Why Did Dave Roberts Let Yu Darvish Hit?

A little later today, Jeff will have a post about the most amazing play we’ve seen all postseason: Yu Darvish drawing a bases-loaded walk — on four pitches — from Carl Edwards Jr. last night. How did a quality reliever throw four consecutive balls to a career AL pitcher who had zero intention of ever swinging? In the NLCS? For the defending champs?

But in this post, I’m going to ask a different question about that at-bat: why did we ever see it in the first place?

To set the stage: the Dodgers led 3-1 in the top of the sixth inning. The bases were loaded. There were two outs. The pitcher’s spot was due up. A base hit in that situation would almost certainly score two runs, giving the Dodgers a four-run lead with just four innings to go. A home run basically ends the game then and there.

But instead of sending Curtis Granderson up to face Edwards and attempt to build the lead, Roberts chose to stay with Darvish, who then drew the most improbable walk you’ll ever see against a pitcher with a 15% walk rate. The Dodgers’ rally continued.

It was a rally whose end Roberts had effectively conceded, though. Darvish is a career .129 hitter. AL pitchers — of which Darvish was an example until a few months ago — hit .116/.152/141 this year. The odds of a hit were minimal. In his postgame press conference, when asked about the decision, Roberts admitted that, even after seeing Darvish draw a walk to somewhat validate the decision, he had “to go into that at-bat not expecting to come away with a run right there.”

Roberts said he thought Darvish, who had thrown only 70 pitches to that point, could give him “more than an inning,” and he preferred the value of those extra outs to the increased probability of scoring. Is that a reasonable belief?

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Bases loaded with two outs has a run expectancy of about .77 runs, a figure which is based on the types of batters who usually bat in those situations. Pitchers generally do not hit in those situations, so obviously, the run expectancy with a pitcher batting would be much lower. It’s not zero, as Darvish showed. A walk, hit batter, or wild pitch/passed ball can occur without any real input from the hitter. And Edwards isn’t exactly a guy with elite command, so those bad-pitch scenarios are more likely with him on the mound than the average pitcher.

And then there’s the chance of Darvish getting a hit or reaching on an error. Given that he does have one double and one home run in 34 career plate appearances, the chances of a bases-clearing extra-base hit have to be calculated in, as well. So even with something like an expected .150 OBP, the run expectancy with Darvish batting was probably somewhere in the range of .25 runs, or about half a run lower than what we’d think it might have been with Granderson at the plate.

How much better would Darvish have to be to trade half a run for a few extra outs? Well, Darvish has a career ERA of 3.42, which translates to giving up 0.38 runs per inning pitched. Adjusting for the third-time-through-the-order penalty, Darvish is closer to 0.45 runs per inning pitched for that sixth inning, but for this exercise, decimal-point precision isn’t that important. To get an equal run expectancy trade-off in the bottom of the sixth inning, Roberts would have had to replace Darvish with a pitcher who had a true-talent ERA of something like 8.00 to 8.50, which works out to 0.89 to 0.94 runs per inning.

The difference between the best and worst pitchers in baseball over an inning of work is still nowhere near the run-expectancy gap between even a decent major-league hitter and a pitcher batting in that situation. And, obviously, Roberts wasn’t choosing between the best and worst pitchers in the game; the guys he’s using as lower-leverage relievers in this series are Josh Fields, Ross Stripling, and Tony Watson. Those are solid bullpen arms, and it’s not even clear that they would have been likely to give up any more runs in the sixth or seventh inning than Darvish was facing the Cubs for a third time in the game.

So, strictly from a run-expectancy standpoint, the decision is pretty indefensible. The team gave up significantly more in expected offense than they gained in expected defense. It’s not even close.

But run expectancy isn’t really what Roberts was considering when he made that call, and we do have to account for the factors that may have driven his decision. The fact that the Dodgers already had a 2-0 series lead and had roughly a 75% chance of winning Game 3 even if Darvish made an out, meant that the Dodgers chances of winning the NLCS were already above 90% at that point. Roberts isn’t just managing that situation to maximize his chances of winning this particular game. He has to consider what bullpen usage now might mean for his team the next two games and, potentially, in the World Series.

