Prospect Watch: The Mets’ Return for Ike Davis
Each weekday during the minor league season, FanGraphs is providing a status update on rookie-eligible players. Note that Age denotes the relevant prospect’s baseball age (i.e. as of July 1st of the current year); Top 15, the prospect’s place on Marc Hulet’s preseason organizational list; and Top 100, which is that same prospect’s rank on Hulet’s overall top 100 list.
Last season, the Pirates finished second in the National League Central. Their playoff run was to be the beginning of something special in Pittsburgh, but they’ve stumbled early. Currently, they’re fourth in the National League’s toughest division, six games behind the surging Brewers. While it’s too early to be concerned, the Pirates acquired Ike Davis from the Mets to platoon with Gaby Sanchez. After years of illness, injuries, and ineffectiveness, Davis was in need of a change of scenery, so the Mets shipped him to Pittsburgh for a relief pitcher (Zack Thorton) and a Player To Be Named Later (PTBNL).
What follows is an examination both of Thornton and two potential candidates for that PTBNL.
Zack Thornton, RHP, New York Mets (Profile)
Level: Triple-A Age: 25 Top 15: N/A Top 100: N/A
Line: 7.1 IP, 9.82 K/9, 1.23 BB/9, 0.0 HR/9, 1.55 FIP
Summary
Attacking hitters from a low arm slot, Thornton has been a statistical darling.
Notes
Thornton has spent his professional career as a relief pitcher, first as an Oakland Athletic then as a Pittsburgh Pirate. In 2013, he pitched 75.1 innings and posted dominate numbers: 10.8 K/9, 1.4 BB/9, 0.5 HR/9, 51.8% GB%. Yet, the 25-year-old was not selected in Rule 5 draft.
Thornton — while he’s been effective — has a ROOGY profile at the highest level due to his low, three-quarter arm slow. His fastball sits in the high 80s and touches the low 90s. His primary secondary offering is a slider and he mixes in a changeup as well. The Mets’ bullpen has been poor to begin the year, relying on several erratic youngsters along with veterans like Daisuke Matsuzaka, Jose Valverde and Kyle Farnsworth. Expect Thornton to get his shot.
Potential players to be named later:
Blake Taylor, LHP, Pittsburgh Pirates (Profile)
Level: N/A Age: 18 Top 15: N/A Top 100: N/A
Line 2013: 21 IP, 5.57 K/9, 3.86 BB/9, 0.0 HR/9, 3.65 FIP
Summary
Do the Mets add another projectable left-handed starter to its pitching heavy system?
Notes
During the past off season, Taylor was unranked in Marc Hulet’s Pittsburgh Pirates top 10 because their system was so deep. Taylor was drafted in the second round last June, 51st overall and made a brief debut in the Gulf Coast League (GCL). He stands 6-foot-3 and, as you can see in the video below, was well developed as a high school senior a year-and-a-half ago. The California native features a sinking low-90s fastball that could add velocity as he matures. His curve ball is considered his best offering. Released from his high, three-quarter delivery, his curve has a 1/7 shape but lacks consistent tight rotation. Taylor, like most pitchers his age, needs repetitions to develop. Whether he is a Met or a Pirate, he should begin the year in the New York-Penn League.
Video by Steve Fiorindo.
Level: Single-A Age: 22 Top 15: 11th Top 100: N/A
Line: 58 PA, 5.2% BB, 22.4% K, .288/.328/.423 (.350 BABIP, 118 wRC+)
Summary
In 2012, Jones was considered one of the best players in the Cape Cod League and terrific athlete. In recent years, the Pirates have had moderate success developing raw talents, like Jones.
Notes
Raw may not be the best adjective to describe Jones. Drafted out of Louisiana State University as a junior, Jones primarily played second base. After three college seasons and a tour of the Cape, Jones has had plenty of experience. Yet, his performance has not caught up to his impact tools.
Heading into the draft, many teams thought Jones’ best position was center field where he projects as a plus defender. The Pirates disagreed. In his abbreviated debut with the Jamestown Jammers, Jones played center field and shortstop; in 2014, he has been a shortstop. His performance has been rough in the early going. He committed five errors in 11 games. At the plate, Jones is a gap-to-gap hitter with plus speed. As he develops, he should reach double-digit home runs, but his game is speed.
The Mets have not successfully developed position players in recent years, but player development is a bit of a numbers game. Adding an athlete like Jones is a significant piece for an organization starved for impact position players.
Formerly of Bullpen Banter, JD can be followed on Twitter.
Certainly far less likely the Bucs would give up a player fairly close to the show with upside that Jones has. I’d have to believe the ptbn will be Taylor who won’t be relevant for 3 to 4 yrs. Not to mention that it seems a stretch that the Pirates would be carrying a guy for the next two months playing basically for the Mets but in a Pirate affil uniform. That would be kinda weird. It seems far more likely to be a guy set for SS ball. And so even tho he won’t be relevant for several seasons, the Mets can come away from the deal saying they got a high ceiling prospect.
