Making Sense of the Quentin Acquisition

The Padres acquired Carlos Quentin over the weekend by sending prospects Simon Castro and Pedro Hernandez to the can-anyone-tell-if-they-are-actually-rebuilding White Sox. At first glance, the move doesn’t make much sense for the Padres. Quentin’s attributes may not translate to the spacious PETCO Park and he is about to enter his final year under team control. Further, the Padres aren’t really in a position to contend in 2012, where a slugging corner outfielder could be the difference in a tight race.

Even if they were, this deal is worth scrutinizing because Quentin is a tough player to peg. He can hit, but plays the field about as bad as a corner outfielder can. His home run totals can partly thank the friendly dimensions of US Cellular Field — fifth-highest park factor for homers in 2011 — whereas dingers are suppressed in his new digs. And given his contractual status, the Padres aren’t even going to get a great deal out of this, as Quentin will likely cost around $8 million before being able to file for free agency.

However, trades like this are always interesting to discuss because they shed light on an element of transaction theory. Mainly, they elicit questions about why a team in the Padres situation would even bother acquiring Quentin. Before delving into their mindset, though, let’s take a closer look at Quentin himself.

Quentin is, without question, a talented hitter with a good eye and plus-power. Even after granting that his 2008 campaign was somewhat fluky — he hasn’t come close to that power output since, and his walk rate tailed off as well — his plate production over the past three years has been solid. In over 1,400 plate appearances since 2009, Quentin has a .245/.336/.479 line and a .354 wOBA that ranks 30th out of the 98 qualifying American League hitters. His 71 home runs ranks 15th among that same group and his slugging percentage ranks in the top 25 as well. How that translates to PETCO Park remains to be seen, but expecting 30+ homers is unrealistic.

His walk rate doesn’t measure up to his reputation, placing him in the lower half of the qualifying list, and his OBP is likely further inflated — even at just .336 over the last three years — by his propensity to get hit by pitches. It’s unclear whether that is a legitimately sustainable skill, but Quentin’s 58 HBPs since 2009 clearly leads the junior circuit; Kevin Youkilis ranks second at 40, a full 18 beanings behind. Quentin may sustain his HBP totals by virtue of his batting stance but it’s far less indicative of his patience or eye than if his OBP was more contingent on his ability to draw walks.

Despite his decent rankings on the offensive leaderboards, Quentin has tallied a measly 2.1 WAR since 2009, which ranks 90th out of the 98 qualifying AL players. The major reason is his horrific fielding. His -38.1 UZR is by far the worst in the league. That calculates out to an average of -13 runs per year at one of the easiest-to-field positions. Those marks also came in a smaller park — roaming left field in PETCO will prove to be a much tougher task than in US Cellular.

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The other contributing factor to his low WAR output is time on the field. He played just 348 of a possible 486 games over the last three seasons and has never played more than 131 games in a single season. Overall, Quentin is a very odd player. He hits home runs but isn’t prolific in that area. He is reputed to have a good eye but has a lower OBP driven a great deal by HBPs. He’s a terrible defender that can’t stay on the field for a full season, and he won’t come necessarily cheap this year.

The Padres will pay around $8 million for his services in addition to the value of Castro and Hernandez. While those two aren’t considered to have much upside, Quentin produced -0.5 WAR in 2009 and defined the replacement level in 2010. Only last season, when his UZR improbably improved, did he produce positively, and it’s hard to imagine a positive UZR from him in PETCO. But the Padres may not have made this move specifically for their own well-being this coming season. It’s entirely possible that Josh Byrnes and company are hedging their bets here, hoping to turn two mediocre prospects into Quentin, who in turn can be flipped for a better package at the trade deadline.

Acquiring Quentin for half of a season and $4 million might make sense for several playoff contenders. In that regard, the Padres may have agreed to this trade given its sheer lack of risk. If Quentin stinks, then they pay him his $8 million and he signs elsewhere as a free agent. If he performs well, they could attempt to work out a team-friendly extension, or trade him to an interested party at the deadline.

Then again, as the David DeJesus situation showed us last year, this type of “domain name squatting” could come back to bite a team. Since Quentin has struggled to stay healthy, the worst possible situation would involve mediocre production from him that fails to inspire anyone, and a season-ending injury that comes before they could eke anything out of another team.

The Padres will monitor the situation closely, and it will be interesting to see how they handle a player who, on the surface, doesn’t seem to fit anything they’re doing.





