NLDS Game Three Review: Philadelphia

I’ll admit it: I lost this debate to the inimitable Carson Cistulli. What can I say, I was no master debater back in the day, nor had I ever tried the Lincoln-Douglas format. Excuses, excuses, excuses. I know.

What was so flustering was that the Phillies felt like the right pick. But when the numbers were parsed, there were few numbers that were definitively in favor of the team from Philadelphia. Carson was right – overall WAR, UZR, wOBA, they all pointed towards Dusty Baker’s team. I was forced to tickle the numbers until they laughed the right name, and was called out on it. The strange thing? Perhaps the actual, you know, real-life games proved me correct.

Let’s review my seemingly untenable positions:

1) The Phillies’ starting rotation is too strong for the Reds.

Well, like, duh. Not only did all the numbers show it before they played, but their performances did as well. Three games and the new Big Three produced 23 innings, 4 runs allowed (3 earned), 22 strikeouts, 2 walks, and 30/18 groundballs to flyballs. That’s “pretty good,” and it minimized the edge the Reds had in the pen. This edge probably was enough to ignore many of the other edges that went Red, but it’s unclear why that would be, given the pie chart that goes into every game. More on that later.

2) The Phillies’ lineup is deeper.
Defining something like ‘deeper’ is tough, but it does seem that the Phillies lineup was more balanced. Facing Raul Ibanez and Carlos Ruiz as the seventh and eighth hitters is far less exciting than facing Orlando Cabrera and either of the Reds’ catchers, right? Philadelphia hit .212 for the series, and the Reds .124. Batting average isn’t a great indicator of course, but in this case it does a quick-and-dirty job of portraying the differences between the teams’ lineups and how they fared in this short series. But again, bullet point one is probably at fault here.

3) The Phillies’ bullpen is better, specifically at closer.
Well, this one didn’t necessarily go my way, but only because the Phillies’ starters didn’t give em much of a chance to show their mettle. They pitched 4 innings total in the three games, and allowed no runs and 1 hit, with 2 strikeouts and 2 walks. The Reds? 10 innings with 4 runs, (1 earned), 8 hits, 7 strikeouts and 4 walks. Advantage; some shade red, but mostly made irrelevant by bullet point one.

The last idea, and it probably doesn’t deserve a bullet point because it’s not something rooted in fancy baubles like “theory” or “proof,” held that perhaps the Phillies owned the star power over the Reds. (Another possibly un-definable term in my favor? Awesome.) But we’ve now seen Roy Halladay and Cole Hamels shine bright while Roy Oswalt, Chase Utley and Ryan Howard got the job done – and on the other side of the ledger, the Reds failed to receive a singular, extraordinary performance from any of their main players. It’s not very ‘Sabre’ to say this, but is it possible that in the slimmed-down post-season things like a deep roster, good defensive pieces and nice middle relief become a little less impressive or important?

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Oh, the game? Well, the game was all Hamels. There’s not much else to say when he’s got the changeup dancing like that. That, some good defensive play from Shane Victorino, and a solo home run from Utley, and you’ve basically got enough to say “ballgame” and “series.”

Dusty Baker got seven innings with one earned run (two total) by using Johnny Cueto and Homer Bailey just about perfectly, and made the most of his bullpen the rest of the way – and still lost. Though the Reds lineup may have showed better regular-season wOBAs, in this small sample, only Brandon Phillips and Jay Bruce were able to bat above the Mendoza line. Baker may have made some bad tactical moves over the series, and Dave may yet come with some heat in that area, but it seems the players played out this best-of-five and the Reds came up short. It was still a great year for them and they should be proud of the larger sample size.





With a phone full of pictures of pitchers' fingers, strange beers, and his two toddler sons, Eno Sarris can be found at the ballpark or a brewery most days. Read him here, writing about the A's or Giants at The Athletic, or about beer at October. Follow him on Twitter @enosarris if you can handle the sandwiches and inanity.

86 Comments
Oldest
Newest Most Voted
B
15 years ago

Just a small edit, I think you meant Brandon Phillips not Scott Rolen.

