The White Sox and Beating Projections

There are a lot of projection systems floating around the nerdy baseball universe. Here on FanGraphs, we host a lot of them, including ZIPS, Steamer, Oliver, Marcel, and the Fans projections, and then there’s other systems like CAIRO and PECOTA that are hosted elsewhere. Of all the baseball projection systems, PECOTA is probably the most famous because it was created by Nate Silver, and Nate Silver is now pretty famous for his post-baseball career. So, when PECOTA releases their annual projections, mainstream writers pay attention. And Chicago writers, particularly, like to talk about PECOTA’s projections, mainly to remind everyone how wrong they’ve been about the White Sox.

For instance, here’s a piece by a local radio anchor that trots out all the usual ad hominem attacks about geeks and their numbers. And here’s another one of this year’s entries, which just gives up on factual information completely:

What is it about the White Sox’s rosters and farm system that Baseball Prospectus doesn’t like?

To answer that question, I decided to do research on who writes these inaccuracies year after year. What I found shocked and disturbed me.

It’s Nate Silver.

My whole world of reality collapsed at that moment.

How could it be the guy I religiously read for pinpoint accuracy in politics? How could it be that Silver is an accuracy genius in politics, but yet when it comes to the White Sox he transforms into the accuracy of a Republican pollster?

After composing myself, I discovered a possible reason. Silver lived in Chicago for many years near Wrigleyville and is rumored to be a Cubs fan.

Maybe being a Cubs fan is a weighted bias even Silver’s methodology can’t overcome.

I’m not here to defend PECOTA — BP can do that if they’d like — but I will just insert some facts into the discussion. Like, for instance, that Silver grew up in Michigan as a Tigers fan, not a Cubs fan. Or, that Silver hasn’t been in charge of the system since 2009, and the code has been essentially rewritten since he left. And, of course, it would be remarkably silly for any forecaster to create a system that intentionally downgrades the projections of a specific franchise, since that would simply make the system less accurate and hurt his own credibility. The idea that PECOTA has some kind of anti-White Sox bias because Silver went to the University of Chicago and attended some Cubs games is worthy of the tin foil hat brigade.

That said, I do think it’s interesting that the White Sox have regularly outperformed PECOTA’s expectations, and I think it’s worth actually investigating, as opposed to what Michael Tomaso did. So, let’s investigate the White Sox overall performance since 2005.

Thanks to this helpful link from Mark Gonzalez of the Chicago Tribune, we can see PECOTA’s projections for the White Sox each of the last eight years next to their actual record for that season.

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Year Projected Wins Projected Losses Actual Wins Actual Losses Difference in Wins
2005 80 82 99 63 19
2006 82 80 90 72 8
2007 73 89 72 90 -1
2008 77 85 89 74 12
2009 73 89 79 83 6
2010 79 83 88 74 9
2011 82 80 79 83 -3
2012 78 84 85 77 7
Total 624 672 681 616 57

The White Sox have won 52.5% of their games over the last eight years, while PECOTA projected them to win 48.1% of those games during the same time period. On a per season basis, that works out to a seven win difference, and beating your projections by seven wins per year for an eight stretch is pretty impressive. The question is why they’ve been able to do that.

One possible option is that PECOTA’s just not a great forecasting tool, of course, but that probably shouldn’t be the conclusion that we default to simply based on one franchise’s results. It’s also possible that the White Sox have just done something over the last eight years that is hard to forecast ahead of time, and these are things we can actually test and potentially identify.

So, let’s just start with the White Sox win-loss record, and whether or not it matches up with their runs scored and runs allowed. We’ve already noted that the Pale Hose have won at a .525 clip over the last eight years, but has their run differential backed up that kind of record?

During their last 1,297 games, they’ve scored 5,991 runs and allowed 5,825 runs, or an average of 4.62 RPG and 4.49 RAPG. Just from the fact that they’ve outscored their opponents, we can already see that they’ve outplayed their projections, and the entire difference hasn’t been due to the timing of when those runs scored. However, it’s still worth noting the magnitude of the difference, so we can put those RS/RA totals into the pythagenpat calculation and see that those RS/RA totals correspond to a .513 expected winning percentage.