Given that it was a 3-1 game when he made the decision, he likely expected to close out the game with some combination of Brandon Morrow, Kenta Maeda, and Kenley Jansen. If he pinch-hit for Darvish, one of those guys would be working multiple innings and might have very limited availability in Game 4. By letting Darvish pitch the sixth and get the first out of the seventh, he was only asking his bullpen for eight outs. That could have significant benefits for the remainder of the series.

And, again, the series win probability was already over 90% at that point. Roberts has the luxury of managing a bit conservatively, knowing that his team is in a good position to advance to the World Series already, and that there’s some reward for saving some of these October pitches for the next round.

But all those defenses of letting Darvish hit pretty much went out the window by the way Roberts handled the bullpen for the final two innings. After Darvish and Watson combined to get the team through seven, the Dodgers added on two more runs to take a 6-1 lead to the bottom of the eighth inning. Their win probability, at that point, was 98%. Letting Darvish hit had worked, and now the Dodgers could save their best bullpen arms for the next two games.

Except Roberts handed the ball to Brandon Morrow to start the eighth inning, then warmed up Kenta Maeda behind him. With a five-run lead and six outs to go, Roberts still felt the game was too close to lean on his second-tier relievers. Morrow threw 22 pitches to get through a scoreless eighth, pushing the team’s win expectancy up to 99.4%.

So Roberts went to Ross Stripling for the ninth. Five-run lead, only need three outs. Yeah, these comebacks can happen, but the game was pretty safely in the bag for the Dodgers at that point. But Roberts still didn’t really think so, and had Kenley Jansen warming up behind Stripling. Two base hits later and Jansen was called on to get the final three outs and put the Dodgers up 3-0 in the series.

Despite getting the best of both worlds — pushing Darvish into the seventh inning and adding on three additional insurance runs — Roberts still asked Morrow and Jansen to throw 34 pitches between them, and warmed up Maeda to boot. He saved a few pitches for his best arms, but in the end, not really that many, and certainly not as many as they might have saved had Granderson put one in the gap and put them up 6-1 in the sixth inning.

If Roberts knew he was probably going to pitch Morrow and perhaps Jansen even if the team was already in a 99% win-probability situation, then almost the entire argument about saving the bullpen goes by the wayside. Maybe you got Jansen to throw 12 pitches instead of 20, but there wasn’t a lot gained here by having Darvish get those four extra outs.

Up 3-0 in the NLCS and still undefeated in the postseason, this isn’t something Roberts will spend any time second-guessing, most likely. Darvish showed that you can get a run even without pinch-hitting, and then he cruised through the next four outs with ease, putting the team in a situation where they are likely to wrap up the NLCS with plenty of time to rest all their relievers for the World Series.

But in case this situation comes up again, it might behoove one of the Dodgers’ horde of analysts to show Roberts the math on that decision, and point out that the team is far more likely to come out ahead long-term if he pinch-hits with the bases loaded than if he tries to squeak out a few extra outs from his starter.





Dave is the Managing Editor of FanGraphs.

50 Comments
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Handsome Wes
8 years ago

Thank goodness this took place in the National League so we can debate strategy. #EndTheDH

TKDCMember since 2016🏆 MVP
8 years ago
Reply to  Handsome Wes

If this were the AL, then this (and Jeff’s later article would not be written). You’d have nothing to read this morning. I think some gratitude is in order to the superior National League rules.

nixsee
8 years ago
Reply to  TKDC

TKDC, I think you need another coffee. Gratitude is literally what was expressed…

TKDCMember since 2016🏆 MVP
8 years ago
Reply to  nixsee

I assumed this was sarcastic. My bad if it wasn’t.

Handsome Wes
8 years ago
Reply to  TKDC

I took it as sarcasm!

shudd1
8 years ago
Reply to  Handsome Wes

I could see taking it as sarcasm for a split-second, but for me the hashtag cleared up any ambiguity.

drew_willyMember since 2020
8 years ago

Both Granderson’s projected numbers and this table (http://www.nssl.noaa.gov/users/brooks/public_html/feda/datasets/expectedruns.html) – wrong era I know but best I could find – suggest that LA’s chances of scoring zero runs there were around 66%. With two more games before an off day, a rotation that hasn’t gone deep throughout the postseason, and such a high chance of not scoring at all, isn’t it totally defensible to try to get some length out of Darvish there?

