Portland Has a MLB Stadium Site
On the heels of stadium disputes erupting in Arizona, Seattle, and Anaheim, at least one American city is moving forward with plans to woo a major league club, whether it be an existing team or an expansion one. As ESPN reported:
A group seeking to lure a Major League Baseball team to Portland announced that it has signed an agreement in principle to develop a 45-acre waterfront site.
The agreement with the Port of Portland was announced Thursday by the Portland Diamond Project. The group also released artist renderings of a new ballpark at the port’s Terminal 2.
You can see the Portland Diamond Project’s statement here.
“We believe this has the potential to be a transformative landmark project for this city,” [PDP Founder and President Craig] Cheek said. “Building an iconic, state-of-the-art ballpark along the Willamette River will catalyze economic development and capture great views of both the urban scale of the city and regional character of the Pacific Northwest.”
This letter of intent with the Port kicks off a collaborative process with the City of Portland, and local communities, to create a Major League Baseball ballpark and community destination.
“We’re committed to building a sustainable, equitable, and accessible ballpark that reflects what makes Portland such a special place to live,” Cheek said. “That means outstanding locally sourced food and beverage amenities, environmentally sustainable construction and operations, opportunities for makers and small businesses, and an atmosphere that celebrates diversity and inclusion and is welcoming to all Portlanders.”
The renderings show a beautiful 30,000 seat ballpark.
We are thrilled to announce that the Portland Diamond Project has signed an agreement in principle with the Port of Portland to develop the Port’s 45-acre Terminal 2 property. Release: https://t.co/Ddi79kP4i7 #MLBtoPDX pic.twitter.com/B7PvImtXvB
— Portland Diamond Project (@PDXDiamondProj) November 29, 2018
Building an iconic, state-of-the-art ballpark along the Willamette River will catalyze economic development and capture great views of both the urban scale of the city and regional character of the Pacific Northwest. pic.twitter.com/jzCU7V5UH8
— Portland Diamond Project (@PDXDiamondProj) November 29, 2018
So how likely is this to actually happen? Well, on the one hand, Portland would be building a stadium with no team yet, so there’s a bit of a “Field of Dreams” element here: if you build it, will they come?
That said, it’s entirely possible that, in this case, someone will. Why? First, the Portland Diamond Project has real money behind it, with noted singer and model Ciara Harris and her husband, Seattle Seahawks Quarterback and noted baseball fan Russell Wilson, among the more notable investors in the project (each invested separately). And both seem particularly enthused about the possibility of bringing a big league team to Portland.
Land = ??@MLB Team = Soon.
Fans = Forever. ???@Ciara, myself, & our Partners @PDXDiamondProj are ???up about bringing a @MLB team to an amazing city and community.Now… this is a cool Birthday Present! ?????? pic.twitter.com/x6TcUTkO28
— Russell Wilson (@DangeRussWilson) November 29, 2018
THIS!! ??????.
What an exciting day!! The look of this tastes so sweet ???? https://t.co/M4g0mqfhSt
— Ciara (@ciara) November 30, 2018
Second, Portland’s municipal government has already voiced at least some willingness to partially fund the project.
“And I see this as a huge economic opportunity as I’ve said, it’s an opportunity to build a central city neighborhood from scratch and to do it right,” [Portland Mayor Ted] Wheeler said.
“And so it’s a very compelling vision. It’s an exciting opportunity,” he added.
Because of that, taxpayers will help make the development happen if things get that far.
“It would be very naive to assume there will be no public contribution. In any large scale economic development strategy in any urban development we do, tax increment financing comes in to play,” said Wheeler.
And third, Major League Baseball has long looked at Portland as the logical location for a big league club.
In an appearance on FS1’s First Things First, Manfred mentioned six potential expansion cities and explained that the addition of new teams would also lead to division and playoff realignment. Manfred elaborated that MLB has a “real list of cities, that I think are not only interested in having baseball, but are viable in terms of baseball.”
“Portland, Las Vegas, Charlotte, Nashville in the United States, certainly Montreal, maybe Vancouver, in Canada,” Manfred said. “We think there’s places in Mexico we could go over the long haul.”
The Diamond Project believes a Portland ballpark could be ready for first pitch as soon as 2022. Now, there is one minor hiccup: Portland doesn’t have a team yet. And while expansion is a possibility, there’s also no guarantee it will happen any time soon. So let’s examine another potential route to filling Portland’s new ballpark: a current team moving.
I should say up front that while all of the teams I’m about to discuss face varying degrees of uncertainty surrounding the location of their home parks going forward, none have expressed an affirmative desire to leave the general geographic areas in which they currently play. This is a bit of speculation on my part. But the emergence of Portland as a viable major league city could change the calculus around that decision, just as it might serve as a new point of leverage in their existing markets, and there are three teams that could potentially fit the bill. First is the Tampa Bay Rays, who are actively looking for a new ballpark and have encountered a few obstacles in their quest to build a new ballpark in Ybor City. Still, Commissioner Manfred remains optimistic that the team will remain in Florida, so we can probably cross them off the list.
