The Marlins Will Sue Almost Anyone

The relationship between fans and the franchises for whom they root is something I’m going to examine over the next few weeks. The Marlins provide a case study in how to cultivate tension in that relationship.

The Marlins had themselves an eventful offseason, trading away Dee Gordon, Marcell Ozuna, Giancarlo Stanton, and Christian Yelich, among others. The fire sale was so extensive that the MLBPA filed a grievance against the team for misuse of revenue sharing, a development that I discussed here.

But that’s not all. As I’ve also noted, the City of Miami and County of Miami-Dade are suing Jeffrey Loria for purportedly denying them what they believe they are due of the net proceeds from the $1.2 billion sale of the Miami Marlins to the Derek Jeter/Bruce Sherman ownership group. The latest developments in that case include a request from the city for Loria’s tax returns in discovery — and Loria’s attorneys own request that the dispute be heard in arbitration rather than in court.

And even that’s not all. The offseason has also produced a minor fracas featuring Marlins Man, whose real name is Laurence Leavy, a successful Miami attorney best known for his steady presence behind home plate at every Marlins home game. After the Marlins rejected his most recent offer to renew his season tickets — $200,000 over three years — he declared himself a free agent and is expected to “sign” with, of all teams, the Detroit Tigers. Marlins representatives had what could be characterized as an interesting response to Leavy’s six-figure offer.

Here’s Leavy discussing it in a piece by Darren Rovell at ESPN:

“They said that I did nothing for the team, I don’t promote the Marlins, nobody buys season tickets because of me, nobody buys advertising because of me, and they don’t care what I do.”

For a team with well-documented money and attendance problems, turning down $200,000 from an uber wealthy fan all while insulting him for not generating more advertising revenue may not be the best business strategy. And while it’s easy to look at Leavy as something of a punchline to the Marlins’ offseason, the situation is also reflective of the organization’s troubled relationship with its fans.

The Marlins’ difficulties with season ticket holders began before Derek Jeter and company ever assumed ownership. Jeffrey Loria’s front office made a habit of repeatedly filing lawsuits against the Marlins’ own fans. From the Miami New Times:

In fact, the Marlins have sued at least nine season ticket holders and luxury suite owners since 2013. That virtually never happens in sports, experts say.

The Times is right that it’s unusual for a professional sports team to sue ticket holders. And the basis of those suits is even stranger. The Marlins asked their fans to promise to buy season tickets for multiple years in a row in order to receive benefits like better stadium parking. Then, after the Marlins’ myriad fire sales, when attendance crashed and season ticket holders lost interest, the Marlins used that promise to sue those fans for breach of contract.

But what made the Loria-era Marlins’ litigation strategy against their fans especially brazen were the lengths to which the organization was evidently willing to go to win. Again, per the Miami New Times:

In January, the team won a judgment against [one ticket holder, named Kenneth Sack] for the full $97,200, but his attorney appealed because the lawyer had missed key hearings and filings after suffering a heart attack and spending months in the hospital. That civil case remains open.

But in the meantime, the team has used that judgment to try to nab a building owned by Sack. On March 12, the Marlins initiated a foreclosure proceeding for a commercial building Sack owns in Oakland Park, arguing that they can seize the property to fulfill the $97,200 he owes them; they ask the judge to appoint a receiver so they can begin collecting rent from the location. (Oddly, county property appraisers say the building at 5090 N. Dixie Hwy. is actually worth $725,000.)

That’s right: the Marlins obtained a judgment against a season ticket holder using as leverage the fact that his attorney suffered a heart attack. They then attempted to take away a building he owns to collect on that judgment — and all because he didn’t want to renew his season tickets. This sort of scorched-earth litigation tactic has led some of the targets of the Marlins’ ire to file counterclaims alleging the team engaged in unlawful deceptive practices by having the fire sales in the first place. The argument goes something like this: the fans signed the multi-year agreements based on the the Marlins’ express and implied representations that certain stars would be on the team. Then, the Marlins pulled a bait and switch, selling off those players while expecting ticket holders to pay anyway.

But bizarrely, at the same time, the Marlins were suing some fans for not buying season tickets. Specifically, they were refusing to sell season tickets to those who share or sell too many of those tickets. That’s because of fine print the Marlins insert into their tickets.