NEPP
15 years ago

Cole Hamels is really good. He simply dominated a great offense despite a tiny strikezone.

Very impressive.

Nick
15 years ago

Cole Hamels’ celebration has proved to me that he has finally entered manhood.

NEPP
15 years ago
Reply to  Nick

The WS and NLCS MVP trophys were enough for you?

Nick
15 years ago
Reply to  NEPP

Naw.

NEPP
15 years ago
Reply to  NEPP

Looking at Cole’s resume, you see a lot of impressive numbers and achievements. Its pretty hard to realize that he’s just 26 and still getting better as a pitcher. He’s easily having his best season yet.

NEPP
15 years ago

The most surprising aspect of the series for the Reds has to be the subpar performance by the heart of their lineup: Votto & Rolen were 2 for 21 in the 3 games. Give the Phillies big 3 alot of credit in neutralizing them.

The Reds will be back strong next year and losing like this is actually a good experience for them. They won’t be just happy to be there in 2011. With their pitching and young position players a year older, they will be a very dangerous team next year.

B N
15 years ago
Reply to  NEPP

“they will be a very dangerous team next year.”

Watch out! They’ve got a knife!

OTerry
15 years ago

In the post game interview, Hamels was cool as ice: not out of breath, not talking crazy hyperbole, not particularly sweaty. He had wicked stuff today, and he knew it.

Jason B
15 years ago
Reply to  OTerry

He’s ALWAYS crazy sweaty…

Brian
15 years ago

Safe to say the best team in the series lost. Can’t like the Phillies chances against either the Braves or Giants in the next round, what with their average lineup and suspect bullpen.

Mike
15 years ago
Reply to  Brian

This has to be snark.

Jeff
15 years ago
Reply to  Brian

The Phillies’ aging veteran lineup will be exposed against no matter who they play. Organizations like the sabermetric-heady Mariners have a much better idea of how to get consistent productivity out of their offensive players in a cost-efficient manner.

Giants in 5 in the NLCS.

Nick
15 years ago
Reply to  Jeff

And even if (by some miracle) the Phillies get lucky ONCE AGAIN and actually win the World Series (God forbid) we all can at least trash their fans, manager, GM or Ryan Howard!

Jeff
15 years ago
Reply to  Jeff

No matter what the Phillies do from here on out, the Reds, Braves, and Giants can all take pride in their overall superiority over a much a greater sample size.

CamDawg, think you can petition Selig to have the entire NL playoff field parade down Broad Street in the unlikely event hell freezes over and the Phillies stumble their way into another World Series win?

DavidCEisen
15 years ago
Reply to  Jeff

Yeah, stupid Dave Cameron ranking the Phillies as the 9th best organization in baseball–ahead of the Reds and Giants and one back from the Braves. I’ve been as critical as anyone towards the rankings, but a lot of people embarrass themselves in trying to prove Dave wrong.

From Cameron’s write-up: “They should be the favorites to win the NL East, though the Braves are catching up very quickly.” Sounds fairly spot on.

bill
15 years ago
Reply to  Jeff

I think this was more getting at the Rockies being called the best team in the NL about 3 weeks ago.

DavidCEisen
15 years ago
Reply to  Jeff

The Rockies weren’t mentioned, the Mariners were. I was hiking all of September, but I doubt Cameron called the Mariners the best team in baseball during that time.

bflaff
15 years ago

Sending Hamels back out for the 9th instead of playing by the book and going to the closer is typical of the little things that Charlie Manuel does right, over and over. The starting pitching made things particularly easy, of course, but he didn’t get in the way. He had a great series.

NEPP
15 years ago
Reply to  bflaff

Hamels was rolling. Regardless of his pitchcount (not all that high going into the 9th), he was well rested, had no high stress innings and he wont pitch again for almost 10 days. The Reds hadn’t solved him over the first 8 innings so keeping him in was a no-brainer.

