Mike Fiers and Pitching Rattled

Perhaps the biggest problem with sports analysis is believing too strongly in one’s ability to understand the future. Perhaps the biggest problem with sports commentary is believing too strongly in one’s ability to understand the present. We’re always more than happy to play psychiatrist when it comes to discussing people we know and talk to every week, but then we allow this to carry over into sporting events, with completely unfamiliar people trying to navigate completely unfamiliar circumstances. We pretty much never know who a player is, and what he’s going through. That doesn’t stop people from analyzing the activity waves in his brain.

You know what I’m referring to, and it happens with every sport, in particular down the stretch and in the playoffs. Choking. Stepping up. Wilting. Clutch. So many people offer so many psychological explanations, yet, we never know whether there’s actually any truth. They’re just explanations after the fact, even though, in every competition, somebody has to win and somebody has to lose. So rarely can we actually speak to the psychology of sport. We don’t know when we’re observing a certain mental state, so we can’t analyze what that means.

Which brings us to Thursday night and Mike Fiers. Let’s say that professional athletes are mentally strong — mentally stronger than most. So let’s say it would take a lot for one to be rattled. What kind of event might rattle more than anything else? I’d volunteer a high hit-by-pitch. When you throw a ball that hits someone around the head, that goes beyond competitive adversity. So given what transpired, perhaps Fiers is an actual, observable example of a player playing while rattled. These examples are exceedingly rare things.

Yet, maybe it still didn’t matter. Turns out this stuff is complicated.

I know what happened, you know what happened, I’m not going to show you any video of what happened. Here is how I’ll choose to represent Fiers hitting Giancarlo Stanton in the face:

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fiersstanton

The game was delayed for several minutes. Stanton remained on the ground for several minutes, before being carted off. The batter’s area had to be tended to before play could resume, because Stanton had lost such a volume of blood. Fiers was present for everything, mostly responsible, mostly thinking about his responsibility. He stayed in the game, and eventually he faced Reed Johnson, who took over Stanton’s at-bat that was not, officially, a hit-by-pitch. Fiers was given a low-away target:

fiersjohnsontarget

Fiers then immediately hit Johnson with a pitch as high as the one he threw to Stanton.

fiersjohnson

Johnson struck out. Which means Stanton struck out, from a gurney. Fiers, officially, still hasn’t hit a batter this season. It was weird. But immediately, it was suggested that Fiers just wasn’t in control of himself after what he did to Stanton. After hitting Johnson he was overcome with emotions, and then after the game he remained shaken up. Here’s a brief video interview. A quote:

“I’ve never in my life experienced something like that. It was very hard for me to take in everything at the moment and come back and throw another pitch.”

It’s seemingly a straightforward thing to explain. Fiers hit Stanton, he felt awful, and then he couldn’t concentrate and he hit Johnson too. It feels like a clear example of a player being affected by being rattled. But what if it’s not so clear? It’s pretty much never so clear. I mean, look at the target for the pitch to Stanton:

fiersstantontarget

Fiers missed that target by as much as he missed the target for Johnson. And while the pitch to Johnson was similarly high, it was actually two feet closer to the plate, to the point at which it nearly crossed over the edge. Look at how much Johnson’s crowding the plate. It’s not an accident he has one of the highest hit-by-pitch rates in baseball history. It feels explicable, and earlier in the same inning, here’s a pitch to Jeff Mathis:

fiersmathis

In fact, from Brooks Baseball, here’s Fiers’ whole game, adjusting locations such that both lefties and righties are put on the same side of the plate:

fiersmarlins

That’s a whole lot of activity up and in. And this is a part of Fiers’ game. Among starters this year, Fiers has the fifth-highest rate of pitches thrown at least three feet off the ground. His high fastball gets fly balls and strikeouts, and sometimes that means Fiers buzzes the tower. Sometimes that means he gets closer. Pitches that’re too high don’t necessarily indicate a problem with Fiers, because he throws pitches like that normally. It’s just, those pitches usually don’t make contact with flesh. Batters take up only so much space, and they get to react to the ball coming in their direction.

So we can’t actually say whether Fiers hit Johnson in large part because he hit Stanton. To some degree it would make total sense, but given that there was a two-strike count, pitching up on purpose also would make total sense, and accidentally clipping Johnson would make total sense because pitchers do that all the time. Seemingly one of the most obvious examples of a player under-performing while being rattled is muddied by details. How mentally strong are these players, actually?

