Talk Thirty to Me: Why Veteran Talent Means More Than You Think

MLB front offices often spend a lot of energy trying to make their rosters younger. There are a number of obvious benefits to this — young players are cheap, especially before they reach arbitration status, and as Ben Lindbergh of The Ringer detailed back in August, they are also historically good. Trying to get younger is a strategy that’s easy to sell a fan base on, and yet during last month’s World Series, older players were the ones who often found themselves at the center of the attention. Sure, Washington’s preternaturally gifted Juan Soto took October by storm while turning just 21 years old during the World Series, but mostly it was guys like Howie Kendrick (36), Kurt Suzuki (36), and Ryan Zimmerman (35) catching headlines throughout the postseason. Veteran pitchers like Fernando Rodney (42), Anibal Sanchez (35) and Max Scherzer (35) were playing big roles for the championship-winning Nationals, while Justin Verlander (36) and Zack Greinke (36) each made two World Series starts for the runner-up Astros.

The idea of older players being the driving force behind these title contenders didn’t simply arise from a few random flashes of brilliance in October. According to ESPN, Washington reached the postseason with MLB’s oldest active roster. In fact, each of the five oldest teams in baseball reached the postseason, along with seven of the top eight. Some places show slightly different figures for average team age, but regardless of where you look, the top of the list always features a long list of teams who won a lot of games in 2019.

The easy headline here is that baseball’s best teams were also its oldest. But teams like the Nationals and Astros didn’t just have a bunch of old guys on their team — they had a bunch of very good old guys. The Yankees did too, and so did the Dodgers. After a long offseason that saw the majority of teams seemingly turn their noses up at veteran talent, older players produced as much value this season as they have for years. The difference was, in 2019, it was only a few teams reaping the benefits.

With all the discussion surrounding the veterans in the World Series, along with the entire postseason, I was curious as to whether there was any correlation between veteran talent and overall success this season. For reasons I’ll get into later, I was specifically interested in players at and above the age of 30. I looked at each team’s overall WAR totals and split them into two groups: WAR from players who were younger than 30 years old on June 30, and WAR from players age 30 or older. Here are those totals, with playoff teams highlighted in yellow.

Total Team WAR
Team WAR
Astros 64.51
Dodgers 58.83
Twins 54.98
Yankees 50.87
Nationals 48.34
Rays 48.28
Athletics 47.21
Red Sox 43.96
Mets 43.85
Cubs 41.89
Indians 41.59
Braves 39.22
Cardinals 37.94
Diamondbacks 37.31
Brewers 37.03
Reds 29.71
Phillies 29.25
Padres 28.90
Angels 26.07
Rangers 23.45
White Sox 23.35
Mariners 22.26
Blue Jays 20.58
Pirates 19.68
Giants 17.55
Royals 17.02
Rockies 16.84
Orioles 11.90
Tigers 8.64
Marlins 8.59

WAR From Players 29 & Younger
Team WAR
Twins 41.53
Astros 38.85
Dodgers 37.35
Rays 35.39
Cubs 32.06
Mets 31.93
Red Sox 31.32
Athletics 31.24
Indians 31.19
Cardinals 26.86
Reds 26.77
Angels 26.65
Padres 26.14
Yankees 25.90
Braves 25.52
Phillies 23.54
Nationals 23.32
White Sox 23.21
Diamondbacks 22.94
Brewers 19.62
Blue Jays 18.38
Rockies 18.12
Pirates 17.49
Mariners 15.37
Orioles 12.05
Marlins 9.46
Royals 9.20
Rangers 8.94
Giants 7.93
Tigers 7.72

WAR From Players 30 & Older
Team WAR
Astros 25.66
Nationals 25.02
Yankees 24.97
Dodgers 21.48
Brewers 17.41
Athletics 15.97
Rangers 14.51
Diamondbacks 14.37
Braves 13.70
Twins 13.45
Rays 12.89
Red Sox 12.64
Mets 11.92
Cardinals 11.08
Indians 10.40
Cubs 9.83
Giants 9.62
Royals 7.82
Mariners 6.89
Phillies 5.71
Reds 2.94
Padres 2.76
Blue Jays 2.20
Pirates 2.19
Tigers 0.92
White Sox 0.14
Orioles -0.15
Angels -0.58
Marlins -0.87
Rockies -1.28

The difference in the second and third table was interesting to me. There are unsurprisingly a bunch of playoff teams at the top of all three lists, but when it comes to teams who got a ton of value from players in their 20s, there are as many non-playoff teams in the top 12 as there are playoff teams. Missing the playoffs didn’t mean these teams were bad — the Cubs and Indians were in the mix for the entire year, while the Mets won 86 games and the Red Sox won 84 — but they were ultimately a step down from the other contenders. The third table, meanwhile, shows a much tighter pack of playoff squads at the top. The top six teams in that table all reached the postseason, and the Cardinals were the only playoff team not to finish in the top 11. There’s arguably a stronger correlation between WAR from players 30 and older and reaching the postseason than there is for overall WAR. Even for just one season, that’s unexpected.

