The 2019 FanGraphs Franchise Player Draft: Picks 16-30
In 2011 and 2012, FanGraphs, borrowing from ESPN, held a Franchise Player Draft. The Hardball Times revived the draft in 2017, and we thought we’d take a crack at it again now. The idea is a simple one: throwing out existing contracts, teams, and other real life sundry, which player would you most want to build a baseball franchise around if you were starting from scratch? These picks were based solely on the players’ abilities as they stand now; those participating got to decide on their own how to value wins now versus wins in the long-term. To maintain a bit of mystery for the No. 1 pick, today we’ll present picks 16-30. Tomorrow, the top half of the draft will be revealed. We hope you enjoy. — Meg Rowley
…
Ben Clemens, Pick 16: Juan Soto, Washington Nationals
I was overjoyed to see Soto still available at 16. He was in my personal top 10 — I thought there was no chance he’d fall this far. He’s still only 20, and at this point has two years worth of strong performance in the majors. He might never be a great defender, but he does so much at the plate that I don’t care. Hit for power? He has 34 extra-base hits already this year and a sterling .237 ISO. Control the plate? He walks 15.6% of the time for his career, nearly as often as he strikes out. Hit for average? He has a career .344 BABIP, and projection systems think he’ll stick around .330 for the rest of the year. It’s hard to imagine a more complete offensive player as a 20-year-old, short of Trout’s age-20 season. Maybe he won’t realize ZiPS’ lofty three-year projections, but almost no one is a better bet to be a great hitter five years from now than Soto. I considered Vlad in this spot as well, but they’re almost the same age and Soto has been excellent in the majors for longer, which I value more than Vlad’s prospect pedigree.
Sean Dolinar, Pick 17: Nolan Arenado, Colorado Rockies
My strategy for drafting a player to base a franchise around was to find a consistent performer; I also tried not to over-think this exercise. I wasn’t looking for a high-ceiling, high-variance pick like Bryce Harper or a prospect pick like Vladimir Guerrero Jr. I drafted Nolan Arenado for his consistent performance over the last three seasons: 20.8 total WAR with a standard deviation of only 0.5 WAR over that same span:
| Player | Total WAR | WAR Std |
|---|---|---|
| Mike Trout | 35.7 | 1.2 |
| Mookie Betts | 28.8 | 2.3 |
| Jose Altuve | 23.8 | 1.3 |
| Kris Bryant | 23 | 2.1 |
| Francisco Lindor | 22.8 | 1.3 |
| Josh Donaldson | 22.7 | 2.9 |
| Paul Goldschmidt | 22.5 | 0.9 |
| Joey Votto | 22.5 | 1.4 |
| Manny Machado | 21.8 | 1.7 |
| Nolan Arenado | 20.8 | 0.5 |
| Bryce Harper | 20.5 | 2.5 |
| Buster Posey | 20.1 | 1.7 |
| Christian Yelich | 20 | 1.9 |
| Jose Ramirez | 19.8 | 2.8 |
That goes along with a really solid 14.5 WAR projection from our three-year ZiPS projections, which include this current season:
| Player | Total WAR | WAR by Season (2019, 2020, 2021) |
|---|---|---|
| Mike Trout | 24.4 | 8.6, 8.1, 7.7 |
| Francisco Lindor | 21.2 | 6.9, 7.2, 7.0 |
| Mookie Betts | 19.7 | 7.0, 6.5, 6.2 |
| Jose Ramirez | 19.3 | 6.6, 6.6, 6.2 |
| Juan Soto | 19.3 | 5.1, 6.7, 7.5 |
| Alex Bregman | 16.9 | 5.7, 5.7, 5.5 |
| Manny Machado | 15.6 | 5.4, 5.2, 5.1 |
| Christian Yelich | 14.9 | 5.4, 4.8, 4.7 |
| Giancarlo Stanton | 14.5 | 5.1, 4.9, 4.5 |
| Nolan Arenado | 14.5 | 5.2, 4.8, 4.5 |
| Jose Altuve | 14.4 | 5.1, 4.8, 4.6 |
| Aaron Judge | 14.4 | 5.0, 4.8, 4.6 |
| Bryce Harper | 14.3 | 4.8, 4.9, 4.5 |
| Ozzie Albies | 14.3 | 4.1, 4.9, 5.3 |
I personally value consistency over ceiling in many aspects of life, and I believe that is a good philosophy to start a franchise, since I would want to build a solid team and support from the city.
Craig Edwards, Pick 18: Vladimir Guerrero Jr., Toronto Blue Jays
When it came time to pick, I was deciding between a group of proven sluggers heading to their late-20s or a potential phenom who hadn’t yet reached his 21st birthday. While Bryce Harper, Aaron Judge, and Kris Bryant were tempting, the trio has a combined seven more seasons in their 20s after this year, while Vladimir Guerrero Jr. has nine such seasons. If we had had this draft at some point last year or during the preseason, Guerrero would have been a much higher pick. I wasn’t going to let a rough 10-game stretch to kick off his major league career sway me.
Right now, Guerrero has a high walk rate, a low strikeout rate, and good power in a so-so half-season. He has the potential to be one of the game’s best hitters for a full decade, something I can’t possibly say about my other potential picks. He might not stick at third base, but his bat is so advanced at such a young age that he should anchor a lineup and provide a ton of wins regardless of his position. There were safer picks, but none with the same sort of long-term upside that could define a franchise.
Rachael McDaniel, Pick 19: Pete Alonso, New York Mets
Denied the physical and social benefits of actually playing a sport on a team, we hook our greedy fingers into random and talented strangers, leeching artificial feelings of fulfillment and joy from accomplishments to which we are wholly unconnected, passing our days in endless circular argument about which of these random strangers are good or bad — getting angry when they are bad, getting angry when someone we declared to be bad turns out to be good, angry when people are wrong about the game, angry about what’s wrong with the game, angry about other people getting angry about what’s wrong with the game. Forgetting why we ever thought this was fun. Waking up tired every morning.
Pete Alonso, a huge, powerful young man with a friendly smile, hits the baseball very hard and very far. He does this again and again and again, and he does not seem to be tired of it yet.
