Thanks Rob
While I generally prefer to write about baseball rather than baseball writers, today, I’m making an exception, because as you may have heard by now, today is Rob Neyer’s last day with ESPN. And, in many ways, we owe Rob a huge debt of gratitude.
For myself and those in the 30 and under category, Rob Neyer was our Bill James. When my family got AOL in the mid-1990s, one of the first places I headed for was ESPNet SportsZone. It took forever to load, but it was a place devoted solely to sports, and far more interesting than anything I could get from the local papers, especially on the baseball side. They even had a column called Chin Muzak, written by some guy I’d never heard of, and he said crazy things.
That guy was Rob Neyer, of course, and the crazy things he was saying turned out to be right more often than they were wrong. Once I stopped rejecting his theories out of hand, I began to realize that they actually made sense. From there, it wasn’t long before I headed down the path of baseball-stat-nerdism. Thanks to Rob Neyer’s writings, I realized that my pretty decent math skills could actually be applied to the one sport I loved more than all the others.
For those of us in the Internet Generation, we missed out on Bill James‘ abstracts, but Neyer picked up the slack. It was a different medium, and a different style of writing, but just as James produced a large army of converts in the 1980s, so did Rob in the 1990s. I’m guessing that many of the people currently penning statistically slanted words about baseball on the internet were shoved in that direction due to Neyer’s writings for ESPN.
For 15 years, Rob has been something like the face of sabermetrics. He was the most prominent statnerd at the most prominent sports site, and he used that platform to shine a light on interesting work from around the web. I can’t count how many links Rob has sent to FanGraphs, for which we’re greatly appreciative, but he’s also linked to stuff I would have never found otherwise, and created interesting discussions on topics that I don’t think I would come up with on my own.
For many of us, Rob Neyer’s work at ESPN was the gateway into this little world. I’m sure that both Rob and ESPN will do just fine going forward, but this is the end of an era, so to speak, and it’s worth noting that it was one of the most fruitful eras of sports writing in the last couple of decades. The Rob Neyer Family Tree Of Writers is enormous, and I’m proud to be one small branch.
Thanks for all your hard work, Rob. We wouldn’t be here without you.
Dave is the Managing Editor of FanGraphs.
Rob Neyer’s fantastic–he was also my guide to sophisticated baseball analysis. I remember being blown away by the concept of the three true outcomes, and the idea that BABIP is nearly, if not entirely, luck. What’s he doing next?
Neyer will not be missed.
Be sure to send him a new pair of knee pads and cases of Vaseline and mouthwash for his endless worshiping of King James.
No, not the twerp in Miami. The Cyber Chump from Kansas.
Is there anyway to prevent people under the age of 13 from posting here?
Yes there is, require registration (at least for 99% of them).
Negative 63 might be a new record around here.
Unfortunately the record negative rating is probably why they do it…I almost wonder what would happen if *everyone* ignored trolls and instigators on these posts.
Neyer was one of the main reasons I discovered sabermetrics, and I’ll be eternally grateful. Good luck in your future endeavors, Rob!
Is he going to be writing somewhere else?
Yea, where’s his next stop? One of most mainstream (and best) pushers of advanced stats in sports that I can think of right now.
SBNation
Rob Neyer’s farewell openly says that you’ll be able to find where his next writing gig will be if you conduct an internet search shortly.
I need some ice cream now.
Fangraphs, quick, Jonah Keri him!
What else did you think this post is for?
SBNation already Jonah Keri’d him. Window closed.
Wow. That brings my Monday down.
Rob Neyer, thank you.
This is sad. I hope, for my own selfish reasons, he continues to write somewhere. He was my gateway into Fangraphs, The Book, and so many other awesome sites and writers. One of the smaller things I always appreciated was how he was always a good, sensible check on discourse that went too crazy in any particular direction. Thanks Rob.
Note: Anyone who doesn’t know, Rob is an awesome person to follow on Twitter.
Neyer answered my first question I ever posed on a baseball chat. I then followed up with an e-mail, which he very quickly, and thoroughly responded to. From then on, I was hooked. Thanks, Rob. Your bbwaaWAR is well over the 70 mark for me.
