The Dodgers Are World Series Champions

Editor’s note: This story has been updated to reflect that the results of Justin Turner’s initial COVID test were inconclusive, prompting the processing of his second test to be expedited. That test was positive, resulting in his removal from the game.

The players gathered on the field in various states of face-covering. The winning team was at home, but wasn’t; they gathered in the middle of a dark, huge, faraway stadium, with fans spread haphazardly in the stands, some gathered in jubilant, worrying clusters. And as the trophies were about to be presented, the broadcast was interrupted by an announcement: Justin Turner, one of the most important members of this team for the past eight years, had exited the game mysteriously in the eighth inning. The reason for that exit, the public was somberly told, was that he had received a positive COVID-19 test.

But then, all of a sudden, it cut back to the field, to the smiling, hugging, weeping players, the speeches and the trophies and the booing and the cheering, just as if it was a normal World Series. Even Turner got his on-field shot with the trophy, despite being removed from the game to be isolated and prevent the spread of infection; even Turner joined the team for their group photo.

The pandemic rages on, even within the confines of the diamond: a place that so often attempts to shelter itself from the realities of living in society, that had been fighting to keep their bubble — or, at the very least, its appearance — intact. Turner’s test results from yesterday were, apparently, revealed to be inconclusive in the second inning of tonight’s game. His test results from today were confirmed positive later. And yet, they kept playing baseball, right to the very end, through Game 6 of the World Series, with over 11,000 fans in attendance. The Dodgers, appearing in their third Fall Classic over the last four seasons, beat the Rays 3-1. In this truncated, bedeviled, dubious season, in a world rife with uncertainty, and heading into a dark and fearful winter, it was the best team in baseball that emerged victorious. And now, with Turner’s positive test and the questions it raises, the best team in baseball leaves their celebration not to celebrate further, but to rapid testing and quarantining — a shadow hanging over the sublime joy of a championship a long time in the making.

Just a few hours ago, though, none of this — Turner, COVID, the questions facing MLB and the Dodgers going forward — was in the game story. The game story was Randy Arozarena putting an exclamation point on his historic postseason, hitting his 10th October home run off Tony Gonsolin in the first to put the Rays up 1-0. When we look back on this October, Arozarena’s out-of-nowhere explosion into the most fearsome hitter on any postseason team’s lineup, a bonafide star carrying the Rays’ offense on his back, will certainly be near the top of the list of memorable moments.

And the game story was the Dodgers’ bullpen, so often postseason goats, who took over from the clearly struggling Gonsolin after just five outs in what was intended to be a full start from him. It was Dylan Floro, who came in with two on in the second and struck out Arozarena on three pitches to end the inning. It was the mostly-sidelined Alex Wood pitching two perfect, shockingly efficient innings of middle-relief; Pedro Báez, to whom much is always, somehow, given, redeeming the two-homer egg he laid in that wild Game 4; Victor González, who bailed out Báez after Arozarena got yet another hit; Brusdar Graterol, who overcame his wildness — and got a little help from Cody Bellinger’s superb fielding in center — to record two outs in the seventh; and Julio Urías, who closed out the NLCS, once again shutting down the opposing team over the final innings of the game.

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And, perhaps more than anything, the game story was Blake Snell’s dominant, electrifying performance through five and a third: nine strikeouts, no walks, and just two hits, with the second hit being — controversially — the final batter he faced in the game. The score at that point was 1-0, just as it had been since the night’s second batter; Nick Anderson, who had allowed six runs in his six postseason appearances to that point, took over. It didn’t stay 1-0 for long. Mookie Betts, who struck out swinging twice against Snell, quickly doubled. A wild pitch brought home Barnes, and Betts, with his baserunning ability, came home on a Corey Seager groundball. The lead had changed for the final time in this World Series.

On some level, it wasn’t surprising that Snell was lifted. He hadn’t seen a seventh inning all season. The few sixth innings he’d seen were largely unsuccessful. This is what the Rays do; with their dominant bullpen, it had worked out to that point. But it was also easy to see why Snell seemed so incensed at his removal. The Dodgers’ powerful lineup, so productive in this World Series — the Dodgers, you may recall, had held a lead at some point in 27 consecutive innings prior to tonight — seemed utterly useless against Snell. Their fearsome top-of-the-lineup trio of Betts, Seager, and Turner were all 0-for-2 with two strikeouts against him through the first five innings; he was at a very reasonable 73 pitches on the night. Snell’s CSW% on all his pitches was an eye-popping 40%. In short, he looked fantastic. It’s hard to imagine a pitcher looking much better than Snell did for most of Game 6; it’s hard to imagine how the outcome might have differed had he stayed in the game.

But, ultimately, it was the Rays’ struggling lineup that doomed them. Only scoring one run meant that perfection was demanded of a bullpen that had already been worked extraordinarily hard, tasked with preserving many a tight lead over the course of this postseason. Maybe Snell would have thrown a complete-game shutout if left to his own devices. Or maybe he would have given up a single run, and the Dodgers would have scratched one across on Anderson or Pete Fairbanks anyway. Lifting Snell may have given the Dodgers a second wind, and Anderson may not have been the right choice to replace him if a replacement needed to be made, but with Rays relievers fallible and the Rays’ hitters almost entirely ineffective, it was an uphill battle for them regardless of the pitching choices. When Betts added an exclamation-point solo shot in the eighth to bring the score to 3-1, the writing was on the wall.

When we did our staff postseason predictions, 13 of us picked the Dodgers to win it all. It was the obvious choice; they were the strongest team in the bracket. They breezed to their eighth straight division title, and they hardly broke a sweat against the Brewers and Padres in the first two postseason rounds. It was in the NLCS, where they returned from series deficits of 2-0 and 3-1, where they seemed to exorcise some of the demons that have haunted their run of postseason losses. And in that incredible, whirlwind Game 4, one could see the specters rising again: the narrative of the Dodgers, who managed to find new and bizarre ways to lose when it mattered the most. Not this year. Clayton Kershaw had his best postseason, not on the hook for any heartbreakers. Kenley Jansen was the loser in Game 4, but was critical in the come-from-behind NLCS victory. Mookie Betts, the new star in town who will be around for a long, long time, led them to a title in his first year; and looking at this team, whose depth is their great strength, one can see the contributions coming from every direction — even from Joe Kelly.