The gap between playing at a .513 and .525 level isn’t enormous, but over nearly 1,300 games, it adds up to an extra 16 wins. In other words, of the seven win per year difference that we started with, two of those (29%) can simply be explained by the timing of run scoring. There’s simply no real way for any forecasting tool — mathematical or gut-based — to know in advance the distribution of how runs are going to be divvied up throughout the year, but that distribution can have a big impact on a team’s final record.

Even if there was an absolutely perfect forecast for the White Sox over the last eight years, it would have missed by two wins per season simply due to fact that run distribution is outside of the realm of forecasting. Projecting aggregate totals with some degree of success is possible, but no one is capable of knowing whether a team is going to score exactly five runs each game or whether they’re going to alternate 10 run games with shutouts. We know what’s more likely, based on historical data and normal distribution, and the best anyone can do is to assume that a team will score and allow runs in something like a normal distribution going forward.

So, we’ve basically explained 30% of the White Sox variation from their PECOTA projections. What could explain the other 70%?

Don Cooper and the White Sox training staff is probably a large chunk of that. Last year, Jeff Zimmerman had a really great post on 10 year DL trends, and I’m going to steal two images from that post and put them here:

The overall health of the White Sox during the last decade has been pretty staggering. Look specifically at the blue pitcher injury bars. From 2002 to 2011, the White Sox pitchers lost fewer than 2,000 days to the DL, while most teams were over 3,000, a lot of teams were over 4,000, and the Rangers were up over 6,000. The White Sox had a remarkable run of pitcher health, and as new GM Rick Hahn told a group of FG readers and authors in Phoenix a few years ago, the organization views Cooper and the training staff as one of the main reasons the team has been competitive during this stretch.

Team forecasts are essentially a collection of individual forecasts realigned to account for expected playing time levels. Because specific pitcher injuries are hard to predict, forecasting systems rely on a player’s own personal track record and normal regression to the mean, which accounts for the fact that there is a chance each player will get injured and miss a chunk of time during the season.

The White Sox pitchers have continually spent a fraction of the time on the DL that any forecasting system would have projected, and so the team’s innings have been reallocated from replacement level scrubs to the team’s highest quality arms. As a result, the White Sox have had the best pitching staff in baseball since 2005, coming in with both an ERA- and FIP- of 93 during that time. They may often get overlooked because of the hitter’s haven they play in, but Chicago has consistently put together results that were better than many high profile staffs, even if they did it with depth and endurance rather than splashy aces.

Chicago has only had 14 pitchers throw at least 100 innings as a starter for them over the last eight years, and of those 14, only three — Orlando Hernandez, Clayton Richard, and Philip Humber — could be described as below average Major League starters during their time in Chicago. That’s remarkable. Even other teams that have focused heavily on pitching during this run have ended up giving long runs to lousy pitchers, simply due to the fact that pitchers break down, and teams either live through terrible performances trying to get them fixed or have terrible replacements come up from the minors.

The White Sox simply haven’t had that problem. They might not have had a rotation fronted by Roy Halladay or Cliff Lee, but they also didn’t give 265 innings to Adam Eaton and his 136 ERA-. While most of the analysis about a pitching rotation’s strength focuses on how good the first few starters are, the contributions of the guys at the back end can make a huge difference as well. And, no team has gotten more value from their back-end starters than the White Sox, primarily because they’ve been able to keep them healthy and avoid the roller coaster of minor league fill-ins that most teams inevitably have to endure.

Trying to quantify exactly what the difference in wins that Cooper and Herm Schneider have meant to the franchise is a more difficult task than looking at the distribution of runs, but just for fun, let’s add an extra 200 days per year on the DL for the White Sox pitching staff, which would bring them to that 2002-2011 league norm that Zimmerman demonstrated last year. There’s roughly 185 days in a Major League season, so we’re basically talking about the difference of not losing one pitcher for a full year, or about 180 to 200 innings pitched.