Besides which, the other option included sending Lidge out there to face the heart of the Reds lineup including Votto (who hits Lidge quite well along with all RHPs). No question UC made the right decision.

Basically, after a ton of rest, Hamels threw 119 low stress pitches and he’ll have a bunch more time off before his next start.

george
15 years ago
Reply to  bflaff

Unlike pretenders, well, novices named Bochy and Washington

Anon.
15 years ago
Reply to  george

I cant stand Bochy…

NEPP
15 years ago
Reply to  george

I dont know…I kinda like Bochy. There was that great game earlier this year against the Phillies where he pulled Lincecum in the 9th based on pitch count while Lincecum was absolutely rolling. Brian Wilson (A guy who the Phillies have OWNED in his career) promptly blew the Save and the Phillies won.

So, Bochy has that going for him. Bochy, like Dusty Baker in the NLDS, would be the Phillies greatest weapon in a Phillies/Giants matchup.

bflaff
15 years ago

And ffs, Phils fans have to stop jamming every post with cri de coeurs about organizational rankings and a lack of respect for the Phillies. It’s not really the time or the place. Just enjoy the champagne and the pennants. The topic can be revisited in the spring.

Brian
15 years ago
Reply to  bflaff

Nah this is a good spot for it. Because #6org continues to disrespect the team right through each series. Because the Phillies front office says particular things that go against what #6org believes in, he considers the Phillies front office to be stupid, and this entire experiment to be the luckiest thing ever. When in fact, many of the things the Phillies have done are quite smart.

DT
15 years ago
Reply to  Brian

like trading cliff lee for peanuts? had the kept lee they wouldn’t have needed to get oswalt, which would have saved them a few minor leaguers, of even get oswalt if they felt greedy and roll out a rotation of halladay, hamels,lee and oswalt which basically means an E-Z pass to the WS no matter what the offense does as long as they score just a few runs. having a good team doesn’t excuse poor managerial decisions.

neuter_your_dogma
15 years ago
Reply to  Brian

Seems like all MLB thinks Cliff Lee is worth a bag of peanuts, given what teams have received for Lee. And shipping Lee to the AL and obtaining Oswalt might be a better deal than keeping Lee and having Oswalt go to a team like Atlanta.

Jamie
15 years ago
Reply to  Brian

DT:

you’re a dummy.

trade lee and get Halladay for below market for 3+ years and have the ability to get Oswalt for 2+ years.

or keep Lee and get NO Halladay and NO Oswalt.

dls
15 years ago
Reply to  Brian

So the day after you win the nlds, you can’t wait to whine about something Dave wrote weeks or even months ago. To make it even better, your whining doesn’t even present any evidence of what dave said, why you disagree with it, and why you are right.

Please, just don’t post next time you get such an urge.

Anon
15 years ago
Reply to  Brian

LOL Philly inferiority complex. Go piss on your own fans some more.

DT
15 years ago
Reply to  Brian

@Jamie how do they not get halladay? explain to me, since from ACTUALLY looking at the trade they didn’t need to give up cliff lee to get halladay. They just did it for the sake of cost of not paying the guy for a year, i mean the phillies are totally a small market team right?

Even if they wanted to save money they could have easily gotten a better return for Cliff Lee. What they got for one of the TOP 5 pitcher in the league was downright a joke. Then mid season they realize they need pitching and went to get oswalt. The problem would have never come up had they kept Lee. Hell even with Oswalt they still have to pay him 14 million guaranteed which makes the idea of trading lee to save money moot. How is that good thoughtful Managing? It’s not…it’s very short-sighted and getting Oswalt was basically covering their ass for trading lee for nothing.

Jimmy the Greek
15 years ago
Reply to  Brian

DT: Please address the fact that they control Oswalt for next year as well, while Lee would have been gone as a FA.

Did they make a mistake trading Lee? Probably. Did they make up for it by getting Oswalt? Yup. That’s about all you can ask for out of a Front Office. Not perfection. But being able to rectify mistakes and continually make the team better.

Now beat it, you dummy.