It should be so satisfying, this story. And it was! And then, at the same time, it wasn’t — as Turner, having been instructed to isolate himself for the health of the public in the biggest moment of his life, ran around the field, sometimes masked and sometimes not, posing with the trophy and joining the team photo. “I didn’t touch him,” said Dave Roberts, the second Black and first Asian-American manager to win a World Series, and a cancer survivor whose health could be severely jeopardized by COVID. There was the overwhelming joy, the history of it all, and there was the fear, and there was moment of realization, the memory of all those shots of maskless fans under a closed roof, the deep unknown in the days ahead: What are we doing? What are we doing? All of it, all at the same time, all over again — for one last time in this tragic, maddening year.





RJ is the dilettante-in-residence at FanGraphs. Previous work can be found at Baseball Prospectus, VICE Sports, and The Hardball Times.

123 Comments
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dodgerbleu
5 years ago

I felt terrible for, and would be all for an article about Justin Turner and his test and him not being able to celebrate with his teammates. A separate story. Considering it’s their first World Series in 32 years, the focus probably should have been on that, and not COVID. You have nice prose. Just wish you were a baseball writer.

mikejuntMember
5 years ago
Reply to  dodgerbleu

I don’t really think this is a fair assessment; the news about Turner, coming almost immediately after the game ended, threw quite the confusing pall over the celebration, first because of his very noticable absence, and then because of his presence.

It’s always going to be part of this experience for all of us, and it’s going to ensure that the memory of this championship is even more directly entwined with the memory of the pandemic than it might have been otherwise. You won’t be able to ignore it, it’s always going to be there.

There’s also only so much to say about the Dodgers that hasn’t already been said. We know the story – well. Everyone does. It ended happily. This was the best or 2nd best team I’ve ever seen play baseball – a peer of the 1998 Yankees. They did everything you could want players to do on a baseball field, and they did it well.

And we won’t forget them any time soon.

zwibi
5 years ago
Reply to  mikejunt

Then maybe don’t mention it and give it a rest for one night.

Give the players a chance to enjoy their accomplishment. Even if it is the effing dodgers

Bartolo Cologne
5 years ago
Reply to  zwibi

zwibi, this is the exact mentality that leads to the type of uncontrolled spreading that we see afflicting the entire country while Americans refuse to get their act together. MLB and the Dodgers knew better, Turner definitely should have known better, and the fact that he decided to participate and they let him means that they cast the pall over their own party themselves. Although I’m sure it isn’t what the Dodgers want, this is the story they created, and it’s right for Fangraphs and many other organizations doing similar reporting to talk about it.

cartographerMember since 2016
5 years ago

Please stop spreading misinformation about the virus. This will not be over any time soon.

RonnieDobbs
5 years ago

This is a hateful take. There is no set of actions that makes Coronavirus stop spreading. “Out of control” is a completely arbitrary standard that we use to further political agendas. We never even scraped “the curve”, so that means it is controlled right? Either that or the threat was completely misunderstood. As we get together and do things it will spread. Are you losing your mind that restaurants are open or that some kids are at school? I am sure many more people got Coronavirus in restaurants last night than what will come from the Dodgers organization. We accept many risks but condemn others – the further removed from our lives the better, right? Blaming people for the spread of a pandemic is a very poor display of humanity.

PatrickMember since 2017
5 years ago
Reply to  RonnieDobbs

It’s a poor display of humanity to ignore the human cost of a pandemic that has killed over 200k Americans this year alone. It’s a poor display of humanity for Turner to potentially expose his own teammates, and their own families in turn, to a deadly virus, and it’s a poor display of humanity to sweep that fact under the rug.

LordOfTexasMember since 2019
5 years ago

COVID will not “go away” until we have a vaccine, and even then experts expect it will be around in some form, like the flu. Please stop spreading misinformation. COVID realistically cannot be completely stopped by masks/testing/social distancing, but those things can reduce deaths tenfold.

r24j
5 years ago

Comments should be moderated and deleted for spreading misinformation

ianmSC
5 years ago

Man I had no idea Fangraphs readers were even more uninformed than the employees here

tonycpsuMember since 2019
5 years ago
Reply to  zwibi

Right, because I’m sure that Justin Turner is *all over* Fangraphs right now just waiting to see what those mean writers will say about him putting his teammates in jeopardy.

Mahoney
5 years ago
Reply to  mikejunt

This may be the most perfect comment ever.

RonnieDobbs
5 years ago
Reply to  mikejunt

While this team qualifies as a dynasty in my book, this was not a contender for one of the best teams I have seen in my life. This team has two starting pitchers, no closer, a bad defense and two elite hitters. They are good but I’ll take the 2019 Astros and a bunch of other teams. No reason to tarnish their accomplishments but this team doesn’t strike me as having any argument as an all-time great squad.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  RonnieDobbs

I actually almost agree with this, which might be the first time I am agreeing with RonnieDobbs. If we think about Muncy and Bellinger’s performance the previous year you’re looking at an all-timer lineup all the way through #6, but Muncy and Bellinger were not that great this year.

This is a deserving World Series champion, on par with or better than every one we’ve seen in the last 20 years or so, and you have to go back to 1998 to find a team that was clearly, obviously better. But in the more recent past, it’s hard to separate them from the most recent Red Sox championship team, or the Astros championship team, or the Cubs championship team.

3rdgenbruinMember since 2016
5 years ago
Reply to  RonnieDobbs

Well, let’s see.

– They had the best winning percentage in about 100 years
– They had the best run generation in baseball
– They had the best run prevention in baseball
– They just had the second best offensive output in playoff history (if the telecast last night is to be believed)
– Of the last 10 world series winners, they had the 6th best regular season run differential despite only playing 60 games (including besting all three Giants WS winners!)
– Other great teams may derive their greatness from how many superstars they have, but the Dodgers are great because they may be the deepest best team ever. It is ridiculous to grade a team solely on number of great players.

So of course they’re in consideration for best team ever.

3rdgenbruinMember since 2016
5 years ago
Reply to  3rdgenbruin

Oh, and according to Fivethirtyeight elo rankings:

Dodgers: 1612 (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-mlb-predictions/)

Best teams of all time: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-best-mlb-teams-of-all-time-according-to-elo/

This puts them firmly in the top 10 teams of all time.

Adam C
5 years ago
Reply to  3rdgenbruin

They had the best winning percentage in about 100 years? For a 60 game season. Not the same as a 162 game season. Until this group of Dodgers can prove it over a 162 schedule they cannot be rated with the past all time great teams. Perhaps they will prove it in 2021?

3rdgenbruinMember since 2016
5 years ago
Reply to  Adam C

It isn’t like they were a one year wonder. They have won over 300 games the last three years and have largely the same team and then added Mookie. All they did was exactly what everyone predicted they would do.