The average White Sox pitcher during the 2005-2012 timeframe has averaged +2.9 WAR per 180 innings. If we assume that another pitching coach/training staff would have lost that pitcher to injury each season, and the White Sox would have had to replace that pitcher with a collection of replacement level arms, we’ve now accounted for an additional 43% of the White Sox variation from their PECOTA projected records. There’s some assumptions in there that might not be true, but it seems pretty clear that the White Sox track record of pitcher health has added something on the order of several wins per season to the team’s record during the time we’re discussing. Maybe it’s two wins instead of three. I’m not going to argue for this being a precise calculation, but it’s clearly a major factor, and probably an even larger factor than the run distribution we talked about earlier.

Between pitcher health and run distributions, we can probably assume that those two factors account for 50-75% of the team’s variation from the PECOTA projections over the last eight years. One of the two factors is basically not forecastable, while the other is something that the White Sox absolutely deserve a lot of credit for, and it should be noted that this appears to be a sustainable advantage for the organization. If you think the White Sox projections from any system are too low, pointing to Cooper and Schneider’s success at keeping pitchers healthy is almost certainly your best answer to why the team may continue to outperform those projections once again.

But also, please just keep in mind that projections are not predictions. They are a snapshot of what we think a team’s median true talent level might be, and it should be understood that there’s a pretty sizable margin for error based on things that projection systems simply can’t forecast, and also the errors that come from having imperfect information or imperfect calculations. The standard deviation in wins from the good forecasting systems are somewhere in the range of eight wins, meaning that a team forecast for 77 wins could reasonably be expected to win anywhere from 69 to 85 games without it saying anything about the model having a breakdown. There are simply too many uncontrollable and unpredictable variables to get so precise with our preseason forecasts, and simply because of how bell curves work, there are always going to be teams that fall at the tail end of the distribution, making the forecasts look wildly wrong in retrospect.

Most years, there’s one team that beats its forecast by 15 wins, sometimes even 20. Last year, we had two, with Baltimore and Oakland winning far more than anyone expected. Pretty much any team forecast for north of 70 wins has some chance at making the playoffs if the stars align. A 77 win forecast for the White Sox — from any projection system — shouldn’t be taken as a death knell for their season, especially with what we know about their apparent ability to keep their pitchers healthy. But, it’s still worth knowing the consensus projections for the White Sox this year have them as something like the 10th best team in the American League. That doesn’t mean that they can’t win, but it does mean that it’s less likely that they’re going to make the playoffs than most of their competitors.

You don’t need a perfect model in order to extract useful information. Projection systems are not perfect models, and as the White Sox have shown, there are important variables that are not being measured as well as they could be. That said, don’t throw the baby out with the bath water, and don’t assume that the people behind the projections are biased towards your team just because they created a system that spits out a number you don’t like. Instead of going on the attack, try to figure out why the projection system says what it does, and see if there’s a reasonable argument for why it might be missing something.

With the White Sox, there is definitely a reasonable argument that projection systems underrate their ability to keep their pitchers healthy. The run distribution thing is probably just randomness, and I wouldn’t advise counting on that going forward, but the White Sox may very well outperform their projections again this year. Instead of decrying the systems as useless, maybe just use that information as reason to throw Don Cooper a parade.





Dave is the Managing Editor of FanGraphs.

66 Comments
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MikeS
13 years ago

I am a White Sox fan and I always find it weird that my fellow White Sox fans get upset about things like this. Projections are meaningless for me. What am I going to do? cancel my season tickets over a low PECOTA? In 2006, many pundits picked the White Sox to win the division (obviously not PECOTA) was that a better season than 2005? These things are not worth getting upset or excited over. They exist to help GM’s improve the team and to fill column inches. They are only a little more meaningful to the average fan than the useless “Power Rankings” that appear everywhere. Fans take this as a sign that there team is not respected. Thanks, but you can respect whoever you want, I’ll take wins over respect any day as a fan.

Now I’m off to check the Blackhawk’s Power Rankings.

Baltar
13 years ago
Reply to  MikeS

Good idea not to be concerned. The White Sox underperformed their PECOTA in 2 of those 10 years. That hardly proves a biased coin.

Xeifrank
13 years ago

PECOTA has had some serious issues post-Nate Silver, no? They put out projections, major flaws are found… then they put out a new revision – rinse and repeat.