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The number 30 here might seem a bit arbitrary — round and convenient, an aesthetically pleasing cut-off point, but probably not substantially different from, say, 29 or 31. The reason I chose it is because of what it represents. It’s about the age when many players are first hitting free agency, or at least, when their service time would have dictated they reach free agency had they not signed an extension. Players who are 30 or older are much more expensive than their younger peers despite providing similar value. A player who is 30 or older is also a lock to make his team older and is less likely to break out in the future than someone in their 20s.

If a player can’t make a team younger, and he can’t make a team cheaper, he has to fulfill a third purpose — helping his team win games. That last task seems like it should be of considerably more importance to someone who’s putting together an MLB roster, but as we’ve witnessed with the last couple of free agent classes, most teams don’t seem to feel that way. Teams projected to be at or near the bottom of their divisions sell off anyone who doesn’t meet the goals of being young and cheap, and teams in the middle of the pack are much more comfortable going young and cheap than they are taking a risk on an older player who might buy them two wins. Even organizations with a track record of winning and spending money, confoundingly, have opted to go younger and cheaper at the cost of championship pursuits.

The result is a league in which there is a small number of contenders who believe themselves to have enough incentive to go get players who are in the second half of their careers and come with a higher price tag. That seemed anecdotally true throughout the season, and when looking at the share of WAR going to playoff teams over the past few years, it turned out to be accurate. Since the second Wild Card was introduced in 2013, just under half of all WAR accumulated across baseball has been compiled for teams who reached the playoffs. That stayed true for younger talent in 2019, with postseason teams benefiting from 43.3% of all WAR posted by players age 29 and younger. Their share of value posted by players 30 and older, meanwhile, soared.

An astounding 61.9% of all WAR compiled by players 30 and older went to the 10 playoff teams. That’s three-fifths of a major chunk of value across baseball getting hoarded by one-third of the teams. You might wonder if this could simply be the result of fewer veterans being given chances around baseball, thus allowing the value posted by the ones who do to stand out more. But that isn’t the case. Players age 30 or older combined to produce about as much value in 2019 as they averaged over the last few seasons. The pot was just split by fewer teams than it should be.

WAR is a finite statistic. Every year, about 1,000 wins are distributed across all players in baseball. There will never be a surge in leaguewide WAR, like there has been in homers and strikeouts, nor will there be a sudden drop, like there is in stolen bases. There is just 1,000 WAR sitting out there at the start of every year, waiting to be claimed. And despite the efforts by front offices to get younger, and the all-time great production by the youngest players in the game, somewhere around 30% of all those WAR has continued to go to players who are 30 and older. That means building a team exclusively around players in that age range is still unwise — even the Nationals, as deep as they were in older talent, got four of their five most valuable position player seasons from players in their 20s this year — but it also means it’s extremely hard to build the most complete team possible while ignoring those older players and refusing to make the signings or trades necessary to get them on your team.

Each year, this truth is reflected in the postseason field. Dating back to 2013, if your team finished in the top 10 in WAR from players over 30, there’s a 62.9% chance you made the postseason (44 out of 70 teams). If you finished in the top 10 in WAR from players 29 and younger, your odds of making the playoffs were 57.1%. Complementing your good young players with good older players in important, and the good news for front offices is that this is the easiest part. Developing a great young core, whether it’s through the draft or clever trades or the international signing pool, is very difficult. It takes an incredibly smart group of decision-makers to hit on enough prospects to build a formidable force of young and — ugh — “controllable” major league talent, and even then, you’re relying a whole lot on luck.

But to cash in on this whole other segment of value, all you need to do is write a check. On our list of the top 50 free agents available this winter, 44 of them are 30 or older. They aren’t going to be better simply as a result of their age, but it does mean they’re maybe going to be overlooked because of it. Players over 30 are going to amass hundreds of wins in 2020, just like they always do. Allowing just a few teams to continue hoarding the majority of those wins for themselves will only further the gap between baseball’s superteams and the rest of the field.

Special thanks to Sean Dolinar for research assistance.





Tony is a contributor for FanGraphs. He began writing for Red Reporter in 2016, and has also covered prep sports for the Times West Virginian and college sports for Ohio University's The Post. He can be found on Twitter at @_TonyWolfe_.

