The Indians: If Abreu, Why Not Damon?
Reports last night suggested that the Angels and Indians were working on a deal that would ship Bobby Abreu’s discontented soul to Cleveland. The deal has apparently fallen apart, and right now, it doesn’t look like Abreu’s going to get his wish to get out of Anaheim. However, Buster Olney raised an interesting question this morning:
Just a thought: If CLE willing to trade for Abreu to platoon in LF, why not sign Johnny Damon, who had a better year in ’11?
— Buster Olney (@Buster_ESPN) March 30, 2012
Abreu and Damon are four months apart in age, so the Indians apparent willingness to acquire Abreu rules out the idea of Damon being too old for the Tribe. They’re also pretty similar players at this point in this point in their careers.
Abreu, 2011: .253/.353/.365, 104 wRC+
Damon, 2011: .261/.326/.418, 109 wRC+
Damon’s walk rate diminished quite a bit last year, but he’s been able to hold onto more of his power than Abreu has, so the differences mostly cancel out. If we go back and include data from 2010, the numbers get even more similar – Abreu’s wRC+ is 111 compared to Damon’s 109.
And, since Travis Hafner is taking up the DH role for Cleveland, defense needs to be a factor as well, as the Indians are shopping for a part-time left fielder. Damon still can’t throw a ball more than 30 feet without inspiring a round of laughs, but he’s certainly got more range than Abreu at this point, and would also be the better defensive option. Really, it’s hard to make a case for Abreu being a better option than Damon for 2012, especially given Abreu’s apparently belief that he’s still deserving of an everyday job. If you’re picking up a part-time outfielder, it might help if that guy understands that he’s a part-time outfielder, and isn’t going to whine to the press when he’s not in the line-up everyday.
The main difference between the two at this point might be cost. It’s pretty likely that the Angels were going to pick up almost all of Abreu’s salary to help facilitate him going away, while Damon might not be willing to play for something close to $1 million. But, the Indians have already shown that they’re willing to bring in a Damon-style player to fill a need, so if he’s interested in continuing his career, perhaps he should call up Chris Antonetti and see just what kind of offer they’d make him.
Dave is the Managing Editor of FanGraphs.
I think it comes down to cost. Being a Tigers fan I vividly remember Damon’s wife saying that she didn’t want him going to Detroit because they weren’t “cosmopolitan” enough, and it basically took the Tigers paying way more than he was worth for him to come there. Granted he was a little more in demand 2 years ago than he was now and as bad as Cleveland is in terms of location it’s probably still better than Detroit it still may take alot of money for him to come to them than he is worth.
*alot more money for him to come to them than he is worth.
http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html
Thanks for the link mikesavino85, nice contribution. Next time I’ll make sure to say that they had to pay him 30-35% more than everybody else was offering him because that is so much easier to say than “alot”.
yeah right, an imaginary creature…
so fake.
I think the point was you’re supposed to say ‘a lot’ instead of ‘alot’, which is just as easy.
Yeah, because Tampa and St. Pete are so cosmopolitan. I think it’s clear Damon is willing to play wherever they will take him at this point.
I see your point. But I’d imagine the weather/beaches etc are much more appealing.
True, but Tampa is much closer to Orlando where Damon lives(atleast he did at the time of the Tigers signing don’t know if he still does though) and has much better weather than Detroit and Cleveland. Also Tampa was a clear playoff team or atleast playoff contender where Cleveland likely isn’t.
You married, AJS? And if you are, then happily bear in mind your wife likely is much lower maintenance than Mrs. Damon is.
They have a saying in Cleveland that has allowed the masses to not commit mass suicide. It goes, “At least we’re not Detroit.”
Yeah I’m from Metro Detroit but alot of my family is from Cleveland so they always say things like that and we bicker back and forth about what city is better. When we do I kinda feel like that lame old saying that everybody uses on the internet, “Arguing over the internet is like winning the Special Olympics, even if you win you’re still retarded.”
However, Detroit does have more than two buildings.
Yeah, but those bldgs are abandoned…
But seriously, I think it may be pride that’s keeping Damon from signing with the Indians (or anywhere for that matter). You would think that he would’ve gotten the message that he’s near the end of the line and the “big contract” isn’t waiting for him.
Obviously Damon has not seen this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZzgAjjuqZM&feature=relmfu
Downtown Detroit is actually a pretty nice place to be now-a-days as opposed to even a few years ago.
Hey don’t mock Detroit’s Renaissance. And speaking of Renaissance, the Renaissance center is like 5 buildings…which proves that there are more than 2 buildings which are not abandoned.
Anyways, Abreu/Damon are both decrepit now. Do the Indians really have no one in their entire minor league system who could possibly equal their production?
As a Ne Ohioan I can say I have never heard this ever.
I’ve never been to Detroit, but Cleveland sucks.
I hate the traffic in Detroit area but their are a lot of upper class suburbs and Ann Arbor is definitely a high class city that is real close. I know that doesn’t compare to New York or Chicago (which I believe was Mrs. Damon’s preferance) but I would guess that the areas surrounding Detroit are nicer than Cleveland.
The thing with Damon is that he doesn’t really represent a substantial upgrade over what the Indians already have. If he’s a better hitter than Shelley Duncan or Russ Canzler at this point—and that is an if—it isn’t by much, plus you’ve got to factor in his poor defense.
The question to ask is: Is the difference between Damon and Duncan/Canzler worth as much as it would take to sign Damon? Probably not, especially since the starting job would (theoretically) be temporary until Sizemore comes back.
http://wahoosonfirst.com/2012/03/21/johnny-damon-to-the-indians/
This applies to Abreu as well, but as you said Damon would probably cost more.