Then we come to the Angels, who opted out of their lease earlier this year. The Angels’ lease now ends after 2019, which means their timing would line up nicely with the opening of Portland’s ballpark after a short extension. This is made somewhat more plausible by the team’s continued inability to get a municipality to agree to fund a new stadium, and the fact that the team has begun appraising Angels Stadium and the land on which it sits in preparation for a potential move. But the Angels are still an imperfect fit, if only because it’s possible Anaheim wouldn’t agree to a three-year lease knowing the franchise is departing anyway. Moreover, leaving California would mean the Angels giving up their rights to a long-term television deal that pays the team in excess of $100 million per year. So whether the Angels elect to move could come down to what they value more: a publicly-funded stadium, or a lucrative television deal. (This may be why some press reports at the time of the opt out suggested that if a move came, it would be within Southern California.)
That leaves one other team that might be a possibility for Portland: the Arizona Diamondbacks. We’ve talked before about the Diamondbacks’ uneasy relationship with Maricopa County, which culminated in a lawsuit settled earlier this year:
But it’s not at all clear that Phoenix will pony up to pay for a billion-dollar ballpark that critics said wasn’t even necessary. So if the city won’t pay, the county won’t pay, and the team won’t pay, that just leaves a Native American tribe if the team were built on tribal land like the Snakes’ spring-training facility is. Either that, or nobody does, and that means that the team might end up looking out of state.
Portland offers the Diamondbacks everything they want: a new stadium, public funding, and a new, hungry fanbase (though with few of the team’s namesakes to be found in Oregon, presumably a rebranding would be in order). And there’s more:
Under the [settlement agreement], if the Diamondbacks found a new location in Maricopa County, the team could leave Chase Field without penalty in 2022, five years earlier than the team’s current contract.
But that’s not entirely accurate. Paragraph 19 of the settlement agreement actually lets the team move out of state without penalty in 2022 if Major League Baseball were to decide, in its sole discretion, that the team had to depart Chase Field. And local tribes haven’t exactly been lining up to fund a stadium on tribal land, particularly given that the team would receive no tax benefits from building there. In fact, one municipal government official, in response to the Diamondbacks’ overtures, told team owner Ken Kendrick to “take your stupid baseball team and get out [of Arizona],” recommending the team go to West Virginia.
Now, it’s still likely that an expansion team ends up filling Portland’s new ballpark, just as it’s possible that, despite investors’ current enthusiasm, a ballpark and team never materialize there at all. But it’s not out of the question that an existing team could make a move to the west coast. Portland is preparing to build a brand new stadium. We just have to wait and see who comes.
Sheryl Ring is a litigation attorney and General Counsel at Open Communities, a non-profit legal aid agency in the Chicago suburbs. You can reach her on twitter at @Ring_Sheryl. The opinions expressed here are solely the author's. This post is intended for informational purposes only and is not intended as legal advice.
On the expansion side, does MLB really want another small market club? Because that’s what Portland, or any other mentioned city would be. Currently Portland is the 25th largest MSA in the US, just barely eeking out Pittsburgh. While the two regions are obviously going in different directions population-wise, does MLB really need another Pittsburgh Pirate’s sized media market?
On the other hand, MLB hasn’t expanded in forever. Currently there are approximately 329,000,000 folks in the US for the 30 teams, or about 11 million people per team (obviously not distributed even remotely evenly). That has to be the highest it’s been in a while, if not ever.
Agreed — right now, the crop of candidate cities are pretty unimpressive demographically. However, in maybe a decade, these places might get big enough where they would be at least mid-market.
In some ways, I think that the threat is on the other end — there are a number of demographically stagnant small markets like Milwaukee and Cincinnati that are marginal now and only look to get less viable as time goes on. Baseball might have to relocate more than expand.
You guys knocking the ‘small market’ clubs, especially the dude that hypothesized annexing Cincinnati & Milwaukee, can’t just look at some of these numbers and say, “Voila–success!”
Miami/Florida is a Top 15, easily Top 20 city and the highest attendance they’ve ever had is 18th. This is with multiple WS and multiple ownership groups.
Tampa Bay/St. Petersburg–similar story as the 5th biggest media market. Getting into (or keeping) the right situation, locally and for the league, is more important than just looking at a media market and saying, “Yeah, it’ll work.”
I’d add….as a fan of a small-market team, given the choice between having and not having a team, there’s really no choice at all. I’m definitely going with having a team. I’m sure baseball fans in Portland feel exactly the same.
