Tim Anderson, Paul DeJong, and Terrible Plate Discipline

This is not just about the Cardinals’ shortstop Paul DeJong. He’s the subject of the sarcastic tweet below, but the point is that this sort of sentiment — surprise at a walk from a player with poor plate discipline — is increasingly more common in today’s game.

It’s true, he walked! It’s also true he hasn’t walked much this year, and that he strikes out a lot. For the season, he has coupled a 2.6% BB% with a 31.3% K%. Yikes! But, with today’s power environment, this sort of plate discipline is more…allowable. Used to be, if you struck out four times for every walk, you just didn’t have a spot in baseball. That’s not true any more.

Take a look. Here’s a raw count per season of all the players with four strikeouts to every walk. I used a minimum of 200 plate appearances, so DeJong (and his 10 strikeouts per walk) didn’t qualify, but he’s here in spirit.

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As the league strikeout rate has gone up, so has the number of players with terrible plate discipline. Is this a function of the power environment, though, or just the product of the highest strikeout rate in baseball history? It’s hard to separate the two, given the fact that both strikeouts and power are at historic highs.

Most likely, it’s a little bit of both. The league’s strikeout rate makes the strikeout rate more okay, but the players with this terrible rate of strikeouts per walk are also sporting the highest aggregated isolated slugging percentage in baseball history. The 37 players that have had 200 plate appearances so far this year and are sporting four strikeouts per walk are averaging a .173 ISO, and the second-highest ISO for the group came in 2009 with a .161 number.

White Sox shortstop Tim Anderson may be in trouble. He’s projected for a .121 ISO, far below that average, and yet he’s inching close to 10 strikeouts per walk. There’s hope for him, yet, though. He’s 24 and that means at least two years of improving his strikeout rate, by normal aging curves. He had a .149 ISO last year. And despite poor defensive numbers last year, his reputation there has been impeccable, and he’s baseball’s third-fastest shortstop, so he brings athleticism to the table.

In years past, he might not have had a chance. The margins might also be razor thin for teammate Matt Davidson, who doesn’t probably bring plus defense at third and is projected to be worse than our benchmark. The good news is that he already has 19 home runs, and if he can keep that up, and improve the walk rate at all, he might carve out a role for a while. The Wins Above Replacement model won’t love him much, though, because for all of his power right now, he’s only league average with the bat and not an asset anywhere else.

San Diego rookie Franchy Cordero may have a plus-plus name, but with a 44% strikeout rate against a 6% walk rate, and 32% to 5% projected, he would have had insurmountable obstacles in the past. He may fit into the DeJong category, though, as he’s played center field and may provide some defense and baserunning. He’ll have to do much better than the projected .131 ISO to stick, though. Right now he’s back in Triple-A.

There are other interesting rookies that fit the bill. The Athletics’ Chad Pinder (31%/6%), the Yankees’ Clint Frazier (current — 28%/3%, projected — 28%/7%), and the White Sox’ Adam Engel (31%/7%) all qualify for our ‘terrible plate discipline’ group. These three, though, have the ability to offer defensive value, and the first two have the power to stick. The Athletics also boast Ryon Healy (26%/4%), so maybe they, like the White Sox, have a higher threshold for pain in this matter. Produce power and/or defense, and you’re okay.

Of course, it’s much harder if DeJong and Anderson maintain a ten to one pace. Only Ivan Rodriguez (once, in 2007), and Sean Rodriguez (in 2015) have managed to play more than 120 games with that sort of ratio. Only Miguel Olivo has done it twice, and only Rodriguez and Olivo have managed to put up a win of value while doing it. DeJong probably have to push his ratio to at least his projected levels (28%/5%) to be a regular, while Anderson may have to make real improvements beyond his (27%/3%). They aren’t catchers, after all.

You might have written all of these young players completely off in the past due to their plate discipline problems. But today’s game has a place for them. We’re living in the age of Bo Jackson (32%/8%), maybe.





With a phone full of pictures of pitchers' fingers, strange beers, and his two toddler sons, Eno Sarris can be found at the ballpark or a brewery most days. Read him here, writing about the A's or Giants at The Athletic, or about beer at October. Follow him on Twitter @enosarris if you can handle the sandwiches and inanity.

24 Comments
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OTMHeartBBCMember since 2019
9 years ago

should have saved a post this scary for halloween

Vampire Weekend at Bernie's
9 years ago
Reply to  OTMHeartBBC

I believe it’walks that haunt, not strikeouts.

LHPSU
9 years ago

First guy I think of is Alfonso Soriano. His two best seasons were 2002 and 2007, when he sported BB/K rates of 3.1%/21.2% and 5.0%/21.1% respectively.

After that 2.1%/26.3% season in 2015, S-Rod increased his walk rate 4.5 times the following year.

boogshine
9 years ago

I think you answered yourself well early in the piece. Selection. In a larger 30-team league that values data not previously available or maybe just places different emphasis, different sorts of players are being promoted than before. I’m not sure Ichiro, a BA guy with little power visible, is much more than a curiosity in this OBP era. TJ Rivera went undrafted and has had to hit his way past every level as a BA but not OBP guy with moderate power. Would Ichiro have swung for power more if he was starting his career now? “Used to be, if you struck out four times for every walk, you just didn’t have a spot in baseball. That’s not true any more.” Scouting and selection may have changed. How do you find that on a stat sheet?