Eric is an accountant and statistical analyst from Philadelphia. He also covers the Phillies at Phillies Nation and can be found here on Twitter.

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Chump Change
14 years ago

*eke

JWO
14 years ago

This almost feels like something the Oakland A’s would try. I think the Pads might have slipped up on this one…

Spike
14 years ago
Reply to  JWO

but they didn’t give up much.

James Gentile
14 years ago
Reply to  Spike

it’s still 8 million bucks, though.

NM
14 years ago

This move was almost certainly to reap back better talent at the deadline (like the Huston Street trade), and it’s hard to imagine that not happening based on how little they gave up.

The one area in which this disappoints for them is it means they may wind up trading someone like Venable or Blanks.

Spike
14 years ago
Reply to  NM

yeah, what I don’t get is why a team in their position (not likely to contend given the DBacks and Rox look pretty strong) would punt on the chance to see what a healthy Kyle Blanks could do given 500 PAs. He’s a guy with real topline power who could be a middle of the order bull in that park if he could play an adequate LF. Considering where they are, I’d have given him that shot this year.

Maybe they will eventually stick Quentin in RF and leave Blanks in left. Not sure about the upside of the Denorfia/Venable RF combo. Both are really 4th OFers.

cable fixer
14 years ago
Reply to  Spike

agree. not playing blanks–or worse, selling low on him as a result of this move–is the hidden cost here.

not sure what i’m missing. does byrnes not think blanks is a longterm solution?

Spike
14 years ago
Reply to  Spike

seems like the Pads aren’t finished. they’ve got a bunch of players seemingly in limbo and a bunch of #3 starters. and what the heck did they go and sign Mark Kotsay for so early?!

NM
14 years ago
Reply to  Spike

Is Blanks out of options? If not, they could still hang onto him by sending to AAA until they move Quentin near the deadline. Denorfia and Kotsay (lol) are extra outfielders. Venable seems like the one who will probably get moved but they may be able to keep Blanks if he can still be sent down.

cable fixer
14 years ago
Reply to  Spike

but blanks is 26 and had a >.400 wOBA last year in limited time in AAA and put up 1.1 WAR in 55 games in the show. if there was a reasonable expectation they’d be in contention, ok, i can see the argument to keeping him in AAA. but they’re not.

but yeah, maybe this is just a case of the next shoe not having dropped yet.

Dufus
14 years ago
Reply to  Spike

Evidently you’ve never seen Blanks play. He’s proved nothing even when healthy and the Padres plan to swap Jesus Guzman/Alonso at either 1B or the other OF spot, not Blanks. Blanks came back last year, played full time, and underwhelmed just like Venable.

cable fixer
14 years ago
Reply to  Spike

but if you’re right about blanks, you would have been just as right about him after a healthy season next year. giving him 500 ABs likely yields two outcomes. he “underwhelms”–although by your definition, at last year’s rate, that would be close to 3 WAR–or he doesn’t, and his trade value appreciates.

i don’t see the logic in selling low on a guy who played servicable OF defense with legit pop when the guy who was just acquired can do only one of those things while earning 7 MM more.

Jay
14 years ago
Reply to  Spike

I don’t see where this move means the Padres are giving up on Blanks.

@NM: you noted that Denorfia and Kotsay are extra outfielders. Kotsay obviously isn’t going anywhere. [For better or worse, Bud Black loves having an over-the-hill vet on the roster to PH against closers and setup men. I’m not saying it’s the best use of resources, but it’s a signing the Padres will make each year he’s their manager.] So, why wouldn’t the Padres move Denorfia (in his final year of arbitration) instead of Blanks/Venable? The 340 PA Denorfia got last year could easily be given to Blanks instead. That seems to me to be the next logical move the Padres make.

PiratesBreak500
14 years ago
Reply to  Spike

With all the interleague play, might make sense to have Quentin as a part time DH/pinch hitter. While in the past, a pinch hitter couldn’t be expected to get that many at bats, now there may be a lot more at bats to throw his way as a PH/DH/ occassional starter. Course, if they want to trade him, will starting him in the outfield and letting him get more at bats help or hurt his value?

I’m not sure on the number of interleague games per year next year- anyone know?

Dick Almighty
14 years ago

I guess we’ll know whether they “slipped up” after the season. Doesn’t make sense to make that assessment before the fact: we can all see the upside and downside here.

Bill
14 years ago
Reply to  Dick Almighty

Isn’t that a purpose of this site? Any idiot can judge a trade based upon the results down the road, but there is an element of luck involved in any trade. Buy lottery tickets is always a bad bet, winning does not make it a better bet. A GM who makes irrational trades will, more times than not, fail.