Mind you, I think the later use of Jansen and the warming of Maeda were dumb because Stripling and Fields ought to be trusted to protect a five run lead. A later mistake doesn’t prove the choice with Darvish was a bad one though.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
8 years ago
Reply to  drew_willy

I haven’t looked at the probabilities on this, but if the scenario of Yu Darvish at bat and the bases loaded in the 6th innning (when Darvish is likely only going to be in for another inning anyway) doesn’t call for a pinch hitter, what does? Maybe if there were fewer outs or it was the 7th/8th inning, a pinch-hitter would make more sense, but if a pinch hitter isn’t useful here then I can’t imagine a situation where it would be.

(I am also willing to concede it might not ever be useful, although I don’t really believe it yet)

TKDCMember since 2016🏆 MVP
8 years ago

Darvish was pitching great at that point. I refuse to believe that managers understand that Darvish is just as likely to implode in the next inning as a fresh arm coming out of the bullpen (if not more likely). Managers believe that a guy who has not had any trouble through five innings with a low pitch count is a virtual guarantee. It’s not. But that’s what they believe. And yes, this is pure speculation.

Dave TMember since 2016
8 years ago
Reply to  TKDC

I generally agree with you, and Game 1 of this series is an interesting data point from the same manager. Kershaw had scuffled some that game – though he’d retired the last 6 hitters – and Roberts pinch hit for Kershaw with a runner on 2nd and 2 out in the 5th inning of a tie game.

diminishedsixthsense
8 years ago

yu darvish bat flips in your face

Chad Huffman
8 years ago

Considering the bullpen, it was valid but I don’t agree with Roberts on reliefs.

Mike NMN
8 years ago

Not going to argue with the basic premise of this, because I think Dave is right. But Granderson had an OBP of .288 with the Dodgers and had so far gone 1-11 in the post season. That’s after a .183/.284/.338 triple slash in September. This is a very streaky player, and always has been. He’s not hot right now.

doffbhoya123
8 years ago
Reply to  Mike NMN

yeah i wonder if this decision was as much about grandy’s recent performance as a hitter as it was about whether darvish could eat up some reliever innings

kevo8Member since 2020
8 years ago
Reply to  Mike NMN

If this is the case, though, then why is Granderson on the roster at all? His carrying tool as a player at this point in his career is his bat, and if you don’t think he’s a good enough hitter to justify pinch hitting for Yu Darvish with the bases loaded and two outs, I think it’s fair to wonder if that roster spot could have been used better.

Roger McDowell Hot Foot
8 years ago
Reply to  kevo8

Because “streaky” isn’t a real (i.e. predictive) thing?

sadtromboneMember since 2020
8 years ago
Reply to  Mike NMN

I strongly agree with this (and with kevo8) but this makes me wonder: Was there no one else that they could use to pinch hit there? This is probably the best, most obvious time to use a pinch hitter. They had to have someone, right?

John Autin
8 years ago

Do we have run expectancies for the postseason, specifically? It’s relevant because BA almost always goes down in the PS, relative to the regular year — it has done in 83 of 97 PS in the live-ball era, by an average of 22 points. And the ratio of walks to hits tends to rise in the PS.

And specific to Edwards:
1) He yields very few hits (career .132 BA), but a high walk rate. He’s yielded 20% more walks than hits!
2) His walk rate seems almost immune to the situation or who’s at bat. In his career, he’s walked #8-9 hitters just as frequently as #1-4 hitters, and his walk rate with bases loaded or 1st-and-2nd is close to that of all other spots (excluding IBB).

So, while a pinch-hitter would still have a better chance at a hit than Darvish, it’s probably not as big an edge as we’d think. And the advantage in BB% is probably smaller than we think.

One more thing … Edwards isn’t used to facing a pitcher. It’s happened just 3 times before, and one produced a 2-run hit with the bags full and 2 out (in May of this year, in a one-run game). For some struggling pitchers, getting to face a pitcher with a chance to escape a jam would be a relief; but for Edwards right there, I think it raised his stress. The most *embarrassing* thing that could possibly happen to him was walking a pitcher to force in a run.

I don’t know if Roberts thought about any of this — I didn’t, not until the count was 2-0. But it makes letting Darvish bat look more reasonable.

