 1.0 | Delwyn Young | 779 | 0.2 |
| 2 | 1.7 | Johermyn Chavez* | 0 | 0.0 |
| 3 | 1.8 | Jim Betzsold | 0 | 0.0 |
| 4 | 1.9 | Jose Leon | 221 | 0.0 |
| 5 | 1.9 | Kyle Jensen* | 0 | 0.0 |
| 6 | 1.9 | Brett Magnusson | 0 | 0.0 |
| 7 | 2.0 | Scott Morgan | 0 | 0.0 |
| 8 | 2.1 | Tim Graham | 0 | 0.0 |
| 9 | 2.1 | Sean Rodriguez | 1,594 | 6.2 |
| 10 | 2.1 | Joe Gaetti | 0 | 0.0 |
| 11 | 2.2 | Jeff Kent | 2,330 | 9.2 |
| 12 | 2.3 | Marty Cordova | 2,132 | 3.8 |
| 13 | 2.3 | Carlos Peguero* | 319 | 0.5 |
| 14 | 2.4 | Scott Schebler* | 3 | 0.1 |
| 15 | 2.4 | Bryan Baar | 0 | 0.0 |
| 16 | 2.4 | Brian Dopirak | 0 | 0.0 |
| 17 | 2.5 | Koby Clemens* | 0 | 0.0 |
| 18 | 2.5 | Brian Turner | 0 | 0.0 |
| 19 | 2.5 | Scott Van Slyke* | 586 | 4.6 |
| 20 | 2.5 | Chris Kirgan | 0 | 0.0 |
*Batters who have yet to play their age-28 season.
That’s not the most encouraging list of players, but there are some quality names in there, including Sean Rodriguez, Jeff Kent and Marty Cordova. Things get quite a bit more exciting, though, when you run this for his Double-A numbers. Check it out.
| Rank | Mah Dist | Player | PA thru 28 | WAR thru 28 |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | 2.1 | Mike Olt* | 314 | 0.0 |
| 2 | 2.6 | Adam Piatt | 588 | 0.6 |
| 3 | 2.9 | Carlos Santana | 2,761 | 14.7 |
| 4 | 3.0 | Troy Neel | 861 | 3.1 |
| 5 | 3.0 | Josh Willingham | 1,234 | 3.8 |
| 6 | 3.2 | Ben Broussard | 1,539 | 3.3 |
| 7 | 3.4 | Brandon Sing | 0.0 | 0.0 |
| 8 | 3.5 | Ben Grieve | 3,718 | 6.7 |
| 9 | 4.2 | Jon Knott | 37 | 0.0 |
| 10 | 4.2 | Justin Leone | 115 | 0.2 |
| 11 | 4.2 | Michael Cuddyer | 2,367 | 7.3 |
| 12 | 4.4 | Jeff Larish | 276 | 0.0 |
| 13 | 4.4 | Josh Phelps | 1,333 | 1.8 |
| 14 | 4.4 | Carlos Pena | 1,925 | 3.3 |
| 15 | 4.4 | Charles Johnson | 2,779 | 19.9 |
| 16 | 4.5 | Morgan Ensberg | 1,057 | 5.3 |
| 17 | 4.5 | Stanton Cameron | 0 | 0.0 |
| 18 | 4.8 | Lance Berkman | 3,248 | 27.8 |
| 19 | 4.9 | Phil Nevin | 1,289 | 2.1 |
| 20 | 4.9 | Marcus Thames | 399 | 0.7 |
*Batters who have yet to play their age-28 season.
Not all of those players became quality big leaguers, but an awful lot of them did. Santana, Grieve, Willingham, Cuddyer, Pena, Johnson, Ensberg, Berkman: that’s an awful lot of hits — certainly more than I usually get from these Mahalanobis comparisons.
Seeing how successful many these players were, it might be worth taking a stab at identifying future Paul Goldschmidts. Surely, there are players today who are putting up numbers that are comparable to what Goldschmidt or Jeff Kent or Carlos Santana did while at the same level. Using league-adjusted, regressed stats, along with age, I calculated the Mahalanobis Distance between Goldschmidt’s 2011 season in Double-A and all current Double-A players. Below, you’ll find a list of current players whose performances were nearest and dearest to Goldschmidt’s final season in the minors, ranked from most to least similar…
| Rank | Mah Dist | Name | Age | 2015 wRC+ |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | 2.8 | Miguel Sano | 22 | 158 |
| 2 | 3.5 | Kyle Schwarber | 22 | 189 |
| 3 | 5.0 | Anthony Garcia | 23 | 148 |
| 4 | 5.1 | Zach Borenstein | 24 | 178 |
| 5 | 6.5 | Trevor Story | 22 | 156 |
| 6 | 6.6 | Jabari Blash | 25 | 157 |
| 7 | 6.7 | Aaron Altherr | 24 | 146 |
| 8 | 6.7 | Drew Robinson | 23 | 127 |
| 9 | 6.8 | Greg Bird | 22 | 134 |
| 10 | 8.4 | Jacob Wilson | 24 | 116 |
I repeated this exercise using Goldschmidt’s 2010 season and all current High-A players, using Goldy’s penultimate minor league season.
