The Reds Actually Chose Kevin Gregg Over Aroldis Chapman
It’s far too early to put serious weight on just about anything (save for injuries, or growing concern about those injuries) you see in the first 36 hours of a baseball season. It’s far too early to do much of anything other than say, “hey, baseball’s back, isn’t that great?” I mean, Buddy Carlyle and Chris Hatcher are on pace for 162 saves. The Red Sox are on pace for 810 homers. Probably not going to happen. Could happen. Won’t happen.
So we know not to look at the in-season numbers for at least a few weeks, lest we forget what Charlie Blackmon and Dee Gordon did last April as compared to the rest of the season. But it’s not like we’re simply not going to talk about baseball until then, and it’s not like there aren’t takeaways we can make from what we’re seeing right now. Like this one, for example: Seemingly years after most smart baseball team gave up on the save rule, why are we still seeing managers risk victories in service of it?
This is going to be about the Reds, Bryan Price, Aroldis Chapman, and Kevin Gregg, but know that this could apply to a dozen other teams. It’s just that so far, the other teams didn’t make moves that led to this enormous WPA dip like we saw in Monday’s eighth inning:
Source: FanGraphs
“But the Reds won the game,” you might protest. Indeed they did, but A) that doesn’t make this right, and B) that’s entirely thanks to Johnny Cueto and Todd Frazier, isn’t it?
For seven shutout innings, Cueto was just outstanding, striking out 10 Pirates and showing the form that is going to make him an incredibly sought-after piece when the Reds inevitably sell right after the All-Star Game. With Cueto up to 100 pitches in his first start of the year, and the Reds up 2-0, Price decided to call for the bullpen in the eighth with likely pinch-hitter Andrew Lambo (lefty), Josh Harrison, Gregory Polanco (lefty), and Andrew McCutchen (awesome) due up.
So you’ve got a lot of options there, what with it being the first game of the season and with a scheduled off-day on Tuesday. There’s no concern about rest or work, there’s just “who is the best man for the job.” That means that you look at the bullpen card to see Aroldis Chapman, Kevin Gregg, Manny Parra, Burke Badenhop, J.J. Hoover, Jumbo Diaz and Tony Cingrani — the Opening Day bullpen — and you can do whatever you want.
I know that you already know what happened, but we’re going to play this out anyway. Think about all the things you can do. You can play with lefties for the inning, or use both around a righty for Harrison, knowing you have Chapman for the ninth. You can just bring in the flame-throwing Diaz and see what happens. You can see what the groundball specialist Badenhop can do, perhaps in tandem with a lefty. Cingrani could be pretty good as a reliever, you know. Might as well try him out.
Or, just keep it simple. “I have one of the most dominating pitchers baseball has seen in years, just sitting there. He isn’t tired, because it’s Opening Day. He’s not pitching tomorrow, because there’s no game tomorrow, and it’s not even like we have to travel. Maybe let’s just use him for two innings.” It’s the kind of thing that just about never happens, because “save situations,” I guess, and again this isn’t so much specific to Price as it is endemic across the game, but it’s willfully keeping the best pitcher out of the biggest spots. For as far as we’ve come in understanding baseball, it’s the kind of thing that’s just infuriating.
It’s not like Chapman’s never done this before, either. 25 times, he’s pitched more than one inning. In 36.2 innings, he struck out 63 and allowed one earned run. I haven’t looked at all of his appearances after that to see if it affected him at all, but again, the Reds don’t play on Tuesday — and for a team that needs almost literally everything to go right to contend, you need to get the most of your stars as you can.
Instead, the call went to Kevin Gregg, probably in the conversation as the posterboy for “mediocre reliever most overrated thanks to saves.” It’s true that Gregg has 177 saves, including 33 as recently as 2013 for the Cubs. It’s also true that his career ERA and FIP are both north of four, that he was released by both the Orioles (2012) and Dodgers (2013), that he gave up 10 runs in nine innings in his age-36 season for Miami last year, and that he didn’t even land with the Reds on a minor league deal until Feb. 7.
We have him as being a replacement-level reliever for the last seven years in a row. And, well, he has been: Cincinnati is his seventh different stop since leaving Anaheim following the 2006 season. All of our projection systems see him with ERA and FIP north of four; there’s really nothing, not in 2014 performance or 2010-14 performance or 2015 projections or age or anything at all that makes him more appealing than Sam LeCure, himself a flawed reliever, sent down to Triple-A last week — except for saves, that lovely destructive junk stat that has been ruining bullpen decisions for years. There’s little to recommend Gregg being the proud owner of a big league roster spot at this point, really, but generally it’s not worth losing sleep over fungible back-end veterans unlikely to last the year.
