Milwaukee’s Got (Some) Talent
This past offseason, the Milwaukee Brewers took a risk that has paid conspicuously excellent dividends for the 2011 season, trading away the young and (generally) talented Lorenzo Cain, Alcides Escobar, Jeremy Jeffress, Brett Lawrie, and Jake Odorizzi for the slightly older and more reliably talented Zack Greinke and Shaun Marcum.
Greinke and Marcum, worth about six wins between them thus far in 2011, have been essential contributors to a Brewers team that, as of publication, is 7.5 games up in the NL Central and has something better than a 95% chance of making the postseason. It’s an extraordinary turnaround for a team that finished below .500 in 2010 and featured one of the NL’s worst starting-pitching staffs.
Of course, GM Doug Melvin’s offseason maneuvering wasn’t without its consequences. Not entirely loaded to begin with, the Brewer farm system was left largely barren after the departures, in particular, of Lawrie and Odorizzi. Baseball America included exactly zero Brewer prospects on its top-100 list and ranked Milwaukee 30th of 30 teams in terms of prospect-eligible talent. An intriguing piece by dougdirt at Minor League Ball placed the Brewers 29th overall — and last in terms of position players — using John Sickels’ prospect rankings. Adding injury (literally) to those (deserved) insults, the Brewers’ consensus top prospect entering the season, Mark Rogers, has (a) missed much of the season with a wrist problem, (b) pitched poorly when he has played, and was (c) recently suspended 25 games after a second positive test for a banned stimulant.
Though the Rogers Situation no doubt stings — and though the organization continues to lack high-upside talent in Double- and Triple-A — roster-expansion season reveals that the Brewers have some position players who both (a) were absent from notable preseason top-10 lists (BA, BP, Sickels, FanGraphs) and (b) profile as something better than replacement-level major leaguers.
Among the club’s recent call-ups, the most productive this season has been Taylor Green. Green, 24, slashed .336/.413/.583 (.360 BABIP) in 487 plate appearances at Triple-A Nashville. Though the BABIP is certainly high, his plate-discipline numbers (11.3% BB, 14.8% K) suggest a player who controls the strike zone nicely and have been similar throughout his entire minor-league career. In fact, the third baseman was actually the Brewers’ Minor League Player of the Year in 2007, a season in which he batted an almost identical .328/.407/.514 (.361 BABIP) — with an eerily similar 11.2% BB and 14.3% K — as a 20-year-old for West Virginia of the Sally League. Unfortunately, wrist problems plagued Green for some time after that, hurting his production and, as a result, his prospect status.
Logan Schafer’s story resembles Green’s pretty closely. Like Green, Schafer is 24. Like Green, he was the organization’s Minor League Player of the Year (in 2009). Like Green, injuries have been a problem for Schafer. And finally, as with Green, this season has represented a return to form for the center fielder. After recording all of 28 plate appearances in 2010 while dealing with what was eventually diagnosed as a sports hernia (and then a broken foot after that), Schafer slashed .315/.385/.439 in 446 plate appearances across three levels in the minors before his promotion this week. Schafer also controls the strike zone nicely, posting, for example, a 8.8% BB and 9.3% K in his 194 plate appearances at Triple-A Nashville.
While neither Green nor Schafer are likely to scale the heights of prospecting ecstasy like a Mike Trout or Bryce Harper, their performances this season suggest they could become contributors in the majors — i.e. an incredibly valuable thing. The changes in their respective prospect stati (plural of status?) add an interesting narrative layer to the Greinke and Marcum trade of the offseason. At the time, those trades were seen as a more or less cut-and-dried move by Melvin to sacrifice the semi-distant future of the franchise for the purposes of contending in 2011. And in Brett Lawrie’s rabid start to his own major-league career, we see the value of high-upside talent.
On the other hand, for two players absent from the eye of even the most able talent evaluators, Green and Schafer appear likely to produce at a level that many players from the bottom half of a top-100 prospect list never will. This isn’t, of course, to say that GMs should gut their farm systems post-haste, but rather that each situation carries with it a number of variables. Despite having lost some of the organization’s best prospects in a pair of aggressive offseason trades, the team has also found some prospects where there weren’t any before.