There is a choice: it’s whatever else you could build or attempt to accomplish in the city with whatever the publicly financed portion of a stadium ends up totaling.
If private enterprise has to put its own, and only its own, money up for the privilege of having its brand appreciate by hundreds of millions in value by the time they sell, then hell yeah, why NOT have a team?
The problem is that “baseball fans in Portland” is a veeeeery small group of people.
I assume you are speaking from a position of knowledge? I can’t imagine that you are. If you are a Portlandian and haven’t met any baseball fans, then I am not sure what you are doing. Head out to a Hillsboro Hops game – you are sure to meet a few there. Baseballism was founded there. There are fans. Maybe you are basing your perception on Portlandia, which is a real thing too. Fans in the Northwest are a pretty enthusiastic lot. They don’t need to be baseball fans to attend games.
Ignorant comment, Portland has minor league ball and usd to have AAA ball, they have a college wood bat league, and sa real minor league teams in Oregon In General. Both major universities have very strong programs ( although I’m UW guy) with Beavers having 2 Nattys in books. So to say very small group is just baseless, I think you meant to say baseball fans in Miami is veeeeeeery small group, then numbers would back up your statement. Sorry Miami
You are putting words into my mouth, @whip.
I am not knocking the small market clubs. I am just pointing out that as it is now, teams like KC and Cincy have a very hard time generating enough revenue to support winning teams. It happens every so often, but it takes a lot of luck and a lot of skill. MLB has done some things to reduce the gaps (international money caps, the competitive balance tax, etc), but as things go on, the gap will only get wider as places like Atlanta continue to grow while Milwaukee does not. Am I wrong here?
Also, I did not say that a mid-size market guarantees a successful franchise. Obviously it does not. But I would say, though, that it is very hard to have a consistently competitive franchise in a small market.
@johnnie T, that’s a competitive balance issue, not an immediate expansion issue. No small market franchise or fan base would say, “Yep, everything is good–we can easily compete with the franchises in bigger markets.”
But you can’t fit 20 teams in 10 media markets, for one. And two, even big media markets have not attracted fans OR had recent success (White Sox, Baltimore, Detroit, Texas come to mind.)
whiptydojoe, In MLB, I do think competitive balance and expansion, or more accurately the number of teams are related. Baseball is essentially a regional sport, i.e. funded predominantly by regional revenue, unlike the NFL or to a lesser extent the NBA. For fans, it makes “competitive balance” tricky. Since local fans fund the sport ticket revenue (price x number) you have an inherent conflict between small market and large market fans. Large market, high prices for tickets and sports network, and smaller markets more affordability but less revenue and less competitive product unless the league actively intercedes. I’m not picking a side I’m just trying to frame the problem for fans in a somewhat objective manner.
Counter by saying Oakland seems always be competitive it’s possible
Tampa Bay/St/ Petersburg is the 5th biggest media market? By what measure?
Good point. Per Nielsen, Tampa is the 11th largest DMA — but still more than 1.5x the number of households in Portland, which is 22nd.
Let’s use GDP
#12 Miami
#14 Detroit
#15 Minneapolis
#16 Phoenix
#17 San Diego
#20 Portland
#21 St Louis
#25 Pittsburgh
#26 Tampa
#28 Cleveland
#29 Cincinnati
#33 KC
#37 Milwaukee
Of hat last yoy can see Portland has money and plenty of corporations to buy suites, and of the list not many of those current teams have success, which more than likely is ownership issue tha s almost half of MLB. So yes Portland can support a team and with the right ownership could have a nice product on field, m mean come to n it’s nit like Seattle has hand much success at all since coming into league in late 70’s. And yes some these teams have had years where their good, it’s about managing, fans support winners
In my opinion, Florida is never going to be viable for baseball. Too many residents are relocated from other areas where they are going to remain diehard fans of their home team no matter how good the local team is. Both teams should, and probably will, eventually move out of state.
Arizona actually faces much of the same problem.
Not to mention that much of Florida’s population doesn’t even live there during baseball season.
To echo this, Milwaukee, the smallest market, was 10th in attendance last year, drawing far more than Miami and Tampa Bay combined. Market size means nothing if the residents aren’t fans.
First time in almost 60 years.
1997 (last year with 28 teams): 9.6 million
1992 (26 teams): 9.8 million
1976 (24 teams): 9.1 million
1968 (20 teams): 10.0 million
1961 (18 teams): 10.2 million
1960 (16 teams): 11.3 million
BUT… less people (as a percentage of population) are watching baseball
That is true. They are also playing less. Owners are surely making more money than ever though.
Nope. Less people are watching baseball on TV and live. The total number of people overall with TV, live, and streaming has increased.
& there are only 29 teams in the US. Take out Toronto from 1976-on & Montreal from 1968-1994 & the #’s are skewed even higher than the 1960-61 #’s. Take out Toronto & it’s 12M per team currently.
