Why Six Years for Pablo Sandoval Isn’t Crazy

Pablo Sandoval is perhaps the most interesting free agent of the offseason. He’s both good and fairly young for a free agent these days, so there’s an argument to be made that his contract might not carry him very far into the steepest of the aging curve, which is when teams have often gotten burned with big money deals. Of course, he’s also a big guy, with the body type of the kind of player who often ages poorly, and he’s spent a significant chunk of time on the DL during his tenure with the Giants.

This makes him a bit of a unique free agent, as you can argue that he’s either lower risk (due to age) or higher risk (due to body type), depending on which one you one put more stock in. And both arguments have their merit. Projecting future playing time is difficult enough for a normal player, much less a guy on the extreme ends of two variables that offer different conclusions.

So, it seems inevitable that whatever Sandoval signs for, it’s going to be a polarizing contract. Especially if he lands the six year deal that he’s seeking. From his agent, Gustavo Vazquez, via Henry Schulman:

“Pablo is 28,” Vasquez said. “He is still young. Maybe if he was 30 or 31 we could talk about four or five years. But he’s 28. He deserves more than that.”

The immediate reaction is to imagine what a 34-year-old Sandoval might look like, and shrink back from the idea of guaranteeing real money to, as Grant Brisbee put it, a “less athletic David Wells.” The odds of Sandoval still being a highly productive player in 2020 are pretty slim, and a six year deal would make it very likely that the signing team would have paid a hefty premium for a pinch-hitter or part-time platoon guy by the time the contract ends. However, in and of itself, that doesn’t make a six year contract for Sandoval a bad idea.

You Aren't a FanGraphs Member
It looks like you aren't yet a FanGraphs Member (or aren't logged in). We aren't mad, just disappointed.
We get it. You want to read this article. But before we let you get back to it, we'd like to point out a few of the good reasons why you should become a Member.
1. Ad Free viewing! We won't bug you with this ad, or any other.
2. Unlimited articles! Non-Members only get to read 10 free articles a month. Members never get cut off.
3. Dark mode and Classic mode!
4. Custom player page dashboards! Choose the player cards you want, in the order you want them.
5. One-click data exports! Export our projections and leaderboards for your personal projects.
6. Remove the photos on the home page! (Honestly, this doesn't sound so great to us, but some people wanted it, and we like to give our Members what they want.)
7. Even more Steamer projections! We have handedness, percentile, and context neutral projections available for Members only.
8. Get FanGraphs Walk-Off, a customized year end review! Find out exactly how you used FanGraphs this year, and how that compares to other Members. Don't be a victim of FOMO.
9. A weekly mailbag column, exclusively for Members.
10. Help support FanGraphs and our entire staff! Our Members provide us with critical resources to improve the site and deliver new features!
We hope you'll consider a Membership today, for yourself or as a gift! And we realize this has been an awfully long sales pitch, so we've also removed all the other ads in this article. We didn't want to overdo it.

I wrote about this last year, but I think the point is worth revisiting: contracts should not be evaluated by how well a player will perform at the end of the deal. Almost every major free agent contract is going to result in the player being significantly overpaid by the end of the deal, and this is by design. In fact, teams want it this way.

Because of the time value of money, backloading contracts makes them cost less, and in baseball, teams have a far greater need for cash flow than the players do. To a player, the extra money is mostly just a status symbol, the measure that they use to feel properly respected, and the timing of when it is paid out is of secondary importance. For a team, however, moving $5 million from this year’s budget to a point in the future can create the ability to build a better roster in the short-term, capitalizing on the best years of the expensive free agent they ponied up for to begin with.

Backloaded contracts allow teams to give out larger total contracts — which players like — because they act as a kind of no-interest financing. Teams can essentially borrow from themselves by pushing the most expensive parts of a contract into the future, even though that means guaranteeing that the player is going to be drastically overpaid by the end of the deal. It’s a trade-off teams are willing to make, however, as pushing the largest salaries to the end of the deal often means that another front office — and sometimes, another owner — will have to deal with the ramifications of that backloaded deal, giving the guy who gave out the contract the largest benefit without having to personally incur the cost when the deal becomes player friendly.

To evaluate a contract, you have to look at it in its entirety, not just how well the player might be expected to perform in the final years of the deal. Players can, and often do, justify almost the entire cost of a long-term contract within the first few years of a deal, allowing the transaction to be reasonable even if it ends with the player being an albatross. The way contracts are structured in MLB, free agents agree to be underpaid at the front of a deal and overpaid at the back end, and everyone is perfectly okay with this arrangement.

So giving Sandoval six years can make sense as long as the return on investment in the first few years of the deal are slanted enough in the team’s favor. In fact, a contract of any length is reasonable as long as the salaries are modified to make that length work for the team. Even a ten year deal for Sandoval could work out for a team so long as he was only asking for $10-$12 million per year in salary.

The relationship between contract length and annual salary is a sliding scale; as one goes up, the other goes down. Just for fun, here’s a table of the annual salary of something like what I’d offer Sandoval based on different contract lengths between 1 and 10 years.

Years Contract Marginal Salary
1 $24,500,000 $24,500,000
2 $46,550,000 $21,550,000
3 $65,843,750 $19,293,750
4 $82,050,500 $16,206,750
5 $94,813,316 $12,762,816
6 $103,747,287 $8,933,971
7 $108,437,621 $4,690,335
8 $109,437,621 $1,000,000
9 $110,437,621 $1,000,000
10 $111,437,621 $1,000,000

Those numbers are based on believing Sandoval is a +3.5 WAR player for 2015, that he’ll lose half a win of value each season, and that the price of a projected win for players of his caliber this winter will be around $7 million or so. At $7 million per win, he’d be worth about $25 million for 2015, though you could bump that up a bit to include the value of being able to make a qualifying offer again next year, so maybe he’s worth something closer to $27 or $28 million for just 2015.

