The Thing All the Trades Had in Common

The non-waiver trade period wrapped up yesterday with teams pushing 18 trades through on a frantic final day. The Giants and Dodgers both paid high prices to load up for a dogfight in the NL West, the Rangers filled some big holes to prepare for a hopeful postseason run, the Indians pushed in with a big bullpen upgrade, and the Mets put the finishing touch on their defense-doesn’t-matter roster in an attempt to slug their way back to the playoffs.

But while the types of veteran upgrades acquired by contenders were quite different, there was one central theme that seemed to run through almost every trade; buyers giving up on previously well-regarded players currently in the midst of devaluing themselves. Or, if you want to look at it from a more optimistic viewpoint, sellers targeting buy-low young talents who might have a chance to prove that their current struggles are just a blip on the radar.

This theme even showed itself in the two biggest deals yesterday.

To give up Jonathan Lucroy and Jeremy Jeffress, the Brewers landed center fielder Lewis Brinson, a high-end athlete currently running just a 99 wRC+ in Double-A, a step back from what he did at the same level last year. After rating him as the #16 overall prospect heading into 2016, Baseball America put Brinson at #30 on their midseason update, even though many of the guys ahead of him in March had graduated from the list. There’s certainly nothing wrong with still being ranked as a top-30 prospect, but Brinson’s stock is down some from where it was a few months ago.

In the other big deal, the Giants landed Matt Moore from the Rays to upgrade their rotation, but to get a controllable young lefty, the team surrendered Matt Duffy along with a pair of low-level prospects. Duffy was a +5 WAR player for the Giants as their starting third baseman last year, but hadn’t managed to repeat last year’s success this year before an achilles problem forced him to the DL, and he got displaced by new-acquisition Eduardo Nunez before he could make his return. As I wrote yesterday, Duffy looks like a good buy-low guy for the Rays, as there was almost no chance the Giants would have flipped him for Moore — and given up two other prospects to sweeten the deal — over the winter.

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In most every other deal completed yesterday, we can find this same trend; organizations spent most of the day giving up prospects who were well thought of previously but might be trending the wrong way.

Dillon Tate, who the Rangers took with the #4 pick in last year’s draft, was shipped to New York for a half-season rental of Carlos Beltran. Phil Bickford was shipped to Milwaukee as one of two players traded for reliever Will Smith because the reports on him up-and-down. Dilson Herrera was shipped to the Reds for Jay Bruce even though Neil Walker will be a free agent at years end; the Mets were apparently not convinced that Herrera would be able to take over at second base next year, given his underwhelming performance in Triple-A. Alex Meyer went from the Twins to the Angels in a swap of back-end starters, continuing his long fall from peak value several years ago, when he was seen as seen as one of the game’s best pitching prospects.

And then there’s that Blue Jays-Pirates trade, a deal in which every player in the swap represented one of the two teams trying to buy low on the other team’s struggling talent. Francisco Liriano was one of the best starting pitchers in the National League the last few years, but the wheels have fallen off the bus this season, and the Pirates were happy to dump the remainder of his contract on the Blue Jays rather than hope he figures out how to fix his command again.

In the Pirates end of the deal, they got former-top-prospect-turned-Triple-A-depth-arm Drew Hutchison, the kind of classic arm Ray Searage and his staff have had success turning around once they get to Pittsburgh. But to get Hutchison and dump Liriano’s salary, the Pirates had to throw in two prospects who were considered to be among the organization’s most promising talents heading into the season, Reese Mcguire and Harold Ramirez. The Pirates agreed to give both up because they just weren’t really hitting this season; both in Double-A, McGuire had a 94 wRC+ and Ramirez had a 112 wRC+ based on a .363 BABIP, but neither was showing any semblance of power.

And the trend even wound into deals that gone done at the trade deadline. To land Andrew Cashner, the Marlins gave up their 2015 first round pick Josh Naylor, who didn’t help his value at all by struggling to hit in A-ball or by stabbing a teammate earlier in the year.

