The Diamondbacks’ Grit vs. Win Expectancy
It’s fairly safe to say that Arizona manager Kirk Gibson doesn’t care for Ryan Braun that much. Braun torched Gibson’s Diamondbacks in the 2011 LCS, just before Braun was found to have been taking some form of PEDs. The suspension, repeal fiasco, and Braun’s name coming up in the Biogenesis scandal never sat right with Gibson and he’s been a vocal critic ever since.
This fact and this fact alone could be the reason D-Backs reliever Evan Marshall threw at Ryan Braun twice in a row, hitting him the second time and earning an ejection. It could have been compounded by the fact that Brewers starter Kyle Lohse hit two batters himself earlier in the game. It could have to do with the two batters that were hit the night before. There could be a lot of reasons for it, but one thing is clear; the Diamondbacks playing tough-guy baseball was a bad move as far as the numbers go and ended up costing them the game in this case.
Let’s backtrack a little bit. In the bottom of the first inning with the score tied, Lohse got ahead of Didi Gregorious 0-2. Lohse threw a slider in. It grazed Gregorious.
It’s the first batter of the first inning. The game is tied. I’m not inside Lohse’s head, but it seems as if the pitch just ran in a little more than anticipated. If Lohse were looking to make a statement, doing so on a slider with an 0-2 count doesn’t seem like the most effective way to do so. Besides, Lohse is a fan of throwing his slider down and in (or both) to lefties as this heatmap from BaseballSavant shows.
Lohse also struggled in the first inning, eventually giving up three runs. For the sake of argument, I’m going to chalk this up as “accidental.”
In the top of the sixth, with the D-Backs up 4-2, Lohse hit Chris Owings in a scarier moment.
Owings has 299 career plate appearances, 13 of which were against Milwaukee and none against Lohse before this game. This doesn’t give a lot of history for bad blood. While throwing at batters is still a “part of the game” for some, it’s extremely taboo to aim for a batter’s head. If you look at Lohse’s reaction, he doesn’t look too happy. Lohse had been struggling with command all night, throwing only 63% of his pitches for strikes. And though he might not know that putting a man on in that situation would raise Arizona’s win expectancy from 85.6% to 87.4%, it would be fair to assume that he knew he wouldn’t be helping his team any. Again, I can’t speak for Lohse, but I’m guessing his lack of command contributed more to this than malcontent did.
Did Kirk Gibson take offense to this? I’m sure he wasn’t happy about it, but I can’t say that he decided to enact revenge for these two acts. If he did, he picked a really dumb time to do it.
In the next half inning, Jean Segura tripled and was driven in by an Elian Herrera sac fly. Lyle Overbay singled and Scooter Gennett doubled in the next two at-bats. As Lyle Overbay is Lyle Overbay, he couldn’t make it home on the double and stopped at third. One out, runners at second and third. Let’s pause here.
| Outs | Bases | Expected Runs |
|---|---|---|
| 0 | 0 | 0.4821 |
| 0 | 1 | 0.8551 |
| 0 | 2 | 1.1033 |
| 0 | 1&2 | 1.4227 |
| 0 | 3 | 1.3741 |
| 0 | 1&3 | 1.7832 |
| 0 | 2&3 | 1.974 |
| 0 | Loaded | 2.2438 |
| 1 | 0 | 0.2566 |
| 1 | 1 | 0.5101 |
| 1 | 2 | 0.6659 |
| 1 | 1&2 | 0.8868 |
| 1 | 3 | 0.9419 |
| 1 | 1&3 | 1.1306 |
| 1 | 2&3 | 1.3753 |
| 1 | Loaded | 1.5442 |
| 2 | 0 | 0.0991 |
| 2 | 1 | 0.2264 |
| 2 | 2 | 0.3192 |
| 2 | 1&2 | 0.4299 |
| 2 | 3 | 0.3441 |
| 2 | 1&3 | 0.4959 |
| 2 | 2&3 | 0.5729 |
| 2 | Loaded | 0.7624 |
I created this run expectancy chart using Retrosheet data between 2010 and 2013. It shows the average runs scored in those four years given any base/out scenario. After the Gennett double, the Diamondbacks were already in trouble. Because it was a one-run game, the win expectancy mirrors this as the Diamondbacks’ chances dropped from 69.9% to 52.8%. Home field advantage gives them about a 2.2% bump over even, so they are basically in the same spot as they were when the game started. Up steps Ryan Braun.