Their FiveThirtyEight ELO rating is top 10 all time.

What exactly is not believable about this?

emh1969
5 years ago
Reply to  3rdgenbruin

No one’s saying they’re not a great team. They clearly are. But this season was so different from any other that it’s hard to put it in historical perspective. Just off the top of my head you have – shortest schedule ever, changes in schedule construction, larger rosters, in game rule changes.

Of course, the shorter schedule is the biggest factor of all. Going 43-17 is impressive. But multiple teams do that (or better) every single year over a 60 game stretch. The vast, vast, vast majority, however, can’t keep that up over 162 games due to injuries, regression to the means and other factors.

Adam C
5 years ago
Reply to  emh1969

The Dodgers in 2020 were a great team…for 60 games. I guess people cannot grasp that? It simply does not compare to the past all time great teams. They can potentially join the pantheon of all time great teams but that is not assured. To me at least then need to win another World Series. All the great dynasties of the past won multiple World Series titles.

mikejuntMember
5 years ago
Reply to  emh1969

I think part of the point re: the Dodgers performance is that it didn’t involve overshooting projections. Most teams that win 105+ games get there by having a bunch of guys exceed their projections. The Dodgers won 70% of their games with the run differential of a team that should win 70% of their games, then went through the playoffs with a run differential of a team that should win 70% of it’s games, and did all of that while multiple, core pieces under-performed their projections (Bellinger, Muncy, Pederson, for example). This is how they were able to sustain that level of performance in the playoffs, as they were as good as they were while they had players who were due for -positive regression- towards their established performance levels (and we saw exactly that, with Muncy performing more or less at his typical levels and Bellinger doing the same for most of the postseason).

Its too bad we didn’t have the chance to see this team over 162, and I do fully believe they could have challenged the single-season wins record if they had a Padres team that was good enough to push them to try. In both 17 and 19 they had been on or near paces to do so and fallen off when they went into postseason preparation mode, started resting guys and auditioning relievers for bullpen roles, etc. And that was before they had Mookie Betts!

Out of the Park Baseball isn’t a perfect baseball simulation, but it does a pretty darn good job, and it’s worth considering that in all 3 full 162 game sims run by major baseball websites during the shutdown (Here at FG, at baseball reference and at baseball prospectus), the Dodgers teams in those simulations broke the single season wins record.

They were the first team in the history of most projection systems that projected for a mean wins total above 100.

Last, and I’m a little reluctant to point to this because it’s something of an appeal to authority but I do think it’s notable, Jeff Sullivan implied the Rays themselves see it in a similar light. You can check out his post-world series tweet and follow-up conversation, where he doesn’t really reveal much (because he can’t) but implies that the Rays evaluated the Dodgers internally as one of the greatest teams ever assembled. You can take that as you will, but Jeff’s not one prone to hyperbole and I’m inclined to take him at his word.

sweepcut
5 years ago
Reply to  dodgerbleu

It would have been nice to hear a little more analysis about the game, but I understand the observation about COVID. Go Dodgers!!!

Handsome Wes
5 years ago
Reply to  dodgerbleu

This is the most downvotes I have seen for a post since I said Steve Garvey should be in the Hall of Fame

Keith
5 years ago
Reply to  dodgerbleu

Imagine telling a writer employed by a baseball-focused site that they’re not a baseball writer?

ianmSC
5 years ago
Reply to  Keith

They’re a politics writer who happens to occasionally write about baseball

CamH
5 years ago

It should definitely be noted that Ken Rosenthal has retracted his initial story about Turner’s positive being “known in the second inning”. Rather, that days test coming back inconslusive in the second inning, then an earlier test being expedited (which came back positive later on) and Turner immediately being removed then. Although it’s all an odd shadow to linger over an incredible achievement.

The best baseball team this season was certainly the Dodgers, and this title seals it.

32roland
5 years ago
Reply to  CamH

The fact that the article hasn’t been corrected in light of Rosenthal’s retraction is pretty disappointing. I expect better of Fangraphs.

RonnieDobbs
5 years ago
Reply to  32roland

You shouldn’t. Why would you?

Meg RowleyFanGraphs Staff
5 years ago
Reply to  32roland

The piece has been updated and an editor’s note added. My apologies for the delay, and thank you for reading the site.

Willians Astu-stu-studilloMember since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  32roland

And then they post a correction, which I suppose was to be expected.

Meg RowleyFanGraphs Staff
5 years ago

I read Ken’s correction the same way Rachael did, and didn’t see Bill’s and other’s subsequent tweets as I was editing, so didn’t adjust during that process. I should have remembered to circle back this morning. I appreciate you all raising it, and again, apologize for the delay in updating the piece.

kevininmotion
5 years ago

This is the best feeling ever! I love Clayton Kershaw, love the Dodgers, and love the city of Los Angeles! After enduring decades of heartbreak, disappointment, and unmet potential; the drama of the McCourt years, the Astros cheating scandal, the dread of our playoff narrative; to finally win a World Series is a joy I can not explain! To Vin Scully, Rich Hill, Ryu, Stripling, Manny, Nomo, Piazza, Kemp, Puig, Park, Gange, Eithier, Karros, and all the other legends that called Chavez home over the last 32 years, this is for you! <3

deep64blue
5 years ago

“What are we doing”?

We’re getting on with our lives as best we can in the face of a disease that will be with us for years to come. We can take precautions but we can’t live in fear huddled inside for the next few years, not least for our mental health.

Huge props to MLB and MLBPA for getting this over the line.

FrodoBeck
5 years ago
Reply to  deep64blue

It’s very clear that despite how scary the virus may be to some, there are large subsets of people who will not let it dictate their lives or big moments in their lives. Personally, I wouldn’t dwell on or make that a focal point of this WS (the Turner test and subsequent celebration with his teammates). But I’m not a fangraphs writer and they do what they want, the article was still very well written and great. Nothing could stop me from enjoying the Dodgers finally winning a WS for the first time in my life.

LordOfTexasMember since 2019
5 years ago
Reply to  deep64blue

If ignoring the virus only endangered the person doing the ignoring, that would be totally cool, but that’s not the case. You can be a carrier just as easily as a victim.

RonnieDobbs
5 years ago
Reply to  deep64blue

Thanks for posting this. Sometimes I forget that just getting together for a season was an accomplishment. The players are heroes. They took risks to make our lives better. We live in an era where people have completely lost touch with quality of life and mental health is just scary. Make no mistake that way too many people are suffering and this represented a step in the right direction. There were a ton of people that didn’t want this to happen and tried to smash it with fear but this goes to show that we can continue to live real lives.