As you start adding years, however, and start buying out the expectation of reduced production, you simultaneously reduce the marginal amount of dollars you’d add to compensate for the lower expected performance. Instead of $25 million for the first year, he only gets $22 million for the second year, $19 million for the third, and so on. By the seventh year, when Sandoval would project as a fringy bench player, you’re adding just $5 million more in guaranteed money, and if he really decided he wanted a deal of 8-10 years in length, I’d just stick $1 million apiece on each year to reflect the fact that I’d expect him to produce no value in those seasons.

Realistically, though, there’s no real value to Sandoval asking for additional years at something just barely above the league minimum, so the longest deal he’d likely consider under this scenario would be seven years, and even signing up for that seventh year at $5 million probably isn’t all that appealing. But that sixth year nets him an additional $9 million in guaranteed money, and that’s probably starting to get to the point at which the additional guarantee is worth enough to get him to give up one more year of free agency.

The point here is that all these contract values are essentially the same price. If you’d take Sandoval for 1/$25M, or 2/$47M, then 3/$64M, 4/$82M, or 5/$95M are essentially the same contract. Yes, you’re taking on more risk and buying out his decline years, but you’re doing so at ever decreasing marginal salaries, so that the expected return on investment is consistent throughout each length of the deal. And the same goes for 6/$104M. If you’d do 5/$95M — and I think a lot of teams probably would — then the sixth year at $9 million in marginal money shouldn’t be seen as any scarier, really.

Now, teams mostly just skip over all of this stuff by focusing on the range of years that make sense for a given player type. Above average players that fall a bit short of stardom, as Sandoval does, get 5-7 years, so teams won’t even bother with the shorter or longer offers, most likely. The winning bidder will likely be the one who extends the most marginal money on the sixth year, and in the end, I’d expect Sandoval to sign for something like $110 million over six years, as someone will stretch a bit beyond the projected value.

But when they do, we shouldn’t freak out that a team was too dumb to realize that the 2020 version of Pablo Sandoval is going to suck. They know that. Pablo Sandoval probably even knows that, which is why his agent is trying to get him a guaranteed contract for that year in advance. Adding in an additional year when Sandoval is unlikely to be productive doesn’t make the contract a mistake, so long as the price of the deal comes down to account for the added length.

A sixth year for Sandoval is very likely to be an albatross, just like the first year for Sandoval is very likely to be a bargain. He won’t be worth $18 million in 2020, but he’ll be worth more than $18 million next year, and the goal for both sides is to just make sure that the up-front discount is close to equalizing the end-of-contract premium.

Which is why we can’t just reflexively judge a contract by how many years the player gets. As long as the price moves in tandem with the years, there’s nothing wrong with adding dead money to the end of a deal. Contracts that end badly aren’t always mistakes. They’re usually designed that way on purpose.





Dave is the Managing Editor of FanGraphs.

109 Comments
Oldest
Newest Most Voted
Brian
11 years ago

Is there really so much money in baseball that the $ per WAR goes up a full million per year? Weren’t we using 6 mil last off season?

Hank
11 years ago
Reply to  Dave Cameron

This site appears to be using ~5.3mil for the 2014 WAR figure (from the value pages)… are you forecasting an ~20% increase to 6.5mil this winter? That seems high.

Or is that a median vs mean thing?

Spa City
11 years ago
Reply to  Hank

And it will be $8 million next year for no apparent reason. The inflation rate with baseball money seems to be 20% per year.

Michael Cuddyer
11 years ago
Reply to  Hank

Right now the going rate is about $11M/WAR.

KCDaveInLA
11 years ago

Because with the money he gets, he can afford a Weight Watchers plan.

Avattoir
11 years ago
Reply to  KCDaveInLA

Always with the fat jokes. He’s BIG BONED! If he melted off 50 pounds, he’d be weak as a kitten.

Spencer
11 years ago
Reply to  Avattoir

Big boned isn’t really a thing. He could stand to be leaner.

Briks
11 years ago
Reply to  Spencer

Big boned isn’t a thing? All human beings have the same bone structure?

Brian
11 years ago

> If you’d take Sandoval for 1/$25M, or 2/$47M, then 3/$64M, 4/$82M, or 5/$95M are essentially the same contract.

Not really. 1/$25M is essentially the same as 2/$47M only if the second year is an option. You’re guaranteeing him $22M the next year based on your projected WAR and projected $/WAR formula. If he’d sign for $22M for one year for 2016, the present value of that year is much less because of the risk of injury or other decline during the entirety of 2015.

I think the general premise of your article holds true:

> As long as the price moves in tandem with the years, there’s nothing wrong with adding dead money to the end of a deal. Contracts that end badly aren’t always mistakes. They’re usually designed that way on purpose.

But the justification you set forth in the article is too mechanical and a little bit divorced from the reality of utility and how we make decisions.

There are factors on long term contracts which make them fit in the $/WAR curve that fangraphs is so fond of insisting is a law (it is not) but there is more to it than simply calculating $/WAR per year and calling it a day. You touch on just one of them briefly in the article, a potential future qualifying offer. I think that risk/security (on both the team side and player side) are huge factors unaccounted for in your math.

