Manny Machado: Superstar in the Making
Last year, Mike Trout and Bryce Harper had two of the best seasons for age-19/age-20 players in baseball history. We might not ever see anything like Trout’s 2012 season from a 20-year-old again. Those two ruined our expectations for what underaged position players are supposed to do in the big leagues. Everyone else pales in comparison to what we just saw.
That shouldn’t cause us to overlook the fact that there’s another 20-year-old putting his mark on Major League Baseball right now. In Baltimore, Manny Machado is showing the early signs of being a superstar.
For instance, let’s just start with a fun little comparison to another third baseman who came up at a similar point in his career. This is their MLB performance through their age-20 season.
| Name | PA | BB% | K% | ISO | BABIP | AVG | OBP | SLG | wOBA | wRC+ |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Manny Machado | 331 | 5% | 18% | 0.187 | 0.318 | 0.281 | 0.315 | 0.468 | 0.337 | 109 |
| Miguel Cabrera | 346 | 7% | 24% | 0.201 | 0.329 | 0.268 | 0.325 | 0.468 | 0.338 | 107 |
Miguel Cabrera is going to go down as one of the best right-handed hitters of all time. Manny Machado, through a similar number of plate appearances accrued at roughly the same point in his career, has put up an almost identical batting line. Other hitters who were slightly above average through their age-20 season? Hank Aaron, Johnny Bench, Roberto Alomar, and Joe Torre, to name a few.
Of course, 350 solid plate appearances at a young age doesn’t guarantee greatness, as Machado’s numbers are also pretty similar to what Ruben Sierra put up at the same point in his career. Machado probably isn’t going to turn into Miguel Cabrera, who was always lauded for his exceptional offensive abilities as a prospect. Machado has never been lauded as that kind of hitter.
But, Machado doesn’t have to be that kind of hitter to be a superstar. Despite the fact that they have similar numbers to start their careers, and both are listed at the same position on the line-up card, Machado is far more than just a hitter. In fact, his defense is his real calling card right now.
While you need to heavily regress defensive metrics in a 700 inning sample, it’s still worth noting that both UZR and DRS have Machado at +12 in a half season’s worth of playing time, and since he was only moved off of shortstop because of the presence of J.J. Hardy, we should expect that he’d grade out as an above average defender at third base. Machado’s profile as a prospect always suggested he could be a true shortstop, so we’re essentially seeing a guy play a position that he’s overqualified for. Even if he projected as just an average shortstop, we’d expect him to be something like a +5 third baseman just based on the difference between his peers at the two spots.
So, no, you shouldn’t expect Machado to keep up his +25 UZR/150 pace. However, you shouldn’t be regressing him back to zero either. The rest-of-season forecasts for both ZIPS and Steamer, which add in significant regression, both project +7 defense over the next five months, which works out to a forecast of about +10 runs saved over an average third baseman for a full year. Calling Machado a +10 defender at third after just a few hundred innings might seem aggressive, but for a guy who is a natural shortstop and has effortlessly made the conversion to a new position, it’s probably in the right ballpark.
If Machado’s a +10 defender at third base, then even with league average offense, he’d be roughly a +3 win player right now. And the offense clearly has room to grow.
If we take all the players in the last 60 years — essentially, taking us back to the post-WWII era where things got somewhat back to normal — who posted a wRC+ between 100 and 110 through their age-20 season (minimum 300 PA) and then look at what they did at age 21, you see some huge steps forward.