The author benefited greatly from Baseball America articles on Taylor Green and Logan Schafer.
Carson Cistulli has published a book of aphorisms called Spirited Ejaculations of a New Enthusiast.
“their performances this season suggest they could become contributors in the majors leagues”
It would be nice if Ron Roenicke was willing to give Green a few starts so we could actually see some contribution this season.
True.
Also, you’ve brought my attention to the fact that I used the phrase “majors leagues” — which, that’s not a thing.
plural of status is stat?s
Oops, I guess this site doesn’t recognize a long u. In any case, it is definitely not stati.
In fact, we don’t care for the long U at all. You should’ve heard the things it said about all our mothers.
I dont see Schafer or Green as anything more than bench, or AAAA type players. Green may have a shot as a lower division starter, but he and Schafer will already be 26 next year, and there is no reason to believe that either of them will turn into anything special.
Nice AAA numbers from both, but neither has a big time asset in the tool box to believe otherwise.
I would be willing to take a chance on giving these guys more significant roles for 2012. Milwaukee has done pretty well with being able to plug lineup holes these past few years. I tend to trust their way of evaluating from that standpoint. They might be able to dig up enough production from these guys to get by next year if the rotation realizes its potential…
Maybe you could swing something for a blocked prospect like Yonder Alonso (doubtful), or heck, even Lars Anderson, to take over 1B. Billy Butler could be nice, but I don’t know if the Brewers would have enough for anyone of significant value/projection…
If there isn’t a reasonably tangible way of filling Fielder’s shoes heading into next year, they should turn their attention to making the starting rotation even stronger next season for the last hurrah. You might be able to put together an unlikely package for something decent with aged prospects like Gamel, Morris, Green, Schafer, and Rogers sitting around.
And this is based on your gut?
Based on 15 years of scouting experience, and the fact that the consensus on both of these players isnt very spectacular.
Getting Greinke was huge for the Brewers.
You really love those parentheses, don’t you?
given the dearth of talent in the minor leagues to start the year, wouldn’t you think making a top 10 list would be akin to throwing darts?
How do they profile defensively?
Nice work here
You made Caleb Gindl cry! I hope you’re happy!
Is Marcum really worth trading prospects for, especially if the farm system is bereft of young talent? Ostensibly Marcum is a better pitcher than me this year (by actual results, measured by ERA, and FIP; although our xFIP are similar with him possessing a .25 advantage), simply because he has a lower FB/HR%, but we both possess similar ground ball rates, with me having a slightly lower GB%.
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I posted this eariler:
Does anyone know why Shaun Marcum has a higher strikeout rate in 2011 as Edwin Jackson.
Marcum 2011: 7.18 K/9, BB/9 2.55, HR/9 0.90. GB% 36.3%, FB/HR% 7.8%, FBv 87.6 mph
Jackson 2011: 6.68 K/9, BB/9 2.75 HR/9 0.81. GB% 45.6%, FB/HR% 9.4 %, FBv 94.7.
For comparison with ground balls and home runs, I, Ted Lilly, has a similar GB% (34.7%), but my FB/HR% (12.4%) is higher than Marcum. I think luck explains why Marcum isn’t a right-handed version of myself. My hypothesis for Marcum’s relatively high strikeout rate for his velocity is that he reduces his GB% in exchange for more Ks. However, Edwin Jackson doesn’t have to trade a high strikeout rate for a high GB%, because he has the inherent talent (velocity) to miss bats.
I think it is the difference between going from the AL East to the NL Central.
To me, one of the greatest benefits of those players is their positions, assuming they can stick in their respective roles.
Schafer is a great situational defender for when the batter coming up is known to hit balls directly at center fielders’ heads.
I’m interested in why there’s such a large discrepancy between the two versions of WAR w.r.t. Zack Greinke. The fangraphs version – which, I assume, relies heavily on xFIP and more predictive measures – has him at 3.4. Baseball Reference has him at 1.
That’s a pretty substantial difference. One of these figures is debatably worth trading the farm, the other most certainly is not.