The Marlins ban season ticketholders from reselling more than 30 percent of their stubs. (A Major League Baseball spokesman confirms the 30 percent threshold is a Marlins policy, not an MLB-wide rule, although other teams also have their own standards on reselling season tickets.)

And the Marlins enforce that rule, refusing to sell season tickets to people who violate that policy.

There was a belief that with the change in ownership would curb some of the excesses of Loria’s litigious efforts against his team’s fans. But even after Jeter and Bruce Sherman acquired the team, suits against ticket holders remain pending.

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The Marlins made just $206 million in ticket revenue in 2016, avoiding last place by just $1 million over the Tampa Bay Rays. Ticket sales aren’t the primary driver of a team’s value, but they are important, and as Forbes’ franchise-value data seems to indicate, they can represent the difference between making and losing money.

Obviously, more people in seats can lead to greater profitability — especially for clubs that make the playoffs — but what the Marlins are doing here is unique. Because, consider: the Marlins haven’t sued just their fans; they’ve also sued ballpark concession vendors who, due to low attendance, were unable to stay in business and thus renew their contracts or pay the $2 million entry fee charged by the team.

What makes that tactic strange is that those lawsuits include claims against companies that have filed for bankruptcy protection, which means that the team is engaged in expensive litigation against entities that may have little or no ability to pay back the amount the team says it’s owed. For a team with money problems, suing bankrupt vendors isn’t a sound financial strategy. Beyond wasting money on expensive contested litigation, it also has a chilling effect on agreements with other vendors, who may well be less likely to do business with the Marlins as a result of these lawsuits.

Thus far, Major League Baseball has shown no sign of intervening, even when the lawsuits caused an embarrassment during the 2017 All-Star festivities. That is particularly concerning to the Marlins’ long-term outlook, particularly because the team’s longstanding attendance problems have reached a critical point so far this season, with the team averaging fewer than 16,000 fans so far on the young campaign. Yes, it’s early, but those games were also against the Cubs and Red Sox, two star-powered teams that ordinarily draw well, even on the road. You could say that the Marlins are conducting a peculiar type of experiment: what happens when a team alienates its fans to such a degree that no one is left to watch.





Sheryl Ring is a litigation attorney and General Counsel at Open Communities, a non-profit legal aid agency in the Chicago suburbs. You can reach her on twitter at @Ring_Sheryl. The opinions expressed here are solely the author's. This post is intended for informational purposes only and is not intended as legal advice.

93 Comments
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sadtromboneMember since 2020
8 years ago

Two thoughts…

1) Somehow $67,000 for four season tickets (even prime season tickets) is considered a discount. That’s higher than the median household income in the United States.

2) While the Marlins may have some legal standing to sue their fans, it is still pretty disgusting to lock fans into multi-year contracts and then hold a fire sale.

Marlins Man sounds like a piece of work too, but I don’t care about him one way or the other.

mikejuntMember
8 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

I mean, front row behind home plate, 81 games.

Just for perspective, I am scanning the secondary market for a trip I’m taking to LA to catch a series at Dodger Stadium (my first), and there’s a day game when I am there that should have particularly cheap tickets. I am eyeballing the Dodgers’ premium Dugout Club (first 8 rows, dugout to dugout basically), which for this game have been as low as $250-300 a ticket. If they drop closer to $200, I’ll try to grab one and experience the best seating in the house one time. The Dodgers sell those seats individually for $550-950 per seat.

In looking at this, I have seen the single-seat season ticket prices for the dugout club seats: they range from $65,000 per season for the worst seats to $87,000 per season for the first row seats.

I get that’s LA and everything, but Loria’s offering to buy 4 seats at that same rate.

Prime location season tickets are incredibly expensive luxury purchases.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
8 years ago
Reply to  mikejunt

I don’t disagree that they are insanely expensive everywhere. But that just annoys me even more. I just don’t like it.

(I just noticed why mikejunt said this: I meant to say that it bothers me how $67,000 is somehow a discount. Whoops.)

MoateMember since 2022
8 years ago
Reply to  mikejunt

Comparing the current Marlins to the Current Dodgers is a UNIVERSE of difference.

If those seats remain empty game after game wouldn’t it be better to have sold them? It’s like airplane tickets. They have value all the way up until the game is finished, and then they’re completely worthless. Each and every game they don’t see butts in those seats makes his offer better.