Mahoney
5 years ago

“…even from Joe Kelly”.

LOL, I have to wonder if Kelly’s suspension earlier this season put a little extra spark, edge, etc. behind the Dodgers, given the whole backstory behind it all.

Jimmie Foxxalorian
5 years ago

Something tells me they are not going to have to wait another 32 years for the next one.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
5 years ago

This was a really fun series. Many of the games were intense and/or close, and of course Game 4 is an all-time classic. The only thing I am sad about is that we didn’t get a Game 7, and now it is all over.

adrock75Member since 2018
5 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Would we have even been able to get a Game 7 within the next 7-10 days, if the Rays had won? It would seem that all of the Dodgers are at an elevated risk for infection.

I’m not sure what the MLB protocols for isolation are–it’s entirely possible that the game would have proceeded with the entire roster, sans Turner (and with luck, he’ll be the only person infected)–but the series wrapping up in 6 makes things a whole lot simpler.

Congrats to the Dodgers and their fans!

RonnieDobbs
5 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Game 4 was an all-time choke. This was not that great of a series really. In reality I think LAD could have ridden starters or gone with almost any RP arm. LAD made it as competitive as they could for TB.

FrodoBeck
5 years ago

To quote Rob Manfred (the quote to perfectly sum up his whole tenure as commissioner): “We’re glad to be done.”

He was finally able to offload that dumb piece of metal to another team.

bluerum29
5 years ago

The Turner positive test is irrelevant. He had already been around those same people for more than a day since being positive, staying in the game should not have been an issue. He was still healthy, let him play and yes let him celebrate with his team, the season is over, doesn’t matter now about avoiding lost games.

tomerafan
5 years ago
Reply to  bluerum29

Yeah… I know this won’t be a popular opinion…. and it’s a bad look for sure… but the Dodgers were already exposed to Justin Turner up until the moment he left the dugout last night. The additional risk posed by coming back to celebrate seems incremental compared to the risk that already existed. It was a selfish decision by Turner, by definition of that word… but it’s also marginal incremental risk compared to the risk that had already existed, unawares to everyone around him.

Either way, there’s a ton of pent-up anger from the sheer exhaustion that many folks are feeling right now, and Justin Turner is going to feel a lot of that shifted in his direction, even if his choice was selfish and marginally risky and possibly imprudent rather than wholly reckless.

ashlandateam
5 years ago
Reply to  tomerafan

One addendum to this: I’m reading quotes from all sorts of Dodgers this morning, from Kershaw to Betts to Seager to Lux who wanted Turner out there celebrating. I don’t think it’s quite right to call Turner’s actions ‘selfish’ when you consider that the damage was all already done, and his teammates wanted him out there.

The real story SHOULD be why he was allowed to play at all. Why did testing take so long it went into Tuesday’s game? Monday’s inconclusive test should have been known well ahead of time, and he shouldn’t have played. I’m a Reds fan. This exact scenario happened with Bauer this season. Inconclusive test the day before a start, and he was held out for three days to get negative tests. Why in the World Series is testing slower than a regular season Reds team?

But the damage was done. Can’t get more exposed. Not sure why 10 minutes of photos with the trophy makes any difference when the whole team has to quarantine anyway.

bluerum29
5 years ago
Reply to  ashlandateam

No reason to quarantine, just go home and start living your offseason life now.

tomerafan
5 years ago
Reply to  ashlandateam

I don’t think it’s quite right to call Turner’s actions ‘selfish’ when you consider that the damage was all already done, and his teammates wanted him out there.

I respectfully disagree. Those guys may have wanted him out there, but we don’t know if that sentiment was unanimous, or whether any dissenter would have had the courage to voice that dissent in the moment. One reason for having rules in the first place is to protect people from the decisions of others made in the emotion of a moment rather than with ration and reason.

So, I do think it was literally selfish of Turner, in that he prioritized his own desire to celebrate over the fact that someone may have been very, very uncomfortable by his continued presence, and that presence was against the policies that the players agreed to for the safety and welfare of others. But I also think the risk presented was incremental.

The real story SHOULD be why he was allowed to play at all. Why did testing take so long it went into Tuesday’s game? Monday’s inconclusive test should have been known well ahead of time, and he shouldn’t have played.

Yes, and also, given the existence of possible false negatives AND false positives, why wasn’t each player tested 2x a day or A/B sampled during the playoffs?

TKDCMember since 2016🏆 MVP
5 years ago
Reply to  ashlandateam

What are those guys supposed to say and does it really matter? Turner could have been an adult but instead he was a child. A selfish child. Considering everything said in the Cleveland clubhouse and all the stories we heard about players wanting to hold each other accountable, I’d bet that most of the players would have preferred Turner not be out there possibly infecting them. But they aren’t going to say that now because it doesn’t do any good. And this shit will not be gone by the start of next season. MLB May very well drop the hammer on Turner and the Dodgers and it would be entirely justified.

bluerum29
5 years ago
Reply to  TKDC

Drop the hammer? What effect does the post game celebration have on mlb going forward? none.

RonnieDobbs
5 years ago
Reply to  tomerafan

This is a pretty fact-based take. Scary to think that you would expect to get hate over it. We live in strange times!

renaldo44Member since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  bluerum29

Unfortunately thats just not how infection transmission works. Every interaction carries with it the risk of transmission. Its not like every person who was going to get it from him had either gotten it or not – each additional interaction increases the risk to others, and others may have gotten it during the post game celebration.

bluerum29
5 years ago
Reply to  renaldo44

Hes not actually sick though, so just go on doing your job and living your life.

hughduffy
5 years ago
Reply to  bluerum29

Turner had an inconclusive test, then a definitely positive PCR test for the COVID-19 virus. This wasn’t a false positive. Turner is infected the COVID-19 virus, and likely very infectious at this stage of the disease.
Just because someone is not symptomatic with COVID-19 does not mean that they don’t have the disease, that they won’t develop symptoms later, or that they can’t spread it to others.

shumway
5 years ago
Reply to  bluerum29

I’m surprised you have the capability to understand any of baseball’s in-game rules when you get this simple understanding of infection/transmission wrong after 7+ months of non-stop information. Did it take you 30 years to understand a ground-rule double? “but it bounced over the wall!!!”

bluerum29
5 years ago
Reply to  shumway

I completely understand how infections and transmissions work. Some people who get infected will get sick, some wont get sick. At this point we should as a society go on about our lives, we have let it control/impact us for far too long.