27 Comments
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sphenreckson
6 years ago

What this tells me is that playoff teams have spent on free agents lately, and non playoff teams have not (because that’s how you get old players for the most part.) It doesn’t surprise me that teams that don’t consider themselves contenders wouldn’t sign free agents.

sphenreckson
6 years ago
Reply to  sphenreckson

What happens when you eliminate all teams that are in rebuild mode? I feel like that would be more telling.

Shalesh
6 years ago
Reply to  sphenreckson

Non-contenders also trade their 30+ good players to contenders for prospects. This is similar to the shallow correlation between Payroll and Wins that Craig Edwards and others mistake for causation. Wins from a young core come first, then Payroll expenditures go up including those on 30+ yo’s to make those teams better contenders.

Wonderful Terrific Monds
6 years ago

What’s the thesis of this piece?

Has any playoff contender (or would-be playoff contender) actually “ignored those older players (apparently, defined as > 30 y/o) and refus[ed] to make the signings or trades necessary to get them on [their] team”? If so, which team and when?

What veteran player that would have would any sort of material difference in any team’s playoff odds has been excluded from MLB because of teams ignoring or refusing to employ them?

srpst23Member since 2025
6 years ago

Cleveland last off-Season comes to mind. Michael Brantley alone (4.2 war) while finishing 3 games out of the playoffs would have helped. I’m sure that there are others, you just probably don’t remember them because they are cheap teams who missed the playoffs. Also any of the recently decent Pirates teams would fit this too.

Original Greaser Bob
6 years ago

Are you all going to spend another off-season obsessing over “super teams”?

SenorGato
6 years ago

“It takes an incredibly smart group of decision-makers to hit on enough prospects to build a formidable force of young and — ugh — “controllable” major league talent, and even then, you’re relying a whole lot on luck.”

If “controllable” major league talent disgusts you maybe controllable major league assets? Properties? Ask Matt Van Whatever his name is from MLBN (the one that does the Futures Games) what they should be called maybe?

abgb123
6 years ago
Reply to  SenorGato

I don’t think it’s the talent that disgusts him or the word, more like the behavior of the teams.

antone
6 years ago
Reply to  SenorGato

I don’t think he’d like what would happen if players were FA eligible from the get-go. There’s a reason Marvin Miller and the MLBPA went with 6 years of service.

CC AFCMember since 2016
6 years ago
Reply to  antone

Because collective bargaining typically results in compromise?

Mac
6 years ago

A+ article title

Charles Bengal TigerMember since 2017
6 years ago
Reply to  Mac

This. True.

FS54
6 years ago

Instead of just a binary variable, can we see a categorical view of data? Youngest (early 20s) vs younger (mid to late 20s) vs early 30s vs mid to late 30s. Or even distinguish pre-arb vs arb- eligible vs rest. I agree with sphenreckson that this binary look just might be contenders spending on free agents vs non-contenders being cheap.

andrewj
6 years ago

Does the article say anywhere the number of players on each team under/over age 30? Since WAR is cumulative, wouldn’t a team with say 75% of the roster over age 30 be expected to have a much greater proportion of WAR accounted for by players over age 30?

rhswanzey
6 years ago

The Rockies’ team WAR is just stunning. I mean, that team has Arenado, Story and Blackmon, who are all individually better players than every player on each of three rosters that follow. But the team was barely better than any of those three teams.

That’s really incredible. How hard is it to at least patch a stars and scrubs roster.

rhswanzey
6 years ago
Reply to  rhswanzey

Like, that team should at least be ahead of White Sox and Rangers, right? This is what a contention window with a couple annual MVP candidates looks like?

Rational FanMember since 2020
6 years ago
Reply to  rhswanzey

I mean, Anderson, Giolito and Moncada are every bit as good as Arenado/Story and Blackmon at this point in their careers.

rhswanzey
6 years ago
Reply to  Rational Fan

I think I’d pick the COL trio, but I think you’re kind of making my point for me. The White Sox produced 150% the team WAR that COL did, in a rebuild year. The Rockies are about as close to the White Sox in total WAR as they are to the Marlins.

COL is trying to win now.

Rational FanMember since 2020
6 years ago
Reply to  rhswanzey

Fair enough; the rest of that roster was an abortion.

I’m not sure what’s with the down votes though:
Anderson – 3.5 WAR — Story – 5.8 WAR
Moncada – 5.7 WAR — Arenado – 5.9 WAR
Giolito – 5.1 WAR — Blackmon – 2.0 WAR

Sox – 14.3 WAR
Rocks – 13.7 WAR

willl
6 years ago
Reply to  rhswanzey

What’s especially stunning is that Blackmon is over 30, and the Rockies still had negative WAR from their 30+ players. Meaning that the rest of those over 30 were incredibly bad. In fact, there isn’t a single other 30+ player with a negligibly positive WAR (>0.1 WAR). 14 players over the age of 30 played for the Rockies in 2019. Charlie Blackmon was the only one who contributed a net positive.