| Rank | Mah Dist | Name | Age | 2015 wRC+ |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | 1.4 | Chase Mcdonald | 23 | 158 |
| 2 | 2.3 | Nelson Rodriguez | 21 | 142 |
| 3 | 2.7 | Sebastian Elizalde | 23 | 138 |
| 4 | 3.4 | Matt Dean | 22 | 117 |
| 5 | 3.4 | Jordan Patterson | 23 | 155 |
| 6 | 3.6 | Brett Phillips | 21 | 160 |
| 7 | 4.4 | JaCoby Jones | 23 | 118 |
| 8 | 4.5 | Lewis Brinson | 21 | 156 |
| 9 | 4.8 | J.D. Davis | 22 | 127 |
| 10 | 4.9 | Aaron Brown | 23 | 110 |
Some of these prospects are household names, like Miguel Sano and Kyle Schwarber. But most of the players who grace the tops of these lists are relatively obscure prospects. Although they’ve hit extremely well in the minors this year, guys like Anthony Garcia, Zach Borenstein, Chase Mcdonald and Nelson Rodriguez are barely on the prospect radar at all. I’d also like to call attention to Jabari Blash, whose name has to be at least double-plus.
This was a fun little project (for me, at least), and these names are interesting to look at. But I’ll be the first to admit that this was something of a flawed exercise. As good as Goldschmidt has become, he’s also just one data point who happened to blow past even the loftiest of expectations. There’s very little reason to think that any of the players listed above will come close to matching his success.
Nevertheless, I think it’s fair to say that prospects coming from Goldschmidt’s mold warrant a bit more attention than they’ve typically received in the past. Most of the players listed above are unlikely to be stars, but I think their offensive exploits make them worth keeping an eye on, at least. After all, one of the best players in baseball looked a lot like they did when he was their age.
Chris works in economic development by day, but spends most of his nights thinking about baseball. He writes for Pinstripe Pundits, FanGraphs and The Hardball Times. He's also on the twitter machine: @_chris_mitchell None of the views expressed in his articles reflect those of his daytime employer.
After reading the title, the first name that I thought was AJ Reed.
Same here.
Ditto for me. My guess is that he wasn’t included in the sample since his K% haven’t been over 20% in A+ or AA. I believe that was one of the sampling criteria. He’s at 19% in both A+ and AA. If he expanded the sample to include guys just under 20%, I imagine Reed would be near the top of the list.
He wasn’t too far off the top 10. Was lower on the comps list since his strikeouts and walks are both worse than Goldy’s were.
Triple Crown Watch (League Leader):
Goldschmidt .340 (.340) 21 (27) 72 (72)
Harper .337 (.340) 27 (27) 64 (72)
Trout .307 (.350) 27 (27) 56 (63)
LOLRBI
Whenever we finally get access to reliably accurate minor league strike zone data, we should be able to differentiate between prospects more easily. It looks like Goldschmidt’s strike out rate was more about working deep into counts whereas someone like Olt’s was compounded by well below average contact skills. Superficially they appear similar in power, walk, and strikeout rates but how they achieved their strikeout rates proved enormously important to their diverging paths as professionals.
I agree. The work I’ve done with the crappy minor league zone data that we do have suggests this is exactly the case.
Well, before worrying about that, how about we apply simple, accurate park adjustments to all minor league data?
Typo that bothers me.
5th paragraph, last sentence:
“He lead his league in home runs in one of those years, and tied for the league lead in the other two, including his partial year in Double-A.”
should read
“He led…”
same with Lead Zeppelin. gets me everytime.
Ditto.
It’s spelled Led Zeppelin
So your saying there’s a chance that Greg Bird is the next Goldy eh?? What do you see as a realistic ETA for regular playing time FOR him on the Yanks with a logjam of old corner infiielders/outfielders?
I suspect that Goldschmidt was overlooked soley because he wasn’t a high draft choice. If you aren’t taken until the 8th round, the perception is that you don’t have a lot of talent and have little chance of making the majors. Prospect evauators can be slow to overcome their bias against lower round draft picks.