Jay Jaffe, Pick 20: Corey Seager, Los Angeles Dodgers
At number 20, the most obvious choices — at least based on my interpretation of this exercise, and the need to balance short-term versus long-term concerns — were off the board, which is to say those who combine youth, high performance, and durability at a skill position. The players I strongly considered for this spot have all missed substantial time due to injuries over the past couple of seasons, namely Kris Bryant, Carlos Correa, Aaron Judge, and Seager; these apples all have some bruises. Bryant and Judge are both 27, which isn’t a problem if I’m drafting Mike Trout or thinking solely about a 2019-21 time frame, but if I’m looking beyond that window, I’d prefer to go younger, and the chance to select a franchise-centerpiece shortstop was too great to pass up. That the 25-year-old Seager was the majors’ most valuable shortstop by WAR in 2016-17, before his Tommy John and hip surgeries, and that he has generally held the defensive edge over Correa, led me to pick him despite him being five months older.
Justin Mason, Pick 21: Javier Baez, Chicago Cubs
After failing to trade up into the top 20 or down to gain more picks, I was really hoping that some of the other players who went earlier in the draft would fall to me at 21. Ultimately, I decided to go with Javier Baez. Baez is a nice player to build around. He plays plus defense at a premium position with the ability to play a number of other spots on the diamond and is an offensive powerhouse. He is still just 26 years old and is already one of the more recognizable players in the majors from a marketing perspective. Being able to lock down shortstop for the next 5-10 years with a stud player makes the rest of my franchise’s roster that much easier to construct.
Ariel Cohen, Pick 22: Aaron Judge, New York Yankees
Since I’m a projections guy at heart, the first piece of information I set out to gather was a projected WAR leaderboard. For this, I turned to the ZiPS projected WAR for the next 2.5 years (2019 ROS, 2020, and 2021). With the 22nd pick, the top options remaining were: Jose Ramirez (14.9 WAR), Chris Sale (13.5), Jacob deGrom (12.1), Ozzie Albies (11.7), Bryce Harper (11.4), Aaron Judge (11.4), and Kris Bryant (11.3).
I did not want to select a pitcher, for they exhibit far more risk in the long-term. The fact that both Sale and deGrom are over 30 years of age helped to confirm my feelings to shy away. Other than Albies, the rest of the players on the WAR leaderboard were all around 26-27 years of age. I gave Ozzie heavy consideration, but instead, I decided to go with the Yankee superstar.
With 50-homer upside each year and a high on-base propensity, Judge is a Statcast darling who knocks the cover off the ball when he makes contact — he boasts a near-50% hard-hit rate. He also has a fantastic outfield arm.
All rise for my franchise player selection – Aaron Judge.
Shelly Verougstraete, Pick 23: Xander Bogaerts, Boston Red Sox
I was excited to be asked to participate in the Draft, and then I saw my draft slot. Pick 23 out of 30?! I figured that everyone I really wanted would be gone by then. (I miss you, Alex Bregman.)
When it was my time to select, I knew I wanted to go with a hitter over a pitcher. Building a baseball franchise around a pitcher is far too risky in my opinion. There were quite a few interesting young hitters available when it was my turn to pick. I decided to pass on Carlos Correra and Trevor Story, mainly due to their annual injured list stints. I also decided to pass on Bryce Harper; even though I could probably procure some shampoo sponsorship for my ballpark, his hitting profile had me running scared.
So I decided to start my franchise with Xander Bogaerts. He’s having a breakout season this year. His lowest season WAR is 3.2, which is nothing to sneeze at. He also plays all the time (his 136 games played in 2018 was a career-low), which is something you want in a franchise player.
Meg Rowley, Pick 24: Kris Bryant, Chicago Cubs
Exercises like this serve as an opportunity for me to grapple with my own cowardice. I long to make bold picks, striking picks, picks that are maligned by readers in the comments, but which, when they prove to be correct, suggest a deep well of wisdom, of baseball-knowing. Of prescience. But the thing is, I’m a scaredy-cat. I could say it is an attempt not to get too-cute, but that would be mendacity in service of pusillanimousness. But then you get pick 24, and things get simpler. You can’t feel guilty about how you lacked the fortitude to take an exciting but still largely unproven prospect when those exciting but still largely unproven prospects are already off the board. Instead, you turn to someone more reliable, someone unlikely to make you look immediately silly. You turn to Kris Bryant.
Since debuting in 2015, Bryant’s 26.6 WAR is third among qualified position players behind only Mike Trout and Mookie Betts; his 141 wRC+ is 11th. This season, he’s on his way to setting a new career low in strikeout percentage and tying a career-best wRC+. Perhaps more importantly, Bryant is fully healthy, after missing large chunks of 2018 and 2019 with shoulder inflammation that also swapped him of power. The injury history remains something of a concern, but even with that concern baked in, at 11.3 WAR, he’s still 17th in our three-year ZiPS projections, 14th among position players, and behind only Jose Ramirez, Ozzie Albies, and Bryce Harper among those position players still available at this pick, and even then, only by a hair.
This late in the draft, I considered a few pitchers who would better fit a win-now approach and anchor a franchise keen on quick contention, but when it came to it, I figured that Bryant afforded a chance for plenty of wins now and, as a 27-year-old position player, many wins later. Bryant is both good and affable, and at 24, feels like an excellent pick. And not just because I’m a scaredy-cat.
Alex Chamberlain, Pick 25: Blake Snell, Tampa Bay Rays
One could argue, given both the proliferation of hitters already drafted and of surprise breakout hitters recently, it’s easier than ever to find or develop a franchise cornerstone off the bump. Conversely, it’s harder than ever to identify young pitchers who could provide 2,000 elite innings over the next decade à la Max Scherzer or Justin Verlander.
At first glance, Snell and his 4.70 ERA don’t exactly fit the bill. I attribute such atrocity to the baseball gods’ wrath: Snell’s absurdly good luck in 2018 portended absurdly bad luck in 2019, validated by metrics both conventional (BABIP, strand rate) and new-age (xwOBA). Truth is, few, if any, other aces possess Snell’s rare combination of relative youth, filthy secondaries, and solid command. Snell’s swinging strike rate (18.7%) is the highest ever by a starter in a season’s first half. No one else has ever eclipsed 17%.
What Snell lacks is a truly elite fastball, a trademark of the success of Scherzer, Verlander, Jacob deGrom, Chris Sale, Gerrit Cole, and, namely, fellow youngster Walker Buehler. Said fastball is upper quartile, but it remains to be seen how well it ages. Still, Snell is as good a bet as anyone to pull a Verlander henceforth.