The Indians seem to really struggle developing their own OF prospects. (Sizemore and Choo were trades). It would have loved if they pursued someone like Reddick this past off-season or try and buy-low on someone like Dominic Brown (who seems to be forgotten in Philly.)
He’s not forgotten.
Not forgotten by the fans but Manuel and RAJ clearly think he’s a piece of ess.
BDF… I don’t believe Uncle Charlie or RAJ think of Dom as a piece of S. I think they correctly see that the guy can’t play remotely adequate defense in the OF at present. (of course, that didn’t stop them from playing Ibanez out there last year… but I digress)
RAJ has admitted it was a mistake when they brought him up the first time and let him sit… instead of playing everyday in the minors.
They don’t want to repeat that mistake while the guy needs to learn to play LF now. So, they send him down and let him get his feet under himself (defensively) in AAA.
Dom Brown has played only 35 games in LF in the minors, over 6 seasons. He has made 5 errors in LF in those 35 games. His range factor / game is very low (1.34)… though that could easily be skewed by the low number of games, and possible partial games in LF. No “per 9 inning” fielding data available. His fielding % on the few balls he reaches in LF??? .904 That’s abysmal.
For comparison I proffer a “Mendoza line” of LF defense:
Greg Luzinski in LF (MLB career)
RF/g = 1.56
fld% = .972
a more contemporary comp? Logan Morrison?:
RF/g = 1.84
fld% = .977
And, before you jump up and say SSS… OK. Brown in RF (MiLB career 325 games):
RF/g = 1.77
fld% = .955
He had the exact same fld% in his RF trials in MLB.
Domonic Brown appears to have every physical tool known to mankind. But he is a frightshow in the OF. They need to coach him up to just “poor”. Looking at his minor league record, I’m not sure they can. But they sure need to try.
Why does everyone assume the Phillies have forgotten about Dom Brown?
I picked up Dom Brown for my Fantasy Team last year, my fantasy team ended up dead last. Go Nats!
lol
Also I just want to say that I know some MLB Front Offices’ aren’t always the brightest people in the world but I think some analysts underrate how smart they are.(This is more aimed at Buster for bringing this up than you Dave) I mean Damon is probably the most well known FA bat left on the market, do you think that the entire front office of the Indians just forgot about him? I’m sure they looked into him and either he didn’t want to come there or he cost too much money.
Figuring the Indians would’ve given the Angels basically nothing (say, perhaps, a ‘may-be-LOOGY-someday’), how much $$$ savings would you need to balance out Abreu/Damon? I’m guessing not a whole lot.
The big thing is if Abreu will accept a platoon role. If not, then possibly you don’t want him no matter what share of his salary the Angels cover.
I’m assuming the Indians are interested in Abreu as part of a platoom. Abreu, unlike Damon, has a history of exhibiting a platoon split at the plate where as Damon hasn’t displayed much of one the last few years. While both had down years last year, Abreu still hit right-handed pitching better than Damon (who actually had a slight reverse platoon split last year) and was much better against right-handed pitchers in 2010 than Damon was. It’s always been my assumption that Damon is having a hard time finding work because he’s just not well-suited for a platoon role.
Comon, Cleveland is not going to challenge the Tigers, let the “prospects ” get a shot , Canzler, Weigler, whomever, leave the seniors alone this time, It’s not 1995, Martinez, etc…
It is unlikely the Indians compete, but the same was said last year.
And they finished under .500 and 15 games back.
They got off to a 30-15 start, and 50-67 the rest of the way. Had a real easy schedule over the first 1/4 of the year.
There is a guy in my league who will hound you endlessly with counteroffers by texts and email if you give him even a whiff of being interested in a trade. Consequently, I only send him an offer when there’s a very good reason – like, because of keeper rules it worked for us to make a trade around Tulo for Votto. But if I see a little #3 OF for #3 P-type swap that may work for us both I usually don’t bother asking because it is not worth the hassle of dealing with him. Maybe a little bit of something similar is at work here with Damon – over the last few years he (and Boras) have generated quite a bit of press about the contract negotiations for a semi-washed up player in his late 30’s, as recently as a couple of months ago complaining that the Rays signing Luke Scott instead of him.
The last few sentences was the answer to Olney’s question.
guess what guys detroit isnt a possibilty for damon, but cleveland is so its pointless. as an ohioan if damon is willing to play in detroit then he should be willing to come to cleveland and bat 1st or 2nd and play left field every day on a team that can make the playoffs
I don’t think Damon wants to take a platoon role. His only reason to play at this point is go after 3000 hits. He might have to live on a paltry 1 million a year.
Why not just give Cranzler a shot instead? His floor, I would imagine, has to be the same as the ceiling for Damon/Abreu at this point.
Or, why not just go for the long term fix? Move Kipnis or Santana back the left field, and either let Marson be the full-time catcher or Donald/Lopez start at second? Wouldn’t that make more sense both offensively and defensively than Abreu or Damon?
You’re missing an apostrophe on your second “Indians”.
The ONLY reason Abreu to the Indians makes any sense is financially. The Indians are about not spending money right now. I guess that’s okay if they are conceding the season, but the only team that resembles anything close to a ‘good’ team in their division is Detroit. They really ought to try to shore up their roster in case Detroit falters, because Detroit is in a situation where if they lose a pitcher or two or a position player or two, they are out of it.
Let’s hope Cleveland is looking to add a real major leaguer or two after the season starts.