Well that’s not the only one, but I agree with you that it was a major one. That applies more to hitters than pitchers, as middle and late round starters will absolutely get noticed if their stuff ticks up. Mr. Mitchell’s point regarding defensive limitations and a “bad body” are also huge (pun!) sticking points, as you have to be a pretty exceptional hitter to have value at first base, especially when there are questions about your defense even there.
Speaking of which, Dan Vogelbach might fit this bill. He has an enticing combination of power, patience, and contact skills, he just needs a different organization, preferably one in the American League.
He also needs to convert all of his fat into muscle over a single offseason, haha.
Nathaniel Dawson beat me to it – agree completely. There is a prevailing though that if you aren’t a high draft pick or aren’t highly coveted by scouts, you won’t amount to anything and all subsequent evaluations are slanted that way. “He can’t possibly make it because the scouts didn’t like him.” This quote from the article says it all: “Yet, despite his minor-league exploits, Goldschmidt was never really thought to be much of a prospect.” Conversely, there are players that get a free pass for way too long because scouts DID like them when they were amateurs (cough Dustin Ackley, cough).
People seem to have had much higher expectations for Dustin Ackley than was ever warranted. He’s actually turned out to be just about what you would expect from a #2 pick in the draft and a prospect that topped out at #11 on BA’s top-100 list. That so many people seem to see him as a bust or failure is really strange.
He certainly is a bust compared to his first half season in the majors. He went from walking well more than he struck out in the minors to where he now Ks almost 3x more than he walks, with a low walk rate.
Since 2000, the position players taken with second pick have almost all been better through age 27 than Ackley, who right now is below replacement level:
B.J. Upton, 19.1 WAR through age 27
Rickie Weeks, 12.7
Alex Gordon 11.4 (and he’s been even better since 27)
Mike Moustakas, close, 7.8 WAR to Ackley’s 7.2, but Moose is in his age 26 season, and has turned useful, Ackley hasn’t been above 2 WAR since 2011.
Pedro Alvarez, ok, Ackley has been slightly better by WAR, but that’s all from his first half season. And position adjustment. I think Alvarez will likely get more opportunity as a starter than Ackley, who has likely played himself into a utility role.
Buxton. Jury out but I imagine he’ll be better.
Bryant. Better.
A lot of this just depends on the draft year, of course. I don’t think Ackley was a bad choice given the options at the time.
Also, from what I’ve read the Angels had Trout number 2 on their draft board in 2009, even though they picked Grichuk ahead of Trout, which they could do since their were no intervening picks. Those were the picks they got from the Mets and Yankees. They had Strasburg 1. Not to pick on the Mariners. Ackley was thought to be a good pick at the time. And they got Seager in round 3.
The Yanks also had Trout at #2.
And yeah, the Angels picked Trout second to give them extra leverage in their negotiations.
Chris, something that’s long intrigued me is BABIP. Some guys, even though they never get the accolades in the minors routinely put up high BABIPs. In the low minors they’re easy to ignore, but as they hold up in A+, AA and beyond, they get tough to miss. Is there something we’re missing here? A guy like Jake Lamb, who will never be Goldy but could be a useful major league hitter, did the same, yet never made many lists (until last year). Is there any correlation here or are BABIPs in the minors as unreliable as they’re often made out to be?
Search Google for “KATOH”, developed by Chris, and you’ll have your answer.
A little, but it’s not very predictive. If you go to minorleaguecentral.com and sort through BABIP leaders back to 2011, you see a lot of names you have no reason to recognize.
According to my KATOH research, they do have some predictive value. But as always, it’s important to hedge for sample size when looking at BABIPs.
Goldschmidt is Jeff Bagwell all over again. Bagwell was taken a little higher (4th round) but some of the scouting reports on him were remarkably similar. To wit:
“All his coaches including High School have nothing but nice things to say about him and his work ethic… Does not impress you immediately, has to be seen a couple of times. Below ave. runner and range… Should be taken between the 7-10 rounds next year. Higher if he improves his defense…” (Padres scout Donald Labossiere, 1989)
“Value: $25,000… Not a holler guy, but comes to play – hard nosed and a hustler… This fellow is the best looking hitter on the East Coast and I think he’s got a chance to hit .300 with power in any league, right up to the majors… His defense would bother me more if we were an astroturf club, but I don’t think he’s hopeless… Has no fear and his work habits are good.” (Angels scout Jon Niederer, 1989)
“Really like bat!!! However lack of speed will hurt chances severely. Good hands at 3rd, arm accurate with quick release. Bat very good. Hits ball foul line to foul line, but very slow.” (White Sox scout Cal Emery, 1990)
http://www.astroscounty.com/2013/05/scouting-reports-of-day-jeff-bagwell.html
Lesson: look for guys who are perceived to be maybe not athletic enough even though the hit tool is obvious and then try to identify the ones who have both the drive to make themselves better athletes and the baseball instincts to get the very most out of tools they do have.