Also, the 30% rule is nuts. What POSSIBLE reason can you have to not allow that, especially on club/suite levels? You’re getting the guaranteed money up front at face value. Worst case is someone buys that ticket from the seller at a reduced rate and you miss out on no money. Best case is that the cheap ticket is sold AND someone else now has to buy another ticket because your demand is still high but supply is lower.

This team is just horribly, horribly run from top to bottom is all it seems like.

(Edited because I forgot a word)

Doug LampertMember since 2016
8 years ago
Reply to  Moate

The reason to have a limit on resales is to prevent people from buying season tickets specifically for resale (aka Scalping).

It annoys me when I want to buy tickets, and the game is “sold out” but resellers have thousands of tickets available (for more than face value plus a “handling fee”.

It also costs the team money if there is a discount on season tickets, which there pretty much always is.

Annoyed fans + lost revenue is bad. I have no problem at all with a policy that all tickets must be used by the purchaser or resold through a specific team authorized reseller for instance.

PhilMember since 2016
8 years ago
Reply to  Doug Lampert

Sure that is a problem. But is it one the Marlins are likely to ever have?

MoateMember since 2022
8 years ago
Reply to  Doug Lampert

Here’s a pretty good article about Season Tickets: https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2017/8/16/16147716/season-tickets-end-secondary-sellers

The economics you speak of just aren’t in place in the way you’d think. Stubhub is just as frequently used to DUMP season tickets for below face for bad match ups. I once bought Phillies tickets below face value and almost broke even when you considered the meal voucher involved. It’s an isolated example, but it’s part of a larger user behavior.

We’re not talking about the Dodgers or the Yankees or Cubs here. Those are established franchises who sell tickets when the team on the field is only mediocre. The Marlins have trouble getting people in the door when the product is good, so disincentivizing people from guaranteeing you a large chunk of money seems very stupid and short sighted. Bird in the hand sort of thing.

Michael
8 years ago
Reply to  Moate

It’s not just about the revenue…teams have a vested interest in preserving the value of their tickets. Sure, it’s nice to sell more tickets, but fans eventually change their behavior and wait for cheap stubhub tickets instead of paying full price for lower tier matchups. It’s about protecting the integrity of your ticket prices. (As a Pirates fan during the 20 year streak, I recall multiple years where they discounted so heavily that I could go to almost any game for 50% off. I stopped going times I couldn’t get a good enough discount.)

evo34Member since 2023
8 years ago
Reply to  Michael

“It’s not just about the revenue…teams have a vested interest in preserving the value of their tickets. ”

This is very true. It’s why team like the NY Islanders quietly allow employees to give away tickets (to bad midweek games) with secret Ticketmaster codes. It fills seats, and no one know that 10%-20% of the crowd was given free tickets.

timprov
8 years ago
Reply to  Moate

Theoretically, from the description here, splitting season tickets with someone could be breach of contract under that rule, which is amazingly shortsighted. Maybe the actual contracts except it somehow, or maybe the Marlins just don’t enforce that part (though trusting them to continue doing so seems like a bad plan).

I only have anecdotal evidence of how many split- or group-purchase plans are being sold in my own market, but it’s a substantial number.

mikejuntMember
8 years ago
Reply to  Moate

I mention it to point out that MM offered to pay literally 1/5th the price per seat (his offer was 200k for 4 seats for 3 years).

The Marlins should probably have done it just for PR and sustained income, but its still remarkable how big the price gap is from Marlins world to the rest of MLB

formerly matt wMember since 2025
8 years ago
Reply to  mikejunt

MM’s offer was about 80% the list price of the tickets. According to this his offer was $205 per seat per game and according to this (linked by Sheryl) he had been paying $250 and the Marlins asked for $260.

Asking for discounts like this is pretty gutsy but if you figure it’s a way of delivering a public FU to the team it’s not hard to understand.

AnonMember since 2025
8 years ago
Reply to  mikejunt

Yeah, but the Dodgers are a major league baseball team. The Marlins, well. . . . . .

v2miccaMember since 2016
8 years ago
Reply to  Anon

And yet, the Marlins have won a World Series Championship more recently than the Dodgers. This planet is a strange one.

Tea_Wreck
8 years ago
Reply to  v2micca

They’ve won 2 since the last time the Dodgers did.