Richie
13 years ago
Reply to  Xeifrank

I’ve stopped using them, but my recall is that they typically set themselves an ambitious outline, then rushed things to meet it. With the expected amount of errors following.

So it wasn’t PECOTA problems, but marketing writing checks too big for production to make good on.

philosofoolMember since 2016
13 years ago
Reply to  Xeifrank

I think most of that was in their first post-Silver season, when they were basically trying to make Silver’s gaigantic excel sheet into a computer script.

Some of the arguments against them have been unfair, in my opinion, since PECOTA’s PTA forecasts were compared with non-PTA forecasts for all players with 450+ PA, and of course, the error in PTA made a big difference.

PECOTA still uses FRAA for defense, which is a joke at best, and a number of BPro’s proprietary metrics aren’t as good as what Fangraphs caries. If you’re looking for 5×5 projections, PECOTA is fine. But don’t believe the hype: looking for the most accurate system in the universe is pointless and real differences between projection systems are small.

dafuq
13 years ago
Reply to  Xeifrank

Yes.

wes
13 years ago

Could you please explain “projections are not predictions?”

dafuq
13 years ago
Reply to  wes

It is an entire article about a semantic distinction. Projections are predictions.

joser
13 years ago
Reply to  dafuq

No, it’s an entire article distinguishing between two concepts and then choosing to attach those words in a way that maintains the distinction.

dafuq
13 years ago
Reply to  joser

Cool. Lemme know when you find a dictionary instead of relying on Mr. Cameron to redefine the English language.

Kyle Boddy
13 years ago
Reply to  dafuq

Projections are not predictions. This has nothing to do with baseball English and everything to do with math and economics; these concepts have been around for quite a bit longer than sabermetrics has been in the mainstream.

AC of DC
13 years ago

Not that I doubt the author, but the absurdity compelled me to follow the link to verify that Tomaso had in fact written the phrase “[m]y whole world of reality” — to say nothing of distinguishing such as its own paragraph. May we throw him out with the bathwater?

I must have missed (or perhaps forgotten) the original Zimmerman piece on DL numbers. I recall the Yankees firing their Strength and Conditioning coach a few years back in response to multiple early-season injuries. It seemed a little Steinbrennerian on the surface, but it turned out the guy had made some significant (and not entirely popular) changes to the training regimen.

If there is call for more research on this going forward (and with millions theoretically at stake, there surely will be), I’d wonder if we’d be better able than now to discern how much is the training staff and how much is drafting/signing guys with good health projections, good mechanics, and good habits (like, say, learning to stretch on your own even if the coach doesn’t tell you to do it).

NeilS
13 years ago

Maybe i missed this, but mid-season moves would also account for a lot of the difference, right? If you seriously improve (or weaken) your team with a trade, that could mean a difference of a couple wins, too.

steex
13 years ago
Reply to  NeilS

I had this thought as well. Kenny was quite the wheeler and dealer, so it was not uncommon to see roster changes to compete. While the White Sox haven’t had an impressive farm in a while, they’ve also made the most of their farm both through role-filler MLB production and trade return.

Well-Beered Englishman
13 years ago
Reply to  NeilS

That was my first thought. Kenny Williams is an aggressive GM, and it seems easy enough to prove/disprove. One would simply look at if the team was closer to its projection when August and September are discarded.

The reduced sample size is a risk.

Detroit Michael
13 years ago
Reply to  NeilS

Indeed. I doubt that mid-season trades are as big a factor as much better than average health, but it’s a factor. An article in the most recent Hardball Times Annual noted Williams’ tendency to make mid-season trades for talent.

DrBGiantsfan
13 years ago

1. So, to some extent, injuries are projectable probabilities and therefore could potentially be included in a projection system?

2. While projections are not predictions many people who read them turn around and use them as not only predictions, but reality as if there is no need to even bother playing the season.

obsessivegiantscompulsive
13 years ago
Reply to  DrBGiantsfan

Totally on 2! I don’t know how many times I’ve seen people put out the projections as the end of the argument for or against a player.

MrKnowNothing
13 years ago

gotta love a guy who believes in an individual’s system (or systems, in Silver’s case, i guess) … until it disagrees with him.