“The game plan there with guys in scoring position, we’re trying to create some soft contact, and my best stuff is to work sink down and in,” Marshall said. “A ball got away and got him, and that’s what happened.”
If Miguel Montero doesn’t make an almost-blind catch, that’s almost a certainly a run right there. The umpire doesn’t warn Marshall but walks the ball back to the mound and talks to him for a second. Marshall throws another pitch.
“Same thing,” he said. “I was trying to hit the glove and the ball got away.”
Marshall’s release point changed by a half a foot on those last two pitches. That’s a heck of a slip.
Marshall was ejected and left to a standing ovation. Hey! You gave our favorite team a worse chance of winning! Great job!
All emotion aside, this was basically a walk to load the bases with one out. I get the idea — try and induce a double-play. Perhaps the better move would have been to pitch around Braun a little, hoping he’ll chase one and hit a soft grounder forcing the runners to stay, or creating a play at home. I get that Braun is not a batter you want to face in this situation. His wRC+ in 2014 is 127, a good number. But the following batter, Jonathan Lucroy, owns a 160 wRC+, has a 225 wRC+ in June, and had already hit a homer this game. Ryan Braun had never been hit by a pitch while facing the Diamondbacks, and they picked a hell of time to start doing so.
Many jokes have been made about Arizona’s commitment to “playing tough” or “playing the right way” or whatever you want to call it. It’s a mantra adopted by GM Kevin Towers and precipitated through the ranks of the organization. The Diamondbacks want ballplayers, they want gamers. They want guys who won’t be pushed around. There are certain immeasurable facets of team building and clubhouse chemistry that we can’t put our fingers on. We don’t really know how much managers affect teams or how team standards and goals affect performance. Arizona has fluctuated between good and poor in the past few seasons. Some has to do with talent, some with injuries, some with random chance. But in this specific case, Arizona’s tough-guy attitude measurably and substantially hurt their chances at a win.
Though Marshall was struggling a bit, the plunking caused him to get tossed and forced Gibson to bring in a reliever with worse strikeout and walk rates. It caused the expected runs for that inning to go up by .17. It caused their win expectancy to drop from 52.8% to 51.2%. These aren’t huge shifts, to be sure, but they are shifts that the Diamondbacks just gave away without making the other team try to do anything. They helped the Brewers — they gifted them a better opportunity to win.
Then, on the very next pitch:
The Diamondbacks’ new win expectancy? 10.3%.
According to our projections, the Diamondbacks have the same chance of making the playoffs as the Mets and Cubs do. Weird baseball can happen, but Arizona is pretty much out of it already. Perhaps Kirk Gibson has succumbed to this fate already. Perhaps he knew the basics of the expectancy numbers even if he didn’t know them to the decimal. Maybe he just didn’t care. Maybe he was peeved about getting routed the night before, peeved about letting the Brewers so close to the lead, and wanted to just hit a guy he didn’t like very much. It’s possible Marshall acted alone, I guess, though Gibson certainly had an opportunity to set him straight after the first pitch.
The Diamondbacks are within their right to play baseball however they want. If they want to play a little dirty while also hurting their team’s chances, so be it. But as Arizona continues to try and get better in the next couple years, this kind of attitude might just come back to bite them. Unless winning games isn’t the point. In which case, great job.
David G. Temple is the Managing Editor of TechGraphs and a contributor to FanGraphs, NotGraphs and The Hardball Times. He hosts the award-eligible podcast Stealing Home. Dayn Perry once called him a "Bible Made of Lasers." Follow him on Twitter @davidgtemple.