Avattoir
11 years ago
Reply to  Brian

… altho, it might be worth remembering that this is BASEBALL we’re talking here, not life-and-death economics for ordinary folk.

jpg
11 years ago
Reply to  Brian

“There are factors on long term contracts which make them fit in the $/WAR curve that fangraphs is so fond of insisting is a law (it is not) but there is more to it than simply calculating $/WAR per year and calling it a day.”

Please provide links where authors have made this claim, because I’ve never seen this “law” you speak of. I’ve yet to see analysis on this site alongs the lines of “Well based on projections they’ll be paying $8.5M per win so it’s a terrible contract, end of story” nor “They’re only paying $5M per win so it’s definitely a bargain” here.

This same site has produced articles that show that bat-only players, namely first basemen, and relief pitchers are overpaid on a per win basis on the open market. Players who accumulate most of their value with the glove are underpaid on the same basis. These aren’t groundbreaking discoveries. Every author here acknowledges that draft pick compensation, team needs, place on the win curve, finances and a host of other variables need to be taken into account when judging whether a free agent contract was a good or bad deal.

Brian
11 years ago
Reply to  jpg

> “Well based on projections they’ll be paying $8.5M per win so it’s a terrible contract, end of story” nor “They’re only paying $5M per win so it’s definitely a bargain” here.

You’ve never seen this?

Maybe they don’t say “end of story” or “definitely” but contracts are graded on $/WAR.

I’m not saying that’s a stupid way to do it, there certainly is a lot of value to the $/WAR view of things, but if that leads you to the conclusion that a 1/25 contract and 2/47 contract are the *same*, you’re in error.

A 2/47 contract is not the same as a 1/25 contract + a 1/22 contract next year.

Costanza
11 years ago
Reply to  Brian

Isn’t the risk/security stuff already priced in to the model? It seems like the model is based on previous signings, so I would have to think there are softer factors included in the model, even if they aren’t explicitly broken out.

Schilling and Pence
11 years ago

Excellent observations on an often misunderstood point. I think it is worth considering the player’s side of the equation: if we ignore players residing in Monaco or the Cayman Islands, extending the life of the contract and spreading payments over time means lower income taxes in any given year. I would imagine that the time value of money is quickly subsumed by the taxes saved when the payouts are somewhat smaller over a longer period of time, even if they add to the same amount in total.

Stank Asten
11 years ago

I believe the highest tax bracket begins at ~$400,000, so it shouldn’t make a difference to players whether they get $500,000 or $20 mil per year, as far as their income tax bracket goes. Of course the tax code may change drastically in the future, but I doubt the players are counting on that.
Also you have to pay income tax whether you live in Monaco or Milwaukee, if you earn your money in Milwaukee.

Anon21
11 years ago
Reply to  Stank Asten

I think this is right, although you also have to incorporate expectations about the future direction of high-income tax rates.

skippyballer486
11 years ago
Reply to  Stank Asten

Stank, there is another consideration, which is that income tax grades apply to marginal income above that amount. Thus there is a very real difference between earning $600,000 a year for five years or earning $3 million in one year. In scenario 1 you will be taxed about $168,000 less than in scenario 2 (at current tax rates).

However, smart investing can still make scenario 2 preferable. If you can earn a return rate of 6.5% compounding twice annually, or 7.5% compounding once annually (doable with some risk, considering government bonds have been at 5.7% and the stock market at 10% annually since 1926) you will be breaking about even over four years. Do any better than that and the $3 million lump sum will be better.

Jason B
11 years ago

“The odds of Sandoval still being a highly productive player in 2020 are pretty slim …”

I see what you did there…

Avattoir
11 years ago
Reply to  Jason B

Fat jokes are so facile.

Ruki Motomiya
11 years ago
Reply to  Avattoir

I hear they’re a big problem.

Jason B
11 years ago
Reply to  Ruki Motomiya

Well Panda will collect a fat paycheck regardless.

He’s in line for quite a hefty raise.

Atreyu Jones
11 years ago

Good article. I often see people saying “I would give so-and-so a x-year deal, but I wouldn’t do a x+1-year deal,” and I wonder how they can even form an opinion without knowing the respective dollar amounts.

bob
11 years ago
Reply to  Atreyu Jones

except one problem with that is the “dead weight” problem where past deals place strong limitations on what you can do in the present. Thus getting sandoval for year 8 isn’t just counting past value it’s counting how salary limitations with that will force you to make other moves to keep payroll under control. That’s the implicit assumption behind that link of thought. Think of what would have happened if the royals were paying a ryan howard 15/20 million this year (in a world where howard’s contract was initially a good one) or an a-rod 25-30 mil.

skippyballer486
11 years ago
Reply to  bob

Well, presumably they would have been better in those past seasons, thus building a bigger fan base and earning more revenue, so that they can afford to pay him that money now.

They could just put the savings from back-loading the contract in the bank and wait to give it to him and they’d still be turning a profit on the deal thanks to interest. I fail to see why that’s a big problem.

Giants Dynasty
11 years ago

I’m a Giants fan and I hope we don’t resign Sandoval at his asking price.
Would prefer Headley + Andrew Miller + Nori Aoki with that money.

Matthew TobinMember since 2016
11 years ago
Reply to  Giants Dynasty

Yeah, the problem with Sandoval’s asking price is that it makes players that are just as good,if not better, in Headley or HanRam values.

I mean Sandoval wants Ryan Zimmermman money without being elite like Ryan Zimmerman was.