The first baseball book I ever bought (I got Moneyball as a gift) was Rob Neyer’s Big Book of Baseball Lineups, and it still has a featured spot on my bookshelf.
Yeah Neyer is the man. I used to write to him about things in his column all the time back in the day and half the time he’d write back. He also used to have some knee slappin’ funny old-timey baseball stories on his personal website. I look forward to seeing what he does going forward. Maybe being free of the 4 letter word will give us all something good.
Back in the day meaning when I was bored at my useless internet boom job in the late 90’s.
I started reading Rob Neyer’s column as a freshman in college in the fall of 1996. I think I was initially attracted to the contrarian nature of it – Rob was great at showing what were then new ideas to me (OPS > AVG) and presenting them as logical and easy to understand. I credit him with not only changing the way I thought about baseball and baseball writing and commentary, but about how we think of and analyze almost anything. Being a Neyer devotee meant that I got into a (still persistent) habit of never accepting conventional wisdom and always questioning the status quo.
Good luck to Rob wherever he goes. I’ll always be a fan.
Got to follow up on what Dick Whitman said. Neyer also was one incredibly quick to respond to an email I sent a few years back, with a very well thought out arguement that defended his orginal stance but admitted the merits of my mine. I remember being blown away that a writer on a stage as big as his was willing to take the time to respond to my email, which quite frankly was pretty trivial. For the first few years I subscribed to ESPN Insider it was soley because of the presence of Rob Neyer, and I hope him good fortune in his future pursuits.
He truly is one of the few statnerds that wrote and talked like a fan… like your friend who wasn’t a statnerd. He could do it all… and can do it all… and kept up with the times. Everything he does is must-read, must-scroll, must-hear, must-see content.
When I was in college in the late 90s and early aughts – to my success and detriment – I was obsessed about writing about baseball, and several times he answered my questions via e-mail and would dialogue with me about what I was researching and attempting to write. I wish I had kept up with it, since this was before FanGraphs was even a twinkle in someone’s eye.
I’m pretty sure FanGraphs couldn’t match his paygrade, and he’ll do great just on his own, but I would love to see a few guest columns come out of this.
Good luck, Mr. Neyer.
Rob Neyer introduced me to sabermetrics, and his writing led me to FanGraphs, JoPo, and other like-minded sites. I became an Insider so I could read his stuff, which at that time was behind the paywall. I continued being an Insider in large part because I wanted to support the site that was paying his salary – the SweetSpot column has been the single item on espn.com that I always make sure I have a few minutes to read.
I hope we find out where he’s going soon (like tomorrow). I’ll also be curious to see what ESPN does next – and whether this was his move or theirs.
Great stuff, Dave. I know I wasn’t part of the 90’s movement due to the fact that I was 8 and my interest lied in Power Rangers, but Rob was arguably the first writer that ever really presented saber concepts to me.
Like Dave said, I think it’s hard to pick out prominent saber writers these days without noting Rob’s influence on them, and it’s hard to imagine sites like FanGraphs and writers like Dave being as popular as they are without him. If I ever had to sit down and write up a list of guys that influenced me both as a fan and as a writer, Rob would probably be at or near the top.
We should all be grateful to have guys like Rob around this industry.
Man… I miss the Power Rangers. And not this new Power Rangers in Space crap, the original, ZEO, Ninja, and Turbo rangers. The good ole days.
Like so many others, Rob Neyer was the first sabermetric writer I read. I’ve been reading him for something like fifteen years now, so I look forward to learning his next landing spot. In the meantime, I echo Dave’s comments. Thanks, Rob and best of luck going forward.
Without Rob, how long would it have taken for OPS to become mainstream? He preached its merits for years – before any other popular internet writer than I knew of – and without him, it could’ve taken a lot longer for Sabermetrics to become widespread. He’ll be missed at espn.com, but I hope he continues writing – whether it’s for another website, or he focuses on books.
There had better be news of where he’s heading soon. I started reading Neyer in ’98, and he led me to just about ever baseball related website I enjoy today. Looking back at the end of his chat last week, it seems clear, but I certainly didn’t see this coming. This is not what I needed on my Monday.
I don’t think its a coincidence that BPro puts up a post saying there will be new faces there soon the same day that Rob leaves ESPN.