DavidCEisen
15 years ago
Reply to  Brian

Jamie, they didn’t need to trade Lee to get Halladay. They claimed to need to dump the salary, yet he was making less than Blanton and they later traded for Oswalt (who makes more money).

Calling people a dummies is juvenile–especially when you don’t understand what happened.

neuter_your_dogma
15 years ago
Reply to  Brian

I too thought sending Lee to the AL for prospects was a bad idea…until the genius of the plan revealed itself – send Lee to the AL and trade for Oswalt, thus depleting the NL of two pitchers that can hurt your team.

Ahh Ruben, you are truely a Goldberg machine.

Jimmy the Greek
15 years ago
Reply to  Brian

Again, was trading Lee a mistake? Probably.

But every single front office in the league makes mistakes. You know what Amaro did that many don’t? He went out and tried to fix it. It seems to me like people grasp at the Lee trade for a reason to call Amaro an idiot, without acknowledging that he did EXACTLY what you want someone to do after making a mistake–recognize it and try and fix it.

Now, the Ryan Howard extension? That’s not defensible. I won’t even bother.

DT
15 years ago
Reply to  Brian

@ jimmy so you agree that trading lee is a mistake and you call me a dummy? okay right…that makes sense. Jamie thought they needed to trade lee to get both oswalt and hallday when the in reality they didn’t, i’m just correcting him/her. i never called Amuro an idiot, i just said he wasn’t the genius some phillies fan make him out to be, has made some bad decision and got away with it.
Hell I didn’t even bother to mention that howard contract.
so “beat it dummy” as you would say.

DT
15 years ago
Reply to  Brian

also you one of my points on the lee trade is that they could have gotten so much more for cliff lee. Yankees and the Rangers offered up their best prospects for half a year of lee, now imagine how much Amuro could have gotten if he bothered to play the field a bit more for a whole year of Cliff Lee. Look i have no problem with him trading lee then getting oswalt, but the return he got for lee was down right laughable.

Jamie
15 years ago
Reply to  Brian

you guys are missing the point of COST CERTAINTY. they traded lee because they could lock up Blanton and Halladay for 3 years a piece. while Blanton is definitely not of Lee’s caliber he’s a very good #3/#4 who can win you a lot of ball games. i’d rather have 3 years of Blanton than 1 year of Lee. While trading for Halladay, Toronto ate a lot of this years salary which gave them the opportunity to deal for Oswalt(the Astro’s ate a lot of this years salary). none of this could of happened while keeping Lee for 1 more year. they were able to lock up people for several years. this is something that Lee wasn’t able to commit to(wanted to test FA). If they don’t move Lee then i don’t know if they would be capable of trading for halladay/oswalt/resigning blanton.

Spoilt Victorian Child
15 years ago
Reply to  bflaff

Yeah this really needs to stop. As a Phillies fan it is just mortifying.

don
15 years ago

Agreed. The Phillies have made some good decisions, and some that looked bad at the time which paid off. They’re a very good team, especially when they don’t have to use a #5 starter or middle relief. It’s the nature of baseball that almost no one is ever a runaway favorite. The Reds might have been overrated a little by their record because the NL Central was simply abominable this year, but they weren’t a bad team. This #6org stuff is as grating as NY Post Yankees headlines.

Anon2
15 years ago

If we’re just judging the great teams based on regular season success over a large sample size, why play the playlets?

The Phillies had their regular 8 for about two dozen games in the regular season. Give them some credit for still getting to 97 wins.

Anon2
15 years ago

Stupid iPhone editing. I meant why play the playoffs, not playlets.

B N
15 years ago

“It was still a great year for them and they should be proud of the larger sample size.”

Is this like how the Patriots should have patted themselves on the back for winning 18 straight games in 2007?

neuter_your_dogma
15 years ago
Reply to  B N

Yes, the Patriots should do some back patting. That was a great year.

B N
15 years ago

Tom Brady: “Good job guys! No need to sulk, Randy Moss! We didn’t win this one, but we’re still 18-1 and that’s a great record. Plus, we set a lot of touchdown records together. All told, I think we should be very proud of our entirely performance this season! Time to crack open some champagne and let the good times roll!”