Jason B
11 years ago
Reply to  Matthew Tobin

And Ryan Zimmerman has broken apart in the last couple of years, so you can see how well that worked for the Nats (n=1 and all, but still)

Anon21
11 years ago
Reply to  Matthew Tobin

Surely Hanley’s looking for more than the figures that have been floated for Sandoval?

brendan
11 years ago
Reply to  Giants Dynasty

this. but correct to Headley + Miller + Aoki + draft pick

Matthew TobinMember since 2016
11 years ago

I understand your point, but the problem is simply the other options on the market. Headley is a better according to the projections and can probably stick at 3rd long term. He is also asking for a lot less money. The crowd sees HanRam and Sandoval getting similar contracts, and I would still rather have HanRam at a higher price.

Sandoval is fat, has zero plate discipline and a skill set I’m not convinced will age well.

Hank
11 years ago

He won’t be worth $18 million in 2020, but he’ll be worth more than $18 million next year

Pablo Sandoval has average ~2.6WAR over the last 3 years. Is it really a given and highly likely he’ll be worth more than 18mil next year? He’s exceeded 3 WAR just twice in his career.

There’s a chance he will be worth more than 18mil, but according to your value pages he was worth 16.6mil this year, 11.6mil last year and 11.6mil the year before. Even accounting for some inflation it doesn’t seem like a slam dunk that the first year will be the bargain you make it out to be.

Part of the problem with this analysis is their is a bit of confirmation bias as when you only compare it to large contracts you are using an inflated $/WAR figure – that’s fine for forecasting what teams might be willing to pay, but I don’t think that it is sound analysis to use that inflated figure to assess value. You are concluding compared to other big contracts it might be OK… that doesn’t mean the contract is OK.

Avattoir
11 years ago
Reply to  Hank

I wonder how relevant ‘regular’ baseball analytics are in considering the peculiar expectations that pertain to the Giants: be JUST good enough to make MLB’s playoffs, then go all magical and win everything, in the context of competing against teams that operate off entirely off those ‘regular baseball analytics.

Pirates Hurdles
11 years ago
Reply to  Avattoir

I think you are assuming a skill in randomness. Its not like the Giants knew MadBum would be ridiculous for a month in their 2014 team planner.

Pike
11 years ago

They essentially follow the underpants gnome strategy:

Phase 1: Collect players that are just good enough to get us to the playoffs
Phase 2:
Phase 3: PROFIT

Ebenezer
11 years ago
Reply to  Avattoir

The Giants didn’t try to “just make the playoffs” 2010 or 2014, even though they narrowly got in both years. But they did do a very good job in those years of finding good replacements for players with injuries (and in 2012, Melky Cabrera after he was busted for steroids). While there was some luck involved, the team positioned themselves skillfully for the playoff run, and that doesn’t contradict sabermetric analysis.

In 2014, San Francisco tried different lineups to counter the injuries of Scutaro, Cain, Belt, Pagan and Morse, the continued decline of Lincecum and a bleak period where Romo lost his job at closer. They played Hicks, Adrianza, Duffy, Uggla(!) and Panik at second before going with Panik. Once it was clear Pagan back wouldn’t allow him to continue, they shifted Blanco to center and settled on Ishikawa in left, starting him there the last week of the season. With Belt returning just before the season’s end, their eight starting position players had wRC+ ranging from 102 to 144, and those starters made for a strong defense as well.

As far as their pitching, the Giants acquired Peavy after Cain’s season-ending surgery, and put spot-started Petit in the rotation for an ineffective Lincecum. In the playoffs, Bumgarner was incredible, Petit pitched much like he did relieving in the regular season, and their top four relievers were strong.

As others have stated, Bochy managed differently in the playoffs than during the regular season. Hudson, Peavy, and Vogelsong had a good game or two, then were not impressive – Bochy gave them an early hook when appropriate. As Dave and others have said, Bochy made smart moves that gave the Giants an extra advantage in a close series with the Royals, and series with the Nationals and Cardinals where the margin for error was rather small.

Pirates Hurdles
11 years ago
Reply to  Hank

This was my 1st thought too, Panda isn’t good enough to make up the deal value in the first few years.

Deelron
11 years ago
Reply to  Hank

This, why exactly would we assume he’s a 3.5 win player when he hasn’t pulled that off in quite some time?

Costanza
11 years ago
Reply to  Deelron

For his career, he’s been a 3.5 WAR player / 600 PA. His two major injuries (off the top of my head) were both fairly strange ones (hamate injury, I believe?) that he has supposedly limited his exposure to that by changing his bat grip.

I’m comfortable saying he’s a 3-4 WAR player for the next couple of years. I’d expect his defense to decline, but for him to stay mostly healthy (and I think he’s got more power than he’s showed the past 2 years).

Pirates Hurdles
11 years ago
Reply to  Costanza

2.6, 2.3, 3.0 WAR over 3 years does not a 3-4 win player make. In his 4 “full” seasons he has 11.8 total war, again 3 WAR player. Paying full value for 3 wins in year 1 isn’t creating surplus value.

ElJimador
11 years ago
Reply to  Costanza

His 2 major injuries were broken hamates (1 in each hand) and not only did those injuries cost him significant playing time in ’11 and ’12 they also sapped his power for several weeks after he came back.

As for limiting his exposure to the same injury going forward, the hamates were removed so he has no more to break.

Deelron
11 years ago
Reply to  Costanza

So what’s sapped his power since 2012?

While the hamate bones are a fun story, he actually slugged .447 in 2012 and .552 in 2011. The last two seasons he’s slugged .417 and .415. He’s just not hitting doubles and HR at the same rate he did before, particularly home runs.