No offense FGraphs, but I’d be stoked if this were true!
Rob Neyer is why I read Fangraphs. He was also my gateway into the world of sabermetrics and for that I will always be grateful.
I’m only here because of Rob Neyer. I told him so in a reply to the article linked to above.
Is this a really awkward way of telling us that Neyer is your real father?
If it weren’t for Rob Neyer’s morals, I probably wouldn’t be alive today.
Like the rest of you, I got into Rob’s stuff back in the 90’s and loved the reference to espnet.sportszone.com. I remember when the domain moved to ESPN.com and how that actually seems incredibly recent. Let’s be honest, who here isn’t sort of thinking to themselves “he’s coming to fangraphs?” I know he loves JoPo, but simply couldn’t see him going to write there.
In the “where does Neyer end up?” pool, I will be taking Baseball Prospectus.
They’re a super-respected name that’s slipped a little with losses recently (Keri to books, then Fangraphs; Silver to 538, then NYtimes; Will Carroll to SI; others to front office jobs), and they have a subscription model that relies on must-reads to thrive. Silver, Keri, and Carroll were three of their bigger names, I think they need to reload.
And when you surf on over there, the most recent column contains this: “The page you are reading is the first in a new series of columns at Baseball Prospectus. In the coming weeks, you will be seeing many new names here, some who carry great reputations with them, others rookies and tyros in every sense of the word.”
Add on that he’d be seen as an elder statesman at BPro. He would be able to do whatever he wanted, freed from ESPN’s mandates of building the SweetSpot Network, freed from needing to do weekly chats, and given an amazing group of commenters instead of the ESPN crap.
On top of that, when he was admitted to the BBWAA along with Law as the first non-print baseball writers, the other two admits were Christina Kahrl and Will Carroll, both of BPro. I don’t know that Neyer cares thaaaat much about being in the BBWAA, but I think that moving to BPro would be a good move in terms of maintaining credibility within BBWAA (vs. say, moving to Fanhouse or something).
I also think that BPro could afford him. A lot of Neyer readers used to read him behind ESPN’s pay wall, and would be willing to subscribe if they don’t already. Hell, I’d think seriously about joining BPro if Neyer went there.
Here are the other candidates, in rough order:
His own website (his blog has launched so many people, I’m sure he could get some wicked good content on a regular basis)
Nowhere (he’ll just work on writing books, and twitter, and guest for others, and appear on Carson’s podcasts)
The SB Nation universe (a leviathan that could afford him and could use some cachet. Sickels is another James protege, Neyer gives them a headlining writer)
Fanhouse (another behemoth that could afford him and could use some brand elevation – though maybe they’re already allied with SI)
Yahoo (they’re evidently the biggest sports web portal, and have poached other former Espners)
Fangraphs (This is maybe the “obvious one,” and if I were laying odds, I’d push this line up because I think it’d get a lot of action, especially around here. I just don’t think they’re lucrative enough to be able to afford him, and having just picked up Keri, I think they’ve made their offseason push).
Sports Illustrated (I think they’re happy with JoePos filling the senior baseball writer niche)
Bill James’s site (a reunion of sorts)
The Field (Like NBCSports getting Calcaterra to build their baseball page – I’m thinking NYTimes, CBSSportsline, some random place that wants to make a splash)
I would bet against Yahoo. They are having serious problems and it looks like they will be cutting back on things outside of their core business. Plus, I think Neyer is smarter than the cumulative IQ of all the Yahoo sports writers ; I don’t see Neyer fitting in there. Fanhouse doesn’t seem like a place he’d go either. AOL isn’t exactly a growing company or a strong brand name. I’d bet on BP. I’ll seriously consider a subscription there if he is writing for them. I’m guessing many other people will as well.
Someone I was reading yesterday (TheBigLead.com, whoever they are) was saying that the word on the street has him going to SBNation. Not sure how much that rumor’s worth, but Markos Moulitsas has put some serious money behind that network, so it makes sense from a financial perspective, both for SBN and for him.