Off topic,
Regarding the Hall of Fame, I prefer Baseball Reference WAR to have greater consideration than FanGraphs WAR, since it emphasizes what has happened on the field (presumably it is heavily weighted towards ERA instead of xFIP), rather than the pitcher’s raw ability. In the long run, it should be expected that ERA = xFIP, so there should not be a large difference for a Hall of Fame candidate (pitcher) who would have a long career.
Fangraphs WAR uses FIP not xFIP
If I were a Brewer fan, I’m not sure I’d be thrilled about having traded Lawrie for Marcum, post season run or no post season run.
As a Brewers fan I am thrilled.
You should be really ticked off. The trade was heavily balanced in favor of the Blue Jays to begin with, and with the way the Brewers have played this year, adding Marcum hasnt really made the difference. So when the guy leaves after next year (or even worse, Melvin signs him to an unwarranted extenion) while Lawrie piles up all star seasons, maybe you will then realize what the fault of having a short term plan really is worth.
Be as thrilled as you can for the time being, because if and when the Brewers get eliminated from the 2011 season, it could be the start (post-2012) of a long, mediocre road ahead…
I heard this crap in 2008 after the CC trade. That CC trade proved prospects are now overrated. WINNING blows away collecting hope for some undetermined future date…
That was an even trade, even considering Lawrie’s upside. It a a huge WIN for the Brewers if they go deep into the playoffs. It’s about WINNING!! not about collecting HOPE.
Lawrie is already almost outperforming Marcum this year, and he only has 100 AB’s. You might want to re-examine the effect this trade has on the franchise in 2013 when the team is back to winning 73 games a year for a long stretch, and Lawrie is piling up 30 HR 100 RBI seasons.
Bottom line is that Doug Melvin gave up a difference maker in Lawrie, for a nice piece for one season of hopes in Marcum. No Marcum, Brewers still make ’11 playoffs.
We have the core of our lineup and pitching staff, minus Fielder, locked up for next year. I am not giving up on re-signing Prince yet. There will be extra money in the coffers from the playoff runn
Taylor Green is going to be a line drive machine, if the early results are any indication.
Our locked up strength was position players, but we were missing a number 1 and 2/3 starter. You can’t get those assets cheaply. I think Melvin did a great job of turning his available assets into pennant.
I do not see us making the playoffs without Marcum. Before the season, could you have predicted an improved Wolf and Narveson? Here is what the rotation would have been: Greinke, Gallardo, Wolf, Narveson and potentially Capuano. I am still worried about Cappy’s arm, even though he has had a serviceable year. I definitely prefer the current rotation to the alternative.
I can tell you with 100% certainty that a HUGE majority of Brewer fans agree with Melvin’s approach to deal Lawrie and Escobar, et al. Small market teams like the Brewers don’t always have long windows to win, so you take it while you can. As we have seen with the Sabathia trade, prospects like Matt LaPorta are often a gamble in themselves.
As for Green and Schafer, while neither profiles to be a star, there is value in guys that are moderately above replacement level. They aren’t going to be a Braun or a Weeks, but winning teams also need guys like McGehee and Morgan. Obviously, they are going to lose a lot when Prince (presumably) leaves, but Green especially gives them some options to fill a spot with a decent player.
This is why some owners wisely keep the keys to the baseball franchise far, far away from stat geeks, they don’t know how to win and the goal is to win. Stat geeks think the object is to make deals much like a venture capitalist. Winners need to run the franchise more like a traditional bank.
Good to see the Crew might have something left in the tank after this splurge- be sad to see them drop too precipitously. In other news, thank you, Mr. Cistulli, for again toning it down for a non-roto post. It’s nice to see that you can work both sides of the plate, as it were: comedic and more straight-up.
STAT GEEK: What are the Brewers going to do after 2014 at 2b when Weeks leaves? or RF when Hart is gone? or 2015 when Gallardo walks? Oh my god!!! Sky is falling!!!
These clowns would never win a ring as bed wetting GMs.
The Brewers didn’t really have a terrible farm system like those scores suggest, they had a very young farm system so the talent is just far out which is fine because they have almost the entire team locked up for next year and most of it for at least 3 years. The only regret they’ll have is if Lawrie ends up being the next Braun which very well might happen and even that isn’t a huge deal if they can make it past the first round of the playoffs and get the extra revenue that comes with a deeper playoff run.