I’m not sure I understand what you’re trying to say here. Jones is a 22 year old in A-ball with a 4:1 K:BB ratio. It doesn’t seem like he’s fairly close to the show – not in the next year or two, anyway.
And since he was drafted last year, the only way the Pirates can trade him is if they keep him in their system for the next two months.
I mean that with the Pirates window being right now, it’s less optimal for them to deal a player who could see the show by next yr some time. The Mets window being farther out can therefore justify getting a player who may not be relevant for several years, while the Pirates can make up for that kind of loss in the coming draft and otherwise not lose a beat.
The idea that Jones will be in the majors next year seems a bit…optimistic.
regardless, he’s about 2-3 yrs ahead of any HS draftee from the 2013 draft. That’s the point.
I’m with maguro. I agree that the Pirates wouldn’t want to trade someone who can help them in the next year or two while the window is still there, but I don’t see Jones as someone who’s on the verge of helping them out. Maybe a September call-up next season, or a mid 2016 debut, but it’s not like he’s knocking on the door right now.
Taylor was drafted earlier than Jones, and signed for a higher bonus, so my assumption is that the Pirates liked him more a year ago. Either way, I don’t think there’s a whole lot distinguishing their value in a vacuum.
I agree, I bet its a prep pitcher still in extended spring training. I don’t think it would be a guy that is playing for the Pirates affiliates over the next two months.
Blake Taylor, Neil Kozikowski, or Billy Roth most likely or OF Nick Buckner.
Yep, tho I’d focus on the top two there.
I can’t remember a trade situation quite like this from recent years, where a player was to remain with another team without knowing he’d been traded for 2 months. Seems kind of awkward.
Michael Brantley? Took three months for him to be named in the CC Sabathia trade.
Doesn’t it happen from time to time at the end of the year, when a trade-piece doesn’t get through waivers? I vaguely recall the Mets trading Billy Wagner to the Red Sox a few years ago, and the Yankees claimed the other player (Chris Carter) just because they can. Wagner was ultimately traded for a PTBNL, who was sent to the Mets after the season ended.
Apparently a player that was drafted can’t be traded for a year so it’s likely that the PTBNL was drafted in 2013. So after the 2014 draft, the PTBNL will named.
This exact scenario happened to Drew Pomeranz, except everyone knew he was going to be the ptbnl in the Jimenez trade.
JaCoby Jone what the hell u doin!!!!
How are PTBNL’s decided? Which team chooses the player? Is a potential pool (for instance, of 2-3 players) agreed upon when the original trade is made? How do they decide when “later” is? Why don’t they just trade the player when the trade is made?
These seem like good FanGraphs questions to me. Please post a link if the article already exists and I missed it.
Can be players not eligible to be traded [DL, recent drafted players] or it can be essentially an evaluation period for a list of players to choose from. Rather than the Pirates waiting days/weeks for the Mets scouts to observe and decide, the trade can be done and the Pirates get immediate use of Ike Davis.
I think it’s Buddy Borden.
I think its highly unlikely that its an active pitcher from the 2013 class. The Bucs/Mets would be risking injury messing up the trade for two months of A ball games. Look at the prep arms from 2013 draft, that is much more likely.
I’m thinking it’s either SS Adam Frazier or Jacoby Jones.
Frazier is the better bet to stick at SS, while Jones has far more upside, but less likely to stay at SS.
I would have no problem with the Pirates trading Blake Taylor… after all, it will probably be 4 to 5 years before he is a major leaguer (counting the inevitable 18 months recovering from TJ surgery), and he does not seem like an “ace” in the making. But JaCoby Jones would be LOT to pay for an inconsistent, defensively-challenged, platoon 1Firstbaseman coming off a terrible year.
Is there any reason to think the Pirates and Mets have a list of players the Mets could choose from after the rule 4 draft? If they already agreed on a player, it would seem awkward for the Pirates to be allowed to make decisions about the player’s usage (e.g. how many innings, what type of pitches, etc).
Any possibility Trae Arbet might wind up being the PTBNL? He seems to be a defense-oriented shortstop without much upside as a hitter. As a Pirate fan, I would be much more comfortable trading Arbet than Jones!
Agree on Blake Taylor, tho I’m coming from the other side of things. FTR, Ike is considered a pretty smooth fielding 1Bman.
So they turned down Matt Joyce this offseason in order to get a player they could have had for 50 grand in the rule 5 draft? Good job Mets.
It’s the Mets Way ™.
You seem to be missing the point, that the PTBNL is the big piece in this trade. Or, more likely, you’re choosing to ignore the point because it doesn’t fit your narrative.