Brad Johnson, Pick 26: Bryce Harper, Philadelphia Phillies
I entered this exercise looking for three things – talent, youth, and a certain degree of media presence. Ideally, your star player is also a fan favorite. He sells seats and jerseys just by virtue of being on the team.
The perfect pick according to that criteria – Vladimir Guerrero Jr. – wasn’t available this late in the draft. I was forced to compromise on my list of wants, leaving me with a choice of Harper or Trevor Story. Harper, sans contract, promises a good four or more years of solid performances on the field to go with a powerful media presence. The fans shouldn’t be nearly as bitter about his slumps since I’ve magically reset his service clock and contract.
While this is a one-round endeavor, having Harper as the anchor probably pushes me towards a win-now mindset. In fantasy dynasty drafts, core performing veterans tend to be quite affordable. While my preference is to build for the long term, I didn’t really have that as an option.
Al Melchior, Pick 27: Trevor Story, Colorado Rockies
The players I was considering at the 27th pick were Trevor Story, Jose Ramirez, and Freddie Freeman. Freeman is the most accomplished of the three, as he is on pace for his fourth 5.0-plus WAR season. At 29, he could have a few more of these, but with Story and Ramirez being three years younger, I ruled him out. If we did this draft before the season started, I certainly would have taken Ramirez here, but now that he has had a solid year of diminished production, I settled on Story.
The reason I was somewhat hesitant to pick Story is likely the same reason he fell to the final picks of this draft: the time he missed with injuries in 2016 and 2017, and the elbow inflammation that turned up last September. Still, Story is worth the risk, as he could be a 30-20 home run hitter for at least a few more years. He gets the benefit of playing in Coors Field and is restrained enough in his pull tendencies to hit .280 or higher with a .350 OBP, all while providing solid defense.
Dan Szymborski, Pick 28: Carlos Correa, Houston Astros
For about a half-dozen picks, my plan was to take Walker Buehler in this spot; that was out of the belief that Carlos Correa would be off the board by this point. When he was not, there was no way I could pass up the opportunity.
Talking about Correa as an elite, young player almost seems passé these days. It has somehow been forgotten that Correa still hasn’t even turned 25 and has been worth five WAR per 150 games. The “per 150 games” provides a big clue to his standing in our draft, as Correa’s injury history isn’t a positive. He missed significant time in both 2017 and 2018, and now agan in 2019 after a rib injury, though it at least appears to be of the freak variety.
Before the broken rib, Correa seemed to be back on track, hitting .290/.360/.547 with a 141 wRC+ and 1.8 WAR in 50 games. 2018 was a definite down year, but the nagging back problems no doubt contributed to his unusual struggles in the field.
As a pitcher, Correa’s injury history would frighten me. As a hitter, I’m not at the stage yet where it could cause me to downgrade him enought to knock him out of the top 30.
Jeff Zimmerman, Pick 29: Jose Ramirez, Cleveland Indians
Once Dan drafted Carlos Correa, I knew I would not feel good about my choice. Like almost everyone, I was looking to take a young hitter at a premium defensive position. I was considering Trea Turner, Rhys Hoskins, and Royce Lewis, but I went with what I knew to be a controversial choice in Jose Ramirez.
If this draft had happened preseason, I would have not been surprised if Ramirez were a top 10 pick. Over the previous three seasons, his 19 WAR was the fourth highest total among hitters. Over the last two seasons, it was 15 WAR (third highest). Even taking into account his horrendous first half to his 2019 season, his three-and-half-year total ranks eighth. He had been one of the league’s best players — until 2019.
This year, his 70 wRC+ is the seventh-lowest among qualified hitters, but his rest-of-season WAR projection places him as the 11th-highest. So how much does recency bias needs to be weighed when making a choice for the future? That’s the big question. This pick doesn’t seem to have a middle ground. It’s either boom (all gets fixed) or bust (he remains a Billy Hamilton clone) for Ramirez. I’m willing to gamble on a rebound.
Kiley McDaniel, Pick 30: Rafael Devers, Boston Red Sox
This exercise makes the thinking baseball man (I’m occasionally one of those) lean toward the youngest hitter with some defensive value and years of proven offensive production. That narrowed things quickly to Devers, Ozzie Albies, and Yoan Moncada. I flirted with some different types like the now-ace (Gerrit Cole, Jacob deGrom, Chris Sale, Max Scherzer), the ace-on-the-come-up (Walker Buehler, Aaron Nola), the mature hitter (J.T. Realmuto, Freddie Freeman, George Springer, Trea Turner, Marcus Semien), or the un-categorizable Ketel Marte.
Ultimately, there’s a reason conventional wisdom says to take the young, multi-dimensional hitter, and Devers has the best combination of now and future offense and defense that’s still on the board. I don’t have to worry about my top pick losing effectiveness in a couple years, having bat-only profile pressure, or getting hurt and disappearing for a year or more. Him going particularly bonkers in the last few weeks also doesn’t hurt. While I’m more publicly tied to Moncada and Albies, my personal interaction with Devers was delightful in exactly the way that I’d hoped it would be. Devers also allows me to continue my patronage of elite pro athletes with the bodies of normal people.
Picks 1-15 will follow tomorrow.
Good job Wendy in 2012
I’m really interested in how the picks in 2012 to see how they turned out, and I think they could have some relevance for the picks in this piece.
Basically, picks #1, #3, and #5-7 were all guys in their late 20s who were already at their absolute peak. I don’t think a single one of those picks would have turned out that well. The picks that really won big were guys who hadn’t yet hit the big-time; Harper and Trout (which was well before they became stars in the majors), Stanton, McCutchen, and Kershaw, who were clearly all on the ascent.
So based on this, I’m a little annoyed that Vlad Jr made it all the way to #22, and that Soto made it all the way to #16, and Devers sliding all the way to the bottom of the first round. And to a lesser extent, it’s a mistake to have Pete Alonso or Correa (age 24) lasting this long.
I’m going to guess that Acuna got picked pretty high, and Bellinger (age 23) did too. Those probably should be, at worst, 2 of the top 3 picks. But Soto and Vlad Jr. shouldn’t make it out of the top 10, and Devers, Correa, and Alonso probably shouldn’t either and definitely shouldn’t have made it to this section.