He’s a 3 win player now (he just doesn’t hit HRs at the same rate he did when he was actually hitting the ball hard), and there’s nothing wrong with that, but there’s no reason to bump him up to 3.5 wins as the article suggests.

pitnick
11 years ago
Reply to  Costanza

I think the article is just grabbing the Steamer projection, which is assuming a similar BABIP, K% and BB% to what he’s done the last few years, but with his ISO jumping back up some (though still not nearly to what it was in 2011).

skippyballer486
11 years ago
Reply to  Costanza

If you can do better than Steamer and ZiPS and other projection services at predicting players, GREAT! Start publishing your projections. Otherwise . . . trust the projections.

Cool Lester Smooth
11 years ago
Reply to  Costanza

Do the projections take into account the wear and tear that Sandoval’s weight has incurred upon his body over the 24 years or so he’s been engaging in athletics?

Or do they just take his stat line, plug it into a formula and give us whatever that formula spits out?

That is, would someone built like Dustin Pedroia with the exact same stat sheet receive the exact same projection?

Spencer JonesMember since 2020
11 years ago
Reply to  Hank

This isn’t about Sandoval at all, it’s about the general principle, whether you actually believe he’s be worth 18 million in the first year or not is kind of irrelevant, Dave is simply using Sandoval as an example to make a larger point.

Pirates Hurdles
11 years ago
Reply to  Spencer Jones

oh agreed, the larger point is valid, but his title is about Sandoval getting 6 years.

Jason B
11 years ago

Larger point.

*snicker*

jpg
11 years ago
Reply to  Hank

I agree. The only reason Steamer is projecting him for close to four wins for 2015 is the 5.5 WAR year he put up four years ago.

skippyballer486
11 years ago
Reply to  jpg

“The only reason thinks he’ll be good is that time not that long ago that he was awesome. (And also those times recently when he was decent).”

Seems . . . pretty reasonable to me.

Shayce
11 years ago
Reply to  Hank

“You are concluding compared to other big contracts it might be OK… that doesn’t mean the contract is OK.”
Of course it does if you’re not considering any other factors besides $/WAR. Having a 4 WAR player on your roster is more valuable than having two 2 WAR player. Thus, teams pay a certain premium.

David
11 years ago

While I think the point about teams preferring to defer dollars to the end of long-term contracts, it’s worth noting that teams that doubt MLB’s ability to get the same revenue from future national TV contracts might start factoring future decreased revenue into contracts that extend into 2022 and beyond. Doubt that impacts planning this winter, but might start to be a factor next winter.

David
11 years ago

While I think the point about teams preferring to defer dollars to the end of long-term contracts is true now, it’s worth noting that teams that doubt MLB’s ability to get the same revenue from the next national TV contracts might start factoring future decreased revenue into contracts that extend into 2022 and beyond. Doubt that impacts planning this winter, but might start to be a factor next winter.
Also, all teams should expect the next national TV contracts to bring in less revenue.

DL80
11 years ago

This is a really good way of explaining it to someone like me who hadn’t thought of it this way before.

I wonder if the pain of an albatross deal at the end has additional risks, though? If he gets 6/$110m, I’m going to assume it’s not actually slated as $25/$22/$20/$18/etc. (though that would be really cool to see). So that $18m in year 6 only feels like less if baseball revenues and salaries keep going up. What if they don’t, and that $18m becomes more like 20% (or more) of a team’s budget instead of expecting that budgets will increase substantially? That seems like a different kind of risk than can be easily dealt with in 2014, obviously.

But I don’t think it’s a given that future TV deals keep getting bigger, that attendance keeps growing (or stays the same), and that TV ratings and ad revenue stay consistent.

There might also be negative value with an albatross contract in terms of attendance (the Phillies’ attendance has dropped precipitously in the past 5 years, though they have multiple bad contracts), perception from other players who don’t want to play there, etc.

I really wonder if a team or player would be willing to do a 25/22/20/18/16/etc. deal ever? I know that inflation and the present vs. future value of money makes it essentially work this way, but only if revenues keep going up (which I’m incredibly skeptical about).

Doug Lampert
11 years ago
Reply to  DL80

The contract money is fairly flat or even higher on the last few years; this makes sense because the team wants to push money out and the player mostly just wants lots of money.

Owners of BB teams usually own other businesses too. If the owner can manage his company pension fund vaguely competently then he’s capable of charging a future expense to a current activity and can handle the idea that this year’s (internal) budget needs to have a charge against the baseball team for future expenditures and then in the future give a credit to pay off that contract without reducing the rest of the team’s spending.

Basically, this is a loan to himself that gives additional liquidity at little or no cost. Which is why owners like this sort of deal so much.

He only looses payroll flexibility in the future if you assume that owners don’t understand assets and liabilities and budgeting and savings, or if you assume the team will be hitting luxury tax or some other salary cap in the future.

Darth Stout
11 years ago

I just have a hard time picturing a normal aging curve for Pablo. This is a completely different analysis if you assume his skills absolutely collapse by year 3 of that hypothetical six year contract.

Cool Lester Smooth
11 years ago
Reply to  Darth Stout

Yup. I think he’s a 1B with a 110 wRC+ and bad knees by age 31.

Costanza
11 years ago

Are you aware he’s always been a plus defender, even with his weight? Do you expect that to just stop?

Darth Stout
11 years ago
Reply to  Costanza

Actually yes, I do. I don’t expect him to stay healthy, and I don’t believe he’ll maintain even his current weight for long.

Cool Lester Smooth
11 years ago
Reply to  Costanza

Yes, I very much do.

I can only assume that you missed both the word “bad” and the word “knees.”