BipMember since 2016
8 years ago
Reply to  Tea_Wreck

They entered existence since the last time the Dodgers won.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
8 years ago
Reply to  v2micca

This is a good reminder that in real life, unlike the movies, the villains often get happy endings.

cowdiscipleMember since 2016
8 years ago

I honestly didn’t think there was any space for my opinion of the Marlins to go lower. They are entering unexplored depths.

Johnston
8 years ago
Reply to  cowdisciple

We all thought that the contempt for the fans had departed with Loria.

But, shocker: it wasn’t just Loria! It turns out that contempt for the fans is a Marlins tradition.

Who knew?

Doug LampertMember since 2016
8 years ago
Reply to  Johnston

Baseball is all about tradition after all.

TMcDMember since 2021
8 years ago

Was in attendance opening day. Even though the place was maybe half full, did not see a vendor on the third base side lower level during the first five innings. Concession stands understaffed: ONE person running a craft draft stand; long lines everywhere.

On top of the on-the-field issues, as an out-of-towner, it’s no wonder the fan base is disgruntled.

cowdiscipleMember since 2016
8 years ago

I do question the title of the article, though. ALMOST anyone? I think we should attempt to compile a list of people/entities that the Marlins wouldn’t sue, just to see if they can lower the bar even further.

Brian ReinhartMember since 2016
8 years ago
Reply to  cowdisciple

I can’t wait to see if they find a way to sue themselves.

http://loweringthebar.net/2011/04/the-people-who-sued-themselves.html

Johnston
8 years ago
Reply to  cowdisciple

It is actually possible to sue anything in existence in the United States of America, just as long as you are the government and you are bringing a unique type of legal action called an “asset forfeiture” action.

Thank God the Marlins do not have this authority.

pumpsie greenMember since 2022
8 years ago

How far do these shenanigans have to go before Jeter is no longer an automatic first-ballot Hall of Famer? Not saying we’re in Pete Rose territory quite yet, but … jeez. This is an awful way to run a business largely based on public perception.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
8 years ago
Reply to  pumpsie green

I can’t imagine he could do anything in the next couple of years. If he murdered a batboy* they’d probably just say it was his competitive juices flowing. Murdering the batboy would be a new standard for HoF entrants.

The point is, although his argument is pretty unassailable due to on-field achievements, his reputation is so golden in 2018 that by the time the election comes voters would ignore almost any counter-evidence even if it did exist.

….
*he won’t murder a batboy

tung_twista
8 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Not to mention most of these are from Loria era.

Johnston
8 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Are you sure?

RonnieDobbs
8 years ago
Reply to  pumpsie green

That is an interesting thought that never crossed my mind. I think it is a shame that anything after the playing career effects HOF credentials, but it does… I wonder if resignation is even an option. I figure that they hired Captain America as the front-man just to make the criminal activity (embezzlement and fraud is what I would call it) a bit easier to palette. I bet that Jeter has a contract that he can’t breach by doing anything about any of this including quitting.

Alex Trebek
8 years ago
Reply to  pumpsie green

I’m offended

vslykeMember since 2020
8 years ago

Great piece – some smarmy behavior from the Marlins.

One quick note, there is a typo here: “The Marlins made just $206 million in ticket revenue in 2016…” The link indicates that the Marlins received $206 in total revenue, not just from ticket sales.

Careless
8 years ago
Reply to  vslyke

What, you mean their mean ticket price wasn’t over $100? (looks like it would have to have been $120 for that to have happened)

v2miccaMember since 2016
8 years ago

So, I just don’t understand the new ownership group. I get that, due to financial obligations, they felt they needed to conduct an extensive tear-down and rebuild of the organization. Given the past relationship between ownership and the fan-base, and the fact that the team is likely 4 years away from putting a competitive product on the field, you would think that the new ownership group would attempt to extend some sort of olive branch to the fan-base. Settle the remaining lawsuits against season ticket holders out of court and quietly drop the pending lawsuits against bankrupt vendors. I can’t imagine either would net the organization substantial financial reward at this point.

And, as a side note, I still can’t believe that Miami Dade county fell for signing a deal that offered a payout based on net profits instead of gross. Every, actor/director/writer in Hollywood has known for past 6 decades that accounts can make the biggest blockbuster of all time look like it lost money.