The Brewers announcers also pointed out last night how Gibson could have brought in a lefty reliever to face both Overbay and Gennett – two consecutive left handed hitters.
Instead he brought in the righty reliever – Marshall – and then both lefties (Overbay and Gennett) got base hits.
He basically gave away a chance to win a game in order to prove a point. In my opinion – he should be canned for that alone.
True grit indeed.
Not noted in this article: Ziegler is death to righties and home runs – always interesting to see rare events happen, even more so when they happen in a way that make karmic sense. Just now noted by me: Ziegler doesn’t hit many batters. I wonder if KT will trade him away now because he doesn’t fit the “D-Back way.”
Not noted in this article Ziegler wasn’t warming up to come in.
That was the 16th home run Ziegler has allowed in his career in 432.0 total innings. Happy coincidence.
What the hell do you know about doing things the D-Back Way?
Kirk and I live and breathe this way, so much that people now actually call us “D-Back”. We ain’t stopping until everyone on our team can be called a D-Back.
Kevin, a “-g” is different from a hard “-ck”.
That was already the joke.
Eye for an eye? KT must have missed the sermon on the mount.
Remember the bananas incident KT?
The Dodgers were eating BANANAS? In their DUGOUT??????
That is, without hyperbole, the single greatest act of disrespect on a baseball field in the history of the sport. Kevin Towers, you would have been in your rights to charge onto the field and summarily execute every member of the Dodgers’ roster and coaching staff. I mean, c’mon, bananas? BANANAS!!!!
Quoting ytd production to compare braun and lucroy right after an article on why we should only use projections (hint: they give a different answer)?
Speaking in terms Gibson and Towers might understand?
Predicting true talent change and ROS production is different than predicting right now production.
Small sample sizes do not offer great predictive value even in the short term.
Grit does not correlate well to wins.
But you know, since they’ve already deconstructed the team and decided not to win games, might as well let them play this one out, right? This allergy to winning totally isn’t a reason to fire all of management right now, before Towers tries to “go for it” at the deadline. Can’t do any more harm than has been done already.
Lohse had been struggling with command all night, throwing only 63% of his pitches for strikes.
So, pretty much right at both league average and his career average.
Noted, but that .gif reaction by both Lohse and Lucroy are either the most masterful acting job ever, or “holy crap, I totally didn’t mean that.” I’d like to give them the benefit of the doubt. Not that the “D-Back way” would do that, but w/e.
Lohse and Lucroy need look no further than their teammate for “masterful acting.” I assume you completely saw right through Braun’s professed innocence in 2011?
Thier reactions prove nothing. I am always amused by this sort of argument. How do you think Lucroy and Lohse should have reacted if Lohse’s intention was to throw a ball at Owings’s head? Give one another a high five?
With angry staring from Lohse? No reaction from the catcher because he expects it? ‘Cause that’s what most of those guys do when they intentionally hit a batter, head or not. Amuse yourself some other way than assigning invisible intent, I hear Gibson is looking for somebody to spread grit on the floor of the locker room.
Sounds like you are a true D-Back, Kevin Towers would be proud.
Am I the only one who noticed how quickly Montero shifted his left foot practically right behind Braun before Marshall threw the first pitch that “got away”??
The only shifting Lucroy did was to follow Owings after he got hit, presumably seeing if he was ok after the hit to the head.
I am not advocating the law of the jungle, but Lohse also threw a pitch over Bolsigner’s head. I think it’s fair to question the intentions of a pitcher whose highest BB/9 rate in the last three seasons is 1.63 and who has thrown exactly one wild pitch in each of the last five seasons.
But what’s the motive? If you’re going to refer to Lohse’s generally excellent control, shouldn’t you also take note of the fact that (as far as I know; correct me if I’m wrong) he’s never been known to throw at people? Shouldn’t you also consider that he had absolutely nothing to gain by hitting the guy?