CK
11 years ago

The issue isn’t his projected defense. If you watch him play 3B, he doesn’t do a ton of running. His defense at 3B mostly consists of rapid reaction time, excellent hand-eye coordination, and a good arm to first. I (and whichever team signs him) should be most worried about the overweight players graph when it comes to his hitting and baserunning, which will affect even AL teams if they decide to DH him or any team that plays him at 1B (or reverts him back to his former position of catcher). According to that overweight players graph, his hitting/baserunning will decline and he will be much more susceptible to injuries, which will hurt any team that re-signs him. I’m not sure why there’s this false narrative going around that he will automatically be worth more to AL teams because they can DH him. His defense at 3B is clearly not the issue, even moving forward.

CK
11 years ago
Reply to  CK

Whoops, should’ve proofread. *I am most worried and whichever team signs him should be most worried

Cool Lester Smooth
11 years ago
Reply to  CK

…until his knees give out.

You know, the part of his body that is solely responsible for his quick-twitch ability at 3B.

CK
11 years ago
Reply to  CK

And the proof that his knees will eventually give out is where exactly?

Spa City
11 years ago

Why should a current GM care about Panda’s contract 6 years from now? Sandoval will be some other GM’s problem to solve in 6 years.

Avattoir
11 years ago
Reply to  Spa City

So…Sabean’s been the Giants’ GM since 1996, 18 seasons; and you’re suggesting that it’s AT LEAST probable that he will NOT be the Giants’ GM going into the 2020 season.

He was born in 1956. In 2020, he’ll turn 64; and he really seems to like the job he’s in right now. But hey: maybe you know something the rest of us don’t.

Billy
11 years ago
Reply to  Spa City

I see what you’re getting at with regards to the fact that being a GM is not a job with a lot of long term security, but I doubt most GMs think this way. I mean, they’re trying to do a good job, right? And doing a good job means they’ll likely keep their job, right? They have no intent of failing.

I say this as someone who considers himself a plan A kind of guy. As a rule in life, for better or worse, I tend to prefer not to reroute my efforts into plan B if it is going to make plan A less likely. Ultimately, plan A is the goal, and a life full of plan B isn’t all that worthwhile to me anyway.

Mike Green
11 years ago

I imagine Sandoval as a DH within the next 3 years or so. He probably has more value to an American League team for that reason.

ReuschelCakes
11 years ago
Reply to  Mike Green

He has positive defensive value at 3B now and should have positive defensive value at 1B for some time – and starting at a wRC+ of 110-120 doesn’t get you a DH out in the decline curve either…. there are zero AL teams that would be willing to pay anywhere close to this if they believed Sandoval was going to be a full-time DH in 3yrs…

Deelron
11 years ago
Reply to  Mike Green

There are already plenty of guys who can hit slightly above league average who could play DH for minimal salaries, the ability to slide him over there might have some value in keeping an older Sandoval fresh but it’d have little actual benefit for the team.

Mr Punch
11 years ago
Reply to  Mike Green

I think this is a significant point. He could get hurt and lose all value, like Mo Vaughn, but he could continue to hit and DH. What would David Ortiz’s year-by-year projected value have looked like in 2004, when he was 28? He’s easily been worth a million the past couple of years.

jpg
11 years ago
Reply to  Mr Punch

Yeah but Papi bloomed late to a degree that nobody could have foreseen. He had his first big year at 28 so the projections were much lower for him at the time going forward. He put up a wRC+ north of 150 six times after turning 30. Sandoval has yet to do it even once. And when you factor in age related decline, Sandoval will probably be closer to a league average hitter six years from now which would make him sub replacement level as a DH.

Cool Lester Smooth
11 years ago
Reply to  Mr Punch

Sandoval has established himself as a 115 wRC+ guy over the last 3 seasons.

Sir Barrold
11 years ago
Reply to  Mike Green

This seems like a key point in comparing him to other “heavy players,” like those in the linked Prince Fielder article. I don’t know who’s on that list, but I bet Sandoval gets a lot more of his total value from defense than most of them. It seems reasonable to expect defense to fall off in faster than offense, and thus Pablo to fall off faster in value than the list average (I bet there is also really high variance in the list, but that’s another issue).

This is especially true when he has to move and loses the positional adjustment. For instance, based on a quick glance at the leaders here, if he hits at about the rate he has the last two years (i.e. no offensive decline at all), as a DH he’s a 0.5 WAR player at best.

BRH
11 years ago
Reply to  Sir Barrold

But there’s fat, and then there’s Prince Fielder fat. Sandoval looks like Kate Moss next to Prince Fielder.

CK
11 years ago
Reply to  Mike Green

The issue isn’t his projected defense. If you watch him play 3B, he doesn’t do a ton of running. His defense at 3B mostly consists of rapid reaction time, excellent hand-eye coordination, and a good arm to first. I am most worried and whichever team signs him should be most worried about the overweight players graph when it comes to his hitting and baserunning, which will affect even AL teams if they decide to DH him or any team that plays him at 1B (or reverts him back to his former position of catcher). According to that overweight players graph, his hitting/baserunning will decline and he will be much more susceptible to injuries, which will hurt any team that re-signs him. I’m not sure why there’s this false narrative going around that he will automatically be worth more to AL teams because they can DH him. His defense at 3B is clearly not the issue, even moving forward.

Cool Lester Smooth
11 years ago
Reply to  CK

…you do understand that quick-twitch ability declines more quickly than speed, right?

Also, when (not if) his knees give out, he won’t be able anywhere near as quick, which will leave him with no defensive value whatsoever, even at 1B.