I can’t understand why a guy who simply mashes at every stop is not a more highly rated prospect. He hit everywhere they let him play, not his fault he was a bit older. Maybe “older” prospects are a potential market inefficiency.
After reading about how Goldy worked to improve his physique, I immediately thought of Richie Shaffer. Shaffer put on 30 pounds this offseason, and his results show it. Like Goldschmidt, Shaffer was left off all prospect lists, with Kiley writing “been so bad I wasn’t going to mention him at all until Rays personnel raved about his offensive adjustments in instructs; I’ll give him one more season”.
His AAA .279/.368/.626 isn’t quite Goldschmidt-ian, but Shaffer’s doing his damage at AAA. Shaffer’s final month in AA last year he hit .357/.486/.768.
Considering Shaffer repeated AA to start the year, he perfectly fits in with your statement “power hitters with a good amount of strikeouts who aren’t particularly young for their level — are overlooked more often than they should be.”
I was thinking about Shaffer too when I read this piece. His stock should certainly go up after the season he’s had and if he gets moved to 1B, the opportunity to play is there.
Shaffer, however, was a first round pick. And Goldschmidt never really struggled in the minors. Shaffer took some time. And although his stock is up, he Ks more than Goldschmidt did in the high minors, with a lower average. He really has improved a lot this year though and put himself back on the radar.
There’s differences, but there’s a lot more similarities. Shaffer never really struggled either. He posted at least a 137 wRC+ at 3 of his 5 stops (100 PA min), and his other 2 were a 112 and 99. Goldschmidt posted a 27 % K rate in A+. Shaffer posted a 20%. Goldschmidt posted a 20% k rate in AA. Shaffer posted a 24% in his full season last year. There’s a difference, but whatever difference there is isn’t a disqualifier when talking about similarities.
Fair points. I think, however, that as a bat first first round pick, Shaffer had been a bit of a disappointment until this year. Kiley had him out of the Rays top 30 and said he wasn’t even going to mention him until convinced by a Rays contact that Shaffer had made some great adjustments in instructionals. He said he’d give him one more year in the comments on other players outside his top 30.
Part of my point ws that Goldschmidt was not highly thought of coming out of college. Shaffer was a first rounder.
Plus, Goldschmidt at age 23 K’d at a 20% rate and walked at an 18% rate in AA, with a 178 wRC+. Shaffer last year at age 23 walked 11% and struck out 24% of the time, and had a 112 wRC+. I just think Goldschmidt looked like he had a better hit tool.
Shaffer has picked it up this year. But I think he profiles more like a righty Carlos Pena as a hitter. Which, hey, isn’t bad, although even Pena had higher averages and walk rates in the high minors than Shaffer thus far. Still, you have to like what Shaffer has done this year and he could get even better. The power sure has been there.
Shaffer actually just missed my list of Double-A comps.
His hard work was a huge part of it, he dropped because he was a college player with nothing to fall back on if the bat didn’t pan out. He’s fleshed out his game with being a good baserunner and isn’t a liability in the field (though obviously he’s still limited to one position in the NL). The narrative in the Dbacks realm was the coaching staff worked to “shorten” his swing prior to the 2012 season, which theoretically enabled him to open up more of the field and strike out less. I don’t have a ton to back up the former, since there’s not a lot to compare to, but he has gone to the opposite field more since then.
In the link from minorleagueball I posted below, someone in the comment section said actually that in 2010 he ws hitting homers to center and opposite field, but got tied up by inside heat. He then worked to get him to pull more inside heat (not sure if this was with Hinch), leading to a stellar 2012 in AA and the majors, with a lowering of his K rate in the minors.
By early June of 2011 Sickels seems to have become convinced by Goldschmidt’s AA numbers. Here is his writeup and in the comment section he says he’s a definite B+ (up from B- pre-season) and probably an A-, if not an A. That would make him probably top 20 or higher. Given that 2010 he was in Visalia and K’ing around 30%, I think the lowering of his K rate in the jump to AA was the big tell.
http://www.minorleagueball.com/2011/6/2/2201292/prospect-of-the-day-paul-goldschmidt-1b-arizona-diamondbacks#68672796