Just realized Upton was 24 in 2012. So I walk that back–that pick was definitely defensible, even in retrospect.
Justin Upton became a god in every franchise mode I ever played in every video game ever. What a shame that he’s been merely very good in real life.
I’m more confused by Soto than Vlad. If you look hard enough there are concerns about Vlad (i mean, relatively speaking. We are basically talking about the 30 best players in MLB here so its all nit picking) like where he will play and i think you have to be a bit concerned about the weight as well. Then there is the fact that Soto has already done it and we are still waiting for Vlad too do it.
Soto though, I dont know how he makes it past the first 5-7 picks to be honest.
Because his value comes almost entirely from his bat and it’s probably not going to get much if any better than it is right now. ~4.8 WAR per season is very good, but the players at the top of the list are doubling that.
Even better job Carson Cistulli 2011. When he was still in AA, a month before his MLB debut. Teh comments on that pick were probably reasonable at the time, but in retrospect are hilarious.
Shout out to the homie Paul Sporer.
tbh basically all his opinions in the comments were quite bad
Carson looks like a genius with that #3 pick for Trout, but the more I think about it, the more I dislike it.
We need to work with the information in June 2011 and while we now know that Ryan Zimmermann did not have the career we expected, picking Trout over players like Zimmermann and Votto seems like an unnecessary risk.
The comments from that article are hilarious in retrospect!
Some guy said Chris Sale should have been taken, and there’s like 15 comments ridiculing even suggesting that.
Then just after that someone’s criticizing taking Arenado at #30, with a +16 rating and another dozen comments agreeing with how bad of a pick Arenado is. It’s especially fun, when people are advocating for Sandoval, Wright and H. Ramirez instead!!
To the FG commentariat’s credit, there’s quite a few criticizing the Starlin Castro and Jay Bruce picks.
But my favorite overall comment is probably this one:
smb
I bet in five years it’ll look like Ackley could’ve easily made this list.
7 years ago
Sorry, smb, you lost that bet.
Also, who was it at ESPN who picked Trout before he even played a major league game? I know it wasn’t Rick Sutcliffe lol….
Remember in 2011 when Carson drafted Mike Trout 3rd overall and a commenter used that as evidence that poets don’t belong writing about baseball?
Fangraphs has smartly hired more MFAs since then!
The Mets should hire Ocean Vuong and begin a decade long run of NL dominance.
I want to see who went ahead, but I really like Soto at 16.
The reason I love Meg is using the word pusillanimousness (and also her great baseball writing/editing in general obviously).
The 2012 “draft” is pretty fun. Matt Kemp at #1 seems ridiculous, and the hamstring injury mentioned in the write-up turned out to mark the start of the end of his above average player days, let alone superstar level. Harper at #2 seems defensible, but I wouldn’t even consider him this year – he looks way too much like all of the older regrettable picks from 2012. Tulo at #3 had only a couple of very good injury shortened years left. Longoria (#5) declined a bit immediately, and never had another MVP-type year; not terrible I guess. Braun at #6 had a certain…issue…and has never been a top player again. But most of the guys picked are at least still playing, which is something I guess.
Hindsight is great of course, but I don’t think any method has been developed yet to pick up which players are likely to maintain a MVP-level. I think with statcast data on hitters, this isn’t likely to be much better. Throughout baseball history, players having “breakout” years have done it by choosing better pitches to hit, hitting the ball harder, and at more productive angles. I don’t having quantifiable numbers to put next to these hot streaks is going to end up mattering a whole lot.
Oh, and avoiding pitchers (only 4 of the 30 picks) seem less defensible when you look at cumulative WAR from 2012-2019. Trout aside, the top ends of the lists look pretty similar in terms of total WAR, once you factor in that there are twice as many position player spots as starting pitchers. Take a Cy Young level pitcher before an all-star level position player, I would think.
Arenado at 30 is a steal
And it was a pick that was widely criticized by the readers!
It’s pretty clear reading the old drafts that a common mistake was thinking that if a player was a top 10 player in the game and 27-29ish that they would continue being good value for a while. The best picks were the guys who had great success really early, or who were slam-dunk can’t miss prospects.
So if you want to pick Mike Trout, go ahead because that makes sense, he’s unreal and 27. But otherwise you should be picking guys like Vlad Jr., Acuna, and Soto.
Top 15 guesses in some order:
Trout, Acuna, Bellinger, Bregman, Lindor, Betts, Machado, Yelich, Altuve, Chapman, Torres, Tatis…and I’m stuck on the last 3. Shocked that Albies didn’t go in the top 30.
Potential additions to the rrgleason list:
– Gary Sanchez (better catcher than given credit for, even if the framing is down, and that bat will play anywhere)
– Yordan Alvarez (small sample size, but a freakishly good one. Plus a sprinkle of recency bias).
– Joey Gallo – young, enormous bat, and a non liability on the bases and in the field. Well suited for the current era.
Rendon is approaching 30 – I’d go younger and healthier – but elite.
Eloy feels like a modest stretch given where Vladito went. (And I feel like the Vladito spot also makes Wander Franco unlikely).
Trea Turner would feel aggressive but not completely out of the question. Same with Benintendi (who is still quite young).
We know it’s not Sale or DeGrom or Buehler from the arm side. And I can’t see it being one of the old guys. Maybe Gerrit Cole? He wouldn’t be my choice, but I guess it’s a possibility.
For pitchers: Chris paddock, Calib Smith, and Sean Bieber deserve mention.
It is a huge mistake to be taking Kris Bryant over Ozzie Albies. Albies is on track for a 4-win season in his age-22 season. Since 2000, there are only 33 seasons in total that match that in age 22 or less, and lots of those are repeats (Albert Pujols, Mike Trout, Jason Heyward, Bryce Harper).
The purpose of this draft isn’t to find the last Mookie Betts, but the next one.
Albies is the biggest miss of this whole exercise. Soto falling to 16 is second.
Okay, okay, obviously 5-7 years from now looking back there will be bigger misses. But based on the information we have today and the likelihood of different outcomes, I can’t understand why these two players weren’t taken earlier.
Look at the list of ZIPS projected three year WAR that Sean Dolinar posted. They’re the only two players on that list under age 25… and they’re 22 and 20!