Greg
13 years ago

As a fellow Athletic Trainer I was surprised to see an article giving credit to the Athletic Training Staff as a reason for a teams success on the field. Thanks for the love Dave!

Tim
13 years ago
Reply to  Greg

Actually Oakland seems to be below-average.

Jorge Fabregas
13 years ago
Reply to  Tim

I don’t think he was talking about the Oakland Athletics, but rather the profession of athletic trainers.

joser
13 years ago
Reply to  Jorge Fabregas

And I think Tim was making a joke

dafuq
13 years ago
Reply to  Greg

I think this will be one of the next major areas where teams can really improve. Throwing things over your head really fast will make your body wonky, but this doesn’t mean that some of the issues can’t be addressed through progressive treatment and pre-hab rather than just sitting around and icing it.

Also, see any of the people who are notorious for not adopting decent S&C programs (though not to defend all the programs, some seem pretty dumb) and wondering why they get injured more often than someone proactive.

Eminor3rdMember since 2019
13 years ago

Holy crap, that article quotation is inane. When I see stuff like that, I wonder why people like that have jobs. Maybe there aren’t very many people who want to be sportswriters?

Eminor3rdMember since 2019
13 years ago
Reply to  Eminor3rd

Looking at it again, it must be a joke. I’m overreacting.

De Selby
13 years ago
Reply to  Eminor3rd

no, i think you have a right to be outraged. yeah, that fool is partly joking around but the fact that he couldn’t even be bothered to find out that silver was a tiger fan and that when he was in chicago he actually was a white sox fan is pretty sad.

chuckb
13 years ago
Reply to  Eminor3rd

They get paid to say outrageous things, not to be factually accurate. When they’re called out for their idiocy, they can just say something like “it was a joke”, rationalizing it and attempting to pass the blame to the reader or listener.

CircleChange11
13 years ago
Reply to  chuckb

True.

They get paid to start an emotion-filled discussion.

You don;t do that by logically comparing & contrasting X and Y.

You do that by saying “Let me tell you what’s wrong with X …” and then you do so in a combative way.

MikeS
13 years ago
Reply to  Eminor3rd

Catering to the meatballs.

After all, Skip Bayless still has a job.

Eminor3rdMember since 2019
13 years ago
Reply to  MikeS

I assumed it was McNeil before I saw it was Ofman, but then I realized that McNeil doesn’t care enough about baseball to actually be offended by anything like BP.

Garys of OldeMember since 2016
13 years ago
Reply to  Eminor3rd

They are merely catering to the type of inane White Sox fans who went hoarse during the repeated “Cubs suck” chants during the 2005 playoffs/World Series/championship parade (none of which, obviously, involved the Cubs). They know their audience.

Huisj
13 years ago

Didn’t Nate Silver grow up in East Lansing, not Detroit?

I think White Sox fans still remember when Baseball Prospectus wouldn’t give the Sox a 100% chance of winning the division in 2005 even after they’d clinched because their model didn’t understand the MLB tie breaking procedure at the time. Sox fans made fun of them for it, and their responses were all arrogant and blamed MLB’s system as opposed to admitting that their model had an error in it. They lost a lot of credibility with Sox fans from that just because they acted so stupid about it.

deadpool
13 years ago
Reply to  Huisj

Relating to customers is probably BPros number one problem.

You criticize and they get defensive. Everything is hidden behind the veil. And you have to pay for what other sites do better for free.

brad
13 years ago
Reply to  deadpool

Not to be contentious, as I agree with the underlying sentiment, but I’m going to have to say their main flaw is an utter inability to retain the people who made it into what it is (was).

The two may well be connected by a flawed upper management.

JS7
13 years ago

Michael Tomaso is an idiot.

Mark Liptak
13 years ago

Huisj’s comment hit the nail EXACTLY on the head when it comes to Sox fans and why they belittle BP. BP brought it all on themselves by their arrogance.

The only other comment after reading what I’m sure was a well intentioned piece by the author is to remember the quote from Monty Python and Mr. Gumby, “my brain hurts…”

Mark Liptak

Dr. Chaleeko
13 years ago

Dave,

The Cooper/Schneider factor seems like it would be dynamically interrelated to the runs-allowed side of the run-distribution factor.