B N
15 years ago

Re: “Carson was right – overall WAR, UZR, wOBA, they all pointed towards Dusty Baker’s team.”

The answer to this issue is quite clear. We have 3 linear statistics that are expressly calculated to be effective over a long season with a variety of opponents that vary greatly in quality and team make-up. … And then we reach the postseason. And all of a sudden a few things happen:

1. You play better teams. You’re tough? Well, so are they. Most teams don’t reach the postseason unless they’re very good in at two things (ex. Giants), or they’re above average at doing everything (Twins). Good teams may nullify advantages you had against worse teams.

2. They scout you more. You’ve got a whole season to go on and their front office will spend incredible amounts of times trying to find any advantage. The Red Sox and Tampa Bay are particularly notable for this, in my book. I’ve seen both of them use trick plays- exploiting patterns in baserunning or fielder habits to pick off a runner or eke out one extra base in a tight game. Even for teams not quite that advanced, you can still expect them to exploit every weakness in a hitter’s swing. That guy who hit 20 HR in the regular season but can’t lay off breaking balls? Yah. You might as well bench him.

3. Smaller rotations. This is a big difference. A team with junky #4 and #5 starters may really struggle to reach the postseason, but once they get there they can practically throw those guys out. At maximum, your #4 guy may pitch 1 game each series. And even that depends on scheduling. This is probably part of why the Twins can’t seem to get past the first rounds. Their rotations tend to be deep, rather than lopsided.

4. Individual weaknesses matter. I’ve been calling for a long time to see metrics about how hitters and pitchers fare against different types and/or quality of opponents. In the postseason, this is really all that matters. You might as well throw out any stats accumulated from hitting long relievers or 5th starters for batters. In fact, you might as well throw out all stats from facing the Pirates, the Nationals, or the Orioles too. In a short series, your batters will not see a single one of those guys. Pitchers have similar issues. Not good against Ryan Howard? Well, you’re going to face him 3 times this game. Good luck.

The moral of the story is, at postseason time you can take your linear weights and throw them out the window. They’re describing an entirely different situation.

If we want to have a better idea of postseason performance, a good start would be the have some metrics for how hitters handle tougher pitchers (and vice versa). Basically, to predict postseason performance you’re going to want to truncate the distribution of opposition they face or else you’re saying that somehow striking out 3 Pirates pitchers is somehow related to striking out Ryan Howard 3 times. And that’s just plain misleading.

Jimmy the Greek
15 years ago
Reply to  B N

There’s also the issue that the Reds were generally healthy for the entire season, while the Phillies were far from it (and the Phils added Oswalt).

So comparing the teams over the whole season was going to skew it in favor of the Reds. The Phillies team that just swept the Reds was NOT the Phillies team that compiled those season-long stats.

neuter_your_dogma
15 years ago

Well done Mr. Sarris!

Jimmy the Greek
15 years ago
Reply to  B N

These are all good points, and I think the first one in particular would have shed some light on the Phillies-Reds matchup. The Reds had a significantly below-.500 record against playoff-contending teams. The Phillies were above .500.

Basically, a lot of the Reds’ success was beating up on the dregs of the NL Central. The Phillies, while not world-beaters most of the year, still managed to get the best record in baseball while beating other good teams (see their record against other good teams). This information had to be worth something.

Jross
15 years ago

Forgot an Astrix for having the most home games this year.

Abreutime
15 years ago

Yes. How could he forget an “Astrix?” People may get the wrong idea about his intellect.

bestteamloses
15 years ago

Can’t wait for Dave to BRING THE HEAT

bakes
15 years ago

this clearly means the Phillies have the best organization in baseball its not like they just gave out one of the worst contracts in baseball this year. Also we all know the rating of the organizations fangraphs did earlier had no basis for future events after this year. Fuck it, why even play the games just give the Phillies the trophy now. Heres hoping for the new #1 org. Suck it slowly Cameron.

bestteamloses
15 years ago

Sometimes the smart teams lose

Sometimes the dumb teams win

Sometimes you win 61 games, trade for a violent criminal and then get fired

AL BEast
15 years ago

Cinci would be the 5th best team in the AL East.