| Name | PA | BB% | K% | ISO | BABIP | AVG | OBP | SLG | wOBA | wRC+ | <21 wRC+ |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Cesar Cedeno | 625 | 9% | 10% | 0.216 | 0.328 | 0.320 | 0.385 | 0.537 | 0.413 | 163 | 100 |
| Hank Aaron | 665 | 7% | 9% | 0.226 | 0.313 | 0.314 | 0.366 | 0.540 | 0.396 | 144 | 103 |
| Johnny Bench | 592 | 8% | 15% | 0.194 | 0.304 | 0.293 | 0.353 | 0.487 | 0.373 | 126 | 103 |
| Roberto Alomar | 702 | 8% | 11% | 0.080 | 0.323 | 0.295 | 0.347 | 0.376 | 0.327 | 110 | 107 |
| Rick Manning | 606 | 7% | 12% | 0.101 | 0.325 | 0.292 | 0.337 | 0.393 | 0.336 | 116 | 102 |
| Miguel Cabrera | 685 | 10% | 22% | 0.219 | 0.335 | 0.294 | 0.366 | 0.512 | 0.374 | 129 | 107 |
| Joe Torre | 248 | 10% | 10% | 0.114 | 0.295 | 0.282 | 0.355 | 0.395 | 0.337 | 107 | 104 |
| Ruben Sierra | 696 | 6% | 16% | 0.207 | 0.272 | 0.263 | 0.302 | 0.470 | 0.327 | 95 | 103 |
A group that posted an average 104 wRC+ through age 20 jumped to an average of 124 at age 21. Machado is at the point where his offensive performance could trend upwards in a hurry, and this kind of leap — combined with his defensive value — would make him one of the best all around players in the game.
It’s hard not to look at Machado and see him as the heir apparent to Evan Longoria if he stays at third base. The bat might not be quite as Cabrera’s level, because Cabrera’s bat is one of the best we’ve ever seen, but when you add in the defense and athleticism, Machado has a chance to be a legitimate MVP contender, and perhaps in the not too distant future.
The game is absolutely flooded with superb young talent right now. A few years ago, we were writing about how spectacular Justin Upton was at a young age. Then it was Jason Heyward. Then it was Giancarlo Stanton. Then it was Trout and Harper. It seems like we’re writing these articles every year now.
But that doesn’t make them any less true, nor should we overlook what Machado is on track to turn into simply because we have great young player fatigue. Given what he’s done in his first few months in the majors, Machado is probably on the verge of becoming one of the game’s elite performers. Bryce Harper deserves all the accolades he’s been given, but let’s save some for the other great 20-year-old playing not too far away from the nation’s capitol.
Dave is the Managing Editor of FanGraphs.
JJ Hardy sucks. Machado should be playing SS
Lol.
Shhhh. What are you doing?!
?
Dave,
Once JJ Hardy becomes a free agent, do you think they slot Machado over to SS?
Elvis Andrus received a 120 million dollar deal for playing top tier defense, while producing around 5-20% fewer runs on average at the SS position. Please tell me, why does Hardy suck?
His offense seems to be eroding. Last year he had a .282 OBP. His career OBP wasn’t superb, so erosion in that skillset doesn’t leave him with much room. (.311 career OBP).
Hardy sucks? Remember 2011? Hardy is plus defense and power, and that’s VERY valuable at a position where the D-Backs are starting Didi Gregorious and Cliff Pennington.
Saying Hardy doesn’t suck because he’s better than the D’Backs situation is like saying Delmon Young doesn’t suck because he’s better than Jeff Francoeur.
Sure, Hardy has good D but he’s aging, and while he has some pop, he’s got a sub .300 OBP – pretty terrible. 2nd to last of qualifying shortstops last year and 4th to last in wOBA and wRC+ of qualifying shortstops.
See post above.
Andrus had a higher wOBA last year and could be reasonably expected to produce more this year given the development curve and his age along it. He is about 7 years younger than Hardy which is good for both defense and offense.
Either way it’s a bad comparison. Furthermore, when you are at the bottom of the SS ranks for offensive production, that is a far cry from 5% less than the average SS.
Contract size should have nothing to do with it.
Hardy was almost a 3 win player in a season wherein his babip was the lowest of his career… I realize he’s aging, but he is EXTREMELY valuable. If the O’s can lock him down for a short term deal, they come out ahead. If the Cards can get Beltran, the O’s can get Hardy. He doesn’t suck.