Of course, those guys usually end up with the Jamey Wright treatment, mopping up innings or serving as a long man. They don’t show up in the eighth inning in huge spots on Opening Day, particularly not when Chapman exists. Rather than use one of the best relievers of a generation against the top of a competitor’s lineup in a huge spot, the call went to an aging, soft-tossing journeyman. You can’t be surprised that it got real ugly, real quickly, and you already know that McCutchen hit a game-tying homer.
It’d be one thing if it was just a case of one of baseball’s best players turning around a good pitch, because hey, even Felix Hernandez gives up homers to Mike Trout. That wasn’t this. This was a mess from the start, as Gregg never topped 91 mph, and got just two swing-and-misses on 17 pitches:
- Lambo flies out to deep center on 13 pitches, two of which came within feet of being homers.
- Harrison hits a sharp line drive to Byrd for a single.
- Polanco slashes a line drive over Byrd’s head, saved only by an outstanding defensive play.
- McCutchen crushes a meatball to dead center to tie the game.
And I do mean a meatball:
That’s 90 mph, right down the middle, to one of the five or so best players in the game.
Even the local beat writers could do little more than muster “beats me”:
don’t know RT @gonzarro: @reds @ctrent Remind me again why Aroldis Chapman can’t pitch more than one inning?
— C. Trent Rosecrans (@ctrent) April 6, 2015
RT @mjohnsonky: @johnfayman Why not Chapman for 2 innings?//Don’t know. With off day tomorrow, thought they might do that.
— John Fay (@johnfayman) April 6, 2015
“You could feel it coming,” said the Pirates’ broadcast. “I mean, rocket after rocket in this inning,” chimed in the Cincinnati team, after first noting even before Polanco’s appearance that “this is where a manager makes his money.” That this ended poorly wasn’t a surprise. That Frazier saved the Reds doesn’t make it okay. Just as we’ve seen for years, big league teams are doing their best to shoot themselves in the foot in the late innings by saving their best pitchers for the wrong spots.
Basically, it comes down to this: I’m not entirely sure what McCutchen was saying in the dugout here after his home run…
… but I’m just going to assume it was something like, “damn, I’m glad I got to face Kevin Gregg rather than Aroldis Chapman.” Who wouldn’t?
Mike Petriello used to write here, and now he does not. Find him at @mike_petriello or MLB.com.


great piece….
Thanks!
Reds thought bubble:
These guys (the Pirates) sure do suck. They just don’t have it tonight. They sure do strike out a lot. Who we got in here, Chapman, nah (rummaging, rummaging) Gregg, sure… this is easy.
Kevin Gregg doesn’t believe in DIPS
Lambo 101.4 MPH
Harrison 96.1
Ploanco 99.4
McCutchen 104.9
Don’t know what it is with you guys, but you always discount the will to win. Kevin Gregg is a proven closer, which is proof of his will to win.
Using him in clutch situations is a no-brainer. And since you all love stats here so much, here’s another one for you: McCutcheon, 1 of the best hitters in the game, is the ONLY guy this season to get any RBI off of Gregg this season.
Case Closed.
Couldn’t have said it better myself Dusty.
And did they even notice the “W” in that first graph? Right where they put Gregg in the game. Now if that isn’t proof of the will to win, I don’t know what is.
Figured you’d be writing about Porcello this morning. After all, you called it.
I’m pretty happy about that. Craig Edwards will be on that later, probably best to have a fresh viewpoint.
It’s the kind of thing that just about never happens, because “save situations,” I guess
But that’s not even the case here: Chapman would absolutely have been eligible for a save.
I will note that the Pirates had PH options other than Lambo, so if Chapman comes in he only faces one lefty, but who are we kidding – Chapman vs. righty >> most LOOGYs vs. lefty.
I think by “save situations,” Mike means the pure ‘1-inning, up by 3 or less’ situation that has become the convention. Like how the Braves didn’t bring in Kimbrel in the 8th in the ’13 playoffs.
Without the hair, I still refuse to believe that’s McCutchen.
So much for the whole “samson” concern.
Reds didn’t recognize him either.
But Kevin Gregg is soooo elite.. (end sarcasm)
From now on he should always be referred to as “McCutchen (awesome)”.