The next best player was Chad Bettis (0.1 WAR who actually turned 30 during the 2019 season in April) or Yonder Alonso (0.1 WAR with the Rockies, though -1.3 WAR with the White Sox earlier in the year). Every other of the eleven 30+ contingent was in the red.

That in itself is quite a feat.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
6 years ago

It feels like the implication someone out there (whoever wrote the headline, maybe) wants us to take away from this piece is that it’s important to spend money in free agency. I don’t think the evidence here supports that. Certainly, it’s virtually impossible to win a championship with a roster that is entirely in your 20’s because it’s hard to get that many good players in the same J2/draft classes, so it’s hard to have a critical mass of 20-somethings. So yeah, it makes sense that you would need to accumulate more talent some way, through free agent signings or savvy trades or something. I don’t disagree with that conclusion.

I don’t think the author ever quite goes there, but it seems like he wants to say that we should be spending money on those Top 50 free agents. And this is where the analysis doesn’t support that conclusion: This analysis supports the idea that the teams who did better are the teams that got more value out of their free agent signings. That isn’t a surprise! Teams that got more money out of their free agent signings should do better, right? So when guys like DJ LeMahieu and Josh Donaldson and Nelson Cruz play well, their teams do better. And when Curtis Granderson and Albert Pujols and Chris Davis play worse, then their teams should do worse. The ultimate take home isn’t that you need to spend money on free agents to win, although you do probably have to do something to supplement your home-grown core. The ultimate take home is that the teams that get more out of their free agents do better than the ones who get less out of their free agents.

TheGarrettCooperFanClub
6 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Yes. I’m of the belief that free agency is for short term fixes, it should be the route you go when you don’t have a homegrown player/trade option that can give you that extra production. The thing that LeMahieu/Cruz/Donaldson/Brantley all have in common is their short contract lengths. They essentially serve as “hired guns” for their teams, and I think that’s the best way to go about free agency. if they flop, that’s okay, it’s a small commitment anyway, and flops of that nature are easier to work around than say, an Albert Pujols sized flop. and which teams are going to go after those “hired gun” types of free agents? Usually contenders. It’s too easy to say, “spend on the right free agents”, but that’s really what it is.Players 30+ still have roles in the game, but they aren’t players you really want to commit big dollars and big term to. Teams still value veterans, it’s just not the way they used to.

emh1969
6 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

“Certainly, it’s virtually impossible to win a championship with a roster that is entirely in your 20’s…”

Maybe, but it took me about 2 seconds to find the 1995 Braves. They got 96.1% of their innings pitched and 76.3% of their PAs from guys 29 and under. Their only significant 30 year old+ player was Fred McGriff (31).

sadtromboneMember since 2020
6 years ago
Reply to  emh1969

Wow, that’s really impressive.

Edit: The more I think about this, the more I realize this is evidence that we’re now deep enough into the timeframe (since free agents were an established part of the game) that relatively improbable events aren’t unheard of, simply because we’ve been doing this so long. It’s jaw dropping that the 95 Braves had that level of talent under 30.

mikesavino85
6 years ago

Bleh.

Teams have gotten smarter with projections and as such if you’re not going to contend it doesn’t make sense to buy a veteran who won’t BE there when you are contending. You don’t want Albert Pujols on your roster making it impossible to contend.

Baseball needs to fix this, though. Teams like the Rockies should absolutely be spending on some free agents but because the middle/bottom of the league is shrugging and not spending enough money on free agents, the players aren’t making as much.

Ryan DCMember since 2016
6 years ago
Reply to  mikesavino85

There is no such thing as an albatross contract, only an owner who cries poor. Having Albert Pujols hasn’t stopped the Angels from contenting, being unable or unwilling to assemble a decent pitching staff has.

Mean Mr. Mustard
6 years ago

Seems to me that there’s a tipping point, which often has to do with windows for contention.

‘Good’ old is the majority of your talent cresting at the same time, their late 20’s – early 30’s, supplemented by the older guys like Kendrick or Scherzer who are at or close to the downside of their careers.

Then there’s the ‘bad’ old, when half your roster starts missing quarter seasons for nagging pains or forgets how to swing a bat or indulged in a few too many late nights. We’ve seen the crumbling of the empire quite a bit…Ilitch Tigers, Yankees not that long ago, plenty more examples.