CK
11 years ago
Reply to  CK

His hand-eye coordination will not decline. Certainly he won’t be as great a 3B, but he could still play there well into his 30’s. Also, I’m still not seeing any evidence of his knees giving out. I could say he’ll lose 100 pounds with no evidence, but I think that prediction is about as useful as claiming his knees will give out.

Marsupial Jones
11 years ago

For years I have been trying to explain to my freinds (who are admittedly much more casual fans) why it doesnt really matter if you are paying someone 25 million when he is 37 years old because if you are only paying him 10 million when he is 28-29 it all evens out. Nice to have an article to just link too now.

Although, they are all Jays fans so I think the Vernon Wells contract has just traumatized them for life. 😉

Costanza
11 years ago

Why would that deal scar your friends? Wells was paid by the Jays a total of $ million for 2008-10. During that time, they paid him under $30 million dollars.

The Angels ate the majority of that contract, to the tune of $86 million (minus $5 million paid by the Jays).

If anything, it shows that terrible contracts can be unloaded (or could be, in the fairly recent past), and fans tend to overreact when their team signs a player to a big deal. (That last sentence is also sort of the point of this post by DC.)

ReuschelCakes
11 years ago

Dave – one thing I have never understood…

Is there a MLBPA stipulation that contracts cannot decline in annual salary? Why has OAK or TAM or someone not started to try to arb this by throwing really large 1-3yr values at players and see if one of them wants to “bet on themself….”

Asked differently, if everyone in the negotiations has decided that they are willing to overpay in the future to underpay now, why not just have the contracts reflect this?

Atreyu Jones
11 years ago
Reply to  ReuschelCakes

“Is there a MLBPA stipulation that contracts cannot decline in annual salary? ”

No.

Alex Rodriguez’ current contract is one deal that was front-loaded. For any given total guaranteed amount of money, front-loading makes the contract better for the player and more costly for the team.

Brian
11 years ago
Reply to  Atreyu Jones

Besides … who doesn’t like a raise?

I’d rather get 6-7-8 per year than 7-7-6 even if the time-value is the same.

Pirates Hurdles
11 years ago
Reply to  ReuschelCakes

Dave mentions the issue with front loading (time value of money link). Basically a dollar today is worth more than a dollar next year. Since contracts are guaranteed in MLB, the player doesn’t care when the money comes and the team always prefers to defer to the future.

The second question comes down to risk, players won’t bet on themselves performing unless they have too (ex. pillow contract for an injured player). With injuries prevalent in pro sports the athletes are heavily incentivized to remove risk and take the 6 year deal.

Atreyu Jones
11 years ago

I think it’s an overstatement to say that the player doesn’t care when the money comes. Even if some players don’t understand the time value of money, their agents sure do.

Hank
11 years ago

That’s the academic/paper explanation. I don’t think that reflects the reality of baseball economics however

The reality though is most teams operate on a yearly team level payroll budget. So you aren’t actually realizing any savings by backloading the contract, it’s just flexibility – money gets shuffled to other player acquisitions. If payroll was actually cut due to the backloading, then the NPV savings might be considered real.

It’s not like teams take the dollars saved the first few years and actually invest them and get 15% return (or whatever discount rate folks want to use in the NPV calculations)

Whether Sandoval’s next contract is a flat 18mil/per or something that goes 12-24mil or a sliding scale (arbitrary #’s), the team level payroll is probably not impacted so there is no actual savings.

Anon21
11 years ago
Reply to  Hank

It just depends on the team, right? You can certainly point to teams, e.g. the Angels, that seem to have increased their player payroll as a direct result of signing several expensive players. If they hadn’t invested that money in payroll, it would presumably have been socked into Arte Moreno’s investments elsewhere. And then there are other teams that seem to spend up to a predetermined limit each year, the limit rising gradually with baseball inflation, where “savings” are illusory.

In other news
11 years ago

Cuddyer to the Mets on a 2 year deal.

Why do the Mets do things like this…

Pirates Hurdles
11 years ago
Reply to  In other news

At least it wasn’t too silly of a number for a team that could conceivably contend.

royale with cheese
11 years ago

I enjoy your work, but you’re nuts and the reason is that some of your simplifying assumptions are much too simple.

We need to consider three things:

1. Sandoval performance risk.

Is it even worthwhile to start at 3.5 WAR and linearly subtract 0.5? Isn’t it more likely that there are a range of outcomes each year, trending down over time, which are heavily influenced by playing time? But fine, let’s say that injuries are functionally random. He’s post-peak on power and post-peak on defense. Forget 6 years, where does a 31-year-old Pablo Sandoval derive his value from?

The ordering of his performance matters too, by your own admission. 5 WAR in 2015 and 3 WAR in 2016 generates more surplus value than 3 WAR in 2015 and 5 WAR in 2016. Think about that. *The most important season in a 6 year deal is season 1.* How good are we at forecasting that for a single player. With a large enough sample, our models are decent, sure. But for a single player, the error bars are pretty, pretty wide.

Plus, since WAR is heavily determined by the league environment, we’re implicitly making a guess about the league environment over the next 6 years. Will trends continue?

2. FA salary inflation.

We assume that it’s growing at 10% or so, but is it? Perhaps this rate of growth is more stochastic than deterministic.

3. Real world $ inflation. Ok, you’re right about this–the higher the better here for teams, I guess.

I mean, look–if your point is that there are GMs/owners who don’t understand rudimentary pricing/reserving, then sure, this makes sense. But 6/110MM for Pablo Sandoval can’t really be what a sage website like Fangraphs is saying is defensible.