Let’s take a look at one more thing, with the help of Baseball Savant. So far this year, there have been 59 cases of a pitcher hitting a batter way up high, then remaining in the game. Not every one of those instances was as dark as the Stanton accident — few are — but a beanball is a beanball. Batters go down and get checked out, and pitchers think about the reality that they could accidentally change someone’s life. Where have the subsequent pitches gone? Like, what about the 59 pitches after the 59 pitches?

Putting lefties and righties on the same side, again:

pitchafterlocation

There’s not a single pitch up and in, like Fiers’ pitch to Johnson. There’s not much activity in off the plate, and there are plenty of pitches away. Two of these first pitches are at least a foot in from the middle of the plate, against a player-sample first-pitch average of 7%. A quarter of these pitches are at least a foot away from the middle of the plate, against a player-sample first-pitch average of 16%. The average pitch here is more outside by almost three inches. Despite the small sample, it reads like a response: after hitting a guy up and in, pitchers try to go a little more away. That’s probably about what we’d expect, and considering we’re selecting for a sample of guys who just hit batters around the skull, the execution isn’t awful. I’m not sure what results would’ve meant what in the plot above, but if anything, the theoretically-rattled pitchers have overcompensated by missing away.

This is such a small thing that one could try to use to support a big thing. Why does it matter how pitchers respond to ugly beanballs? If a pitcher can perform after something like that, it follows they’re probably not susceptible to having issues with pressure or crowd noise. Nothing’s more jarring than hitting a guy in the head. And if pitchers can’t perform well after something like that, or if they perform worse, then that opens the pressure door a crack. That opens analysis to considering emotional effects, for better or worse. To what degree are these highly-trained humans actually human in some of the most human moments?

Based on his written and vocal responses to the accident, Mike Fiers clearly has a human side. Yet it remains unclear whether his human side plays any role on the mound. What I can say is that Fiers immediately hitting Johnson is definitely evidence of something.





Jeff made Lookout Landing a thing, but he does not still write there about the Mariners. He does write here, sometimes about the Mariners, but usually not.

42 Comments
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Brian
11 years ago

Very interesting article, but I don’t understand the conclusion.

I’ve never been a pro, but hitting a batter sucks. Hitting a batter high triple-sucks. Even if you’ve pitched hundreds or thousands of innings, if you endanger someone’s life you’re going to be rattled.

In my rec league, I’ve been playing in for over a decade, I’m a control pitcher. I’ve probably hit seven or eight batters in about 300 innings. I hit one guy in the head. It was a scary experience. I promised myself to live down and away until I got through the inning.

I choked up real tight, determined to fire a fastball on the outer half. I hit the next batter on the first pitch.

Jason
11 years ago
Reply to  Brian

Target fixation, pure and simple.

Brian
11 years ago
Reply to  Jason

Also I realized after posting that my comment isn’t a very fangraphs-y comment but cannot find out how to delete it, so please be kind. Sorry guys. The article just reminded me of that experience.

Well-Beered Englishman
11 years ago
Reply to  Brian

It may not be FanGraphs-y but it is excellent-y.

Rick Ankiel
11 years ago
Reply to  Brian

C’mon Brian, really how hard is it to lose your control that quickly?

Steve Blass
11 years ago
Reply to  Rick Ankiel

Agreed. It’s not that hard to place a fastball in the zone, you know.

No, no, I don't like any of those!
11 years ago

Really, Fangraphs?

Rrr
11 years ago

Evidence! Of somethin’

Billy
11 years ago

I strongly second this motion.

TKDC
11 years ago

Why wasn’t Stanton a HBP? I have not and would rather not watch the video.

Anon21
11 years ago
Reply to  TKDC

I think he went around. (Also have no interest in seeing the video.)

Brian
11 years ago
Reply to  Anon21

He was adjudged by the ump to have gone around. Same thing for Johnson, who PH.

So actually, Fiers had 0 HBP and got a strikeout. Which is remarkable.

lewish
11 years ago
Reply to  Brian

As I noted below, isn’t the swinging strike on Johnson was a foul ball? No? Aren’t the hands part of the bat and so it seems to me it should have still been strike 2 on Johnson after he was hit?

Gerard
11 years ago
Reply to  TKDC

The umpire (foolishly, in my opinion) felt that Stanton’s swinging motion counted as follow through for a strike, instead of assigning the motion to that of an already effectively unconscious man who was no longer in control of his body finishing a motion that he could no longer stop due to the…well, you know the rest.

KCDaveInLA
11 years ago
Reply to  Gerard

Totally agree Gerald…it’s not like a case where a guy swings through a pitch that hits his hand or his wrist. I can’t believe the umpire would be so exacting.