Jeff
14 years ago

The pads r getting depth and plan could contend if all the players pan out. They have lots of talent.

Baltar
14 years ago
Reply to  Jeff

Any team “could contend if all the players pan out.” That is a meanigless statement.

cpebbles
14 years ago

Bad 2011 aside, Castro alone is better than anyone you’re going to get for two months of Quentin after he stinks up Petco.

JJ
14 years ago

Could the Padres be assuming that even if Quentin leaves in free agency the draft pick they would get back would be worth more than the prospects they gave up? Even if Quentin plays poorly he would probably be at least a Type B.

guesswork
14 years ago
Reply to  JJ

I’m assuming that by next season the new free agent compensation system will be in place. To get the draft picks, the Padres would need to offer Quentin the qualifying offer of ~$12-13M, and unless he really breaks out at Petco, that won’t happen.

Brandon Warne
14 years ago

Quentin’s line is really hard to project out. He hits a ton of fly balls, which probably doesn’t play up for Petco, but also probably shouldn’t have left him with something like a .255 career BABIP either.

Overall though? It’s a puzzling move for a team that won’t contend, and with a guy that’s a year from free agency.

Pete
14 years ago

Josh Byrnes, Padres GM (from ESPN article):

“Trading him is pretty high on my list of regrets,” Byrnes said. “That group in Arizona had a lot of talent. Carlos always stood out for his intensity and his style of play. Having a chance to get him back became very appealing here this offseason.”

Is this BS, i.e. “cover-up” for their plans to flip Quentin at the deadline, or does Byrnes really target players based on their “intensity”?

Brandon Warne
14 years ago
Reply to  Pete

Guessing cover-up, but I’m led to believe that GMs often like that sort of stuff way more than saber-inclined folks do.

BX
14 years ago
Reply to  Pete

Also: Why should Byrnes regret trading Quentin? He traded an injury prone player as essentially part of a deal to get a top pitcher.

(Now, DiPoto trading said pitcher away was bad, but Byrnes wasn’t with the organization when it happened)

djp
14 years ago

This guy knows how to get hit by a baseball.

Dan
14 years ago

Perhaps the acquisition of Quentin is an attempt to show that Petco’s dimensions/conditions really only suppress homeruns to right-center field, while every other part of the park is close to average. A right-handed pull hitter should expect to hit a similar number of homeruns in Petco as an average MLB stadium.

cable fixer
14 years ago
Reply to  Dan

unlikely. according to the famous THT park factors article, he’s moving from a ballpark that is top 5 in playing to his strengths (assuming he’s a pull righty who uses only LF and LCF) to one that takes a bit of massaging to be declared “average”. according to the THT park factors approach, Petco is roughly 20th overall for a RH pull hitter.

that’s not to say that Petco’s effect isn’t a bit exaggerated in the public consciousness, but without improvement, it’s far from unwarranted to expect to see Quentin see an ISO drop next year.

Ben Hall
14 years ago
Reply to  cable fixer

According to StatCorner, San Diego only suppresses home runs for right handed batters by 5%. It does suppress doubles by quite a bit (28%). That may wind up having the a strong negative for Quentin (especially compared to Chicago), but it seems like the home runs, at least, won’t drop off too terribly.

cable fixer
14 years ago
Reply to  cable fixer

but US cellular isn’t an average park for RH pull hitters, right?

also, shouldn’t ISO be the preferrable measuring stick over HR when discussing power? (unless this is a fantasy discussion, in which case, oops)

Jay
14 years ago
Reply to  Dan

I think you’re onto something here. There are three significant impacts that Petco has on hitters:

1. fewer HRs hit to CF-RF
2. depression of BAbip on all flyballs

At first glance it seems that Quentin would be minimally impacted by Petco. Like you said, he’s a right-handed pull hitter. And, his .110 career BAbip on flies is already well below the league average. But, cable fixer brings up a good point. Quentin may be a good fit for his new park, but he’s an even better fit for his old park. I don’t think this move is likely to convince many that certain hitters can thrive in Petco. But it can be enough to convince Quentin.

The third impact is the mental effect that Petco has on hitters. I’d elaborate, but I think its reputation precedes itself. The initial rumors that the Padres were interested in Quentin included a quote from Byrnes. He noted that it will be difficult to attract free agent power hitters to Petco, so they would likely have to get them through trades. What I suspect is that the Quentin trade is more of an audition. Quentin will have a minimum of half-or-so of a season to see if he can adjust to Petco. And, if he does, that leads to mutual interest in an extension – something that might not have been otherwise possible.