So aside from the obvious statement that things happen and Albies isn’t a lock to be a star or even maintain his current production, I think that the biggest reason for leaving him off is because he’s a small guy and won’t physically mature. But even if he just improves by getting more experienced (which we would expect because he’s 22!), he’ll be a real star, and he’s already not that far off.
I’d add Ohtani to the list as well
Yes, of course. Great point.
He just turned 25; he’s – amazingly – been a better hitter (wRC+) than guys like Judge, Bellinger, Soto, Acuna, Bryant, Machado, Hoskins, and Rendon; he’s a surprisingly solid baserunner; and – oh yeah – he’s very credibly one of the top 25 starting pitchers on the planet.
He’s actually a non-terrible choice as a hitter OR a pitcher. Together it’s a complete layup.
Ohtani for sure.
And he has the international appeal. Put it all together and he’s top 10 for sure, possibly top 5.
11 of your (rrgleason’s) 12 are no-doubters I’d say. One more no-doubter that you missed is Ohtani.
First 12 picks I’m thinking will look something like:
Trout (27), Acuna (21), Bellinger (23), Yelich (27), Bregman (25), Ohtani (25), Lindor (25), Betts (26), Tatis (20), GTorres (22), Machado (27), MChapman (26)
Altuve’s the odd one out from your list I think. He’s 29 and struggling. No 29 year olds were taken in the top 15 back in 2012 (Braun, Tulo, and Votto were 28. Kemp was 27. Longoria was 26). I’d be surprised if somebody picked him (or Rendon, same age).
Still leaves me in the same place as you though – stuck on the last three. Joey Gallo (25) probably, Josh Bell (26) maybe? Luis Castillo (26)? Yordan Alvarez (22)? There are a lot of players taken in the 16-30 portion I’d have taken way before any of them though. No way I’m taking the risk on Gary Sanchez (26). Franco (18) is a great prospect but he’s too far away. Eloy (22) and Benintendi (25) are the right age and are fine players, but how can you possibly take either of them ahead of Soto or even Ozzie Albies, who are both younger? Berrios (25) and Giolito (24) are solid young pitchers but neither has shown quite enough yet (but then again, has Castillo? I’d take Buehler over any of them).
Big takeaway: Soto fell way too far, and Albies and Buehler not being taken at all are shocking misses.
(we know none of the following were taken: Albies, Buehler, Moncada, GCole, Nola, deGrom, Scherzer, Hoskins, TTurner, Sale, Realmuto, Freeman, Springer, Semien, KMarte, RLewis)
Machado is one of the tougher projections to me, he’s obviously had MVP caliber seasons, but in his last 153 games since coming over to the NL, he’s had a 118 wRC+ and been worth 4.3 wins, 2.4 of those coming with the Dodgers when he played SS, not 3B.
He’s played SS for 36 games this year too, and he’s still only been worth 1.9 WAR with a WAR+ZIPS ROS total of 3.9. It’s weird, because he’s obviously a great defensive player at 3B with the ability to handle SS, but it kinda feels like this is what he is, more than the 3 years of 6+ WAR in Baltimore.
I say that because his career/162 game average slash is .281/.336/.487 and his line in the past 153 games with the Dodgers and Padres is .269/.338/.488…that’s what’s so weird, he’s been incredibly consistent overall, but with some swings in value year to year. That said, to me it feels very reasonable to expect 4-4.5 win seasons from him the next few years, which still has significant value, it’s just not the 6 win MVP candidate he has been in the past. But maybe you’re buying the upside that he goes back to that for a year or two over the next five. Then again, there’s some downside that he has a 2-3 win year too. The ZIPS 2020+ projections for him are also over 5 wins, so maybe I’m way off too.
I’d just probably rather have Buehler who has more present value (at least by fWAR) at a younger age. As many others have said too, I’d expect Soto to be higher as well, based on his significantly stronger offensive performance,to this point, at a younger age, and the hope that the variability of defensive numbers swings in his favor at some point soon, even buying the under on the ZIPS future projections.
By no-doubter I mean the players who will no doubt be in that top 15. Not necessarily the no doubt best choices for this exercise. I agree I’d personally rather have a bunch of players from the 16-30 range (and a couple who missed the cut completely, like Buehler and Albies) over Machado. Based on the look-back at the 2012 results, there just aren’t a lot of mid-late 20s players who worked out. So my preference is absolutely going to be to aim young.
That said, he is still only barely 27 and has three superstar seasons under his belt, and he plays very good defense at a semi-premium position (with the ability to play a premium one). Even if 4-4.5 WAR per year is his new normal, you could do a lot worse. When starting a franchise, building around a guy like Machado is a pretty strong statement and foundation, even acknowledging that he’s not going to carry you all the way into the late 2020s.
To say those late 20’s guys “didn’t work out” is a bit too much. They just weren’t the absolute top players in the game, which is the point of this exercise, but they were still perfectly good and productive players for the most part.
So no Moncada? Weird stuff.
Kiley said he considered Moncada at 30. So he definitely wasn’t taken in the top 15.
The comments on the old drafts are incredible to read now.
But BookWorm probably should have been hired by the Angels. In reference to Pujols:
“Ten years is a long time. Can you build for ten years around a guy currently playing in his age 32 season?”
Hindsight has not been kind to the Angels.
re: Pujols and old guys, if he had chosen Adrian Beltre instead, he would have gotten a top-10 position player by WAR since 2011.
I mean, don’t draft a 30-something here anyway, but bow down to Beltre.
Reminder:
Ronald Acuna, Jr., is hitting .293/.371/.531, 137 wRC+ in his career.
Juan Soto is hitting .294/.373/.531, 135 wRC+ versus left-handed pitching in his career.
Soto (and to a lesser degree, Correa) falling that far was a shock to me.
I think recency bias is powerful here (and Dan got a steal). If this draft – which is ostensibly supposed to cover the next decade – was held two months ago, Correa would be a guy on his way to his third 5-war season in four years, as a solid defender at an up the middle position, who doesn’t even turn 25 until around the end of the season.
I don’t trust his choice in massage parlors, but I think he’s being under-rated here.
I misread this at first as you didn’t trust Dan’s choice in massage parlors, and I was thinking: Did I miss something?
For what it’s worth, just as I don’t trust Dan’s choice of massage parlors, I don’t trust Correa’s choice of chili. But I trust both Dan and Correa when it comes to future baseball performance.