Hey now! Delmon Young’s got .2 WAR in 2 games with the Phillies!
Which means that… if he suffered a season-ending injury today… he’d have his third-highest WAR total in 8 major league seasons.
Well, at least he’s a class act off the field…
Even in his best years, Hardy has never been a good OBP player. Basically, he’s a SS with above average D and 20 HR ability when healthy. What’s new?
You guys look pretty foolish for criticizing me about Hardy. Have you seen his year so far? Go look. I dare you
If you want to include “In the making,” the correct word is “God” not “Superstar.”
Concerning the rarity of age-20 seasons of this scale, Trout ~ Kaline while Bryce Harper ~ Mantle. Kaline was actually a bit better than Trout except as a baserunner. Mantle may have had a bit more natural power than does Harper, it’ll be up to Bryce to improve his plate discipline if he wants to sustain the comparison. There have _always_ been guys around this good at age-20. It’s just that they are very rare; a couple in a generation, and bound for the Hall if they don’t break down. It’s quite unusual to have two of them break out in the same year, though. What is not unusual is that all of these guys were identified as very high ceiling prospects from the very beginning of their careers. Guys who are going to be this good don’t suddenly ‘get good’ after merely solid amateur tours: They always played at the very pinnacle of projectability, something to bear well in mind in the alternative case when a guy’s performance spikes crazily and mysteriously off of any projected path for him.
And yeah, we definitely should NOT expect most guys to sustain such a comparison as Machado to M. Cabrera. Through the first 350 ABs even Dustin Ackley can look pretty good . . . . The league finds a guy’s flaws if he has them and doesn’t fix them. The remark buried in this thread concerning selection bias stands well to consider; simply picking the best outcome to whome Manny Machado could be projected is an interesting exercise in dreamcasting, but that only if not invalid per se.
While defense bounces around year to year, it holds to it’s baseline when a player is young, so it’s Machado’s D which has particularly caught my eye. I would see Adrian Beltre as a better comp for Machado than Longoria, but hey, that’s a pretty good career there if Manny can go get it. The majors are brimming right now with top shelf _young_ talent, yes; it’s a good time to be watching. And the two teams of the Chesapeake with R. Zimmerman, Rendon, and now Machado: THERE’S a great natural rivalry to follow for a while. Not quite Mays-Mantle-Snider but not, perhaps, too far off that. Stanton, Trout, Harper, Machado, probably Profar, possibly Taveras: gotta love all that. If my team had rounded up anybody that good, I’d be rather happier, but . . . yeah.
You listed several good very young non-pitchers who have popped up very recently, which I had noticed myself. Having so many at one time strikes me as unusual. Am I correct and, if so, is it just coincidence or a trend?
The Orioles really need to buy Neal Huntington a fruit basket or something.
Mach-a-do about nothing.
When I was reading the Orlando Sun-Sentinal’s story (http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2013-03-16/news/fl-moneyball-jr-20130317_1_travel-baseball-travel-ball-head-coach) on youth travel baseball leagues, I thought about the amount of young talent in MLB right now. I wondered though, are we seeing more young talent than ever? If so, is it caused by the amount of top-level baseball these kids are playing at such a young age? It’ll be interesting to look back in 10-15 years to see how much talent there is in MLB and where it all came from.
Hakunah Machado!
PEDs allowed older players to delay the aging process and stay healthy longer (didn’t make them better players, allowed them to stay/get healthy longer/quicker). Testing has limited artificial career extenders and shifted the talent cycle younger. 5-15 years ago you couldnt break into big league OFs with 37 year-olds playing like 27 year olds. Testing is working and that doesn’t happen any more- 37 year olds play like 37 year olds.
This. As the age curve shifts to the left in MLB the skills that ballplayers bring to the yard will skew away from ‘old player skills’ like power and selectivity and toward things like speed and defensive range. The true superstars will be the ones that can work themselves up the curve faster (and start earlier), because they will have fewer years in the league to demonstrate value.