Deliberately throwing at a player’s head is a universally reviled thing to do. I don’t think you can reasonably assume that’s what a pitcher is doing where he has no conceivable motive. Your assumption that a natural reaction to hitting the guy accidentally is “acting” strikes me as stone paranoid.
Missing the screencap of Gibson giving Marshall a fist-bump as he enters the dugout
The standing ovation is what really scares me. Even their fans have been tainted by Towers.
Not to take anything away from Towers or Gibson, who deserve everything they’re getting in this conversation, but let’s also not forget that the D-bags are now overseen by Mr. Dirty Class himself, Tony LaRussa.
Ken Kendrick has spent years whispering in their ears. He’s the worst of them all.
Literally the only place where I have seen an overwhelmingly negative response to this was on the Dbacks SBN blog (AZ Snakepit)
Sad sad sad
The release point graph, what direction is that?
I’d assume to the right?
I really, really like the release point change data. If I was on one of those MLB disciplinary committees, I would be looking for changes like that to call bullshit on guys like Marshall who try to say “it just got away from me.” Hopefully, they already do.
I’d love for a reporter or anyone in the media to call out his BS too, but that probably won’t happen. Not just him, but other pitchers throwing at guys on purpose as pointed out by this data.
I suppose it harmed our odds, but I understand Gibson’s reasoning. AZ local radio show had Gibson on yesterday and grilled him for not hitting Braun the night before when two Dbacks were also hit and Gibson has vehemently spoken out against Braun and his PED use in the past since he was likely using back in 2012 when he played a big part in eliminating the Dbacks from the playoffs. I actually support hitting Braun, but perhaps in another time.
I’m sure Kevin Towers thanks you for being a true D-Back. Hopefully everybody recognizes this when you walk down the street and greets you by yelling that honorific to you!
Why would you have a problem with hitting Braun under circumstances where the Brewers expected runs isn’t dramatically increased?
Hitting players on purpose is fucking stupid. If you don’t understand that the game should be about trying to win and not about fighting, unwritten rules, grit, and all that other macho bullshit, there’s no helping you. Eventually, the game will become about your skill, not intangible horse shit. Until that day, you are the enemy of progress, beauty, and enlightenment because you support the basest aspect of this wonderful game.
Because deliberately throwing at guys is bush league under any and all circumstances and should never be considered “part of the game,” unwritten rules be damned.
So do you believe there’s no benefit from keeping hitters off the plate?
Because responding to getting your feelings hurt by throwing something at someone isn’t acceptable when you’re a three-year old and it’s not acceptable when you’re an adult either.
@Guy There is a big difference between pitching inside to keep someone off the plate and deliberately hitting somebody.
How many broken hands, and wrists, and concussions from HBP. You should never be allowed to throw at a batter, with a 30+ day suspension so you can’t just shuffle a start and miss no time. Penalize them properly and the infants will stop hurting each other. This is what happens when you get over egotized farm boys that got greased thru high school because of there abilities, signed multi-million dollar bonuses, and then got indoctrinated into the “ways of baseball”. Stupid teams stop endorsing the breaking of your multi-million dollar assets, its no way to run a business.
I don’t buy the moralizing. Lot’s of very successful pitchers hit lots of batters. I doubt Roger Clemens thinks hitting batters cost him runs over the course of his career. Whether hitting batters can help pitchers is an empirical question that is very difficult to answer. However, it is certainly possible that hitting batters helps subsequent at bats. We treat individual at bats as if they are independent. Pitchers and hitters don’t consider at bats to be independent, however.
DNA+, you know what causes wOBA against to increase the most for pitchers? (I know you do, because you yourself have noted this in past comment threads)
Having a runner on! So are you now telling me that hitting a batter will scare the next enough to cancel out the disadvantage of having a runner on? Even when the bases are full during a tie game (the situation that Lucroy found himself in)? “Oh no, the big bad pitcher is going to hit me (therefore forcing in a run) – I better not swing!” Zeigler was put into a situation where the best bet was to induce contact and pray. (or try to strike the opponent out, which he’s bad at) The Diamondbacks were stupid, there is no other way to put it. They still would have been stupid even if Braun was the first batter of the game. Pitchers are trying to prevent base runners. Hitting batters on purpose is the opposite of that.