LordOfTexasMember since 2019
5 years ago
Reply to  bluerum29

If we were to stop all efforts to control the virus, you can be damn sure it would control and impact us MUCH more severely than it is now. If you think 200,000 dead is bad, try 2 million dead – that is what it would take to achieve “herd immunity”

bluerum29
5 years ago
Reply to  LordOfTexas

Nobody said anything about stopping all efforts to control the virus. There are many things that could still be done while continuing normal lives for most people.

Jim ParksMember since 2019
5 years ago
Reply to  LordOfTexas

Sweden begs to disagree. All of the masks, the “social distancing”, the millions of gallons of hand sanitizer, just don’t matter all that much.

kevininmotion
5 years ago
Reply to  LordOfTexas

If the anti-maskers believe in heard immunity so strongly, maybe they should offer to cover the 2 million dead price tag.

bluerum29
5 years ago
Reply to  kevininmotion

Its not about anti-masks, I wear one off and on throughout the day. Its anti-avoiding regular life. Only get one life, can’t waste it.

TKDCMember since 2016🏆 MVP
5 years ago
Reply to  shumway

Completely unrelated, but I think a ball that bounces over the wall in fair territory should be a home run. Why not?

tomerafan
5 years ago
Reply to  renaldo44

Unfortunately thats just not how infection transmission works. Every interaction carries with it the risk of transmission.

Agreed. And 10 minutes on the field, outside, including a couple of breaths unmasked during a photo, is incremental risk compared to his exposure to his teammates over the last up-to-four-days including in-the-dugout and pregame exposure the entire day of the athletic contest at hand, where he was unmasked for the vast, vast majority of that time.

mikejuntMember
5 years ago
Reply to  tomerafan

A lot of people who aren’t his teammates, many of whom are higher risk of serious complications from coronavirus than the healthy young athletes, were also on the field during the celebrations. This included at least one pregnant wife, and a variety of coaches, and media members (interviewers, camerapeople, etc), team owners and executives (many of whom are of elderly age, and one of whom very famously has a serious auto-immune disease you might have heard about), etc.

None of those people were exposed to Justin Turner before or during the game, and all of them had the opportunity to be exposed to Justin Turner during the celebration.

bluerum29
5 years ago

yay for Covid “Titles” in 2020.

carterMember since 2020
5 years ago

You can be reasonable and still think Cash made a bad decision. I get his thinking, but if people are going to argue SSS, they need to actually look at what the numbers said. Nick Anderson faced more batters during the postseason (61) than he faced during the regular season (58). His K% dropped from 44.8% to 14.8%. He was clearly broken/not the same. Some people are going to cite Betts reverse splits, and while I think that is a bit wrong, this is his 2nd straight year of reverse splits (56 wrc+ vs lhp, 181 vs RHP). Last year it was 116 vs lhp, and 142 vs RHP. Even his wRC+ is a bit misleading in my eyes. The last two years he has struck out more vs LHP and walked more as well, while hitting for basically 0 power. He struck out 23.4% of the time vs LHP, and 12.6% vs RHP. He managed just 1 xbh in 64pa vs LHP and put up a 200/313/218 line vs LHP. I get it, it is small sample size, but his career line is better vs RHP as well.

So when you have a future HOF who has struggled in a SSS vs LHP about to face a pitcher who has dominated him today and your option is to go to a pitcher who has forgotten how to pitch in a larger sample size than he had all regular season, well then you made the wrong decision. Mookie Betts swung and missed 3 pitches from Blake Snell yesterday. That isn’t a common occurrence for him this season, except he had swung and missed 3 pitches from Snell as well his last game. I would be a lot more comfortable with the pitching change if it was someone else. Bringing in Anderson of all people was completely inexcusable.

TheGarrettCooperFanClub
5 years ago
Reply to  carter

I did not mind the decision to pull Snell, for reasons mentioned here and in the article, but bringing in Anderson (thank you for bringing up the batters faced and K% questions, I for some reason couldn’t find them), is the real headscratcher to me. Of course, it turned into a “stats vs feel” debate. I would have left Snell in, but it shouldn’t have been surprising to see him come out.

RonnieDobbs
5 years ago

You should mind the decision. This is the epitome of not letting the player play the game. Snell was dominating. Is dominant pitching not the goal of pitching? The silliest part is that they bring in NA to face MB and then they immediately found themselves in a bad matchup vs the more productive/hotter hitter in Seager. It is indefensible, but that is how things go when you are looking to pull your pitcher. The way a guy is throwing is infinitely more important than anything written on paper. I have a feeling that either TB didn’t want Snell to face the order a third time or that they wanted to use Anderson vs Betts. The way the game was playing out was not part of their decision.

tomerafan
5 years ago
Reply to  carter

Also, I’m interested to know how the “3rd time through the order” penalty compares to the “seeing a reliever for the 3rd time in 6 games” penalty. I don’t think the latter is non-existent but all of the discussion of the Rays analytics approach is entirely focused on the former.

RonnieDobbs
5 years ago
Reply to  tomerafan

Many clever folks understand that the third time through the order penalty is not what it looks like on the surface. TB abused Anderson and he was not very effective down the stretch. Its not about looks IMO.

MorlandMember since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  tomerafan

The third time through the order issue is an average. In other words, average pitchers are more likely suffer facing batters the third time. What managers and analysts seem to forget is that not every pitcher is average. Snell has been their ace. When he’s pitching like an ace, they should leave him in, rather than clearly looking for an ecuse to take him out.

mikejuntMember
5 years ago
Reply to  tomerafan

Ben Lindbergh did a ‘reliever familiarity’ analysis for Grantland some years ago and found no discernable effect whatsoever, whereas the TTO penalty is extremely visible for every pitcher in history if you do the analysis.

Jimmie Foxxalorian
5 years ago
Reply to  carter

I agree, it was a poor decision and I don’t fully understand what the Cash’s reasoning was, other than to blindly apply their bullpen strategy regardless of in-game performance. Snell was dominant and he clearly had at least another 1+ IP left in the tank, not to mention the World Series is exactly the appropriate time to keep your stud SP going a little longer than normal if he’s effective in the moment.

And pitch count wasn’t an issue. Snell threw over 100 pitches in 3 of his 11 regular season starts, and in each of those instances he performed at an elite level.

Snell’s an ace-caliber pitcher. As manager, you don’t take your best card for that day and cast it aside. Not in the biggest game of his life, and especially when the RP choice in that situation was questionable. You don’t do that. You keep playing the hot hand and roll the dice!