Or add in the 35 million pop in Canada (historically 10% of US is a good approximation) and it goes up even higher.
The only concern with market size is whether there is a TV deal to be had or not. I’d love another team in Canada again, but I doubt it happens. A lower bound estimate on how much the TV rights to the Blue Jays are actually worth (Rogers owns team, stadium, broadcast networks, etc.) would be great. By the end, Montreal couldn’t even get a TV deal, although after a decade+ of stories about what a terrible franchise/stadium/future the team had, it kinda’ seemed like intentional sabotage.
Toronto would be the 4th or 5th largest TV market in the US. They should be able to spend big, but they are owned by a media company in Canada that suppresses the value of the broadcast rights.
It’s reasonable to assume there is some amount of boosterism in everything he says, but is there a reason to assume Manfred is purely bluffing when he said he views Portland as a viable destination?
According to Wikipedia, it’s the 26th largest municipality and 25th largest metro area in the country. With 30 MLB clubs, and the #1, 2, 3 metro areas already doubled up (also #12, but less happily), the largest metros lacking teams are #13 Inland Empire CA, followed by #22 Charlotte, #23 Orlando, #24 San Antonio, and #25 Portland, all four of which are separated by less than 100,000 people.
If you were going purely by population numbers, you could make a case for adding a third New York team (20m/3 equals 6.66m, just a bit smaller than the Houston metro area). But the league clearly has an interest in geographic diversity, especially when it means expanding to states currently without a team.
And @whiptydojoe is right — team management, local buy in, and effective media deals are at least as important as population size. Having local celebrities and politicians on board before a team is even in place all seem to bode well.
Plus, baseball is old. Hipsters like old stuff.
“Montreal is the largest city in Canada or the U.S. without an MLB team, and at just over 4 million people, the 15th-largest metropolitan area in North America.” – Source: https://montrealgazette.com/sports/baseball/opinion-new-economic-realities-make-montreal-a-viable-option-for-mlb
As the parent of an autistic child, I find this user name to be highly offensive.
The Portland MSA is 25th in population, but 20th in GDP. There are dollars to be spent.
Neither of those matters. What matters is TV households or DMA. Google Nielsen DMA rankings.
Please select a different username. This one is quite inappropriate and offensive.
I think part of the thinking must also be a lack of regional penetration. Portland itself may not be that big, but there is a helluva lot of the west coast between Seattle and SF that MLB is basically not even trying to reach right now.
Great point – and it’s not just about the lack of an MLB team.
This October, I was in southern Oregon, but I was unable to find any divisional series games on radio except for COL/MIL (bizarre, as it was the least compelling matchup for a casual fan, presumably). That came out of Bend, OR, and the station picked high school football over playoff baseball on Fridays.
ALCS, NLCS and WS were a hodgepodge of flipping back and forth between static stations out of Seattle or Los Angeles. When a World Series game takes over seven hours, Mariachi band music cutting over color commentary keeps it fresh.
California is loaded with minor league baseball teams, but not north of the Bay Area. Small cities like Medford, OR, Redding, CA, and Chico, CA would seem to be capable of supporting a low minors affiliate. If an MLB team is 6-8 hours away and you can’t even find playoff games on the radio, it’s not going to do much for MLB to put minor league teams up and down the I-5 corridor, though.
Uhh, I think you can cross Chico off the list for a few years.
There are MiLB teams up and down the I-5 corridor already. The Northwest League has teams in Eugene, Salem, Hillsboro, Everett (and Vancouver, BC).
There area few teams in Florida that have proved beyond any reasonable doubt that they can’t field a team. I am very much against expansion, but there isn’t any shortage of teams/owners that would jump at the opportunity to Loria a community of taxpayers. Given the number of tanking teams, I don’t see how you can be too serious about expansion. Ideally you would have enough talent for every team, but that doesn’t appear to be the reality. I don’t think it has much to do with population. Of the growing population, do you think more are playing baseball? I kinda doubt it.
Tampa won 90 games last year
The Pittsburgh comp is poor considering Pittsburgh has 3 teams in the 4 major leagues and Portland has just one. (Make that 3/5 and 2/5 if you want to count MLS among major leagues.)
I’m not saying there’s an equal amount of potential major league sports revenue per capita between the two (as a Pittsburgh resident and frequent visitor to Portland, I certainly can’t imagine anything close to the level of passion that Pirates, Penguins, and Steelers fans bring) but you have to think there’s a lot of untapped energy among non-soccer fans in Portland when the NBA season ends.
There are some better markets to target, but there are many worse ones.