Doug LampertMember since 2016
8 years ago
Reply to  v2micca

Not a lawyer, but: % of the gross wouldn’t have helped. Because what Luria did is deflate the gross by loading the team with debt. If Miami Dade had had a % of the gross, then Luria would have added another billion or so to the debt load, and sold the team for $1 and assumption of the debt.

Miami Dade would then need to sue and make the same case they are making now, that the assumed debt is not a team expense or debt, and that the debt assumed is part of the sale price rather than part of the team value.

v2miccaMember since 2016
8 years ago
Reply to  Doug Lampert

Jeff Loria does seem like the special kind of ass that would pull something like that. Like you said, Miami Dade likely would have had to pursue legal remediation regardless. But, in the case of a percentage of the gross, and given that this was a leveraged buy-out, I feel that Miami Dade’s position would have been significantly stronger than it currently is.

Spa City
8 years ago

One of the most important rules about running a business is – do not make it difficult or unpleasant for your customers to give you money.

I hope the Marlines lose these suits. But if they win, I hope they alienate far more potential customers and lose far more money than they collect. What they are doing is beyond distasteful.

Johnston
8 years ago
Reply to  Spa City

The entire franchise is beyond distasteful. Always has been.

Thomas
8 years ago

Good stuff, Sheryl!

KnucklebearMember since 2024
8 years ago

I’d love to read a book documenting the worst ownership groups in sports. In addition to the Marlins the Chargers and Knicks could be highlighted.

Ruki Motomiya
8 years ago
Reply to  Knucklebear

How do you bring up worst owners without Dan Snyder? The man sold years out of date peanuts at games to save money FFS.

peanutflushMember since 2016
8 years ago
Reply to  Ruki Motomiya

Dan Snyder was suing his own fans way before the Marlins did it. https://deadspin.com/5352121/the-washington-redskins-will-sue-your-grandmother-into-bankruptcy

AnonMember since 2025
8 years ago
Reply to  Knucklebear

Current ownership I’d vote for the Phoenix Suns, Sacramento Kings and the Cleveland Browns. Those teams suck, have no good players and have given no real inkling that they have a clue on how to build for the future. I’ll cut the Fish some slack since new ownership just bought the team but they’re off to a bad start for sure.

If you’re talking ever – that depends on how far back you want to go because there have been some pretty bad owners, but the guy who owned the Cleveland Cavaliers in the 70’s(Ted Stepien) would be a strong contender. Besides being pretty openly racist, the guy was self-destructive to the point that the NBA suspended his trading rights and told him he couldn’t trade any more players. He’s the reason the NBA has a rule preventing teams from trading their 1st round pick in consecutive years. INteresting guy at an interesting time in that league’s history.

willl
8 years ago
Reply to  Anon

I raise you Marge Schott, an all round horrible human being, Nazi-sympathizer, racist who dropped the N word more often than you could count (she especially loved calling her own players and staff it).

She was banned from baseball operations twice before MLB forced her out.

And this was the 1990s! Not some time in the past when racism was formally institutionalized in America.

francis_soyer
8 years ago
Reply to  Knucklebear

The Knicks are tricky because the Rangers are fairly well run ( or at least until this new GM took over ).

timprov
8 years ago
Reply to  francis_soyer

I think that’s the weirdest opinion I’ve ever read on Fangraphs. And I’ve produced some top contenders.

KnucklebearMember since 2024
8 years ago
Reply to  Knucklebear

There’s no shortage of awful owners. I just found out that the DeVos family owns the Orlando Magic!

Tea_Wreck
8 years ago
Reply to  Knucklebear

Since the Devos’ bought the Magic they’ve made the playoffs 14 times in 26 seasons, made the finals twice, and the conference finals an additional two times. They have a .500 winning percentage as a franchise despite 6 losing seasons in a row. Maybe you dislike the DeVos family for some reason, but as owners of a sports franchise their historical record is one most fanbases would probably like.

timprov
8 years ago
Reply to  Tea_Wreck

Wow. Are the Magic the most average team in sports?

AnonMember since 2025
8 years ago
Reply to  Tea_Wreck

The Magic have a franchise .479 winning percentage:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/

As for playoffs, more than half the teams make the playoffs. The 2 runs to the Finals is nice, but making the playoffs 14 of 26 years is not anything special in the NBA. It doesn’t suck, but it’s hardly enviable.