Andrew “Awesome” McCutchen?
Maybe Chapman isn’t loose enough yet to go 2 innings?
It’s a shame they didn’t have spring training for like 50 days to get him ready!
Except they actually used Chapman for two innings multiple times in the spring. So really it boils down to Pryce made a godawful and not at all excusable decision.
They wore him out in spring training?
I think Cutch was saying: “Damn, I’ll cut my hair even shorter if it means the Reds keep bringing Gregg out to pitch to me in late inning save/hold situations!”
To me, it’s difficult to blame Price for not bring in Chapman for two innings first game of the year. You don’t want to start off the season on the path of overworking your prize horse. However, there are two other choices. You could bring him in the eight, with the top of the order up (or at least after the first hit), or you could go with just about any other combination of relievers.
You could also just go with any other reliever, but that would only be marginally smarter.
“You could also just go with any other reliever, but that would only be marginally smarter”
pretty much the point of the article. Chapman is the obvious pitcher to go with, but equally obvious should have been “anyone but Kevin Gregg” especially after the first 2 batters went and it was apparent Gregg had nothing.
If only someone were paid healthy salaries to make marginally smart decisions, which can really add up over the course of a season!
Oh, wait…
He brought back Cueto after a rain delay, talk about overworking your horse…
Or, if you dont want Chapman to go two innings, simply use him in the 8th, and use a lesser reliever in the 9th.
Nothing wrong with that. You get the benefit of keeping Chapman to only one inning, and you get him into the highest leverage situation.
That’s what I said. I Think I was a little unclear. a much better decision would be either chapman or playing match ups. But if you’re going with a single reliever, there are better options than Gregg, not just Chapman, but the others by themselves aren’t that great, which is why I said marginally better, where the first two choices would be much better.
If I am the GM, I call Price into the office and tell him that if he ever does anything that stupid again I will fire him the next day. Then I’d cut Gregg just so he wouldn’t have any temptation. Think anything like that ever happens?
The GM should just cut Gregg today.
The Mets did that last year, reliever totally blew a lead v the Pirates, was released 10 minutes after the game.
The GM presumably made the choice to sign Gregg and have him on the team, so he isn’t completely innocent here.
Well, so did the Mets’ GM. They are allowed to change their mind
Walt Jocketty is the one who chose to purchase his contract, a NRI contract that carried with it a 1.5M$ salary if purchased. Jocketty is just as much too blame as Price.
I guess you don’t really know how contracts work.
I also guess that you think one single game should be time enough to tell if a pitcher might have value for a team.
While this was positioned as Gregg vs. Chapman, let’s not be so tough. It’s really Gregg vs. ANYBODY ELSE IN THE REDS BULLPEN. Price finally wises up an bats Votto 2nd and then does this. Maddening.
Especially after the Blue Jays decimated the meatballs that Gregg had thrown them just two days earlier, this was easily the worst decision of Opening Day.
This is second, my decision to watch the Phillies was worse.
I was flying all day yesterday, coming home from visiting family for the holidays. So I missed most of Opening Day because I planned to travel during a holiday weekend.
YOUR decision is second, while the Price/Gregg move is third.
I got to go to the that Blue Jays game and Gregg’s stiff ineffectiveness was startling to the point that I felt bad…would have thought it more likely he got released than picked first out of the bullpen!
The worst decision of Opening Day is when Tony Watson, in a tie game situation, allowed Billy Hamilton to get into his head, resulting in the meatball he served up to Todd Frazier.
These are human beings. Players and managers are not statistics. Until stat heads are making the on-the-field moves themselves, most of you will continue to be infuriated by human moves.
and human beings get a distribution of results, which we can fairly accurately predict from their past behavior.
I’ll give you an over/under of 5.00 for Gregg’s ERA this year. How about May 1 for a release date?
The very best relievers hold the lead 95% of the time. Sometimes even they fail. The worst relievers hold the lead around 75-80% of the time. If you run them out there often enough, even Kevin Gregg can get 30 saves in 40 opportunities.
Gregg blew the save on Monday, but even if he gets holds in his next 3 or 4 games, he’s still performing on the level of the worst relievers.
Even the best closers rarely hit 95%. Some elite closers of recent years:
Mariano Rivera (career save rate .891, high of .975), Craig Kimbrel (.907, .933), Steve Cishek (.901, .944), Aroldis Chapman (.884, .947), Jonathan Papelbon (.881, .927),
Kevin Gregg (.805, .889) is more like Fernando Rodney (.815, .974) or Heath Bell (.804, .940).