Anon
15 years ago
Reply to  AL BEast

This is relevant.

Andrew
15 years ago

Is it really shocking that after reading on this site all season (starting with the oganization rankings) how the Phillies are a team on the verge of disaster that Phillies fans brag a little extra when things go well? Even if those the-Phillies-could-and-should-collapse-in-the-following-14-ways articles come with a two sentence caveat that they’re (barely) the favorites, the fans can still argue with the underlying logic of those articles. Perhaps it would be better to continue those discussions in the threads of the articles that they’re actually arguing against (organization rankings, Cameron’s preview for this series) but I’m guessing no one continues to post in those articles, and there’s more evidence now that the articles were incorrect.

If you just want the Phillies fans to just drop the argument because it’s old, then the response should be “you’re right, we concede” rather than “you’re still wrong, go away” (as has been the response). Anybody’s going to continue arguing against that for the reasons they initially argued; I’m guessing similar reasons that the people keep arguing Cameron’s side of things, that arguing about baseball is fun.

Anon
15 years ago
Reply to  Andrew

Sigh.

It’s sad that people STILL don’t understand the org. rankings. You clearly didn’t get the “underlying logic” of the articles.

bflaff
15 years ago
Reply to  Anon

We do seem to take one man’s subjective opinion way too seriously.

Andrew
15 years ago
Reply to  Anon

I think the org ranking series was attempting to determine how well a team would do on the field over the next 5 years (as opposed to their performance in 5 years, as is a common misinterpretation). The Phillies performance and attendance (as it will correspond to revenue and payroll) this year was among the best in major league baseball. This gives them a very good start to being a better-than-ninth best team over the relevant five-year period. Therefore, this season’s performance is stong evidence they were rated too low in the orgainzation rankings. I understand the series quite well.

The point of my post though was that some people seemed exasperated by the argument and that arguing about baseball should be fun.

RJ
15 years ago
Reply to  Anon

Was it really a 5 year period? If so that seems way too long. With free agency and injuries it is impossible to predict how good most teams will be 5 years from now. They’ll get some right but I’d wager a farm that they would get most wrong.

The middle to small market teams will be losing too many players to free agency by the end of that window. If anything the rankings should be no more than 3 years.

bflaff
15 years ago
Reply to  Andrew

The Phillies are (and should continue to be) the best team in the NL by a significant margin, since no one in the NL has their combo of on field talent, huge revenues, and front office competence. The fact that this still hasn’t sunk in fully after 4 division crowns and 2 pennants is unfortunate, but you’re dealing with some pretty immobile preconceived notions.

BlackOps
15 years ago
Reply to  bflaff

“front office competence”

Can we wait to claim Amaro is good, or even decent?

bflaff
15 years ago
Reply to  bflaff

The team won a pennant in his first year as GM, and in the second it had the best record in baseball. What’s the evidence that you’re waiting for, since you’re apparently unmoved by results?

BlackOps
15 years ago
Reply to  bflaff

Results from a team built by…. someone else.

John
15 years ago

Bad GM Amaro builds Phillies around starting pitching.

Phillies sweep series based on strength of starting pitching against “offensive powerhouse.” Imagine that.

The overreactions on both sides are evident, but can we finally give some credit where it’s due?

bflaff
15 years ago
Reply to  John

Probably not.

Anon
15 years ago
Reply to  John

Wait, Ruben Amaro built this Phillies team?

Silly me, I thought it was Pat Gillick who did all the hard work. All Amaro had to do was trade away all the prospects for a couple players.

NEPP
15 years ago
Reply to  Anon

Getting them Oswalt and Halladay for multiple years was a pretty good bargain. None of the prospects they gave up will kill them in the long run.

bflaff
15 years ago
Reply to  Anon

If RAJ had stood pat with Gillick’s crew, the Phillies would be sitting at home right now watching “My Name is Earl” reruns in their underpants.