Anon21
11 years ago

Plus, since WAR is heavily determined by the league environment, we’re implicitly making a guess about the league environment over the next 6 years. Will trends continue?

Wrong question. The relevant question is “If trends change, will they affect Pablo Sandoval differently than the baseline player (replacement-level or average-level)?”

Sir Barrold
11 years ago

While I think this is a helpful analysis, I wonder about teams that are at or near the luxury tax: these teams seem to think in terms of ‘cap hit’ more than actual amount of salary paid out in a year. Since the tax is determined based on AAV, you can’t just tack on years based on the value of that year. A team at or near the cap may be actually paying Pablo what he’s worth for year six of the six year deal you mention, but they are also taking a $17 million tax hit (and possibly paying that tax) for a useless player. This is enough to significantly impact flexibility in picking up new players for teams in that payroll group just below the NYY and LAD.

TangotigerMember since 2016
11 years ago

Dave’s structure is sound. The uncertainty is priced into the structure.

The only thing left is the assumptions.

1. A drop of 0.5 wins per year has been shown by me several years ago. It’s a good rule of thumb.

2. Whether you want to use 5%, or 7% or the historical norm of 10%, someone can make that assumption. The key point: it applies to EVERYONE. If you want to use 5% or 3%, then you won’t be able to explain ANY long-term free agent deal.

All you really have to figure out his Pablo’s starting talent for 2015. Everything else pretty much falls into place. That’s the beauty of this model, it’s so simple it actually works most of the time.

And the few times it doesn’t work? Well, that’s why these are models: they are bound to not work in some exceptional cases.

Dave’s article moves the discussion forward, unlike the 99% of the article you will read that makes no mention of any of this.

Cool Lester Smooth
11 years ago
Reply to  Tangotiger

The issue is that Pablo is almost certainly one of those exceptional cases, due to his build and skillset.

People don’t object to signing a hypothetical 28 year old third baseman with Panda’s exact statsheet to a 6 year deal. They have a problem with signing Pablo Sandoval to that deal.

Johnston
11 years ago
Reply to  Tangotiger

Howard. Pujols. Fielder.

Sandoval.

Rodney Strong
11 years ago

Capitulation. Did you take a job with the Dodgers?

Johnny
11 years ago

Sandoval is an interesting player. On the one hand he has the worst plate discipline in baseball but he also makes contact up there with players like Victor Martinez who has aged extremely well. The determining factor for me is his weight. Prince Fielder is a perfect example of signing borderline obese players when they approach 30 is a bad move. 5 years is the absolute MAX.

ElJimador
11 years ago
Reply to  Johnny

Prince Fielder was the model of durability until he suffered a hernaited disk in his neck (not typically a weight related injury). We’ll see how he does next year but it’s worth noting that he’ll be coming back from basically the same surgery that Peyton Manning had a few years ago and that certainly didn’t derail his career.

Too many people in these comments taking the Prince Fielder article as gospel without the appropriate caveats that the Jeff Zimmerman study it was based on covered only 205 players and that there are counter-examples like Tony Gwynn and Kirby Puckett who remained productive players well into their 30s. Why should we assume that Prince Fielder is a better example of how Sandoval is going to age than them?

Johnston
11 years ago
Reply to  ElJimador

Logic.

Cool Lester Smooth
11 years ago
Reply to  Johnston

…is not a word anyone should use to describe comparing Pablo Sandoval to two Hall of Fame outfielders with triple digit career steals.

Puckett was a positive defensive CF (according to TZ) when he was 28.

Gwynn stole 40 bases when he was 29.

Google a picture of either from 1988, when they were Sandoval’s age.

If anything, Puckett and Gwynn are examples of athletic players declining less quickly than fat sluggers.

ElJimador40
11 years ago
Reply to  Johnston

Okay, non HOF division: Terry Pendleton was a short, fat 3B who from his age 28-33 seasons amassed 17.9 WAR (just a hair under 3 per season) and an MVP award.

And I guess you’ve never seen Sandoval play if you think he’s just a fat slugger who isn’t athletic.

Cool Lester Smooth
11 years ago
Reply to  Johnston

I have seen Sandoval play. I LOVE watching him play. I just don’t believe his body is going to hold up, especially in the post-steroid era.

pft
11 years ago

Pablo’s decline has already started. OPS+ for first and last 3 years shows that.

With his weight the body will break down very soon. You can carry that weight in your 20’s, not your 30’s, plus the fat accelerates the testosterone decline every player experiences past 25.

6 years might make sense for a team with a DH option, but not a NL team.

tz
11 years ago
Reply to  pft

Good point about the testosterone decline. Not like something you can supplement if it declines while you’re still a MLB player.

Hank G.
11 years ago
Reply to  tz

Good point about the testosterone decline. Not like something you can supplement if it declines while you’re still a MLB player.

Why not? The testing looks for abnormally high levels of testosterone. It someone took only enough testosterone to get back to “normal” levels, that wouldn’t trigger any tests.

It might be against the rules, but medical records are usually privileged. Does MLB have the right to look at players’ private medical records?

Johnston
11 years ago

This guy is the next Ryan Howard. And that article read like one written at the time trying to justifyHoward getting a long-term contract.

ElJimador
11 years ago
Reply to  Johnston

Could you have picked a worse comp? Sandoval has about as much in common w/Ryan Howard as Melky Cabrera has to Chris Davis or Adam Dunn.

jim fetterolf
11 years ago

Fangraphs does have Panda’s “as R vs L” splits as .199 BA. Not sure Fenwick will favor him.