Swell. Soto’s also a liability on the basepaths and in the field, which is why Acuna has a small but clear WAR advantage.
Can’t really go wrong with either of them as franchise players, but Acuna deserves the edge.
That’s fair although I’d argue that a left-handed hitter who’s performed at a 135 wRC+ clip in lefty-lefty matchups in his MLB career, is 20 years old, has extremely strong plate discipline metrics, and whose upper minor league experience is 8 games at Double-A has a very real chance to be a generational talent.
Interestingly, Acuna dynamism reminds me of young Barry Bonds and Soto’s skill set reminds me of old Barry Bonds.
Juan Soto is Joey Votto redux. He’ll be at 1B soon enough, possibly 2020. Then there will be no difference at all.
I can’t tell from tone in comments sections, but that sounds disparaging but I’ll just mention that 1.) Votto is a borderline Hall of Famer and 2.) Soto’s age 20 season will be statistically better than Votto’s age 20 season of .301/.413/.499 which was accomplished between Low-A and High-A. Isn’t it not unreasonable to believe that Soto’s ceiling is higher than even Joey Votto’s 2010 MVP season (.309/.416/.600, 172 wRC+)?
I don’t think it’s mean to sound disparaging. I’m one of the other commenters (there are at least 2 of us, probably more) who have been pushing the Soto-Votto comparison for a while. I don’t think anyone is disparaging Soto or Votto in this.
My take is something like this: “Soto is going to be the best pure hitter since Votto, who was probably the best pure hitter since Wade Boggs, who was probably the best pure hitter since Ted Williams, who was the best pure hitter ever.” I wouldn’t be surprised if Soto has a higher peak than Votto, but I don’t think that’s meant as disparaging to either of them.
I’m a huge fan of Wade Boggs and not so much of Tony Gwynn, but it feels like the two of them should probably be running neck and neck for that recognition.
That’s fair. That era actually had a ton of excellent pure hitters. George Brett was a little before them but overlapped quite a bit. Don Mattingly and Mark Grace were also pretty good too.
Some people might also put an intermediate era in between Ted Williams and the Boggs era hitters like Rod Carew and Pete Rose, but frankly I think the Boggs-era hitters were better.
I definitely considered Carew; he was an artist at bunting. But all he really did was hit singles. A lot of them. To me, that kinda suggests that he only wanted to dink the ball rather than put a good swing on it. Not saying that’s a bad thing; he was clearly successful at it.
Like the mention of Grace – he was certainly underappreciated. I was a little sad when he left the Cubs. Same with Will Clark and the Giants (even though boooo S.F.)
I think people probably forget that for a couple of years there, Mike Greenwell was incredible with a bat.
“…has a very real chance to be a generational talent.”
I’m always curious when people say this what their definition of “generational” is. What are your benchmarks for this, particularly given Soto’s short tenure in MLB and the fact that he’s arguably not even in the top 3 of a group of recent young stars to hit the league (Beuhler, Acuna, Tatis, Vlad, etc.)?
For me, generational has to be an obnoxiously high bar to even discuss, and typically takes several years to be able to see. The only real exception to this is Trout, who eclipses ‘generational’ entirely (being that he’s basically the modern game’s Babe Ruth in terms of likely long-term legacy).
My quick list from 2000 (debut) to now: Cabrera, Pujols, Kershaw, Ichiro (stretching the debut definition a bit, but worth it), and Trout.
Not knocking your suggestion of Soto on that list eventually, by the way, I’m genuinely curious. He’s been impressive, but is he the most likely out of the young studs to be considered generational?
I’ll skip the more-complex “generational talent” definition for now. I wonder if Soto’s skillset lends itself to underappreciation. He has old man skills: poor defense, strong walk rate, etc., He isn’t as fast, athletic, toolsy, powerful, etc., as these other guys but aside from Fernando Tatis, Jr.’s .419 babip in 234 MLB plate appearances, Soto is outperforming these young stars offensively.
I feel like Bryant gets really undersold here (and many other places) compared to Arenado. Last year is the only year in Bryant’s career where Arenado has topped him in WAR, and it seems to me that Bryant has a profile that will age better.
Very tall, thick guys who are already playing bad D age well?
I’m not a fan of Arenado in this exercise, either, btw.
This severely underrates Bryant’s athleticism
He’s totally healthy this year and his fielding numbers, by any adv. metric, are below avg. Also, he has a total of 3 SB vs. 4 CS in the past two seasons. That’s not the mark of someone who will maintain agility into his 30s.
Great hitter, but future first baseman.
He doesn’t steal bases but he’s an excellent base runner. 13th in BsR since 2015. Part of that is avoiding DPs, which is a combination of base running and fly balls, but he’s also 11th in UBR. His 28.1 ft/s sprint speed is also well above average. Meanwhile Arenado is well below average at 26.0 ft/s. Speed ages well even if Bryant’s not stealing bases.
He’s also not a bad fielder at third – getting jammed into corner outfield spots where he’s not as good is the issue. He’s at 0 DRS and 1.7 UZR on the year and grades out about average there over his career. I’m not sure how that counts as bad.
And then most importantly his plate discipline metrics are similar to people who age better. High walk rate guys who hit for power generally age well.
When he was younger he was fast, somehow the speed left him just as quickly as it appeared.
Kris Bryant ranks 6th of 52 among all 3rd basemen in average sprint speed…he may have lost a step but he still possesses good speed and has incredible base-running instincts
He posted a negative bsr last year, and simply ranking him 3rd baseman when he also plays the outfield seems weird at best. He is behind Bryce Harper on the list, and one spot ahead of Andujar at 111. His speed has declined every year since 2015 by both speed score and peak speed.
Really, it’s a no-brainer who should be the #1 pick.
Ohtani (150 wRC+ in 400 PA & 3.30 ERA in 150 IP)
400 + 150X3.2 =880 PA
880 PA + easily the highest positional adjustment (the pitcher is at the very top of the defensive spectrum and getting a dangerous middle-of-the-order hitter and a front-line starter out of one roster spot is extremely valuable.)
For posterity, I’d like the record to show that I support this comment.
There’s certainly some injury risk in that elbow, and while he’s still 25, don’t forget that there were 500+ IP in Japan to tack on to his baseline.