For all the talk of deals built around Yoan Moncada or Julio Urias, the results of the July trading season suggest that the young players teams are actually willing to trade away this time of year are guys who they feel are losing value, and they want to get off the ride before it crashes into a tree. And there’s probably a decent amount of wisdom in that approach.

A couple of months ago, I noted that recent “buy low” trades for aging star players hadn’t worked out very well for the acquiring teams. And as Matt Swartz noted back in 2012, teams have historically gotten poor return on investments when signing free agents from other teams, relative to the return they’ve gotten when they’ve re-signed their own players; this suggests that perhaps there’s enough information asymmetry in player evaluations that we should downgrade our expectations for players who are allowed to leave by another organization.

While we don’t want to just appeal to authority on every transaction, it’s also true that the teams giving up these young players know more about them than anyone else, and while they are still susceptible to recency bias, the fact that these teams are willing to sell while their value is diminished is perhaps telling. It doesn’t mean these guys can’t succeed, but their odds of making it are likely even less than we would estimate given public information, given that the organization with the most information wasn’t willing to wait around for their value to rebound.

In almost every situation where they had a choice, the teams giving up young talent chose to keep players whose stock is on the rise and sell players for less than what they would have been valued at recently, eschewing the buy-low/sell-high philosophy that is often espoused as the way to build value. This was more like selling-medium, attempting to salvage some kind of value from an asset in perceived decline before it can go to zero.

Some of these guys will rebound, of course. I’m betting on Duffy bouncing back, and I think the Rays are going to be quite pleased with that trade long-term. Given that Brinson’s core skills still appear to be in tact, I wouldn’t be surprised if he still turned into a very nice player for the Brewers. But most of these guys? I’m betting they go the way of Touki Toussaint, and a year from now, we see that the buyer ended up extracting some value from a prospect while they still had a little shine left. I know Pirates fans are freaking out this morning, but McGuire and Ramirez don’t look like pieces worth freaking out about.

This was the week of selling off disappointing prospects. Perhaps this is what we get when there aren’t any David Prices or Johnny Cuetos on the market. But at a time when teams are placing higher and higher values on young talent, it’s probably worth noting that teams were willing to give up on this particular type of prospect. Given what we thought about the players six months ago, these prices might seem high, but for most of them, the trajectory of their stock has been a straight line down, and we might end up realizing not too long from now that these teams got out while the getting was still at least kind of good.





Dave is the Managing Editor of FanGraphs.

19 Comments
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HarryLives
10 years ago

Touki Toussaint’s going to bean you, Dave, and he’s so wild you won’t know whether it was intentional. He throws 95, so it’s going to hurt.

JoserMember since 2021
10 years ago
Reply to  HarryLives

“Throw it at the mascot”

Stu
10 years ago

The way of Touki Toussaint? Poor choice, as he was thought raw when acquired and has continued to be raw — but shown signs of improvement.

paulmathewson5
10 years ago

The Touki Toussaint example was an odd one to use. Not saying he will certainly pan out, but I would say his perceived value is higher now than it was at the time of the trade.

Member since 2016
10 years ago
Reply to  paulmathewson5

How so? He hasn’t pitched well since the trade.

paulmathewson5
10 years ago
Reply to 

Maybe I’m wrong. The stats don’t paint the best picture, although he does have a 3.24 ERA and 70 SO in 61 IP since May as a 19/20-yr old, and using stats to evaluate minor league prospects – especially young, raw pitchers – is a fool’s errand.

Taking a more subjective viewpoint though when talking perceived value – using prospect rankings – he came in at 95 on BA’s midseason Top 100. I know KLaw is a fan, and I wouldn’t be surprised to see him land in that same vicinity of the back portion of his Top 100 this offseason. I don’t think Eric is quite as bullish (quote from 7/4 chat re: Touki’s curve: “It has plus-plus potential. I think just a FB/CRV is probably too little to negotiate a big league lineup multiple times, but don’t necessarily think a change up needs to be part of the repertoire. As long as you find ways to get guys out with what you have. For Touki, that probably means developing better command than I’m comfortable projecting.”