For what it’s worth, I still would vote Stanton for MVP, unless Posey single-handedly propels the Giants to first place in the NL West.

munchtime
11 years ago
Reply to  KCDaveInLA

My guess is not that the ump is that exacting, as much as he saw the swing and called strike before he fully realized what was going on with Stanton.

Zen Madman
11 years ago
Reply to  TKDC

He swung at the pitch. That is to say, he started swinging, saw the ball coming at his face, and probably thought more about the ball coming at his face than he did about stopping his swing.

pft
11 years ago
Reply to  Zen Madman

Thats the way I saw it, he started swinging and then watched the ball come at his face as he continued his swing due to the momentum he had generated at the start. Its hard to stop and then reverse direction in that time. Completely fooled by some serious movement on that pitch. It must have looked like it was a meatball out of his hand and then moved at least 2-3 ft

M.S. Solstice
11 years ago
Reply to  Zen Madman

This is the strangest thing I’ve ever seen in baseball. At what point did this ball seem hittable?

My guess is he never even saw it and instincts took over. With two strikes, the instinct was probably “swing.” His next thought was probably “pain.”

Whether he’s safe or out really doesn’t matter. Why didn’t he duck, though?

Blootzkloof
11 years ago
Reply to  TKDC

That was a very bad decision by the umpire. The bat was on Stanton’s shoulder; he had no intention to swing.

vonstott
11 years ago
Reply to  Blootzkloof

Have you seen the video? Honest question, because you are clearly describing some other event.

I can sympathise that it seems unfair to give him a strike given what happened, but he clearly started the bat forward while he was thinking about batting before his focus became self-preservation. Bat on his shoulder? Really?

Steven
11 years ago

Yeah, people who didn’t watch the video didn’t realize that Johnson’s “HBP” looked like a swing and wasn’t very far in. Stanton’s on the other hand, looked like his bat only came through as he was getting out of the way. It should have been a HBP.

It’s clear that Fiers was not throwing at anybody, and the benches clearing only happened after some miscommunication: McGehee yelled at the umpire for calling Johnson’s “HBP” a swing; Fiers, who was in the same line of vision as the umpire, thought McGehee was yelling at him; Garrett Jones thought Fiers was yelling at McGehee unprovoked; and the benches cleared.

All in all, an awful five minutes or so.

Rrr
11 years ago
Reply to  Steven

Fiers should have shut the fuck up, honestly. Him jawing after throwing high and in to johnson was just really odd and completely inflamed a volatile situation.

Paul
11 years ago
Reply to  Rrr

Well, as long as we’re being biased, McGehee and Jones should have also shut up.

Nate F
11 years ago
Reply to  Rrr

I watched the whole thing as it played out in real time, and what I saw was Fiers’ brain falling apart.

When Stanton went down Fiers looked like he was fighting off tears and for the next 10-15 minutes that Stanton was being tended to he just went blank. I’m sure he had pretty heightened emotions, and after hitting Johnson, when he thought that the Marlins were suggesting that he was doing anything intentionally, that little hiccup of anger launched into full-blown insanity.

After the inning, Fiers was back in the dugout arguing with every teammate like the drunk guy at the party that everyone is just trying to tell to calm down.

I am emotionally invested in the Brewers, and Fiers is a huge factor in the Brewers’ future success. I hope he’s all right, but I really want to see his pitching trends over the rest of the season and beginning of next to see if he will shy away from pitching up and in.

Kman
11 years ago

There seems to be three reasons for a HBP: accident, retaliation, and intimidation. Accidents seem to be the leading cause, and to which I would assign Fiers. This is followed by retaliation, in which we all seen now and again. As to the last one, it is a shame we don’t have the pitch FX to conduct this analysis for Don Dyrsdale and Bob Gibson (just to name the most notorious duo).

Bad Bill
11 years ago
Reply to  Kman

Of that “notorious duo,” Gibson averaged one HBP per 158 batters faced, well below modern MLB average for HBP rate (one HBP per 114 PA) and not far from league average for his own time (usually around one HBP per 170 PA during the height of his career), and Drysdale hit one per 92 PA, nasty for his time but still far short of what today’s leading batter-plunkers do. Charlie Morton has hit one guy per 51 PA this year; Johnny Cueto has hit one per 67 PA over his whole career. The reputations of Drysdale and particularly Gibson as intimidating headhunters may have been sound enough in their time, but by today’s standards, not so much.