Tea_Wreck
8 years ago
Reply to  Anon

The Devos family has only owned the Magic since September of 1991. They missed the entire first season and who cares how much of the second. Prior to falling off a cliff in 2012 they would have been well above .500 both as a franchise and during this particular ownership.

LHPSU
8 years ago
Reply to  Knucklebear

I was going to bring up the Mets, but then the recent and present state of the Marlins make the Mets look like model owners.

Johnston
8 years ago
Reply to  Knucklebear

Don’t forget Frank McCourt. He’s not as bad as Loria. But he’s close.

some guy
8 years ago

Sheryl, is there opportunity for a successful suit for the city to sue the team for breaches of contract, acting in bad faith, etc. for these types of actions? Anyone can sue for anything, but I’m curious if there’s any angle for the city to force the team’s policy on these lawsuits.

Chris KMember since 2020
8 years ago
Reply to  some guy

The city probably wouldn’t have standing to sue.

some guy
8 years ago
Reply to  Chris K

Chris, why do you say that? They have contributed monies to the stadium, they have public works of art that they own, etc. I admit it’s a weak angle, but people thought tax evasion was a weak angle to put Al Capone behind bars. I’m just looking for options for the people of Miami.

mrenick1974Member since 2018
8 years ago

If Marlins park wasn’t only a year old I would swear this is all just some reality television remake of Major League. Seriously, I’m not sure how baseball is ever supposed to survive in Miami when, at least from the outside, it appears the goal of multiple ownership groups has been to alienate fans and business partners.

JoserMember since 2021
8 years ago
Reply to  mrenick1974

Loria definitely had the “Major League” plan in the beginning. Consider: to enable him to buy the Marlins, MLB gave Loria a loan of $38M (and took the Expos off his hands for $120M without a new buyer in place). The terms of the loan were such that MLB would forgive $15M of that $38M and charge no interest on the balance if the Marlins were unable to secure a new stadium in the first 5 years of Loria’s ownership. The Marlins immediately started doing everything they could to alienate not only their fans, but the city of Miami and Dade County. Which would be strange behavior for a team that wanted public funding of a new ballpark… until you remember the terms of the deal with MLB.

That was in 2002. After burning every bridge they could find — including team fire sales, firing their manager who won Manager of the Year for having the impertinence to achieve a winning record despite a “Major League”-style roster, and threatening to move to cities as far afield as San Antonio, Portland Oregon, and Las Vegas — suddenly the stadium financing talks with Miami and Dade that had “broken down” and “reached an impasse” were back, and a deal got done… in February, 2008. Conveniently, just a little more than 5 years after Loria bought the team. But I’m sure that was just a coincidence.

Loria is an evil genius, and I stand by both halves of that characterization. But it doesn’t really explain the behavior of the Marlins since they got the stadium deal. I do have a theory, though: institutions are institutions, and “institutional behavior” is a thing. Just like the team in “Major League” couldn’t help winning in spite of themselves, maybe the Marlins just can’t help being nasty to everyone and everything. The behavior may have had a purpose in the minds of Loria and David Samson, but by the time it filtered through the organization it had become a reflex, a part of their institutional DNA. Any bridge they saw, they burned. Any time they had an opportunity to be seen as the Good Guys, they took Door #2. Google at one time may have had the credo “Don’t Be Evil,” but the Marlins may be the most immediate example of a corporation that conformed to the opposite.

You’d think that would have dissipated now, with new ownership, but organizations don’t change overnight. Every person in the front office didn’t leave when Jeter showed up, and the legal team may be mostly intact. Even if it isn’t, organizational character has a strange Ship of Theseus quality: it persists even when all the original people (and even the people who replaced them) are gone. That seems especially true in baseball, where teams have the same problems through multiple housecleanings. The Mariners can’t develop position prospects; the Mets can’t keep players healthy; the Marlins can’t stop pissing everyone off.

rsvp_nj
8 years ago
Reply to  Joser

Of course Loria’s behavior continued after the stadium deal. Once he got it, all that was left in order to flip the franchise for a HUGE profit was to create the illusion of a healthy fan base supporting a winning team. Just like NFL teams build up hype and expectations when it’s time to sell seat licenses.(Jets in 2010, L.A. Rams as we speak) I doubt it’s possible to find a bigger sports owner criminal than Loria. He not only robbed a fan-base, he’s cleaned-out an entire county. This act will be very hard to top.