What I doubt is that Rodger Clemens was one to think about his actions. And I doubt that you are one that wants to see players play the game, instead preferring to pontificate about how it’s acceptable to maintain macho grittiness under the guise of “game theory,” and complaining about moralizing while defending actions that were taken in the name of morals. (i.e., the Diamondbacks aren’t hitting people on purpose because they think it makes them win more, but because of their own fucked up moral code)
AK7007,
You are misunderstanding me. I was not commenting about the specific situation with the D-Backs. I was merely commenting on the notion that a pitcher should never intentionally hit batters. I don’t think we know the answer to whether pitchers may have a net benefit from hitting a certain number of batters. Anecdotally, some very successful pitchers seem to think so (e.g. Bob Gibson). I’ve also heard batters talk about how at bats against certain pitchers were never comfortable because of their tendency to hit people. So, the possibility exists that pitchers can benefit, on balance, from hitting a certain number of hitters.
I don’t care about grittiness, or machoness, or any of the other nonsense. The psychological aspect of the game is interesting to me though. Also, batters getting hit by baseballs is actually part of the game. All batters and pitchers accept this. Just like all quarterbacks accept the possibility that they may get obliterated by a 280lb DE from the blindside.
Also, wOBA is a model that gives run values to base runners. Therefore it has to be the case that giving up baserunners increases wOBA against. This doesn’t mean that giving up a baserunner in any particular instance actually increases real run expectancy. The model is derived from the league average. Particular cases can deviate from the average quite a bit, meaning the opposite of the model expectation might be the real expectation in any particular case.
DNA+,
Not to get into the hit by pitch stuff any more – but that’s not what wOBA does, it’s context-neutral, not caring about runners on. It’s relevant here because what it says is that batters get better when there are base runners on. (Tango found in The Book that hitters gain around 15 points of wOBA over their expected wOBA values when there are runners on base) Whether that’s because the pitcher is in the stretch, distracted, or because they need to throw strikes to avoid putting more runners on is unknown. (Probably all of this and more!) Maybe in some convoluted way, hitters are afraid of specific headhunters, but what is clear is that once you put a guy on, the batter at the plate is more dangerous than he would be otherwise. Read more here on the way wOBA is calculated, and enjoy exploring something that you thought you knew in more depth!: http://www.fangraphs.com/library/offense/woba/
AK7007,
wOBA works exactly the way I said it works. The fact that it is context neutral is the problem. The linear weights that the wOBA model applies are average run values for the season. How well they apply to any individual context is another matter entirely because specific situations are not context neutral.
Your example that hitter’s average wOBA go up with runners on base is actually a good example for why you should not apply wOBA indiscriminately to specific situations (where the actual run values are often quite different than the league averages).
For example, wOBA considers all walks to be equal no matter what the context. However, if a pitcher has two outs and first base open with Barry Bonds at the plate and the pitcher in the hole, wOBA says you pitch to Bonds, while the situation clearly says you don’t. Why? because wOBA doesn’t bother with such triviality as who is batting, who is on deck and how many outs there are. That is why you don’t apply wOBA in individual cases.
wOBA says, never hit a batter on purpose. However, plunking a batter with two outs actually has a lower run expectancy than the wOBA model assigns it. If the plunked runner is unlikely to score, and if the plunking has positive effects in subsequent at bats, then it very well may be the case that pitchers should hit the occasional batter on purpose. There is no question that it is possible, but how could you ever test it?
Kirk Gibson manages ‘the right way’.
As a Dbacks fan on hiatus, it’s games like this and posts like this that clearly illustrate why it’s so hard to root for your own home team. Beyond the terrible team and terrible owner and terrible gm and terrible rockhead of a manager who runs the team out of games and lost 2 of his best starting pitchers (Hudson/Kennedy) by demanding they give him “100 pitches” when they were clearly arm tired or hurt.