CircleChange11
14 years ago

can-anyone-tell-if-they-are-actually-rebuilding White Sox.

1. They locked up a good young pitcher (Danks) through his prime age seasons for a good value contract.

2. They traded an all bat no field veteran in his final season under contract for a SP that was #1 in SDP’s organization 2 years ago, and another pitcher.

3. They didn’t resign 3 veterans that reached free agency (Vizquel, Pierre, Castro).

4. They traded a reliever for a SP prospect.

Isn’t that what rebuilding looks like?

Please tell me we’re not using the ridiculous definition of rebuilding where all veteran players are traded for prospects that most likely won’t turn out and every move is essentially a salary dump … freeing up a bunch of money for future transactions (even though we know rebuilding through free agency is least efficient way of doing it)?

CWS has some players/contracts that completely eliminates the type of rebuilding that some seem to favor … the total roster overhaul, everyone must go roster turnover. Has that type of rebuilding ever worked?

Now, on the other hand, looks like SDP is trying what OAK did with Matt Holliday. I am not seeing this working out for SDP. I think they basically just gave CWS their former #1 prospect and took on 8M salary of a player that’s likely to give away almost as many runs as he provides at the plate … and I say that as a TCQ fan. I think he works very hard, but just cannot get out of his way … sometimes literally.

cable fixer
14 years ago
Reply to  CircleChange11

i think that’s a really eloquent defense of these moves in concert. if you remember that 3 well-heeled veterans (dunn, rios, pierre) produced the staggering sum of -5 WAR (!) last year, it’s also not completely inconceivable that they compete at some point along the way to developing stewart/nestor/castro.

Eminor3rd
14 years ago
Reply to  CircleChange11

Agreed. I think the “Sox in the middle” thing is being overplayed as well They ARE rebuilding, but it’s not a video game where you can do it in one year. If Danks finally reaches his peak in the next season or two, he’s going to be a an extremely valuable trade chip on that contract, or remain a workhorse for the Sox if they’re good then. Note that he only has full trade protection in 2012, and he can only block like 6 teams after.

And if you ever listen to sports radio, you know that the typical fan actually will freak out if all the well-known players get moved at once. Attendance has been a problem, and dumping all the veterans, even in good trades, will actually make more people stop coming.

Bill
14 years ago
Reply to  CircleChange11

A true rebuilding team would have traded their most valuable asset, Danks, for prospects. They will likely be wasting his prime years whereas any prospects acquired could hit their prime when the team is once more competitive.

CircleChange11
14 years ago
Reply to  Bill

How much value would he have really brought back?

Mat Latos brought back a load because he’s an elite performance pitcher under 4 more years of team control … and the team that acquired him traded from positions of surplus.

Danks is less talent for far fewer years and for more money.

What prospects does Danks yield in a trade?

Gavin Floyd is more valuable than Danks. Alexei Ramirez is more valuable than Floyd.

I think Danks is being given too much trade value given that he’s a 3 to 3.5 WAR pitcher with a year remaining on his deal (before the extension).

——————————–

I think the CWS have a good chance to be competitive in 2013. Peavey will be bought out … Ramirez, Danks, and Floyd will all be in prime age seasons with good team contracts, and they’ll have some money to make some moves. It’ll also be Paulie’s last year, and that money [probably goes to a Floyd extension (if he’s still with the team).

baty
14 years ago
Reply to  Bill

The White Sox are rebuilding, but they are rebuilding for the short term and not the long term. They won’t give in to anything completely because the White Sox aren’t equipped to handle its short-term and long-term consequences.

The best of their youth is OLD. That’s why Danks was resigned. His window matches closely with guys like Viciedo, Beckham, Stewart, Sale, De Aza, Morel, Alexi, Reed, Molina, Flowers, Axelrod etc…

For guys like Mitchell, Trayce, Keenyn, etc… (along with just about any of the rest of their second/third phase in the farm system), those are guys you hope will show enough sparkle so Kenny can jump on the phone (as usual) to start dealing (with any inflated values that can provide a reasonable return).