That said, while the samples are small, he’s certainly displayed his dynamism in the opportunities he’s gotten. The value of both inputs at full strength is massive, and certainly worth a risk. Not sure about #1, but I don’t think top 3-5 is a stretch for those bold enough.
I think the people downvoting (I didn’t) objected to one of the following:
1) Acuna, Bellinger, and Trout are all great for various reasons, and reasonable bets to outproduce Ohtani based on age/hitting prowess (Ohtani is already 25).
2) The math is totally wrong. Assuming Ohtani is healthy for the next 10 years–a very risky assessment for a pitcher who throws that hard and also bats to boot–he’s only getting a maximum of 75ish PAs as a pitcher even if he plays in the National League. The rest of the time, and all of the time he plays in the AL, he’s a DH, where his positional adjustment screws him.
That said, I do think he’s worthy of some consideration, since if he’s a 4-win pitcher and 2.5 win hitter, which is basically what his hitting has been like this year and pitching was like last year, he’s a Top 10 player in major league baseball, plus some upside. So yeah, I think 3-5 is a pretty reasonable place for him too, but that’s not what the comment said.
I am hoping they turn him into a relief pitcher. That bat is possibly top 5-10 in the entire MLB, there is no real reason to have him lose 200+ at bats imo. Why not have him in a Hader roll? They have other position players who pitch as well (Walsh, etc) to lessen losing DH so maybe they have the same idea in mind?
Ohtani is great, but certainly not a no-brainer, and I wouldn’t be completely shocked to see him outside the top 5.
Trout is still the #1 pick for me.
Guys – why isn’t this arranged in order of #30 being the first one you read?
In fact, the very first comment is “I was surprised at Player still being available”, which references things that you need to have read before for context, which are all further down in the article!
You need to do some re-arranging, or at least, make sure tomorrow’s post is a countdown. No one is going to want to read who the #1 pick is right away!
No you’re misreading. The draft went 1-30. If you read the first paragraph of this article, they make clear that they’re starting with the back half of the draft to not spoil the first half. They can’t do it as a countdown, because the picks went 1-30. It would make no sense for them to somehow pick the 30th best pick first and move on from there.
I don’t know why this is getting downvoted when it makes sense. The list is in order of the draft. You’re going to see #1 first because that’s the first pick. It’s not a countdown. The reason the first comment talks about Soto being available is because he wasn’t picked in the first 15 picks, not because of what comes after.
Exactly. Everyone is writing about why they’re making the pick at that time. Like the example StroShow gives is “I was surprised at player being available.” …well that would only make sense if we started at 1 and went to 30. Releasing this in two chunks is awkward, but the way it’s written only makes sense if we start towards pick 1 and move down in the order they are drafted.
Yep, it’s almost unreadable as a draft in this format
Yeah, some of the comments on the 2012 article did NOT age well. Jesus Montero says hi.
I’m very proud of my comments on that post. But I’d guess Oasis might regret calling me an “idiot” for arguing that Trout was a better pick than Harper.
beyond the Trout stuff, all of the crapping on Machado sticks out.
I’m curious if any of the pretend owners took into consideration that Ozzie Albies is prone to signing away several years of free agency for pennies on the dollar. From a purely capitalistic (and perhaps immoral) standpoint, that moves him way up the list for me.
Too soon
He has hit RHP lately, so maybe he should be higher. The concern was that he couldn’t hit RHP
Reading the 2012 draft and the comments is fantastic.
I don’t know who Nitram Odarp is, but that person was wrong on multiple players…and not just wrong, but pompously wrong.
I think reading those comments is lesson to those who post here with so much certainty. It can be very embarrassing later on when you have to read how wrong you were…archived for the world to see for all time!
Special kudos to Wendy Thurm and Howard Bender. And poster with the name of “Dude” with his take on Sale. Golf clap to you.
Maybe it wasn’t just his screen name that was backwards?
Choice quotes from that 2012 article:
“Check the FanGraphs leaderboards and only two current shortstops are all but guaranteed to still be playing the position a decade from now barring injury. One is Alcides Escobar, the other is Elvis Andrus.”
ALCIDES ESCOBAR WHAT
“When looking for a franchise player you want talent and stability. For the next 10 years, [Jay] Bruce offers plenty of both.”
JAY BRUCE IS STABLE YOU GUYS
“[Kemp’s] defense isn’t the greatest but I’ll gladly take the hit knowing I’ve got this guy at age 27 and through his peak years.”
KEMP’S PEAK YEARS WERE LITERALLY ALREADY OVER
Predictions make even the smartest baseball writers on the internet look silly sometimes.
Just want to highlight this. The biggest shift in our evaluation process since 2012 has nothing to do with ‘This Player Good / This Player Bad’ but how we view prime years.
I blame Bonds for making us think mid-30’s were anything but a death drop.
On Trout In 2011
“Rather than take someone who is definitely an elite player, he picked someone who *might* become that. Even if he does reach his ceiling, he’s not going to give you that productivity right away.
Considering the rules (contracts don’t exist), it makes no sense to me to take an unproven prospect”
True, he didn’t reach his ceiling right after this draft in 2011. It took him all the way into the next season to become a 10 win player , and he hell maybe he didn’t reach his ceiling right away. 😂😂
Rachael, your draft pick notes are solid gold. Please don’t ever change (for the worse).
The 2012 Draft has aged beautifully.
Why not a count down?
Reading through the comments of the 2012 draft (as well as the draft itself) is legitimately entertaining. People saying Arenado was a horrible pick at #30 is my personal favorite. 7 years later and here is drafted HIGHER. This whole exercise just goes to show how difficult it is to truly project talent more than about a month into the future.
joey gallo seems like a miss if he’s truly a plus or even average CF over the next few years
He has such an extreme profile that I don’t think we have any idea how he’s going to age. But my gut instinct is that he’d be of similar value for this draft as Baez, Bogaerts, and Story. Not a slam-dunk choice for this exercise, but a good option once the even younger guys are gone.
Are we sure he isn’t in the top 15? Fangraphs seems to love him.
Man I really hope Jose Ramirez bounces back. Not having him play at an elite level stinks.
The comments from 2011– bashing Cistulli mercilessly for taking Trout #3 while he was in AA– and 2012– trashing Arenado & Machado, lambasting the guy who suggested Chris Sale– are just incredible. I am going to stay out of this debate lest I am revealed to be a complete moron in eight years
That’s how I feel about participating in the draft!