“Eke out” means to fill out, to complete through a minor measure; as in, “to eke out a living by doing odd jobs.” One is making it most of the way on one’s salary, but must “eke out” the rest by odd jobs. It does not mean to beat out or surpass.
the distribution of top league sports teams in the US by market is a. hilariously inefficient and b. probably intractable as long as there are “defectors” in terms of public funding for stadiums.
The important thing is that Portland is the 22nd largest DMA. MSA is irrelevant, the TV market or DMA is important.
San Diego is a top 6 MSA, but the 28th largest DMA. THAT is what makes them a small market team.
This Portland resident worries whether a baseball team can compete for fans against the Portland Timbers of Major League Soccer in their overlapping seasons.
The Timbers, who are headed to the MLS Cup this Saturday, represent the hottest ticket in town, supplanting the Portland Trail Blazers.
I also question whether Portland has enough corporate sponsors to support an MLB team.
But, hey, I would attend MLB games in Portland.
Interesting point. In the 2018 Baseball prospectus, there was an interesting comparison between the Cincinnati Reds and whoever the Cincinnati soccer team is. Apparently, in 2017, the soccer team outdrew the baseball team. Now, with TV deals and the like, the Reds obviously made more money, but the soccer team had more butts in the seats.
Hard to make a comparison though, A quick google search shows that Timber season ticket packages start at $5 a game. If they started charging prices comparable to baseball, I’m guessing attendance would decline by quite a bit.
Portland Timber season tickets start at $475 plus fees after a $50 deposit to get on a long waiting list:
https://www.timbers.com/tickets/2019-annual-memberships
This year on the secondary market tickets started at about $30 a game even during the club’s slump. This year I paid less for tickets to baseball games in Seattle, San Francisco and Milwaukee.
Yeah, you’re right. Turns out my quick google search was too quick. Google was nice enough to show me prices from 2010. Doh!
But I still think the comparison is hard to make. It’s much easier to have high average attendance for a rare event (soccer game) than a common event (baseball game). And while soccer ticket prices have increased, they still appear to be about 50% lower than baseball tickets on average.
And responding the the Cincinnati comparison above:
1) The soccer team was brand new which tends to put butts in the seat.
2) At least in their first year they were offering $5 tickets to college students and $12 to children.
3) According to Forbes, the Reds (surprisingly) have the 5th most expensive tickets on the secondary market.
4) FC Cincinnati may have had more “butts in the seat” per games but the Reds still dominated in terms of overall attendance.
Technically, you and they are right, but that was average game attendance. 19 games vs 81 games starts to matter when you talk dollars, value, and impact to the local community. Topping 300k for a minor league soccer season is insane–they even topped many MSL teams–but the Reds still drew 1.8M.
It should also be noted: FC Cincinnati is very much the exception, not the rule. I think any franchise in any sport would love to figure out their immediate success, in all aspects, and sign-up for it. They were like a match to dry hay and then tossing on jet fuel for good measure.
Thanks for taking a look at this Sheryl, bring on the Portland Stumps!
Geographically, keeping Seattle and expanding to Portland would be really nice for Seattle players who do way more travelling than other teams. Just a small thought that might help the players travel better and team lure more FAs, possibly.
It is absolutely insane that Arizona is *already* making noises about moving. Their stadium is new by any measure. I hope the voters in Portland have the wisdom to reject any tax increases to pay for this expenditure.
The PBP stadium plan claims they’ll do it without public funding (at least beyond assistance buying the site).
They won’t. Many voters in Portland see the word “tax” and immediately vote in favor.
Pretty ignorant comment. Especially since Oregon has no sales tax, thanks to a former state legislator from Portland.
Shouldn’t a baseball stadium in Portland have a retractable roof? They get almost as much rain as Seattle.
Portland gets much less rain in the “baseball months” than many other baseball cities(cincinnati/philly/NY, etc.) that don’t have a roof. The Pacific Northwest being a dumping ground is a misconception built out of the amount of winter rain they get(and lack of snow).
You can’t ask for a better baseball climate than the PNW.
Good to know, thanks. As for climate, I’m assuming you mean “climate during baseball months”, rather than overall. Southern California has the best high school baseball in the country, in quality, depth, and breadth, in large part due to weather, along with population, of course.
They might want a roof anyway. Wildfire smoke is unfortunately not going anywhere. When Multnomah Falls was on fire because teenagers, for days it was like walking around in a coastal fog, except the fog is tough on anyone with asthma.
It does show a big retractable glass roof, too.
My bad, I should have clicked on the link, it looked like something artistic to me when I first saw the rendering, and the top right image didn’t register. Is it just me, or is it dim in here? Why can’t it be both? It’s just me, and I’m dim.
I’m confused as to where national writers (and MLB) think these Portland “fans” actually *are*. Baseball has repeatedly failed in the Portland area with a AAA team recently failing.