But at the time of the trade, Dave did a write-up that featured this: “Kiley McDaniel rated him as a 50 FV prospect, placing him 116th on his pre-season Top 200 list, noting that he had plenty of upside based on raw stuff but was not particularly polished and was a long way from the big leagues. In the 58 innings he’s thrown as a professional, he’s lived up to that billing, as his good stuff has not led to good results, but in talking with Kiley, he doesn’t believe the industry consensus has changed on Toussaint in the 12 months. He’d still grade him a 50 FV, said he’s “easily in the Top 200”.

So ~112ish last March, “easily top 200” last June when the trade was made, and ~95ish now. Not an exact science by any means, and also not saying he’s had some huge increase in value, but still to me an odd example to use for a prospect whose value has continued to diminish since he was moved. I’d still say his perceived value has seen a slight uptick, if not at least held steady.

JoserMember since 2021
10 years ago

There were just so many of these types of trades this year that one of them is bound to be regarded ruefully years from now by fans of the trading team. But I wouldn’t want to bet on which one.

Mahoney
10 years ago
Reply to  Joser

Who would have thought in 2008 that (1) the A’s would have won the buy-low sweepstakes in snagging Josh Donaldson and (2) after he became a star, they would try to flip him for a package built a buy-low candidate (Lawrie) but ended up actually being the ones that SOLD low?

FrancoLuvHateMets
10 years ago
Reply to  Joser

My bet is someone in that Giants/Rays trade looks like a real big idiot. I’m just not confident on who right now.

Mahoney
10 years ago

I’d have to give the “buy-high” award to the Mets for getting Bruce right as he’s soared to the top of the NL in RBI.

Dooduh
10 years ago
Reply to  Mahoney

But they didn’t have to overpay to get him.

Mahoney
10 years ago
Reply to  Dooduh

I wasn’t considering the cost, just the timing.

Although I think Dilson Herrera ends up being the Reds everyday 2B before long. And is a good, solid regular for them. But his value to the Mets was zilch, so it wasn’t a bad price to pay for Bruce, especially in lieu of Nimmo, who might end up being needed in CF.

Paul G.Member since 2016
10 years ago

With that in mind, do the Yankees really have one of the best farm systems now? That seems to be the narrative.

diehardmetsMember since 2022
10 years ago
Reply to  Paul G.

It has to be up there. Judge, Frazier, Torres, and Mateo are all top 50 prospects. Sheffield and Sanchez rank somewhere in the back half of the top 100. McKinney and Tate, though they both have seen their stock drop drastically, are still interesting at the very least. Kaprielian is kicking around as well if his arm ever gets right.

Dominikk85Member since 2020
10 years ago
Reply to  diehardmets

Yankees farm is really good. Milwaukee also must be up there now.

Greg
10 years ago
Reply to  Paul G.

As a cubs fan I was a little disappointed we recieved Chapman for

55 FV SS, 40 FV OF, 35 FV OF, Adam Warren

And then saw Miller go for a similar, albeit better package

55 FV OF, 50 FV LHP, 35 RHP, 35 FV RHP

soddingjunkmailMember since 2016
10 years ago
Reply to  Greg

Considering the extra 2 years of control, the Indians got a *much* better deal.

jdbolickMember since 2016
10 years ago

They did, but the Yankees wanted Schwarber for Miller and I can understand both sides not budging from their positions on that.

fjtorres
10 years ago
Reply to  Paul G.

There’s two ways to build a good farm system: a few high ceiling guys or a deep supply of high floor guys. The very best systems have both. The Yankees seem to qualify. Look at the haul on Miller: a likely everyday corner OF, a likely mid rotation starter and two likely middle relievers ready to roll in 2017. Maybe none of the four gets to be a superstar but the odds are good all four get to suit up at Yankee stadium and fairly soon.

As Doc Smith used to say: “not everybody can be first violin; somebody has to blow air through the tuba.”

A good team needs contributions from the entire 40 man roster.