Also another possible factor. Ozzie was a good handler of the pen, which might have helped the team beat projections. This would also be interrelated to Don/Herm.

I won’t be surprised that other teams start to copy the Sox method, reducing the gap among all teams.

chuckb
13 years ago

Who’s to say that the Sox’s pitchers ability to stay healthy is attributable to Cooper and their training staff and not just to luck? Granted, that sort of success probably has some cause other than luck but how do we know that it’s not luck?

A couple years ago you wrote a great post about luck, talking about how (I think) the NFC won the Super Bowl coin flip 14 years in a row, supporting the notion that sometimes things that are very improbable happen. The possibility that their success avoiding injuries is attributable to good luck is more likely than the coin flip victories.

ron
13 years ago
Reply to  chuckb

Maybe it is luck but while it is possibly luck it is more likely not. It would be a complete disregard of critical thinking to just say it is luck and move on. First try to eliminate the reasons then if none work say luck. This opens up thoughts about how well the White Sox make mid-season trades, how the ability to limit injuries helps a team and such.

dafuq
13 years ago
Reply to  chuckb

It is both.

Bookbook
13 years ago

I see this a bunch. People get really steamed at, say, John Sickels because he’s not rating their team’s prospects highly enough. When, in truth, the rating have something like zero bearing on the ultimate success of their favorite team.

In politics, the perceived momentum impacts fundraising and voter behavior (a variant of the bandwagon effect). So gaming the polling and predicting your guy’s victory can be a self-fulfilling prophecy at the margins.

In baseball? It’s fun to disagree amicably, but it won’t effect your team. There’s nothing at stake.

Joeyheynow
13 years ago

Which Chicago broadcaster said this?

Joeyheynow
13 years ago
Reply to  Joeyheynow

McNeil? Mulligan?

ODawg
13 years ago

Good article for a fan of those other Sox to read. Hopefully some of Cooper’s magic rubbed off on Juan Nieves and the apparent pitching depth the Red Sox have accumulated isn’t a mirage.

whitesox67
13 years ago

I think that healthy good starting pitching is the biggest factor in winning percentage during the regular season. In the post season, a dominant starter’s worth is elevated but during the regular season the aggregate worth and health of the starting five could be the salient factor in a team’s success.

MatManz
13 years ago

They consistently outperform their projections. I believe it’s a combination of BP underrating a lot of their players/prospects and as some have pointed out a lack of major injuries. I wasn’t a fan of the White Sox offseason but they’re still poised to outperform BP’s low projections once again.

Grand Admiral Braun
13 years ago

From Southsidesoxfeature: “While dismissing runs created, (hitting coach) Manto offered his own statistical category: “runs produced” — measured by runs and RBI, subtracting home runs from that total and dividing that number by games played.” BAZINGA!!

Eminor3rdMember since 2019
13 years ago

Yeah, that one made me chuckle too. But, I can see that being a good way for a coach to give out morale-based kudos to guys. He doesn’t need stats that help him build a roster.

zenbitz
13 years ago

If the SD is 8 wins and there are 30 teams, then the chances are pretty high than any one team will have predictions ca. 56 wins above or below average over 7 years.

I estimate it at about 10%.

Rainja182
13 years ago

The Question now becomes whether or not this should (can?) be added to current projection system for White Sox players.

Rainja182
13 years ago
Reply to  Rainja182

Or on the high end, the Rangers.

Jim
13 years ago

Nate Silver predicted 53 house GOP seats in 2010 they picked up 67… also gave Rick Perry a 51% chance to win 2012 GOP presidential nomination he went on to finish 10th out of 10… He is good but far from perfect.

Vijay
13 years ago

When I read the title of this article, I immediately thought “Don Cooper”.

In 2008, the Sox are listed to have 89 wins, which they did, but had to win game 163 in order to do so. Should that extra game be accounted for in the difference?

John Franco
13 years ago

I would still like to see a follow-up article on whether BP is correct to hate their prospects.