OkraMember since 2016
5 years ago
Reply to  carter

It would have been nice if the Rays didn’t treat Snell going 5+ while only giving up 2 singles, 0 BB, 9 Ks as a burden. It’s a gift when your starter is that dominant against a great lineup like the Dodgers. They should have been eager to save the over worked bullpen. Very disappointing.

tomerafan
5 years ago

Turner’s test results from yesterday were, apparently, known to be positive in the second inning of tonight’s game.

Also, if ever a statement required correction or retraction in a Fangraphs post, it’s this one. This is simply not true, as we now know.

RonnieDobbs
5 years ago
Reply to  tomerafan

Who cares? Its all about stirring the pot. Welcome to 2020!

Meg RowleyFanGraphs Staff
5 years ago
Reply to  RonnieDobbs

It was the result of how quickly the reporting was evolving, the lateness of the hour, and me simply forgetting how it had been initially phrased in the piece. And while the most important fact remains unchanged – that Turner, knowing he was positive, took the field, often unmasked, during the celebration – this one absolutely merits correction, and more quickly than I managed this morning. My apologies.

Meg RowleyFanGraphs Staff
5 years ago
Reply to  tomerafan

Indeed – as I noted above, I read Ken’s tweet correction the same way Rachael did, and didn’t see Bill’s and other’s subsequent tweets clarifying both the timeline and the nature of the test results as I was editing, so didn’t adjust during that process. I should have remembered to circle back this morning. I appreciate you raising it, and again, apologize for the delay in updating the piece.

Psychic... Powerless...
5 years ago

If you test positive for COVID, you are supposed to immediately quarantine regardless of what your co-workers think about the matter. Period, no exceptions. The fact that Turner willingly risked the lives of others due to FOMO is the epitome of selfishness.

bluerum29
5 years ago

Thus why, if I’m not sick, no need for a test. Then you can’t be forced into quarantine. If I’m not sick I’m going to continue living my life.

LordOfTexasMember since 2019
5 years ago
Reply to  bluerum29

You can spread the virus without feeling under the weather.

bluerum29
5 years ago
Reply to  LordOfTexas

Happens all the time with many kinds of sickness. My wife is convinced I’m a carrier for strep throat, but I’ve never gotten sick with strep throat. Some people will get sick with symptoms, some wont, can’t hide away forever as a society, need to just get back to living.
Based on the people I have been around for extended periods of time, I am more than likely asymptomatic. No worries here.

RonnieDobbs
5 years ago

Where does condemning a person for upvotes fit into the epitome of selfishness scale? Twitter would be a good place for this comment.

deuce26
5 years ago

While Turner’s decision isn’t the one I personally would have made, it should not be the big story here. MLB being able to finish a season marred by COVID-19, labor strife, and logistical problems is worthy of praise. Not to mention, the players and management of the Dodgers finally getting the monkey off their backs. There has been far too much condemnation of people who don’t think and act the way others want them to in this country already.

RonnieDobbs
5 years ago
Reply to  deuce26

Good point. Remember all the people talking about how much of a disaster this was all going to be and how dangerous it was and how many people would die? You might think that they learned a lesson when this wasn’t that. Sure enough, the second the season is done, they are right back at it. Reality gave us a short break.

ClaydvMember since 2018
5 years ago
Reply to  RonnieDobbs

Not sure how you’re calling over 215,000 ppl dead not a disaster.

bluerum29
5 years ago
Reply to  Claydv

People die everyday from a many different things. It is tragic, but that doesn’t mean it is a disaster.

D-WizMember since 2019
5 years ago

Turns out MLB/MLBPA made the right call by squeezing in the postseason like they did with no off days until the World Series. It was clearly irresponsible for Turner to be out there celebrating, at times maskless, but it’s hard to blame him for getting carried away in the moment. It also raises questions as to how he was infected, given that the teams were supposed to be in a “bubble” – hopefully his case isn’t serious and hasn’t/doesn’t spread to anyone else. This was a great World Series, and of course we could only get about 5 minutes into appreciating it before the realities of 2020 came crashing down on everyone, but hey, I guess that’s better than having no World Series at all!

RonnieDobbs
5 years ago
Reply to  D-Wiz

You think an infected person wearing a mask would be very reassuring?

bosoxforlifeMember since 2016
5 years ago

I am probably the last vestige of the past on Fangraphs, but I am not. I am a strong believer in using numbers to advance the game. I go back to the 60’s when Earnshaw Cook made the first attempts to quantify baseball. He saw then that the sacrifice bunt was an absolutely worthless play with anybody hitting over the Mendoza Line. It was known when I played, velociraptor played a speedy CF, that getting on base was a valuable commodity. Arm strength never needed a computer to tell anyone with vision that Dwight Evans carried a cannon on his right shoulder or that Johnny Damon had a 20 arm, to use modern terminology. I wanted to know the run scoring probability of a man on second with 1 out against a man on first with no outs, but every situation is different so those numbers can, at best, only be a part of the equation. My rapidly increasing dislike of excessive use of analytics could not have been brought into clearer focus than by Kevin Cash’s bizarre behavior in the 6th inning of last night’s game.
With that said, during last night’s chat I asked, early in the game, what Cash would do with Snell if he was dealing, and he WAS dealing. Sadly, from my perspective, he let his computer, instead of his eyes, make the crucial decision and, while the outcome can never be known, it was a terrible decision and it was, not one, but two terrible decisions made at the same moment. I will always believe that top of the rotation aces should get a very long leash when they are showing that they are at the top of their game. Snell deserved to be the person who took the loss, if that is what might have happened. He had earned that! How can a player, or any person in any walk of life, dare to be the best they can be, dare to be great if they are never given that chance. Trevor Bauer is going to try to put that question to the baseball industry. He wants to be great but will the Princeton educated number crunchers give him a chance. Will Max Fried ever be given the opportunity to throw that 140 pitch game that Brian Snitker says he could easily do? Can Blake Snell join the ranks of Burdette, Koufax, Gibson, Lolich and all the World Series heroes of the past when he is pulled, without a sound reason, from the most important game of his life when he is performing at his absolute best. I don’t hold out much hope. Cash then doubled down with a 12 against the dealer’s ace by bringing in Anderson, who has simply been awful this post-season, What the “bleep” did the computer produce that indicated that Anderson was the pitcher to bring in then. If the computer told Cash to bring in Anderson then the computer must have blown a circuit or been programmed by Andrew Friedman. There has been an ongoing debate on Fangraphs about some aspects of modern analytics. Last night’s fiasco by Cash should answer one of the questions. Baseball is nowhere the game it once was when the stars can’t be all they can be and computers make the decisions.