If Kevin Gregg drowned his sorrows after yesterday’s ineffective performance by eating sixteen canned hams and washing them down with eleven quarts of Yoo-Hoo…
THEN he would be like Heath Bell.
As Gregg pitched the 8th in a setup role, you can add holds to the numerator and denominator. A blown hold is credited as a blown save.
(Holds + saves) / (holds + saves + blown saves)
Adding in holds doesn’t matter much. It moves Gregg up to .815, Rivera to .895, etc. Bumps everybody up slightly, depending on how long they were used as set up men.
It doesn’t take a stat head to know that Kevin Gregg is not MLB quality, I was shocked when I saw him pitching. Not shocked when he gave up the dinger. Big Papi needs to beat his ass
The above comment was sponsored by Liberty Mutual.
please cue up the Human League song.
Thanks for helping me relive that, Mike. Cathartic!
I will say that from a narrative aspect it set up the Frazier home run and Chapman’s dominant save nicely. Very self-sacrificing of Mr. Gregg…
I’m willing to overlook the fact that Price did not want to use Chapman for 2 innings on Opening Day, assuming Chapman never threw more than an inning in spring training. He probably should have at least prepared to use Chapman for McCutchen, especially if he represented the tieing run (which ended up happening), given that it’s Opening Day at home and the Reds aren’t likely to play a more meaningful game than that all year. What I can’t get over is the fact that Price must have decided that Kevin Gregg was his next best option after Chapman. Gregg is arguably the worst man in that bullpen. The only thing that kept him in the big leagues was the fact that he could throw a baseball pretty fast relative to the competition. He doesn’t do that anymore and hasn’t for awhile. The only logical conclusion is what Mike was speaking to which is that Gregg does have over 100 career saves. Considering baseball managers aren’t asked to do a whole lot in-game versus some of their peers in other spots, it’s pretty bizarre someone could mess up a decision that bad and be considered qualified to hold the position.
Chapman repeatedly threw more than one inning in spring training. He was throwing multiple innings every few days.
I’m a Reds fan and would like for somebody to PLEASE give this article to Bryan Price. He’s not the only manager to run the bullpen this way, but it’s plain lunacy. Even if you don’t start the eighth with Chapman, how is he not in there to face McCutchen?
Went to mlb.com reds site, and forwarded the URL to the team, asking that it be sent on to Price
Chapman threw multiple innings several times during spring training.
A wise man once said that if you make a strategic move in sports, and the other team collectively lets out a sigh of relief (“Thank God!”), then you might not have made the right move.
getting to the point i know who wrote it by reading the first sentence.
Good stuff, saves are getting old. When are analytics going to reach into the backend of the bullpen.
Maybe Price didn’t recognize McCutchen without the hair.
“Hmm..this guy looks familiar, but I can’t place him. Wonder what happened to that MVP fellow.”
I wonder if Price was in his way playing matchups. Out of all the players who’ve faced Chapman at least 8 PAs, three of them have OPSes of at least .730. They batted fourth, fifth, and sixth that inning.
The best part is that Chapman WAS used to protect a 3 run lead in the 9th, facing the Pirates’ 6-7-8 hitters.
Exactly. Even if you don’t want him to throw 2 innings, I’d rather have my closer shut down the top of the order in the 8th than wait to see if the lead gets to him. At least bring him in to face Cutch there.
Day two and I am already apoplectic with the use of bullpens (I guess what makes it worse is in your opening game you absolutely have a clean slate to work with). The one that was equally as maddening as this one, if not more so, was Bud Black’s blowing of the game in LA. With Shields going 6 he only had one inning to figure out assuming he had Benoit and Kimbrel
stringently pencilled in for the 8th and 9th and with two outs comically let Gonzalez face a righty. Then even more baffling, he lets Kelley blow the game while Benoit and Kimbrel look on in the 8th. Guess tied games arn’t as important as games where you have a three run lead.
Add Familia being taken out after the 8th for the Mets. Mejia couldn’t get loose in the pen (now reported as elbow inflammation and a DL trip); so, they put Buddy Carlyle in for the save. Didn’t cost the Mets, but I’d rather have my elite relief pitcher go after the Nats 3-4-5.
I wonder if being a manager on a bad softball team is like being a manager on a bad baseball team, where you want everyone to give everyone a chance!
… And Jose Iglesias projects 300 stolen bases
I got the blue jays going 162-0