(Plus, it’s a helluva “F.U.” move.)

OTMHeartBBCMember since 2019
8 years ago

he wanted to mind fvck little baby carl edwards, worked

Sammy Sooser
8 years ago

Roberts is too media-savvy and classy to say this, but it’s possible that he wanted to save some bullets for Alex Wood’s start today. Wood last pitched 3 weeks ago (aside from bullpens/sim games), and it seems prudent to cover that base as well.

Roger McDowell Hot Foot
8 years ago
Reply to  Sammy Sooser

but… he didn’t save the bullets, he proceeded to fire them all

sphenreckson
8 years ago

With regard to his decision to use Morrow and Jansen: Yes, he could have gotten away without using them. But what did it really cost? They were both fresh, coming off an off-day, and with the number of pitches thrown, they will certainly be available today. It’s not like the Dodgers will need them a lot more in this series (most likely): If they have even one more game where they come in with the lead, one assumes they will shut down the Cubs yet again, and end the series.

Then imagine the possibilities if the Dodgers somehow blow the game by not using Morrow and Jansen. Imagine all the media criticism of Roberts. Managers generally go with their best pitchers in the postseason with the lead if the game is even slightly in doubt, because the criticism of them if they don’t, and then somehow lose the game, would be deafening.

If you lose because you use your best players too much, not many people are going to criticize you.

mikejuntMember
8 years ago
Reply to  sphenreckson

The Dodgers generally treat a relief outing of 15 pitches or less like it pretty much didn’t happen for availability purposes. I don’t know that this game ended up affecting Morrow and Jansen’s availability in a really substantial way.

Dave TMember since 2016
8 years ago
Reply to  mikejunt

To Mike’s point, I agree that it’s not like either of them is unavailable today, but both Morrow and Jansen have now pitched three times in four days in this series.

Granted, they’d prior to that had 4 days of rest after the NLDS, and the pitch counts in each appearance have been pretty low. Morrow’s 22 pitches last night was the most, and all of the other appearances have been less than 20 pitches. But having them pitch last night has to have some impact on how long they can be expected to go today, or how effective they will be, or their availability/effectiveness if they pitch again today and then would be pitching for the 5th time in 6 days in a potential Game 5.

To me, a good approach to try to save both of those bullets would have been to use Cingrani to start the 8th for Zobrist and Schwarber. Watson had come out for a PH in the top of the 8th, and I think a lefty makes sense there. Zobrist, despite career splits that are good against LH pitching, seems limited as a RH hitter now due to a left wrist problem that had him on the DL earlier this year. Schwarber of course has massive platoon splits. After Cingrani faces those two hitters, then go to either Stripling or Fields for the final 4 (or 5) outs. If more than 1 batter reaches, you can bring in Morrow mid-inning (and even that may well be overly conservative, expectations dictate it probably should be something like if more than 2-3 batters reach then you go to Morrow).

As an aside, I will say that I don’t think that warming up Maeda, which Dave Cameron mentions, is all that big of a deal. Maeda has thrown only 5 pitches in this series (Game 1), and those are the only in-game pitches that he’s thrown since October 9.

John Autin
8 years ago

On a tangent … The way Maddon stuck with Hendricks last night reflects the sharp loss of confidence in his bullpen since last year.

Last night, in a virtual “must-win” game, Joe made these non-moves:
— Letting Hendricks bat with 2 out and 2 on in the home 4th, 2-1. (Hendricks is a slightly worse hitter than most pitchers.)
— Letting him face Bellinger in the top of the 5th, down 3-1 with a man on 3rd/1 out, despite 2 loud hits in the inning.
— Letting him start the 6th with that same 3-1 deficit.

Now look at the short hooks in 2016:
— LDS game 2, pulled Hendricks leading 4-2 top-4th, 2 out/1 on.
— LDS game 4, pinch-hit for Lackey with 2 out/none on in top-5th, trailing 3-1.
— LCS game 4, pulled Lackey leading 5-0 bottom-5th, 2 on/no out.
— WS game 3, pulled Hendricks leading 1-0 top-5th, bags full/no out.
— WS game 7, pulled Hendricks leading 5-1 bottom-5th, 2 out/1 on.