LHPSU
9 years ago
Reply to  boogshine

“I’m not sure Ichiro, a BA guy with little power visible, is much more than a curiosity in this OBP era.”

Ichiro joined the MLB in 2001 and averaged 5.3 WAR per year from 2001 to 2010.

From 2001 to 2010, league average OBP was .332. League average OBP this year is .325. In the same period, league average walk rate was 8.5%, same as this year.

AnonMember since 2020
9 years ago
Reply to  boogshine

Um, yeah, no.

Ichiro almost never struck out either so he doesn’t belong in this conversation. Combine that with his ability to post regular BABIPs of .350 and the guy was routinely posting OBPs in the high .300s. That is pretty much the polar opposite of the guys in this post.

Ichiro would probably have a few more people today pointing out some of the deficiencies in his numbers (his ENORMOUS number of infield hits were nowhere near as valuable as regular singles for example), but young Ichiro would be a star today as well.

TwinPeaks
9 years ago

Good article…as far as Tim Anderson specifically, I’m giving him a mulligan for this year after one of his best friends died in a shooting in early May. His numbers this year certainly don’t look good, though.

carterMember since 2020
9 years ago

Don’t mention Bo Jackson in an article. Every time someone mentions his name I go down this inevitable how amazing Bo Jackson was wormhole.

JimMember since 2016
9 years ago
Reply to  carter

Sitting behind home plate in the scout’s section, I once asked a veteran scout who was the most talented player he’d ever seen. Not the best, the most talented. His answer: “Bo Jackson.”

AnonMember since 2020
9 years ago
Reply to  carter

Joe Posnanski wrote a brilliant piece a few years ago pointing out that Bo might be the last of the “word-of-mouth legends”. Certainly a lot of his career is on film/tape/video, but there is so much of it that is not compared to today. Today there are a dozen cameras filming every game and every person carries a camera/video camera in their pocket so even something that happens in batting practice has a decent chance of being captured. For much or most of Bo’s career, not even every game was on TV and a typical broadcast probably included 3-5 cameras at most. For example, his famous throw to nail Harold Reynolds at home is only partially on video. You don’t even see him actually make the throw.

Bo is the last of the larger than life legends in many ways.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
9 years ago
Reply to  carter

Bo Jackson doesn’t “deserve” to be in the present-day Hall of Fame, but I totally think he should be honored by baseball historians in some way. Even though he wasn’t that good, his cultural impact was enormous and he was must-see TV. A lot of us who were kids in the late 80s are going to sound crazy when we tell our kids about Bo Jackson if we don’t have some sort of historical backup.

carterMember since 2020
9 years ago

I sure hope Paul Dejong sticks. He sure is fun to watch hit.

formerly matt wMember since 2025
9 years ago

“Only Ivan Rodriguez (once, in 2007), and Sean Rodriguez (in 2015) have managed to play more than 120 games with that sort of ratio”

Sean Rodriguez gets a big asterisk there, too, as he only had 37 starts and 240 PA. That was the year the Pirates tried Pedro Alvarez at first base, and he was so god-awful defensively that they would swap Rodriguez in for him late in the game whenever they could. So (according to BBRef) Rodriguez had 102 games where he appeared at first, but only 12 starts.

The next year his walk rate spiked and he had a career year offensively, to the surprise of all the Pirate fans who were super mad that they’d signed him back up.

Jaredmbp1
9 years ago

Just curious why, in an article about plate discipline, you use K% and BB% and not the plate disciple stats. I’m sure they would show the same thing, I just really like seeing how often guys are taking pitches in the zone vs chasing pitches outside the zone. It may show more similarities or differences between some of these players. I’ll take a look sometime!

burts_beadsMember since 2016
9 years ago

“And despite poor defensive numbers last year”

This is in reference to Anderson and I’m not sure I understand it because he had an UZR and DRS of 6 last year in 850 innings.

BMac
9 years ago

It’s curious that your lump DeJong & Anderson together stating that it’s harder for them to stick if they maintain their current strikeout pace. I don’t think they have the same challenges. DeJong is excellent defensively and has out of your mind power, at least currently, and can maintain his place in the lineup indefinitely playing this way. Anderson probably needs to be quite a bit more worried!

DeJong is excellent at fouling off pitches to prolong ABs, a skill associated with a higher walk rate. He’s drawn a couple of walks since moving up in the batting order, so perhaps he’s learning to just allow himself to accept ball four now & then.

KenMember since 2017
9 years ago

I think you mean four strikeouts to every walk (not vice versa) above the first chart.

DoubleJ
9 years ago

More like PAUL DeDONG

The Duke
9 years ago

I’m a lot more comfortable with my SS having this dynamic. The Cards started Peter Kozma for a full year. DeJong appears to be roughly equivalent defense and he might hit 40 HRs. I’d stick him in the 8th slot and bang away – they have him batting third and Grichuk 4th which is a terrible idea

BMac
9 years ago
Reply to  The Duke

…except that, since he moved up in the order, two walks in two days. The lineup change can be motivational assuming he has the skill set to draw walks. But I agree that 40 hrs and low OBP might be more acceptable from a SS than an OF. I personally think 40 HR rate plays at a lot of positions but at SS for sure.

cgarner29
9 years ago

How ironic that this happened in an era in which the game has universally recognized the value of a walk.

Dominikk85Member since 2020
9 years ago

Problem is not just the walks but what happens if pitchers stop throwing strikes. How far off the plate can you chase and still hit well?