This is an end of an era. I too have been reading Rob since the late 90s. I used to look for his stuff daily wherever I could find it, it was like a drug. My brother and I would term it our daily dose of Neyer. Without a doubt the most interesting columnists I ever read on espn.com and still a mainstay for me. Without Neyer I would have been completely oblivious to a side of the game that was unknown to me and unfortunately still unknown to a great many fans. Whenever I meet a friend who still doesn’t believe in Sabermetrics I send him over to Rob’s Column. It reminds me how much his columns have influenced me. I would also love to see some guest articles on fangraphs.
Rob Neyer was my intro to sabremetrics. I’d heard of Bill James and new something about it, but Rob Neyer amde it accessible for me. He led me to The Hardball Times and Fangraphs.
So next time I complain about defensive metrics you can curse his name.
Thanks Dave for saying it more eloquently than I ever could
My sources tell me Rob is about to become the president of Egypt. Little known fact Egyptians love sabermetrics. Rob’s slogan: Allah, Ra, and Rob. We just GO together.
Unfortunately, Egypt doesn’t have internet access anymore. It will be tough to read his stuff.
Great article Dave. Rob will be missed.
It’s nice to see so many blogs attributing their love for baseball to Neyer’s ESPN articles. He really did change the way I watch baseball.
Neyer is the reason I am here. He linked to one of your articles and it took me here. He was my entrance into this world of logic in sports.
Rob actually got me onto USSMariner, Shysterball, and Fangraphs. So my employer should be glad to see him go. But I’m not. I’m sure he’ll pop back up soon. Fingers crossed.
Well, I guess I’m the old guy here, because I remember when Bill James hired Rob as his assistant. He’s a good writer, and it’s always been nice to have someone that respected in baseball and on ESPN out here in the PNW where he actually notices we have a baseball team. I just looked him up on Wikipedia and apparently I own all his books. Which says something.
Me, too. Which, thinking about his research assistants, sparks a thought: Rob Neyer we know, and John Sickels, but whatever happened to Brock Hanke?
Dave maybe you aren’t the face of sabr like Neyer seemed to be, but you got me (and I’m sure much of the under 18 crowd) thinking differently about baseball and led me into this whole world that I love so much. So thanks
“For myself and those in the 30 and under category, Rob Neyer was our Bill James.”
And for myself and those in the 20 or so, you (and Tom Tango) are our Bill James.
Confirmed: Neyer to SBN: http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2011/2/1/1967784/rob-neyer-joins-sb-nation-becomes-part-of-us-not-them
I’m old enough to have bought the Jame’s Abstracts when they first came out, starting with 1982 (ok, so I missed the self-published ones). I always liked Neyer, too. Both of them are wonderful writers aside from their baseball knowledge. And while they both puncture received wisdom and heroes, brooking no fools, they do it with warmth, humor and humanity, without a mean spirit. Best of luck to Neyer in his new position.
This could be the end of me reading ESPN’s MLB page. Neyer was the only writer left that actually provided decent content.
My favorite’s of his were all of the links that he provided on Mondays/Fridays because he found something interesting. I learned an awful lot about baseball because of those links. I’m willing to bet I found fangraphs because of him as well.
Yup. Just saved the SBNation MLB page and got rid of the MLB page.
Also, Jeff Sullivan is awesome, so, if I had to pick between a Crasnick/Stark bookmark and a Neyer/Sullivan bookmark….well…you know.
I used to like Rob Neyer quite a bit until he strongly insisted that Giants lucked into winning a world series game by double digits. Though he is from west coast, his east coast bias was visible during world series.
I continue to follow him and I enjoy reading his blogs in spite of that one blemish
I don’t know what the specific criticism was, but the giants did have a lot of luck going for them last year. As do a lot of teams that win world series. But, still, Aubrey Huff, Cody Ross, Edgar Renteria! It was awesome to watch, but, well, a little lucky too.
Rob wont be on ESPN!! Guess they wont get any more of my money. He is all I ever really wanted to read there anyway.
Very cool post, Dave. I imagine when Rob reads it, he will be very honored and you covered a lot of the sentiment from us fans as well! Thank you for writing this.
And good luck to, Rob as well, I am sure a lot of us will keep an eye out for where he lands.
Any word yet if Joe Morgan will be joining Rob at SBNation?
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