Your overall point has merit but the “(didn’t make them better players, allowed them to stay/get healthy longer/quicker)” part is utter nonsense. That’s basically a carbon copy of the Mark McGwire “Roids didn’t help me hit more homers, they helped me recover from workouts” defense. At best, that argument is an exercise in semantics. If a drug allows you to workout or practice longer and harder than ever and that said drug allows you to recover from these more rigorous training regimens faster than ever…the end result is a better ball player.
Agreed, both with utter the nonsense of the ‘PEDs didn’t make them better’ remark, but also the larger point that drying out older players has pushed talent younger.
Pitchers who throw like pitchers rather than 95 mph freaks deep into their 30s also gives high-skill younger players a bit more room to succeed _at the outset_. Typically looking over 120 years of major league history, the hitters with really high end tools make a big impact pretty young, but part of that is that they have always matched up well to the journeyman pitchers who make up the bulk of most staffs. Maybe they don’t hit the elite pitchers that much better, until their skills really catch up to their tools. But they feast on the average pitchers whereas young hitters of average tools just don’t.
I find it laughable that Machado is playing 3B because of….hardy. lol
Respect your elders, son..
You find it laughable that one of best defensive SS in the league is playing SS? I find your post laughable.
I agree. Against RHP, they should move Manny to SS and sit Hardy.
And play who at 3rd? Flaherty? Casilla? Pearce?
Nolan Reimold
By superstar, do you mean like Adam Dunn? Or more like Mark Trumbo?
Why is everyone writing about Machado? Why doesn’t Harper get any press?
Yeah, if there’s a guy that doesn’t get any press it’s Harper.
He is right where I like him, off my grass.
More like “He should be mowing your grass” amirite?
Will Manny become a superstar?
Nats Magic 8 ball: “Try again later”
Why are you so WEIRD at sports? Will you literally email me and tell me that you are slow?
What is the square root of his xFlip and tWAR?
Selection bias selection bias selection bias selection bias selection bias selection bias selection bias selection bias selection bias selection bias
One thing that stuck out for me with Machado in the series over the weekend with the A’s he was thrown out at the plate trying to advance on a throw to second base on an Adam Jones double. The Orioles had A’s starter Bartolo Colon on the ropes and would have had Jones and Machado on second and third with a chance to break the game open. Instead the inning ended and the A’s came back and eventually won the game in 10. Perhaps plays like those have given some other prognosticators pause before declaring Machado a future hall-of-famer?
Yep. Stick a fork in Machado. He’s done.
So 20 year olds should come out of the minors and just ignore their base coaches?
Or perhaps Buck Showalter needs to find a better base coach. Just a thought.
Yeah, I think at the point that a 20-year-old major leaguer shows poor judgment by making an out while hustling and trying to make something happen on the basepaths, he’s pretty much washed up.
Just a thought but don’t base coaches usually determine if players try to take an extra base? I’m sure 20 year olds are required to listen to base coaches more than older players who’ve been around and are free to use their own judgement.
I went to that game. I thought he was safe at home. Would that have made Machado a better player had the umpire made the correct call?
Everybody else read “showing the early signs of being a superstar”. You read “declaring Machado a future hall-of-famer”. Read better.
Dear Manny,
Stay away from AJ’s bubblegum.
.700 OPS ceiling.
No chance
All I did was make a simple statement of my opinion and you have to blow it out of proportion. No one is allowed to address their opinion unless it is the same as the O’s Bros.
GO TO YOUR ROOMS.
Clown Panties
And when you come out of your rooms, give us I dunno…maybe 1 reason we should even consider your opinion.
No one cares what your opinion is, unless you give us a reason or two to consider it.
Manny Machado? Sounds like a Mexican Dish.
Did you know I won a state title in HS at 3B? Did Manny ever do that? No.
BTW, did you guys see Isabelle Fuhrman? Damn.
Isabelle Fuhrman looks like an alien.
That might have been the worst throw I’ve ever seen.