The Cubs bullpen wasn’t great last postseason — 4.09 RA/9, 1.30 WHIP, 2.4 SO/BB — but Joe didn’t hesitate to use them.

Hendricks is a fine pitcher, but he was on a short leash last year (when he had a 2.13 ERA), even with the lead. This year, on a night when he’d already served 2 HRs and 2 other XBH, I can’t imagine he faces Bellinger in the 5th, or starts the 6th, except for the miserable performance of Cubs RPs so far.

stever20Member since 2017
8 years ago

On the top 50 manager errors this postseason, I don’t know that this decision even cracks the list quite frankly.

Joe Mannix
8 years ago

Here’s another one I didn’t get: Why didn’t they send Puig home from third on the preceding fly out to right? Two outs, pitcher due up, leading 3-1, and Heyward was on his heels. Weak sauce.

BipMember since 2016
8 years ago

Now, I don’t think this was the strategy, and if it was, it would have been a bad strategy, because you cannot ever really know what is going on in a player’s head, but the effect seemed to be to play a mind game with Carl Jr. It was pretty strange how he threw four straight balls to the pitcher and then struck out on three pitches the Dodgers’ offensive player of the game. Someone who is psychic (which Roberts is not) might have seen that Carl was putting a lot of pressure on himself, and that having to face the pitcher with the bases loaded might give him a momentary bout of the yips. So what was actually a mediocre strategy from a certain angle makes it look like Roberts is playing 3D chess while we’re expecting checkers.

Adam SMember since 2016
8 years ago

I think you’re overthinking this.

I think Roberts, like many managers/coaches, is risk adverse. Not only adverse to the risk of losing — thus using his two best relievers in low leverage — but risk of coming under attack from the media fans. Easy to explain letting Darvish bat only having thrown 70 pitches; harder to explain pulling him if the bullpen gives up runs.

As well, I think managers are generally poor with in-game strategy, and this is magnified in the post season where optimal strategy is different (get to the bullpen, take advantage of all the off days). Maddon had terrible bullpen management in games 6 and 7 of the World Series but since the Cubs won that talk faded away.

soaktherichMember since 2016
8 years ago

If Roberts was worried enough to use Jansen up 6-1 in the 9th, how would a Granderson gapper salt the game away at 6-1 in the 6th?
Also, I disagree with the logic of your tool, the half-run-per-inning that Granderson represented. I would simply compare OBPs because Darvish doesn’t need to hit a gapper to get turn the lineup over and keep the inning going (the idea of which is contained in the runs-per-inning metric). He just needs to get on base. So the trade is Granderson’s OBP (.323 this season) vs. Darvish’s (approximated as .152) or about a 17% lower chance of getting on and continuing the inning, in order to get 3-4 more outs out of Darvish, which represented 33-44% of the remaining outs. (Plus, he was dealing.) I’m not exactly sure how those things equate but I think it’s a more useful way to look at it.

showerdeer
8 years ago

I’m assuming that Roberts had an out of body experience and decided to go with it.

TolkienBard
8 years ago

This is why I like NL baseball so much more. A manager is actually forced to make these decisions and then live with the results. THere is actual strategy beyond playing matchups.

Johnston
8 years ago

We all watched a game that showed exactly why the DH rule needs to go away for good. #Strategy

carterMember since 2020
8 years ago

Darvish now has as many postseason rbis as Mike Trout in far less at bat’s. Time for a hot take.

Daniel
8 years ago
Reply to  carter

More postseason RBIs than Heyward, Baez, Zobrist, and Happ combined.

soaktherichMember since 2016
8 years ago
Reply to  Daniel

Daniel, Zobrist was last year’s World Series MVP; I’m guessing he had some RBIs.

Daniel
8 years ago
Reply to  soaktherich

I meant for the 2017 postseason. Baez went and ruined the hot take last night though.

Daniel
8 years ago

If it’s stupid and it works then it’s not stupid. Or more accurately, if it’s stupid and it works, then it’s still stupid and you got lucky.

ashlandateam
8 years ago

I’m an NL fan, but this play ‘proves’ the DH should be abolished every bit as much as a pitcher injury at the plate or on the bases ‘proves’ the DH should be adopted universally. It doesn’t.