They can’t rely on a rebuild that includes using their MILB system because they only have a few to even consider as “MLB caliber” and/or “MLB ready”. So, they can’t deal away pieces that don’t have immediate replacements because they don’t have money to spend elsewhere (and why Santos and Quentin were “expendable”). I imagine this short term rebuild is taking place to buy more time in not exposing the MILB detriment they created, cause If/when it comes to having to deal the cluster of Beckham, Viciedo, Sale, Alexi, Danks, etc… (and if they still haven’t changed their drafting ways) you’re looking at a rebuild more along the lines of Rome.

This is a prototypical Kenny Williams… If you think the farm system is bare now, just wait… Kenny will find a way to make the empty cupboard emptier.

James
14 years ago

I think it’s a creative way to get opening day payroll up to the level that Moorad has publicly stated it would be at (I believe $50m), but doesn’t incur many non-financial risks. They have plenty of depth at SP to cover the prospects they traded, and they can/will probably flip Rizzo or Blanks or one of the 3Bs in the system for some more.

Fiery Furnaces
14 years ago
Reply to  James

I completely agree. The Pads are at risk of being below the threshold of acceptably low payroll. And Bud just let them in the club! Bad form. Must spend more money before the Players Association attacks.

If you think that’s cynical, I only wish it was. It really is too bad a floor wasn’t negotiated in to the agreement.

James
14 years ago
Reply to  Fiery Furnaces

I definitely was not being cynical… The only way to get payroll above $50m without Bell is going to require adding some parts more expensive than Kotsay. It seems unlikely they would outlay much money in free agency, so expensive one year rentals is the way to go.

I’ve been watching this all offseason wondering how they’re going to end up above $50m. I think it’s one of the most interesting subplots of the offseason. I thought Rizzo for Garza was one possibility.

Spike
14 years ago
Reply to  Fiery Furnaces

they’re a prime landing spot for Kuroda or Oswalt.

Clayday
14 years ago

Eric,
I think you’re overlooking some things in saying that Quentin doesn’t really have a good eye. 1) He has an above average isolated on-base percentage (OBP-AVG, in Quentin’s case it’s .094), but his dismal batting average brings his OBP down considerably. 2) While he has a low career AVG, he also has a low career BABIP, which suggests that either he’s due for some regression or he’s just one of those players who sustains a low BABIP (a perfectly reasonable explanation given his lack of speed and high FB%).

Therefore, although you point out that Quentin has a low BB% and although Quentin has sustained a low BABIP, it’s also worth noting that there is room for the potential that he does have a good eye (maybe something not caught by BB%, or fluky last year) and could raises his BABIP through simple regression. This would make him a much larger attribute to the Padres through luck alone.

Glomp
14 years ago

They could seek to flip him for a quality-not-quantity prospect. Then they would be trading two fringy guys for a real-ish prospect.

gomer
14 years ago
Reply to  Glomp

fwiw, mlball had castro at #2 going into 2011 with a B+ grade.

i get that last year was a mess, but still…is quentin netting something more than that at the deadline?

Bryan
14 years ago

The reason the Padres acquired Carlos Quentin? The only players who have put up a higher WAR than Quentin who have played for San Diego have been Adrian Gonzalez and Chase Headley, and only Gonzalez has posted a higher wOBA. The batch of prospects San Diego has right now is fantastic, but if they want to compete again they’ll also need to add some proven players of Quentin’s caliber. Barring a flop, I think Quentin will be in San Diego for multiple seasons and not just four months.

James
14 years ago
Reply to  Bryan

As a White Sox fan living in SD, I hope he plays well and sticks around… but I’m not sure how well his defense is going to play in PETCO and the other NL West parks over the long term, and you won’t be able to move him to 1B assuming one of Alonso/Rizzo/Blanks/Guzman is there. Factor in his injury history and likely salary demands, it doesn’t seem like the Padres would go any more than year-to-year with him (maybe with some team options).

pft
14 years ago

Guy is entering his peak hitting years, obviously hated hitting at Cellular Field last year (988 OPS on the road) and crushes LHP’ers. Given his injury history, he might do well to sit against tough RHP’ers like JD Drew sat against tough LHP’ers with the Red Sox and obtain a platoon advantage while stay healthier longer. Getting away from Ozzie should put 100 OPS points on all the White Sox hitters, no matter where they play.

Reasonable gamble for the Padres. Pretty nice upisde potential, acceptable downside and risk.

James Gentile
14 years ago
Reply to  pft

Wow, .988 on the road and .688 at USCell? Insanity.

gomer
14 years ago
Reply to  James Gentile

Year/Home ISO/Road ISO
11/167/302
10/291/177
09/252/184
08/308/259