Last night I offered to buy an adult beverage for Manny. He reminded me he was only 20 years old. So I drank all 9.
The real Gary Thorne is the worst play-by-play announcer in all of baseball… except for Fred Manfra, maybe.
And to think we used to have Jon Miller calling O’s games. I wanna cry.
Show some respect, son.
After all remember to drink
responsibly.
Trout and Harper have ruined expectations of young ballplayers forever.
Everyone also forgets that Giancarlo had a pretty historic season for a 22 year old last year himself.
Of players with 500+ PA, he had the highest wRC+ in almost 50 years (Boog Powell in 1964 was the last with a higher wRC+) and the highest ISO since Ted Williams in 1941.
He’s no Elijah Dukes
He banged my sister. 🙁
Have you seen those ears? Straight out of Clowntown.
Sure getting a lot of attention here. Italians must have figured out how to use the Internet.
Looks like our resident idiot is here to be miserable and ruin this section for everyone. Anyhow, who needs opinions when you can hate on one guy over and over and agree with good posters?
Hey, what channel is the crossfitting competition on?
Manny’s defense at third reminds me of Brooks. Brooks was busy against left-handed hitters because most could not catch up to my fastball. Which is why I hate it when Jake speeds up the bats by throwing his subpar slider with even worse control. Reminds me of the night in Detroit in ’68 when I had a rare bout of poor control, and Davey came in from second and we discussed the unfavourable chance deviation theory … basically aim for the middle of the plate. With my statistics I would probably be a $25 million/year player in today’s market. What were we talking about again?
Aw Jim, I know that many of the younger members of the TV audience gets tired of your recollections of events from the glory years of the Orioles, but some of us old fogies enjoy the trips down memory lane–even if they sometimes(?) include some major digressions.
And yes, Manny’s defense at 3B does remind me of Brooks, and yes you would certainly be earning $20-$25 million/year easily in today’s market. Of course, nobody would allow you to throw 25 complete games or 10 shutouts in one season (as you did in 1975) if your arm cost that much.
But Jim, I thought you were injured in ’68?
Hey guys, go Nats too!
Wait, there aren’t upvotes here? How am I supposed to justify my existence? Guess I’m having a hot meal with Satin tonight.
Those boys are adopted.
Manny Machado has broken his…
…own record for great plays at 3rd base
Bundle up. I’m expecting 12-48 inches of snow for the entire Baltimore area tomorrow.
Clown article bro.
I’d like to domestically violate Manny Machado.
286 can lick my balls
Hey everyone,
You may remember him as the guy who hit a giant sausage in the head with a bat. Be sure to check out my exclusive interview with Milwaukee’s public enemy #1, Randall Simon.
I remember Manny Ramirez
He was great baseall player
for cleveland Indians.
Orioles should have traded for Manny
back then instead of albert bell
20 years old? That’s way too old
All this talk here is way out of line and rather disgusting.
Oh, you have 8 dollars. Continue on.
Manny Machado isn’t even a top 3 third baseman in the AL. Trust me, I would know, I have premium.
Machado isn’t bad for a colored guy.
Great generalizations there, old man.
What I do not want is to give $15M/year for 2+ years to a 20-year old 3B who hasn’t made it through a season since age 19 after watching Brob for the last 4 years. His UZR^2 when regressed and combined with his projected .OPS- adjusted for ballpark is a bad indicator. Only a clown wouldn’t get that.
Wait wait wait… “A 20 year old who hasn’t made it through a season since age 19?” I don’t think you’re denigrating Manny as much as you’d hoped…
good player
late,
-gymterp
This is a horse shit article.
????·????????·????????·????
Anybody watching the game tonight? I’d recommend watching it on the new 72″ Panasonic since I have three of them in my living room. You can probably only afford one, but it’s definitely worth a couple of your paychecks to buy it.
Well at least he’s better than that f******* p**** piece of **** fat a** Ryan Zimmerman. I’m going to f****** murder the next person I see wearing that piece of s***’s jersey before jumping in front of a train.