Nivra
11 years ago
Reply to  Bad Bill

We need HBP+ in order to compare eras. 😉

lewish
11 years ago

Can someone help me understand after Stanton went down there were 2 strikes, then the ump called Johnson’s swing a strike, but it hit his hand and I understand the ump said he was swinging and his hand is a part of the bat thing…but he hit the ball with his hand or the ball hit his hand while swinging, I thought that constituted a foul ball…the catcher didn’t catch a third strike, so I thought isn’t that just a foul ball and batter gets another pitch, whether he wanted one or not is another thing I suppose? How did you all see it? Seemed to me it should have been 2 strikes after Johnson was hit as well.

munchtime
11 years ago
Reply to  lewish

If the batter had 0 or 1 strike, it would have been a foul ball. With 2 strikes, the rule is different and the result is an out.

Nathaniel Dawson
11 years ago
Reply to  munchtime

Well that doesn’t seem to explain it. A foul tip with two strikes has to be caught by the catcher to result in a strikeout. Other wise, it’s just a foul ball and the count remains the same. Did the pitch hitting his hand not count as a foul ball, and not as a hit by pitch either?

lewish
11 years ago

Thanks, Munchtime I will have to look that up. I wasn’t aware of a difference in that count, but that would explain why everyone was good with the call.

pft
11 years ago

Neither batter made any attempt to move away from the ball. Stanton turned to face the ball so that it hit him squarely in the face. That was some serious movement on that 2 seamer, only 88 mph so plenty of reaction time (for MLB batters, not us mere mortals), but the movement caught the batters off guard.

pinch
11 years ago
Reply to  pft

are you… are you suggesting stanton put his face in front of that ball? and somehow chose to do that, or to not avoid that?

i don’t think that’s right

abc
11 years ago
Reply to  pinch

“the movement caught the batters off guard”

Reading comprehension.

bob
11 years ago

The ball is dead after hitting the batter. So if the batter swings and is hit on the hand it cannot be a foul ball, and if it happens to be the third stike he is out.

Nathaniel Hall
11 years ago
Reply to  bob

So if the ball is dead, why did Stanton’s “swing” count as a swing since he only really went around once he was hit and going down to the ground? Do swings still count if they occur after a ball is dead?

lewish
11 years ago
Reply to  Nathaniel Hall

rule 6.05(f) batter is out when he attempts to hit a thirds strike and the ball touches him…thanks munch time, but still to bob and nathaniels point…dead ball effectively ends the play and nothing happens beyond then…just seems like there is something in the rules about batters hands/bat that would help me understand better, but haven’t found it yet…got to go hope it gets clearer…thanks guys!

bob
11 years ago
Reply to  Nathaniel Hall

In this situation an inadvertent swing is treated the same as if the batter actually attempted to hit the ball. Maybe the controversy over this incident will lead to a modification or clarification of the rules

Footroo
11 years ago

In searching my memory bank I’m having trouble finding a better example of a pro athlete playing rattled than Mike Fiers. What upsets me about the incident is how poorly managed the situation was. It’s obvious Mike Fiers didn’t intend to hit Stanton. Nevertheless, he hit him square in the face could have easily killed him. I’m sure that thought crossed Fiers’ mind while he watched Stanton get carted off the field while the grounds crew cleaned up all the blood. I can say with a fair level of certainty that not only was Mike Fiers shaken, but he wasn’t interested in playing baseball. Yet Roenicke gave him the ball and Fiers hit the next guy. Next thing you know he’s got a full baseball team coming after him. Part of a manager’s job is protecting his players, and Roenicke did Fiers no favors by letting him stay in after Stanton.

BMac
11 years ago
Reply to  Footroo

Somehow, Fiers got 5 innings, a strikeout, and the win, while hitting two batters in a single at bat. Fantasy owners of Fiers are very happy with this result.

Managers do seem to be aware of the potential for a win, and I have seen managers leave starters in to complete 5 innings with the lead when they should really change pitchers if winning the game alone were the priority.

It’s such a shame that what might have been a really amazing start for Fiers (7 Ks in 4.2 innings, easily headed for double-digits) was marred by this incident. Poor Stanton! Not sure anyone could have got out of the way of that pitch; it just suddenly broke towards his head in the last few feet.

If Fiers starts that pitch outside the strike zone, it would have broke across the plate, a virtually unhittable pitch and likely a called strike three.

Juan
11 years ago
Reply to  BMac

Fiers was probably given a choice of whether or not to continue pitching, and was professional enough to fulfill his obligation. Unfortunately, Stanton had no choice, but was unable to continue. The incident(s) was clearly an accident. What I object to is when a batter hits a Homer, and then gets plunked the next time up (these pitchers should receive automatic suspension for one or more games). This appears to be happening more frequently. Not only is the batter at risk for getting intentionally hurt, but it’s an invitation for the opposing team to retaliate.