But the stupid grit and tough guy act is just ridiculous. The Douchebacks hit almost TWENTY more batters last year than their opponents, yet Towers publicly demanded his pitchers hit more. Even the Gumbo and Ass on the radio buy into this moronic machoism that’s led to nothing but losses.
If I was in charge of MLB discipline I’d suspend Marshall & Gibson for the rest of the season (so that players understand in the future they’ll lose MLB paychecks intentionally trying to hurt other players), and fine every player and coach who fist bumped & high fived him in the dugout. I’d also fine the team itself, and to catch up, I’d suspend Towers for his inflamatory pre-season comments.
Players are baseballs entire product and it’s most important assets. It’s ridiculous to subject them to possible injury in a dumb beanball war.
Man this team and organization is so embarrassing and so are local fans and media for defending their ridiculously dumb and outrageous behavior.
Wait, there are people who think Lohse intentionally hit Owings? If the Brewers were going to hit someone, they’d hit Parra for his patently absurd reaction to an obviously unintentional hit batsman Monday night.
D-Backs are becoming a really easy team to dislike… not to mention laugh at.
QFT ^
You summed it up. Parra staring down Peralta in an obvious non intentional beaning situation was just Parra displaying that great D-Back grit and tough-guy-ness, I guess. The D-Backs have become the D-Bags, borrowing from another comment above.
If you despise Braun for what he has done, that’s fine. But to defend the actions of Arizona whether your a fan or not, don’t be so blind (or clueless). If I was a D-back fan having hired LaRussa and already having Gibson as my manger would have me a mixture of dissapointed, angry and sad. Hopefully in a few years that experiment has cleared the organizations system.
Throwing at Braun may have been a chickenshit move, but I think you are using run expectancy tables wrong. Those tables tell you generalized situational stats. Ignoring your pointing out Lucroy’s June wRC+ unless Fangraphs suddenly loves making decisions based on small sample sizes, walking a guy in that situation who projects to a rest of season 144 wRC+ to get to a guy who projects to 114 wRC+ may very well have increased win expectancy in this specific situation.
The second gritiest team in the majors has just won 10 in a row.
I’m a Dbacks fan, and the things that this organization has said/done in the past couple years just makes me cringe. I can’t wait for the inevitable change to come.
Hopefully the new guys aren’t backwards dinosaurs like KT and Gibby.
Lohse didnt mean to hit/hurt Owings, but the fact is he was leaving a bunch of pitches up and finally clocked our kid in the neck with a fastball. There’s professional culpability there, and considerable danger, absent malice.
We threw at Braun’s tush twice. There’s culpability, and probably some malice, but not nearly the same sort of danger to his person.
Intent is important, and sometimes nuanced, but harping on intent to the exclusion of pitch location strikes me as misguided moralizing.
Keep telling yourself that…
When are they going to hit Matt Williams? I mean, while we’re on the subject of punishing guys with a substantial amount of PED evidence against them.
I can’t hate the D’Bags too much. Tower’s silly way of managing has helped a few teams I like. He’s kind of like Ruben Amaro (I’m a Braves fan). He sucks, so I hate his stupidity, but I’m glad he’s out there on someone else’s team.
So I’m trying to get my team to understand how to play the game with grit.Why the hell can’t you guys understand that? Yes we aren’t exactly winning many of our games, but winning is overrated if there is no grit involved. Oh did I mention how much I value grit? Because grit is everything!
I doubt it was a Gibby call to hit Braun or even put him on 1st for that matter. This was a decision between Montero and Marshall. If it would have been a Gibby call, then Zeigler would have already been warming up to come in because Ziegler is a ground out machine. He induces more double plays than anyone in the game. Gibby wasn’t anticipating needing to bring Ziegler in, and therefor you cannot conclude that Gibby chose to hit Braun.