LordOfTexasMember since 2019
5 years ago
Reply to  bosoxforlife

The Rays got to game 6 of the WS by doing exactly what they did last night all season – pulling their starters early, regardless of how well they are dealing. Dance with who brought ya.

bosoxforlifeMember since 2016
5 years ago
Reply to  LordOfTexas

A major part of the enjoyment of the game of baseball is derived from being thrilled by great individual performances. As these performances lessen in number, 5 1/3, no matter how good, does not qualify and the quality of the experience of following baseball closely, which i have done for 70 years is lessened.

LordOfTexasMember since 2019
5 years ago
Reply to  bosoxforlife

I agree with you that the way the Rays manage their players is not always the most enjoyable for fans, and it’s not the best for creating superstars. I enjoy it because I like seeing teams try weird new strategies, variety is the spice of life.

RonnieDobbs
5 years ago
Reply to  bosoxforlife

I’m with you buddy fighting the good fight. In any other industry, we would call this a poor working environment. This community, Twitter, etc is essentially advocating for insane micromanagement of the players. Pulling an SP early is just the tip of the iceberg. Infielders are asked to stand in a spot and wait for the ball to be hit at them as opposed to ranging or anticipating. Players are all over the filed in spots that they are not great at. Half the league is in a rebuild. Its bad baseball for sure, but I still enjoy the decent bits and pieces. I am not too far from finding the entire thing intolerable – maybe things can start trending in the right direction before its too late.

mikejuntMember
5 years ago
Reply to  RonnieDobbs

Given that teams shift over 50% of plate appearances these days, do you really think that the players aren’t practicing playing baseball at the shifted positions ..all the time?

Most of these players have been playing in shifts for their entire professional careers at this point. There is no ‘unfamiliarity’ with the shifted role – they do it more than half the time! They practice it constantly!

Jimmie Foxxalorian
5 years ago
Reply to  bosoxforlife

@bosoxforlife, I strongly agree. I think Cash blindly followed his bullpen strategy as if this were a regular season game. Cash was probably following the 3rd-time-through-the-order rule of thumb and yanked him. Yet his RP choices were questionable, and his ace-caliber stud SP was dominant. It was as if the in-game performance of an ace in a potentially career-defining big moment was being wholly ignored in favor of basic, consistent execution of the Rays bullpen strategy.

If a manager can’t have the confidence to use his Cy-Young-winning stud past the 6th inning, what’s the point of a stud SP? The World Series is the moment you pitch that hot hand late into the night, for as long as he can safely throw, and in this case, Snell was well below his season-high pitch count. In fact (as I pointed out in another comment on this thread), Snell threw over 100 pitches in 3 of his 11 starts, and he performed well in each of those games that he was “stretched.”

Every situation is different, and I think Cash failed to adjust his strategy to the situation. Snell baffled Dodger hitters and even made Mookie swing and miss. I don’t get it.

Great players are often remembered by what they did in big moments. Snell was having such a moment last night, and unfortunately we didn’t get to truly see how deep into the game he could take it. And that is both unfortunate for Snell and bad for fans of the game.

bosoxforlifeMember since 2016
5 years ago

Thanks for the support. I often get ridiculed for standing up to these robots who think a computer is infallible and the output dictates the outcome before the action occurs. I hear defenders of that position claim that they understand that the analytics only move the needle slightly but that isn’t what they convey in many instances. Last night offers two very clear examples. Did Cash realize that Mookie’s reverse splits were shocking this year, to a level that I don’t believe I have ever seen before. In addition he had looked helpless against Snell in his first 2 AB’s. That alone is one of the worst managerial decisions I have ever seen. Regarding the use of Anderson at that point, a computer would probably average out Anderson’s performance over a lengthy period time. Because he was so good until this post-season a computer might spit out that he could be expected to perform well when, in real life, his very poor post-season would be obvious to someone with a pair of eyes and some logical decision making. It seems incredulous that Cash would think that Anderson was more likely to be effective in that situation than Snell. This is more than simply Cash taking Snell out before he had begun to show signs of losing it. The two decisions do not stand up to any level of scrutiny.

Mahoney
5 years ago
Reply to  bosoxforlife

Last night’s version of Blake Snell, minus the TTO penalty = (still) the Rays’ best option at the time.

You don’t need to be Grady Little to see the logic of that 😉

Original Greaser Bob
5 years ago

World Series Champions*

D-WizMember since 2019
5 years ago

You may just be trolling here, but really there is absolutely no reason for an asterisk on this one. Two teams we thought were going to be very good before the season, and then were very good during the season, played an extremely entertaining, competitive World Series after being very good throughout the postseason. Covid played no role in the series until after the final pitch had been thrown (aside from the neutral site). It was just regular baseball! And I hope we don’t collectively get bogged down in a debate about the “legitimacy” of this title. It’s also kind of nice to see Kershaw et al. finally get one!

bluerum29
5 years ago
Reply to  D-Wiz

Covid played a role in the entire season. All of the rule changes and protocols as a result of covid are what give it an asterisk. That is the same for all sports that have changed their rules and procedures in 2020 due to covid. Hopefully when 2021 sports seasons are played all of those covid protocols have been done away with so we can have things normal.

TKDCMember since 2016🏆 MVP
5 years ago
Reply to  bluerum29

Would you put an asterisk on every championship prior to 1947? I mean, why? How does this make sense or bring you joy? It’s hard to view this as anything other than a troll and/or sour grapes because your team didn’t win.

bluerum29
5 years ago
Reply to  TKDC

No sour grapes, I’ve been saying that the titles mean nothing this year since March. It doesn’t bring me joy. Just like the covid protocols didn’t bring me joy all season. The covid rules changed things this year. Give us sports that aren’t effected by this.

RonnieDobbs
5 years ago
Reply to  D-Wiz

A made-up playoff format. 60 game season. Players sitting out. Done. I don’t need to provide any more reasons. No need to get bogged in debate – there isn’t one. Its OK though.. it is what it is and I thought it was fun.

mikejuntMember
5 years ago
Reply to  RonnieDobbs

Theres plenty to criticize about records set in the regular season, but the reality is that this playoff format was -harder- than the normal one (an extra round, no offdays in the LDS and LCS, no home field advantage for having the better seed, etc). There’s no rational basis to assert that the WS title, itself, is devalued by the situation. This world series was -harder- to win than a normal one, once the playoffs started.