But half the fun of this game is saying things you’ll regret 5 years later!
“To maintain a bit of mystery for the No. 1 pick”
I’m excited to find out who picked Mike Trout
Am I the only person thinks that Mike Trout is not the slam-dunk best choice for this exercise? I would certainly consider him because a diminished Mike Trout is still potentially better than anyone else you can get, but I think it’s a coin flip (3 sided die toss?) between Trout, Acuna, and Bellinger.
I was thinking the same thing, but ultimately I think I’d be afraid to not take Trout lest he be reading and promptly reel off a couple 12 WAR “I told you so” seasons.
yeah, I don’t want to think about the possibility he ages like Griffey but it is possible Trout ages like Griffey.
I think it is close. I would still take Trout because I wouldn’t want to be the guy who didn’t take Trout. He has put all his draft concerns to rest is an understatement. I do want to know how he managed to eat 12 hamburgers a day in highschool, however. And as Trout as shown it hardly matters what version he is, as he still dominates. He can be fat Trout, stolen base Trout, bad defense Trout, strike out Trout, can’t hit a high fastball Trout and then next year he is instantly someone entirely different but equally good. To the guy who commented on Griffey, the thing is Trout has done it so much longer already, and at a higher peak.
A lot of Griffey’s peak value was in his glove, too. Peak Trout is 20-something wRC+ points ahead of peak Griffey.
Acuna is closer to Soto than he is to Trout.
I prefer the floor that Soto’s eyes provide more than the floor that Acuna’s fielding does.
And Soto is almost certainly not a -10 UZR/150 fielder (He has career -4 OOA in 1.5 seasons).
Also FWIW, ZiPS projects Soto to be the second best player in the game by 2021 with 7.5 war. (Acuna is at 9th with 5.0 war)
To be fair, if given even odds, I’d gladly take the under on that projection, but still.
I think if I had a top 5, it would be something like Bellinger, Trout, Acuna, Soto, and Ohtani. I’m curious to see what happens tomorrow.
A lot of this is going to depend on what you think Soto and Acuna are going to do in the field. There are a lot of people who think that Soto is going to be a DH and Acuna is a bona fide center fielder, but I would generally agree that Soto is the single best bet to be an offensive force for the next 10 years of any player you can pick.
I would be tempted to take Wander Franco at #29, definitely at #30. A very risky pick but enormous upside.
One thing about this exercise, though, is that because contracts are irrelevant you’re essentially punting on the next year or so while he tunes up in the minor leagues, plus the year(s) where he’s adjusting to the majors. So you don’t get the benefit of extra years of team control (like you would in real life) but still have to deal with the years while he’s learning to hit like a star. So right off the bat, you’re getting nothing in year one, probably less in year two and potentially nothing, and probably a less fully-formed version of Wander Franco in year 3.
The bet would (hopefully) pay off handsomely in years 4-10, especially if he’s a generational talent like A-Rod who just comes in and destroys major league pitching. Is seven years of Wander Franco, who still is A+ and who knows what will happen, better than having Trevor Story, who has already gone through his growing pains but will certainly decline at some point in this 10 year window? I’m not sure.
Great points. For a guy like Story, though, I’m not sure locking him down through age 36 is really that lucrative this early in the draft. He’s hit for a .758 OPS away from Coors in his career. The defense is very good, clearly, but if it should slip at all, he might become quite the bust.
In the current environment of extreme pitching scarcity (at all levels of baseball), taking post-peak bats (Arenado, Bryant, Ramirez, Story, Harper) over Walker Buehler seems….sub-optimal.
It seems like some participants thought it was a fantasy draft:
“Still, Story is worth the risk, as he could be a 30-20 home run hitter for at least a few more years. He gets the benefit of playing in Coors Field”
Heh, yea I noticed that as well. While Story should continue to be a great player, the comment does read that way
Are the rules the same as from 2012 (you get the player for the next 10 years only), or are they lifetime contracts?
Big diff for 18 yo prospects.
Was Sporer a writer on this site at that time?
The comments on that article are downright hilarious. And it is amazing how many players basically immediately started sucking after the pick.
Found this gem:
This is directed at TKDC. You’re an idiot. Trout’s WAR is laughable if you look at the underlying components. Harper has a higher walk rate, lower strikeout rate, higher line drive rate and higher ISO. Trout has been incredibly lucky as evidenced by his .383 BABIP. And don’t even get me started on the fielding component. Defensive metrics are a joke and have no place in WAR.
I dare that poster to show their face around here again.
This guy had a great comment going then just had to ruin it in the last sentence:
Adam Stein
I hope you’re planning to look back at these lists (this year and last) and the comments in 5 years and see how it turned out. Some of the picks and comments are going to look outright silly, not to mentioned how it will look in 9-10 years.
I think some of the pickers and many of the commenters don’t give enough consideration to age. Drafting someone who’s 28 you’re already on (or very close) to the downside of his career. Yes you may get 5 great years, but after that you may be looking at a good hitter who’s a DH or poor 1B. Tulo is an obvious exception as he might even stick at SS.
So close and yet so far
I really hope Nick roasts Paul on the podcast for badmouthing Carson’s Trout pick lol
My favorite part was Dave Cameron thrilled to get Brett Lawrie at #25, and Chad Young treating Buster Posey like a consolation prize at #27.
I feel like there’s not enough meta-thought in this. If you’re actually going on to more rounds of draft, creating teams, and competing with each other, then whoever has the 30th pick here, or even the 20th pick, is completely screwed if they follow the same strategy as everyone who drafted before them. We ought to see the lower picks diversifying in strategy more, and trying to construct their competitive windows in different ways.
I’d put McCay of the Rays in the lower half. He looks legit as a pitcher prospect.
Poor Jonah with that Lincecum pick in 2011! Even in his explanation he drew out what the writing on the wall was, yet he understandably took the over on a dominant pitcher at age 27.
Why in the world were we presented with pick #16 first?
Either start with pick #1, or start from the very end. Starting in the middle is rather tilting
“…and other real life sundry…” Wrong! Sundry is an adjective. IMO it’s hard to believe a writer for FG doesn’t know that.
And anybody who builds his franchise around a young pitcher is heading for trouble.