NEPP
15 years ago
Reply to  Anon

But they would be “competitive” in theory in 2013/2014 with guys like Carrasco, Drabek and Happ in their primes. Amaro somewhat sacrificed some long-term viability for having 3 great pitchers in the near term.

Both Carrasco and Drabek look to be solid middle rotation arms and Happ already is a solid 3/4. However, Rube knew that having 3-4 middle rotation arms is not the formula for winning the WS.

Abreutime
15 years ago
Reply to  Anon

The Phils’ prospects, if Brown is included, are still in the top-10 in baseball. I thought I remember they were ranked around 6 immediately following the trade deadline, but I don’t remember whose publication it was.

don
15 years ago
Reply to  Anon

Happ is not up and coming. He’s older than Hamels. He’s not bad, and he certainly still could improve, but it’s certainly not out of the realm of possibility that we’ve seen his best.

I feel like the Phillies did what most fans would want their teams to do. They were a middle of the road team, payroll wise, until they had a bunch of home grown talent get good at the same time. They paid those guys instead of blowing up the team Marlins style, the payroll shot up, and they traded prospects for a few more key pieces to put that them “over the hump” and give them a good shot at playoff success for a few at the possible expense of the mid 2010s. They’ve only been a high payroll team for 2-3 years and it’s hard to know if they’ll still be once the big Howard/Utley/Halladay contracts run out.

They’re short on prospects in the high minors but they’re as talented as anybody in A ball.

neuter_your_dogma
15 years ago
Reply to  Anon

No love for Ed Wade’s contributions?

NEPP
15 years ago
Reply to  Anon

I should clarify, I mean that Drabek and Carrasco are up and coming while Happ would still be in his prime in a few years. Poor sentence structure on my part. I’m well aware of Happ’s current age.

Jimmy the Greek
15 years ago

Maybe if the Phils had finished 70-92 this year, they would rank higher in next year’s Org. Rankings.

Look, we all know the Phillies are getting older and have traded away a bunch of prospects recently. But Flags Fly Forever, and Amaro/Gillick are getting more out of this core group than most organizations get in decades, even with the multiple “rebuilding” projects that Fangraphs’ writers love. So even if you want to say the future is “bleak”, that gets discounted by the fact that this is arguably the greatest era in the history of the franchise, and one of the great 4-year stretches by any team in NL History–only the 04-06 Cards, 93-99 Braves, 76-78 Phillies, and 70-72 Pirates have made three straight NLCS appearances.

Chops
15 years ago

“Master debater” I hope I’m not the only one who got this.

Chops
15 years ago
Reply to  Eno Sarris

Your secrets are safe with me, Eno

neuter_your_dogma
15 years ago
Reply to  Chops

I used it in my intital comment to the original article. No one laughed then either.

neuter_your_dogma
15 years ago

If “great” mind means remembering my 8th grade debate humor, then yes.

B
15 years ago

Eno, I mentioned this earlier in the series, but Dewan +/- didn’t love the Reds nearly as much as UZR did. It actually favored the Phillies defense by quite a bit even with Howard/Ibanez dragging them down a bit.

To me I feel like as a statistic community overall we get sucked into just picking one stat for each measurement and using it as the end all be all. To me it would make more sense to try to use all of the available resources to grade the players. Maybe weight Dewan +/- & UZR evenly to judge the defense.

An example is Jayson Werth, from all accounts plays really good defense in RF. He had positive UZR scores almost every other year, and Dewan agrees he played great D this year, scouts love his D. But he had a -2.6 UZR in RF this year which seems counter-intuitive and hurts his WAR & the teams UZR when you’re using them to judge teams head to head.

NEPP
15 years ago
Reply to  B

Werth is a really good RF when his head is in the game. He did make some bonehead plays in RF this year…a bit more so than usual it seemed.

neuter_your_dogma
15 years ago
Reply to  B

Jayson’s beard skews his theoretical zone of coverage.