In fact, that almost certainly helped ensure the two best teams in baseball faced off, and made a difference in their contest.

RonnieDobbs
5 years ago

You bet this is asterisked. It is a strange twist that the best team actually won as the door was wide open for anything to happen. I think that lends a bit more legitimacy to it, but you bet this is a giant asterisk.

Jimmie Foxxalorian
5 years ago

I wouldn’t put an asterisk on it simply because regardless of shortened season, all teams played under the same rules and circumstances. At the end of the day, the best team won.

2020 will be remembered for enough other things that the asterisk would be redundant, anyway.

bluerum29
5 years ago

It will be remembered as the title that was earned under covid rules/procedures.

RonnieDobbs
5 years ago

At least the Rays achieved their goal of not letting Snell face the order a third time.

r24j
5 years ago

Watch out, Rachel. Commenters who use FanGraph’s every day for free will now threaten to withhold financial support for all of your livelihoods in a dire period of history because you dared to mention the realities of the situation we live in!

RonnieDobbs
5 years ago
Reply to  r24j

If the comment section is not a place for feedback, then I don’t know what is.

TKDCMember since 2016🏆 MVP
5 years ago
Reply to  RonnieDobbs

Cancel culture is great if you agree with it, right?

bosoxforlifeMember since 2016
5 years ago

The similarities between Game 6 and the Phillies very first game in 2018 under new manager Gabe Kapler are stark. In that game the Phillies were leading 5-0 going into the bottom of the 6th. Nola’s line was 5/2/0/0/3/0. Inciarte led off with double then Albies flied out. At this point Kapler pulled Nola after 68 pitches and brought in Hoby Milner, a lefty to face Freeman who promptly hit a HR. Kapler said “he liked the match-up” which is questionable at best. The Braves hammered the Phillies hapless bullpen and got the Phillies going on a downward slide that season that hasn’t ended. What does this have to do with last night? There are no other managers tied to the computer more than Kapler and Cash. My argument with Cash’s move last night was that this was Blake Snell, 2018 Cy Young winner in 2018 Cy Young form, not the #4 starter, and the eyes had to be able to see that but the slave to the computer just couldn’t bring himself around to believing that. How far could Snell have gone? He had earned the right to find out!

sabr16
5 years ago

“On some level, it wasn’t surprising that Snell was lifted. He hadn’t seen a seventh inning all season.”

And that right there is what is wrong with baseball. Hopefully Cash’s pure stupidity will mark the tipping point. Baseball at the moment is sick; sick as in ill. There are many problems with baseball, for example, four hour playoff games. However, starters not even being allowed to go thru a lineup three times regardless as to how dominant they were, ranks near the top.

LordOfTexasMember since 2019
5 years ago
Reply to  sabr16

Baseball evolves and hopefully will continue to do so. 100 years ago relief pitching or the 5-man rotation might have been looked at the same way by some.

Old Washington Senators FanMember since 2020
5 years ago

Rachel – excellent piece as ever – thanks for the update.

Congrats to the Dodgers and their fans – nothing like it when your boys win it all!!!

Reading the comments section, you can see why the USA’s COVID response is one of the worst in the world and the toxic impact of the misinformation and contradictions from the top have had.

TKDCMember since 2016🏆 MVP
5 years ago

If you think this is bad, you should check out less enlightened corners of the internet.

viceroyMember since 2020
5 years ago

Would love to see an article looking at the 3rd time penalty as it compares to the starting pitcher’s pitch counts/performance. I have to imaging cutting through the order twice in less then 75 pitches or with a K to baserunner ratio above 4 would not have as big of a penalty third time through. I know we all question “what if” when thinking of Snell and Greinke’s painful losses the last couple years. Similarly, would like to see whether reliever familiarity over time has a penalty comparable to the 3rd time through the order.

bosoxforlifeMember since 2016
5 years ago

In this madhouse that the United States has become, maybe something can be learned from what happened last night after the game. The world will be watching to see just what Justin Turner’s action will have caused. Globe Life Field could be seen as a petri dish with a bit of a controlled environment. We know who was there and we saw their actions. What will come of it? Will there be a massive outbreak, or nothing at all. The outcome of the baseball game pales in comparison with what the world is facing. It has been almost a year since this horrible plague descended upon the earth and nobody appears to have a firm, or any, grasp at all of what the situation is or where we are all heading. Maybe nothing can be gleaned from the happenings of last night, but maybe, just maybe, another piece of the puzzle that is wrecking our lives, and those of all the peoples of the world can be put in place and help us all regain some semblance of confidence in the future.

ianmSC
5 years ago

This article is complete trash

elwyon
5 years ago

The World Series is the annual championship series of Major League Baseball (MLB) in the United States and Canada, contested since 1903 between the champion teams of the American League (AL) and the National League. The winner of the World Series championship is determined through a best-of-seven playoff, and the winning team is awarded the Commissioner’s Trophy. As the series is played during the fall season in North America, it is sometimes referred to as the Fall Classic. Since 2017, it has been officially known as the World Series presented by YouTube TV for sponsorship reasons. https://www.telldunkin.one/

CheeseballMember since 2016
5 years ago

It’s the relish with which this article dwells on the negative that really leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Gloating over other people’s mistakes is something some people like to do, but it’s not what I like about baseball, or writing about baseball.

I think Jeff Sullivan used to say “It’s better to be positive than to be negative,” or words to that effect. I remember that.

Alice Cooper
5 years ago

Look, I used to come here often. Every day. The type of person who pays for a membership.

I haven’t came back here in months because of the overt leftism that was spilling into almost every article and comment section.

Sad to see that nothing has changed. It seems odd to me that someone who is complaining about losing money (Appleman) would be OK with chasing away ~50% of their readership because he doesn’t have the guts to reign in his writers and have them stick to baseball.

Oh well, no one is missing me anyway.

DannyMember since 2016
5 years ago
Reply to  Alice Cooper

I am incredibly frustrated that so many people can’t seem to tell the difference between values-based discussions and fact-based discussions.

How we preferred when a starting pitcher went all 9 is a values-based discussion. It’s an opinion – it can be debated with other opinions. So are “left” and “right” values.

How the plague spreads is science. Cold, hard facts. Now, it’s not understood perfectly, there are plenty of conflict in the facts, but it’s not opinion. Neither is the TTO penalty.

Stop blending the two. Stating facts about how Turner may have infected others is not “leftism,” any more than preferring a workhorse starter (even with knowledge of the TTO penalty) is “stupid.”