TKDC
13 years ago

This drivel is the kind of thing you expect to see with a mix of thumbs up and thumbs down on a yahoo sports comments section. I’m not being hyperbolic; I truly believe that you could take the average idiot comment from a 15-year-old and it would be of equal or greater quality. The guy should be embarrassed of himself, but he surely isn’t.

TKDC
13 years ago
Reply to  TKDC

And to clarify, though I doubt it is needed, I’m talking about the clown from Chicago, not Dave Cameron.

Jason B
13 years ago
Reply to  TKDC

Bozo?

wobatus
13 years ago
Reply to  Jason B

You’re stuck on some clown from the ’60s, man.

baty
13 years ago

Ah… George Ofman… I forgot about that goof. Doesn’t surprise me one bit.

obsessivegiantscompulsive
13 years ago

I don’t think that it is out of the realm of possibility that BP is biased against one team or another. So I sympathize with White Sox fans if that is their view of BP’s overall stance regarding their team. I agree that Pecota would not be biased against a certain team, but overall, they can be biased, I believe.

I have seen a similar negativity against the Giants, enough that I’ve stopped buying their annuals. For example, they keep on beating up on the Giants about the punted picks, touting that the Giants could have selected Matt Cain with those picks, but forgetting that their own analysis advised that teams should not select high school players, and particularly pitchers, in the first round. In general, I found that their annual analysis of the Giants to be lacking in terms of understanding what the Giants and Sabean were doing.

The final straw for me was their spending the whole chapter on why Brian Sabean should be fired. FYI, that was their 2010 Annual, the year Sabean finally won it all. And I checked on their 2011 Annual (read it in a book store, wasn’t going to pay for it), not a word about what they wrote about in 2010, so I lost all respect for their tough-sounding marketing blurbs that ring hallow for me that if they are going so far as to advocate for a GM to be fired, they should have the balls to admit that they were wrong or at least address it in the following year about why they still believe they are correct in spite of the world championship. They did neither.

Of course, after two championships in three seasons, it seems pretty clear that BP did not understand what Sabean was doing in building up a team, and if they can’t do that for a team that accomplished something that hasn’t been done since the 70’s Reds, then what else have they been missing with their analysis?

obsessivegiantscompulsive
13 years ago

The funny thing is that the Giants first championship could have been predicted by BP.

Their book, Baseball Between the Numbers, studied the issue of why Billy Beane’s methods didn’t work in the playoffs, and they came up with some metric rules for teams that usually went deep into the playoffs, and the 2010 Giants had those type of stats, high K/9 staff, great closer, good defense. I looked up those stats off their website and found that the Giants would have ranked in their Top 10 list, where 7 of the 10 won the World Series, and two that didn’t, lost to another Top 10 (three happened to happen in 1979).

And adjusting for the fact that the Giants seasonal stats did not represent the team actually in the playoffs – the team in the playoffs had a great K/9, great closer, as well as good defense – their 2012 team fits the metrics, after the fact and adjustment. For example, much was made out of how the Reds had a better bullpen, but what was missed was that they had a better bullpen overall in the season because the Giants had to turn to some subpar relievers along the way, but in the playoffs, the cumulative ERA for the actual playoff bullpen for the Giants were just as good as the Reds. Overall, the team in the playoffs played to the stats of a team that regularly won the World Series, in the past.

So BP could have looked pretty good touting their prior book’s results and trumpeting the Giants. Instead, they are known for asking publicly for the GM to be fired, right when he finally wins it all.

Botox
13 years ago

Its a good collection of health blogs!

Andy
13 years ago

Really glad to see someone finally give Herm Schneider and Don Cooper some love. We White Sox fans think of Don Cooper as some sort of “pitcher-whisperer.” He can look at someone and immediately disect what’s wrong with their mechanics. This exact thing happened with Matt Thornton. Coop saw Thornton throwing for Seattle against the Sox in spring training and told the GM that a simple suggestion would add 5mph to Thornton’s fastball and make him more accurate. Kenny traded for him within a week of the game, and immediately Thornton was throwing “gas” for the Sox and making all-star games.

Ryan
13 years ago

Wouldn’t it be interesting to see how all teams have fared over the last 10 years or so compared to a ranking system or all ranking systems?