Johnston
8 years ago
Reply to  Joser

“The Mariners can’t develop position prospects; the Mets can’t keep players healthy; the Marlins can’t stop pissing everyone off.”

And the Dodgers can’t win the World Series.

francis_soyer
8 years ago

They should run for President

LHPSU
8 years ago
Reply to  francis_soyer

I’m not sure they won’t win, given the present state of the country.

Johnston
8 years ago
Reply to  francis_soyer

“They should run for President.”

They’d still be an improvement over both parties’ candidates of late.

BipMember since 2016
8 years ago

Sheryl, we’ll be glad to pitch in for your legal expenses when the Marlins sue you too.

Pwn Shop
8 years ago
Reply to  Bip

The foregoing statement should in no way be construed or interpreted by any reader as legally binding or as a representation of readers of the site. Any and all legal expenses shall be forwarded directly to and be sole responsibility of Bip.

BipMember since 2016
8 years ago
Reply to  Pwn Shop

hehehe

Johnston
8 years ago
Reply to  Bip

Bip, you have a mouse in your pocket?

BipMember since 2016
8 years ago
Reply to  Johnston

no

Dominikk85Member since 2020
8 years ago

I hate to say that but: contract the franchise and start a new one either in Miami or somewhere else. It is not the new owners fault that Loria was a crook but with the debt situation it will take at least 10-15 years to get back to zero if the revenue doesn’t go up significantly which is quite likely the way they are run.

Even if the current rebuild works they won’t be able to keep the core together as they still need to consolidate the debts for more than a decade (if the debt is really 400M and they can pay back 30-40 per year). This situation is not getting better anytime soon.

Paul22
8 years ago

206 million is total revenue and not ticket revenue. Ticket revenue probably less than 30 million

drewsylvaniaMember since 2019
8 years ago

This may be tinfoil-hattism, but here goes: As with the Cleveland Browns, I start wondering if the team is intentionally tanking itself in all ways. For what reason, I can’t fathom. But no one can be this incompetent, or this stupid, for so long….right?

sadtromboneMember since 2020
8 years ago
Reply to  drewsylvania

Yes. People can absolutely be this incompetent for that long.

ssf
8 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

The Marlins aren’t incompetent. They just don’t care

HappyFunBallMember since 2019
8 years ago
Reply to  drewsylvania

A lot depends on if you think the purpose of the Miami Marlins is to provide either (a) fan-friendly entertainment or (b) competative baseball. One would think that both of those should be “yes”. But as Loria, Dan Snyder, and their ilk have proven over and over again … “no” can quite clearly be an option.

Johnston
8 years ago
Reply to  HappyFunBall

The purpose of the Miami Marlins ownership chain seems to be threefold:

1. Act like total jerks

2. Make money

3. Piss everyone possible off

drewsylvaniaMember since 2019
8 years ago
Reply to  Johnston

Except this article suggests they’re trying to get worse at #2.

websoulsurfer
8 years ago

So you wrote an article about lawsuits Loria brought and to which Sherman and co have no party, but because they have not somehow dropped lawsuits that they are not legally the plaintiffs you have a problem with what they are doing?

Maybe you should stick to baseball, not legal matters.

Nobody has seen what Leavy was actually offering nor what conditions he was requiring. We do know that those seats he was sitting in called the Dex Diamond Club now require the purchase of a seat license and are listed at $440 per game each, so $200,000 may not cover the costs over 3 seasons.

The Other DougMember since 2016
8 years ago
Reply to  websoulsurfer

The plaintiff in these lawsuits is the Miami Marlins, not Jeffrey Loria. The new owners of the Marlins most certainly have the authority to instruct their lawyers to settle or withdraw any or all of these lawsuits. That they have not done so means they are actively pursuing the strategy initiated by Loria.

Maybe you should stick to surfing, not legal matters.

Of course Marlins Man was asking for a substantial discount; the point is that the cost of giving him that discount will likely be vastly outweighed by the cost (due to bad PR) of their arrogant, condescending, we-don’t-give-a-shit-about-you refusal of his offer. They could have said something along the lines of “While we appreciate your steadfast support of the Marlins, we cannot justify giving you a discount on your tickets, as this would be unfair to the rest of our season ticket holders who have paid full price for their seats. We hope you will join them in showing your support for the team by renewing your tickets at the regular price.” Instead they chose to denigrate his value to the organization and essentially indicate that they had no interest in retaining him as a customer. Not a typically recommended business strategy.