What happened to all your swear words there dipshit?
Hey guys look at my orange bow tie
I guess you could say I’m a pretty impressive athlete. I’m the only guy on my softball team that can lock down 2nd base.
Food for thought–
289 .310 .403
Yuniesky Betancourt in 2006
Screw all you guys
GETTING HAMMERED TONIGHT BOI
Just kidding.. it’s nycterp
I think Manny just needs to stay at third. I got short on lockdown
Wtf is all this crap?
In my view, as good as Machado was at the end of last year thats how as good he has been now.
Just wanted to remind everyone that I got married.
Manny trying to get the pipe?
Mark it down–Orioles don’t lose a game again this year
Is Miguel Cabrera a better third baseman than Manny Machado?
Neigh.
cdxc cc vgbcvvfvv gjnbghfvdqww vghhghv grtffzxzv jsd
Let me just say that this Manny Machodo kid is one of the fcfrcfrcrftgvvhyhbykjswkswxnitjnf;otgnficx;klzm/xjjcij;nf;k c/vjck;frcrfkjcf jktc tfjctofnlctfc
Pie > Machado
Manny Machado? So 8 years ago.
jeff does manny want play shortstop
I love chromosomes so much that I got an extra one!
HAHAHAHAHAHA
Is it just me, or are there a shockingly high amount of off-the-wall insane comments on this article?
It’s as if Yahoo linked to FG.
I eat poop.
Wow, where did all these terrible commenters come from, go back to 4chan please…
what’s next…are you going to link me to KNUCKLEHEAD message board POSTERS talking about their DAD’S car he gave them. I remember the days of real journalism. Now we have DORKS sitting around in their mother’s BASEMENT posting about young kids on a baseball FIELD.
Can someone tell me if there are any senior discounts for premium. FREDTERP
It’s the New Shmoo Review!
Fine young Manny!
Y’all need to check yourselves and get offa MM’s tip. Only one alpha dog in Bmore. Youngin got a long way to go to measure up to @SimplyAJ10
My screen is upside down. That’s why I misread Nate Silver’s statistics.
Next Tuesday vs. the Royals. All you can eat Picnic Porch seats. I’m buying!
Dave, you have Manny listed at 6’3″. He is clearly no taller than 6’2 1/4″
Dave,
Have you ever been to tri-state mall? What a dump.
Lebron is the Obama of basketball players.
Dave,
You should move to North Carolina. Rocky Mount is a dump, but Raleigh is a nice mid-sized city. Good shopping.
Machado’s plate mechanics are cool, calm and collected. Machado’s swing is compact and effortless and he swings hard enough without over swinging. Machado conserves his energy and his swing so that he always stays fresh and strong for every at bat (never looking overmatched). He looks like the type of player who will stay healthy and play everyday. His defensive play last year where he faked to first and then threw back to third for the surprise out showed his high baseball IQ and winning attitude. I drafted him on my fantasy team because I had a feeling he was going to be great. It seems like others are starting to agree. My favorite part of playing this game is to be ahead of all of you in my analysis so I get a player before he becomes too expensive. Machado is the real deal. Why else would they promote him so quickly? They must have seen what we see now. A special, intuitive 5 tool player.
Isnt one of the 5 tools speed?
you should write an article about Carlos Gomez too because he is a legitimate 5 tool gem
I stopped reading at “Hank Aaron, Johnny Bench, Roberto Alomar, and Joe Torre, to name a few.”
What a pathetically lazy comparison.
I agree, he is much better.
The improvement in Machado’s game this year has been incredible and well-rounded. I read an interesting article on it here: http://www.bsports.com/statsinsights/mlb/much-improved-manny-machado
attn Peter Angelos! Don’t Screw This Up!!!! Do whatever it takes to lock down Manny Machado’s contract and I will keep watching and coming to games regardless of the team’s standings. Guy is a beast.