I’d love for MLB to expand in Portland and Charlotte as I believe we need another team on the West Coast as well as one in the South but I have some serious doubts about Portland.
The Triple A Portland Beavers did not fail as much as being replaced by Major League Soccer. The Beavers shared the stadium with minor league soccer until MLS required a stadium expansion that forced baseball out of the park. The minor league soccer and baseball teams shared an owner who opted for Major League Soccer.
I’m not sure an MLB team would be an attendance juggernaut, but it’s not fair to draw conclusions based on the Portland Beavers. Fans in a large city want to root for their own team — a real deal MLB team. There was no emotional connection with the losing, journeymen-filled Triple-A team of the San Diego Padres.
Here are a couple of articles from The Hardball Times from 2015 discussing the issue of expansion. What makes an expansion city successful isn’t what you think it is. That being said, the analysis does agree that Portland, at best, is a middling choice.
https://www.fangraphs.com/tht/examining-potential-mlb-expansion-cities-part-1/
https://www.fangraphs.com/tht/examining-potential-mlb-expansion-cities-part-2/
This analysis posits that because major league baseball’s average fan is white, male, non-college educated, and older, MLB should target areas with a surfeit of these individuals. Following this, it recommends places like Providence, Rhode Island and the Inland Empire of California as prime expansion markets. It also leads the author to conclusions like “there are a plethora of reasons why it just wouldn’t work. The most glaring is Puerto Rico’s large Hispanic population.”
This is quite . . . empirical! But it ignores an important sense of ‘expansion.’ When the goal is to increase overall interest in your product, it can be beneficial to look at places and populations that aren’t obvious customers/fans, but could be with the right factors in place. Local enthusiasm, committed investors, a coherent development strategy around a new stadium — all these things have the potential to increase interest and get non baseball fans (and non typical baseball fans) paying attention.
Do you have a source for the average baseball fan? It seems odd to me the average fan wouldn’t have a college education. In my experience the overwhelming majority of baseball fans I have come across in my time have been college educated. Maybe that’s just chance, but my intuition would tell me my experience isn’t unique.
No. It’s possible the average fan is college educated. But the observation of the Hardball Times article was that cities with a greater proportion of non college grads draw more fans than comparable cities with more college graduates. Whether that indicates the average fan is non college educated is open to debate.
But it would also depend on how we define “fan” — season ticket holder, attended a game in the past year, watched a game in the past year, “likes” a team on Facebook. All would likely have different demographic breakdowns.
The closest thing to real data I could find was a Nielsen report from 2013. The only info on education is among listeners to the World Series radio broadcast that year in St. Louis and Boston. Boston fans were 25% high school grad, 21% some college, 43% college grad. St. Louis was 25% high school grad, 26% some college, 43% college grad.
Again, this is only radio listeners during the 2013 World Series in the two home markets. I’m guessing the teams/MLB knows the answer, and I invite them or anyone who’s seen to share it!
Expansion, increasing overall interest in your product, etc. are all well and good, but, ultimately, baseball is a business. I don’t see an owner stepping up to pay a $500-million – $1-billion franchise fee (or whatever it will be) for the right to lose 10s of millions of dollars per year for an undetermined time period of time (until the new customers/fans show up) when safer and more lucrative alternatives exist (see Sharpe Ratio). If Portland does indeed get a team, they could well end up a bottom of the barrel scraper (a la the Athletics, Rays, Pirates) or be looking to relocate within 10 years or so.
A Seattle group is about to put down $600 M to get an NHL team. I don’t think $1 billion for an MLB is that big of a stretch.
Wow, that is a pretty harsh insult of West Virginia. Their literate residents will be pissed.
Buffalo, NY tried the same trick in 1987………………………
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sahlen_Field
Then again, so did St. Louis in the 90’s, and it got them an NFL team…for a couple decades, at least.
Tampa would make the most sense. they’ve been trying for YEARS to work out a new stadium deal and are still at zero. this would allow them to spend more and be even more competitive.
i dont see an expansion team happening.
Tampa to Portland would take some realignment. Is anyone going to choose to compete with the Yankees and Red Sox in the AL East?
Swap with the Dodgers
And make LA travel across the continent for every single divisional road series? That seems nonsensical.
I am sure Detroit would be happy to move. All the AL East teams are in their time zone and not an hour behind like most of the Central division, Also, they would certainly draw way more fans for the games against the Yankees, Red Sox and Blue Jays than they do against their current division rivals.
Of course, for this to work one of the Texas teams would have to the Central.
Well, then the Astros can move to the AL Central and have a better matchup with their time zone. The Astros certainly have experience playing in a Central Division, and let’s not forget that the Tigers were originally in the AL East from 1994-97 before the expansion Devil Rays pushed them to the AL Central in the first place.