This play was fun and entertaining and memorable. But it’s one play that doesn’t outweigh too many other plays to count that are in no way memorable (or are memorable for the wrong reasons).

tbjfan
8 years ago

The article places too much emphasis on expectation. Expectation is an average situation. The NLCS is not. RE and WE are great tools, but they should be seen more as a guide than as the end-all be-all.

Roger McDowell Hot Foot
8 years ago
Reply to  tbjfan

This is more or less covered in the article, but almost all the playoff-specific factors you’d adjust for seem to make the case for leaving Darvish in (or for Roberts’ pitching management in general) even worse. Third time through the order against a very good lineup, the Cubs’ run expectancy the next half-inning should be even higher; with Darvish hitting against a pitcher as good as Edwards, the Dodgers’ should be even lower.

JayMember since 2023
8 years ago

Tactically it wasn’t very smart, but there’s a gamesmanship aspect that might have played into it. There’s a chance that Roberts was just trying to get into Edwards’ and Maddon’s heads. He knew Edwards had been struggling badly with control and he knew that Maddon had been fed up with his bullpen. If Darvish goes up and strikes out, no huge loss. Granderson was likely to make an out anyway. But on the off chance that Darvish works the walk, you basically crush the soul of Edwards, Maddon and the entirety of Wrigley Field simultaneously.

And as a casual observer with no rooting interest, you gotta love how sending Darvish up there instantly turned this into “baseball as a morality play”. Edwards has been confident to the point of being disrespectful in interviews, despite doing very little to back it up on the mound. Now despite all that cockiness he’s earned him the ignominy of being the first pitcher in 40 years to issue a bases-loaded walk to a pitcher in the playoffs. And he did it in an extremely crucial moment for his team, and on 4 straight pitches.

Tactically maybe it was not the smartest move. But when you add the chance of getting inside the Cubs heads and the chance of dishing out some humble pie to Edwards I think it might have been tough for Roberts to resist.

Psychic... Powerless...
8 years ago
Reply to  Jay

What did he say that was disrespectful?

ChippersJonesing
8 years ago

It only ends up not making sense because he ended up using key bullpen pieces anyway. If he hadn’t I’d think giving his, very likely, overtaxed bullpen a rest would have been an excellent idea, but since that didn’t hsppen… shrug emoji.

DavePomerantz
8 years ago

I think leaving Darvish in to try to save bullets from Jansen in particular, but also Morrow and Maeda is perfectly defensible on the 1st night of a back-to-back-to-back stretch. I think the mistake was using Morrow and then going to Jansen too quickly, and I wonder if the 8th inning of the ALCS game had something to do with it. Recency bias is a strong motivating factor for a risk-averse manager.

Dave TMember since 2016
8 years ago
Reply to  DavePomerantz

To your final point about recency bias, Roberts had also sat in the dugout for the prior two games watching the Cubs’ relievers give up 6 runs in 6 2/3 innings as they used the “not Wade Davis” parts of their bullpen.

Meanwhile, all the relievers that he’d used had done the job to combine for 8 scoreless innings, but the trio of Jansen, Morrow, and Maeda accounted for 6 of those innings. The other two combined innings were 1-2 batter appearances focused on platoon advantages and generally avoiding the more dangerous hitters in the Cubs’ lineup.

Roger McDowell Hot Foot
8 years ago

I agree and I’ve been surprised how little second-guessing of Roberts’ bullpen management I’ve seen so far. When you have that many talented guys to call on, it’s borderline indefensible to be riding two of them so hard with a big lead, up two games already.

Dave TMember since 2016
8 years ago

Good point.

I think it’s nothing more than that, in a lot of the media, the second-guessers only come out when the move fails, getting it exactly backward by focusing on after the fact results rather than before the fact process and expectations. This site is of course one of the notable exceptions to that line of thinking.

If either Morrow or Jansen gives up a key run to lose tonight’s game, then I think that you will see some commentary on the Game 3 bullpen usage from sources like ESPN and the post-game shows.

jrl133Member since 2025
8 years ago

The Darvish AB was a reflection of Dodger confidence…it was an unconventional play from a team playing with house money…maddon did it all the time last year like when he put Travis Wood in LF for one hitter so he could use an RP for an out or two without losing his LHP…helps to have a weak minded Carl Edwards to play off of