LHPSU
8 years ago
Reply to  The Other Doug

I wouldn’t take Marlins Man’s account of what the Marlins said to him at face value.

The Other DougMember since 2016
8 years ago
Reply to  LHPSU

Have the Marlins denied or contested it?

Gavin
8 years ago
Reply to  websoulsurfer

“Sheryl Ring is a consumer rights attorney focusing on complex litigation, including class actions, fraud cases, complex motion practice, and appeals.”

Yeah, she should totally stick to sports.

Johnston
8 years ago
Reply to  Gavin

“Yeah, she should totally stick to sports.”

Except for the Marlins, of course.

baseballlife
8 years ago

hey everyone found this amazing video that helped my son make varsity team for pitching. Thought I would share it. https://tinyurl.com/ydc8d5xg

Pirates HurdlesMember since 2024
8 years ago

As a full season Tix holder for PIT, I would be out immediately if I could only sell 24 of my 81 games. I mean seriously, who is going to 60 games a year? The Bucs are the polar opposite of MIA apparently. The online ticket inventory direct links to Stubhub, you can exchange any game up to 24 hours before the 1st pitch for additional tix to a game later in the season. Even if you miss a game, you can exchange unused tix for a future weekday game. Throw in a bunch of great season tix holder experiences and we have it pretty great.

Luy
8 years ago

I never thought someone who intentionally plans to scalp tickets would claim to be a victim. Oh, the times we live in!

BlueJaysBlackboard
8 years ago

Just read that now they’re claiming corporate citizenship in the British Virgin Islands so their dispute with the county will get handled under international law instead of US law. There is no depth to which they won’t stoop.

dustin0224
8 years ago

I thought this was just a sarcastic joke but my curiosity compelled me to look it up. Unreal that it’s real. Wonder when they will rename the team to the British Virgin Islands Marlins.

Johnston
8 years ago
Reply to  dustin0224

The British Virgin Islands is a very nice place, you should visit.

Johnston
8 years ago

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/article208398234.html for the story.

Will the Marlins ownership build their secret evil lair in an extinct island volcano? Will Jeter wear a Mao jacket and sit in a revolving chair while stroking a white blue-eyed Persian cat? (Keith Olbermann on Twitter, May 14, 2017: “Assuming there’s a reason the Yankees put Donald Pleasence as Blofeld from James Bond on Derek Jeter’s plaque.”)

Will it take James Bond to end this evil madness? Stay tuned…

goldenyankees
8 years ago

Hello. Good article.

You did make a vital mistake, though. You stated that the Miami Marlins ticketing revenue was $206 million for 2016. It seems that you confused the Marlins’ ticketing sales for the teams total revenue. The Marlins ticket sale total for 2016 (gate receipts) was $34 million.

$206 million in ticket sales would’ve put the Marlins as the most expensive ticket in the MLB, at over $120 on average per ticket sold. They could only dream of getting such numbers…

Llewdor
8 years ago

How would they know you sold 30% of your tickets? Are they checking ID at the gate? What a weird thing to do.

BillMember since 2017
8 years ago

Great piece, Sheryl. Thanks.

The experiment to which to refer in your closing statement, I think, has been conducted previously. In Montreal. Loria must have had incriminating photos of Bud Selig, the way I figure it.

Johnston
8 years ago

From WaPo: “The Marlins did not return a message requesting comment. The British Virgin Islands entity, Abernue Ltd., is a part owner of Marlins Holdings LLC, which owns Marlins Funding, which owns Marlins Teamco, the company that owns the team, the Herald reported, noting that the lawsuit did not identify the origins of those companies.”

Nothing about a secret evil lair in an extinct Caribbean volcano or blue-eyed white Persian cats, though.

It is interesting that none of the corporations are obviously named SPECTRE and that the team ownership is four levels corporately removed from the actual team, though. That level of removal would seem to be really unnecessary, of course, unless you actually ARE sitting in chair wearing a Mao jacket and stroking a blue-eyed white Persian cat in an extinct Caribbean volcano.

MoonrakerMember since 2025
8 years ago

Does anyone else wonder if the Marlins baseball team is just a front group for a shadowy organization whose sole mission is to piss off the people of Miami?