I don’t see Portland as a particularly strong market. In addition to being small market, the state income tax for those who make six figures is 9.9 percent. Can’t see free agents lining up to play here. We in the city are waiting for the baseball group to reveal who has the real money for this project that’s supposedly going to be almost entirely privately funded. The state many years ago approved $150 million for a stadium. That money is still available, but it’s insufficient to buy a team and build a stadium.
Top rate in CA is 13.3%; those teams haven’t had trouble attracting talent.
Of course, the big difference between CA and OR is that one has 24/7 sunshine and beautiful people while the other has beautiful scenery. Elite MLB players, and other members of the uber-rich, tend to prefer the former.
“Will catalyze economic development” – standard stadium speak, but I found it to be an especially cute assertion, as Portland is basically an ever-gentrifying slew of high rise luxury apartments and condos that residents can’t actually afford to live in. Unsure what the stadium will develop that isn’t happening on its own. Maybe they will use their teamless stadium to house the Portland/Vancouver area’s est. 80,000 homeless people during the winter.
Of course your objection is well-founded but I assumed they were talking about the NW Industrial District, where the site is located. NW Yeon Ave is basically the Flushing, Queens of Portland; presumably whatever kind of “stadium village” they put in there would transform the immediate vicinity from a warehouse district into a residential and retail-friendly area (as well as a traffic nightmare).
(self-correction before anyone gets mad about this, I meant to say “the Willets Point of Portland”)
Looking at the map, yeah, that’s a good place for it. I-5 tends to be a little more tolerable than 205, away from the city center.
It’s somewhat tongue-in-cheek. I was only there a year myself, but I got a lot of earfuls about the high rises and all the out-of-towners.
at least with condos you get the money laundering dollars. Not sure those folks are buying season tickets for the Timbers
(though with few of the team’s namesakes to be found in Oregon, presumably a rebranding would be in order)”
Surely they can afford to relocate a representative population of Crotalus to Oregon.
I’ve already seen this episode of Portlandia
Inland Empire is a silent giant of a market (#13 metro area) especially with regard to an Angels move. Riverside, here we come…?
Los Angeles Angels of Riverside
Los Angeles Anaheims of Riverside
A lot of those people are already Dodgers fans though.
Stadium site aside, I don’t see “a new, hungry fanbase” in Portland. It’s a small city for MLB, and not a baseball town by any reasonable standard. It’s barely a sports town and the Blazers and Timbers between them pretty much split the existing sports-friendly demographics down the middle. I go to Hops games once in a while and they’re a lot of fun but the city barely knows they’re there. If we were talking about bringing back the Mavericks, I’d say that scale of thing has a chance to succeed in Portland, but an MLB team? I just don’t see the ticket sales being better than in Tampa Bay.
I’m not familiar with where the metro area boundary is drawn to determine market size, but Portland has some populous, affluent suburbs like Beaverton. I’d have to imagine it’s close enough to have been counted.
Vancouver is right across the river, too. But there are only two two-lane interstates that cross it. A Vancouver fan who lives ten miles from a Portland stadium would probably need to get on 205 at 4-5pm to make a 7:05 first pitch. The city doesn’t have the roadway infrastructure to support the massive influx of people to the area.
Yes, those are both part of the Portland MSA, and yes, it’d be a traffic and transit nightmare as currently planned. You’d have to imagine at a minimum some kind of direct light-rail option being added for this site to make any sense at all from a people-moving standpoint.
This sounds eerily similar to the Rays situation where folks who live in Tampa are reluctant to cross the causeway to get to the ballpark in St. Petersburg.
Actually, it is effortless for residents of Vancouver to get into Portland on I-5 during rush hour. All of the traffic is headed the opposite direction and gets plugged up at the Columbia River crossing. I drive into the city for dinner one or two night per week, and you don’t hit any traffic until the Rose Garden area, and even there it’s not bad. Only trick is that you have to wait until after 7pm for the trip home.
There are 400k residents of Clark County that could easily make it down for evening games. Parking near the proposed site seems like a nightmare, however. Ideally, they would build parking garages directly across the river and offer ferry transfer or build a pedestrian bridge.
Is 30,000 seats enough?
Suppose they got really good or baseball just took off there.
Do you really want to limit attendance to 2.43MM/season?
No to Portland, yes to Montreal.
I’d buy season tickets the second its announced for me +3. So here is 4. Portland is the whitest major city in the country which is a huge thing for baseball, and the Blazers thrive in a small city. Whether or not that is right is another matter, but skeptics of a smaller fan base are simply plain wrong. If you build it they will come.
As an aside, if baseball fan population is anyway represented by the percentage of Fangraphs writers who are from Oregon we might have the most fans in the country.
The Portland A’s would at least seem like a possibility.
Didn’t they just announce a new stadium in Oakland?
Yep. They’ve done that at least 5 times in the last 12 years.
The real question is who makes the playoffs sooner, Seattle or Portland? And I’m not assuming they’re getting a team.
So Portland has better GDP, than St. Louis, Tampa, Cincinnati, Milwaukee, Pittsburgh m Cleveland and KC. Better than Charlotte and Vegas off expansion list and you forgot OAkland as possible relocating, they seem be biggest possibility, as they can’t mive or get stadium deal, but I agree Arizona , struggles with pro teams, coyotes are always in lmbo. And another you forget Portland will pick up fans from Vancouver, wa metro area too, Portland had AAA baseball for several years. Paul Allen did not want other major sports in Portland, with his passing can see NHL and MLB coming to Portland market.
Another 30K seat stadium? Oh joy. Wouldn’t want people of more modest means to be able to attend a game. far better to “maximize revenues”.
Then MLB can fund another study on why attendance is falling.
I think the biggest deciding factors when considering whether a team should be relocated are: Do fans attend their games? If a new stadium is built, will fans attend their games?
Portland fans show up to both the NBA and MLS, every year. Tampa and Miami struggle to draw fans, even when they are winning. If you look at he average attendance in MLB, MLS, and NBA it seems the West Coast is the best coast for expansion, and the southeast should be giving some teams to the more enthusiastic regions of the country.
If a baseball team can’s fill the seats during a playoff run, they should probably be relocated…
I moved to Portland 2.5 years ago, and just bought a house that could almost see the stadium site (if it was 2 blocks further West)……
My perception is that while there is plenty of money for individual, there are not many actual corporations here that are all that big. I’m not convinced there are companies to buy suites.
The weather is not what anyone thinks. It barely rains at all during the baseball season. The location will be gentrified in the next 10-15 years, or much faster with a stadium. And, you’d maybe not be surprised to learn that plenty of people in the western suburbs don’t even like to go downtown, it’s too scary for them.
The big issue for attendance is traffic, imo. It’s already impossible to drive on 26 to get to the Western suburbs, or down 5 from Vancouver (or back). I’m hopeful they add boats to get people across the rivers, because otherwise I have no idea how anyone will drive to that site.
I do think it can work, but I think it will be a challenge when the team is bad to fill the stadium.
I am surprised that Sheryl didn’t mention the Athletics as a potential for relocation. If Rob Manfred can invoke an “unfit for MLB” clause to extricate the Dbacks from Chase Field, he could also apply that to O.CO.
Russel Wilson is such a phony
I know I’m a little (maybe a lot) biased here, but I think the MLB should take a hard look at Raleigh, NC as well. Top 6 reason’s why Raleigh makes a good choice.
1) Of metro’s with over 1M people, it is the 2nd fastest growing in the US.
2) We’re only the 43 largest MSA, however, they don’t include Durham which is 30 mins away, has 567K people and growing at a pace of 12.5%.
3) Centrally located. DC is the closest major league team, 4.5 hours away.
4) Can draw from several other MSAs. Within 3 hours of VA Beach, Charlotte, Richmond, Winston-Salem, and Myrtle Beach.
5) Proof of concept. Durham Bulls are already one of the highest attended minor league teams.
6) High disposable income. Only one cities without a major league team that have a higher disposable income than Raleigh, Anchorage, AK and Austin, TX.
It’s still hard to justify even with my bias, especially over Charlotte, however, if you’re looking at the big picture, I think 20 years from now, they’ll be a top 15-20 MSA with low crime and high disposable income.
If MLB does decide to expand, the South East seems like a logical choice. It’s kind of ridiculous that the Braves are broadcasting to around 30 million people in over a dozen metros. It’s almost like California having a single team.
This calls for an analysis of the concentration of baseball fans in each city (such as was done by fivethirtyeight.com for NHL expansion).
Expansion to 32 teams; new teams in Portland, and either Las Vegas or Charlotte or San Antonio. I like it.
I hope Kurt Russell isn’t too battered to participate in ownership.
A couple thoughts I haven’t seen mentioned:
1- I doubt that 2022 date was picked out of a hat. That suggests they have a specific team in mind. The Dbacks. A good choice, too, because the Dbacks are headed into a rebuild this year or next and should be back on their feet by 22/23. Plus they’re an NL team. The other candidates are mostly AL. Less Seattle angst that way.
2- That ballpark concept? The glass roof almost certainly won’t stay. Glass is heavy. And if it stays closed for more than a day or so the greenhouse effect will be murder on the grass. The Astrodome started out with glass. They ended up with astroturf. Things may have improved but composites are lighter and stronger. Besides, if the weather is as good as stated maybe they drop the roof to meet the deadline and beat CHEOPS’S LAW.
The Hillsboro Hops are a D’backs affiliate. Every time I go to a game out there, it’s packed!